 So it is March 9th, 2016. We're at the Royal York Hotel in Toronto. I'm interviewing Patricia Dillon. My name is Eric Weidenhammer. So I guess we'll start with the basic questions. So could you tell us your name and age? I'm Patricia Dillon and I'm 63 years old. Where were you born? I was born here in Toronto. What did your parents do? My mother, well, I'm the oldest of five children. And basically, once she found out she was pregnant with me, that was the end of her career. And she was a stay-at-home mom and my dad was in sales. What did he sell? Oh, he's different things over the years, but he ended up with a company called Premium Forest Products. So it was Doors. I see. As a child, what did you do past the time? Well, I enjoyed swimming. I was very fortunate. My parents were into the cottage every summer for a month. And so I enjoyed swimming. One of the best memories I have as a child, there were many, many children who were on a street that was essentially a dead end. And to pass the time in the summer, we'd get together and we would organize a performance of singing, dancing, and plays. And we raised money for the Star Fresh Air Fund. So that was a lot of fun. It took up a lot of time in the summer. Other than that, during the year it was school. Did you have an early interest in the world of science? Yeah, well, early, high school. Certainly by high school, I had an interest in science. I was very fortunate. I lived in the east end of Toronto and I went to Malvern. And at the time I was in high school, there was still the opportunity to skip a grade in high school. And so a number of students had that opportunity between grade 9 and what would have been grade 10. We went to summer school. We had to study Latin, French, and mathematics. And I went right into grade 11 and so I was able to get more into the sciences earlier in terms of my teenage years. So where did you go to school? And what classes did you particularly like? Every time I went high school. Yeah. So I went to Malvern Collegiate and the sciences really were my focus. It was unfortunate that you had to make so many choices early in your high school career. So things like geography and history got dropped from my curriculum rather than so I could pursue chemistry and biology and physics. How did you come to study geology at the University of Toronto? Well, that's a funny story because back in the time that I started university, which was in 1970s, you had got a big book, a calendar, of course, descriptions and I knew I was going to take physics, chemistry, math, and biology or zoology as it was. But you had to have five courses and flipping through the calendar. I thought geology and I thought, well that sounds like an interesting complementary course to my other so I gave it a try. How did you find your education at the University of Toronto? Well, I wasn't as smart as I thought I was and in first year I didn't apply myself. I thought this was great fun and I didn't do that well but fortunately I passed on probation and geology was my highest mark and I took that as a sign that this is maybe a field I should stick with as I knuckle down and then after that and developing the focus I really, really enjoyed the geology, all the courses and I enjoyed the camaraderie of the smaller environment at U of T which is a huge school to be in a course like geology. We were able to develop deep friendships that have lasted for decades and decades. When did you join Tech? So, I was fortunate in 1972 to get my first job in the field working with Imperial Minerals and I did field work in Ontario and subsequently the next year I did field work in Nova Scotia and then when the year of my graduation Tech had acquired the Newfoundland Zinc Mine in Newfoundland and they were looking for geologists that had experience in carbonate geology and because I had worked in Nova Scotia around the Gays River deposit I had that background and so I was hired as I was graduating from U of T with my specialist geology degree and so I started as a summer student in 1974 and went to Newfoundland. Do you remember anything particular about your first day then? Well, not so much about my first day but my husband had had the interview after me for that summer job and at that time Matthew Black who was the exploration manager when I rather aggressively pointed out that my fiance was the next interviewee he said, do you think the two of you could work together and we were subsequently hired together as a field team and sent to Newfoundland and Ted was my field assistant so I remember that sort of early willingness to look at really quite innovative hiring practices and we were able to work together so that's a wonderful memory for me and off we went to Newfoundland. What did you first work on at Tech? Well, as a summer student it was at the Newfoundland Sink Mine so it was a field mapping project we were five teams of two and we had a very, very large concession to explore in and around the mine site looking to extensions of the deposits so it was great fun. What sort of equipment did you use at the time? Boots, hammer, repacks, bug repellent, compass of course we had air photos back then there's no GPS topographic maps so that was the main equipment and of course we had various testing materials for mineralization the standard basic field geological tools Can you describe what the company was like and the period that you joined? It was a very exciting company to work for very entrepreneurial it was active across the country Canada all over young group it was just amazing I was the first I don't know if I was the first female geologist ever hired by Tech but I was the only one at that time and I stayed working with Tech through the summers for a number of years I subsequently went back to school and did a Bachelor of Education but even as a teacher high school teacher I had the summers off and so I continued to work with Tech in the summers so I didn't actually go full time with Tech until 1979 Did you enjoy that field work being in the outdoors? Yes, that was the most exciting part of it to be outdoors mind you the days treaching through the swamps weren't always the most fun but the excitement of the hunt and then the discovery especially when you came across outcrops was mineralization and then you were waiting for the sample results and putting together the puzzle of the geology to understand the structures it was challenging it was interesting it was fun How has the company changed since you joined? Oh my goodness well my career spanned almost 40 years so there were tremendous changes including the shift of the head office from Toronto to Vancouver all of the different deposits and projects that were acquired and developed over the years just the merger with Kaminko many years later just the expansion into South America but the entrepreneurial spirit of the company never seemed to waver especially under the leadership of Dr. Keeville Sr and subsequently Dr. Keeville Jr so How did you become interested in education and advocacy? So as I pointed out I had a degree in in education with Patan also being in the mining business we decided very early on as a married couple to diversify our family skillset so that's why I went back to school but I only stayed teaching long enough to get my permanent teaching certificate so I always had an interest in education so in 1994 when Barry Simmons was a member of the board of directors at the PDAC he took over chair of the education committee and at that time he looked across the country for best practices in mineral education he identified a program that was being carried out of BC under the leadership of Maureen Gubkiewicz and the model for that education program was getting teachers to design resources that took advantage of curriculum opportunities and help teachers feel confident in delivering this subject matter because most teachers don't necessarily have a geological background or much knowledge about the minerals industry so that's how that all started so it came as a PDAC initiative that my boss was involved at the time and knowing that I had an educational background and a geological background it was a natural fit for me Can you tell us about that decision to go back and get your teaching degree was that unusual for people in industry at the time? No, because I really wasn't in industry at the time I had graduated in May of 1974 Ted and I got married in October we went to Europe for a honeymoon for five months and we went back to work for Tech in the Summer and at that time I had already decided to go to get at that time it's not true now it was one more year at school well a year at school was eight months September to April, I got another degree I got the opportunity to work professionally in a totally different sector it was a very conscious decision to diversify opportunity and skill sets and in fact a couple of times through my career when the industry went into great slumps and we were in periods of layoffs fortunately I never got caught up in those periods but I always felt I had my teaching as something in my back pocket it was also at a time where as a woman in the industry I felt that that was going to continue to help opportunities as a woman in the industry because there was a recognition that we can bring value it didn't always have to be the brawn but at the same time in education they were looking for more and more women role models in the fields of science and technology and engineering and mathematics and I had that background so I was pretty confident I would have had the opportunity to go back and be successful as a teacher Have you experienced a merger of two Canadian mining giants Tech and Kaminko in 2001 what was that experience like what was the merger like I was of course from the tech side of the merger I knew many of my colleagues in Kaminko they really changed the company quite a bit because it brought together the best of both worlds my feeling Kaminko had the trails melter so they had that sort of side of the business whereas we had been mine operators and explorationists it was a wonderful marriage and of course we had the interest in Kaminko from the 1986 sale of the shares from CN so there had already always been a bit of a relationship and awareness so when the actual merger took place always the integrations of systems and cultures can be a bit challenging but I think in that particular case it was a lot smoother to lead long association prior to the actual integration Have you traveled a great deal for your work? A great regret actually most of my travel with tech was in Canada other than the odd conference we used to have our exploration conferences in different locations around the world but I never had the opportunity to work in the United States or work in South America tech expand had considerable operations in those countries and I never got that opportunity I did do some traveling when I was president of the PDAC but in terms of comparison with many of my peers who worked in traveled international I had quite less experience in that and I think it was because of the nature of the way my job evolved as well I didn't actually stay in the field of exploration geology for many many years I moved into what was sort of considered at the time an administrative geologist so I worked with the legal side the financial side we had the digital and self light syndicates and so I was providing those kinds of services to those projects rather than continuing to be out in the field banging on the rocks which would have and of course when I became a mother I was in fact less interested in that kind of long term travel or postings mentioned the self light syndicates could you tell me about that arrangement so the digital and self light syndicates were consortiums of companies that were brought together to actually take advantage of propriety technology developed by a subsidiary at Tech Digim Ltd. at the time and so they were international syndicates the self light syndicate I represented was coming from Germany and Japan and eventually from Otokunpo and it used this geophysical technology to identify prospective areas in Canada conduct the airborne surveys and then follow-up programs for the anomalies and the Digim syndicate was the predecessor of the self light syndicate and it was responsible for discovering the Moncombe deposit so it was quite quite interesting at the time a lot of the way exploration was being structured through the undertaking identifying target areas undertaking the geophysical surveys and then doing the follow-up based on what you saw in the field what were the technologies involved airborne geophysics so starting out in the mining business in the late 70s you would have witnessed the recent history of the modern environmental movement how has the industry's relationship to the environmental movement changed over time well first of all we're very close to the environment by the nature of our work and I would argue that geologists were probably some of the first environmentalists they didn't want to leave their garbage or messes behind when going you know I mean just terrible so but I think the general the laws grew and changed and I think the industry were early adopters and happy to raise the attention to environmental stewardship and responsibility so from my own experience I know that there is the issue of orphaned and abandoned mines some of the issues are very very complex from the point of view of what has happened historically but I think now certainly in my experience and the organizations I work there's the highest attention to environmental stewardship so in particular interest to the history of Canadian military which has a long history of environmental controversy how has tech who has inherited this facility addressed some of these long standing issues well I think I think always the company has paid attention to the issues I think the company has demonstrated it's very very responsive in the case of spales being transparent and all of their activities to take responsibility to initiate cleanup to keep communities involved but you've got to remember this was a hundred year operation and just as safety rules and environment rules have changed over time so the company has adjusted in response as a matter of fact the trail smelter is using a portion of its facilities to look at the whole recycling opportunities right and I think it's providing a great service there and making investments to even improve the opportunity to recycle more metals particularly from the electronics industries so can you tell us about the industry's relationship to the Aboriginal community and how that has changed over time well as you know the Canadian MINDELS industry is the largest employer of Aboriginal people in Canada and we have more activities in close proximity to Aboriginal communities in fact tech was the leader and it's a relationship with respect to the communities in and around the red dog line and the nano organization so I mean tech I think has shown that it's always been very respectful and taking a leadership in that of course was in particularly Kaminko initially prior to the merger you also have the situation and you can look to Sudbury and Highland Valley where the Aboriginal community has not necessarily historically been incorporated and engaged in the operations as much as would happen now but those things are changing I know for a fact that the tech has reaching out around all its coal operations and Highland Valley in particular to the Indigenous community at Hemlow we worked with the Pick River and the Pick Moberg First Nations looking at ensuring that there are benefits flowing to the community and negotiating participation agreements so it's really really changed and with the change in the regulatory framework the UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous people the focus on free prior and informed consent companies realize now that although you have the support and the willingness of the community to welcome you on to their land and to develop the resources and partnership it's not going to happen and I would say tech was a leader in this particularly because of their experience at Red Dog in the early days before this topic even was on the minds of many Can you tell us about that the Red Dog mind and what you're referring to well in the case of the Red Dog mind the local Indigenous people own the land on which the deposit was discovered so right from the very beginning there were conversations and commitments with respect to local hiring local procurement training this was this partnership approach was established because the Indigenous community they owned the land the Alaska natives owned the land so it was very very clear whereas in other parts of Canada where when you're working on traditional territory and you have situations where traditional territories of a number of First Nations overlap it's a little bit more complex but it's that willingness to listen and to understand what are the priorities of the community and this sharing the shared value the sharing of benefits but identifying what are the values and what are considered benefits just because we think it's a benefit the local community is going to most likely have different ideas now tech is one of the last Canadian owned majors in mining and metallurgy especially outside of precious metals can you give us your opinion on how foreign ownership has affected geology and mining in Canada well affected it in the sense that first of all foreign ownership recognizes the value of investing in Canadian expertise, Canadian opportunities so I think it's a recognition of our excellence in mining and in mine management and mine leadership so for me that's a difficult question to address really maybe the president of both CIM and the PDAC in fact I think you're the only person who's been president of both institutions how do the two institutions compare and how do they interrelate well I was the only person who had been president of both organizations up until this week actually when Bob Schaefer has just taken over as president of the PDAC so there are two great national organizations with different mandates and focusing on really different segments of the industry whereas PDAC is very much an advocacy group on behalf of really the early stage prospectors and developers the CIM with its structure of technical societies and divisions focuses on you know ensuring that professionals within the organization are kept up to date with best practices latest developments and technologies PDAC does that too but it's in a different it's in a different space CIM doesn't doesn't advocate the way that for example the Mining Association of Canada does in the PDAC organizations both national in scope but with a different a different strategic priorities I think I would say can you tell us about the Mining Millennium conference that you co-chaired in 2000 well that was that was a wonderful experience the mining industry likes to see its resources deployed efficiently and the question always was well why can't the PDAC and the CIM get together because at that time the CIM conference would periodically rotate in Toronto would be held in May PDAC is always in Toronto and it's always in March so why to mark the millennium can't we see if we get together the challenges for both organizations their annual conference is a major fundraising activity to support their annual priorities so there was a lot of concern around if we bring it together can we just demonstrate that we're going to be able to generate the kind of revenues that both organizations need but there was a group of the willing to give it a try we got the authorization of both boards to give it a try but the way we structured it was it wasn't a full integration of two conferences we ended up structuring that sort of PDAC was the first few days of the week and CIM was sort of the second half of the week and then a number of the social events and the awards events were integrated in the middle of the week the challenge was it meant that if you wanted to be there for the whole time it made for a seven day conference and that was exhausting there were revenue implications for both organizations but we were glad that we tried and that we were able to demonstrate to our constituents that we could be successful with bringing everything together but it also did highlight the fact that they do have whereas they do overlap in a number of areas they also are quite separate in other areas but it was a wonderful event and I was glad we gave it a try you headed the Toronto branch of CIM can you tell us what sort of work goes on in the branches of CIM so the branches are the leadership in the branches of the local area so they know what the interests are of the professionals within that area so the Toronto branch would organize talks and events that would bring together the local mining community and we also had very much a mandate about reach to local students who are interested in the mining area and of course Toronto is a world center for mining so it was one of the largest branches and I was very honored to be the first woman chair. What are some of the messages that you're trying to pass on to young people through the Mining Matters Initiative? So the Mining Matters Initiative it has a number of pillars and our first mandate really was to focus on providing quality resources to teachers who are required to teach about rocks minerals and specifically earth processes and earth sciences okay we at the time the Mining Matters was initiated the goal was to provide information about the industry so that people could make informed decisions in the future and our original focus was the urban areas of Toronto and although of course over the last 22 years we've expanded across the country now the messaging is around the ideas that when we're in Aboriginal communities and working with Aboriginal youth the messages, the minerals industry provides opportunities and wide variety of opportunities right in your area but also globally it's a technologically advanced safe profession to work in but to advance within it staying in school is very very critical so that's some of the messaging now it's around career awareness and back when we started Mining Matters within educational systems you must remember that education is provincially mandated so one size doesn't fit all the opportunity to teach rocks, minerals and mining is going to vary in different grades and different regions of the country so we've had to adjust and adapt our resources depending on where we are in the kinds of communities we're going into but it was a number of years ago that educational authorities they need to do a better job in helping students become aware of career opportunities it's not just doctors, dentists nurses and teachers there's a whole bunch of other options out there so we've expanded into that career awareness as well so we have a lot of fun with them because we build off young people's natural interest in the sparkly bits and pebbles and rocks their inherent curiosity so How and when did that project start? Well we started in 1994 and we produced and tested our first resources in 94 and we became a charitable organization in 97 and I've been very fortunate as I mentioned Barry Simmons who started it under the auspices of the PDAC education committee he was a tech employee at the time and tech has been a tremendous supporter of the initiative through not only the time Barry and I spent into it throughout our day to day but also financially tech made its offices available for kit production it helped us in providing resources for the kits and as have many many other companies and we're so proud of the fact that we now can attract funding from foundations, individuals corporations, governments and through PDAC membership we get donations from many of their members around the globe to support the advancement of minerals education generally How has your work with the PDAC changed over time? Well so with PDAC I started initially through the committee structure so I was working on committees I worked on a number of committees I ended up chairing the communications committee for a while and then when I was approached to ask if I would allow my name to be considered for president I didn't shy away from that I didn't seek it out but when I was asked to give it a shot I had the support of tech to go forward with that and so then I moved into the role of president and now as past president we're I'm sort of in an emeritus role in as much that I can represent past presidents on like I'm on the governments and nominating committee and of course I continue to have money matters so it's run the whole gambit but still very much involved. Tell us about your role in the minerals and metals industry sector study steering committee. So there is a meeting in Toronto that was being convened at that time by an organization called Mitac which was the mining industry training and adjustment council and they were looking to see how they could evolve to meet the needs better of industry so that meeting included representatives of unions, associations and corporations and it was being held here in Toronto at an apartment airport hotel so because I've been involved with CIM because I've been involved with BDAC and because I also was employed by TAC I got asked to go to that meeting and wear all those different hats so just what does this group want to do what's going on and then to report back to the various organizations so at that time they were looking for people to chair to chair a study the study that you refer to and I got approached again I'm I don't know if you can tell but I'm one of those people that when invited to speak or offer an opinion I don't sort of shy away from it and so they asked me if I would be involved representing industry because of the many hats I could wear as co-chair of that committee and then my other co-chair at that time represented the educational institutions and then we were working with this group and that was the seminal study that first started really identifying and putting numbers around what the HR challenges were going to be in the mining industry going forward and then subsequently as a result of that study the organization involved into the mining industry Human Resources Sector Council and I'm currently past chair of that organization and we're doing a tremendous amount of work in gender equity outreach to Aboriginal communities through our Mining Essentials program but we provide the labor market intelligence for the mining industry across this country on what are the needs and where are they going to come from and where are there opportunities to meet the human resources needs in the industry and we're doing work. And you're now teaching at a business school, is that right? Yes, about five years ago Richard Ross who used to be the CEO of INMAT he had retired at the time he was approached by CIM to consider developing a leadership educational program after CIM had assessed there really wasn't anything currently in the academic environment that supported developing leaders for the mining industry so he started developing the global mining management program and after the first year he approached me and it come to light that I was also retired at that time and I had a background education broad experience in the mining industry and so we started developing more of the courses and there are currently five courses in the program one at the first year level of MBA which is like a mining 101 which helps students because not all the students come from mining backgrounds so that's sort of their mining 101 orientation to the industry and then in second year courses there's value creation in the mining industry there's financial fundamentals in the mining industry I teach a course called Towards Sustainable Mining and the fourth course is Managing Mining Companies so I've I'm in the middle of my fourth year teaching that course but teaching is a bit of a misnomer here because we bring industry subject experts a little bit more of the administrator organizer identify the key subject matter experts and last night as a matter of fact at our class we were exposing the students to indigenous perspectives on the mining industry in Canada and we brought in three indigenous leaders from First Nations and the students had the opportunity to explore the topic of free prior informed consent and the focus of IBAs the concerns in First Nations community with respect to mineral development so it's very very exciting Have you ever worked in a particularly dysfunctional job or organization? Actually no it's very interesting because yeah no the answers no I mean I've worked in organizations or I've worked with groups or I've worked with committees and organizations that have been engaging tasks and had evolving demands and expectations but dysfunctional no and I think sometimes that it's how you approach people it's how you engage people it's how you bring people around having a common goal now we've had some difficult situations to deal with and some really odd situations in a higher organization being dysfunctional no What are some of the challenges that you face? The challenges while being so passionate about the mining industry not having enough time in the day to maybe be involved with as many things as you'd like to I think sometimes making a misstep in identifying somebody to maybe work on a particular project or on a committee who doesn't maybe have the same kind of commitment or passion or necessarily background so I think that that sometimes can be a challenge What was the most difficult project that you've worked on? Difficult project I'd have to say fundraising is difficult generally and it's hard when you run a charitable organization and for example we're in a downturn right now in our industry and I believe in the value of what we're doing for example at mining matters and it's hard sometimes to go out there and have people say just really I can't support you right now or I don't doesn't happen often but some people shift their priorities and the kinds of things they want to support which is sometimes hard to hear so What's your fondest memory that relates to your work? Oh Wow Fondest memory I think when I had the support of tech senior management to represent the organization and international for at the time of the global mining initiative I had I had the opportunity to go to London and represent the company and knowing that somebody had that much faith and support in you the other time in which I felt very very honored was after the the difficult time that tech went through through the downturn and we went through a layoff we laid off of 13% of our employee and contractor base at that time and then very quickly through Don Lindsay's 13 point plan the company was back on track the debt issues had been resolved they attracted the Chinese investment and everything was great and the mines ministers wanted to hear the story how did it happen that that tech in such a short period of time with terrific senior management you know what was the sequence of events that led to us being in that very very difficult situation and I got selected to be the person to go the mines ministers to tell that story that was an incredible opportunity again because of the support and the faith that the senior management had in my ability to be effective in that environment and to deliver the story What sorts of social activities have you been involved with at work or after work with co-workers at work or after work with co-workers well at Mining Matters we organize a hockey tournament every year I can remember back in the day when tech rented the Maple Leaf Gardens to have the tech versus prospectors golf a hockey tournament skating at Maple Leaf Gardens with Dr. Kievel I remember that clearly and when I was in Vancouver tech would organize events where we'd go up Grouse Mountain to ski or snowshoe I think one of the really exciting times was when tech produced all the metal for the 2010 Olympic medals and we brought in our excellence award winners from around the country and then we got to mix and match from all over the world to go and witness Olympic events proudly aware of the fact that our mantle from our minds all over the world was in those beautiful Olympic medals so that was really really exciting In your line of work as geology are there any particular social problems that you witnessed over time drug abuse, infidelity these sorts of things I didn't see it but a question that often comes up as a woman in the mining industry through the 70s and 80s was difficulty with with respect to you know gender equality at the time I was first hired with tech we had a mine manager at our LaMac mine which was underground gold mine and he was very much old school and at that time even though I was an employee of tech I would not have been allowed to go underground because I was a woman but that mine manager moved on and I got underground at LaMac so you know I am aware of the fact that a number of women had difficulties in the industry in terms of the difficult social issues again my infield career was very early on before for example we didn't work as closely at that time with our indigenous neighbors and you do hear of some of the difficulties in those communities here at the convention of course you know a couple of times you you would maybe indulge a little bit too much in alcohol but I was never approached ever about drugs or anything like that maybe because people could tell I wouldn't be interested in anyway and just go running the other way How present or absent have other women been in your workplace over time and has that changed? Oh yes that's changed tremendously and I'm a great advocate for women as you know from my background I've been the first woman or the second woman in a number of situations but once I get in there I'm a great advocate for the skills and the talents of women and the men so for example when I was chair of the CIM Toronto branch or before I became even chair of the Toronto branch there was one other woman involved at that time Elizabeth Gardner who worked with the Ontario Mining Association but through the course of my involvement in tenure I got a lot more women involved and so it has changed far from ideal but women I think are being more supportive of women and generally I think with the new generation of young men coming up who got more experience dealing with women as equals through their educational environment I think that's happening I think the fathers of daughters are a lot more sensitive to supporting their daughters in their careers and achievements in more male dominated roles but we've still got a long way to go but we've all got a role to play and times are changing and some of the old boys they're fading into the woodwork but I've always believed and I know a number of my colleagues wouldn't necessarily agree I always believed in my heart of hearts that if you got in and you did a good job and you maybe weren't too aggressive I mean you were present you were forceful, you sit at the table you don't sit back I do believe that men and other women will recognize our abilities and our willingness and capability to contribute effectively How was the field of geology in general doing in Canada compared to when you started? Well it's right back where I started the year I graduated there were so few jobs we're now in a situation where there are so few jobs it's the frequency and you can count on the cycles and we're in a down cycle and it's tough right now I've got students at the Shoe of School of Business and they're saying where are we going to get a job hey we're at the bottom of the down cycle build your networks learn about the industry get connected stay involved in things and it's going to turn around so it was very difficult in 72 when I was a second year student only three of us in my class and that was the class of engineers and the class of geologists got summer jobs so it was unfortunately the commodity cycles Who's been your greatest mentor or who has had the greatest impact on your career? The man who hired me at Tech, Matthew Blacka and at the time his boss John May they made sure that I had opportunities always to participate they always introduced me they always showed that they had confidence in my perspective even though I was a young and didn't have a lot of experience I remember very well being in a Sulfide Syndicate meeting as it was and the meeting was all over and we were caucusing after and I said to John at the time I said I don't understand and I laid out my question and he looked at me and he says Pat he says I will guarantee you if there was something you didn't understand in that meeting probably 50% of the other people in the meeting didn't understand it as well please do not ever hesitate to ask the question feel free and as a result I've never been afraid of asking a question that I would be ridiculed and so that support that confidence in putting me in situations believing in my ability letting me stumble I can be I remember a number of times when I was told that perhaps I had strayed a little bit this way or the other but it was always done in a constructive way and so I would say Matthew Black and I worked with him for many many many years at tech and so I had no women mentors so and I think that's going to be true for most women in this industry for a while men are going to be very very important mentors we need women as role models it's true but most of the mentoring is going to come from them what are the most important lessons that you've learned in life when opportunity knocks even if you're feeling unsure put your say yes I can remember when I was asked if I would consider running to be president of the PBAC when I was approached to be president of the CIM when I was asked if I would be an ambassador for keep mining in Canada when I was approached and asked to be a co-chair of a committee I always thought well you know this opportunity is coming my way for a reason and don't run the other way trust in the future even when it's uncertain even when you maybe can't see how things are going to play out have confidence in your ability and have confidence in the people around you who care and want to see you succeed most people want to see people succeed there are fewer out there that want to whack you down but generally that's not the case what are you proudest of after my children and my relationship with my husband so many things but I'd have to say mining matters the fact that it's attracted support from so many individuals so many corporations nationally over so many years it's been sustained over so many years I would have to say that's something that I'm very very proud of us as an accomplishment the chance to have had my entire career with a company such as tech I mean that's been incredible and the opportunities I also do this a comment to the University of Toronto at the time Pierre LaSanne made his transformative gift to reestablish mining engineering and that went right to Dr. Keevel to say yes we'd like Pat to be involved in this project it was a bit of a start-up not in terms of like a corporate start-up but still an educational program start-up and for two years tech supported me while I was not precedent tech but actually had an educational institution I mean that was an amazing opportunity the fact that after we went through a terrible downturn and I came off that's a comment I continued to be supported in my role here in Toronto the fact that I was invited at the time they were considering putting together the transition team had the INCO acquisition been successful I mean I was tremendously honored by that the fact that in the latter stage of my career I had the opportunity to move to the head office and take on new roles the support I had to work with the Mining Association of Canada through the early development and growth of the towards sustainable mining initiative which is now a national incredible program that is driving performance improvements in our industry so much really and your biggest contribution to the field of mining and geology I don't know I don't know I hope I hope there's been a contribution I hope that a number of young people that I've interacted with over the year have seen and realized opportunity and success in the industry because of something I said or encouragement I provided when I was President of CIM I was very much student focused so I hoped that that's what the contribution has been anything else you'd like to add it's a great industry a wonderful run I'm very pleased even as a retiree that I've been able to stay involved through the Canadian Mining Hall of Fame I love the fact that the industry through the PD's the Sue the CIM and through the Hall of Fame and the Mining Association of Canada we recognize excellence in our industry and we use that as a way to tell our story more broadly to Canadians and internationally about how the industry has evolved and grows and will continue to do so I love the collaboration I see within the industry on issues that are of critical importance to performance particularly safety performance and I I really am impressed with all the people I've met in my career it's a small family well thank you for your time thank you