 This is Stink Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Still, and even more every day. And to my left is Sharon Moriwaki. She's a clean energy person from the beginning of time. Aloha. Aloha. Good to be here. Co-chair and co-chair of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum and co-host of this show. Additionally for many many years. And we've had such a great year this year. And we're ending it with Rocky. Oh. He's the energy program director for the new brand new charter created climate change sustainability and resiliency. Office. Office of the city and county of Honolulu. And he is its very first energy program manager. And the other people there are notable are the executive director, Josh Stanbro. And the deputy director, Justin Gruenstein, who we know from back when. He was on the forum. In the city. Before you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, welcome. Welcome to the show and welcome to the office, so to say. Thank you very much. It feels great to be here. Yeah. It's a really exciting time for the city and county to be embarking on this new initiative. Relatively new initiative. Lots been going on, as we know in Hawaii and in the state. But this is a new charter mandated office with the city and county. Yeah. Tell us about what you what your office is and how energy, some energy manager plays a role and who all is in the office and what your expectations are. That's a multiple compound. Oh, I know. I know. I was just so excited. So I want to know everything there is to know. Take it apart in any way you want. Any way you want. So the office was created in the November election. It was a charter mandate charter. Amendment number seven. And it created the office of climate change, sustainability and resiliency for the city and county of Honolulu. It won by a 16 point margin. We have a good electoral win behind our sales. People spoke. Yeah. Yeah. And at the same time that that happened. We had a been applying for and we won a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation to create a resiliency plan and fund a chief resiliency officer. So we hot the city hire Josh D'Ambro as our first chief resiliency officer. And he is also the executive director of the office of climate change, sustainability and resiliency. And you mentioned just in the hundred sustainable cities. Is that what it is? It's part of the 100 Resilience Cities grant. And we were one of the final cities to get in. So it's a really big thing for Honolulu. Yeah. So we're going to be working with our peers in places like New York and Paris and Medellin, Colombia and around the world. These big metropolises that are dealing with these challenges of climate change resiliency in myriad very complex ways. And we'll bring our own Honolulu specific approach to that. That's exciting. Wow. Yeah. So I give us a short bio, would you? So I'm originally from New Jersey. I moved here seven years ago now with my wife. My wife is from here, born here. And she dragged me back here kicking and screaming. But when I arrived here, prior to arriving here, I had been working in New York as an equity analyst. And I was looking a lot at energy companies. And when I looked at Hawaii and something that I could do in Hawaii, I noticed that the solar industry was booming. So I first started, I partnered up with some acquaintances of my wife. And we were wholesaling solar panels into the Hawaii market. They were Chinese solar panels. And what happened was there was a paraff dispute, an anti-dumping paraff was imposed on them. So I went looking for a job and I started working for the state. And with the state, I worked for the State Energy Office. I was an energy analyst for them. And then I ended up over at the Public Utilities Commission as an economist. Oh, wow. What a nice roadway to sustainability. Yeah. So maybe you can help me with a couple of conceptual things. First is, I think we know what sustainability is. I think among other things, it's Sharon's middle name. But what is resiliency? What is that? And how does it differ from sustainability? Well, the Rockefeller Foundation has been doing a lot of work on resiliency. And that's where our grant comes from, to create a resiliency strategy. And they see resilience as the ability to withstand a shock or a stress and come back even stronger after it. So for instance, a stress is sort of a long-term chronic problem, like income inequality or infrastructure, dilapidation or these kinds of things. A shock is a tsunami or an earthquake or a financial crisis or something like that. Something unexpected. Unexpected, right? And so resiliency is the ability to deal with both of those things and come back even stronger. So for instance, as we saw in Puerto Rico recently, they were hit by Hurricane Maria. But really for a long time before that, Puerto Rico had been going through a chronic decline in sort of economic growth. They couldn't pay their bills. They couldn't pay their bills. And then the utility there was having issues. So their grid was really fragile. And so when Irma hit, the grid is still not fully up, as I know it. So a resilience strategy would be a strategy that would build that grid back even better than it was this time and really continue to provide for the people of Puerto Rico. So we're looking at how we can build resilience here in Honolulu and learn from folks around the world. How do you do that? Well, right now the process is for the first quarter, we have a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation. And this first quarter, what we're listening to the people were going around and taking a survey and presenting our point of view. And finding out from folks out there where they see as our chief stresses and vulnerabilities. And from there, we're going to move on and create a strategy to do a climate adaptation and action plan, actually what they call it, a cap. And that will have a strategy for how we become more resilient. So let's make a case study. Okay. Case study. I'll let me just one more definition. One more definition. So adaptation, we always keep on hearing the term adaptation and mitigation and that's all part of the mix. So how as you go around listening and putting together the adaptation plan, is that mitigation come in or where is mitigation in that? Is it stopping it or is it, you know, what part of that equation? It kind of goes in cycles, right? I think for a long time in Hawaii, we've been really focused on mitigation. Mitigation is about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, reducing those. Whereas adaptation is dealing with what you know is going to come. So it's more preparatory. Yeah, it's more like preventive and preparatory. Whereas mitigation is about like focusing on really on getting greenhouse gas emissions and combating climate change. Okay. So if I were just an observer or maybe a member of the electorate and I voted for this amendment. I would be most concerned about the climate change part because I see that as a big risk. I think most people do, they believe in climate change as opposed to the administration of Washington. And they think that it's coming, whatever it is, and that something should be done about it to protect our society and so forth. So I would structure a case study on the basis of the greatest risk that I see. I mean, well, likely to happen bad weather. Really, really bad extremely weather. Eniki kind of weather, really sweep our island clean. Which in my view is every day, we have a nice sunshine day is one day closer to that. Yesterday was raining really badly. That wasn't an Eniki, but maybe that was a reminder. Hey. Okay, so we're going to get extreme weather in my view. And so we have the National Disaster Preparedness Training Center. You must know about them right across the street. They come on the show every now and then. So the question is, you know, how do you interface with that kind of risk, shock risk? Because you know it's coming. But how can you build that in? And by the way, the people out there that you're going to talk with and ask their opinions about, I didn't know anything about that. Sorry. So how are you going to find out what the real weather risks are and how you get resilient about it, how you mitigate, and how you save our lives when this happens. Because life will be in jeopardy when this weather hits. I'm relieved to tell you that we've thought of this. We actually have appointed a, I think they've been nominated in their waiting approval, a climate change commission made up of scientists who are going to, here in Hawaii, such as Chip Fletcher, McKenna Kaufman, and others who have been nominated on this commission, to be on this commission, and they're going to inform us with the best science. And that was actually explicitly written into the charter. It was to inform decision makers and the electorate on what is the science tell you and how do you create policies based on the best science that we know. That's great. Because usually the academic stays in academia and the people out here do our thing and it doesn't connect. So if you can have the both working together and advising, that's wonderful. Right. Okay, so Fletcher et al, they're going to tell you we're going to have bad weather. And it's going to innovate Waikiki, the engine of our economy. It's going to, you know, affect our systems or our public systems, many of which are controlled by the city actually, water, sewage, and so forth. It's going to do terrible things to our roadways and our homes, electrical systems. Terrible things. Okay. So now you know this. I mean, it doesn't take a lot of scientists to figure this out. I could figure this out. And, you know, actually an academic like Sharon, Sharon is an academic. She could tell you too. So what do you do then? So we're starting the project. We're building plans to deal with this right now. And, you know, obviously it's the challenge of our time. And, you know, it's great to be part of the solution going forward. And, you know, that's why, you know, Mary Caldwell is so great to have Mary Caldwell behind us all the way in creating this office and all of the energy that he puts into it and the team that he's put together across the government. I mean, we're motivated. We recognize this problem. In Hawaii, back in June, Mary Caldwell along with Governor E. Gay and the three other Hawaii mayors committed to stay into the Paris Climate Accord even though the federal government had dropped out. So we understand the risks here and the potential costs and we're taking it on. And we're so vulnerable that we're really happy that this has come together. To go down the path of the case study. And now we find that we've got to do things. We identify these risky shock risks. And we look at it from a municipal point of view. We're going to, you know, reinforce things. We're going to develop systems, chain telephone things, communications things. You're going to be able to marshal forces and resources to deal with it. Okay. It's a plan. I get a rash with any plan because I see the shelf, the plan and the dust. I see it all together. We've had this conversation. So what happens with the plan? Are you going to go out there and talk to people in the street? What's going to happen? Well, you know, luckily we have a lot of communication with our federal partners at DOD, our state partners in this. There's a lot of communication going on. The key is to stay in communication with how to deal with these things. We have at least yearly, you know, you know, exercises where we work with them. And I apologize that I don't know all the specifics of this stuff. You know, so my colleagues do, you know, we have a control center, you know, right? You know, for the city that deals with these things and has a whole plan in place. And, you know, I can assure you that we are thinking about this going forward. I mean, there's some really good ideas about how to create sort of resilience hubs. It's one sort of idea that we've heard from other jurisdictions where there are areas that you're positive you have, you know, the shelter and maybe some, you know, distributed generation to, you know, be able to, you know, fire up someone's cell phones, you know, for communication. You notice from Puerto Rico, people were driving miles and expending valuable, you know, fuel of petroleum to get to a place where they could get cell phone service to communicate to their loved ones. So these kinds of things that we couldn't have foreseen about resilience are becoming more important. So it's really about, you know, having that holistic plan and saying in communication with all of the parties that are going to be able to help people in those situations. So once this plan is formulated, is that it goes to city consular, what is the process so that once it's in place, we all know this is what we follow. Because sometimes plans, as Jay said, sits on the shelf. It's really nice in the process. I apologize, this isn't, that isn't my area of expertise. I promise I'll look, I will look into it and have, and get that stuff to you. I do know that, you know, my, you know, the deputy, our deputy director, Justin Groenstein, was very involved in these plans. So he is much more important on that than I. Okay, we're going to take a short break. It's Rocky Mold, Sharon Moriwaki. And when we come back, the magic word is going to be desiccation. A what? Rocky knows what I'm talking about. Okay, okay, you are doing some practice. I know what you're talking about. Oh, great. Great. And I could learn what desiccation is. I'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. I'm Tim Apocha, host for Moving Hawaii Forward, a show dedicated to transportation issues and traffic. We identify those areas where we do have problems in the state, but also the show is dedicated to trying to find solutions, not just detail our problems. So join me every other Tuesday on Moving Hawaii Forward. I'm Tim Apocha. He can show this picture. We're back. We're live. We're here with Rocky Mold of the city. Climate change, sustainability, and resiliency office. And although she may not realize that she's on the air, we're here with Sharon Moriwaki, too, co-host in this program and co-chair of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum, referred to by its beloved members as HEPF. Yeah. Okay. Where were we now? Okay. Rocky's going to tell us what desecration is. No, not desecration. What was it? I thought it was desiccation. Oh, desiccation. Okay. What does it mean? You know, it just, the word popped into my brain, and I know now where I first met you. Right. So liquid, so we first met, I was part of a project that put a solar-powered desiccant on top of the Whole Foods in Kailua. What a desiccant does is it sucks humidity out of the air to dry the air. And the premise behind this project was that by drying air and putting it through the HVAC system on top of the Whole Foods, you were lowering the cost for air conditioning and for refrigeration. So all of those loads would go down and you would save energy for 30%. So the moisture and the water, what does that do? So in order to cool the air, moisture is what's called latent heat. There's sensible heat and latent heat. And in order to cool the air, you have to get rid of that latent heat first. And so to get rid of that latent heat, it becomes easier to do that if you have pre-treating of that air. And this solar-powered array was pre-treating the air. So thank you for remembering that. I remember the day I met you, how impressed I was at a Wall Street stock analyst, could come and learn technology and do technology and do a project and that's sophistication. It's very sophisticated. And it strikes me to ask you this. So in this plan, there's got to be all kinds of technologies that you can and should implement in order to save us when what was it, the shock things happened. You'd be very well qualified to deal with those technologies. So as the energy program manager, part of my plan, my role is to, I have to say there are, each department within the city has some really great folks that are in control of the budgets and the projects that are looking at reducing our energy use. And part of our, one of them our mandate is to green and clean and make more efficient all of our energy operations and to lead by example with the city. So we're actually looking at funding an energy audit and taking a look at all of our facilities and fleets to see how we can reduce energy use, reduce greenhouse gas emissions to our mandate. As you may remember back on December 12th, the mayor Caldwell along with the three other mayors announced a transportation goal, to go 100% public and private ground transportation to renewable by 2045. But before that, we're going to try to get our entire city fleet by 2035 to 100% renewable fuels. Very good goal. Cheer up, the tax reform act just signed by your president does not terminate the tax credit, federal tax credit on electric vehicles. So at least a couple years more to go on that. But you know this leads me to the next question that Sharon will undoubtedly ask you. I feel it strongly. So we have the state. The state in this state has enormous power. I mean more than other states. This is a state that imbues its government with a lot of power. And we have the counties. And the counties only deal with their islands. But now it appears at least in the energy environment, in the energy world, the counties are doing a lot. And more interesting yet is that the counties are actually talking to each other at this conference you had just a few weeks ago. Which I mean I think that's really sort of historic in terms of the sharing of power and responsibility within the state of Hawaii. The counties are talking to each other, developing plans. They're not stopping. They're sailing ahead. They're making deals with the Paris Accord all by themselves. You know, you don't need any state authority to do that. Just do it. And so this is actually inspiring. But how does that work? Don't you have a sort of preemption on the state level where they're supposed to do it and you're doing it anyway? Well the first thing we can do is lead by example. And what I was talking about before, looking at our own facilities and fleets and bringing down our energy use in our own house. I mean that's something that we can do clearly. City facilities. The city facilities, city fleets. And then you know in terms of you know whoying up with the other counties, one thing that we're doing that's really exciting is a data collaborative. So I'm working with my counterparts over at the counties to really like create a story about the data that we're going to gather and what kind of metrics we're going to put around our own counties and our own city's data use. So we're really going to start collaborating around that. And it's not just with the other counterparts at the counties but we're going to be reaching out to stakeholders across the Hawaii ecosystem to build this data collaborative going forward. Well that's great because you've got that dashboard that you worked on, right? Yeah, your dashboard. So that's going to be just sort of the foundation that you can add on more. There's really like the idea behind having all this data together and then visualizing it and presenting it in an actionable way is that to get everyone on the same page, to get everyone understanding the same problems that we face and that really is the first step to going forward and solving those problems. And then going forward, you know, we're going to be looking at, you know, our transportation mandate, obviously, opportunities for renewable generation and, you know, demonstration projects on city properties and facilities, these kinds of things we'll be looking at. Exciting, very exciting. It's exciting but it's also inspiring. It is. And it's a good change and it's a change where more people in more governmental agencies in the state are thinking about this thing and thinking about it in a larger sense. You're not just limiting yourself to energy technology, you're seeing how that works in connection with sustainability and resiliency, which we really have to think about. But even better than that, you're reaching out to other counties and so, you know, there's a collaborative element here that did not exist before you started doing this. And so I commend you and the other counties, all the other commissions, we've talked to them and we know, we've seen it and we think this is a really, I do anyway, a really good direction for you to go in, for us to go in. And I think this means that Hawaii has its own special kind of resiliency, don't you think, around sustainability and energy and the future protect ourselves. And it's not only physical, but it's really the people. I mean, it's really the... everybody working together and seeing a common mission, you know. One of the questions we ask in our survey about resiliency is, what are you most proud about in Honolulu? And it's Aloha Spirit and Hokulea. And so these are those... So a big element of resiliency is this connectedness and, you know, healing of Ohana that we have here. And what you folks are doing is taking energy, which people say, oh, turn the lights on and off and it's going to be broader and more foundational driver for us. And we didn't see that connection before. Because really, it's not just, you know, turning on the lights and generating that. That's super important, don't get me wrong. But it's also how you plan for the future and the land use planning that you have for the future, how you connect, you know, transitory development and rail to this new spine that we're going to be building. And it's this holistic vision that we've seen this vision. Mayor Caldwell has been very strong on this and we're really just, you know, here to start putting the pieces in place to achieve that. To start actually acting on it. Yeah. So we're here at the very tip around the end of 2017 How sad is that? But maybe it's very hopeful. It's hopeful for 2018. Yeah, well, so, you know, what about 2018? I think you're going to put the plan together. I guess that's going to happen within 2018, Rocky? Yes. And so what else is there beside that? Are there more meetings scheduled among the counties? Can you give us a pre-see about what's going to happen next year? Right, so one of the big things coming up is we have the Maui Energy Conference. I'll be at the Maui Energy Conference. I'm sure my counterparts will be there as well. That's going to be, I hope you guys will be there. And then there's Verge coming up. And I know we're working on having some events around. It's good because everybody goes to these. So there are more meetings that are going to be taking place. And, you know, a lot of it just going to be focusing on, you know, getting to brass tacks of putting the plan together and starting to implement some of these ideas that we've had. So, yeah, I think 2018 is going to be a lot of setting the foundation for things to come in the next couple years. Yeah, it's really about planning right now and putting together that resiliency plan. And we're going to hear about the, you know, in our energy briefing in January. January 10th. Because I think Josh is going to speak and all the counties are going to speak on what they're doing. We like the counties. But here's one thing. That's in the legislative auditorium there in the legislature. And what strikes me, I have this vision of you or others from your office coming down to the legislature and educating the committees and the chairs and the legislative officials that are involved in energy and environment and all that about what you're doing. You could probably teach them a thing or two. You could probably show them things because you're looking at a very broad sustainability, you know, resiliency model. But also, they're on the ground too. They can see the actual impact on people. Right. Your grassroots. So I hope, I mean, I see and I hope that you will be there in those committee hearings telling you about the product of your efforts so they have the benefit of this in shaping whatever policies are coming across their desk. Well, thank you, Jerry. I appreciate that. And obviously we're here to help in any way we can to you know, put forth our common goals and our common agenda. It's wonderful. Sharon, you know we're out of time. Yes, I know. It's up to you now. So arise and close. Okay, this has been a wonderful conversation and I really appreciate Rocky coming down here for our last program of the year and telling us not only about desiccation, but also the larger picture from desiccation to sustainability and resilience and we're really looking forward to the plans that you're coming up with and more importantly how it's going to guide us as we work towards sustainability, resilience and a better Hawaii. Thank you. Thank you, Rocky. Thank you. Thank you, Jerry. Aloha. Happy New Year everybody. Happy New Year.