 Art of Charmed Time Machine Johnny, 12 years ago, we started the show with the focus solely on giving men dating advice. Yeah, that was the show. And I know for myself, it's an area that I wanted to improve in. It's an area that I think a lot of men look and get that first bit of feedback that things aren't going well, I need to improve something. And if you remember correctly, at that time, the internet was starting to be a place where everyone started gathering information. And because of that, there was a lot of bad information for men on the internet about dating. And there was a lot of confusion. And it was one of those things for myself, getting involved in self-development, that I was quite appalled by. I was like, well, there needs to be a better, you know, and the thing is, when I was a teenager, when I was growing up, you like, for me, I was getting dating advice from Mac, some magazine or movies and TV. Yeah. And a lot of us obviously watching MTV and then the boom of reality TV, we're picking up these things from what we're seeing in the media. Well, so it goes from to that, right? It goes from that to just anybody being able to write blog articles and post them on the internet. And not all of those were coming from the best intentions. And not a healthy place. No. Not a healthy mindset and viewpoint. And honestly, when we started this, the focus was mostly on tearing the other person down in order to make yourself feel better. And, you know, we started and interviewed a number of quote unquote dating experts. We didn't really view ourselves in the beginning as dating experts. We were seeking the knowledge, but we realized that there was a lot of crap advice out there. And not much has changed in 12 years, unfortunately. We still get the same questions from men and women asking for quality dating advice on how to be the better version of themselves, not be someone else. Yeah. After all that time, we are still one of the go to places for that because people trust the advice. They know that it's science-based and it's coming from the best of intentions. And which is, which is great mission accomplished. However, because there is still that information that you can find on an internet that is not coming from the best of places. And we have a lot of young men learning these things in from those places. We have found ourselves in trouble and we've found ourselves in trouble. And it's manifested itself, I would say, in the partly, in the Me Too movement. And one of the questions now, rather than just, hey, how do I get a date? Or hey, what do I do on a first date? Some things we'll be talking about in these episodes. But it's prefaced with now that we're in the Me Too era, how do I go about this? And so that's a problem. And that is something that we're going to address and hopefully shed some light on. So that all of us can have this conversation because I think the whole thing has gotten completely out of hand. And I think a lot of it has my personal thoughts on that is that the media has gotten this thing completely out of hand to where they did their normal thing and have put fear into everybody. And now everyone's freaking out and the messages are getting blurred and we're going to try to fix that. Absolutely. And I think, again, a lot of the advice that's sprung out has immature in a lot of ways. And we documented our journey over the last 12 years of gaining maturity ourselves and gaining these social skills, which of course play a bigger role than just dating. But I think a lot of our audience has gone through these dating struggles. If you're listening and you're in a relationship, you may find some of this entertaining. You may learn some science behind attraction and what makes us interested in our partner. But ultimately, there are a lot of insecurities and misconceptions around dating. And I think the biggest one that everyone is now facing is consent. And we want to jump in and start off with a clear definition of consent. Now, Michael, who helps us research the show, he phoned up Dr. Amy Hassanoff, who's an associate professor of communication at the University of Colorado Denver and the author of the book, Sexting Panic, to talk about consent. And he started off by asking what it is. So how do you define consent? So a definition that I really like has four parts. And those are that consent has to be clear, coherent, willing and ongoing. And here's the thing. It sounds pretty straightforward. I think a lot of us in hearing that know, yes, it needs to be clear. Absolutely. It needs to be coherent, which again, in college, a lot of us get confused and struggle with. It needs to be willing. I think we all understand ongoing, for me, was the interesting part. Because I think most of us, when we think about consent, and especially as men, we view it as checking a box of like, OK, this is a go, let's move forward. But this idea that it needs to be ongoing, it's not something that you just check and move on from, but both people need to be comfortable with where things are going in order for consent to be reached. Yeah, I mean, the thing with ongoing is that as you're moving, as you're progressing through the relationship, through the intimacy that both parties are on the same page with that. And you have to be paying attention to the other person's expressions of how she's going to communicate that. And that's exactly what Dr. Hassanov had to say. I think that he is paying attention because I think when people really are into someone, they get this idea, I'm really into this person. I need to I need to take my chance and see what happens. And they sort of have this feeling of like, you know, I need to be brave and I need to do it. So let's say you've finished your drinks, you're out on the street. It's the end of the night. Someone's about to get in a cab or call a cab or whatever. If you are acting like a detective and you are being very attentive to the other person's body language and how they're reacting, you could say something pretty simple like, I really, I really like you. I had a really great time tonight. And as you do that, get a bit closer and maybe touch a body part that is neutral, like, you know, the outside of your arm. And then so most people at this point are going to just go straight in for kissing, right? But if you can have gone halfway, let's let's get this over with, right? Because they're nervous. And because I think they see the kiss as something to accomplish. It's that it's that mentality that, like, you want to get intimacy from someone and you just need to, like, get them to agree and you need to record that agreement. But that that whole way of thinking about it, it's not going to be good for anyone. It's not going to be good for you. It's not going to be good for the partner. You have to think about intimacy as something you you build together, not something you get from someone. You're going to be a lot better off if you think about the kiss at the end as something that the two people should be doing together. I love that. And I do think that intimacy is something that you're building together. It's not a checkbox. It's not something that we're trying to catch and move on to. But it's something that both parties are enjoying and building. Yeah, I think that's a wonderful way of putting that. And I know for myself, you know, as I was younger, it was easy to just think of those things as, oh, I got to get this. I got to get that and not really realize and pay attention to the subtle nuances from my partner. Well, once again, we get back into our our biology and what we are prone to do. And as men, there is a lot of pressure put on us to have this hero, heroic mindset, heroic intelligence, which is all about risk. And if you're unwilling to take these big risks, well, then you're not really a man. And we have to shatter that script. That is an old script. That script is going to get you in a lot of trouble. It's going to get you in a lot of trouble with the opposite sex. It's going to get you in a lot of trouble with the people around you, with your friendships. It's going to get you in trouble your own safety. And so we rather than looking at it as an heroic intelligence, we have to look at it as an emotional intelligence, one that allows you to to bring in other people, build intimacy with also allows you to override your biology and think through things so that you make good decisions rather than poor decisions and then look at the decisions that you're going to make on a daily basis on your health rather than the risk. Now, you're not always going to be able to get all the risk. I think there's a healthy balance in both of those. But at the same time, you can understand where heroic intelligence may have gotten you farther 150 years ago, where health intelligence now is what's going to get you further. And it's also going to allow you to create more happiness and safety and well-being in your life and purpose for that matter. And what I love that she said there is being the detective and paying attention to not only verbal consent, but nonverbal consent. And I think that's where a lot of us got lost 12 years ago as men listening to the advice we're seeing online, which was all about manipulating to get the result that you want, not being the detective and certainly not paying close attention to the nonverbal communication. And in fact, that's why we started the bootcamp 12 years ago was to hone in on our nonverbal communication. So the signals that are subtle and nuanced can give us clues into is this going in the right direction? Is this going in the wrong direction? Is this person comfortable or uncomfortable? But unfortunately, when all we focus on is the words, we don't get that subtlety. And that's when we become the oath. That's when we become someone who's unattractive. Well, that emotional intelligence is going to play a role in every aspect of our lives. So it's going to play, as I was saying, it's going to play a role with our friendships, with ourselves, with the romantic relationships in our lives. And those skills need to be developed. The heroic intelligence, that's biology, that's programmed in. Everything else beyond that takes rising above that primal. The crock brain, the crock brain and then thinking your way through things and that needs developed. And that takes time and that takes patience. And that's that's and if you're listening to the show, well, congrats on you, you know that and you're gaining. Yeah. And unfortunately, there's bad advice out there. That may get you that that check mark gets you the physical intimacy, but ultimately leads to regret leads to the other person feeling unsafe and uncomfortable. Well, this is why young boys get confused, because they can find information on the internet that feeds the crock brain and allows the crock brain to feel good of, oh, this is how I'm going to be a man. This is what I need to do. And it it feeds into all those inner intuitions that are looking to take control. However, it is that simple programming that is going to get you in trouble if you allow it to do its thing. We have tons of simple programming that gets us in trouble. How about the simple programming that tells us, hey, that McDonald's chi burger is just as good as eating salad. The whole foods, you know, is much better for you. But if I go with the crock brain, I'm going to get sick. And so once again, we're trying to override another primal system. This one just happens to be the sexual primal brain. And Dr. Hasanov makes a great point about that, Johnny. The problem is our sexual script in our culture is usually not great for anyone because it involves not really thinking about consent, not talking about consent, verbal or nonverbal, right? It involves usually men being told they're supposed to be aggressive and women being told, well, you don't want to be rude. You don't want to reject anyone. You're just sort of supposed to wait and see what happens. And you're also not supposed to make the first move. But there are plenty of women who would love to be able to make the first move. And it would be better for everyone if it was more shared, right? Like if sometimes the woman was the one who sort of leaned in and said, oh, your eyes are so beautiful or whatever. You know, yeah, I think a lot of guys would be really happy if that were happening because it takes a lot of panic out of the dating market. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's so it's a lot less common. Some women will do it, but it is so much less common because people are on a date and the guy gets the idea like it's my job to go in for the kiss. But he's not even that interested in the woman he's on a date with. But he just kind of feels like, well, this is what you do at the end of the date. You go in for the kiss. Yeah, I think she's summed it up perfectly. That's just what we were exactly talking about with rising above the primal programming, thinking our way through and making better decisions. Ones that reflect and incorporate both parties. And now that we have a definition of consent, which is just paying attention to what the other person is saying and doing in their actions. And it's continuous. We can start to move forward in a smart way. Now, we have to talk about the three dating markets because a lot of us may not even realize that there have become three markets when it comes to dating. In fact, I know growing up online dating was not really a thing. My dad wasn't dating online. Well, have you seen like the old 80s video dating YouTube videos where you had to like actually create a little video of yourself? Yeah, it's they're horrendous, but they're hilarious nonetheless. And it's thinking about online dating now, obviously with the apps and everything. And we're going to get into that. We're going to have some fun with that. But when you think about online dating now and and dating companies and and things like match.com in the 80s, it's it's not. It's apples and oranges. It's totally different. Well, now we're relying on algorithms to organize our lives to curate our music and what we watch to now who we go on dates with. Yeah, well, it's changed everything. Well, here's the thing about that as much as trouble as I am having with these algorithms and my own regular life on these social media apps of they're they're they're taking the fun out of life in that area. And they're also taking, I think, a lot of what's important out of dating as well. And we're going to talk about that. Well, I think the discovery component has become the most compelling. Everyone wants to see the new match, the new option, and no one wants to invest in the old options or the old matches. And it's creating this imbalance where these apps now have allowed us to feel this instantaneous opportunity, whereas I know growing up that I only had a few girls in class that might be interested in me. And there was a few girls at the watering holes that I was interested in. Outside of that, I was not able to get this many options in front of me. I was certainly not able to just sit around on my phone all day long and see beautiful woman after beautiful woman served up to me. Well, there's that, which makes it, you know, a very bizarre whole thing that we're going to discuss. But the other thing on that is you're seeing their interests, right? And a large scale, books and movies and music. And even like on Tinder, you link your Spotify playlist. But the other thing about that is you're missing the context in which these people are enjoying some of these interests. And without that context, it's difficult to understand who the person is. And you're only seeing the match. So you're like, oh, they're like me. We match on these things. Great. Your confirmation bias immediately starts filling in the blanks in ways that this person is like you. Right. And they have come to these interests from a completely different manner and experiences than you have. And because of that, they don't, though they're enjoying it just the same, it means different things to them. And because that's all gone and people are having trouble understanding why these matches are not working. And they're like, well, we match on all these things. How is this not a match? It's not a match, right? They're everything's different. And because the context is gone, people are having a hard time in making real connections. And this is why and I made and I mentioned this on the episode in February when we talked about dating apps. And I said that I recognized a difference between getting social media before I met people that I matched on and went out and and when I didn't. And it was it was hands down better when I knew nothing about the person other than we liked each other's pictures. And then we went out and we had a great time and we were able to create chemistry, which we're going to talk about today and how to do that. But but when I had gone out with all this information about the person because I had seen their stupid profiles on several different formats, it was all this information with no context and trying to connect dots. And it's like, oh, I saw you like this band. I like that band, too. We are friends. It's like, but without that, it's just OK. Now I have to be present and fully pay attention to the other person and roll with out being present together and allow connection and chemistry to be built rather than trying to force it because I had all of this information. And and it's funny because we people tend to see these things this is supposed to make everything easier. Well, we're certainly getting more options. Yeah, it's super charged certain aspects of dating, but I don't think it's ultimately led to us being more successful because we haven't developed the skills to use the tools properly. But we look at the dating markets. There are obviously friends and our social network. And we talked about this. Science shows most of us will end up with our mate through someone we know through a warm connection. And we tell all of our clients, men and women at the Art of Charm that in order to be more successful, you need to be building a social circle first. Everyone thinks I just want to become more attractive. I want to get better at dating. And then I just want to throw myself into all those options that I see on my phone. And they forget about creating a life that those options would actually want to be a part of having friends and passions and interests that these people and potential options on line would be interested in. So building out a social circle gives you more options. It also creates a life that welcomes in all of those options from online or from just going out and meeting people. So the second market is when we actually just walk up to strangers and talk to them. Yeah, the market that we create on our own. The third market is this online marketplace. And that's probably the one that we all lack the most experience and understanding in. And to be honest, it's become an arms race because these apps are coming out now with more complicated algorithms and different tricks and bells and whistles to try to get our attention. Well, as I mentioned in that episode, they're not about dating anymore for the people who created them. For the people who created these apps, it's they bought into the attention economy. They want your attention. They want to keep you on their app, just like all the other social media companies. Well, they've had to monetize your attention. Yeah, that's how they stay in business. And because of that, now they're they're putting in ads and everything else and keeping you on there. And it is set up in the same manner as sitting down at a slot machine in Vegas and pulling that arm on the one arm bandit. Yeah. And you get a match. And you get a hit of endorphins, right? You got you got a dopamine hit. You're really likes me. He likes me. This is going to be fun. And you open it up. Then you're like, oh, it's not who I was hoping it was. But I'll chat them up anyway, since I got a match. And meanwhile, the app's dinging. You got five messages unanswered. You got four pokes, three likes a wink. Yeah. And you're being fed a what I call junk food entertainment. And and it's empty calories just like grabbing a Big Mac from McDonald's. And that keeps you happy for about half an hour. And then you're pulling the arm again. So if we look at level of difficulty in terms of dating marketplace, I think the most scary is just going out and meeting people going out and strangers. And unfortunately, a lot of us had ended up in those situations out at bars, nightclubs, out at social gatherings and felt that pressure. I got to talk to someone. I got to make this happen. I got to get things moving. And that pressure can get the best of us. And that can make that dating market very difficult. In fact, it's what put us in business in the first place. Our own struggles in that dating market led to us creating this podcast, interviewing experts and really honing our skills romantically. Well, let's let's go back to that. I mean, when we started that started this, there was a lot of questions that we wanted to have answered, but we were also talking about one of the greatest and most interesting topics of all time, which is human nature that we're completely obsessed with. And still to this day, I am just as passionate and interested in it as I was when I'm confused and confused. Well, just as many questions as I had going in. And I think I have more every day, but it's a wonderful topic and people are very interesting. And there's nothing I I love going to the bar and just people watching. I think it's a wonderful thing. And you can do that anywhere because, well, I mean, people are very are fascinating subjects. And we also know that it can be the riskiest. It can be the riskiest place to meet for women. Obviously, when there's alcohol involved, there's consent issues. It could be the riskiest place for men to meet women. There's rejection and there's public humiliation that comes to that. So many of us have struggled in this area and ultimately saw some sort of support or help to try to get better, making a good first impression, attracting the right person and being a better option in general. Well, and when we got into this, I mean, everyone has to learn this stuff somewhere, right? Either your father taught you about it, your older brother, the kids down the block. I mean, and now the one of the things that's different now, the one when we got started in this is just how prevalent that the the internet is now. And it was it was just developing and answering those questions for a lot of people back then. And now it's the first place that anyone goes to answer any question. And because of that, people are learning things, lots of things, everything and a lot of different places and not all of them are coming from the from the best intentions. And we had gotten into this in the very beginning to give people an opportunity to learn this stuff from as we wanted to be from from the best intentions with our own journey with our own journey and giving people the the the messages and the information that we felt would be best in helping them because we looked around and we saw a lot of bad messages and a lot of bad intentions. And most, if not all of this is coming from rejection. This for many of us, the dating market going out and meeting strangers, this high risk market rejection is probably the first time we've ever felt it is going to be in this area. Many of us top performers, self development, trying to get better. That first rejection that that woman or man that you're really interested in and they turn you down, that stings. And that leads you online, maybe even finding a podcast like this. How do I get better? How do I improve? How do I avoid this from happening? And that going out and meeting strangers is one dating market. Developing out a social circle is probably the medium difficulty dating market because you got to go out and meet strangers to make them your friends. And then you got to hope that they introduce you to their friends so that you can have options. Science says we're most likely to find our partner there. The third dating market online is the easiest. It's the lowest bar to entry. In fact, many people on there are not even posing as them real selves. There's entire terms that have been developed around this catfishing phenomenon. Yes. And look where we're at with some of these. So it's like bumble for those of you who don't know is an app in which when you get a match, the girl gets the message you first. You're not you're not unable to contact her. Now, how amazing is that for the guys who just are terrified of messaging or that rejection? And what's funny about it is, you know, and I remember hearing about it and thinking, oh, great, girls are going to message you first. You know what the message is that the girl said? What's that? Hi. That's it. That's it. I was waiting for something amazing. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I that's usually like the message. You're like, hey, waiting for you to do something. You're now open for. And how well does it work? How often do you respond to hi? Well, it depends on how cute the girls. It works quite well. You know, that's the funny part about it. We often in these dating markets, psych ourselves out and tend to over complicate things, which is why we when we got started 12 years ago, we're like, we don't want to be dressing funny. We don't want to be doing things outside of our own character. And we don't want things to be too complicated. We want the process to be fun. It and we can make all three of these dating markets fun. And that's the thing. And this is why we put this company together in order to make socialization and every aspect of it, from whether it's that job, that promotion, getting the love of your life to make these things that are challenging, going outside of your comfort zone to make them fun. And they can be. Now, when we break down these markets, we put a lot of focus and effort and energy on the going out market in the very beginning of this company and really honing our skills on how do we make that great first impression? How do we get the conversation started in the right way? And we learned along the way a lot of the wrong ways to do it. A lot of the ways that can be arrogant, cocky, chauvinistic over the top that can raise eyebrows, but often aren't the most effective or charming ways to go about it. But at the end of the day, the easiest thing to think about when we're going out is the preselection that goes along with the venue. And I think a lot of us get frustrated with this going out and meeting a stranger market because we're just following the herd. We're going to the nightclub where we don't like the music. We're going to the bars where we don't like alcohol. Why? Because that's where all our friends are. And that's where we're told we need to go out and meet people. But it comes to meeting people and going out and meeting strangers. There are other ways you can set yourself up for success by going to places that you thoroughly enjoy learning skills and pursuing interests that you already have can set you up for success. Why? Because you're going to be finding people who share that interest with you there instead of just getting drunk and going to some random place to meet some random person. We can set ourselves up for success by being more strategic with where we're spending our time trying to meet other people. And it's so funny, you know, when I first moved to LA in nine years ago now, almost 10 years ago, the idea of meeting people outside of a bar was exciting. It was like, great, now I have all these opportunities. People are hiking, people are taking gym classes, people are doing more things. It seemed like New York was very alcohol focused. It was like the only way that we could meet people is if it was an open bar and there was drinks involved. But I think a lot of us don't realize that there are plenty of opportunities to meet people without any of that stuff. It doesn't take moving to a place like LA. It just that light bulb went out went off for me here in LA. I think many of us don't realize that we're just following the herd mentality and we're getting frustrated. So that's one of the main points we want to make when it comes to going out and meeting other people is understanding the marketplace and being strategic about where you're going, where you're allowing yourself to meet new people and not limiting yourself. Well, you're limiting yourself if you do not develop yourself. If you develop yourself, then you're going to have these skills where you're going to be able to meet people and your everyday life doing whatever it is you're going to be doing. If you do not develop yourself, then you are stuck following the herd in going having to go to the bar because, well, that's where you meet girls. And then you go and then you're dealing with the noise, the music, the alcohol, the drugs, like everything that's going on with it. And then, of course, because we're human beings, if you continue to do that, you're going to ingrain those behaviors. And then you're going to, of course, be influenced by the the stimulus that it goes along with that culture. And then before you know it, if you roll into your thirties in this manner, well, guess what? You're going to have a hard time crawling out of those behaviors. And what is one of the scariest things on the bootcamp is Thursday afternoon? Yeah. Why? Because we're challenging all of our participants to go approach people on the street during the daytime. And how many times in setting that section up for class journey, do you get pushed back from the guys going, well, how am I supposed to stop someone on the street? They don't want to be talked to. They don't want to socialize. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, once again, it's in order to develop these skills, you're going to have to go, you're going to have to go outside of your comfort zone to learn new things. And because you're dealing with people, there is a social consequences that go along with this. If things do not go well and it freaks people out. However, the thing that everyone learns is it's not nearly as bad as they made it out to be in their mind. And it's because of how uncomfortable they think it's going to be. It is the script and story that they tell themselves about what is going to happen. And in order to break through that script, you have to tell yourself a new story that's better than the old one. And this is what's great about this. And if you're interested in this, I would suggest picking up Lisa Wimberger's book, Neurosculpting. We've had her on the show. She's wonderful. And she talks about rewriting these scripts. These scripts are what are your behaviors. If there's behaviors that you that you are exhibiting that you are not thrilled about while you have to figure out what the script is, that is where these behaviors are manifesting themselves. Yeah. And for a lot of our clients, Thursday afternoon is an opportunity for them to change the script and go, Holy cow, I can meet people during the day. I don't have to be in a bar. I don't have to be out at night doing things I don't like. One of my favorite stories. And you and I were just talking about this was one of our clients who lived in Toronto and he he said that there was no there was not options in Toronto. He's like, oh, beautiful women, beautiful women in Toronto. Now, I've been in Toronto. I have to Toronto is a fantastic, wonderful, wonderful city. Lots of attractive people, beautiful people. Right. And so I was laughing because the only reason that he felt that Toronto was low in the market, it was because of the skills that he did not have that he lacked upon coming to AOC upon developing these skills. He went back to Toronto the week after program and he could not believe all of a sudden how many beautiful women are just walking around Toronto. Yeah, why opening because now they are he is there's no skills are in place where he has access to all these women in his league. Absolutely. In his mind, his new script is there are beautiful women in Toronto. Yeah, previously none. No, Toronto's dad because he didn't even see them as options because there was no skills were not in place for him to be able to access them. And this is why I love self development because you don't know what is within what you have access to. If you don't have the skills to access, if you can't see it, then it's not there. And I love and I say this to everyone during the week, which is you will find yourself doing things this week that you and previously you might have found your thought difficult. And not only will you be doing things that in the past, you found difficult rather easily, you might even be doing things this week that were out of your reality because you were in an environment that encouraged and supported you going outside your comfort zone. And if you're unable to see these things in your own life right now, that is because you're in an environment that is not conducive to you getting outside your comfort zone. In fact, it's an environment that is keeping you in. You mentioned something earlier that I want to touch on, which is herd mentality. We are herd animals. And here's the thing about herd animals. You have to orient yourself to the others around you in order for you to figure out how to act so you're within the herd. You can be safe. If you act up, other animals are going to put you back in place because if you act up, then you stand out, then you're a target. And if you're a target, you can't be standing next to me. No, we're in a herd. Don't draw a target on my back. Exactly. So there is a reason it's not because people are being malicious or they don't like you. It is because of the fear that they have for themselves, which they are acting out and to keep you in line. So you are not going to be supported and encouraged in going outside your comfort zone and developing these skills because you now are going to be a target and no one wants a target hanging out around that. No, not at all. Now, with this going out market, meaning strangers for the first time, this can be terrifying. We get it. But picking environments that are completely outside of your comfort zone and completely outside of your reality are not the best place to start. Finding some like-minded individuals, pursuing an interest of yours that allows you to socialize are easy ways to win, to start building out these skills and start connecting with people. With that, we want to start building friendships so that we can develop the second market, which is our social circle. So that as you are making friends with people, making a great impact on their lives, being a high value person like we talk about, they now start introducing their options and their network to you. You got to meet my friend. She's single. You totally love her. This happens all the time if we've cultivated our social circle. So those are two dating markets. Then and only then do we really recommend you throw yourself into the third dating market, which is the online dating market. It's oftentimes the opposite. What ends up happening is most of us will rush online because it's the easiest. It's the low-hanging fruit. Well, we think it's the easiest and we're gonna get to that. Right. And because it's the lowest barrier to entry, it's totally inside of our comfort zone. We spend an exorbitant amount of time wasting away on these apps. Not meeting people in person, not building out a social circle that's going to enrich our lives and give us those options and not getting the face-to-face conversations that we need to be good with the going out dating marketplace. Well, and they've also opened up to a new phenomena that we're now dealing with that is highly addictive, which is called limerence. Do you know what limerence is? No. Limerence is the addiction to falling in love. Right? So it's all the nice, fluffy stuff in the beginning. The heart emojis in your eyes right now, yeah. Yes. And so people now are able to chase limerence with these dating apps. Then the minute they see troubled waters or any sort of... They just scurry onto the next person. They scurry onto the next person because there is, as we were mentioning, the paradox of choice. There's endless odds and odds there's endless options of new people to fall in love with every day. And people are chasing limerence. And it is now this new social phenomena that I've recently had stumbled upon. I think it was an article in Psychology Today and they were discussing it and how dating apps have now opened this up. And because of the dopamine and oxytocin hits, you're getting upon falling in love for the first time. Well, who doesn't love that feeling? And why not chase it? And guess what? It's safer than heroin. I certainly hope so. And this idea of paradox of choice is it seems like there's this endless supply of people because these apps have literally, you can set a mile radius and now see options that are outside of your zip code or outside of your town. Think about how much that's changed the playing field for most of us. You went to school in a neighborhood, you worked in the same neighborhood, you had friends in the same neighborhood, your sphere of influence and your radius for options was pretty slim. Now it's worldwide. You can turn this app on anywhere in the world and you're gonna find smiling, beautiful people, poking you, winking at you, sending you messages and texts back. So this paradox of choice now has led us to not invest in other people, has created this addiction to limerence and chasing the next best thing and the fear of missing out has led us to this panic state of, well, why would I go on the second date if I could just dial up another first date? Oh, I can meet someone new and I can fall in love with her all over again for 24 hours looking at all of the bands that she likes and checking out her Spotify playlist. And along with this, there's now become this barrage of information that we bring into every date that's gone by the wayside as well. Yeah, well, you know, this is what I was telling people a few months ago where I had a completely different experiences by going in the date with all this information and going into a date without anything, just a couple pictures and the Spotify playlist, right? And they liked a few sentences on the profile. And as I was saying it, it made everything, the one thing that everyone is worried about and dating and meeting somebody for the first time is I hope there's chemistry. I hope there's a connection. I hope we have, there's a spark. And the thing about it is, and I hate to take the magic out of this, but you know, we're a science based show here. Right. And the chemistry and the connection can be manufactured if you understand how things work and the skills and that you need to develop and to make that happen. By being present in the date and focusing on the other person and catching emotional bids that we had done a show on with Michael Sorenson, I would check that out. This is why we do this show. So that you can catch this if you're present, paying attention to the other person and share one of the emotional bids and connect and create the chemistry that you're so hoping happens. And of course, as you get good at catching emotional bids, this is the magic and the chemistry and the attention and value that you'll be bringing to your partner for the rest of your relationship. And if you're good at catching these, then your relationship is going to be amazing because you're able to share and what's important for the other person. Well, I also feel like there's the physical attraction component that these apps rely heavily on. Then there's a bit of the, to the best of their ability, the compatibility. So you have the physical attraction, you have the compatibility of you likes the same things, you dislikes the same things, you enjoy the same bands, you dislike the same bands. In fact, there are apps all based around what you hate and matching you up based on hate alone. There's so many of these things. So they try to fill in the blanks with the compatibility, but then there's also just the temperament component that these apps are not delving into. They're not doing personality tests, they're not looking at someone's temperament and their fragile egos or their ability to have emotional resilience. They're looking at, is this person attractive? Do you have some interest? Great, here you go, Johnny, this person's perfect for you. And we don't realize that there's just more that goes into that equation. Well, as I was saying, there is a filter and experience that leads people to be interested in certain things. And just because I'm into a certain band and this person's into the same band, doesn't mean that we feel the same way about it or that we got there in the same manner. And so the context is taken out. And just because you matched up, doesn't mean it's going to work out. Now, in order to be well-rounded, to have a plethora of options as a technologically advanced single person these days, you should spend equal amounts of time going out to meet people, working your social network to meet people and going online to meet people. I don't think you should avoid any of the three. And I think as you work on yourself, all three complement each other. Online dating creates plenty of opportunities to send flirty text messages, to try out those emojis, to see what works for you and what doesn't, to test your sense of humor and to be cheeky and fun. The social circle is fantastic for meeting awesome people who may just end up being platonic friends and for really enriching everyone's lives that you already are friends with. And then the going out has a way of building some confidence in yourself. And the best part about it is those new options are more likely to join your social circle if you met them in person versus if you met them online. It's very, very rare that you turn an online connection into platonic friends. Well, that's the thing about online that I think that a lot of people miss. And we're talking about right now. How do you develop the banter and the flirty texts and all that stuff? Online dating is a great way and you just pointed this out. And certainly to be able to create chemistry, catch emotional bids, it's a very fun thing. But you don't know on the other side of that is, you know, as the person that is on the other side of that profile, are they taking it as seriously or not as seriously as you are? You have no idea where their intentions are. You don't even know who you're talking to, really. Or if that's the same person that you are intending it to go to. And let's be honest, do you know when a lot of people flip through their swipe right or swipe left on dinner? On the toilet. On the toilet. That's when those matches are happening. This is like, well, blip, blip, blip, blip. How'd you meet your girl on the toilet? And that's how you met yours. And it's a thing. It's like, if you really break it up, I was like, wait a minute. You mean I just went out with somebody because, well, while they were doing their morning business, they just. They liked my smile. When you... That's essentially, that's online dating in a nutshell. Well, and one more thing that on top of that, I mean, and when you go to the bank, you get in line, swipe right, swipe left, swipe. It's like, it's now, it's once again, we go back to the attention economy and it's just there to keep you off of dealing with yourself. And hopefully in the meantime, I might meet somebody cool. Now that we know that we need to diversify our portfolio, let's talk about texting. This is, I would argue, the most important form of communication these days, unfortunately. Yeah. I wish it was not the case. I wish it wasn't either. I'm sick of it. But unfortunately it is the most effective method of communication in dating these days. Do you remember when you got your first text? I do. I do too. And it was interesting because I had just transitioned from a beeper. So I had a pager. Oh, you had a pager. I guess technically those could have been primitive text messages because my dad would send me the codes of like call me back, et cetera, on my pager. And I knew I had to call them back. So that predated the text. But when I actually had a physical text to my little Nokia and I was all excited except I have bigger fingers. So I struggled to send a reply text because you had to triple tap the numbers to try to get the letters up. It was clunky. It certainly did not flow. And it certainly was very short. Yeah, I remember mine specifically. I was sitting at the corner sports bar. I was having a beer. I was watching a game and I got a text saying, hey, it was my buddy who's been, it was playing that evening with it. And it was, hey, playing tonight at the local 506 and it was 8 p.m. And I was like, what? And I was like, what is that? And like, but from there it was, you know, that was the moment that all correspondence had changed for me completely. Now, 12 years ago we set out to write our guide to texting. And we had a couple of coaches at the time. The whole team was sending thousands of text messages to all those very lucky women in New York City. Slit testing, everything. Nicknames, emojis, memes, gifs, everything under the sun to try to figure out what were the most effective ways to get these lovely women of New York City to meet up with us. And what we found in all of that research I think still holds true. Texting is really only effective in two ways. Playful, flirty, silly, not taken seriously messages and logistics. Unfortunately, many of us with text our default state is attempt to build rapport. Yeah. Share our details, intimate photos, trying to paint pictures and go into long drawn out conversations. Well, what's the reason there, right? It is if I could get this person to like me before I meet them, then the work that I'm gonna have to do in person is not gonna have to, it's not gonna be my job. Right, it'll be mitigated. No rejection if they already like me. Right. And what cracks me up. And even people who know this still think, they'll rationalize it somehow that they can make this happen. And I, it cracks me up. And the hearing the rationalization of what people are doing is, oh, I'm trying to get a connection. I'm trying to make, it's like that is going to happen face to face. And we've already took out and shown the research of even with things such as Skype and whatnot, we still need face to face in person interaction in order to pick up all the micro expressions that our subconscious needs to read in order to feel fulfilled on a human connection level. And let's think about this. There's an entire emoji keyboard. And what happens basically yearly, it grows in size. Why? Because we need more emotional context for our text messages. And it's funny because 12 years ago we came out of the book, we got pilloried because of the nicknames and because of the emojis. Everyone thought it was juvenile. Why all the emojis? You guys are being children. I don't get it. You need the emojis to convey the emotional context so that the text doesn't get taken the wrong way. And I want to comment on that, which is that you've known me for quite a long time now and I'm a very expressive person. And I find it difficult to write an email or a text without emojis at this point because I'm trying to express so many different emotions that my face is going to be able to do, that my tonality is going to be able to do, that you just can't do through an email or a text. And sometimes I have to stop myself because I'm like, this is a business email. Stop with the emoji. However, but I'm like, and I have to have this debate that I want to show this person that I'm excited for what's going on. That's what the colon parentheses means. I mean, it is, and what's funny about this is just how over time it has the evolution of this. And where we are at now, and I can't imagine where it's going to be in another decade. So if it's not playful, flirty, or it's not meet here, shows at eight, here's the pickup spot, here's my Uber pin, it really should not be sent over a text message. It should be a phone call or an in-person conversation. If you are sharing emotions, if you are sharing a story, if you are trying it all to connect with the other person and build rapport, text messaging is the worst possible platform to do so. And unfortunately, some listening right now are like, oh crap, I'm doing that right now with Tinder. I'm sending a bunch of messages back and forth and not realizing that just like SMS, Tinder is just a tool to meet people in person. And so I was, I was, you know, in fact, it might have been a few days ago I was coming over here, I was in an Uber in this, in the radio station that the guy had on had whatever morning shock, jock guys on and doing their thing. And he was talking about how he uses Tinder or bubble, one of the things. And they were talking about online dating and I was laughing because he was talking about that he'll start texting with the girl when he gets a match. And if there's a connection, then he'll meet out. And I was dying laughing because I'm like, how many opportunities did he blow because he was trying to get a connection through text? And I will drop another one. As somebody who has used these and continues to, it is to one text back, hey, cool, awesome. You're really rad, Douglas about your profile. Throw me your number. Here's my number. Shoot me a text. Well, let's talk. And what's funny about this, cause you don't need to make that connection of couple back and forth and it's your meetup. That's, that's, this is what it's for. Girls now even put it in their profile. Please do not message me. Just let's just meet up. They're putting it in the profile. Stop with this. It's like, why? And the guys for whatever will still try to figure out that they can make this connection happen. But it got to a point where I was, I was chatting with this girl and I said, hey, here's my number. Shoot me a text. And she goes, oh, well, you know, we really haven't chatted much about anything. I was like, yeah, we'll do that in person on the phone. And she writes back like, oh, right. I forgot. Right. And so we're talking, she was laughing. She goes, wow, I have to say like, I'm just not used to somebody being so forward. It was a, and it caught me off guard. But then I realized after talking to you, how much I just appreciate this. And I was dying laughing. And for, and I hear it all the time, you did everything right. You got the match. You sent a cute text. And then it was, let's meet up. Let's go out. Let's, here's my number. Let's get on the phone. And how fast it is comparatively to what everyone is thinking needs to happen, at least where the guys are trying to make this connection through text. Well, let's talk about the typical problems that we're seeing across the board with text. The first is just boring, same old, blonde text. Hey, what's up? How are you? No one wants to get those texts. And think, think about it. Think about, okay, 10 years ago where there was no Tinder, there's no bumble, there's no any of this. And online dating was, was a thing, but it wasn't as well used as it is now. This is, remember this stuff wasn't on everybody's phone. The, the, the, hey, what's up? That girl has got 30 of those texts and her profile today. Right. That's a sea of, hey, what's up? So you got to stand out. That's the number one. And the easiest way to do that is to showcase some silly playfulness and banter in that opening message. All right, let's talk about the second pitfall. A lot of times we see that guys get really good with being playful and banter-y and cracking jokes and using emojis. And that's all they do. And it's endless. It's endless. Everything's a one-liner. Everything's a zinger. Everything's a winky face with a tongue out. And it just tires on. It's like, come on, make her laugh, make the other person laugh, have a little fun and then move to the meet-up. Move to actually seeing someone in person. And this is something else that I wanted to talk about which is that the endless banter. And the thing with the text and the apps is you get the match. You have all day to come up with your zinger. Right. And then she writes back and then you have all day to come up with another zinger. Now, let's say you get great at that. Fantastic. You're the king. You win. How's that first date gonna go? How's that first date? Jesus in her waiting for the zingers. And you gotta excuse yourself. Go to the bathroom, Google it, pull out the textbook. You are screwed. And once again, this technology has gotten in the way of you making it. It's having a good time. Yeah. So we don't wanna be boring. And we don't wanna just endlessly banter. The last thing I wanna say is you have to understand that everything over text is read in a very dry way. So sarcasm without emojis, humor without emojis are not going to benefit you over text. It's gonna be taken the wrong way. The last thing I wanna say about text is from a logistical standpoint, be declarative. Let the other person know. We're meeting here. We're doing this. This is what's going on. The more questions we ask, the less likely people are to show up. So understand being declarative. Hey, we're going here. I'd love to see you. Pick you up at eight. Meet it over here. We're going to this show at nine. That tends to be more effective. Over the tens of thousands of texts that we sent over the years, those opportunities have given us a playbook that we actually now can say, start to finish. If you're having fun, use text as a logistics. Instead of asking, you actually say, hey, this is what we're doing. Allow people to join. You're gonna kill it over text. And that source of communication is now gonna become a strength in your dating life. With that, what I do wanna say, and we all have had this pressure, is when we're texting, because it's impersonal, I call it the troll effect. We will often say things that we would never say to someone in person. In the heat of the moment, we'll say something that we wouldn't say in person. Why? Because we're behind the screen, because it's completely impersonalized. So think before you text. Well, to go along with that, is even the witty banter and the zingers, if not done right, because there's outside of no context and you're working with just texts and some emojis, you're hoping to convey a certain thing that only tonality and micro expressions is able to convey. And I've seen people blow it because of the banter was just taking in the wrong way. They just couldn't figure it out. And that sense of humor is just tough to deliver. That biting, sarcastic sense of humor is tough to deliver. The last faux pas is grammar. Not using the right grammar, shortening the language. We're adults. We're trying to find other adults to date. Can we avoid all of the acronyms and all of that juvenile language that takes away from us being able to effectively communicate? So understanding that grammar still matters, speaking intelligently still matters, shortening everything to a place where I have to go to Urban Dictionary to figure out what you're saying, is not an effective way to communicate with someone. You're shaking your head, Johnny. You don't agree with my rant? No, no, I absolutely agree with it. I've written people off based on their text etiquette. There's that, but there's so many acronyms now that I have to look them up sometimes because I don't know what the kids are saying. And it's funny to me because at 45, even this week at the program we're running, it's a packed house and it's just wonderful. There's a couple of young guys who've said things and I'm just like, what, what is that? Like it's the new saying, it's like, oh, you know, I feel like, you know, I feel like I'm coming in like one of the, like, hello, fellow kids, how are you today? That is certainly a struggle. When you can't follow along with the acronyms and you can't decipher what the other person's saying, it's not gonna be effective. No. So to recap, to be more effective at dating, you need to understand the three dating marketplaces that are available to us now in person through our social circle and online. And you have to master communication over text. If you cannot text effectively, you're going to struggle dating in the modern world. So something to go on about that. We know we were talking about the texting and the zingers and how the guys won't stop with those because, oh, I got in good at it and I want to keep hitting them with them. Well, the exact same thing happens in real life when guys develop themselves and then are able to let's, it's when they work on themselves and then are able to approach whoever in the bar and strike up a conversation and get the girl giggling. Right, there is a power in that that a lot of guys don't get through experience. And when you learn that and you have this, you're like, you mean I could go up to anyone in this room and strike up a conversation and get them to giggle? There is a satisfaction to that. And of course, what happens when the guys learn that? It's the thing that they do and they can't get out of the banter loop, even in real life. And it's like, and the girl, and how many times have we seen it? The girl, he walks over, she lights up, they start talking, she's giggling, giggling, giggling. And then she's like, looking at her phone, looking for her friend and then excusing herself. And he's like, wait, I said everything you guys talk about on the show. I was funny, I was witty, I was humorous, I don't get it. Understand that that is effective communication for flirting, for getting the conversation going. But we're all trying to connect with each other. And it does not allow us to connect if we're using our sense of humor as a shield. Now, next week, we're gonna delve into the tactical how-tos to have those great, flirty interactions to be more effective with finding the right person, but understanding the dating marketplace and how to communicate effectively is an important first step. So here's our question for you. Where do you go to find that significant other? And if you are in a relationship, where and how did you meet? Amy and I met at Encore Beach Club in Las Vegas, Nevada on Labor Day weekend. It was actually Labor Day, David Ghetto was spinning. So that is my answer to that question. Let us know, we're always excited to hear from you. So send us your thoughts by heading on over to theartofcharm.com slash questions. You can also email us questions at theartofcharm.com or find us on social media at theartofcharm, Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. Johnny, I know you love reading our podcast reviews. How can our fans leave us a review? Yes, they can go over to iTunes, find our podcast and leave us a review right there. And I will read it and I will have a good laugh and then I will send it to AJ. And if it's bad, he may have a good cry. No, I may have a good cry. Either way, emojis will be involved. Yes.