 you probably know Jim was you know we all were back in Bernie's day as we were part of his early good evening Jim was the first clerk on the journey okay I think Jim needs you to take problems test Jim test test I hope so can you hear me is this good enough okay hello testing testing testing testing hello hello so we're just waiting for technical tell us a story show me I've got nothing Christine able to make it she had to be at another meeting statewide priorities no no I wasn't go to the fighter jets huh okay so we're gonna call to order this meeting of the board of police commissioners March 27th are there any modifications for the agenda public forum is there anyone here wishing to speak for public forum if you want to come up to the microphone and we'll just ask you to say your name hi my name is a banyony I don't know do I say it in here that's fine thank you so I'm here today because recently I was part of a public election process and I had some really bad media happened to me in which Christine long long more made a few comments underneath the media saying that I don't represent 90% of the black community and why I came and unfortunately she's not here is because I wanted to ask if she thinks she represents 90% of the black community and if there's anyone who represents and there's millions of us in the US 90% of the black community I thought as a representative that that was extremely and extremely inappropriate comment to make as someone who is supposed to at least be a voice for others and I would like to see that something is done I would like to an apology and I would like to see where her head was at with that I've literally only spoken to her in life a few times so I don't know how she can make such claims and again it's unfortunate that she's not here but I did see a piece that she sent out to the racial justice coalition charging that you know some groups were not me but other groups were saying that she had I mean what they were saying was defamation of character was demonizing and it was strange it was strange because that's the very thing that she signed on to regarding her own people group regarding a black woman so I want her to be able to be accountable as we're all growing in the public atmosphere and in the private atmosphere any other public comment thank you Ebony sure so first so that she can she can go home because she's been she's been waiting I'd like to introduce I don't know if you want to you can speak right from there but this is Kayla Donahue she is a full-time opioid data analyst she is under the auspices of the Chittany County Opioid Alliance but she works here in the Burlington Police Department and as far as her work priorities it's sort of like half and half between the overall needs of the Alliance of which we're a part and in the needs of the Burlington Police Department so when we talk about having a data-driven approach to the opioid crisis you know you're looking at literally the face of it so and Ebony do you want me to you want me to reach out to you in a bit just to want me to reach out to you about this by way of follow-up I'm sorry oh sure yeah thank you okay thanks for coming just before before everybody left so go ahead take it away Kayla wonderful so I'm Kayla Donahue I'm a trained epidemiologist I have a master's in public health from Boston University sorry so I guess I'm just really excited to be here and working on this project and I'm learning more about the opioid crisis happy to be working with the police department and exploring some police data it can be really useful I think in combating some of this public health work and public safety work that we're doing together and here's a resource if people have questions or want to look at different data outcomes happy to do my best and be here for the community yeah I think one of the things we're seeing is that when we started this initiative over two years ago we had I was just saying this to Kayla today we had no no data but I mean we had a very we knew at the end of the year we know how many people had died that was pretty much the extent of our understanding and I know the Department of Health had a repository of data that the average late person didn't know where to find in police departments didn't know how to make sense of but now I think with with Sam the prior analyst we got a very very solid foundation and now Kayla comes in Sam had more general quantitative training Kayla has specific training in epidemiology and biostatistics so we're trying to always with each iteration bring it to the next level so that's that's we're at and I just wanted you to meet our new employee so welcome welcome aboard hey go ahead thank you what kind of data will you are you specific types of data you're going to be take it away Kayla all right so I think historically we've been looking at a lot of kind of trends over time so we've been looking at crime rates like related to opioid use so some of those include like increased retail theft burglary prostitution things along those lines so we've been looking at those and comparing them to opioid related crimes like drug possession or overdose we have data from the hospital they share the emergency department encounters so we have those numbers and then we also have their disposition so where they're going when they leave the emergency department we have some data from the hubs and are the Chittenden County hub rather and the spokes in the area so we have data on how many people are requesting services how long it's taking them to get services things like that and then we have the siren data that the health department shares with us which is from the emergency medical responders so it's the EMS database so it's how many overdoses and naloxone distributions were given by EMS across the state and then for Chittenden County so we're working on getting some more and then of course the police data which oh wait I mentioned that sorry this has been a long day so you know working on kind of coordinating all the data that we have access to you see if there's any gaps and new data that we need and then hopefully doing some more kind of studies so we have like our subset group that meets are you familiar with all that perfect so kind of seeing if we can delve more into that and try to predict who's going to end up in the subset group before they're there try to be a little more proactive about who we're reaching out to maybe even following those you know following those individuals and back tracing to see where good intervention points could have been and you know trying to do that for the new generations coming into this so a lot of projects talked about even looking at how this is impacting first responders and police so how showing up at an overdose scene is going to influence the individual looking at some of the clinical data with the clinician here for the first responders things along those lines are some initial projects we talked about but I'm sure you know just jumping into it so there'll be more to come. Thank you. Of course. Yeah and by way of invite maybe Laura can remind me or we'll do it on an email blast we always welcome to come to the community stat meetings if you haven't been to one yet I think it's pretty interesting maybe can play hooky from work or school or home life it's this Thursday from 8.30 to 11 is that right two and a half hours 8.30 to 11 at Contois it's every with some exceptions it's every last Thursday of the month and it is not open to the press because we have very candid meetings and involve like agencies accounting for some of the decisions they make including our own but it is open to community like leaders so to speak and stakeholders which is the police Commission for sure so if you want to remind you will remind me but we just blast out and invite to them if you can't make it this month because it's in two days three days you can always come to any of these and I think it would be helpful to see our work in community stat on the opioid crisis was recently noticed by the viewer Institute of Justice it's a it's a criminal justice reform group that just looks at innovative ways of doing policing it's based out of New York City but it's got offices and other places in the country they sent up a film crew and a reporter they're writing a 3,000 word feature on our work they interviewed Kayla at length it's basically about Kayla no Kayla Jackie you know they interviewed the mayor myself Tom Dalton at the modern criminal justice reform grace of the needle exchange so our work is you know I think at the end of the day are we so just a reality check are we down or up for for opioid deaths we're up 2016 to 2017 again it's up up statewide and we're up countywide a lot percentage wise so the unobserved hypotheticals would it have been worse but we're trying everything we can and we're trying alternatives we're not just running around with handcuffs although handcuffs do have a place and you know I think we're also really really coming to see and Kayla can pick up on this as well that which become clear you know we've been down to like I mentioned down to Johns Hopkins and you pen and John's John Jay in New York and talking the Center for Naval Analysis so there's a lot of like talking heads but I think what's become clear is the evidence shows that that the medicine that replaces opioids in your in your in your nervous system so to speak is is what's really effective at reducing overdoses and reducing opioid dependence so that means buprenorphine suboxone methadone anything's become really really clear to us I mean people have known it since 2012 we were just looking at research today like the studies are six seven eight years old we're looking at a very compelling study that says even without counseling and psychosocial support medicine alone significantly reduces dependence and overdose I don't know if you want to talk about that really briefly you can just say that's right but no no you know whatever you say chief yeah so there's a been some compelling studies that saying in the short term just treatment with buprenorphine alone can reduce mortality and reduce illicit opioid use it can reduce criminal behaviors and it can increase retention and to treatment and it can increase the likelihood of somebody going into further treatment and then you know there's other research to this as in the long term in order to really assess the trauma and sort of the underlying reasons why people started using opioids that counseling and other supportive services are really needed for a long term recovery but in the short tour in the short term the study that we were looking at earlier was specifically the first 12 weeks that buprenorphine really plays a big role yeah they looked at for example people who addicted to opioids at a control group and an experimental group the experimental group got buprenorphine just here's buprenorphine go away basically no wraparant no counseling no job training no nothing they had 90 they ended up after 12 weeks being over 70 percent completely opioid abstinent just having gotten the drug whereas the control group was zero percent opioid abstinent they were still using so what this means for us kind of why I'm bringing it up with Kaylee here and during the chiefs update is that one of the jobs of the Burlington police department is to assist the city in a proper population level as far as the city and county goes response to the opioid crisis and so one of the things we've come to see is that we want to advocate for the greater availability of the medicine right now the way to get it is to enter into a spoke or a hub there's still about a three week wait is that right to get into a hub even when you're spoke even when you're when you want it right now but in those three weeks study show if we just gave people the buprenorphine started dosing them on it would have good effects immediately so we're exploring I'm like the prelude that the preview is it is it we're exploring ways to get buprenorphine administered out of the needle exchange God kind of some I've read and heard people testify that it you have to be careful the way it's prescribed rather than just what way if you if people take too much of it for instance that's met methadone really is is susceptible to that it's very hard to overdose you can't over I want to see anything's possible I'm sure they'll find some scientific it's virtually impossible to overdose on people overdose but become disconnected from reality I don't know if that's the case so much with with methadone you're gonna overdose on right I mean buprenorphine so the idea is if you think especially if you're taking it with benzos buprenorphine does have a suppressant effect it's a partial it's an opiate some partial agonist so it behaves partially like an opioid but the proposition though is that you're the danger of fatal overdose is practically zero on it so it's it's it's not to to as Kayla was alluding to it's not about long-term recovery it's about stabilizing a population reducing mortality and reducing overdose probability and for most people they don't overdose either they don't take an excessive dose they they can return to work they can reorder their priorities and there's a new technology there's a new FDA approved drug it's a thousand dollars a shot so we can't afford it but it's 30 days of buprenorphine in your in your arm so you it's dosed to your needs in your arm you can't divert it or sell it on the black market you don't have to come back and get a new prescription it's just there for 30 days that will be a game changer everybody says but right now it's a thousand dollars a shot so it's a wealthy person's option so it's kind of where we're going conceptually with with opioids is towards the the medicine abstinence works 10% of the time like just saying go find Jesus doesn't doesn't work so we're exploring that and we have research partners who interested in at least helping us a little bit like folks at Johns Hopkins like if you need you know without having a grant in place if you need some technical assistance just getting a program like this set up we'd be happy to help so it's kind of where we said sound right yeah and the UVA Medical Center in the emergency room they're doing a trial study that's going to be beginning in May where they're going to randomly select people who are coming in with overdose and getting them started on a three-day prescription of buprenorphine with a follow-up assessment within 24 hours so the idea would be that you know some people would get buprenorphine the day that they're presenting in the emergency room with an overdose and then the next day they would be assessed for treatment so that hopefully will go well we'll see how it plays out during their trial period but I think they're looking to get at least 30 people and roles and then they'll conclude the study after that if it if it goes well they'll be prolonging that and I think that'll become the standard of care so we'll see how that all goes but they do have some plans in place I know Dr. Brooklyn is working on you know if somebody says great I want to go into treatment and they're ready to go in after that the hospital is going to find a way to make sure they're getting buprenorphine but like before they get into the hub for example in three weeks and stuff so they're trying to fill in some of those gaps and there's a lot of moving pieces so hopefully yeah and getting opioids I'm sorry to highlight what you're saying getting opioids at the emergency department that pilot if you ask the doctors who implemented it it's a result of community stat we asked them for data every month of what happens when you show up at the emergency department and the number one outcome of showing up in overdose I mean after reversal the number one follow-up is nothing like 90 percent of the time it's just hey you're still addicted you got some naloxone you're alive go home and then the second most frequent outcome is you die in the ER so after showing that for months and months the doctors were like listen we got to do something that's not there's a neither neither of those outcomes is optimal so they're starting this pilot where you get buprenorphine at the ER three days but with it with and I presume they'll make you take the first one there if you want to do it and then you get an appointment with a psychiatrist to get into treatment so that's a that's again that's some of the work I know we talk a lot about other things in policing but this is one of the we don't have a health department in the city so that you know it's no secret the city relies on the police department to help out with this and we've been diving headlong into it so the wait for the psychiatric appointment well the hospital intends to give you a psychiatric appointment within 72 hours last I heard yeah and I just heard this morning actually to that Valley Vista has funding to do telemedicine assessments so they're going to be rolling that out to you in the next couple months so that they'll be able to do kind of on-demand teleassessments from a physician so hopefully you know that'll go well and they'll be able to expand that statewide to you in the coming months but that is something that I know like we're working on to you at the Chittenden County Opiate Alliance we have a treatment access and recovery support services action team and just getting I think a number one priority was reducing the wait list which we've done which is great so now kind of where we're moving with that is getting treatment on demand and reducing the wait time to appointments so that is something that's on the radar and a need area that we've identified already is faster assessments more trained people to do assessments and at more avenues and then more people who have kind of a navigator role who know how to navigate the system know how to complete the assessments and then really work to get you into care similar like to what Jackie's doing and then they have somebody at safe recovery as well who does this so we're working to increase capacity. Yeah. Good summary. I'm sure I'll remember. Oh no there is adequate 72 hour appointment with a psychiatrist in the hospital it's still about a three week wait. They don't call it a waiting list. There's I think a sleight of hand going on trying to get to the bottom up but if you went right now to to any place it refers you to treatment they would they would give you an appointment immediately for about three weeks from now so you're not waiting for the appointment but you're waiting to go to the appointment so there's a definitional problem here but we're going to get to the bottom that you're going to someone's gonna say something. You talked about a new program where someone from the department and someone from the fire emergency were going out to houses. Yeah that's been that's happened about three times the last time we did it so that's not uncommon for our overdose numbers go up and down and we had like in in the summer we had a month where there was only one or two overdoses the entire month so we've had three since that started. One the person was very lukewarm the other one we knocked on the door I know of two and one of the most like invidious burglars in Burlington like dove out the back window not even the person who overdosed it was like remember that I don't know if Michael Sean Foster you can you tell them this is Mike Warren he's the detective bureau lieutenant and he will be the the training and administration officer starting in April so he has some business tonight but if it's his first meeting which is first meeting right so anyway so Mike you want to so we knocked on the door hey we want to help the guy who overdosed and then Sean Foster dives out the back window so used to rip ATMs out of walls throughout the county. Did he violate his conditions when he dove out the window? Was he under 24 hour curfew? No. Because as you say the second he broke the plane of the window he'd be violating conditions early so that's quite a condition oh but you could I mean you had data on him he's every time he gets out he just goes right back to committing burglars so it's vexing so the point is is that we've only had two or three but maybe just two of these responses and that person she's called us back and said yeah thank you for leaving this stuff I know why I wasn't around but I heard my friends dove out the window so is that something you select depending on the nature of the no if you overdose we go we just got most people apparently reverse overdoses themselves with with Narcan or they go direct to the hospital we only get involved when there's a police call of an overdose and we know that it happened and there's only been two maybe three but probably just two since then we just be police so would it also be the EM no no so there's fire department chief Locco is chief chief Burke and Jackie the opioid policy coordinator very mixed results so far to be candid not a bad thing but it's not like we've saved anyone because of it I know you're probably good to go I'm working on an evaluation tool for that program as well so that we can actually look at data in regards to the safe response team and see if it's worthwhile to do or if there are things that we can change to improve it nice to meet you all thank you so much Mike did you catch the guy that went out the back window but he wasn't doing anything wrong I said a crime to dive out your back window so to finish up with the chief's report we took delivery of the emergency response vehicle that we spent a lot of time talking about what's that no no it's it's in a secret location in the city it's actually no no I don't think I mean it could it could it would wreak havoc on my lawn to turn that thing around in my backyard so it's it's as the the head of one of the one of the the head of maintenance at at Department of Public Works said one way to think of it is is a big Ford F550 pickup truck with eight toolboxes on the back which is the exact clinical definition of what it is but it's a big really really well built vehicle very very high quality construction select design did the design work on it it looks stunning and until we're ready to roll it out properly no pun intended we're going to keep it at streets undercover not sir you mean just you know because if I parked it here or there people would say what the heck is that thing and the officers aren't trained to drive it yet it hasn't been filled with equipment yet we haven't certified cops on the various tools so we want to do that in a fairly organized manner hopefully by the community barbecue it's just so we can show it to the public there and have a press conference but it did I took my my wife to see it I say our babies in the nursery let's go visit it so we go to DPW but it's an exciting thing I think it's you know considering that it would take the the Vermont State police like at least how long would you say we take the tactical team to get to Burlington like an hour and and you know and they have a very force oriented approach we don't want to wait that long and we want to be able to make sure that the police work is done in a way that we can abide by so this thing even if it just sitting there in the lot which is not our intention and we'd like it to be out rolling it would take a few minutes to get all of this good equipment to the scene and cops you know how to use it so hopefully that will be good for crisis outcomes but that's happening so this will only go out into a car for crisis it's not no I wanted to be out on on because so we we're dealing always with the staffing issue so this truck can be driven I mean it's not this it it's a long line I mean it's a really durable chassis so what I don't want is for the truck to always be at the precinct at the station house and then cops have to get to the scene see it's a crisis and then get back in their cars and go get the truck and bring the truck back I worry that things will unfold pretty quickly and I worry that they'll just be biased towards oh let's just solve it with what we have so we have adequate staffing which should be I'm just making up a number but it's about like half the time or two-thirds of the time I'd like officers to be on patrol in the truck so they can handle police business but if it's not a full size fire apparatus I mean it's bigger it's bigger than an ambulance but a smaller than a fire truck and when I say bigger than an ambulance not much bigger it's just a bit longer I think the like for arguments sake the box on the back of the ambulance is about the same size as the cargo body but unlike an ambulance there's four doors instead of two just to give you like a visual you'll see it soon enough so then if it's out there going the cops are there with it and they bring it with them to the emergency I mean that's the model in many larger cities and I want to see the extent to which we can have that model here so this thing we can expect to see being just driven around right just responding to right right so the right I mean yes that's right with the expectation that the equipment's all there on the roll right there's been more than one occasion where cops could have benefited from equipment and it either took a while to get there or they said you know I don't have it with me so let's just try to solve the people drive the officers that are driving it though I mean they they engaged in what they otherwise would be engaged in if this vehicle wasn't yeah the one thing they can't they can't engage in pursuits with the vehicle and and when they had lights and sirens they can't you know they can't barrel to an incident but they can they can still do police work in it yeah they're still there are regular patrol officers but they've received training on the equipment and in the truck and also the plan is for them to also have you know crisis negotiation and and hostage negotiation training as well so it's about knowing how to operate the truck maintain the equipment use the equipment to be trained in deescalation and about we took we solicited volunteers and I think about 30 so about half of our over half of our patrol force requested to be qualified to drive the vehicle not just drive it but to you know to be a person who can do it and it's not a swat I mean there is like their helmets in the back we discussed this but it's not a the whole thing is as far as lethal weapons go I mean they'll be the same there may be be two additional firearms on the truck more than what two cops and a cruiser would have now like they'd have a sidearm and a rifle here we'd have a sidearm a rifle and a shotgun so it's not for each so it's not like a weapons platform and it's not armored and you can't fight from it I mean are you worried that is there a concern about it being used like on the well we you know we all talked about it you know early on about what it was going to look like and the impression in the community was going to be and I guess I was under the impression that it would be more used in moments where it was needed and not day-to-day driving around town as part of like just another cruiser except it's this you know rather larger right but now I'm hearing that that may not be no I mean I I'm sorry if that was I think I was telling you my what I recall yeah I mean I've been clear that the intent when we have adequate staffing is to always have it on the road and that's just to minimize to number one create the expectation that be used to make sure that it gets there in time to use it and to make sure officers understand that this is equipment that should be brought to the scene immediately and to not have to have them like they could create a perimeter because there's a varricated suspect then to offer so soon I have to leave this perimeter and go back and get the truck and then come back here that may be the case if we're short-step but if we have enough people to just have the truck to begin with I'd like them to bring it with them to the crisis rather than have to go back and get it yeah it just seems like we got a yeah I mean if you if you introduce it as such and you know everybody understands that I think that'd be helpful yeah no and one of the things and then you're gonna bring it out they'll be able to see what's in it right there's no like we can't open this and if you open it there's like grenades and a rocket launcher in it there's no it's it's power tools and and ballistic shields and you know when we talked about that yeah I mean I again I just think that we were we were including yourself was sensitive to how the content was going to respond to this so I think the more visible it is on a day-to-day basis may translate into it being more acceptable or it may want no no right so it could be this idea that folks get used to it but what what I what I feel about this is that you know people demand like rapid and effective de-escalation and isolation and containment and it's not that's not just verbal that requires that the the cities with with adequate budget to feel like a real de-escalation program and isolation and containment for mentally ill people and barricaded people people in crisis fugitives and suspects and all that like you know have these apparatus and they have them deployed quickly or on the road they drive around in them and the driving around partner with standing what I'm trying to say is that is that when to meet these demands we have this equipment and it's I find it in in Congress that Burlington would say we demand this this and this and this but then when professionals bring that about we don't want to see what it looks like right I don't think it's a matter of not seeing what it looks like it's just I think it's more a question of what its function was and I guess right I guess I had the impression that it was it was it was meant to be something that could go and serve the safety of officers at crises and that it was not going to be just another vehicle to drive around town in sort of and do your normal policing work and it sounds like that that's it's assuming there's adequate staff say the way that yeah that if two officers say being in a or an officer being in a cruiser driving around he or she will now be in this larger vehicle driving around right and that makes it a much more visible object I mean I think there's a crisis in the North and then people see this vehicle there and people pulling equipment I've I mean that makes complete sense if they're just seeing it drive through their neighborhood they may they may start to wonder well you know what what have we become if this if this is the norm and I and I guess I didn't understand that it was going to be more what have we become well I mean it would appear to and I haven't seen it yet and that's why we were concerned about the size of it but it it's a lot of city it's not a cruiser it's a larger much larger police vehicle and I don't know what people will view of it that's one of our there'll be a lot of different things people will view of it but you know I I mean I'm saying we become a city that has isolation and containment and negotiation less illegal equipment I constantly available in a durable platform that'll last for a decade like that's the city we've become and you know I'm you know bear in mind like I severed our relationship with the Department of Defense because I don't believe in the over militarization of policing but I also don't believe in it and I'm not saying you said this I'm maybe talking about people who are harsher critics that there's something like de-escalation dust that we just sprinkle on things like we do a physical job where seconds count I mean the reason you know we acknowledge that seconds count in this and that expectations count having the equipment there immediately matters and and so I guess I'm trying to split that I'm looking at the best practice I guess so what I'm trying to say is having this on the role with the level of staffing that we have and it would stay at the station house in cases where we just didn't have enough staffing to meet like a minimum cruiser patrol requirement and put it out because it requires two cops if you had like five cops working that night I wouldn't have like two in this thing and then another three for the whole city but if you have seven or eight or nine cops it would make sense and so we'll have to see I mean I'm not I'm not insensitive to your concerns because they're real I just think we need to at least give the community an opportunity to understand what the vehicle is and what it represents and why we have it and and and let them you know react to that and express opinions right and that seems to me the key is is getting that out there getting letting people see it and see what it's for yeah and it's not it's not an offensive no no that's right it does no I mean you feel it's not like a well you'll see it I mean it's not like a bear cat or we have pictures of it I can show you another picture we have the actual pictures of the actual vehicle so oh yeah no there's another statewide yeah people who people who are afraid of police power and think it's abuse are gonna see a big police thing and worry that it's gonna somehow infringe upon their rights like it's just a it's a writ large it highlights attention in in America right yeah again I guess I'm reacting only because what I expected what I guess I understood it was going to be used more on a case-by-case need as opposed to becoming another sort of right right another patrol vehicle that we were going to use more or less on a daily basis I did not understand that I guess when we first talked about it but that you know that's just the way I understood it I'm not here it's foreshortened because it's I gotta get I gotta get further away from it no no I'm not saying you I understand the concern that you're representing I mean it's it's about how often would you say since we're getting better with our numbers would you say that it that an incident occurs in this city on some you know historical basis in which we would want that vehicle present I think twice a month I think there's cases where there's a burglary with an open door and you don't want to put an officer in there you want to put a robot in we had a barricaded once every three to five weeks we get somebody sorry barricaded in a location and then we've also like you know a few times a year we get called to help folks in other jurisdictions as well so I mean there are other concerns like using too much gas putting too much wear and tear on the platform but again like I'm curious to see I want to come to an understanding of how reasonable it is to say we're gonna not so for me it's clear they're getting at their quicklies better so question is we want to get it there slowly more slowly or with more time when we don't have to because having it out there would offend some sensibilities and in a way that like in a way that's that's that that that is reasonable that's a genuine like if it's just the people who always harbor these feelings no matter what now they're seeing it and they're harboring it against this vehicle that's less of a concern for me to be candid but if it's people who were undecided or on the fence or neutral and I will send the vehicle tips them into trusting the police less that's more of a concern I guess yeah I don't mean to overstay I just know it's just raising I think a concern that's gonna it's gonna come up in the general yeah I don't like seeing it it's too big and I suppose we'll have a will there will be a procedure or a process by which I mean the truck will not do certain things like if there's you know if I'm driving down Pine Street and I'm going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit am I gonna get pulled over by and look back and see this large vehicle that's gonna be somewhat more intimidating than than police already I hope not I mean I don't want the car to get in I just wonder what it's you know the role that it will be used in other than its primary role which is to support right these difficult moments that we have once it's well that's fair to say that's that's the purview of the Commission so I'd like to have that conversation that's that's a worthwhile conversation we because right we don't want it we don't want it engaging in pursuits and we don't want it you know going to certain like very low stakes routine calls where it would like you said I mean if it did a car stop it would block traffic so yeah so I mean I guess what we'll develop a procedure for its use no no of course that's right non thank you that's a that's a valid point it's important to bring up on the heels of that the pretty much covers everything I was just gonna say Stephanie Segrino the UVM economics professor released a statewide car stop data study just just this evening it doesn't break out the Brompton Police Department it does acknowledge that us and the state police are more proactive when it comes to disparity but I just anticipate in light of the her statewide analysis that will will get press inquiries that will ask us to look at Burlington only analyses and where we're ready to talk about a bunch of those not necessarily I mean we can at this meeting but by between this meeting in the next I think this will be in the press and we'll have some results to report the most important of which is that we did 2017 analysis as well for 2016 and 2017 the results of our searches when we do decide to search a vehicle don't vary across race we get about 80% contraband we get contraband about 80% of the time when we search a car regardless of the race of the driver which used to be quite disparate and as an indication of bias and I know I said that we close that gap in 2016 we got 2017 numbers I think we want to say a little bit about that Eric so Eric Fowler our prior BBD day analyst was finishing up an analysis of 2016 for your left so that's not a complete product but you know looking at those initial numbers you know I guess to talk about you know contraband found in searches we decided search a car you know a lot of talk around indicators of bias and policing hone in on when an officer gets next to the driver and is able to determine the race of the driver as they perceive it and they you know look at you what's going on with the car and they make a decision is you know is a crime being committed here as a evidence of a crime and they make the decision whether not to search the car you know is that decision informed by a bias or is that decision informed by the actual evidence as it presents itself on the street side so whether they have a successful search an unsuccessful search with different races the argument is that you know that can show maybe they're using things other than just the evidence to make those decisions for instance if you look at some of our earlier traffic race data we were less successful circling black drivers we were the white drivers and so but that was hinting at was that we might be either applying a higher standard of what we think might be criminal behavior to white drivers or possibly we you know had a lower standard for black drivers you know again this is you can't get an officer's head but you can look at you know with staff's room in that search so moving from that into 2016 we actually saw that kind of flip-flop where we had contragram found 70% of the time when we searched white motorists and 74% of time research black motorists that wasn't statistically significant but it is a flip yeah the good news is that it's well might not be statistically significant it's it's much more level and it's level in a direction right in 2017 I don't know if you said it we had 80% yeah so looking at the 2017 it's pretty much 80% across and that's that's two years running now so it's not the new way it's not a permanent thing but it's not like a year or blip it's it's two years of searches and in Stephanie's report which I was reading tonight just got released she calls this type of disparate outcome the gold standard of an indication of bias and so I'm not saying we just attacked it to like the pride people of the gold standard I think I agree with her that it is an important indication and we really talk to officers about what it meant and and I think we really carefully over the last few years walked officers through the the the intuitive appeal of this measure I mean it makes a lot of sense it's the one you can niggle about what drivers are on the road in state out of state how many black drivers are really on the road but when you know the race of the driver and he or she stopped in front of you and you search them or not it's like a very unambiguous outcome so I think it's promising there's still other disparities but by way of the chiefs update this may come to light in the next few weeks again as a topic of discussion that's all I got thanks I don't know chief this is appropriate time to ask about the regional dispatch update is that sure we can do it during commission in question or maybe if you had any information oh so regional dispatch passed so what that means is that every town in the county except for shellburn will become part of a regional authority with the task of forming a plan and executing that plan to bring about regional dispatches that makes sense so it's not that people can still opt out nothing set in stone but there is now a regional authority that will move towards regional dispatch a meeting with our dispatchers privately tomorrow their concern is that that they weren't included in the process up to this point at all and the advice of the consultant was that in the attorneys who advised the city were that this was a the discussing the terms of work at that point would effect in in effect be a labor negotiation that the city wasn't authorized to have it's still to be candid it really alienated the dispatchers and they worry about their pay and their benefits their job security some of them I think just don't want change others have very legitimate procedural questions about how it would work so ultimately the fire chief is the person responsible for the program he's the basically the program manager the project manager but nonetheless the dispatchers work for this police department and I've been meeting with a few of them personally you know privately but I'm meeting with all of them in this room tomorrow well anyone who wants to come to to make sure they're going forward now that the regional authorities in place and it's a weird thing right if they're working with the regional authority then it's not a labor negotiation because they don't have power to conduct the labor negotiation with the dispatchers it's like policy and planning but if they were to have that very same conversation with Steve Locke as a representative of the city then it's a de facto labor negotiation so I just want to make sure that they have the right voice in this process going forward because ultimately they'll know how to make it work and I don't want them to just throw sand in the motor because they're afraid of change I want them to make a dispatch system that keeps cops safer than the present one gets us there faster gets fire resources there faster and it's a fair good place for dispatchers to work in that's that's where we are so thank you so an update on the community barbecue you want to give the update Laura yeah I just wanted to know that we are having it on May 16th from 4 to 7 p.m. and we're gonna be having it essentially based at Pomeroy Park but also blocking off a small section of North Street for the trucks etc so we're starting to work on building partnership sponsors and that kind of thing so I just put out an event on Facebook so we welcome your attendance as well as any ideas on people that would like to participate we'll have lots of people with tables and lots of kids activities and such yeah it should be great we're keeping it on North Street just a little bit further east this time you know we looked at a lot of different lower like very assiduously looked at all sorts of locations I really like the feel of having it in the street and in a fairly narrow street just so it feels like this like a festival you feel like wow I'm in the street this is not something I normally do we haven't in a park it just it was good last year I just felt diffuse so and you know that that area in the old north end does benefit from police outreach so we're having it by Pomeroy Park as Laura said additionally you know in Pomeroy Park is it's small so it'll feel kind of like there's people and in a smaller area but with the street kind of feel so should be a good combination of things and hopefully disrupt traffic as little as possible review up and I know we're gonna lose a quorum at 8 p.m. but we should be okay well neary's leaving at 8 though yeah so we'll have a quorum until then so review of incoming correspondence you sent it to us and then you know I you know I wasn't sure if that's something that we need to be read every yeah I think if everyone's getting it with the minutes yeah I think there's great feedback yeah it was great the fact that people are going out of their way to send letters and cards and emails it's pretty amazing yeah thank you for sending that to us I think it's good to count they have with officers and their contribution so we get them often and I just think it's worth noting and hopefully you have a chance to read them and I'm gonna channel Christine and she would ask if you've set up a system on the website to do compliments oh great question I was just talking about that with Robert Appel today not that he thought compliments were necessary we're just bringing this up academically we have not made any progress on that but one of the reasons why is we didn't have an analyst Nancy not Kayla but Nancy Stetson who you'll meet next time hopefully is a person who can do that so and she just started about two weeks ago so update on the process involving officer complaints I think there were two people two commissioners last month who hadn't yet checked in with the chief on complaints is anyone here this is the last meeting who followed up on their complaints any feedback on that process no I think everything the way they do it the way they handle the complaints and follow up with the person you know doing the complaint if they want to follow up with that person or give them feedback I think everything worked out really well with them some of the ones that I had they didn't want any feedback or follow up with but most of them did yeah are there any new complaints that we should be circulating no I'll check chief right needed to take the day off but she handles that and she gives me a heads up on any complaint of no and we haven't gotten any if it's anything that we got somebody complaining that we weren't responding to traffic tickets that were submitted to traffic conditions parking conditions submitted to C click fix on weekends but that's because we don't monitor C click fix on the weekends like as policy but no so I wish I had a more certain answer for you but this is my answer like whenever there's a serious allegation I get notified and no one's notified me anything of anything serious since the last meeting it doesn't mean that that there's no complaints but chief rights on here I apologize by way of complaints there's Charles Winkleman is a local progressive leader he ran for city council I met with him one of his worries is that folks don't trust the police enough to come and make certain complaints they don't trust that if we make them by online that will follow up so one of the things I'd like to propose to him I don't know if someone here would actually physically want to be a volunteer he represents certain constituencies in the lbtq lgbtq community as well as just you know the progressive caucus generally if anybody would want to from the Commission to say to reach out to to mr. Winkleman and say if you know someone who wants to make a complaint you can let us know about like you know you can I read like you could say let me know about it I'll walk you through you put it online I'll make sure the chief accounts for it we are serious like you know I believe cops do good work so I I think we should be open about this and if they're doing bad work I want to know right so his concern was that some folks especially transgender folks just don't trust the process at all and if that's true in this misconduct out there I want them to come forward so maybe by having an on police bridge in the form of a commissioner it'll be helpful I don't know if anyone wants to volunteer to do that well yeah I'll volunteer Christine because I'll check with her but she's really good at that yes about it every month right so I would I'd like to have her do that because I think she's got such a good way of ex welcoming feedback right so are you in unless there's anyone here who wants to I can check with her I check because she's so busy sometimes she is busy but she's also so willing to do things like this it could be you know could be more than one person I'll check with her and get any updates I had a question that I understand Chief Burke is he's been Chief Burke was selected and make this really weird process he was selected to sorry South Burlington he was selected to be the chief of the South Burlington police department now starting in July as a deputy chief and then becoming the actual chief next January so he's got you know like four months to stew and then six months to apprentice and then he'll be the chief but I mean I felt like I'd take a little credit for for mentorship I found him to be a great deputy chief of police and one of my right-hand people in a big way and I'm proud of him I wish he'd stay I love working with them and I think it does a great job but hey I left my police department to be a chief so I get it yeah and he'll be right across the street that there's this conspiracy that we're just gonna form one big police department which wouldn't be the worst thing but there's no plan for that don't worry so yes you heard correctly yeah so just I'm sorry to see him go frankly yeah yeah me too he's great happy for him that he's so review of directive 14.2 and that came out as well from Laura. We also have copies of the original directive as it went way back so I'm not sure because it's my first meeting I'm not sure how much you are all aware of the directive and how it played out but originally directive DD 14 encompassed both the digital image and audio and video and it had the body worn camera all together as one directive and the folks that were looking at the body worn camera directive decided that there needed to be some separation between the two because the body worn camera directive was most likely going to have to be revisited on a very regular basis just due to legislative changes and other policy changes that may happen whereas the digital image audio and video section is most likely not going to be so felt that that needed to kind of have a standalone directive so the body worn camera directive I think you folks it was February 20th that you reviewed and adopted that as a standalone directive which is now DD 14.1 so it's its own standalone and then DD 14.2 is now titled digital imaging audio and video other than body worn camera and that may be the one that you folks have a copy of and basically it's all the same information that was contained within DD 14 as it relates to taking photographs taking audio recorded statements from individuals during investigations there are some subtle changes some things that really didn't apply now that we have digital photos rather than making copies of actual photographs things like that but very subtle changes we also took out the portion that talked about mug shots mug shots is actually referred to in another directive we have it is yeah directive six sorry yeah DD six so I think the plan is eventually there's going to be a new directive that talks about procedures involving arrests so arrest processing procedures and mug shots will actually probably be encompassed within that directive but that's a directive that will happen in the future the mug shot section is currently covered in DD six so it is still referenced but that was removed from this the other parts that were removed from this 35 millimeter stuff that I already spoken about so most of it's it has already been reviewed in the original DD 14 that you have all looked at I think previously so there aren't any significant changes to that the original DD 14 February of 13 was when that earlier version okay so we personally wouldn't necessarily have seen that okay yeah I mean that was yeah that was in January of 13 at the okay so this is already in effect though it is in effect because my understanding and maybe our can speak to this a little bit it it hasn't changed at all from what we had been operating under this entire time and because they had pulled the the part out about the body worn camera I think they've the they felt that it was appropriate to just continue using it under the new directive but then have the the police commission review at then at the next meeting so I don't know if we can add to that yeah the only change I mean there was a little bit of removal of stuff that was a redundant or be kind of outdated which the lieutenant just spoke about but the only thing really that it actually changes officer's actions is just and this is something I've been doing in practice already was as you start rolling out the body cameras officers would take sworn statements on scene before the body cameras they'd hold out an audio recorder to get this the sworn statement officers started default to using their body camera to capture that sworn statement but then when the detectives would follow up on those higher level crimes they wouldn't have immediate access to the body camera footage and so what was happening was some of these important interviews were getting lost for a period of time before they're available for that investigation so we've already started to direct our officers to during yeah to use audio recorder so this just puts that in words on paper so aside from that there's no real you know their words without you know without permission but you know if we're you know talking to someone in the building or something like that we can turn it on and record it I just I couldn't think of us and I'm sure you can tell me one but I couldn't think of a situation where it wouldn't be a good idea to record speaking with a witness and so apparently that's what you do well so let's have a like for instance there's a non sworn statement and that that's something that you know we talked about here it's just hey what happened today if we want we can turn that that audio recorder and it's easy for us to go back and listen to that maybe it's a car crash maybe it's you know a lower level incident where we're not actually taking a sworn statement those things come up and they they're handy because yeah I would think so any other questions about that I don't know if you folks had enough time to review it before you came tonight or when you were provided copies of that there's many significance of the couple of highlighted areas they were darkened in darkening those those additions is one of them section five on the second page I don't very last item relation yeah I think it's just driving home the point that if we have evidence we're not altering the evidence itself or we're gonna make a copy of it I think that's something that if someone was doing something the first time maybe they make a mistake there and while it might be an innocent mistake we would be destroying evidence in the case of public records requests oftentimes we have to redact audio statements so it's just making it clear that we must be making those redactions from not an original audio recording but from a copy so there are many times where we may want to the court may ask us to take just a portion of an audio and send that to them and we may just take a clip out of a long recording and send that and so it speaks to that and then the other one you know when we're investigating a homicide or a sexual assault that's the other part that's bolded I mean that's there's some law you know that's cited there that gives direction on that it's an important thing we don't want to blow a homicide case you know another instance in our directives we will not fire warning shots that's in bold that's another important moment in bullets flying around the city so it's it's something that maybe its placement is a function of the natural flow of the document but the bold is saying hey this is important okay we'll mess this up do you feel like you've had an opportunity to look at it and ask questions so do you need us to well I think the I think we're looking to have the Commission approve and sign off although it is you know it is something that has been in place since the BWC the body warrant camera directive was put in place on the 20th so we have been operating under that but I think just for formality we're looking for the approval of commission yeah thank you I you know I'm gonna go back to commissioners update comments I was able to attend the Queen City Police Foundation luncheon did anyone else make it it was fantastic it was my I brought some people from my office who haven't been before I've been before and the awards luncheon the awards luncheon recently yeah that was excellent so I just wanted to say that during comment period that it's just a really nice event to see Burlington Police officers recognized and it was nice and Laura did a great job planning it it was fantastic okay I don't think we can talk about item number nine update on Police Commission meeting encouraging attendance because I think that is Deputy Chief Burke and Christine I think they're working on that related excuse me I'm sorry if you are keeping you know no no no it's not you one thing related just we talked about encouraging attendance through special topics right we had a briefing on on UVM's drone program here where they use drones to do things like searches or for spots of fires for example University of Vermont the geospatial analysis right with Gerloth O'Neill done yeah he's fantastic so we've been reading about cases in which drones are used to make observations about a person in crisis again without having to put police officers in a scene not conduct surveillance per se but a case that was really compelling was a woman was in her car she was suicidal that she was parked next to a guy in the tractor trailer and he was afraid to leave because she was waving a gun around the police didn't want to get too close so they just monitored her with the drone until they realized she was like literally falling asleep or going unconscious and then they rescued the guy and moved in and you know we don't feel like you know drones are very very sensitive and in fact so the iron is it any regular person so to speak and just do anything they want basically with a drone but if your government you have a lot of regulations and then there's the suspicion of what's government gonna do with it you know it's they're gonna do surveillance they're gonna invade people's privacy but we're interested in pursuing maybe as needed having an MOU with UVM that if there's a crisis we're looking for a missing child or there's a critical incident we could we could subcontract their services which I think is a good way they're not going to come out and like help us do surveillance on people's second-story windows as part of an MOU or something but before going any further this you'll see where this comes into number nine I wanted them to actually brief the Commission and the public on the use of drones in Burlington by them and what they've done with the state police and with the state government and then at least it would broach the topic it would level set then we could have a discussion about what's appropriate for our city if anything so there's no plans right now to just acquire our own drones but I do I hate to think that if there's someone missing in one of our parks or in a forested area if there's like literally you know we're looking for somebody off the shore that we couldn't deploy something on by UVM to help look for them so that's kind of maybe have Jarlet come in yeah that would get a lot of attendance if I said there's going to be a Commission meeting on drones I think I get a lot of people okay so I wonder if we should put that it would be good if we don't lose sight of that for a future meeting yeah we were talking about doing that sooner rather than right would June be a good time I don't know yeah possibly I mean yeah I was wondering about having if he would be interested in coming to like the barbecue and doing like a demo there I mean kids would love it yeah it's appropriate but it might be a nice segue no that's a great idea and actually if we get our act together if we plan it for June then we can have flyers there at the barbecue where he is if he's able to come that's a come you know if you want to learn more about the whatever so maybe we can do that okay no no I'm sorry the morning this is so btv stat the starts like early relatively early in the morning just it's just a long day and I got up early I apologize it's not it's not you guys the vicious dog hearing could I could I just ask one question on attendance and this is more related to the televising piece of it because I remember a month I had been working on trying to get the funding and then I think it was a month ago we had cctv here saying that they had gotten some money and Rachel was here and everybody was happy and now I noticed Jim is back and I assume Jim is here as part of the cctv or okay I didn't know if he was part of still back in the peace and justice center doing it again and we had lost that momentum when I went back to cctv I said I'm glad we got funding and they said no we didn't we're just we're just paying Jim to do it okay but it's right that sounds right duty-bound okay duty-bound to silence clarification on that because I know Jim was doing it and then we had someone else last month and we thought that it was that they had picked it up so they have picked it up but okay okay thanks Jim appreciate anything else on meetings vicious dog hearing we are issuing a an amended order that should be coming out any day in response to some feedback we got from the parties after the order issued so it should be coming out minutes from previous Commission meeting did everyone review February's meeting okay do I have a motion any concerns changes second great all in favor great thank you next meeting I'm guessing a spring break I don't have my calendar in front of me so that'll take a few of us out of the picture I don't know Peter you I'm gonna be gone what's just a 24th is the normal yeah so at least three of us are gone and I'm not sure if Michelle wait are you guys here is everyone amen I'll be here excuse me that would be Tuesday the 17th that looks like it's fine should we make that change okay and then in terms of the agenda we'd remove that direct but I think it otherwise is pretty similar do we need an executive session yeah if you don't mind yes that's the discussion I need to discuss what it's for personal internal investigation discussing internal investigation okay so we're gonna go and do executive session okay yeah yeah yeah thank you now the secret society