 Welcome everyone. This is Una Daly from the Community College Consortium for OER and welcome to our last Open Education Week webinar on Mathematics and we have Nikki Stubbs here with us from the Technical College System of Georgia. She's the EdTech Coordinator there and she's also one of the VPs on our Executive Council and she will be our facilitator today and introduce you to the two math faculty who are going to talk to us today about their OER adoptions. Okay Nikki. Hi and welcome everybody. So today we have two professors. One is Dr. Larry Green who is a math professor with Lake Tahoe Community College of California. He's also a ZTC degree grant manager and we also have Jodi Cotton-Consumer, Dr. Jodi Cotton-Consumer who is also a math professor out of Westchester Community College, the SUNY System of New York. And Jodi, I just want to confirm real quick that your audio is okay as we move forward. I can hear you. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Wonderful. Welcome. So today what we're going to do is have kind of a faculty Q&A dialogue and so as we're walking through this we're going to ask the faculty a few questions and you both just feel free to chime in. We may go a little out of order depending on how the conversation goes and if anyone has questions as we are going along if you will please pop those in the chat in the chat message and we will try to answer them in the order that we get them and if it's relevant at the moment to what we're on topic for. If not we'll try to hold everything till the end and try to get to your questions then. So Jodi and Larry we're going to go ahead and start and so this first part is really just some guiding questions to tell us about your OER experience. So these are the four questions kind of that we have in the beginning and I'm going to read them out for those of you who may be calling in who may be listening and maybe not be able to see your screen. So the first question is to please tell us how long you've been teaching and what courses you teach and anything we should know specifically about students at your college. So Larry do you want to head that one off? Sure sure I'll talk about it. So I've been teaching since the beginning of time about I guess over 30 years just a little more than 30 years 32 years I think so I've always taught. I teach at a community college so I teach all of our community college courses but lately I've been doing a lot of elementary statistics and a lot of the calculus series and the differential equations in the linear algebra class. I will teach the basic skills classes but mostly I do statistics and the calculus through linear algebra. Our college is pretty unique I think and in fact I'm going to show you. Larry if at any time you need to share your screen also Jody if you have anything that you want us to visually see just let me know and I'll show you if you could see it was white. We're Tahoe and we have 10 feet of snow right now and that's the way it is we get blizzards keep students out. There's a lot of stuff that has to be done online because students can't always get here. My vehicle to work is very unique. It's this guy. Hold on I'm going to stop sharing so we can see yours. So I see today I think I'm the only one in the country that does that probably maybe not and but so we're different. We're low income though because there's no good industry here other than tourism which doesn't pay a lot so our students are low income challenged in a big way in terms of financial but it's beautiful up here. Awesome thank you so Jody I'm going to reshare the questions real quick. There you go and so Jody if you want to catch question one for us is it introduction. Sure I've been teaching for I actually was counting this back a couple days ago 30 years I can't believe it. I've been teaching at the community college level since 1998 when I got my master's degree and for all but four of those years I've been at Westchester community college in the Halla New York which is about 20 miles north of New York City. I usually teach right now my load for the last seven eight years has been calc one two three in differential equations. Students at our college oh my gosh we have from the richest of the rich to the poorest of the poor in Westchester we have you know up in Bedford in Bedford Hills we've got the David Letterman and the all of that and then we've got clear down you know into the Bronx and some people that even take the bus up from the city to Westchester so very diverse ethnicity and for the richest to the poorest. Barbara I'm going to let you Barbara I'm sorry Jody I'm going to let you lead into the second question so how are you first introduced to OER and what motivated you to use it? Barbara I first heard about OER at Amatic the American Mathematical Association of Two-Year Colleges Yearly Conference. It's been probably three or four years ago now and my husband and I were looking at one of the publisher's booths and he's not a mathematician he's a quality control manager for general dynamics but he always goes to me he loves math and always talking about it with me but he tapped on my shoulder and he says hey Joe there's a differential equations textbook over here that's free and free what is this so I went over to look at it and it was the trench differential equations book and I thought I have to do this I have to help students out with the ridiculous cost of these textbooks because I know there were many times that students didn't have a textbook they would go to the library and hope nobody had checked that one out or they would go to the tutorial but then the tutorials only open a few days a week excuse me at night anyway and only certain days during the week and so a colleague and I decided that we would pilot the open stacks calculus textbooks and at the end of that first semester oh gosh this always gets me emotional I surveyed my students because one of our deans had asked me to give the keynote to a SUNY OER event here on our campus and I asked them what they liked about the the open stacks textbook what they didn't like and what I got back has motivated me and always will motivate me motivate me to continue to them it was just a textbook they want the homework problems to do some students read the textbook most don't even when you get you know upper calculus level and differential equations level but the one that hit me the most is that he said professor many of the times he said every semester it's the choice between a textbook and a bus ticket and he says I'm trying to better my life and make a better life for my family than what I grew up in he says and so when I have that choice it's the bus ticket to get to school so every time I'm tired and I because it is a lot of extra work I just remember him and his response of it's it's the choice of the bus ticket awesome thank you I think we can all relate to that I know I taught it to of our colleges before moving into the position at the system office and I think we probably all have similar situations where our students are facing a daily struggle and it really is something you know as something most people probably take for granted is you know is my power bill going to be on this week or am I going to have water or am I going to be able to feed my kids um and so it's uh it can be difficult can be very difficult so um I know your students appreciate everything that you're doing so I do you want to ask we had a question from the community do you happen to know um the the student population size at your college jody oh gosh it's huge okay I'm thinking somewhere like 20 000 full time okay in the day yeah it's it's big okay we are going to answer wikipedia wikipedia has it at 27 800 yeah we're the only community college in westchester county okay um so the next question for um we'll pass this over to larry is what oer materials are you using and what was the process of adopting oer like for you um so that's kind of a long question we are using um in our math department and me personally we are we have become an oer math department so we are using open stacks for everything we can so um that was our go-to textbook place so we're using open stacks from um all the way from pre-algebra through uh calc 3 is what most people call it although it's fourth quarter we're on the quarter system um fourth quarter calculus we're using we're using linear algebra um oer by it's uh heifer meant heiferon but we're going to change that to lear next year we like that book better and that's the thing with oer you can you you don't have to stay with the book because on it is another one um and then for our differential equations we're using the trench book but my feeling is that the book is actually a very small piece of it um you talk to students and they spend a very small amount of time on the book in terms of learning compared to watching videos and going to the online homework system so we're using my open math for the online homework system in all of our courses um i set that all of our all of our math courses i should say so every math course uses my open math and we also use a lot of other materials so i'm a programmer i've done a lot of programming and created oer materials so for example i created my own spreadsheet program for statistics and we use that for statistics um and lots of interactive activities that's a great thing about oer is you don't have to stick with what the book has only is that you can go and find things from all over the place put them together and now you have your system and we've done we've done that a lot uh we also use a lot of i don't know if it's officially oer but youtube videos i don't know if you call it i don't know i don't know licensing all that but i call them oer enough because the students don't care as long as they don't have to pay so we have a lot of link videos from the books and materials and all of that i found the students do a lot more video watching than text reading textbook reading um and because we're a small college i see them a lot so they do a lot of video watching and so we have lots of videos support for all of our content in math um in terms of the adopting oer what was the process of adopting so i'm kind of the beginning of it is i did it many many many years ago i don't think the name oer was there yet okay um and in fact i did 1994 to start and it definitely wasn't there people didn't know what the internet was that was the beginning of oer i wrote my own oer materials um so adopting was easy when i wrote it and then um barba lasky's here we adopted her book as the first book and thank you barba for putting that out as an open educational resource um it hasn't been a problem and i have convinced our entire department now our whole department is oer not just my classes but there's there's a learning curve there's a learning curve there is work involved but once you get into it and you get the feel for it it's not any harder than non oer stuff so the process was you just look at the materials and you say what's going to work for your curriculum and for your teaching style and then i put in my syllabus pretty simple so i want to um just let everybody know some information from chat so um barba mentioned that some youtube videos are oer um when you upload a video you have the option to go into the advanced area and choose a creative commons by license but the default is not a cc by license it's a general standard standard youtube license um so um and and um so that's something to remember when you're searching if you if you want true open resources so like if you want to take that video and do something with it besides linking to it like if you need to edit it or do anything to it by anyway um then you want to definitely look for that cc by license um on the video and then we had a question from the audience from jennifer louder milk um hi jennifer um so do you house your extra content your videos or notes um etc in an lms such as blackboard desire to learn canvas or do you house everything in my open app we i house a lot in canvas but a lot of his links to stuff stuff that i've created myself i put on the college web server and then it gets housed by lt about by league talk community college okay i've done a lot of that too um but um in the last few years we moved to canvas um which is if you don't know is lms yes so we have i have created uh canvas shells for each of the courses and then i have a plethora of items in canvas i believe in having a whole lot more than the students can handle but you let them choose what's best for their learning style awesome thank you um jody do you want to um pick up on that what what type of oer materials are using currently and um what was the process of adopting like for you we are currently using open stacks for calculus and we're using david lytman's book for our quantitative reasoning course and that's pretty much like what larry said is that open stacks is it except for the lytman book the lytman book is the only one we've really found for quantitative reasoning and it's a good book um the process of adopting i was out on a medically for a semester half half leave i taught online and did a project and the project was to research open or oer materials for all of our courses and from that list then um a bunch of us got together and we picked what we thought were the best ones to use and so we have uh currently 15 in our department we are in the process of hiring three more um so and i have i'm a co-chair of the department and i staff the adjuncts and i have 80 adjuncts so we have a ton i know it's wild uh we have a lot of people so we have given right now people a choice they can use the publisher's textbook or they can use the oer and i'm really good at shaming people as to like um you know if you i honestly have said in a department meeting if you're still using that publisher's textbook here's what you're doing to your students um and then they all just chuckle at me these days but i don't stop um let's see so it's been kind of up and down for adopting we've had some that started using open stacks for calculus and they went back to the steward book um it's it's a lot of work a lot um i put in um well that's more question number four i guess is how is my teaching changed but for me i give guided notes to all of my students for every section that we do in class and so whenever i change textbooks i have to change all those guided notes and so that's a lot of work as far as where we like you're asking Larry about the videos i i record all of my class lectures every semester and i put them up in blackboard so that um students have access to that if they miss class or they want to just listen again at first i thought maybe they would use that as a reason to miss class but i think if they think that they quickly find out in the classes that i'm teaching that that doesn't work so um they use them to listen to them again and those are in blackboard right okay thank you so do you want to go ahead and and answer for while we're here so what what has changed um obviously you you mentioned that some things may have changed in the way you teach the course anything besides you know sharing those lecture notes and um and those guided notes to the students have you have you found yourself making any other modifications to the way that you're presenting information to them i think i'm a better teacher it's made me go out and look for resources that are not there in those big publisher textbooks and i've had to go out i'm not if i have one gripe about the opus textbook is that there's not enough problems and so i have gone out and found extra free worksheets for students and and sometimes written my own problems to enhance those as well so i think for me i've become a better teacher awesome thank you larry do you want to piggy back off of that at all um in terms of things that i've changed the main thing i think i'm also more up to date because i searched for things um one of the things is i've been almost i've been in merlot for on the board forever basically since the beginning of merlot and i'm the chair of the merlot board which means i get to see all the stuff that comes in and there's a lot going in that's one of the hard parts about merlot there's so much going in that you can't find stuff um so i have gotten to the point where i get to see everything that's out there and i can bring things in also because we're not tied to a textbook i bring a lot more current events in i teach statistics as one of my main classes so it gets me to come in and go find a news article on something that's going on today and bring that into my class and i can literally change the oer the day before so that the students are reading has today's information and you can't do that with just a flat textbook as well um and i make videos um just like um just like as mentioned every course had every section has a video that i've done long and short i got both um so it's gotten me to do a lot more um collecting harvesting might be the better word that's great i think um i think what most people find with um transitioning to oer um and then sticking with it for a while they'll find that keeping their courses current and keeping themselves current is um easier because you're already out there and you're constantly updating um i know when i taught i did use publisher material but um i was in the design and media program and i was constantly updating my term my courses every term um and so uh in moving to oer it's even even more so you're updating constantly um and and really that's what makes you better teachers you know that's what that helps you on your skill a little bit um and it shows your students too that um that you're human and you have new things to learn in new ways um new ways of presenting information and and i think a lot of people will find that when they move to oer that will be the case for them as well so before we move to the next few questions is there anything else um larry or um or jody that you'd like to add just one i didn't mention um because you didn't ask me about this but specific questions about you know why we moved to oer i used to have students when i taught whatever i taught we had we used my my my math lab and i talked to them a week too i haven't done your homework and the student couldn't afford it and i can't just say i'm sorry you failed my class because you don't have money um i just couldn't do that and to me that was the absolute number one reason why we got to go to oer it's just not fair to tell us do that they have to fail because they can't afford the hundred and twenty dollars for the online homework system yeah um i agree i i sent an email just last week um from some updates um from a report that was found that uga the uga oer report that came out um in november and um my question to a handful of colleagues was that if our students are coming into our colleges um and we are tying ourselves to student success how can we really be setting setting those students up for success if the first thing we're asking them to do is pay hundreds of dollars um for the textbook when most of them can't even afford the tuition most of our students are financial aid students um and in in the community college world um that's normally the case um and so i think that um i think that's where it all starts really um larry is you know students again the realities of um the financial college burden for students so um i commend you both for recognizing that and um and taking action for it and so this second part is um the last of the questions um and we are doing good on time i believe so um i want to ask if you have had any responses for your students um about oer i know jody you mentioned you know um your situation with some of your students um with your um your like focus group question but um are there any have you done any um assessments or surveys regarding student success rates and then do you have any feedback from your students and and how they have responded to using oer they tell me that it helps them reduce their stress because it's one less thing they have to worry about they can buy the bus ticket they can pay the gas bill they can put food on the table um and that's another you know big motivation they're already stressed as it is you know even more so than when any of us were in college i think so every semester i send out emails um starting at about a month before classes start and i say i'm using the open stacks textbook do not buy the steward book um here's a link to the textbook and the number of thank yous that i get back from students every semester is it is just it's so worth it to have them appreciate it and i think and i said before i think to them it's a textbook you know they're um they want the homework assignment and they also oh gosh they also they don't care about all the color and all the history in fact i had a conversation um the big publisher reps don't really stop by my office anymore um which really hasn't bothered me um but but the last conversation i had with one of the publisher reps was that i said you know you and i love that history stuff in the textbooks but chances are most of our students don't read it i don't care about the color they don't care about the color i don't care that it's a 13th edition you know when you get to the fourth and fifth and sixth edition isn't it kind of redundant to be giving putting out a new edition because the textbook we were using they would change like section 2.3 problem seven from y equals x to the fourth two y equals x to the sixth and i i said to the rep i said there is no difference in these two problems oh i can assure you that not most ambitious aim with the author but i can assure you that they're pedagogically necessary i said okay so then you have ron larsh and call me of course he never did um but it's ridiculous past that and so have you i'm gonna follow we had a question um for larry i believe for my math lab but larry do you want to mention um about your students have they responded at all how have they responded to the oer and have um have you guys put anything out for student success rates um i'll tell you they respond in two words thank you i hear that more than any two words i've never heard a student say we need to go back to the publisher we need to have the publisher version i never hear for that um what it is is and this is something that it's an economics issue and if any of you have studied economics in terms of supply and demand curves um textbooks are an inelastic purchase and what that means is if you raise the price the students aren't going to say well i'm going to buy the cheaper book because they don't have a choice so the the the person to decide on what book to use is not the person that's buying the book um the same things happens with health care yep and it's the same reason why textbook prices actually if you've looked at the math textbook prices in health care have gone up at almost the same rate textbook prices are actually a little higher than health care believe believe or not and for the students they get punished because they got to pay but they don't need they don't get to make the choice they don't make the economic decision they just have to pay the instructor is the one that makes the decision and that's one of the tough ones is that the instructor doesn't have to pay it's easier to use the publisher because the publisher just does everything for you but it's definitely not easier for the student and it's a problem it's a problem and i think they've gotten to be so high that now we have a big OER movement because we need to do something about it and this is what we're doing um the other main difference is that with OER it's a community with a publisher it's someone giving you a textbook very different um so in terms of using the the book the students tell me what they like changed they say you know this this particular part wasn't very good and i i have a group we've developed a whole homework system it's all OER and they let me know and you know i go and fix it and then the next term new students tell me but of course they have less severe things to tell me because the last students have already helped improve it for this particular class um and that's something you get with OER which you don't get with publisher books and publisher um open homework systems because publisher homework systems it's the homework systems they care most about and the fact that we can react to the students needs individually and make changes on our own for them really makes it worth it and the students very much like it um as a statistician i can't tell you about our success rate because our sample size is too small and i think i would and my students would get mad at me if i tried to use the sample size of 22 and came came up with a p-value on that and tried to do statistics on it we're a really tiny college so we've done surveys but they're our sample sizes are just too small to really have a good analysis on it and again as a statistics professor i just couldn't do that but i can tell you individually they tell me thank you a lot um so jody do you happen to have um any success rate um information by any chance no we haven't okay done any stats on that i don't think right now from looking at the knowing the past failure rates of classes now i don't think it's really changed any okay if maybe if it has maybe it's improved a little bit more because it has taken off a lot of stress um so for um jody we'll pick up with you what changes um might you make to improve the courses um that you have now so as you're um as you're updating your courses what are you finding um that you feel like you may be changing the most or um what changes are you anticipating that you'd like to make i think writing more problems um for the open stacks textbook we have uh one of my colleagues matt regala he's the one that piloted the open stacks with me the first semester and he is in the process and it's it's been over a year now and we hope to have calc one ready for the fall um but open stacks will be in lumen learning um and that's matt we can go in and correct some of the errors that are in open stacks we can also write more problems than put them in the open stacks in lumen and and also you know my open math or wherever else we can put them to help people with the homework set awesome um and what so larry do you have any um any changes that you are anticipating making with your courses before we just want to respond to what she said okay um we just are we just finished a grant where we had a big team of workers to work on my open math and we created thousands of questions and they all go with open stacks and there are we are you have access to them um not a problem you just go in and you can take them and if you for some reason you don't want digital you know math style you can do print copy and you can print them out they're open you can even copy and paste them into whatever you're doing that's what oer is all about so that's the first thing is that um we did that for all the way from beginning algebra through calc three okay which we call fourth quarter but you know the can you say that's my open math larry what's that that's in my open math yep in my open math oh heavens you just made my day yeah so there is a chapter of questions my only request is that if you have suggestions let me know and i can make them better because that's what it's all about to me it's all about a team instead of a publisher or an author saying this is what i've got take it or leave it um the idea is we're supposed to be a team working on this stuff i think that's going to help some of ours that left open stacks and went back to the steward book yeah yeah that could help um yeah that definitely can help so we definitely have again i have that my open math piece and in terms of what changes you might make i think that was a question right um i'm always making changes and that's what i was trying to say is that that's the whole point is that we can always make changes and make it better i made three changes this morning that um 4 30 in the morning don't ask wake up early and i added more to it every single day i'm adding but i'm i like doing fundamental black and white changes no it's all these little modifications and then each year it gets better and better and better and better and that's the idea that that's kind of how um my open math works you can take and take and leave anybody's questions or whatever you can do that um let me share just one second okay let me stop sharing and we do have another show my screen i can just share um the link oh okay in the in the uh in the chat please thank you yeah so question um from jennifer louder milk uh do you have suggestions on how to search for good unbroken highly used problems in my open math this may be more uh this may be more offline question um but yeah there are search functions in it the other thing you can do is you can grab a course and you can use that to start and then add more in by just in the search feature um the unbroken that's the thing if it's broken you just don't use it but you might have to check and if it's broken if one of mine instead of just don't use it you just hit the message the author and then i'll make it unbroken i do that every morning so that's just a note if it definitely works let me um check this out see this is what i like about it just went to the to my google sheet the google thing that has this and i got three people looking at it right now and so let me copy the link in for everyone oh i'm i did a google doc on how to get started about the math and where our courses are in a bunch of courses it gives a course id so you can go to that id and you can look at all our questions are they perfect absolutely not but we we're always going to improve it's never going to be perfect but it'll get better and better and better you know each each time people give feedback and i can make them better awesome thank you so much for sharing that larry i think a lot of people are going to find that super helpful who are interested in um um in the mom platform my open math platform yeah it's a great platform by the way can i address the oer and um lumen and my open math question on chat sure if you are a and at a suny college at university of new york um and you use lumen suny has partnered with lumen and so it's free um but my understanding about the difference with the twenty five dollar fee that you pay for lumen versus being free and if anybody knows please please correct me if i'm incorrect um is that it's going to be a lot easier to access a course um a last matrim thought and things are housed more in a compact area and i know that david litman is working with lumen um right now that's about all i know about what the twenty five dollar fee is for so i'm going to piggyback off that um since i just met with the lumen folks um last week at the open conference in florida um and um i know a couple of our colleges here in the technical support technical college system are doing that but um so the twenty five dollar fee jennifer's has approached a couple of these so instructor support lms integration assistance one of the other things that it covers is also a lot of data on the backside of what your students are doing and how they're performing um and so as opposed to just linking to the textbook um and the resources it also gives you some back-end resources that your lms may not be able to provide if you're just using um the textbook and the video resources um sort of kind of all encompassing in within your lms so um the twenty five dollar fee it is my understanding that also covers some of that back-end data that instructors would like to uh would like to know and so un has given me the warning we've got about four minutes left so um and um so the last guiding question so any takeaways um larry or uh or jody advice words of wisdom to faculty who are um using or considering using oer for their courses um one thing i would mention is that there are people like myself and a lot of other people out there who have been doing this for a long time so if we have someone coming in for the first time my recommendation is don't try and create the entire course by themselves um what they can do is they can copy one of our courses and then modify it as they start teaching it otherwise it will be absolutely overwhelming so again it's much easier just copy someone else's class and then maybe the second time around make modifications to work for them instead of try to start from scratch and oer is all about not having to start from scratch that's exactly what i would say um okay in any do you want to add anything to that don't don't start by yourself have somebody else in your department doing it with you i think that was a great help when matt and i started together on this and then just be prepared for a lot of work but also remember that like larry said there's a lot of this out there that have done a lot of work so already and now that i know he's got all those calculus problems out there i'm gonna go i'm gonna go get them and it's gonna you know reduce the the work that i have to put in and then share those with the rest of my department i want to mention one more thing and i want to it's more of an offer um i'd be happy to chat with anybody just on one on one zoom i'm on zoom also um one on one zoom i could chat zoom with your whole department or whatever and kind of show you around and you know i'm happy to do that as long as i don't have to miss my class for it of course not you know for me very glad to do that with anybody thank you both so much um so we've got we want to be mindful larry has a class um at one and so we don't want to uh impede that i'm so i'm gonna go ahead and share a few more things and then jody if you want to hang around for a few minutes afterwards please feel free we may have a couple of more questions that come in sure um so we do have some upcoming conferences if you go on our website and look under get involved um there is a list um of conferences that are coming up most of them are um at the national or state level type conferences um i do want to say that we're working on um kind of expanding that so if you are at a college who has some type of oer um conference or a system that has an oer conference do let us know you can always email myself um or una um we want to try to expand on that if you are inviting or would like to invite participants even though it may be a college conference um that are outside of your college or your system please let us know so that we can um we can share those with the community as well um and then we do have a community email link here for you as well where you can stay in touch with us um through our community email which is extremely active and then i want to mention our spring webinar series so obviously this week march 4th through the 8th um we are wrapping it up today um and again if you've missed any this week they are recorded um so you will be able to watch them after the fact um and then we have april 3rd the oer connection with dual enrollment may 8th the oer ztc degree pathways webinar and then june 5th we have our regional models for oer implementation and um further descriptions and a registration link available there as well and then lastly um we want to say thank you so thanks for those of you who stuck around for um 45 minutes or so to hang out with us um we do have someone asking if we could share contact info again for larry and jody so i don't let me just double check i don't think your contact info was in the very front nope um so if larry or jody if you want to share your contact info in the chat that would be wonderful can i mention something too absolutely may the third in real hondo college in southern california and may the fourth in um solano community college in northern california we're having a pre statistics oer workshop and all are invited to come to that and it's um sponsored through our academic um senate for california community colleges and it's a workshop not a talk it's where you're going to come and build a course and we're going to show you how to do that and by the end you should have a course maybe not polished but at least started um by the end of the workshop all of us for this for the pre statistics statistics stats co rec which is a big thing in california right now wow that's amazing so if any of you are local to that area um check it out because that's going to be incredible to kind of walk away with getting started um and or a course so again i want to thank everybody um for joining us on this very last day of our open ed week um we're so glad that you could make it here on a on a friday um and it looks like i don't think i have any outstanding questions from the chat for those of you who are interested um we did get a um paul goalish is here um from lumen learning so the term he was mentioning that the terms of use between mom um and ohm are very different and he's happy to send uh the different terms of use to all those who are interested in and he's put his email up in the chat so um if you want to reach out to paul for additional additional information that would be great um unna is there anything else that we would like to cover i think we're great awesome thank you guys thank you larry and jody for joining us um wealth of information today um for um for math um i think math for me is probably one of the harder ones um for some of our faculty uh it's a hard transition and it's a lot of work um and when you have a lot of faculty um it takes um it takes a lot of effort um to make that kind of transition when you're so used to using publisher materials but it can it can be done i think larry and jody you're both um amazing and excellent examples of how to do it and how to do it successfully so again i want to thank everyone um for joining us today and uh we hope to see you in the community email thanks very much