 So now I'm going to introduce Pete Williams who's the Deputy Director of Library Services at Senate House Library. And his talk today is called Sound and Fury in Senate House Library. It sounds very exciting. I think a thousand words for weather audio installation. So I'm going to hand over to Pete now for about 20 minutes. And then we'll come back and I'll introduce Jenny. So, Pete, I'm handing over to you. Hi, thanks Nancy. I hope you can all hear me and see the presentation. So yes, my name is Pete Williams. I'm the Deputy Director for Services at Senate House Library. And I'm going to talk to you about an exhibition that was hosted in my library this year and last year, which was quite innovative in different ways. So I'll describe it and then go on to make some observations about its impact on us and our thinking about how we might develop the library space in the future. So firstly, just a bit of background about Senate House Library. We're based in this building, this iconic building in the middle of Bloomsbury in London. The Senate House was designed by Charles Holden, modernist architect. It was, the building was opened in 1937. It was specifically built to house the university's administration and also a library. And at the time in 1937 it was the tallest office building in London. And then later the Second World War broke out and it became the Ministry of Information for the duration of the Second World War, after which it reverted to being a library. And it's a lovely building. As you can see, it's frequently used in films and on TV programs. The library itself is from starts on the fourth floor and goes up to the top of the tower. It was originally called the University of London Library. And this takes back to a time when the University of London consisted of a number of colleges as they were called. Over the 20th century, those colleges have become big universities in their own right. In some cases, world-leading ones, so UCL, LSE, Kings. And, you know, now they have their own degree awarding powers, and of course they have their own fantastic libraries. So the University of London has become a sort of looser federation, really, of the founding members. And so the role of Senate House Library itself has changed, correspondingly, and we've become in some way, in some cases a sort of second library for many of these institutions. But I think still an important one, because I think our collections still play an important role in supporting the teaching and research at the University of London. We're still funded by the University of London institutions and the majority of our users are University of London students and staff. We've got a very large print collection of about two million volumes, mainly in the arts and humanities and social sciences, and we hold many notable special collections. In terms of our space, it's generally quite a traditional feeling library. We've got, we've got several very nice reading rooms like this one, this is the Goldsmiths Library, and generally the atmosphere is quiet or silent in some cases, but we now have an area on the on the lower ground floor of the building which is a more sort of modern collaborative space for students. There are other things just to say briefly about Senate House Library before I go on. Firstly, because of the fact that, you know, we were originally with the University of London's main library but over the years, there's been a constant debate over the second library for that reason, for the last decades there's been a constant debate over the purpose and the future of Senate House Library. And as a result of that we're at the beginning of a transformation program, which is a substantial program of investment in the library. So this information is going to focus around our special collections and we're exploring the idea of Senate House Library becoming a sort of hub for special collections in London, housing not just our own special collections but those of some other University of London library so that's an exciting project which I'll come back to at the end but will involve reimagining our space. One thing just to say by way of background is that the University of London isn't just a federation of institutions but it also runs a very large international distance learning program called Worldwide and has about over 40,000 students registered on that. The University of London also has a number of schools of advanced studies, so these are central institutes for example the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies, the Institute of Historical Research, which are based in or around the University of London Senate House and again the schools of advanced study are relevant to this talk. So I hope that's not too confusing, but that's Senate House Library so talk about the exhibition itself, which was called a thousand words for it came about through an art organization called Art Angel approaching us basically so Art Angel are particularly well known for staging art events in unusual locations so in the 1990s they did Rachel Whitewood's house. They've staged events in empty prisons for example, and so they're pretty cutting edge well established on the art scene, and they contacted Katrina Cannon, who's our library director who shortly after she joined Senate House Library in 2021, asking who would we be interested in hosting a sound installation in Senate House, and to her credit Katrina said yes straight away. And then when they explained the concept that they had the idea that the installation would be to do with the weather and the environment. And then to her credit Katrina realized that it was the sort of thing that our academics, by which I mean the School of Advanced Study academics might be interested in and so she got in touch with someone called Charles Bedette who's the director of one of the schools, the Institute of Humanities Research, but but also the person who runs an environmental humanities research hub. She got in touch with him and told him about the exhibition and asked him to be interested in becoming involved, and he was extremely interested. The project sort of quite early on became a collaboration between art angel and their artists, the library, and also the University of London academics so a nice connection was made and it sort of set the tone for the whole project really, and really fitted in you know our desire which I'm sure you will share which is to try and connect the library to the research and intellectual endeavor that's going on in our university and this was an opportunity to do that throughout through the use of our space. So, a thousand words for the weather was the name of the installation, and it basically consisted of three different elements. The first element was the thousand word element so this was a collaboration between a writer called Jessica Jay Lee and a sound artist called Claudia Molitor. And it was basically a sound installation in a room in the library with speakers in which words relating to the weather or the environment or no temperature and things like that were recited in 10 different languages. And these were the 10 most common languages spoken in London, and they were recited in a kind of eerie hypnotic way. So I'm going to just try and play you just an extract of what it what it sounded like I hope you'll be able to hear this. So you get you get the idea. The second element of the exhibition was a number of sound booths which were stationed around the library on different floors, which had each had headphones, and they sort of form part of a trial that visitors to the installation could sort of follow. The sound booths were the creation of a software architect called Peter Chilvers, who created a sort of playback system which took live data from the Met Office and manipulated it into a sort of sound mix so that the sound that you heard reflected the weather outside in some way. Typically, this would be quite a sort of strange ambient droning noise. Again, I'm going to display you an example. So again, you get the idea. And then the third element of the installation was that art angel wanted to publicly broadcast some of those ambient droning noises. They're 50 minutes every day and one of our library reading rooms. And we chose the periodicals room which is this room here which is sort of, as you can see, got lots of sofas. And this is in this part of the exhibition is what caused some of the problems which I'll return to in a moment. Overall, I hope you also agree that it was a really interesting installation to hold in the library. And it was very much about sound and the way it interacted with the library space. So it was opened, I think in June last year, it was open to members of the public, they had to pay five pounds to come in, but it was also open to all of our library members who could of course view it for free. And it was reviewed in the press. It was reviewed in the evening standard. As you can see there, sort of, only gave it three stars, I think. And it was also reviewed more enthusiastically in The Observer, who said it was mesmerizing and subtle. So both reviews were very complimentary about the library. So obviously this was great publicity for us. Alongside the installation, we also did an exhibition of books. So this was an opportunity for us to show off some of our special collections and material and so we picked items that sort of explored the weather in some way. So this exhibition was curated by one of our subject librarians, Argula Rublak, and it was called Weather Notes, and it was a really nice exhibition in its own right. And it featured things like this book you can see in the picture, which is a wonderful book written by an amateur scientist called Thomas Baldwin, and it's about an early hot air balloon journey. It was one of the first books to include an aerial illustration of the earth and as you can see from the images looking down through the clouds. There were also a lot of a series of events organized alongside the installation. These were organized by the School of Advanced Study and Charles Bedacte, and they took place over the duration of the exhibition. The big one which is you can see in the picture featured Jeanette Winterson in conversation with Freddie Otto, but there were also other events, such as the ones you can see here all around the theme of the environmental humanities. Excuse me. And we also, and the library librarians were also involved in some of these events for example this one exploring environmental humanities which was featured talks by librarians but also members of academic staff from the Schools of Advanced Studies who spoke about how they use Senate House Library in their research. And then these events and the exhibition and the installation allowed us to write a series of blogs, blog posts around the theme of weather. And these were written by both librarians and guest academics. So, as you can see there's lots, it generated lots of activity and gave us lots of opportunities to promote our space to promote our collections and our librarians and our library services. So it wasn't all plain sailing. So, I've obviously, I mentioned sound and fury and so in addition to sound there wasn't afraid some some fury. At the beginning of the outset we agreed with with our tangle that we would allow the ambient sounds that were generated by the software to be broadcast fairly loudly and one of our reading rooms every lunchtime. And as I said we chose our periodicals room. It's a different place that people go to relax but as I've said the Senate House Library is generally quite quiet library so it's generally people sort of lounging about on sofas reading or looking at their laptop. And so you've got to imagine that kind of scenario and then one o'clock every day strange noises would start to sort of come out the speakers and sometimes they would get quite sort of disturbing. Sometimes they'd be quiet depending on weather. But as you can imagine once the novelty wore off, it wasn't very popular with our users at all. And it generated a lot of complaints both verbal and written and these are some of them. My argument went when I spoke to students that perhaps they could just move to another room at lunchtime didn't go down very well. And you know it was, I think, a misunderstanding on my part of the way people use libraries and go towards particular spaces. So I contacted Art Angel and said, you know, could they maybe do this once a week instead of every day or ideally stop doing it completely but they were very insistent that they had to keep doing this. For them it was a kind of key part of the concept and they basically, you know, refused to stop doing it. And so we put signs up. They didn't work. Then Art Angel wrote an open letter to all our users explaining the concept. And then, then it started getting sabotaged actually so we would come in and find the speakers have been unplugged. We had to turn down the volume on the headphones and headphones were ripped out plugs and connectors were ripped out of the speakers. And for a while there was this sort of silent anonymous running battle between Art Angel and some of our readers, and Art Angel had to keep coming in to fix it. So personally I was kind of quite relieved when we reached the end of the project for that for that reason but reflecting now on the whole experience. The process massively outweigh the negatives I think, and in the context of this RLUK event, I suppose I'd make the following observations about about the installation. I mean first of all I think hosting the sound installation was a good example of a library space sort of adapting to technological developments and being quite innovative. So finding a way to put our space to the service of scholars and researchers which I think is what we all want to do if we can. And I think it raised our profile within the university and the wider academic community in, you know, quite cool way. Secondly, I think it brought people back into the physical library so we were able to use the existing qualities of our library space to bring people back whether that was to experience the installation, or to attend one of the events or to view the book exhibition. And then we went into the library there were about 800 paying visitors during the duration of the exhibition but obviously also all of our existing library members could also view it and I think we can assume that some at least would have come in specially to see it. Otherwise have come in. And although I've highlighted some of the negative feedback. We've just closed our annual survey and I've been looking through the comments there and there's a lot of very positive feedback about the installation in that. And secondly, I think the installation had a really strong partnership element to it. So, hosting the installation kind of gave us the opportunity to foster partnerships with academics within our institution. We hosted and facilitated their events we kind of brought them together with art angel. We spoke alongside them on panels. So I think that collaboration has is going to lead to sort of lasting connections between, between the library and the university so members of our subject librarian team certainly I know are in contact with academics within the schools of advanced study but also I think the senior management team me and Katrina is put is given it gave us the opportunity to work alongside the directors of the schools of advanced study so it was very positive in that respect. And then finally, I think hosting the, the 1000 words for weather installation has kind of certainly made me think again about the center house library space. So, for me it was really interesting to see visitors members of the public wandering around the upper floors of the library, which is quite labyrinthine and seeing them, you know, finding it quite sort of exciting and unusual. And it may be remember really what, what a sort of wonderful space the library is and as I mentioned we're at the start of a transformation program and said house library is likely to change in the next few years in different ways. And we'd like to become this hub for special collections in London. But for me now when I think about that special collections hub I'm not just imagining a sort of big reading room with people calling over old manuscripts but I'm also thinking about. You know, a more cutting edge kind of space with kind of digital displays, definitely with exhibition and engagement spaces. Also have the library being sort of visible throughout the center house building and perhaps outside of it as well. And I think also just building on this idea that center house library can be a place that attracts people and as well as a historic old building. It can be a sort of modern and exciting space to so I think in hosting 1000 words for weather. That's really had an impact on my thinking and Katrina's thinking as we sort of plan the next chapter for center house library. Many thanks, Pete for that really fascinating talk it's really really interesting and I think that's it certainly sort of job lots of questions for me and I'm sure it has further viewers of the webinar today so please do keep putting those questions in the Q&A. And we'll move on now to straight on to Jenny Campbell's talk, and we'll come back afterwards for the discussion so Jenny is the head of business and management services at Newcastle University library. And she's going to be giving us an overview of recent space developments and support of scholars at Newcastle University library and a glance forward to what's next. So Jenny over to you. So anyway, thank you Nancy. And thanks to our UK very much for the opportunity really to come and talk about what we're doing here at Newcastle. So today, really, it's quite interesting to follow on from Pete. What a fascinating set of slides to look at how exciting that must have been. I think what what what I'm going to talk to you today isn't really a massive reinvention. If you like, it's more of a kind of a measured evolution and the changing face of kind of our scholar behavior and new ways of working. The awakening of the shift to digital that that we're all seeing. So again, a similar is to Pete, a quick overview of our libraries, nothing quite so grand. Yes, as we've got in London. Our libraries consist of four main library buildings and we have some library stores in addition. The Robinson library is our main library which covers all subjects except medicine and law. I'll say a bit more about the Philippine in a moment. The medical library is quite separate on the fifth floor of our medical school, which brings with it limited options for expansion. Now, you know, we can't get any more seats in on the fifth floor and and significant accessibility challenges. Particularly around emergency evacuation and our requirements to do that. Our law library is in the basement of a beautiful Georgian terrace, which are a lovely set of buildings, but which do bring another significant set of accessibility challenges to us. And then our most recent addition is the Marjorie Robinson library rooms, which the university acquired in 2016. Really on the back of us evidencing not having enough library space over over previous years we'd run a pop up library. We had assessment periods in 2014 and 2015, because we just didn't have enough space. So the Marjorie is a print free study space, essentially. And it's not very far away from that from the Philip Robinson library is kind of an overflow if you like. We have around three and a half thousand seats. And our student to seat ratio is about eight to one now. Eight students took to every seat we've previously managed to keep that around the seven seven and a half mark. But since the acquisition of the Marjorie Robinson, we've had no further opportunity to expand the number of seats. But as student numbers go up, we're starting to see that that ratio start to look less favorable, if you like, we do think there's evidence that that has impact on sort of student satisfaction and Back to the Philip. So our Philip, our main library was built 40 years ago, 41 years ago now, 1982, with the significant extension added in 1995 for kind of brown building. We recognize that it looks similar to other other buildings of its of its ilk, quite distinctive. Like many buildings of its age it suffers from an aging infrastructure now we have inevitable issues with heating plumbing ventilation leaks, which kind of eat into the exciting things if you like, we need to keep this this building functioning as well on the positive side, it's built on a very flexible structure if you like sort of designed around a pillar structure six meters apart with non load bearing walls in between so it is relatively straightforward to adapt and adjust the space within the walls. I don't want to say very much about about covert if you like, I came into this role in 2018 having previously been faculty liaison librarian also here at Newcastle. And my first significant space development project was a refurbishment project on the entrance floor of the Philip Robinson library and we were doing exciting things with a new and new entrance making the place more welcoming, introducing exhibition space and doing quite a lot of work on that sort of creating a much more engaging sort of entrance space. That also included actually a big staff workspace that we were we were looking at as well sort of a space for 60 or so members of staff a big open plan space. It was completed in the summer of 2019 and then six months later. We all went home and that the workspace wasn't used in that way for quite a long time, and the focus, like most people the focus of what I did switched very quickly to health and safety and one way systems and, and all of those things. I'm not going to cover all of that again we've talked about that lots already but most building projects were put on hold at that stage. And then back again like like most of you with click and collect in summer 2020 with small teams or bubbles as we all remember them on campus each day. Then the university embraced blended working and the staff space that that we'd so thoughtfully created less than a year before really was no longer ideal. We've had different teams on on campus different days. There's an increasing need for space for blended meetings space for people to take zoom calls and this this this space that looked so you know was so well thought through was no longer really what we needed. But the approach to creating suitable staff space is very much a work in progress and and I can't can't say we've we've made huge strides there there's still an awful lot for us to do. That's probably about enough of the pandemic for now. It is worth noting however that we're fairly convinced that the main reason our NSS score dropped so significantly during the pandemic was due to the restrictions we had to place on on access to computers and and was evidence of how valued access to physical space still still is. So just moving on to kind of what we are doing. Some of the context within which we're working at Newcastle I'm sure this is the same for for for lots of you and I'm missed on here. Our Newcastle University is very much focusing now on this one campus connected campus approach to developing the university estate. We are represented on the university's State's portfolio board. Now, unless this campus of the future group is trying to recognize that connected campus consists of the physical the digital and the cultural. And bringing all of those together. I think that the bringing the big challenges bringing everyone together culturally I think we can do things about the physical space and the digital space but different schools are very used to their different faculty buildings and I think that's the big challenge that that we really need to get across a big amount of work as I already said around hybrid blended working and both the staff students researchers. Newcastle has set clear targets for for sustainability aiming to be net zero by 2030 we have quite an ambitious climate action plan. And one of the ways that we're seeing this impact on on a straight away is in reviewing the university wide approach to out of hours access to spaces. So whereas our 24 seven offer, which was once seen as a flagship offer in the university. To students we're now being asked to consider ways of doing this more sustainably looking at a smaller space potentially or minimizing the time so it's it's it's provided. We also see pressure from kind of wellbeing ambassadors around this this issue as well. We're completely aware of the high value students place on having access to 24 seven, regardless of whether they use it or not so we just need to be really careful around the messaging and then comes around this. We've seen in the last year, lots of opportunity for the library to contribute towards cost of living and and wellbeing and EDI initiatives. This really has helped us open open doors to other meetings and committees in the university to make sort of our our voice heard and share some of our expertise. The whole university is trying to make better use of data. And this is university data analytics roadmap is something that we're trying to look at and then work out how we fit into this. We're in quite a strong position. We have access to lots of data. We don't have a data analyst on our on our staff we do have someone that supports that role. So resourcing this is is is a challenge for us and it's likely to be our focus for the next couple of years to get staffing to help us make better use of the data we've got. It could be like lots of you. We're talking a lot about digital shift and digital transformation and how this impacts on on our space requirements as well. And all of this has had a feed into kind of library strategic objectives. So coming on to thinking about our our spaces. We have a range of types of space where we do have science spaces we have a lot of collaborative space as well. And we carry out a lot of UX work to understand how spaces are being used to help us inform sort of changes going going forward. And the evidence that we've seen over the last year 18 months is is the shift from the balance that we had from silent towards collaborative. Obviously, we're keeping a lot of silent seating, but we are we are noticing that the demand is more for the collaborative type seating. And we are also noticing and trying to put in places for for types of study space that we've never had before so space for students to engage with online seminars for example so they want to be able to actively engage with with those online online tutorials and things like that We experimented with one such space last year it was very popular is well used and this is allowing us to expand that into the Marjorie Robinson this summer. So one of our plans this summer is to refurbish one whole floor is more of a collaborative space in addition to that the spaces we've got over there. The Medical Library is going to have additional study rooms added and additional collaborative space, particularly in an area that is or was occupied by our short loan student text collection. We've noticed a significant decline in material being used from these collections, which was apparent before COVID which has escalated quite rapidly since with the move to a first during the pandemic. So this is an opportunity for study space. The university's last capital build, which is the Stevenson building for the School of Engineering is going to have library study spaces that we may be involved in in helping manage. So at the moment, Newcastle University Library doesn't currently manage or oversee any non library study spaces. Our experience from during during the pandemic was probably would have been very helpful if we did because we would have had a better way of getting some of the messages out about spaces that were open. So any opportunity for us to have a look at supporting some other spaces where we're interested in. I'm very interested in speaking to other folk that that already do manage or are involved in the management of non library study spaces, particularly to hear about potential pitfalls as well as the benefits I think. Our academic skills team is growing rapidly at Newcastle it's a real success at the moment so we used to have a writing development team which has expanded to cover more, more general academic skills. Their requirement is for one to one space. And we are seeing a real rapid rise of a return to face to face one to one face to face consultations. We don't have the space for these at the moment so one of the projects for this summer is the creation of a new academic skills hub with three individual consultation booths and adjoining space for group activities. We still think this may not be sufficient for demand so we will assess this over the next year and potentially add in some additional type of space next, next summer. We are part of the university's cost of living task and finish group and one practical outcome from that group kind of suggested by the students on that group was the introduction of kind of living room type space we're not the first and we're not the only to do this. But it has worked really quite well for for us so we've taken over or adapted some space in the Marjorie Robinson library to make it look much more living room II. We've added games and puzzles and book swap area we've increased the number of microwaves and hot and cold water points actually across all of our libraries. We could talk more about the challenges that brings, but so far we've kind of we're managing that we have had microwaves before in years gone by and they always it always ended in disaster and they were gone but this time. We seem to be managing to persuade the student body to help help us keep them clean exhibition spaces. I said right at the beginning that we introduced some new exhibition space into the entrance level of the Philip Robinson library. A couple of summers ago, and our special collections and archives team have a growing expanding program of exhibitions highlighting our special our special collections and archives. We, there's a constant constant. There's a question around location and the best location for this because, as you might expect what is prime space for for exhibitions is also highly desirable students to study in. We're not a huge library so we do have this, this slight conflict between exhibitions and study space. So that's that's one that I think we will revisit and carry on considering the best spaces for for our exhibitions. One other thing we have experimented with this year is hosting visiting exhibitions so that the climate change emergency exhibition you can see is one that was created elsewhere that kind of visited us for a little while and then disappeared off to somewhere else on campus. Just before COVID we expanded our digitization suite in the Philip Robinson library, still a relatively small affair but you know we've got much more space now to do what we need to do. We created a virtual reading room and our special collections reading room and very recently a virtual teaching space in in one of the less used PC PC clusters that we repurposed for that. The virtual teaching space is very exciting we've only really had access to it for well since sort of October time. But we already have some more AHRC Capco funds to allow us to expand the space to accommodate much bigger physical groups to engage with the material at the same time so this is one of the projects that is is literally ongoing now and you can't quite hear the walls coming down a few rooms to the right of me but there is physical building work going on to expand that room at the moment. The library manages the university stores, the main one being at Team Valley but we do have a couple of others on campus. The Team Valley research reserve holds about 29,000 linear meters of stock mostly less well used library material but also some university records and some artefacts owned by Tynanwea archives and museums. Our special collections and archives team are very successful in attracting new donations and gifts. We recently got the Citeri Farrell archive at Newcastle. So increasingly our storage is required for special collections as well as sort of library material, which comes with their own sort of standards of storage. And we do have two archival standard stores, both of which are pushing capacity now. So we are considering how to bid for funds for further expansion for actual archival space going forward. One of our last priorities for this year is and this will take several years I think we have plans to make the print stock in our on site libraries more accessible. We've still got stacks that are two and a half meters high and aisles that really aren't accessible. The relegation required to do this across our libraries is no mean feat. And we'll have a big knock on to what we keep in stores and the withdrawal of material from for our stores as well so we think this is quite a long project but one that we really do need to start on. So that's it for me for today really. We do as well as all of the UX work, we do ask for feedback about our spaces. So yeah, and we do try and engage with our students all the time to make sure our spaces are responding to what they need. That's it for me, thank you very much. Brilliant. Thank you very much, Jenny. There's a lot going on at Newcastle. I think a lot of the people on the webinar today would be will be recognizing a lot of what you were saying. There's so many things that you were discussing that speak to the trends, the general trends in the world, but also in university libraries as well. So it has generated this number of questions that have come through. So please both of you again. If it's okay with you Jenny I'll go, I'm going to go back to Pete to sort of start off with the questions, give yourself a moment to recover from your talk. So Pete there's been some questions that have come through for you so I'm just going to open them up and have a go back and have a little look. So there's one question here that I'm going to add a little bit to as well if that's all right. So it's from Karen Latimer and the question is fascinating collaborative project. Did you have to adapt existing spaces or did you already have those required such as the sound booths. And did you do any post exhibition evaluation. Just a little add on from me there would be in terms of that. Both the adaptation and the post exhibition evaluation did that then lead into your feeling sort of prepared or ready to accept any further or sort of future similar requests. So, in answer to the question question of the sound booths. I think we, we, you're able to use we have a number of they're called study carols and their little rooms that researchers can book for typically a week or longer to work in the library and they weren't really well as sound booths we also but some of them were also in the windows actually. So, and I think art angel sort of set them up so that people could kind of sit in the window seats and look outside and listen to the booth so it's a mixture really there was. Art angel did do some work to, but we also utilized our existing sort of facilities I suppose. Oh, and I suppose the room where, where the, the voices were sort of reciting the different words for whether that was actually just a kind of. It was a, it was just a kind of an empty room actually wasn't really being used to for anything although actually subsequently we've realized that it was a bit of a, we've actually turned into a room for quiet reflection prayer actually. Because it seemed to work so well for for the installation in terms of sort of assessing how it went and so on and I think we're still sort of doing that I mean, as I said, we just closed the annual user survey and there's quite a lot of feedback in that about it, both positive and negative, mainly positive, I think. And certainly, I think, you know, generally, we felt it was a success overall. And like for example we definitely were planning a new book exhibition later in the year around Shakespeare's anniversary and other things in the future as well. And then you expand a little bit in terms of the sort of how how you make sure you get support for the, you know, collaborating or participating or accepting these sorts of requests do you have us. Do you have a more sort of robust process for that now do you feel or do you, will you just sort of respond to them as ad hoc. I think, yeah, we don't really have. Yeah, perhaps that's something we need to sort out and ultimately I think it's up to Katrina the director, I mean, this particular one. Katrina was keen on it. Pro Vice Chancellor Joe Fox, who actually also manages the school advanced study as soon as the schools of advanced study became involved it was just something the university really wanted to do. So we did so there wasn't really an approval process as such I think we would deal with it just on an adult basis I think, because it's not like we get approached like put on installations like this regularly it was quite a unique thing so. That's great thank you okay so I'm going to go back to the questions now. Yes, so that was there was a full one there so this one is from Caroline. Many thanks for presentation. Peter, were there many barriers to approving the art angel collaboration given how many stakeholders are involved in the library's use and management. And what was the process like so it's connected a little bit to what I was saying. So what were the main concerns prior to the installation and did these correlate with the actualized issues. So as I said there wasn't really a formal approval process I think when, as I said we got quite a lot of support for it within the university, we would have told key stakeholders for us are the other Federal University of London libraries we there's a federal library's group I think they were supportive. The group, I mean I, we didn't really consult with our users if I'm honest, the group that did flag up concerns and concerns. And they were right where the library staff who did ask, you know, you know why there's going to be problems if you have a sound installation in a quiet library. I, I sort of said I don't worry about it, it won't, it won't be a problem, but they were right really and they were right about the reading room, not working. So, so I think library staff did raise some concerns, which we will definitely listen to more carefully next time. Okay, thank you and a much more straightforward question how many external visitors to the installation attract. Do you have numbers for that. Yeah, it was the number of people actually paid to come in who weren't library members was 758, which was over about nine months I think. I said that we also have thousands of library members all of whom could, could you interact with the, with the installation and obviously not all of them did but I think what would imagine a significant number of those did as well so it's a bit difficult for me to, to come up with an exact figure for how many people look to the book exhibition for example or, or, or listen to, to the, the sound booths, but I imagine it was, you know, thousands, rather than hundreds. Okay, thank you very much. I'm just going to move on to questions for Jenny now. So some other questions have been coming in. So I, you've answered this partly through the presentation but this is a question. Jenny does the library have any dedicated spaces for library teaching and what plans if any do you have for these so I know you talked about the virtual teaching space. But do you have any others. In a moment. Yes, we do. We have a small number of well fairly small clusters essentially for what was more traditional sort of library based teaching based on PCs. The use of those is really dropping off. I think our liaison colleagues will do much more of that type of teaching out on campus now. The space that we're focusing on for for in in library teaching are spaces for our outreach team. So where the skill children come in, where we actually really really want them to be in the library, and also the spaces for delivery a special space, not just through the virtual reading room or the virtual teaching space, but just generally for, you know, the material that we can't easily take outside of the library for security reasons. So I guess what I'm saying is our on in in library teaching spaces are focused very much on the outreach and the special collections elements. So we haven't got the space to have the big clusters that that we, we really would need if we were going to continue with that kind of teaching space if that makes sense. Yeah, thank you. We've got a couple of questions around the collaborative study space is one. The one that we agreed with when you mentioned this was around the demand for more collaborative space versus quiet study space because what we found that LSE is a requirement for more quiet study space post COVID so in your experience. Was this the case for researchers or were you mainly looking at undergrad use for the for the demand for that collaboration space. We think it's both. I mean some some of the evidence is taken from the people are actually in the building at the time. So that will be predominantly undergraduate but not exclusively so we do know from football at particularly PGT make good use of the library. So I think for our, the researchers that that are in the building that come into our library they are the evidence we have is that they're coming in to to meet either other researchers or largely library colleagues so that the research data management team or the open access team. So that kind of consultation space. That kind of collaboration is that sort of the postgraduate. I'm waffling a little bit but that kind of space that that we think that the researchers are asking us for. We did experiment with providing sort of that kind of larger engaging space and we just need reason for for doing that so I think our, our view is that the virtual teaching space will double up as kind of an engaging space that at times as well and we'll we'll see how that's, that's works. So there's a related question about the collaborative study spaces here that says what will be different about the collaborative study spaces you're developing in the Marjorie Robinson compared to the existing ones in Philip Robinson. How will they work better for the users wanting to actively engage in online seminars. So it's, it's what the gap, I think we found and I'm sure lots of if you found as well is, is that space for, for people are working to together but separately. I never found a good way of describing this so they want to work with with their friends but they're actually working on an independent piece piece of work or they want to engage with the seminar that at the same time as their friends are so it's exactly that. The same. Yeah, it's a type of space we didn't really provide for before. So we've done that on a small scale. Now, in a space of about 20 or 30 seats in the Philip Robinson library. And we think that the Marjorie will. So for example, we're putting in more like individual booths as well as next to the collaborative so I guess it's more of a mix of of mix of furniture on a largely collaborative floor which will allow bigger groups smaller groups and individuals, but it's definitely not a silent study area. And if anyone's got a better way of describing that kind of independent but not working in a silent space. Yeah, be good to hear that kind of how people describe those spaces. It sounds very familiar to a lot of the adaptations that we've we've made as well. And so moving on to another question so for you again Jenny the funding you bid for is that bids you go for yourself or do you get wider University help. The particular one that that's getting us the funding for the enlarged virtual teaching space was a joint bid with an academic in English who is very good at getting these kind of bids so our special collections librarian worked with a professor in English and it was a joint bid. Okay, thank you. And so somebody just posted in the chat how about parallel study quite like that one for the. Oh yeah, working alongside that's quite nice. Yeah, yeah. So this is a question for both speakers. So this, it can be quite difficult to convince wider University organizational stock stakeholders to invest in library spaces, given that many of the benefits libraries provide students and visitors are qualitative rather than quantitative. How have you managed this. Pete do you want to come in. You've been quiet for a while. I still, I think the main, the main way we try and justify investment or is through quantitative data still really a lot of it comes down to, especially because of our relationship with the other University of London institutions. We're all you know we're always being asked to provide usage statistics how many of your students how many LSE students coming into the library for example. So I think there is real the truth is a lot of it does come down to hard data on usage use of electronic resources use of books. But I mean I would say that things like the thousand words for whatever exhibition. I mean they're, they are more difficult to quantify but I mean I don't, I think they're kind of good in a sort of general way in the way you know it was good to have, you know be reviewed in, in national newspapers it was good to have events in the library so I think those sort of things do help us. But it's different, you know, in the eyes of the University management and the wider Federation but it's a bit difficult to quantify that I would imagine it must help us. Yeah, and Jenny. It's similar I think I mean the the the Marjorie which was our last sort of addition. The proof of concept was we ran the pop up library for sort of three assessment periods which kind of prove that lack of space element so that goes to the extra space. We do have access to a Robinson bequest that we can bid for so this is meant to be additional funding that isn't for your run of the mill so we've been able to experiment with small scale on with new furniture through through that route as well which is, which has helped. But yeah it is a challenge definitely things like new entrance gates and those kind of things are just always business cases that we need to and they are based on like Pete says on on quantitative data generally. Do you do either of you work very closely with your respective student unions in terms of their voice. Yes, we do. So things like the library living room came from collaboration with with the student union. Some of our extended hours over previous years have been sort of driven by conversations with with them so yeah that works quite well it depends on the, on the, the interests of the sabbatical offices that particularly so a couple of years ago we had somebody who's got microwaves in every library and that was you know that was that was there. And then they go away so so yeah yeah yes it's a short answer we do have good links with them. I mean speaking for Senate House Library I think we, we struggle a bit with that because of the nature because of, as I explained we're, we're sort of the second library in many cases for students who have their own home library. So there's potentially 17 student unions that we would need to liaise with and, and obviously, and it's difficult so we try and constantly to think of ways of engaging with our users, and we've had to use a forum, and the the the there's a big, a big, a big thing for us. But yeah it's quite challenging I think because of our unique sort of situation. Yeah, so it's a different sort of role that you guys have. And so I've got hopefully a couple of short questions here for you, Jenny so that has new castle use visualizers for remote access to special collections. Yes. Yes, I mean don't ask me the technical ins and outs of it but yes we've, we've, yes there are visualizers and some fairly complicated tech in those rooms and actually that is one of the challenges is. It's the beautiful rooms and fabulously set up but without the AV support and and yeah, yeah. So yes we do. All of all of the tech is yeah it comes with. Yeah, you need. Yeah. Sorry, Pete go on. You're going to say something. Yeah I was just going to say that we also have just launched. I think it's called a virtual reading room services. Yeah, it's a big visualizer that we're also using to, to give access to our special collections actually. And then we just got a couple more for you Jenny do you signpost to non library study spaces. We would like to be able to do it better. So one of the projects we're trying to get involved with the university is a is a better understanding of non library study spaces and where they are and when are they open and you know it's not rocket science but they're not very well promoted. And yeah so that's that is something that we would really like we've seen what other universities have done with regard to that kind of signposting so we we we try but we don't do it very well at the moment. Okay, and then we've got one last one here. Are your Marjorie Robinson library room staffed. Do you think the engineering study space as you mentioned will be staffed by library staff. Yes to the first bit. So Marjorie Robinson we have library attendance who make the building safe and clean and you know manage entry and exit and and all of those those things. And we, we do find or we have found that the feedback we get is that the students do welcome having that presence there. So yes we do have we do have staff in those building that that building. I suspect the engineering study space will be more of a there will be a presence at certain times, more of a drop in I really don't know yet. But yeah that that I think there needs to be some kind of presence at some point to make it feel otherwise it's not a library space so we're still kind of thinking that what that what that means and how we brand it and what services we could offer there and all that kind of stuff so it's quite exciting. I mean it's not a done deal yet we haven't been told we can do it but I suspect there would need to be some staffing and we would need to find some resources to do that. I think some all the different discussion points here. And one question that kept coming up in my mind, especially with with you Jenny was around university wide groups that look at space and I just wondered if either of you know of, if you have them and do you does the library have a presence on those groups, whether it's student focused or whether it's estates more generally. So either of you have aware of that your institutions. Yeah, I can go first on that yes we do so Newcastle has a very newly set up estates portfolio board that cuts across the whole university. It's very high, you know, some some some strong ideals of this this one campus is connected campus and and the proof yet to be seen but but yes in theory that we are supposed to be looking at the campus more holistically and how all the bits of it fits together. And we do have a voice on that so that's that's good. Yeah, absolutely. And Pete, do you have something that's in a house a bit like that. Yeah, there's a there's a kind of the University of London. Kind of as there's a sort of estates, the estates team are currently kind of reviewing the estate. And we're doing you know doing our utmost to make sure that our sort of plans for the library are included in that I think that's the challenge. Yeah, I mean a good example of this but sometimes things do happen I suppose without the library being kind of directly consulted so for example I mentioned we've got there's a new study space on the lower ground floor of Senate House, which is called bloom and it's a place that provides space that we can't really provide upstairs, but it wasn't actually really a library space as such it was just sort of created by the university but actually after it was created no one was really owning it so actually we've been able to kind of go in and and sort of become a sort of ways I library space really, and you now need a library card to get in so yeah I think that's an example of a sort of sort of non library space that we're sort of semi managing now. Thank you. And I think a more much sort of broader wider more long term question or consideration I think both of you have spoken really eloquently to the fact that libraries adapt. You know, we have spaces with for the very very long time we've been used to storage, and we've been used to study space as well but I think both of you in very different ways have spoken to that need for libraries to be very flexible. You can both say a little bit more about that in terms of the nature of that flexible flexibility and the sort of skills and experience and knowledge that has to go with that in order to adapt to whatever's thrown us frankly. I just wanted if you if you'd had any sort of broader, more grander thoughts around that. I don't know who wants to go for this. Okay, I mean, I don't know if I've got any grand thoughts really. I mean, we are, as we're in a sort of listed building with there's a sort of, there is some limitations actually on what we can do within the space. And certainly, you know, an obvious thing is that we're thinking about having less kind of unused print collections on, you know, taking up the space and maybe trying to move those to another location to make more of a space that we limited space that we have within the building so that'd be one example. Actually, that's just chimed in with a question we had even before either of you had done your talks around digital resources and the need to withdraw print volumes and what should be done to make use of the space. So that I think that definitely speaks to that as well in terms of how we've all shifted or have been trying to shift sort of, you know, print material out. Jenny, do you want to say something about that? Nothing particularly grand in particular, but I think we're trying to fit in with the university kind of funding cycle as well. So, you know, trying to have these ideas now that we can implement next summer because that's when the funding comes around. So it's, there's an element of really having to know now what we want in a year's time. But then in the interim, tweaking at the edges and doing what we can. So things like the living room was a something that just came out of the blue. So it's, yeah, it's that balance, I think, about opportunity and planning, I suppose, which again isn't rocket science. But yeah, and it's knowing what it's that user experience and knowing what our students need and researchers and spending the time getting that information is time consuming. Yeah. I think, I think, and as somebody just put in the chat there, I think they, we are very good at adapting and responding to what our users need. I think we're in this business because we like to solve problems and part of that is what do our users need at any one time and that's been changing very, very quickly in the past few years.