 this 10th year Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to every single one of you, Kevin, Paul Teeson, Ali Sanjabi, and brand new patrons, Mike, John, Natalie, and AA. Thank you all for following us at patreon.com slash DTNS. On this episode of DTNS, Sony pulls discovery content from people who paid for it. Yeah, it's kind of as bad as it sounds. Could X go broke? The BBC has a level-headed look, and PC Mag's IaaS Aktar tells us what the best Android phones are. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, December 4th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. From New York, New York, I'm IaaS Aktar. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. IaaS, how do you feel sitting in the seat of judgment over Android phones? It's quite a great seat. I enjoy it very much. It's made up of dead Android phones, and palm trees are my arm rests. You are you're the right person for the job. Others would have been like, well, no, I don't know if I'm like, no, I love it. Judgment is for me. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's your thing. That's good. I can't wait to get to that segment. All right, let's start with the quick hits. Spotify announced its third round of layoffs this year. The first was in January. And then they had about around 1000 or so, 6% of their workforce in June. And now they have eliminated 17% of the workforce. That's about 1500 jobs. Spotify laid off a few 100 employees in January, 6% in June, and CEO Daniel X cited the economy and rising costs as the reasons for this round of right sizing, as they call it. Spotify recently announced a rise in monthly active users and operating income and its first quarterly profit in more than a year and a half. But the margins are still thin. Yeah, a lot of money and less people working. Excellent. Anyway, Google DeepMind discovered that if you asked ChatGPT 3.5 Turbo to repeat a word forever, it would repeat it a lot, but then reach a limit and start to spit out raw training data. Over at 404media.co, Jason Kohler has found that OpenAI now limits the response to a few dozen repetitions followed by a notice that this request may violate the terms of service. So don't do it. Yeah, that's not good. You'll now be able to send uncompressed photos and videos as a document in WhatsApp for iOS in the latest update. This is an alternative to the default compressed version. It's rolling out over the next few weeks. If you don't notice it right away, you should get it soon. When it does show up, you'll tap on the plus, choose document, and then after document, choose photo or video. The recipient will get the full photo, but they won't get a preview thumbnail. The file also must be smaller than two gigabytes. That should be plenty, though. The feature has been in testing for the Android WhatsApp version since September, so it shouldn't be far behind coming to Android as well. You know, if you wanted to invite your entire office to your home theater, you can do that pretty soon. If you have an Apple TV of a certain kind, Zoom posted an app to the Apple TV OS store that lets you use an iPhone as the camera to take Zoom calls on your TV. Yay. Apple's own FaceTime works in the same way on the Apple TV. Now, Zoom works on the Apple TV 4K second gen or later, so enjoy. Just be careful where you put the phone down when you're taking a break. Eurogamer is among the first to review Sony's PlayStation Access Controller. This is an accessible controller for folks. It is similar to the Xbox Adaptive Controller. However, the PlayStation Access Controller is a full controller, so no need for external input devices. It is supported by dedicated accessibility software, which has come out to rave reviews as well. Eurogamer did note that it's only got 16 buttons, so it cannot fully replace a dual-sense controller and probably works best paired with one, mostly because it doesn't have enough buttons, but you could pair it with a second access controller. You just got to pay twice and get 32 buttons, and that should be enough if you can't use a dual-sense at all. All right, folks. That is our quick hits. Let's talk about another Sony story that is less good than the Access Controller. Sony's been emailing users and put up a page on its website to let folks know that some Discovery TV content they paid for will be removed from their libraries after December 31st. You heard me right. If it was a Discovery show on a list of around 1,000 titles, whether you paid for it or not, and you wouldn't have access to it if you didn't, you won't be able to play it after December 31st because of an expiration of a licensing agreement between Sony and Warner Brothers Discovery. Sony wrote, due to our content licensing arrangements with content providers, you will no longer be able to watch any of your previously purchased Discovery content, and the content will be removed from your video library. Links to a page listing a few thousand shows. So you don't own that video, and apparently neither did Sony because they can't keep it around either. Keeping in mind, last year, Sony removed some content from Studio Canal from users in Germany and Austria due to licensing issues. The company stopped selling TV shows and movies back in 2021. They did say at the time that you'd still be able to access your existing purchases, but that's only as long as the content licensing agreements allow them to provide them to you. Now, despite this being the kind of horror story that people bandy about a lot when discussing buying cloud video, it is pretty rare. You can count on one hand the number of times this has happened. You might need a second hand, but you won't need more than the normal two hands, which makes it all the more significant that Sony not only sent this note, but didn't apologize, didn't say sorry, didn't offer refunds, didn't offer workarounds. This is something recently Google started removing magazines that you had bought from them and gave people the opportunity for a refund for these magazines. Those haven't been sold in several years. So Ayaz, what do you think? I mean, obviously, you should have known you didn't really own it from the beginning, but a lot of people probably didn't realize that. Yeah, I don't think this is something people think about when they part with their hard earned money. They're like, Oh, I'm buying a license to watch something. I don't think people are thinking that when they purchase stuff, especially going through Sony's television service. So you basically had to choose which retailer to go to or online retailer and then you paid them stuff and then stuff disappears. I would argue that Samsung not Samsung Sony is particularly thinking about its response. It's like, well, if we say an apology or say we're going to give you money, we're setting up a precedent. So the next time we do it, you want more money, you want more refunds. So they're like, they're not going to even alert you that this is a problem. It's like, Oh, well, these are gone. Now a lot of this stuff is on, I believe, on Max and Discovery Plus. Now if they offered like a free month of that, maybe you can watch your Mythbusters and how the universe works. But it's kind of depressing to see this because it was really psyched when movies anywhere came out. You buy a movie, it's available in multiple services. That it was not applicable to TV shows, which always bothered me. And now this bothers me a tiny bit more. Yeah, I think there should be, I think it would be good for the consumers. Let's put it that way to have an analog of movies anywhere for television shows. And anybody who doesn't understand movies anywhere, you log in and associate the platforms where you own movies. And then those movies become available on all the platforms you have associated. So if you associate Google, Apple, Amazon, Voodoo, then every movie you've bought at each of those stores is available on each of those stores platforms with a couple of exceptions. There's still one or two studios not participating. But for the most part, most movies will be available. And even if a platform goes away, like Target used to have their own video platform, when the Target platform went away, because I had movies anywhere, my movies stuck around. They are available in Apple and Google, etc. And so situations like we're having with Sony today don't happen with movies anywhere because of that. And I believe Sony is part of movies anywhere. So it would be great if you had the version of TV shows, a TV show version of that, but we don't. So we end up having to hope that the licensing agreements to sell these videos was better than the one Sony struck because frankly, people are mad at Sony and there are reasons to be mad at Sony. But I would also be mad at Warner Brothers Discovery for insisting on terms that allow them to pull these away. As the provider of the content, it would be nice if they weren't insisting on a term that said, oh, once you buy this video from this platform, we can revoke that license in the future because that that is ultimately Warner Brothers Discovery doing this. They could grant a waiver and say like, oh no, the Sony stuff can stay on indefinitely, but they have not because they want you to subscribe to Max. That's right because Warner Brothers Discovery in an unprecedented mood is making another bad move. You heard it here first. I mean, they definitely cut out a whole bunch of stuff on Max and I get the idea of you don't want to pay royalties and stuff like that. And the weird thing is it doesn't matter what the studio is or the streaming service or even if you quote unquote buy a video, they can disappear left and right. And that's like one of the reasons since the streaming stuff was changing so far. So recently, I was like, okay, I got to make sure my servers are up to date. I've been getting my own stuff. I've been buying physical media, ripping them myself. Now, check your local laws if you're allowed to do that, and obviously don't start, you know, distributing it. But for me, I want to make sure that for some reason, let's say Max loses it or Sony decides to like just lose their license or Warner Brothers pushes a deal whomever because it's not just Warner Brothers, just tons of studios that want to make their own money and there are tons of places that are trying to do this. Having your own stuff as your own backup and I like a server over physical media. It's just easier to work with. I highly recommend it if you've got the time to kill. Yeah, I have always looked at these even the movies as long term rentals, right? There's a rental that usually expires after a week or so. So if I'm like, you know, I might want to watch it more than once over a year, then I'll buy a TV show and I will think of it that way. I will think of it as this could go away. I'm not collecting it. There aren't a lot of people though that think of buying TV shows on a platform as collecting and I would rush to add in the most cases, they're right. Like if they've bought something from Apple, that has stuck around with a couple of very minor exceptions in a couple of countries where there were a couple license issues that I think got resolved. So for the most part, people don't know this has been a problem. This story is going to change people's minds and it's actually going to depress sales of digital video because people will say, maybe I shouldn't buy this here because I heard about that Sony thing where things will disappear. Maybe they don't make enough sales on digital items to care, but if they ever want to, this is a bad precedent that Sony and Warner Brothers Discovery are setting. Sony should be better about the communications and the policy aspect of this. Warner Brothers Discovery should be better about the licensing aspect. If anybody's listening to this from those companies, listen, you want to make sure the cost is low because when the cost gets too high or the stuff's too expensive, it's hard to find. People go and they sell the seven C's. Don't make it hard for people to get your stuff. Don't. Speaking of money, let's talk about a BBC article called, could X go bankrupt under Elon Musk? Now, those of you who are fans of Musk, I know, are immediately got your back stuff, right? You just felt that. Oh, that tingle. Like, ah, here we go. Another hit piece. This is not an overhyped hit piece. It's a fairly level-headed evaluation of this question that leans toward no. They probably won't go bankrupt. It's actually telling people like, those of you who think it's going to fail, here's why it probably won't. But I would submit it does show how far we've gone with Twitter that this is now a serious question that deserves a serious level-headed article. So to summarize, you should absolutely read the article. But the actual danger is that Insider Intelligence estimates that X's ad revenue is close to $2 billion and that Musk has cut staff costs down quite a bit, but Reuters estimates X still has to pay $1.2 billion a year on the interest of the loans that Musk took out to buy Twitter. So 1.2 of the $2 billion ad revenue is being taken out for interest. You also got the cost of operating and 90% of the revenue is estimated to come from ad revenue. So there's not a lot more than the $2 billion. The options that Clayton lays out in this article would be that Musk could put in more of his own money, and he absolutely could, but doesn't seem like he wants to. He could renegotiate the loans to reduce the interest payments. That seems like the most likely thing that would happen if it runs into trouble. And it's not necessarily going to run into trouble. But if it did, that seems like what would probably happen or Chapter 11 bankruptcy would do the other. So not bankrupt go out of business, but bankrupt, let's restructure the debts. However, at that point, the banks might actually push for management changes, and that could result in some very public and costly court cases. Even then, though, X would continue to operate, because if it shut down, creditors would have a good case to put a trustee in charge and turn it back on anyway. So it does look like it's probably not going to go bankrupt. It's probably going to renegotiate loans. But it also, none of these were talking about profitability or increases in monthly active users or anything like that. Yeah, what's not to it? It's been less than a year. So the whole deal starts off in April 2022. It closes in October 2022. It's 2023 in December. And these are real questions. And I'm sure Tom mentioned it just make reiterating this. This is from the BBC. This is not something like kids blog, and he's losing his mind or her mind. This is responsible for reporting discussing whether or not the service can continue. I don't know if Musk has the, let's say, the humbleness to call it a loss and sell it to some companies. They've been looking to get into social media forever, Google, Microsoft, Apple, and look at U3. I don't know if it would be humility or exasperation. If he sold it, it would be because I'm done. You all have ruined it. I'm done. I'll finally sell it. That would be the only way I see him sell it. Yeah, so he'd have to make it about him and he succeeded. You know, you guys didn't buy, you didn't want it because of this. I give it back to the people, basically, Bane from Dark Knight. He'd have some spin. Yeah, but that's the thing. It does go to show that we've seen this a lot. I feel like we've been covering this forever. These ebbs and flows of like, this giant can never be toppled, and then it does get toppled. Whether it's bad management or another service comes in, it's really about the cost to entry. The thing is, if you're looking for a microblogging service, that's not hard to replicate, because Twitter itself was even a copy of the old aim away messages. That's all this is. Granted, the ton of goodwill that Musk has thrown away with posts instead of tweets, X instead of Twitter, it's mind blowing how somebody could dis-tank this. So it's a real, it's very important that this stuff is discussed. But the other thing is like, if news sources are moving away from the, let's say this, I'm going to lack a better word, the stink, the stench of Musk, the stuff that he will say, and that the f off to advertisers, all of these very poorly thought out, poorly managed and sometimes offensive things he's doing, it's not that hard to go, you know what, I'm a big advertiser, I'm a small guy, I'm going somewhere else because it doesn't cost me much to leave, even though you might lose your thousands of followers, but whatever. Yeah, I think it's significant that, you know, a few years ago, the pieces were all about, can Twitter get its monthly active users up far enough? Can Twitter increase its revenue beyond advertising enough? And now we're talking about, can Twitter make enough money to not go bankrupt? I think that's very telling. The other thing it can do is bring in new revenue sources. So that's worth considering. Subscriptions in Musk's own estimation could only make up 100 million, so that's not going to solve it. It could help a little bit, it won't solve it. The new revenue sources could involve turning X into a banking app, into a money app, which Musk has talked about, that's going to take a long time. It's going to take a while to get adoption, especially when you have a chunk of your audience that doesn't trust the platform anymore. I wouldn't write off a surprise product of some sort. It is the kind of thing Musk does where you think he's down and out, you don't think he has any moves, and he pulls something out of his hat, the hat that he sits on, and suddenly it's working. And he gets to see, I told you so, as if he planned it all along. I'm not saying that's likely to happen, but I wouldn't count that as a 0% possibility. I'll put it somewhere lower than Tom was saying just because this has only been a year. You're supposed to go slow in the beginning. This is amazing. I have to look up stuff in history. Anything has lost value this much so quickly, not involving a government shutdown. There have been a lot of things lose this value this quickly, but probably not as big. Probably not as big as this at the start. Well, folks, follow us on X at DTNS Show. Or if you're someone who's like, yeah, I'm not over there anymore. We are also at mstdn.social on Mastodon, DTNS Show there. We're daily tech news show on TikTok and DTNS pics, DTNS PIX on Instagram and threads. The OnePlus 12 comes out Tuesday, December 5th in China. OnePlus continues to steadily trickle out details ahead of that announcement, including 100 watt wired charging, 5000 milliamp hour battery. But if you're not in China or you don't want to wait for the OnePlus to come to your market, IaaS has been looking through all the other Android phones out there to determine the best of the year for PC Mag. Now, IaaS, we've got these broken up by kind of user, which I think is a useful way to do this for folks. Where should we start? I want to start with the most fun stuff, and that's the foldables, because you know, if you've seen a phone in the past, I don't know, 10 years, they've looked pretty much the same. We've had some gimmicks that try to be a big thing, like flip out keyboards, flip out screens, but foldables are here to stay. And I've been using the Galaxy Z Fold 5 as my daily driver for a while now. It is very expensive and it's insane. They're going to charge this much money for a phone, a better replace, your phone, your tablet and your laptop. And this thing tries to do it. The fold, the Z Fold 5 tries to do this between decks. You can use the optional S Pen with it. And yes, the front screen is a little thin. It's a little strange as a form factor, but it works really, really well. I know you've got the Pixel Fold, Tom. What do you like it? What I like about the Pixel Fold, and I haven't lived with the Z Fold, but I like that it looks like a phone when it's folded up. Like I can use it like a candy bar phone. There's no compromise on that. And then when I open it up, it folds flat and works like a Pixel, and pixels are good phones. I'm curious what gives the Galaxy Z Fold the edge in your... Yeah, for me, and no pun intended with edges here, when it comes to the Z Fold and the Z Fold 5 and in general with Samsung phones is they really put a premium on productivity. They're charging you a lot of money, but you can use this like a full computer. Yes, you can write on it. You want to run more than three to four apps on the screen at one time. Samsung lets you do that. Now, I'm a weirdo who likes to have multiple apps up. If I'm using the tablet space, the 7.6-inch internal display, I'll have at least three apps open. Maybe it's like a chat, my email. Maybe I'm sketching notes with the pen in another corner. Might be a video player. This is absurd usage. And I think if you're doing that, you should not be... If you're going to charge like nearly $2,000 for a phone, you should not be limited. The Google Pixel Fold lets you have three apps on the inner screen. You want to have two apps on the first screen? Check out my review at PCMag.com. We would explain how you do it. It's a trick. It's not technically or officially a thing. I just figured it out. So, I just have a really hard time being handheld when paying that much money for... Handheld by your handheld. That's right. It's in there. No, that makes sense. The Fold can be used for bigger and bigger things, whereas the Pixel's better at being used as a smaller thing, which is less of a reason to pay that much for it, right? So, yeah, I do get that. And that's a weird thing. I'll be talking pixels, by the way. I want to talk about this, because the pixels... Look, if you're like, hey, I want to take photos from my phone, you can't really go wrong with any Pixel. 7A, 8, 8 Pro. I mean, you can get like a one from like a four from years ago. It doesn't matter. All right, Google's really fantastic when it comes to their software. And they've they've really pushed the envelope when it comes to what can the phone do to an image that's captured? Because at some point, basically, the hardware is it's becoming homogenous. It's the same stuff. So, how are you going to get more detail out? What are you going to get? What shadows are going to be there? What are you going to actually have separation between your background and your foreground? What can you possibly do? Every pixel device I've used, including the Fold, the 8 and the 8 Pro, just phenomenal pictures, a little oversaturated. Yes, you can remove that because that's people kind of like that Samsung does something similar. But I got to say, Google's got great phones. And if you see my reviews, basically, I'm getting kind of bored saying this, like the image quality is excellent. Optically, image stabilization, fantastic, always good. And the 8, by the way, is just, I think is almost a steal at 699. Now, you also have Galaxy S23 Ultra listed in your list alongside the Pixel 8, Pixel 8 Pro, Pixel 7a. I get what you're saying, where the pixels and the Fold probably doesn't count because it's so expensive. But the pixels are good if you want the best user interface, the best camera for the price. They are great phones. What gets the S23 Ultra on this list? The S23 Ultra, I like to say, if you speak iPhone, this is like the Pro Max. It's the biggest, it's the most expensive. You can do everything. Basically, it's the Fold without Folding. That's what it is. And you don't have to spend as much. And you've got a little bit tougher materials because you've got like Victus 2 or whatever special version Corning makes with Samsung. Again, you've got just boatloads of power. The form factor is a little large. The corners are a little sharp. So if that bothers you, that's something you should really know about. It's essentially carrying a tablet in your pocket at 6.8, 6.8 in screen. But it's good luck trying to make it crash or good luck trying to be overly productive. You cannot, well, maybe somebody's going to take me up on this, but like it's very hard. It's very hard to push that thing beyond the point of usage because Samsung is thankfully still using Qualcomm chips in the U.S. and those chips, the Snapdragon 2 Gen 8, if I got that right, or maybe Snapdragon 8 Gen 2. That's 8 Gen 2. Got it. That is really quite amazing. Okay, so I like the way this is breaking down. The Pixel 8, 8 Pro and 7a for most users, right? From general use, the S23 Ultra, the Z Fold 5 for power users. I want to use my phone almost like a laptop or at least a tablet. What about the Flip, not the Fold, not the Pixel Fold or the Galaxy Fold, but the Galaxy Z Flip, the small compact case form factor? Yes. I don't know if this is the industry term or it's just what we've been calling it around the office, but we've got the Book Style. That's the big Fold. That's the big one. Then there's the Clam Show. So we've got the Clam Show. Even though arguably the Book Style one is Clam Show, but it makes the most sense, because you can close it with one hand. Now the Book Style, you close with two. I've got the Z Flip 5 on my hand here, and I've got a Razer Plus on my other hand here. Depending on the day, I will recommend either one, because these devices are quite cool, but they operate very differently because of the software. Hardware wise, Samsung's hardware is outstanding. It's got tougher materials. It can handle more water, but it's not dust proof. The Razer Plus is actually IP52 rated, so it's not really good with water, but it can handle dust better, which is kind of interesting. But the thing is, I hate to say this, the software is better on the Razer Plus. This is the way I put it, though. If you want to basically use the outer screen as a mini phone, and then you choose to open it, that's the Razer. If you're like, hey, look, I just want to use this. This is the Flip 5. If I want to use the Flip, and I just want to look at the screen as essentially like a glorified smartwatch, or that kind of thing, then this is fine. You can easily carry a 6.6 inch device in your pocket. So if you want to, the Razer Plus is basically a 2-in-1, and the Flip 5 is about two screens for one phone. It's like a form factor with a nice outer screen. Yeah, it's kind of like those old days where the LG had a little strip on the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Edge devices with the lights. It's like, yeah, it's useful. It's way more useful than strip lights or whatever. Sure. And you can make it operate similar to the Razer Plus if you jump through a lot of hoops. Again, check out my review to explain how to do that, too. But Samsung wants to give you that Apple-like experience where every app that runs on this small screen works really, really well. Motorola will warn you saying, hey, look, that might not work great, but then they're like, but you can use it. One holds your hand. So you can do it. Yeah, great. Modus is like, go for it. All right, let's wrap it up with budget. Somebody is like, you know what, I don't want to spend a lot of money. What's the best phone I can buy? Okay, so this will change per year because Samsung keeps updating them. This is the Samsung A14 5G. Samsung has this excellent style of taking their high-end features and bringing them down and down and down in line. So this has got 64 gigabytes of storage and you're like, hey, that's not great. But this has expandable storage, which I know in 2023 is not a thing. But so you can do that. So you don't have to worry about that. The display is quite good. You've got modern cameras like Samsung's cameras are really good. So this is the other thing, even when you have a lousy Samsung, these A-series phones would have been like flagships, I'd say approximately, you know, four years ago. So if you're like, hey, this phone stinks, it's 200 bucks and it's basically excellent for the price. And because it's Samsung, you usually get updates for about four years of OS, five years security, the A-series, I got a double check. But in general, Samsung supports their stuff quite well. So that is a great way to get a budget device that can last you a couple years. All right, we'll have links to all these in our show notes at dailytechnewshow.com. And of course, read the full reviews at PCMag.com. Let's check out the mail bag. On Friday, we talked to Tristan Jutra about creating GPT chat bots. Bodie from the Kilowatt podcast has been trying these out and wrote in with some observations. He says, at first, the GPT does most of what you want it to do. Over time, the GPT gets creative. And again, in my experience, goes off the rails. If someone is just starting out playing with GPT builder, I think it's helpful. But when you're ready to create a useful GPT, switch over to the configure tab and manually type your instructions, manually type custom instructions, stay closer to the overall intent of the GPT. It takes some trial and error, but the overall GPT is better. And he's made a couple of chat bots that if you have the GPT service, you can try them out. We'll have links in the show notes as well. One was created as a way to run a simulated residential house fire as an incident commander for fire service training. But if you're not in the fire service, he created a similar GPT that just gives you over the top scenarios that you can play around with. So go check those out at dailytechnewshow.com. Also, Andrew writes, offices have never been great places to actually get work done. But when I first started working more than 20 years ago, it was bearable. People taking calls from their desks was infrequent. And if so, in hushed voices. Most of the noise across a cube farm was from collaboration from your team, which you might want to tune into if you could help. But then the open office plan came along, he talks about the how it's noisy. And he's like, it's no wonder people want to work from home. He says remote work could potentially drop even further if all teams were local and had adequate workspace. I know in person collaborative time is still what draws me into the office when I do go. But most companies I've interacted with either keep hybridizing teams because they can't figure out the right talent locally or don't have dedicated team areas for collaboration or both. So he's saying the office isn't designed for people to want to come back to work. It looks like we might need a new revolution when it comes to the design of offices like you were talking about open offices, kind of great for the the the the renters of the place or the people leasing it. But for humans working there, it's stuck. And now we've got the we've gotten used to like having stuff at our own time our own pace. It'd be nice if somebody could redesign what would draw somebody the office. And I'm not talking about Instagram backgrounds like look it looks like grass on the wall. Right. Right. No, it's a it's a good point that if you wanted people to want to come back to work, keeping the open on floor plan was probably one of the big reasons that people wanted to stay away. I don't think it's the only reason I don't think it's necessary. I don't know if I agree with them that if they didn't do it, it would bring people back. People complained about cube farms quite a bit back in the day. But yeah, it's it's a point worth considering nonetheless. Thank you, I as actor for being with us. Where should people go if they want to follow more of what you're doing these days? Well, you're welcome, Tom Merritt, an audience of daily tech news show. You can find me at PC mag.com and reviewing all kinds of things, usually phones, tablets, mobile networks and all kinds of fun stuff because they keep coming up with phones. And I got to keep reviewing them. So check them out at PC mag.com. Patrons stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet. The band Kiffs is continuing on as digital avatars. And if you're like, well, that sounds familiar, ABBA, the 70s supergroup has been doing it as well. Is this the future of rock and roll? Is this how rock and roll never dies? We're going to talk about it. Stick around. You can also catch the show live Monday through Friday, 4 p.m. Eastern 2100 UTC. Find out more at DailyTechNewsShow.com slash live. We'll see you tomorrow.