 Welcome to the Ward 5 NPA. The April Ward 5 NPA. My name is Andy Simon. I am on the Ward 5 NPA Steering Committee, and I live on Focus Street, just around the corner. I'm glad you're here. It's a beautiful day. We will start with, I think we'll start with our usual introduction if you put that up on the screen. This is our beautiful logo that's done by Amy Radcliffe from Rockin City Graphics who are worked by a business person and amazing artist. You can move on to the next one. These are guiding principles. You might be familiar with them already, but we'll go really quickly through them. I added building community at Ward 5. That isn't our official mission statement. We were talking about it last weekend. It's sort of the guiding principle that we start from. We try to create a safe space for everyone. We make it as accessible as possible, both physically and culturally. Minimizing barriers to participation. We try to be respectful of differences. And value diverse perspectives. We try to make it fun. I mean, as fun as we can. And we welcome ideas about how to make it more fun and more inviting and more interesting. And we do not endorse political candidates. Next slide, please. This is the current steering committee. Billy, Joe, Terry, me and Nancy. That is going to change tonight because we're having steering committee elections. And three of those people, including me, are going to leave the steering committee and other people are going to come on. So going to be an interesting change. We have a website and T5.org. You can also get to us through this through CEDO. Our liaison with CEDO is Sam Heinrichs who's right here. And our liaison with CCTV is Charlie Janoni who every now and then pops in front of the camera and you can see him. Well, when you have a lot, when you have something to say, I hope you'll, you'll feel free. And then you can see it if you, if you want to watch it again, or if somebody wants to watch it for the first time and didn't make the meeting, you can see it on the YouTube channel for CCTV. Next, please. So if you're on zoom, and you are unfamiliar with it. You can raise your hand on zoom, you can mute and unmute and you can turn off your video if you're munching a big sandwich and you don't want to do that. Feel free to play around with that for those of you who are. Next, please. So here's our agenda for tonight. We start with public forum always. That's why we try to make it as as accessible as we can. At 725 when we finish that or whenever we're done with public forum. The latest will be 725 and we'll do our steering committee election. So we're going to give them another shot. So we're going to give them another shot. So we're going to do our steering committee is coming on from DPW to talk about the rail yard enterprise project. We bumped it off the last, the last time could be ran out of time. So we're going to give them another shot. So we're going to give them another shot. So we're going to give them another shot. The center and the proposed land on Flint Street, the DPW wants to buy. And, and the last part of the meeting. Open discussion about police oversight and public safety. This has been coming up a lot and we decided we needed to. Open discussion here at the NPA. There will also be, there's an upcoming. Meeting that a joint or enterprise with the ward five and ward six NPA. Is there a date for that? May 4th. May 4th. At the Greek church at the Greek church or online. I just wanted to give you a little bit of a brief talk. I don't want to be more publicity about that, but that's going to be a. Fuller discussion. Sort of public speak out session about. Police oversight, public safety, and, and related issues. And then hopefully we'll adjourn. Any questions. All right, let's do a quick. Let's do a quick discussion. And then we'll start with. What we encourage people to do for, I know it's a little small. I saw you squint. You can identify yourself. Say where you live. In Ward five. If you don't live in Ward five, where do you. If you live in Ward five there. And if you don't, what part of the city or world do you live in? If you're part of an organization, please identify that. We'll give you a little. Hello after the three. All right, public forum is open. Yes. Hi, my name is Barbara shot door. So I live in ward five actually on Shelburne road. And I'm here on behalf of the Burlington community justice center today. I have a very brief announcement of a new program that is. On board at the Burlington community justice center. It's called the conflict assistance program. And again, my name is Barbara and I'm the coordinator for that program. So we got parking noise disturbances, trash, animal problems, differences of opinion with property boundaries. Just maybe not getting on. But the things that you can do with your next door neighbor. Those are the kind of things that happen all the time. These are the kind of things that can impact your quality of life. As they represent the breakdown in relationships, or as we say in restorative processes. The tear in the fabric of community. So you think, wow, this isn't a big thing. I can. I can't ignore it. But you know, often what happens is that the small things become assumptions. They work on you and they become friction points that keep you from feeling comfortable with your neighbor. The conflict assistance program at the Burlington community justice center. It's a program that can provide a safe and brave space to have conversation with your neighbor. So that this situation doesn't escalate. A space that will allow you to get unstuck and go forward with some problem solving. A confidential space. And a space with an impartial facilitator. I like to think that it also provides a space that holds the community and neighborhood better. So what do I mean by making the neighborhood better? Well, that would be different for every single person here. But how about knowing that you are there for others around you. And they are there for you. These are the kind of relationship understandings that help bring people closer. And help develop our community. Happy neighborhoods. Happy residents. This is our first self referral. Program at the Burlington community justice center. And what I mean by that is that anyone can reach out to me. You don't have to be referred from a nonprofit or some social agency or the police or anything just. Neighbor to neighbor. Again, I'm going to reiterate that we offer traditional mediation. Services. Facilitation of difficult conversations. Coaching. Quetching. Just talking. I'm going to leave some placards here with my contact information and just to let you know, we have a great website. Burlington. Burlington spelled out CJC.org. I'm going to call text email. I like to think and I do believe I'm very. Accessible to people. I really would like to talk with you if you have a conflict that you'd like to have some help with. Thanks again for your time. Access. Through the website. Yes, there's a place on the website under the heading of conflict assistance program. I'm going to leave some of my placards here with my card on the back. This is the newer program. So it's not listed in the regular program yet. So I, I'd love to give some of these out. Word of mouth. I think it's going to be a good way for people to. Yeah. Thank you. Are there any fees for any of the programs that you just mentioned? Not right now. We have a grant. We have a grant that we have funded. We have a justice assistance grant. Jag Grant. And it is a pilot program. To the extent that we have grant funding for three years. We'll be working on how to make it sustainable. But the whole community justice center is mostly. Not available to everyone. I wanted to remind people before you go on. There's lots of food left. And. Prepared by it for read and the people's kitchen. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I would encourage anyone who's listening online. If you have an opportunity to actually participate. In person down here at 645 pine street. We are always going to have food. Before the meeting and. We welcome you to come down. Even if you have to go home afterwards. You participate in the meeting or take care of kids or whatever. Please come down. The dinner at 630. The next meeting is on May 18th. And. And we'll be here. So. And there are to go. Thank you. If you're online now and you want to trundle down here for the end of the meeting. You can do that. Sure. Yeah. So tonight we have some. Chicken satay and lamb satay. And we also have some. We have this salad called. It's like potatoes and tofu and some. Lettuce and cucumbers. That's addressed in peanut sauce. So. That's everything is gluten free and there's definitely vegan option. So. That's good stuff. I have a comment. Yeah. Okay. So I was contacted again by Dayton. I think that's how you say, isn't that probably the public works. Just as a reminder that. There's a battery street scoping study. That's going on currently to revise the whole battery street area. And they're having an open house on. May 2nd from four to seven o'clock at con toys auditorium. There will be a presentation done by DPW at six o'clock. And they're hoping that people will come to the project website. They have a survey there and interactive map for those of you. Thank you. Thank you. And if anybody online wants to participate as something for public form, please use the raise hand function and we'll. We'll do it. We'll do it. So. I'm going to go now. Anyone else for. Quick announcement to make my name is for read. I live in the five sisters. I'm a volunteer with the people's kitchen. Mutual aid group. That's weekly food distribution at South Meadows. In other neighborhood. We will be hosting a community feast tomorrow. To celebrate the end of Ramadan. Everybody is invited. And I'll be hosting a community feast tomorrow. And I will be hosting a community feast for leg mirror street. Starting at seven. Bring your friends and family and join our volunteers, our supporters and also the families that we serve. So please. Yeah, please come. Thank you. We're public forum. I have a question. Yes. I should use this. I just talked loud. You talked loud. I'm happy to talk loud. Hello. on Maple Street in the notch, the northern notch of word five, and it's still word five, I promise. And I am curious about the green belt management of of Burlington what is our policy does it have to be mode it can be plant pollinator friendly species. What happens if you have an anchor in your green belt for a utility line. I'm thinking really hard to stop mowing the green belt but I have some neighbors to convince and I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the red correction. I looked down on the Lyman Avenue area. And there's a number of people on that green belt to do what they want to do with it and I don't see there's as long as it's as long as it's needed seems to work I don't I haven't heard any complaints down there. I wish to chat with you. Yes, my staff the excavation specter manages the green belt policies and basically we worry about things like sight lines. So if there are, you know, things like sunflowers that are steering an intersection that will be a problem. And he is part of the public right of way, but it is the expectation that the adjacent property owner maintains it. And within some reasonable bounds. We want people to be able to enjoy it. Have you talked more detail. Great. Yeah, I think it would be great to have an easily accessible policy to share with property managers who are not interested in alternate management strategy. Great. Other public forum items online in the room. I actually have two. One is directly MPA related. Again, my name is Andy Simon I live on Locust Street. Two months ago, this MPA passed a resolution in favor of a resolution asking city council and the public works commission to name the new Shelburne Street roundabout. And that was with a transportation activist guide last year in Burlington and that was passed unanimously by the work by the MPA it also a similar resolution was passed by the word to three NPA and sent to the council. They attended the transportation energy and utilities committee to promote and talk about that. And there was some, there were questions about it and some discussion and some of them involved, Chip and Spencer himself about complications that might come up in terms of state highway. Whether there's a policy for name for naming infrastructure in Burlington where there was some concern that we don't have a policy for that. It continues to be at my understanding under discussion in the, in the transportation energy and utilities committee of the city council and some discussion with the city attorney. They communicated with the public works commission. And they seem to be supportive of the idea of renaming infrastructure. So it's ongoing I just wanted to give a report about that. My other saying, could you put up that screen share. Actually, I have a question. Yeah. So, it's come up a few times. So who owns the land. There's seven. So does that make it state land, or is it city link. Anybody know there's somebody in the room who might know that. There are two types of ownership of public rights of way one where there is actual ownership and then other where there's an easement over property and I know Shelburne street has sections that are eased and I don't know in this section the roundabout what the precise ownership is, but there as a federal highway federal regulations apply and so anytime you want to do something. So my second item is as not as an NPA steering committee member but as a member of a group called friends of the barge now. And we are organizing our second annual. We have a large canal which is right down the street on pine street. On May 6 green up day, and we'll organize we're organizing a big thing up last year we, we had 140 people came out, and even kind of test that we have mountain trash. And we're going to help haul away. Old mostly old homeless encampment. And, or the remains of encampment about how people. This year there's still a lot of trash to take out and we're going to be working on that in. And, but we're also going to celebrate the fact that we've taken so much power that we actually have time to do other things so we have an artist coming down to do some temporary sculptures with some objects we're going to do a labyrinth out there. And we're going to do a little graphic who's a scientist and an artist is going to do. Meditations with insects I'm not exactly sure what that's going to consist of but it'll be interesting we're going to do it rain or shine. This is our poster and I have little hand little flyers for it. And we'd love to see you there. Super fun site that needs a lot of love. And what will be good food and the people's kitchen. Thank you for reminding me, the people's kitchen will be there 30 one. So, we all know it should be a great day, even if it's for me. But hopefully it'll be nice weather. This little handout that I have and the one that's on the screen has our codes for the friends of the barge canal website, which is pine tree barge canal.org. It has code for Christian brevitt and any casual artist who's doing the sculptures with us. So, may 6993 comfort an hour or come for the whole day. And the people said, I'm going to get the year for an hour and they stayed the whole day. So, it's interesting to be down there and especially if you haven't come down to the barge now it's definitely worth a trip. We are also sponsoring a talk here on May 25. On geology and hydrogeology of the barge canal done by Dr. Graham Bradley, who's also the regulator for the department of environmental conservation, which should be really interesting. There's some interesting stuff that's going to be happening around the barge canal, but we're focused right now on on May 6 cleanup day. And that was May 25 or 26 and May 26 at 530 here for the lecture. Are there going to be other opportunities to be on that land, if folks can't make it on May 6. Absolutely. What we're going to do. I'm glad you reminded me of this is the first Saturday of every month we're going to do chores for people. We'll be talking about the history of the barge canal, taking people around the area just to see what's down there. There's an incredible richness of nature naturalized it is down there, despite the fact that it is contaminated land. But it's a beautiful place with beavers and heron and Canada geese and all sorts of birds and amphibians and and fish and animals and it's an incredible place. So yes, every Saturday of the month you're going to be walking tours. I mean, essentially the place is open but I can be a little intimidating if you don't know your way around or you've never been there or you've heard it's a super fun site and it's contaminated land. So, if anybody wants can't make it on a Saturday to worse we're also glad you're doing quick long visits to the barge canal. Thank you. All right, public forum is still open for one more minute. Anybody have any take one minute. Okay. My name is Joe Dairy. I live on Ferguson Avenue. Hopefully, hopefully going to continue on with the steering committee. So, we'll do our pitch for that later. Quite quite soon, actually, I just wanted to mention that. You know, if you live in my neighborhood down here by the south end city market, you might have noticed the jackhammers going off most of the afternoon. So you reminded that it's construction season. And there's a pretty good update on a whole bunch of the construction activities that are going on starting now and into the summer. On actually that you can find it on Champlain Parkway.com. Under the public outreach they had only that project but also stuff that's continuing with the roundabout. And it was all, you know, pretty, pretty nice listing of all that work that's going to be going on, including first for the first painting project, I think. So that's all I had. Great. Thank you. All right. We have a hand up Billy. Thanks so much, Andy. This is Billy Clark. I'm not going to be seeking reelection, but I did want to take this moment. Can you guys hear me? Yes. No feedback. No feedback. All right, well, that's, that's good to hear. You're all hearing if I'm not very well. What I was going to do was, Andy Simon has led us for so many terms for the steering committee. And so I just want to take a moment to thank Andy for all the work that he's done with Ward five steering committee. And just all the work that he's done throughout these many years in the south end. So just want to take a moment to thank you so much, Andy, for everything you have done and continue to do. Thank you everyone. So that's a good lead into our steering committee. We do an annual election. For the steering committee so everybody who is an incumbent is also up for reelection. This year we have, we have five people who are currently on the steering committee, and two of them are putting their name didn't just stay. We've heard from three other people and I guess now for other people who are interested in being on the steering committee for the next year, and our process is pretty simple. We ask you to either get someone to nominate you or nominate yourself which is a more common practice. And then just introduce yourself really briefly and explain also briefly why you want, would like to serve on the steering committee or like to continue serving on the steering committee. So, I think we'll start with incumbents. So first, my name is Terry Rivers and I live on Lucas Terrace just a couple of students away from here. I've been on the steering committee for a year now. And it's really been quite an education about what's going on in Burlington, as much as I've read the newspaper and you know, looked at Vermont digger and all sorts of different sites. I have really little idea of the amount of work that's underway currently in town. But the reason I really want to be able to steering committee, any captured at the last time that we met this past Sunday was that we're hoping that the NPA can really work towards building community has been building community for a long long time. And that's very important to me I think quality of life is enhanced your community building and I'd like to serve in that capacity. I also really like the fact that it's a non partying group. So that all views all opinions are respected and allowed to be participating in the, in the town's discussions so that's why I'd like to run again be nominated. Thank you Terry. I'll nominate you did you say you want to be nominated. So, again, my name is Joe dairy. I've lived on Ferguson Avenue for a while now since three. My daughters go to Champlain and Edmund so I'm very interested in school district activities most of the time. And yeah, otherwise I kind of joined up, I would say, I don't know six or seven years ago I had a break so I'm not turned out. You know, I was just kind of getting more politically interested at that point and even though as you were saying this is not a partisan body. You still learn a lot about what people have on their minds and of course all the development and things that are going on in town. I'd like to continue to be involved here and I like kind of setting up you know we do the organizing of all the guests that we have and also come up with ideas for what what we think people might be interested in. In terms of, you know, like this week we have the public safety topic, which will continue for probably several other meetings because it's a hot topic. Thanks for your time, and hope I can earn your vote. Thank you. So, we have two nominations. I, we have, we have at least four other people. And I think I want to go in. Let's say, proceed. Please just order. Roger. Please introduce yourself and explain why you want to be on the steering wheel. Roger Brassard had been a resident of the south end since 1951. At St. Paul Street Liman Avenue and Scarf Avenue where I raised my kids. I was actually in the on the NPA. I think it was 10 or 12 years ago, and I was doing what he was doing over there. So I did all the video work for this. And because of work conditions things and other things I had to drop out. So, I just think it's time for me to get back involved in and I care a lot about the south and I always have been like I said I've been a resident down here I wouldn't move out of this area unless I had to. But I think it's time for, you know, for me to throw my hat in and see what I can do to help this area get better. Thank you. All right, I'm going to, it's my perception in this perceived. My name is for read, I've been living in the five sisters for 25 years now over 25 years. I am interested in joining the steering committee. Probably I feel like I owe Andy now since I joined like five years ago and can serve anymore so feel kind of like to do it. And I do believe in the mission of the NPA. When it was first started, it was envisioned as this way of direct democracy for regular people to be able to influence the decisions that are being made in the city. So, I know like the participation has wax and we need it over the over the years, but I'm interested in making more participation may promoting participation from all our neighbors and not just the ones who are able to afford to come to meetings. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for coming out that the neighborhood planning assemblies that celebrated their 40th anniversary in Burlington last year, 1982. They started the next person in my perceived age order is Jason van Dries and he is not was not able to attend tonight, but he was thoughtful enough to provide a video. I can tell you that Jason lives in my neighborhood and on Caroline Street and has been very active in in the neighborhood and city politics. And I'll let him introduce. Hi, my name is Jason van Dries. I live on Caroline Street near Callahan Park. I'm interested in serving on the award five NPA steering committee because I've been involved in a lot of community projects over the last 15 years here in the south end of Burlington. And I've seen that they go a lot better and get more traction. If a lot of people are involved, both in figuring out what makes sense and in moving it forward. And I'd like to work with folks from across the south end through the NPA to do just that. I'll give just one example. I've seen an awful lot of places around the south end where is it isn't as safe as it should be for people who are biking or walking to get across the street or to get from one place to another. And I think those kinds of changes are much more likely to happen if we work together to identify them and then push for them. I'd love to be a part of that and to work with neighbors to help make all kinds of good things happen across the south end over the next few years. Thanks. At least at least in this, the candidates that I know of is Laina. Hello, last but not least, my name is Laina. I use they them pronouns I live on Maple Street, King Maple neighborhood in the northern section of the south end in word five. I have lived here for about a year and I intend to live here for a very long time. I can no longer afford to live in New York City, which is where I grew up. And I grew up in downtown Brooklyn, which over the course of my life was completely destroyed by development, which was bought at every stage by my community and by my most local form of governance the NPA equivalent in Brooklyn. And despite all of that work, developers did whatever they wanted with our neighborhood. And it was totally wrecked. So, provided the opportunity to serve on the NPA steering committee, I would love to fight for this neighborhood to remain a beautiful place to live. And this neighborhood become, you know, in even even more affordable place, and preserve our wild spaces. I work at the interval I run free food programs, I spent a lot of time thinking about how to meet community needs. And I would bring that to my service on the steering committee, also a wastewater treatment nerd, and I have read a lot of zoning codes, and believe I would be an asset in that regard. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to nominate themselves for the steering committee. I'll nominate you. I'm taking it that people who introduce themselves are effectively nominating themselves. Okay. Anyone else. This seems like a great group. And we can do this two ways. We can hold a formal vote. Joe is prepared to Google form for people online. And we have little pieces of paper for people here. And you could write down. All the names that I can tell you again who they are. And the other way, and I would like to propose this is that since we have the capacity to have nine members. And all the people who have self nominated or been nominated. Don't come up to that number. So I think we could accept all of the candidates by, by acclimation. And I'd like to move that we do that. Second man. All right. Let's go down. We're going on the style of voting or voting on the plan. We're going on the plan to accept all. All kinds of names with an enthusiasm with by acclimation. Please raise your hand either online or in person for that proposition. And people online. Who want to do that hand up. Who actually can vote paying attention. Unless you're putting your kids to bed. All right, I'm, I'm. Okay, thank you. Anyone opposed to this idea. Please. Put your hand up. All right. Anyone I'm staining. Again, it's my perception, but I think we've accepted. Me too. Sounds great. Thank you. Roger that we're having a meeting. Since I've contacted everybody else on the current. And people who had expressed interest. About having a meeting together. I'm going to do an old members on the 30th of April Sunday, the 30th of April at five o'clock. And that's a Terry's house. I'll send out a note. That's fine though. Great. Perfect. Thank you. Well, we'll move on. Thank you very much. Thank you. So. Sorry. It's a lot to talk about last time. So much to talk about. Yeah. I can tell you right now that it's not time to talk about. But I've asked. Okay. So I'm going to keep this real short and brief and then allow conversation after the end for questions. So my name is Corey Mims. I'm the project manager for the really art enterprise project. I'm an engineer with the department of public works. I've been here for three years. I happen to live in this ward, my very self. So it's always good to kind of hear you all kind of talk about the community and the things you do. So I'm appreciative of all of you and all you do. And I'm going to give a quick run through really enterprise project. As many of you are aware is the project that's looking to connect battery street to pine street up behind the rail yard. This is. Thank you. An ongoing project that, you know, has a lot of. I would say positive. So this is the project limits. As you see, you're looking at between. Battery on the west side, you know, very, very, uh, sort of Perkins pier. Um, and then on the eastern edge is pine street. As you go down and then to the southern limits of this area of review is down by, uh, What's the marble, I think in pine place. This is kind of the southern limit. So this whole area is being evaluated. There were three alternatives that moved forward from the initial Pell study. Um, that were being looked at and reviewed. You have the alternative one B two and five B. Uh, they, these three were following the initial Pell studies, a supplemental Pell that narrowed the number of alternatives down. These are the three that we are looking at at this point in time. And as we are looking to move forward with the process and hopefully get that submitted here in the next, uh, couple of months. Um, that is looking at the one B alternative is looking to be the preferred alternative that would be moved forward. So. Sorry. Yes. My environmental assessment, which is part of the burning process with. Um, The federal highway. And. Our state partners. So, uh, this is what was one of the anticipated, uh, variations of alternative. It looks like it would be a. Um, Um, Y intersection there at the, uh, pine streets. And let's see if I can. Yeah. Do this a little bit. So. Oh, come on. Yeah. So you look at, this is one variation of Y intersection here. Um, where the new roadway alignment would head west. Um, going in the area where. Again, come through the curse lumber. Uh, storage area. Comes behind the independent block building. Uh, would. Then wrap around and connect back into battery. Uh, orange indicates anticipated buildings. Oops. I'm zooming in and out and messing this up a little bit. Uh, that would be potentially impacted. Uh, with this variation. So, uh, that is the primary variation that is being moved forward due to. The vast analysis that has to happen for this process. Uh, we look at impacts. We look at traffic. Numbers. It's looking at environmental and historic resources in the area. And through all of these sort of considerations, this has come to the forefront as the alternative that we were looking to move forward with in this process. So I'm just jumping in here for a second. So we had communicated in previous public forums. That the decision about for an alternative. In terms of the intersection control there. On this. Bottom left corner. Would be. Um, decided after the EA. And, uh, based on conversations with. The federal partners and the historic preservation personnel. They're asking that we select as staff. Technical preferred alternative. And, uh, So from a, from a technical perspective. This, this alternative method of control of a Y. Is the technical preferred alternative. If it's decided at the close of the EA, that the public is not supportive of that. We can amend the EA. But they need to focus their effort on. Examining their archeological resources. And we can't have three various alternatives. At that intersection. Otherwise it would be. A very complicated. Analysis. So they won't, they were asking us to follow up. And what we've found is. Is this intersection method of control of the Y. Is the only one that actually allows. Uh, Vehicle traffic. That are entering into. Um, citizen cider and a postal service property. To functionally work without obstructing. Uh, Circulation through this new corridor. So that in large part is one positive. Reason why we prefer. Prefer this over the other two. The other is that. More traffic would be redirected. To, um, Battery Street. Down the rail yard enterprise solution. Or segment. Then save pine street where there's a concern about EJ community. So, um, those two things are really kind of heavy drivers to. Selecting this, this as a. Technically preferred alternative. But more public conversation will need to happen before it's really kind of. Resolve that is the final approach before we go to construction. But I just wanted to make sure it was a clear distinction here that. In previous public conversations. We were directed by federal highway. That we could decide after the EA. They're now telling us that we need to decide. From a technical staff perspective. What the alternative is for that intersection. You show the other alternative. Yep. So we'll keep going. Yeah. So this is one alternative. Uh, that was variation of the one, the alternative. The second, uh, again, is a similar roadway alignment. Uh, the difference here that this has a proposed roundabout being placed. At that intersection. And then. The third alternative, or variation of the one be alternative would be just a T intersection. Um, roadway alignment. Which you can see that. The prevalence would be to, to go up pine street, which I think most people would agree that. We want this. Some of that commuter traffic group. Is circulating in this area to really not go through the EJ neighborhood, but to go. Batteries street. And we really, we really want to look very closely at the roundabout, but. As I've said, there are significant circulation issues with. The adjacent properties. That really don't lend itself to being the preferred solution. It's not the archeological questions. It's the. It's citizen sire. And. There's. Yeah. Good. Sorry. Sorry. In regards to the roundabout option. Yeah. Specifically. Okay. So the roundabout option specifically. Yeah. There's additional right of way acquisition that would need to be done on the east side of the property. So you'd have to be looking to take additional property from the postal slash this insider parcel. In order to facilitate a roundabout of the proper diameter for the traffic volumes that are coming through this area. This would also require the installation of a driveway access directly into the roundabout. From the citizen sider and postal swap. They have numerous trucks a day going in and out of there, both for the postal service and citizen, as well as semi truck trailers that would have to back up into the facility, which means they have to drive into the center of the roundabout. And back up into traffic, which is a, I would say not ideal condition. Through a traffic analysis viewpoint. So, you know, those are a couple of the major considerations with that, that, you know, led to between the, the various variations. A different one being the preferred from a technical standpoint. You zoom in on it. Let's see if we can do this right. So similarly, they on the west side. Have. This would have also additional. Property impacts to the Curtis lumber property as well. Compared to the other alternatives. And it would take up a little bit more of the 30, 39. Pine street. Or the former DPW building parcel on the west side as well. You can see the annex listed there. The old street department yard building is considered a store resource. The annex is considered a contributing element to that resource. We've tried to convince. Others that maybe it's not. As significant historically is the balance of the building. That's yet to be determined what the mitigation would be for that. So any impacts to a stock resource building. Is an important conversation to be had. To select these prefer all terms. And there's a number of. Buildings within that area that's getting. That we're attempting to avoid. With this project. No. Questions for Corey and Norm. About this. Yeah, I had one question. You know, I really like the new roundabout that's over there in Shelburton street. It's working really effectively very well. You agree. Yeah. I think it's terrific. So I actually would love to see a roundabout there. Is there another way. That we can have those businesses enter and exit their property. We've tried to find ways and. Given the. Approximity of that. Those properties to that roundabout. I. The consultants have not found a solution that works. I've met with the property owners. As well as the tenants currently on the parcel. The issue being is that there are buildings, both on the north side and on the south side. And we've tried to find ways. To modify that. That we've used the same approach that was made with that. That was on the east side of the parcel. The issue being is that there are buildings. Both on the north side and the east side. And then a separate property. On the south that the. Only way to. Modify anything is on that western edge that faces pine. If you put a roundabout in it's going to be. Flat right in front of there. So. Even the roundabout showed. A variation to their existing entry and exit. where they can't change how they enter and exit their facility. But we still have time. This is a staff initiated selection in order to allow review to continue. But we have gotten writing commitments that we can have further conversation. Conversations will continue and potential selection of the different intersection alternative. If that is a little. Where will those conversations take place. We will have further public meetings, which would be a project specific meeting, which we've done previously to allow for community members to come in and speak on behalf of, you know, their thoughts on. The EA as well as the, the designing of the project. As a retired large vehicle driver, I would hate to have to back into a situation like that. That's the way to go. And it depends upon the EA said is supposed to hopefully be finalized to be submitted the next few months. And then once that process goes through, we would be looking to get a meeting scheduled. So I wouldn't say, you know, summertime, we might have a better idea of a date range for you. Yeah. No. And the projected construction. Well, at this point in time with the process that needs to occur, you know, if things start clicking the way that some of the things we're looking at are, we have some positives. So it's still to be termined. You know, it's going to be a couple of years probably before you could break ground at the earliest with permitting and everything else that needs to go through for the filing of design. So worth noting that in advancing this project. There's various archaeological sites in that area and district that requires further study, which is, we thought we would be able to do some of that further study in the fall. But it got too late season and when it gets late season and you're doing archaeological digs, frozen conditions doesn't work. And so they're rescheduled scheduled to do additional archaeological study come May. So that is, and without that information, this EA can't move ahead until that's fully vetted gathered and understood. And as a result, we're somewhat behind with the environmental assessment and getting it to a stage where it could be publicly shared, and then hopefully at some point, Federal Highway would adopt or accept the EA as final. So there's, there's a lot of work still work to be done. We've done a lot of work in terms of this alternative with variance to kind of fishers itself through all the historic resources, archaeological resources, and not have impacts in businesses that exist. Well, limit the amount of impact the businesses that exist there. So there's a, it's a very, it's threading a needle. We are having significant conversations with from our rail systems has been very cooperative. But worth noting, much of the property things that would be required for this are within the state owned rail yard. And as you know, city cannot condemn state property. So we have to have the cooperation of VRS in the state in order to kind of move ahead with this proposed alternative. And that will require the same so it's either they can accept what we're proposing, or we really don't have a project. More needed to this discussion are there a quest more question for Corey or normal. Thanks. I know earlier with the champagne parkway I'm really curious about the relationship between the two projects I know that obviously the champagne parkways underway and this is still in the early stages of planning and scoping. It does seem like there will be tremendous traffic impacts from the champagne parkway emptying out onto pine stream before this traffic diversion is in place, maybe a couple of years even. I mean, if there are plans to address that issue, are there going to be like, can we get a light on Maybelline pine before 2026. And we, you know, have some traffic thought there's, I'm curious about interim strategies to mitigate the negative impacts of the champagne parkway without this. So the champagne parkway project as it's designed, we are currently under construction with just one phase of it, which this phase is being constructed currently would not be included or introducing any new trafficking into the area. You know this was done intentionally with council support in order to move forward with our obligations we have our state and federal partners, as well as to progress on the improvements in the south end communities. Understanding that yes, the the breaking up of the project would not have those impacts that would be seen of increasing traffic volumes in the area. And then when the final construction contract is approved for construction by the city council, that would be the installation of at this point time per the plans for the parkway would be traffic signal and installations at the maple and King straight King street intersections of pine. And they're, you know, improvements along that corridor as well as the connection to 189. And so those installations would be done and then the champagne parkway project would be fully completed and open potentially open to traffic at that point in time, which, you know, that's still again, a ways down the rate that we're trying to see if we can try to get the this project. In a good place that, you know, those things can kind of be running simultaneously that final construction contract and this project. So there's, there's a possibility that the champagne parkway parkway will not actually be online until this is. There's there's a chance that the time frame could end up being such that yeah. I think council is expressed very clearly to us that they will not necessarily support advancing phase to the champagne parkway till there's significant progress with a rail yard enterprise project and we're trying to work diligently to have this advance in a timely manner, such that our federal state partners aren't going to challenge us with the completion of phase to the parkway so it's, it's some. It's, it's a challenge but we're working really hard to make it all fit with both our federal state partners and our local community in our council. So. Thank you. More information and people wanted online and. Yep, really art enterprise.com so see. Yep. Yeah, you can reach out to myself Corey Mims or go to the website really enterprise.com to join the mailing list and get additional updates. As they're, you know, as we have more information. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you for having us. I'm going to pick up all the bags. Should I share the presentation. Yes, please. Look at mine. I'll taping is doing that I'll introduce myself, Lee Perry, I'm the division director of DPW maintenance. So, one of the departments under my purview is the street department as well as fleet maintenance and the recycling program. Excellent. Well, we're really excited to be here. We know there's limited time here so we'll jump right into it. We're here to talk about really how we saw two major issues and he's going to run most of it and I'll finish up, but I think generally there's the problem statement. There are two major issues that we at DPW receive to solve here. One is that the Chittin solid waste district didn't have in the city a full service drop off center for us all to use the current organics only collection is too limited for the population of which I am also a word by resident. And then the second piece is that we need a place to responsibly and efficiently manage the city soils. Anytime we have a water main break we're digging up soils. Anytime we're replacing a catch basin we're digging up soils and the reality is we don't have great places to do that, which were the increasing regulation around soils and managing soils properly. So that's really no problem. So we take away. Sure. So this next slide here shows an overall map of the south end area. The location to the north the red stars the 339 pine street, which is currently our soils management area as well as the drop off center for Chittin solid waste district. And the most is the 195 to one Flynn Avenue parcel. And how do we meet these needs by purchasing the 195 to one Flynn have, you know, give us the ability to this shape and mention provide space for a permanent location for our city soil management. Not only is it displaced material from construction projects. It's also our street sweeping material that swept up throughout the year as well as material as removed from catch basins. So it's all grit material that also is currently stored at 339 pine street. Second point, enable CSWD to expand the drop off center by us moving our soil management area. Chittin solid waste district will be able to expand the current facility to the north to open up services to more streams. So it will be up space to better accommodate the future row yard enterprise project that we just saw one of the alternative routes is coming through that 339 pine street, which also that south northeast corner is where we store all our pipe for pipe repairs for sewer line storm lines are concrete catch basins manholes and materials like that. So that would be impeded by the really our enterprise project. So that would also be moved down to 195 to one Flynn have. It gives the city and CSWD the option. Long term to locate expanded service or modern drop off center, either 339 pine street or Flynn Avenue. So by expanding they can open it up to more waste streams. As you'll see on a future slide that, you know, a conceptual design shows a possibility of four lanes going through, which is a lot more than what we used to have prior to the pandemic. Initially, they will start it off as two lanes and as customer throughput either increases or not, then they'll phase in more lanes. Secure additional enterprise land for current and future municipal operational needs. We're maxed out here at 645 pine street their equipment storage is full parking lots are full. We've moved other employees down and merged departments. This would facilitate moving a lot of our equipment that we aren't using in the off season out of here to make room for the equipment. We do have as well as, you know, it'll keep it centralized in one place rather than we have to store a piece out a new north end, you know, just because we don't have the space. And it'll accommodate interest in the interval to repurpose water distributions existing soils management. So water resources is another department they have displaced materials from water main breaks. They are currently storing their soils in a not ideal place down at the interval. We would consolidate both departments soils management in one area. To mention our soils management we store them on site we like I said we have the sweeper down. So what we do is we take those soils and the sweeper dumps and we basically compost the sweeper dumps, combining with the soils we have in screen them and we create our own top soil with it. So we don't, we don't have to buy top soil for restoring what construction projects that we do have. So that's, you know, one bonus. Yep, I'm going. A lot rolling through here. Okay, so that is a different. I believe different route of the rail yard enterprise project comes a little bit more to the west. You can see the yellow outline is the expanded or the proposed expansion of the drop off center. That is currently where our soils are. This is a conceptual design I was speaking of an expanded drop off center. It would be condensed down the two lanes rather than the four with a possibility of phasing more lanes in and accepting more materials such as organics I already accept metal trash recycling leaf and yard waste. And this is the two 195 to one Flint Avenue, the two parcels from parcel does have a building. That's where we would set up our storage bins for soils management, as well as any gravel stone. A pole barn or pipe storage for both the street department and the water department, as well as storing our concrete catch basins manholes and those materials in that area. Jamie, do you want to take it over. There's been a long history here back in 2001 CSWD bought this land 22 years ago, in order to set up a drop off center. And here we are in 2023 without. This is in large part past decisions past long time ago with thoughts of developing this in coordination with Champaign Parkway obviously it's taken much longer to get the parkway to construction. This site will be really on and off the parkway without having to travel through residential neighborhoods, which is significant for reducing truck traffic impacts and residential areas. There's been a whole history process where CSWD's got frustrated, the slow pace and threat to sell sell the property on the open market. Through a lot of efforts on these part of my part we've been working to build relationships and try to say look, we're wanting to work with you, we are good partner, we're making progress together. But we have a deadline June 30 2023 where our option to buy this property expires. We've had it expire. We've had it nearly expire four times we've had at least four extensions. The board and CSWD is wearing a little thin they want to see action. So we are proposing to negotiate a purchase and sale for 195201 Flint Avenue, so that we can move our soils and unite them and manage the better and give our community two options for whether drop off center would be more catered. If we don't act, we've paid $100,000 in option payments to preserve the right to buy this property. We lose that we likely have a long term limited drop off center of just organics in the city. We would be managing continuing to manage soils at two different suboptimal locations in the city, and we would continue to store a lot of our municipal valuable equipment outdoors. We would be more constrained in accommodating the Royal Yard Enterprise project and not be able to well accommodate future service expansions. So, what's our timeline looking like we're here tonight, where our goal would be to bring a draft purchase and sale agreement for Flint Avenue to the Council's transportation energy utilities committee next month. The Council's approval of the purchase and sale agreement in June. Purchase and sale agreements as many of you know is not necessarily the transfer of the property but agreement in the terms of how you're going to proceed with the transfer of the property so give us time. Make sure the soils are contaminated in any way that we're not aware of so we're not taking on a liability. Not familiar with making sure the wetlands delineations indicating that the site could be used how we want to use it, etc. And then hopefully by this fall we would get the actual property transfer executed to allow for an expanded drop off center either this fall or next spring at 339 Pine Street. That's our contact information, a lot of information here a lot of moving parts we're trying to coordinate in order to make life better and more sustainable so thanks. Thank you. Thanks for your thanks for that. Because he took over. There are questions. I seen there a question. Who runs the drop off center is that the city or CS Chittenden solid waste district. The way their model works is that solid waste district asking each post municipality and as you know they're going to both centers across the county that each town provides land, a dollar a year to CSWD, and they run the operations on that property. So it kind of seems bizarre to be the own the land now. Why are we having to rush around in order to develop a drop off center by CSWD. The quick answer is, they don't want to be in a property owning business. Their job is to own man drop off centers they want his polity to own the land, and they come in and operate. So they really want us to buy it, which frankly also helps us with other things like soil management. So the short term or potentially even the long term there's not going to be an impact in service at 339 fine. Like also will still be able to drop off compost there for the foreseeable future. Yes, there will be a disruption when there's actually site improvements to expand it, but we're not going to fall. No, our whole goal is to get it under again as a neighbor here every time I have to drop leaves off or trash. I'm going to run all over the place when I'm driving right by drop off center. And the questions online. Can't see you so let me exit. I have a couple of why the CSWD only that man. Because as Chapin just explained, the member community donates the land to CSWD we didn't have any land so they we had 339 Pine Street which was constrained so they bought that property with the intent of us buying it and leasing it back to them. So originally as the option payment was it was a an option to buy it now it's a we're outright buying it. It was the most contentious vote at CSWD probably in their history it was a very tight vote. They most communities like why the heck are we helping CSWD buy land for Burlington. And it was really a power play because at the time 339 Pine Street was going to be the location of the Champlain Parkway when it went through the rail yard. So, thank you they hadn't yet somewhere else and we didn't have other land. In this world is crazy. And it's a long portrait history but we are where we are in South Burlington wasn't going to let Burlington residents go to the South Burlington drop off center. You know, my other question is at the, at the 339 drop off. Saturday morning, drop off a line of car back up idling the way to get into this very narrow. Right. Are we going to include that when we when you redesign. Yeah, it's prior was an irregular traffic pattern. You had vehicles Chris crossing trying to get in and out of the place by expanding to the north. There's a lot of traffic and they'll they'll go at a normal counterclockwise so go in this side they're going to move the booth over to this end they're going to have more queuing space from Pine Street up inside the drop off center in the expanded portion and by adding those lanes you'll be able to see the cars there and it'll just be a much more efficient traffic pattern as well as a safe traffic pattern. One other quick thing, realizing those like we're talking about driving so like we walk to take the compost and like right now like it's, I've never seen this line of cars I guess I just go at a different time of day it's usually empty but it's really hostile for like pedestrians like as like a center like a pedestrian waste drop off like bringing compost or whatever is there potentially rooms like make it a little bit more pedestrian friendly or for someone who's not coming to drop off waste in a car. Correct me if I'm not originally I thought it was set up as more of a pedestrian bike drop off center. I mean the way it was set up. I have seen a lot of bicycles a lot of people do you know on their lunch breaks, bring down. You can it's just really uncomfortable as a person I think I think is rerouting that traffic pattern around rather than crisscrossing it'll make it a lot easier. There'll be options to at least have kind of a safer stay on the right and post having to walk through traffic to get into the game. I have to say that one, one time I brought my garbage on my bicycle to the 339. And there was a long line of cars and I drove past I'd like to pass the car and went up to the gate and the person who I went past the last person yelled at me and said that I was an elitist because I was going by the car. And I think a lot of the problem before too was they had the open dumpsters so you had a lot of people that were like look he lose going in looking for treasures you know and these will be closed compactors so you won't have that aspect of a one of the people me entering around the yard. No. Never going to bring back the reuse zones. There is a reuse zone actually down at resource adjacent to adjacent to the drop off center so if you go in resource they do have a section there that is a reuse zone. Thanks for allowing us to come do encourage folks to get involved to the upcoming public meetings that we just talked about. We know that the future of what exactly happens at the Flynn Avenue site is still to be developed, but we fundamentally if we don't secure the property rights, we lose the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us nice to finally meet you in person. I've been in general and picking up all our trash that we find that there's a part of the community. Yep. So, I want to say that, yeah, literally, and Gabrielle seven our state representative for this district wanted to attend tonight but are stuck in my tenure with state business so we're not able to attend but sent me a text to that effect. To that effect. The rest of our meeting is a discussion. And we do have our two city councilors Ben Travers and Joan Shannon here. Thank you for attending. Our idea was that, you know, with this continuing discussion of question of public safety and police oversight. There will be several opportunities to express an opinion or ask questions about this issue of police oversight and a bigger picture questions of public safety. And the ballot question that came up in March, proposing a community control board was completed. There was a lot of discussion about it. The city council in fact, voted a resolution before the vote, urging defeat of the resolution or passively and urging defeat of the resolution, and, and proposing that after that, after such defeat happened there would be a wider community discussion. So this is part of the wider community discussion. There will be, as we said before, a discussion, a longer opportunity for her speaking about this on May 4 at the Green Quarter Deluxe Church at what time? It's a six o'clock on May 4. We're going to take a rest of this meeting basically to see what people are thinking about these questions and we came up with a couple of questions to just propose as discussion comes. And then we'll move on to what staffs by the city council, by the Burlington Police Department, or by their own residents, we've contributed most to public safety in this city. So, broadly speaking, and specifically if you have specific ideas. The other question is the one that has circulated around in terms of police oversight, how should the conduct of the Burlington Police Department be supervised, should there be civilian oversight, by whom, and with what authority and accountability. So, we'd love to have your thoughts. We'll certainly give Joan and Ben a chance to talk about this too but I think we'd like to have other people either online or in the room. Share your thoughts about any aspect of this, and we're going to give it 25. I know that when we open discussions, often when we open discussions, more open community discussions in the, in the NPA, there's a certain reluctance to start the ball rolling, but when the ball starts rolling, it's really on this topic. And we don't want to stop it, but we do have time constraints. So, think about overcoming any, any reluctance or shyness. And jump right in, please. So I was part of the campaign for question seven for the control board. And one of the information that we kept herring from the other side is that this would, this board would have unprecedented power to overrule the decisions of the chief, which is not correct. It's not unprecedented because currently in the city charter, the police commission could overrule the chief's disciplinary decision, but it just so happens, they can only do that, following in response to a grievance that was raised by the union this effectively put the police commission in a very awkward place in that basically they would be, they can, they can overrule the chief on behalf of the union. I don't think this is, this is sustainable. I don't think this, and I think any, any reform effort that serious is going to have to involve a charter change. To that effect, I would propose that we look into putting parity between the police department and the fire department in the fire department city charter section. The city council actually is empowered to discipline up to termination in consultation with the chief. Any member of the fire department that is that requires disciplinary process. So, I think it's, it's right that the city council should have that power. And I know when police use violence to promote order or to punish a violator, even though it's not our hands that are doing it is not our fingers pulling the trigger morally speaking because they are we authorize them to do so that's our hands that are hurting people. So, I would propose that we make the process for discipline. Between the police department and the fire department. Thank you. Yes, my name is Jack Tiano on St. Paul Street on the word five side. And so I wanted to kind of just bring my lens to the larger like public safety discussion. And just from my experience, I have not I've lived in Berlin since 2011. I moved here as a student but I have seen felt a decrease and overall decrease in feelings of crime or, you know, public safety or I guess an increase in public safety as time goes on I know that that's been a contentious point from how I'm hearing members of the community feeling about recent years. But like what's the one one aspect of that that I wanted to my lens is as I've said already is as a pedestrian. I don't own a car. I do that on purpose. I feel like I don't need one. And so as someone who is walking through the city every day. I feel like I see more of the city I feel like I know more of my neighbors even if I don't speak to them. You know, the radius of who I see on a daily basis is maybe different than if I was driving to different parts of the city. And so like my my overall perception of safety is, is higher. And so in addition to that I feel like there's a lens of kind of how does our housing crisis play into the perceived and maybe you know in actual ways different types of crimes that might be factually occurring more frequently. And so thinking about how does how does our housing decisions. How is our zoning play into this like, you know, I live on on St. Paul Street which is busier. There's a lot more eyes on the street there's a lot more motion I've never felt like anyone would be, you know, trying to break into my front I've never felt that that would be possible and I've never experienced that or seen anyone, or heard of anyone on that street. Having that happen in the way that some of the kind of darker and like single family neighborhoods where that's more possible where there's more space between the streets there's less street lights. So, and even if those things aren't happening more frequently. It's the perception that they could. So I just kind of wanted to voice the way that the way that I, I see how these these different things that might feel unrelated actually play into tangible and perceived public safety issues in general. Thank you. Thank you. Other other comment. Other perceptions around public safety issues around police oversight. Certainly there are many aspects of this question I'd like to hear them we'd like to hear them all. When I think of the public safety there's things that I think about, think about housing as Jack mentioned, I think about ours and pedestrian these and going safe on the street, without kids being able to get to school. They can't see the pickup truck, they can't see them over the windshield. I think about people being able to eat food that it's going to nourish them and keep it healthy, and being able to read it. There's so many things that make the public safe. The police are not anywhere near the top of that list when I imagine what public safety really looks like. We have given the police for so many jobs. I can't imagine being trying to do all of those jobs. Certainly, if people have firearms. They are going to see escalated public safety situations, but the vast majority of public safety situations that the police are responding to are not really situations that police are trained to respond to in a way that is sufficient and effective and actually keeps people safe. So, when I think about what we need to really have a safe community, think about mental health support that is paired with support housing that is paired with drug rehabilitation services, which as we know in work five and elsewhere is a huge source of people doing things that maybe they wouldn't do if they weren't in drugs that were held to them by our civil industry. There's lots we can do to protect people. And I don't think that further investment in the police force is the best way to do that. Thank you. Yes. Yes, my name is Laurie Tucker, and I live in South Cove. I've lived in Burlington since 19. Let's speak up a little I'm thinking. I lived in Burlington since 1970 something 75 something like that. I kind of I support a lot of the things that you're a lot of you're thinking about that. So I had a business on Church Street for many years, and I would say to customers who are coming in from Essex Junction or Shelburne or Southern Vermont, you know what brings you here and you know conversations would go on. And I would say in the last 20 years, women would say to me, Oh, Burlington just, you know, there's so many, you know, unruly people on Church Street and I don't come down here very often and, but literally, it wasn't just in the last five years, 10 years. It's 20 years. And, and usually it was just because there was someone who looked different than they looked or it was different from their community. I have to say that in all the time that I worked on Church Street, I never felt threatened. That didn't, that doesn't mean that I was happy about people who were sleeping on the street in this in the summertime. I wasn't happy about people who are panhandling. And, and certainly through the pandemic, it got much worse. And more and more people were sleeping in the corners and they were in the backs of the parking lot in the behind the building where I parked my car. People were dealing drugs and drinking and, and public urination and, and it was continued to get pretty out of hand. And do I think that the police, because we always would say, you know, well the police need to deal with this police need to deal with it. And it really isn't so much a police issue, as it is, or public safety issue. I never, I never felt not safe. I just felt sad, sad for where so many people are in their lives, because of so many issues. And so I really, I really have a hard time, you know, pointing to the police and pointing a finger that they're doing something wrong. Their hands are very full. And it used to be at some point. We would talk about that maybe there were 30 people in the community that were homeless, chose to be homeless, liked living on the street liked hanging out on the, on the grounds of the church lawns or on church street itself. And that these people liked it. That's just how that how it was. But it seemed like that that population has grown. And, and the mental illness and the drug abuse has grown. And I think that this is a larger. It is such a large issue that it can't be addressed by the police. It really has to be a larger community and, and, and I love all the things that we're doing in the city for development. It's wonderful to have so much, so much going on. But I don't hear a lot of conversation about all the organizations that need to come together and really address this larger societal problem. I don't think that want there's one thing that's going to, to help it. It's going to have to be a large, a large commitment over time. These are these are really deep issues. So I have a hard time with people who point to finger and say, well it's your problem. It's your problem. It's your problem. Now, it's all of our problems. Other other thought observation either public safety about police oversight about all of the issues that have been brought up so far in our discussion and broadening the discussion to include all of that. Or, or, or Joan, do you have ideas you want to throw into the pot. John, do you want to go first or I'm happy to go first. So you moving towards unmuting Ben so go ahead. Okay. Thanks very much for inviting me and John to be here tonight. And let me echo the thanks from earlier for your service on on the steering committee as well as Billy and Nancy's and congratulations to the new and returning folks on the steering committee. I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person tonight but this is one of those weeks on the city council that I've had back to back to back meetings on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and let's just say, I needed to put the kids down tonight, but glad to be there with you all via zoom and really appreciate your continuing and expanding upon this discussion. I suppose. Just one thing that folks know and you've mentioned it Andy is that the city council is going to be continuing the discussion on police oversight and accountability and we do have a joint committee of six counselors between the ordinance committee which I chair, and the Charter Change committee, the gene Bergman chairs, and Joan is a member of the ordinance committee now as well will begin meeting in May to to again continue this discussion on police oversight and accountability. It sounds like we have a conflict but unfortunately finding a time that works for six people is going to result in that because the first joint meeting is going to be on May 4. The second joint committee, but there's going to be multiple meetings there will be meetings after that I believe on on May 23 and on May 30 and anticipate there will be further meetings beyond then and just so folks in the room know we will be inviting all the members of the steering committee members to take part in this discussion. Fareed will be reaching out to you now not only as a member of the steering committee congratulations but also wanting to have the folks that were behind the question seven initiative be part of the discussion. And a number of other stakeholders, you know, the police department's a big part of that. The police union, as we're talking about police discipline and oversight will be a part of that and then there's a number of course other organizations Howard Center and other sort of players. We're talking about public safety that that need to be a part of this ongoing broad discussion so I could go on a length about my own personal thoughts and oversight but I don't want to take up too much time here Andy. But happy to provide any feedback on that if folks have any questions with respect to the bigger picture of public safety I've appreciated the comments that see folks that are made that I think that we need to be looking at as as a big picture and we look at it often I think too narrowly through the lens of police but it does touch well beyond police I appreciated the comments on housing I think the city's done a number of really great things here in recent months and actually to further improve public safety in that area. I'm thrilled with the progress that's been made with the Elmwood Avenue shelter village which seems to be working out really great. I know there were a number of concerns there in the immediate neighborhood and it just it seems like the project has really taken off and is working very well there. I just felt that we had in February the city stood up its first ever city run warming shelter and unfortunately but also gratefully it was at that warming shelter that staff were able to reverse a couple overdoses. The city council has unanimously passed some measures to sort of reaffirm our interest in further exploring standing up overdose prevention sites and using other innovative strategies to address the overdose crisis. Beyond that and I don't want to dig up again too much time here I think when we do look at the public safety picture through the narrow lens of police. I think we've made some good steps in sort of focusing on alternatives to police officers in resolving conflicts and issues and disputes in our community I was really excited to hear during public comment about the self referral project that's being stood up by the community justice justice center. The city continues to hire a new community service officers and community service liaisons which perhaps folks have seen in the community they're not gun uniform wearing police officers but they're able to address a number of public safety issues in the city. We have a couple urban park rangers in our parks now that have been doing a really fantastic job. The city has secured a few hundred thousand dollars and resources for us to stand up a crisis response team based off of the cahoots model in Eugene Oregon where you're going to have really trained medical and behavioral health specialists able to respond to a number of public safety calls in the community. And I think what that will do is you know we do still in my opinion need police to respond to the incidents that are appropriate for them I think that in bringing in alternative resources for those moments where you don't need police officers is going to I think to our community's benefit free up additional resources for police to do traditional police work. The department has continued to address some of their recruitment and retention challenges and we just lost the video there Andy but I don't know if folks are still there or not. Are you. Okay we lost we lost the video. But the department just recently had one of their largest classes in recent years that just came on board in terms of new hires there. And then just the last thing that I'll say though is that as the department continues to address their recruitment and retention challenges. I do think that an important piece of improving the public safety picture is going to involve Rebuilding some trust in the police department and in my mind that's their two fold I think one is some members of the community have unfortunately I think lost in trust in the department because the extent to which they've been spread thin there's been a number of calls that are not sort of in the police's picture sort of priority one type calls where they haven't really had the resources to respond to it we hear we continue to hear from a number of you know stores for example that don't really receive a police response often to to calls regarding retail theft. And I think that we're going to as we rebuild the department we're going to have to rebuild that trust among folks that that the police department is available to respond to doing their police work. And then I also think that to bring it to a full circle here are continuing to review police oversight and accountability and finding a model that has broad support in the community is going to be important for the community to continue to build and expand upon trust in the department. A lot to talk about there could go on for a very, very long time here happy to answer any questions folks have I don't know if Joe and has anything else to add but really appreciate you're continuing the discussion here. Thank you man. Yeah thanks for this opportunity to hear from people about what their thoughts are on public safety and I certainly agree that that a lot of the struggles in our community are have a variety of root causes which are not being addressed and I think we still need the police unfortunately when people downward spiral to a point where they need to be removed from the community to keep the community safe and to keep themselves safe. That is often the times when police are needed. Even if they're not needed alone. We also need mental health workers and social workers, but I think more and more people are getting to that point, because their needs aren't met earlier, because you can't get the mental health care that you need when you need it. Because your life has become so painful and and bad. Why not turn to drugs. I think it's a logical choice for many people that are suffering. And this is the kind of thing that is I'm not sure it's really something we can't put our finger in the dyke as as a municipality. We really need help from the state and from the federal government to address these kind of community needs which are really just getting worse and it's very sad that people are getting turned away from our hospital or they're admitted to the emergency room for three weeks. Our community needs and deficits are are great. As with regards to police oversight. I would say that how we go about this process is going to be determinative as to whether or not we are successful. And I think that success is a system that both the public has confidence in and that is welcomed by our police department who also doesn't want to you know they want to serve with officers that are staying within the bounds of their training within the bounds of the law and that the department is respected by the public in other places. They have moved forward with various forms of police oversight that have been supported by the police department but to get there the police department and particularly the union really needs a seat at the table and a voice in the process. So I look forward to doing that work. It's also very hard right now because the police are stretched so thin. I don't think we can expect a whole lot of them to be attending these meetings but perhaps giving them voice through other methods such as surveying and allowing them to weigh in you know just by writing to us by bringing that voice to the table when they do. These are some ways that we may be able to include their voice in the process but I think that that is important. Certainly professionals have professional oversight and the police deserve the same. And you know even more so I think having an element of public oversight is important as well. So I look forward to the discussion and many thanks to our fearless Ward 5 leader Ben Travers who's you know co-chairing this discussion. I will say there's actually seven city councillors on that committee because we added one on ordinance so that's a lot of people. We also need to coordinate with the staff so it's not even just the seven of us. And we have a lot of meetings coming up so pay attention. This is the time to weigh in. You should be seeing many opportunities in the coming weeks. Thank you Joan. Thank you Ben. Thank you everyone who attended tonight either online or in person. Really appreciate you're hanging in with this and these are important discussions and important questions that we dealt with earlier with the BW. Thank you for being here and for continuing to be the heart of the NBA. Thank you Andy. Yeah Andy. Are you a defender also?