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You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. Yeah, you are not just the bodyguard sitting outside the room, you are actually inside the room. Not just his bodyguard also but his friend. A very interesting story and like I say, Michael Jackson's name will always bring viewers, it will always bring attention. But first and foremost, how are you? I'm great, it's good to be here with you in London. Yeah, it's great and I want to try and inspire people. I admire what you do James, I think you are onto something here with your podcast. Thank you. All my friends have been on it, are raving to me. James English podcast like Alfie Best and Kirk Norcross. I think the way you interview style and the way you go, whatever's down is brilliant. Yeah, the good guys you've mentioned there. I wish them nothing but the best in life. Alfie's a great guy, he's also new documentary on Amazon which will give a lot of plugs so go and watch it people. But before we get into everything Matt, I always like to go back to the start with my guests. Get more of an understanding of you, where you grew up and how it all began. Yeah, so I was just a typical, I would say we were a poor, normal family where my mum was a stay-at-home mum, my dad worked at the Brunel Railway in Swindon. I'm from Swindon, born in Swindon. And I went to school five years old and I was horrendously bullied. I was picked on by one guy in particular and from age five to seven and that gave me the hunger to look after, to try and defend myself. And when you're under confident James, I didn't do very well at school, I failed all my GCSE exams. Now part of that was because I was an academically driven. So my mum's one of 14 children, my mum went on to be a solicitor. They've all got university degree. So my dad's side, they will get a trade, become an electrician, become a plumber. You know, my grandfather used to give me lectures about what are you throwing your legs around in the air for? That's not going to get you in there. My dad used to call the martial arts legalized violence. They didn't, none of my family supported it. But my mum, bless her, used to say, there's no such word as can, you can achieve whatever you want. So I started martial arts due to the school bully. And it was the best thing being bullied. I'll know some of your viewers, listeners might be thinking, what the heck? But being bullied was the cat of this whole thing in my life. If it weren't for the kid next to me who said, you need to defend yourself against this guy. He's called Anthony, we're good friends now, by the way, we should get on to later. Anthony, you need to defend yourself, come to this martial arts class. None of this will have happened. The Michael Jackson stuff, the money, the business, everything, the success, the biggest brand in the world in martial arts. So I went to martial arts class with my friend to defend myself. The first class took with Jiu Jitsu. And I didn't like it so much. I didn't like the people rolling on top of me and all that sweaty men on top of me. So that wasn't for me. I can't tell on the podcast, but on 6th or 4th, I've always had very long, lanky legs. In the room next door, there was Taekwondo. For whatever reason, I could already do the high kicks, the splits, I could already do that. I do believe a lot in genetics. My grandfather on my mom's side, he was seven times I was weightlifting champion, was picked for the 1960 Rome Olympics. I never inherited his bodybuilding type physique. He used to train with sports nagging when he was in London and people like that. They didn't like each other. But he hoped to have one of his 14 kids, someone to have an athletic drive, then had all these grandchildren burst out. And I'm the only one who's shown the athletic side. So he took me under his wings. I was lucky to be mentored in that area. And he pushed me. Even I was doing bad at school and he wanted all his children to be university graduates. He pushed me to pursue this martial arts dream. I just knew for some reason this is what I wanted to do. I found something where I went to and I got praise from my tutor, my instructor. You're good at this. You find that rather at school. You'll be told on rubbish it is no good. Trying to avoid the bullies, getting beaten up in the playtime and so on. So a buddy kid at school, no one paid attention to me. They assumed I was right-handed. I was in fact left-handed. They didn't find out until I was 14 years old. A bit too late to correct that. So I can't write. I can write to myself. But you understand it. I can understand it. But honestly, James, it hasn't helped me up. I have to sign an autograph or sign a signature. When I get to hotels and stuff, my wife does the paperwork. I went to the bottom bit. In fact, the hotel I stayed last night was cool. It was done on an iPad. So it's even better. And let's go with no qualifications. I lived in Swindon. Like I said, I didn't want to step on top of my martial arts structures footsteps because it's not a thing you do. It's very respectful of martial arts. So moved to a place called Barnstable in North Devon. My parents didn't believe that it's just the right path. They were very mad at me for failing my GCSEs. And I lived in a bed set for 30 pound a week with a girlfriend at the time. And yeah, I got addicted three times, got into a rented property eventually, and then something clicked. I started studying Tony Robbins and finding people out there and modeled them who's already doing it. And I saw people in America. Back then, we had no internet. We had Myspace and a bit of email. Back in 97, I heard out there, people were making a multimillionaires out of martial arts business. And I saved up enough money working for £2.75 as a lifeguard, because in the summer you've got loads of work and the tourist area in the winter there's nothing. And then charging £3 in the class of my martial arts classes, but I wasn't doing it right like I am now. I got a flight to a convention in San Francisco where there was literally over a thousand multimillionaires being mentored by a business guru. He was in his 80s. He recognised his 17-year-old admired the fact that he used my last money to fly out and get to the convention. I went out to introduce myself. People don't do that. It's not normal. And he said, listen, you've come up to introduce yourself. This guy with his own shares of Marriott hotels, very successful man, Nicholas Cocinas. He said, I want to take you under my wing. I want to make an example of you. You used your last money to come here. You're so young. And for him, it would have been a big project to have like a case study, you know? So he did that. And he got me to follow the greatest business in the martial arts sector in America. I spent two weeks getting up at four in the morning, taking notes down. He didn't know if it's going to work in the UK, this new concept. And he said, but try it. I brought it back to UK and a long story short. Some of it did. Some of it didn't. The high fives and hugs don't work in the UK. But I was the first one, the first guy, well, the first guy to put people on stand-in order payments for martial arts, to professionalize it, take out the dark ages, put music on the lessons, have an educational element. So we everything the school system teaches. And there's nothing that there's a gap we teach. So they don't teach like goals, set, determination, good debt, bad debt. But you're going to have challenges in life. Good manners, fire safety, water safety, stranger danger, online, offline. Kids are sat down. They have a topic for the month. They get homework. A topic could be like good manners. And it's all built around that for a month. So it's packaged around great martial arts tuition, but with life skills like a private school. We don't call ourselves the Map for this martial arts clubs. We are private school. We teach everything the academic system the government do don't teach. And that's how I built my career. Why do you think bullying is such a massive trigger for people to either become the hero or the villain? But why do you think it's so crucial in people's lives that every criminal I've interviewed are bullied? They were bullied at some stage. Some people you've used as a positive and done a lot of positives in life. You've went down the other route, which is very, there's not many people doing that because a lot of people have anger, vengeance. They want to have back and kind of fight back and retaliate, but you went down another route. Why do you think bullying is a massive fangle for people in life? I had all that. I had the anger and the vengeance. I wanted to show the bully. I'm going to freaking, I'm going to make this happen. You know, I want to show my mom and dad. I'm going to make my grandparents and my family. I want to prove to everyone. One of my other brothers is very academic. He went to university to his 29, got degrees in car design, went to apprenticeship at Ferrari, credible, academically driven. But for me, just for me, but I think you've got to use it as a catalyst to where it may be. Some people may get down the drug route, the crying route. For me, it was, I will show you. The hunger was in my belly. I will show you and prove you wrong and I'm going to get you one day, you know? In terms of defend myself. That never happened, of course, because martial arts teach you to avoid conflict, not if you're doing it the right way, the right instructors. But no, you're right. From every successful person in the world or every criminal, there's a pain point that's driven them to get there. So I know a lot of entrepreneurs and millionaires and billionaires, they've all had a pain point in their life which they do not want to return to. So people, by nature, avoid pain and work towards pleasure. And for me, it got me, I wanted vengeance. I wanted to get back on them. Do you think that's just like a little shield? Because success and materialism, it doesn't take away the pain. It helps, of course. And people say, yeah, but I'd rather cry in a fucking Ferrari than anything else. But the real flex is not crying. The real flex is trying to enjoy life and they're being happy as you can be. For my own opinion, and try to learn through the years and try to understand life a bit more, where I can give people an understanding of it, who watch or listen. Because I'm still trying to figure it out. I've interviewed so many different people and I realize that nobody's got a clue what the fuck is going on. We all talk a good game. We all run businesses. We all try and do well. We all try and succeed. But everybody's defined success differently. But for me, looking at it, a man who provides for his family, a man who's there, that's the real success for me. The man who really puts it together. Yeah, and this is stuff that's come with wisdom, James. I'm 44, so now I know the stuff I try and mentor other business owners, entrepreneurs on my franchisees. It's hard to teach that stuff because you have to go through the school of hard knocks, maybe go for a divorce. You lose a loved one, you know? What really matters, is I did this TV show, Rich House Poor House, the two episodes, and you swap families. And honestly, my kids, I've got six children. My children were more happy with having daddy not allowed to be on his phone in a council house, in a tough estate. On a budget of 110 pounds a week, they're living in the mansion with the Faris, Lamborghini, Bentley's, iPads. They're more happy. And when they interviewed them privately, this program has changed my dad. We've got daddy back. Normally I'll go to expensive, like, Legoland or something like that with them. No issue, VIP treatment. I was going to graffiti play parks that were just like ruins, but they were just so happy there. And they had little plastic toys to play with. And yeah, I've never seen them so happy. So it's a big learning curve. Success is a journey. It's not a destination. So it's writing what you say, I am not content. I should be. And my wife has to remind me a lot of the times, what's wrong with you? Why do you still got this drive? Because you pretty much materialistic stuff. Got everything. But that's not enough for me. There's nothing else I can buy. It's a fire in my belly. And the bullion never stops, James. I get bullied every day. I get trolled. I get hated on. That's life. And you've got to learn to accept that if you want to be an entrepreneur. Michael Jackson used to tell me, if you haven't got people talking about you, then there's something wrong. And the Urie Geller used to teach me a very important lesson. The haters, the trolls, the people that talk about you, they're free publicists. Have as many of them as you possibly can. And like people who buy likes and followers, I wish you could buy haters because they're the best publicists in the world. They make you go viral. They make your news stories go crackers. And I've seen this with billionaires, mega stars behind the doors. They sit down and think, how can we make the whole world talk about us? And that's what makes you successful. You've got to stand out from the crowd. It's like a contradiction with me sometimes. I know I just should be back in Scotland with the family, the dogs and everything. It's amazing. But there's part of me wants to succeed and raise the bar and travel and do all the other stuff to then provide a life for the family as well. So you can't be there back there if I can. But again, I know the best things in life are free. And as cheesy as that shit is, it's so fucking true. And but it's to try and find the balance, which I think I'm okay about. What do you think that is with people that you can't settle or they can't feel content with everything that they have? Is that greed? Does that, what is that? Yeah. Well, I was married before. I call it my rehearsal wife rather than ex-wife. We get on very well. We've got two little children with her. We've got, you better hope so. She's married happily. And actually Jamie, she's married to her husband. It does work for me. He's got a maintenance business with my properties and it's funny actually because when people price a lot of jobs and he's around, he's always stepped farther to my three oldest daughters. And they're trying to always matter for this. We can put a bigger invoice in. And he's like, you do realize I'm stepped out. They don't realize the decorator behind the scenes is like inside of me, but we have a great, great relationship me and Marcy are doing. And she's been awesome with the kids. So at first with divorces, when the family get involved, it can be a bit tough. But one thing we've done is put the kids first. So we don't have this half brother, half sister business. I've got three daughters of her and two boys and a daughter of Monique, my wife. And it really was a rehearsal because I needed to learn what was important because I ruined that marriage with my fault because I was a workaholic. And then when I got home, I didn't appreciate she had three babies to look after. I would say hi to the kids for a bit, put my gym gear on because I peeked at my early 20s and in quarter past nine, go to the gym until I passed 10 to get my worker in and then I couldn't sleep. So I buzzed up from the train. I'd be up to three in the morning working and then when Michael clicked his fingers, I would wrongly or rightly, I would jump to wherever he was in the world to help him. I kind of got pulled into that and he was my mate and he was vulnerable. So my first marriage was ruined by me being selfish and putting my career goals to success first when in fact I could have retired at 22, but I was about to say, what the hell am I going to do? I tried it. I ended up on anti-depressants and sleeping pills. My friends have to go to work still. There's nothing to do. So many holidays you can do. I don't drink, don't smoke. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? I'm 44. I've got to do something. So I like my thrill when you really get down to, I love changing people's lives. I love it when kids get a black belt, mum and dad crying, bullied at school and no longer bullied. They're labeled with all these conditions. They're not saying they don't exist, but when I did start my career, they didn't exist. It's as naughty kids. Now we've got autism, all these levels and ADHD. Parents bring them to us because we treat everyone as an individual, not as a group like the school system does. And I love seeing these kids which are given these conditions and I make them become confident, successful, give them positive role models and change lives. That's what keeps me buzzing and making people millionaires. I love doing all that. How long did it take you to get a black belt? It's just the old system, right? So it took me, I started martial arts when I was seven. I was black belt when I was 12. Five years? Yeah. That's faster? That's fast. But I was training like six days a week. I was a bit of a Bruce Lee in that. Getting up before in the morning, we had one TV in the house. I know everyone's support now with their own TVs in every room. We used to get up early to watch John Cole Van Damme movie Bruce Lee before the family got up. I knew my mum and dad would tear me off because it's over 18 stuff. But yeah. I mean, I was a martial arts nuts, complete fanatic, trained all the time. And now you get your black belt quicker because modern world, we know it's not about the time it takes. I could take someone and train him for six months. I know we better than someone who trains once a week for 20 years. It's about the intensity. We've come a long way in the last 27, 28 years. Did you ever come across Jeff Thompson? Yeah. Yeah. I used to read him in the magazines. I believe it was. He was a fantastic guy. Yeah. He was one of the pioneers of getting the martial arts in the mainstream. Jeff was. And as a kid, I used to ride my BMX bike by Martial Arts Illustrated Magazine. Read all about Jeff Thompson and Alfie Lewis and everyone. And yeah. And I ended up being, being the one. Well, the editor Bob Sykes of Martial Arts Illustrated said, other than Bruce Lee, I have had the most front covers due to the controversy around making money with martial arts and also got a lot of thousands of hundreds of thousands of students who are going by it and used to wind them up. But yeah, Jeff was one of the originals. And yeah, one of the real iconic legends of Alfie Lewis. And his story is deep as well and dark from what he went through in his past and from the Bouncer and that. And then he just clicked and he's just absolute animal. If you've seen Jeff in the street, you wouldn't think anything of it. No. That's the scary thing about Martial Arts and stuff. Yeah. Because I used to train in a grip house and do a bit of Muay Thai and skateboarders and you would never think of it. And they would never raise their voice and get angry. But if I go to the pub with the boys, they can't fight. Everybody's loud and daft and they think they can take on the world. It's so fucking crazy when you think about it. How did they... So you've been through all that. Obviously, people want to know the Michael Jackson stuff, but that all came from meeting Euregela. Yeah. How did that start? So I had five schools. I made this business streamlined and I was making a million and half a year with the five schools. Profit. I had no overhead, something like school halls, £15 for the whole night and a building in Barstow, which cost me £250 a month from rent. I had no overheads. So when you got, you know, 1,500 students paying you on average of £60 a month plus the other thing, exam fees and merchandise it soon adds up. So in North Devon, I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's very isolated where you've got Barstow, Billiford, Ilfakum, South Malton and it's all, that's basically a cut-off area. So it's like five towns and five schools. The next place is a place called Tiverton which is about 40 miles away. In my mind, I felt I couldn't go there because who am I going to get to work for me? It's hard enough to get to work for me as a good James. I was 18 and I was employing 40-year-olds, 35-year-olds working for an 80-year-old. They found that very strange, but we had the martial arts with respect there, so it worked. So, I was in the reception of my main building of our martial arts school in Barstow and a guy comes up to I remember his name. I need to look him up actually and thank him some stage. A guy called Nick Constable and he said, Matt, I worked as a news agency. I've got a boy and a girl who trains with you. We love what you do. I know you're a buddy at school. You've got no qualifications and I see a Ferrari parked outside. Any chance I can interview you and I picture the view in the car and try and get it in the newspaper? I was thinking local newspaper, right? So, I had two goals. Tony Robbins called it significance. I was looking for recognition. I made it. I've done it. I proved the bullies wrong. I proved my parents wrong. I've ever wanted to doubt it. I've actually done it. I'm making crazy money to turn my passion into my profession. I was the first in the industry to do this as well in the UK. I got hated on it. Big time. Gossiped about, but that's just the way it is. And anyway, did the interview and he said to me, I'll put this on the wire. I didn't know what that meant and I've always had the local paper. Nothing happened for about three days and this is back when mainstream media was massive like 97, 98. So tabloids would get 20 million publications picked up a day. There was no online news. Next day, three days later, my landline was ringing off the hook. I walked into town. Everyone's staring at me talking about me and I was on the front page of every single, the male, the son, the mirror, the lot, the guardian, bully boy becomes a millionaire. I had a picture of me in the car me doing a punch and a flashback to a picture of me in my school photo when I was like seven years old. I was like, wow, this is intense. I thought the local newspaper. So I want to be, I have that significance within the local paper. They're not being international news. And my other dream was the magazine I used to buy with Jeff Thompson was always in. I want to be featured in that. The editor made me work for that. He called me up and said, look, you're in the news but you need to come to Huddersfield where Marshal, I see this straight as headquarters won't fight me. And this guy's got like 10 ninths dance and stuff. And I want you to fight me. You make a lot of money I'll see you the real deal. If you are, I'll put you on the front cover and like, whoa, that's like a dream. I'm a BMX bike with my pocket money to buy that magazine every month. And I did that. I got beaten up but he said at the end of it, fair play. Yeah, you're different. And then he put me on the front cover. He did a flying kit top corner. I was so proud. And then I ended up being on the front cover all the time. It was one of the things but they're comfortable story led to mainstream media going viral and then TV producers look for stories back then by going through the newspapers. They do online newspapers nowadays that they saw as an interesting case for show. So I ended up, I think you'll remember these shows like Trisha was a big time morning show. I was on there, Keeloy, Esther Ramson, Richard and Judy, GMTV back then. And then that came to the attention of Yuri Geller. And he's in the UK is known for spoon bending. Bit like Tony Robbins is known for the fire walking, right? Moving the fucking bowl you're on 86 in Scotland. You need to tell him I have a lot done on Island in Scotland. Yeah. Apparently he says he moved the bowl with the noodles and McAllister must have been watching this. He watches everything I do. Yuri is world famous in every country in the world. I don't think UK's ever really given him the respect he deserves because his property, Tycoon's incredible. He's telling me don't we build any more land map. Stop buying these for our investment money and property. Maybe buy five houses per month. He's quite tough on me. I hated him for it but I love him for it now and he's also so positive. You know, like the way he fought he set keeping you healthy. So it'd be quite tough on me, James. But he took me under his wing. He trusted me if he's in a circle. Why? I don't know. I never asked him the question. I should do it. Shouldn't I? Even now we talk every day. He's got his museum, the Yuri Geller museum. The things when he worked with Alvis president what he gave in John Lennon and all his life. So he's famous for 50 years. I stayed relevant. But I don't know. I guess because I was already financially independent, I didn't need anything from him. His home is incredible. Next to George Clooney's home in Sodom on Thames. It's like a 20 million pound palace replica of the White House. So when those gates open and I went to visit him for the first time, I think I want to be where this guy is. You know, I knew the spoon bending thing was a UK more thing. When you go around the world with Yuri Geller, it's more about him filling stadiums about mind power, positive thinking, setting goals, never give up. Much like what Anthony Robbins does. He does a firework, Yuri does the spoons, bending metal and so forth. But he took me under his wing. I guess he saw something in me. I became very close to my mother and family. And he wanted to make a video about bullying. So he wanted to meet me. And he sent his people to contact me. He wanted to do mindset to avoid bullies and avoid them and stay positive. You can be even without school qualifications and have me do the self-defense side. And we're going to give it free to all the schools at that time. We didn't end up doing that video. We ended up doing a video where he did, we did four videos, VHS ones, worldwide release, where he did positive mind thinking, power of the mind. And I came on the kickbox and Robix. It was like number one in Asia and all around the world. Because I don't know if you know Yuri Geller, he's a Pokemon figure, from Nintendo. So he was massive in Asia and stuff. So I went to number one around there and I was promoting this video with him. Yeah. And then once he let me in his doors and we got this trust. I mean, he became father, along with Michael and everyone, for my first child. And also Michael's best friend, Mark Leslie, who played the original Oliver Twishman. Please, sir, give me more, the film, the original one. At the same age, we grew up together. He trusted me, big style. He knew I didn't, you know, I kept secrets very well and looked after him too. And yeah, then my life just took another step further. They went mental. Yeah, it's mad that he changed my life. Yeah, it's mad that he's known for the spin. But like you say, he's an entrepreneur and he's more to it. Yeah. Do you know what he says? You can't be a prophet in your hometown. Meaning that all the TV shows he's got around the world, the next Yuri Geller phenomenon in America is where people audition to be like him, bit like X Factor Brits Got Talent. He's actually a judge on Israel's Got Talent. He just feels that it's the same, that you can't be a prophet in your own town. They will hate on you the most. Like Michael Jackson never toured America. He was hated by Americans. Not everyone, obviously, but he didn't have, he couldn't pull off a tour there on his own, you know, for all the big tours you know about. He avoided America. He didn't want to live there. He lived most of the time in the UK. And same thing, can't be a prophet in your hometown. And I know that's true, because when I got successful in North Devon, they gave me a flippin' hard time. When I moved away, now when I go back, they say, thanks for putting basketball on the map. And I think, yeah. You put me through fricking hell, man. You're feeding the rules, killing maps and everything. Yeah, because it's a stupid story. He's making stories up about me and the fares and stuff and gossiping. Now when I go back they come and shake my hand, can I have a selfie? You put basketball on the map. It is weird, that and that. Glasgow, I get support in Glasgow. No, but there's a lot of fucking idiots as well with talk shit. People who think they knew me who were never in my company says I get chased out of the place I was from and he's not this guy, and I never done, and I'm thinking, you never even knew me anyway. You think you would get the most support From the place, but yeah, that is a very true scene that it makes sense But you know on that subject of people don't know you so most people got an opinion of me I've never met me all of them. I've never I don't meet many people I mean I've got my tight in a circle. That's it. I've probably five or six people close friends I mean, that's the way it works the higher you go up the ladder the closer your friendship circle is When I go to events so Bob Sykes was editor that magazine that Jeff Thompson used to be always in martial arts The biggest one for martial arts in the world. He runs an event once a year called the UK martial arts show He said to me map do me a favor I've done you a lot for you in your career. You've been on the cover like constantly Just turn up for me at this martial arts show here I just done rich house poor us at the time as well. I was like, ah Bob I don't know how are they gonna react because I get trolled on by every martial artists What I do is I make a lot of money from it And although that ties change a lot of people trying to copy me now Because I realized you continue passion professionals still have that high standards So I did it for him. I went to Doncaster dome wet from the second I entered the building I was absolutely so I made sure you have security there and everything because you can't fight if I if I hit Someone knocks one out. I'm going to jail. I'll be all over the press my career is over I can't defend myself, right? I'd rather someone beat me up because it'll kill my career because of the media I just can't be Michael Jackson Knock someone out if they won't give me a fair go as soon as I entered that martial arts convention There's probably thousand might I got mobbed where it's such an extent. They had to form a queue of people In front of him Bob kind of knew this was gonna happen. He's very clever He's been in this industry a long time. He came over to me. He said you're right map. So yeah I'm sweating selfie, you know sign them about because listen, let me tell you something See that person in the queue down there. That's the person that's been trolling on you onto that person there That's the person was like, you know, he's got another queuing up. They're you real fans and in that queue too I had people like master scan sandy hole people. I used to look up all coming for for a photo like in Wow, it's keep all warriors James. It don't really mean it when you actually meet them face to face They're your biggest fans. They hate it on you because they don't understand you. It's that the problem is not with me It's with them. It's never it's their Realization of their own world in their own environment. It's a problem. Yeah, they don't understand it Once they get to meet me. I'm a normal guy. I wear a tracksuit Oh, they call me my builders laugh at me because when I have building constructs on 90% I'm in a tracksuit. I'll go outside and like you're the multi-million there. We builders. I'll come we're dressed better than you You know, don't make sense, but I'm not gonna be saying I'm not I'm just I like to think I'm a relatively Normal humble guy, you know, and that's what's got me where I am. So how did it then come about? You're just to make a Jackson one of the biggest superstars of all time Some people would claim he has the biggest of all time. Obviously, you get the Beatles Elvis But how did it come about you ended up bodyguard and good friend with again equal Jackson So Yuri Geller is world famous and he mentored a lot of famous people on mindset Keep it in positive private clients. I had no idea that Michael Jackson was one of them he designed Michael's last album invincible the cover of invincible. He's a very good artist Yuri Geller is and I didn't know any of this then I saw phone calls when I would go walking with Yuri phone calls from very famous people to ring And presidents and stuff like that So 3 a.m I get a phone call on the landline at home That's not uncommon for Yuri and people who are world famous because they've got multiple countries They need to be doing tv interviews for Australia and so on And he said you got to come to my house now Geez I've only just got better. We've been better now. So what's going on? He said I can't tell you Come to my house now. I've never guided you wrong Okay, you've got to tell me I've got to tell my missus. I think I'm having a fair or something He said Matt, trust me. I can't tell you got a Ferrari stop moaning Getting your car seen a few hours. Love you. Bye. Put the phone on me Looked up my missus and bed thinking this we had a massive row And I got on a car arrived at Yuri's house Nothing really gave any signals the gates opened up went down his driveway. There's three blacks out suvs outside I walk in And get into his he's got many living rooms one of the living rooms he uses is a smaller one And this guy stands up frail guy walks up to me And he bows to me He says hi master for this My name is Michael Jackson. Pleased to meet you And first of all I thought because look back then James, we had all these prank TV shows, right? And yellow was a bit of a Yuri's boss of the actor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you um, Jamie Jeremy B. Do that's another one too the wind up ones where they would get you and Like a punk king. I think that's something of Jason oppism I thought yeah, yeah, I thought it was look like he's under me on and there's looking for secret cameras Like quite quickly. I realized if I'm dealing with a real deal here You could tell right away, you know, and I got on with him like a house on fire It turns out he was a black belt Joseph Jackson his dad made sure all the Jackson five were trained up in kung fu So he he studied martial arts to defend himself for obvious reasons Jackson five and famous is his five And he wanted to take him and his best friend Mark Leicester to the next level He wanted to become a second degree So Yuri's told him that you could trust Matt. He's a multimillionaire. He won't need anything from you I can organize you to carry the train and he used martial arts is Bruce Lee fanatic Michael was He used martial arts to um in his dance moves if you watch his dance He puts kick in the block every now and then and so forth And that was the thing he wanted me to take him to the next level and the other agenda he had He was desperate So he would study the world's greatest learn from them and implement that into his mindset and take it and put it Into something so he he he wouldn't ever say it's the Michael Jackson dance He stood the best on James Brown Fred Astaire ginger Rob He's put it all in Charlie Chaplin put it all in his own unique style and martial arts Bruce Lee So one of the first conversations we had is listen. I'll do you a deal You teach me how to break boards properly. I'll teach you the moonwalk. That's that's fine, Mike The other thing too. I need to get to Bruce Lee's daughter and his ex-wife Can you make it happen? I hear you can and I was friends with somebody who knew Shannon Lee and Also knew lindley Bruce's ex-wife. I said to Mike, why do you want to meet them? He said, oh, I want to find out why my Bruce Lee's relevant all these 40 years on You know, why is he still relevant and why is he still the biggest martial arts star ever? What made him tick what made him get up train work so hard? I want to speak to his ex-wife learn from his daughter absorb everything I can And that was one of the first conversations we had And from there on we became firm friends for a year back and forward to America he would fly me in and Kept it secret. I mean it was hard for me James because I was 18 19, right? So I couldn't tell anyone where I was my wife I couldn't tell my wife where I was was just a case Someone to get the blame for the paparazzi turn than that And and he's very paranoid So I'd rather just not tell anyone including my wife where we were in the world at any given time And I was his mate at this point not his bodyguard So when I come home people say to me, where'd you do for the weekend? You know where you've been for last week. I'll make it up. I'll just say went to beach and And uh Stayed in watch movies. I can't say I was hanging around with Britney Spears Michael Jackson Justin Timberlake The Darrell hannah David Blaine uriga. They think I'm flipping loopy. So I beg Michael in the air. That's a mic You got to help me out man. This is my I can't keep this thing secret. So, okay I got there's a book launch in London Do you want to come with me? So yeah, I'll come with you. So I Would we get ready? He takes like hours to get ready. He becomes Michael Jackson. It's all an act, right? You probably work that one out. He's not really like wacko jacko. He's behind it all But all I make up on and all the rest of it took him flipping hours to get the room He come out looking completely different. Not like I've seen him before And then we turn up and he got mobbed by paparazzi Because I'm the martial arts guy six foot four. I had big muscles back then. I don't need them anymore So let them go. I I am more about longevity now that nonsense. Yeah I was the guy protecting my mate. He was very vulnerable very shy from this media scrum. I was going to this book launch And then that story went viral You know map for this is now Michael Jackson's body on official body. I was on the payroll And I think he knew what he was doing. I then found out I could tell he was under financial massive distress his security builds 150 000 Per month just his personal security. That's without his kids. That's another security team Neverland was one million a month to run. He had 150 security staff there And I could tell and and his regular security guys he's had for for 20 years through his Friller bad era and dangerous tools had gone and retired And he kept on changing him and he can no longer answer his phone around him And stuff and he in it. I could tell he was hinting and I said look I don't know anything from you Michael. He tried to offer me crazy money to come full time But I have my businesses and I have my kids I don't know anything from you, but whatever you want Whatever you are, I'll be you know, that's one of his songs. I'll be there. I'll be there for you and Yeah, and he took it proper man I mean that guy would ring me when I was on holiday and trying to repair my first marriage and we went to repair in Lanzarote and Michael called I'm out in New York. I'm going on the Concorde I need you to pick me up a Heathrow terminal five. I can I'm trying to repair my rehearsal marriage, you know This ain't gonna help. I'm out. If you really love me, you'll be there and I've got no one else I could try to pick me up from the airport And I then I made up I couldn't find a flight Because because my ex was like you're not going back. You're married to me not to Michael Jackson You're not going back to London. He can sort that out sort that out. So I said, I couldn't find any flights Well, he's Michael Jackson and he saw that private plane within now for an hour to take off and come and pick me up and Yeah, I was there like a mug. I don't know why I did it and uh Marcy went back to Bance after two days of this so-called holiday in Lanzarote and I picked Michael up and stayed living with him for a couple of weeks I tried to get around and she came and stayed with us with the kids In the hotels week for a couple of weeks, but uh Yeah, she went too impressed But no, it was a friendship that I took over a security operation for free Because I had access to all these martial artists who are instructors working for me Wait for three I didn't want to take any money off the guy I was already a millionaire and I could see everyone around me milking the guy. It was a joke, man I saw dot botters coming in and I would go in the bathroom and I could hear whispering going on To say if you give me ten thousand pounds, I'll take you up and introduce you to Michael Jackson This is like doctors are supposed to be caring for him and there will be exchanges of money going on And then they will take the fan in to meet Michael. So Michael's one of your biggest fans They've got a disability and oh, thank you so much and they meet them and do a picture of them Like I they would tell me they paid ten thousand pounds for this privilege, you know And it was going on the trouble is I wasn't in the position to go to Michael and say Michael your doctor Is ripping you off here or this bodyguards taking money and selling stories on you because I was in my early 20s I was just a karate guy called it to him. I was his mate. I didn't feel I could have that conversation with him I did towards the end, but I didn't I didn't have the conversation with him and uh Yeah, it was sad to see what went on people were just milking the guy for money Constantly and I didn't need it and we had this relationship. Which is non-transactual all my friends I have We I don't know money for anything. We just I scratched their back. They scratched mine And we talked about if we best before we went on there He came down to my event recently and I went to his movie premiere for him for He's number one now in amazon. I promoted this thing for him his movie for him Not because he asked me to because we have this non-transactual relationship And that's the same with all of my friends. It's always worked out for me So me and Michael although he offered me crazy money. I didn't take it. I knew he couldn't afford it I didn't need it and I didn't always have to be there myself I'd all organize it from a distance and I bring my brother-in-law to stay outside the hotel suite all night People I could trust and my my actually one of my little brothers as well and And the people around me who I could trust they they they're around and we did it all for free And because of that he opened doors for me James. He taught me how to franchise He taught me he taught me how to think big There's five locations. I've got a north devon stop being a format We had a conversation not far from here the renaissance hotel in higher holborn. I remember it very well Um, Billy and ass don't want you they get sick of you especially him people always say our thrillers good He knows the thrillers good. All right. He knew all that you your moonwalks are made. How would you do it? Same questions They want to ask questions about you. So he'd quiz me About what you're up to how much much business in so grab got these five schools But the next town is tibetan is 40 miles away. I can't go anywhere else So of course you can I got a biggest selling album in the world on poor boys from gary indiana My daddy Vashu's red handouts nine kids in a two-bed house in gary indiana a rough place Look what's happened to me? But why what makes you think? That's why how can I get someone to drive there? It's called franchising It's called licensing get building a brand I said but no one's ever done that before in martial arts because exactly that's why you gotta do it He pointed to me real staring in the eyes, you know, and and he wrote down on the napkin They were not that the notepad for the renaissance hotel all the things I need to do Build a brand learn how the mainstream media works use mainstream media show and benefit creator wouldn't win Scripts are manuals for everything Focus on not the money, but an incredible service of product than the byproduct of the money He don't focus on money. Michael did incredible art music the byproduct was the money And then he introduced me to his branding lawyer attorney the what he called in america And because he had the biggest endorsement ever He's the first celebrity at the biggest door. I think about 80 million for pepsi cola That's when all the celebrity endorsements came on from so he understood the branding and how he rented out the michael jackson name And he talked about a brand that he kept me accountable So from that day my conversations were very different. I used to botch him when he called me I say to my ex-wife. I had to turn my ringing back because he's keeping account. I mean school job done that How many students you got? Oh, I've done 10 more and I threw the question back to him. How are you doing, Mike? And I said, I'll just sign an 80 million dollar to tall career and I come off the phone feeling like crap I got up my game. He's my mate's kicking my ass But I was part of this unique incredible mastermind It wasn't just about michael jackson. It's mohammed or fly addon everyone We had part on the dinner table with us our friendship circle I didn't realize at the time but your network is your net worth so you become not just money but how you think your health and they they thought about changing the world and The money's the year rewards money. They don't talk about people gossip or nothing like that. It was proper thinking Well, how about a fire was extremely influential and took me under his wing? He was awesome used to shut harris and for michael and just go dinners around his house and Used to say to me you're you're 20 map You're sat in like look who's around this table And uh You're here while the yellows are out getting drunk That's why you need to be absurd the masses and do the opposite So we're here creating ideas to change about whatever out getting drunk and then We'll succeed by having them Come by our products or services. So he was very smart was a how was is an individual maco But did they enjoy being michael jackson or was because he looked obviously sad and drained like you say frail sometimes That he enjoyed being michael jackson He he yeah He loved being michael jackson, but he he used to say to me. I wish I had the choice He didn't have a choice. He doesn't know not being the megastar, right? So his learning memories are only being with motown at five and So used to say to me wish he had the choice of being a superstar Because he doesn't know any different But to say he didn't I know he was sad and I've many times I've had people come to me and say can you go and see They refer to him as mr. Jackson because he mr. Jackson because he's crying in this living room in this hotel suite And I'll go and see him and sit down with him and say mike. What's wrong the curtains have to be drawn james It's not a nice environment. I know everyone thinks it's glitz and glamour for michael It wasn't he couldn't go anywhere do anything we were in munich He had a no joke he had a thousand fans outside chanting his name all day and night We didn't get any sleep and he's crying curtains are very dark in the room And I said what's wrong? He said I just want to be successful So wow You got the biggest sound amount of all-time michael you got thousand people out screaming screaming your name You've got 80 000 people you're performing tonight with a constable michael jackson and friends You're the top act got people through all over the world that What do you mean? He said I want to be successful He his problem is his competition was himself He wanted to beat friller Which I couldn't tell him because he wouldn't accept it What never happened because we're in the digital age we're approaching and it was downloads and stuff and Those records don't didn't exist where you go to those big stores. They're around anymore Are they and He couldn't understand he didn't want to embrace the latest technology So he was trying to compete with himself. That was the issue everyone else. He smashed out of the park And it always Dance and every day whenever I say to him if you could change anything, what did you do? He would just say I'll just practice more and this guy was like dancing three hours a day always singing But the michael jackson thing it was an act Yeah, the fedora the mask the white glove the sticky tape on his fingers That was a creation that he did to manipulate Guarantee billions of pounds of of publicity that money couldn't buy And I learned that at the time But when he wasn't when the fans weren't outside the paparazzi wasn't outside He made sure they were he didn't like that either So it's kind of like a love-hate relationship bit like princess diana, you know because I watched the Elvis movies Well when he was crying and depressed because he was scared that it would be forgotten And he was the most popular as man on the planet at that time. It's sad how these talents then Damaged themselves by feeling never good enough or feeling constantly competition with theirself He said to me the only time I'm happy matt was when I'm on stage Or when I'm with my kids That's it. It's children And the only reason he does what he does is to fail the love From the fans that he didn't get from his family Or he died as a child Did they ever speak did they ever speak about you dad? Did michael speak about his dad? Yeah all the time. I was and we all encouraged I met joseph jackson many times and yeah, he is an intimidating figure Even though i'm six foot four and i've been built muscular guy back then. I mean he was like well What was joseph? I don't know nearly six foot lovely guy very very firm We had that presence about him that he's terrifying. I mean when he To get to michael people had to book a hotel book an appointment for us and joseph his dad We just he called him joseph because michael used to call him joseph He said don't call me dad call me joseph, you know, so you turn up and you're like I'm here to see my son So he'd find out where his son was staying because the media started to look at the media The hotel or the fans would be outside they'd turn up He once turned out with a sawn-off shotgun, right? And i'm with michael and I got told joseph jackson's here at reception. He's got a gun And he's threatening the barge's way in and he wants to get to michael for for good reasons because he wanted to Have an intervention to get certain doctors out of his life And I said to michael your dad's downstairs, Mike He said, okay, he needs an appointment. I said, well, what am I supposed to do? I sort of just want me to go down and tell your dad to go away and So went downstairs and it was a hell of a confrontation. It's like, you know, i'm coming through if you like it and he pushed his way through And the other bodyguards bottled it basically went up to the door I ran ahead I told michael your dad's coming out. He locked himself in the bathroom Locked the other door put the other door on and His dad hanged around for a couple of hours. I wanted his dad to have access to michael I said to him you'd let him in But he wouldn't have it because he didn't want to hear what joseph had to say Which is get this person out of you in a circle get rid of this person Joseph had his best interests at heart. That's his little boy. That's his son, you know But trouble is everyone around michael was yes, man Over to me and urie geller Urie geller is the only man i know who's actually shouted at michael and told him stop this stop that Stop daking this, you know, you're gonna kill yourself And um because of that michael got shut him out of his life. I kind of repaired it towards the end, but Yeah, it was uh, but the people had the greatest interest at heart like jermaine jackson and tito and His dad joseph. He was told by publicists and people around him Don't let them near you. They only want you to be part of jackson five again. They want your money, you know And he just Kind of believed them. He He forgave his dad in the end. We were going to do a speech at the oxford union Michael really wanted to do this. It's called heal the kids He liked it because mother trees have spoken there now some andela spoken there So he got an invite to speak and address the oxford union big deal He broke his leg at the time and still wanted to keep up the commitment in the car We had a quiet and intense conversation where we traveled from london. We took a car to the oxford union we found was the safest way to do it And he was quite upset because he was going to his speech which we rehearsed over and over again Was about his childhood and how is he felt his dad was tough on him Not having a dad being pushed to his career Being hit with about and all this type of stuff We had a rabbi with us at the time And the rabbi said look it's time for you to let go of this this stuff now You know, you you thought michael's 42. Then I think we did that when he did that speech Where's your dad? And michael said I don't know I said I found out I called one of his brothers I found his dad was in los vegas I got his number for joseph And then this rabbi called smooly buttec Rabbi smooly said it's time for you to before you do this speech at oxford union now ring your dad and forgive him And he said yes smooly. He said you're right. So he called up said hey joseph. It's michael It was kind of strange. It's almost like they didn't know each other It was like a distant cousin type thing So I just want to let you know all the things I said about you on Oprah winfrey and stuff in the media I just want to say I forgive you. I understand what you did We could have ended up in jail Me and my brothers for crimes and I've been on drugs and if it wouldn't for you being tough with us Like rehearsing them like you differ jackson five I wouldn't have this privilege to do this speech. That's all you know I'm talking about you tonight at the oxford union and joseph said I remember he's on loudspeaker He said oh no, what are you gonna say about me? What are you gonna say? So don't worry I'm gonna say what you've done was the right thing I thought you'd be harsh on me in places, but look what how many people's lives have been influenced and stuff and Yeah, I remember that phone call and uh, michael come off shut the phone down and he cried And uh, he felt like a big weight was off his shoulder and he did the speech He cried all the way through the speech of the oxford union and And he came away from that night, but he felt good. He felt really good and Yeah, it was uh, it was a crazy time. James when I look back at the time I just thought he's flipping normal, but it's not is it? Yeah, it's just my world I didn't know any different the thing I like about you matt though you you never You never really talk about anybody And you've always kind of kept a lot of private stuff to yourself Which I think how that's why you've got respect from these people and um And that's what probably why you've kept that circle And I will defend to death James any of my mates not just because they're famous I will defend any of my friendship circle family to death Or anything I do And that's that and if anyone's being wronged out there, I will put my neck out So, you know, let's not dodge the subject michael would choose who was accused of charminer station Multiple times. I've got one of the biggest biggest children's organization in the world I stuck by a side because I know the truth What happened there because I was with that guy for 10 years sleeping in A hotel room office suite while the other security were outside my family were outside I knew down. Wow, who's with matt neverland, right? I knew the guys who accused him and sued him for hundreds of millions recently who lost their appeals That documentary is made they didn't mention the fact that these two guys were sued in the michael jackson state For hundreds of millions of dollars. They skipped that bit quite poorly. A lot of people turn the channel over if they watched that We disproved everything within it and Yeah, michael jackson was told at a young age And we had this conversation so many times especially urie getter did Can you don't understand how the world perceived it? He was told by his record label motown records who discovered him Do not ever Get married Show anyone your sexuality don't talk about race politics or religion and Let people think you're gay straight but don't ever do it because you should say one of those things and clarify it You're going to cut off Some of your fan base you get married you can upset your female fans. That was how it was drummed into him from five years old When is the first jackson to get married with tito? When tito got married michael was so angry that tito that he thought it was the end of the jackson five That was that he was furious And when germane got married as well as the same so the truth for the matter is the man who's been there And so he was the problem he had was women the guy couldn't tito would laugh if you interview in tito right now He'll tell you One thing you don't do is let your girlfriend go and spend a day with michael jackson at neverland Because they thought in love of him and they'd be off of your girlfriend because he's a charmer You know, you know, he knows he knows how to work it his problem was women But he wanted us as his friends and in the circle me and mark less to urie getter and bahamut al-fahad To keep that a secret Because he was too scared to upset the fans and upset the record labels and it got so intense in the end were like you need to I said i He said well my my marriage to debbie roe was out there my marriage to lisa mary presley has been out there So michael you need to Show people your girlfriends. You need to go public because this is getting out of control So the social media came around they started to go mad and um these crazy allegations came around and Yeah, I stuck by my mate through that thick and thin and that was a big risk for me because my children's organizations parents were thinking Are you doing the right thing? Are you sure? I know the man behind the mask, right? My mate is not a freaking kiddie fiddler Not at all my kids my step kids at the time my two sons spent hours with him They took him out shopping at hamley shut down with my rehearsal wife, right? If anyone was going to speak bad about michael would be her wouldn't it? He didn't it's not him at all. That was the narrative which we understand now by Other people along the way bustle brand recently the andrew tay and all that sort of it mainstream media Will go after you nothing much you can do about it. Even there's no evidence And go back to the 93 allegations. I was at school then but I knew the truth about that michael net jackson never wanted to settle that case for whatever was reported to be 20 million He had no choice in the matter. His insurance company paid out. It wasn't michael's money his insurance company said He was in the middle of a talk called dangerous And they said listen, you got this multi-billion tour got aeroplanes flying you have two big jets flying the stuff around the world So many careers on the line fans booked out eight nights on the road just a london loan eight 80 000 people a night at the time And you've got this little problem here. You should insured against Now bear in mind they filed a civil suit. You got children james. Yeah, if your kids got to come out and said Someone's molested me Um, you want them in jail or hung or mud or gas chamber, wouldn't you? You wouldn't file a lawsuit, would you? They didn't go to the police They went straight for the money So they just paid it off and michael said i want to fight that i want to go to trial They wouldn't have it they did that so his insurance company paid out for him And the worst thing he ever did he became magnet there and then when the next one came around in 2005 We saw that one coming we warned him and as a counter said you got to stop buying a mouth It's a cancer sufferer basically make a wish foundation and Yeah, we could predict what's going to happen and we cut off we Michael probably cut them off too fast michael changed his number every two weeks Because uh, people would get hold of it and harass him And this this boy didn't react well to that and you know when they talk about young boys around him That's their narrative We are young boys. I've got 100 hours of the 30th or private footage of me and michael because He made this film everything because people would jump on the cars and soon jump underneath the cars They'd have been crushed by him They'll get hurt in a scrum and because he had a good heart he would go and visit them in hospitals The fans would try and get hurt and hoping that michael so everything would visit them So we'd film everything on a camcorder days, right? And he kept that footage with me he said if ever I get sued matt when I'm with your presence Can you store that safely? And if I need to rely on evidence, can you supply it? We've not just got that we've got like birthdays me spending christmas with him and stuff like that So when I look back on that footage now i've got Girls little girls that never land and boys kids gravitated to him. He was a mega star I mean He won the Guinness Book of Records records the last public appearance we did ever in the announcement of concerts 2006 at Olds Court we received from Guinness Book of Records the world's most famous man And I believe he was I don't think there ever be anyone's famous as that again Yeah Because it's obviously the allegations of the kids young boy sleeping in his bed and having never land to ring Groom them and have them in obviously when you hear me call the colkin talking Yeah And he says he never abused him The two young kids who'd done was it find another land? What was that document? Yeah, leaving them at the age they leave another land they'd Done I think they gave statements before to say the first that was a good guy and he was never abused Then he died and then he gave statements and I don't know people can say there's no smoke without fire I was never there but obviously when you're sleeping with kids and people say oh, he was still a kid himself We never really grew up. There was a lot of accusations and rumors Open up in front of you and never really done them any harm and then obviously paying off The court case people think really would get something to hide My name is truth about that one. Let's go to go for the gun them, right? This is about Wade's a way to say majors me so Wade Was the star witness in the 2005 trial The first person to come out and he was grilled you imagine the american courts they want Wanted to get michael jackson in jail 14 counts Of child molestation of the other counts like intoxicating the child and all these types of alcohol Which is so not mj. So it's not mike at all and then The same district attorney back in 1993. He wanted to make a name for himself tom sedan Was trying his best to try and get this family file a criminal suit file And they wouldn't do it jordan chandler's family. He would not do it. They just wanted the money They were happy to go. He failed that would have made him So the same district attorney tom sedan was back again in 2005 the same legal team as jordan chandler to represent the aviso family To come after michael. He had the same team and this district attorney wanted to get michael In fact, the press conference. Well, michael was in miami at the time when he heard about it He was filming. Um, what are we filming one more chance? Ironically was the song unbelievably and a phone call came in that neverland just been raided And um, he fell to the floor crying And then we heard tom sedan was behind it again the same district attorney from 1993 And then tom sedan did a press conference and he's all like joyous and he all the media I've got a restaurant from michael jackson. We finally got him. He says I was thinking. Wow, this is not normal You don't this doesn't happen if it wasn't michael jackson's won't be happening So we're all watching this thinking Jesus guys really is not gonna Michael didn't help matters because he released a song on an album I can't remember which one it was now blood on the dance floor. That's what it's called and um, he did a song called uh It was a basic hit it's on a guy called tom sedan, but it was um, basically it sounded like um, this district attorney's name and it wound him up. So michael was like, you know bad man and This guy who mistreats people and so forth and so michael continuously wound him up. I don't think he helped the matter Release his song about him sounded just like his name. It was in his name So not much that the district attorney could do about this guy was gunning for michael We've got a restaurant mr. Jackson wherever you are in the world come and hand yourself in now And uh, a deal was done um, once we got michael Saying enough to get on a plane deal was done to flame him and even then some nasty people Um, I don't swear on this podcast. You swear a lot on this podcast. It's all right. Is it you know what? I mean, I don't know. We swear because I'm the last one guys. So yeah, I don't upset people. Yeah You know what? I mean these people um, why even even on the airplane They recorded the people we hired the airplane from to get michael from miami to Back home to los angeles to give himself up basically They recorded the chitchat between him and his lawyer the whole way That's how bad things were and they sold out to the media michael sued them in the end When he landed the deal was done What we didn't want is the picture of michael in hankers. We knew this is all nonsense We'll go away. He'll be found not guilty. So he was driven into a bunker That's why the plane went into a bunker then he was come off then he was arrested and put into handcuffs And the media didn't see that part. I think some footage did leak from the media in the end Someone stitched us up and then he handed himself in And they they manipulated the mugshot to make him look like an idiot And and then it was just trying to keep that guy Positive was was a battle. They took his passport off him for michael That was tough He's used to his freedom flying all over the world We get to one hotel two days later. He's bored. We're off to another country next place. They always have a suitcase packed Yeah, it's completely nonsense And obviously came to nothing He was when he died it turned out he was investigated by the FBI for 10 years They intensely following us and people turned into beer Now you gotta remember you the harshest courts in america in los angeles this district only wanted to get him And it was just all nonsense. It turned out the family were done for fraud in the past and The the other the other thing is not publicized the original accuser jewell agenda. He's now grown up He's actually come out and said My family told me to say it but the media don't want to print now And when all these allegations were coming out after that program They were saying they say matt I won't say the publication Someone good terms them within reason biggest publication in the world called me up from new york and said matt I want to interview about leaving neverland this documentary these two accusers raid and james About what you think so, why don't you interview his girlfriend? Why don't you interview his wife his ex-wife? What are you interviews who dates him? Whatever has actually done a book My life with michael about her relationship with michael romantic with all pictures Yeah, we know about the girlfriend's matt and the wife, but he goes against the narrative, mate He gives something that goes with the narrative. I like I just put the phone down on them, you know And that's what we're dealing with now you get it now more james because he was the first I would describe him as the first me too victim where council council culture where Media allegations of any substance to back up will finish your career Michael Jackson was the first one you've seen one by one by one Bom bom bom bom ever since And all they've got is statements from 30 40 years ago and mostly people can't even remember these meeting these people let alone You know doing anything wrong So after him it just went it went well didn't the me too council culture So he was the first one, but no he's not a child molester by any means I would not be associated myself by that. He's a loving man, but naive. Let's talk about the bedroom That's a good point value point. So let me give you some context behind it A normal bedroom would be I don't know two meters by three meters or something His size of his bedroom was on two floors three bathrooms arcade games Two huge kingside double bed fireplace Unbelievable like it's basically the size of a mansion his bedroom He wanted his privacy because around neverland you can't walk around because people used to parachute in Oh, sorry forgot just didn't realize some mistake to try and meet Michael. That's how fanatic things were So whenever he walked around the ranch, he still had security guards walking His only privacy had was his you'd have to bolt the locks on his bedroom so much And if people would get in the panic alarm would be hit by neverland security office He had to run to his panic room, which is off his bedroom. They call it the sequel They call it the secret abuse room. It's not he didn't build that when he bought neverland It was called Sycamore valley and that panic room was there most billionaires must be let's do our panic rooms and it's equipped with stuff That would keep him sane We'd have Michael in there for a day and a half sometimes so we know the property has been checked You talk as like thousands of acres that have to be checked before we let Michael out of that of that room So all this secret abuse room and all that yeah his bedroom is like a house So it's just like having a friend staying around the house. You're watching the movie you fall asleep I'm freaking sleeping next to him cuddling in the bed I mean, that's ridiculous. It's on two floors. I mean, it's just mad But why kezzo obviously people would question that you still having kezzo to sleep over I I'm not I'm not by any means and we told him The public will not understand this We told him that but he would not listen Especially after what happened in 1993 Yuri get I told him It's not good The rabbi I told you about told him I told him He said I used to say to him outside Michael. They I know you're loving And so how he grew up they all squashed together. You had nine jacksons It basically the girls were sleeping in the living room at night and then the boys were in like multiple bunk beds He was used to them all combined together. That was his world, right? That was that was his thing. So he didn't know anything different. So for him Having white kids because he felt he could trust them just like he had a zoo He could trust the animals because they didn't screw him up. They didn't sell stories. They didn't talk bad about him But it wasn't boys. It was girls. McCauley Colkins Family sisters as well as well, you know, there was multiple Don't want to keep going up boys all the time. Look at back of my footage It's all girls mainly sat on his lap But they don't want that footage don't go with the narrative But no, he trusted them He can't trust adults because they all want something of him Well, they keep talking about his damn career all the time and he's sick of being asked about how do you do milk? How would you do the lean? So your criminals good, isn't it? But he jeans good. He's tired of all that Kids don't ask him that they just want to arcade games watch movies chill out put the fireplace on relax Is it wrong? Yes, it was wrong Good perceive was wrong, but not in Michael's head. It was a wrong If someone moved next door to me it was a multi-billion there And had kids sleep around his house boys and girls But the first person were in the police. Of course, I would do care But Michael didn't have a reality like that. It didn't even cross his mind You know, he didn't get it. How can he get it? His his life was underground car park lift through a kitchen Secret way into a hotel suite. We know we went everywhere, but didn't see anything Just trapped in a room couldn't go anywhere. He didn't have any sense of reality in his life How did he deal with the hit that came with all that stuff as well? The truth behind the the tabloid stuff. I'll tell you a story which will summarize it, right? He was a genius. So the first thing we do whenever we get to any town city Is we'd have a sit down with him at his table in this hotel suite in here. We say, okay How he put the glasses on And how can I make the front pages the next few days? How can I manipulate the media and he came up with some ideas? So I'm a bit outrageous. So they're very smart and Every morning wherever we were in the world any five star hotel They maybe not now they don't but back then you get delivered every edition of the national papers will get pushed under your door So the hotel staff will push the national news papers underneath Michael Jackson and they're going to his living room I get a phone call from America from his PA Saying can you go and get the daily mirror? Can you get the sun and take out pages 9 to 11 because a nasty story about mr. Jackson Michael used to get up late used to get up like two o'clock in the afternoon It'd be up all night writing music singing and dancing driving me I couldn't get any sleep So I'll go and take the newspapers I'll find the articles they were all negative about him But it's no fool and awful all this type of stuff take it crush it up Put the papers back so you wouldn't notice that was that I've done that for several weeks Then one day we went somewhere how it all fires house in ox dead And uh, I'm sitting on a fire where I'm a hundred hours house Michael sat next to me like sitting next to the fire And um, he wished for my ass max. Yeah, listen. So I I've been in this industry all my life My my career is about commercializing media Media is my game rather media. I'm nothing. I got sour records. I need rather to fill stadiums Please let me see my own work. I don't know what you mean Don't think you think I'm stupid when the newspaper goes from page 9 to 15 My story is missing So I thought I'd upset you. I said I created that story. It's my idea I'll put allergy tape on my nose to make sure make it my nose would fall off So I want my good life to be the greatest mystery on earth I've got to keep people guessing you got to stay relevant to the one thing that stuck in my mind So you've got to be Interesting for people to be interested in you you got to stay Madonna and people like that have been very good at doing that So so behind the scenes Michael throw on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and there'd be no makeup or none of that nonsense To get ready was was a mission for him, you know, and sometimes to make himself look outrageous because it created publicity Yeah, and so he was behind so I've been taking like an idiot I've been taking these news articles away and he's a man playing the stories What about the baby or for the veranda? I was in the room that day Yeah, okay. Well, what happened there, right? So I'll tell you as it is james because it's like That's the thing of the theme of your podcast, right? So That was a major misjudgment, but he was not in a place at the time to Make a right judgment so We were in berlin We were in the hotel suite And by the way, this baby just appeared if i'm a completely honest with you. I was in london with him. We were shopping Rather where we were we were in hamleys. That's where we were And he said to me can you get that and that for the baby? I don't really think I think I thought he meant paris his youngest daughter I'll get back to the hotel room He's got baby in his arms. So I've got that baby come from my baby Okay, I mean I got my early 20s. I didn't ask too many questions because You're gone. I mean, that's it gets power on all you know And I I know he needed me you need somebody you could trust in his life And I saw what happened with yuri where yuri was tough and he was just shutting him out And he returned his calls and then Get the friendship get back in order again So round harrow the round hamleys and I thought it was strange. He's mentioned his baby I said to my rehearsal wife You know, he's got about his baby all the time. You know, and his baby's come out. I know where And then the next the next public appearance was him to receive a bambi award in berlin And we're in the living room and he's got a doctor there who was a problem a doctor is a serious issue And whatever the hell he gave mic mic was hyper some kind of I'm fit to me. I don't know He was hyper you you'll see a scene in the martin beshear document where michael's leg shaking and he's like Completely crazy and he was hyper because the doctor made him like that on purpose Because it gave him a happy feeling or something erratic probably the word And he first of all he took Prince the oldest son to the balcony. We had massive of fans there. It was unbelievable And they go mad for prince then he showed paris And they were chanting. We want to see the baby baby baby and He didn't think anything of it. He just grabbed a baby And he put the baby over up to the balcony came back in and We didn't really say no, but let me tell you the truth about the shot. That's famous, right? If you go to that hotel You'll see you've got the balcony then you have a ledge. It's a proper like five six star hotel in berlin A ledge he couldn't drop that baby. He dropped that baby wouldn't have gone anywhere. There's a legend I'm not justifying it by any means but that baby wouldn't have failed to its death or anything like that It was there was like a legend underneath if you're going to visit that hotel He come in he was under the influence of something james. Okay. That's all i'm getting at He come in my main concern really was with mike less than my mate less Can we get him away from this doctor because he's got an award show to go to and look at him You know he's shaking the ratic so mark took him away We got the doctor out of the way and a media started arriving outside the hotel Take a wow and a michael's like wow, this is great. They're so popular And uh, it's because of the bambi award i'm going to get tonight. Oh, it's great And it grew and it grew all these satellite dishes all these big vans sky sky news fox news and then the presence of people It was like thousands of people outside Then I get a phone call from america So we had german tv on And german tv was playing michael jackson shows his children off to the world And that's it. That's all the narrative was that there was no controversy So america courses, where's mr. Jackson? I said, oh, he's just with mark lester His best mate watching a movie said town was mr. Jackson not to watch tv He might not be able to go to the bambi awards tonight He's every world over and I said, well, what's going on? And it's assistant. I said, uh They're saying that he's put his child at danger. He dangled him over the balcony. I was there No, he's the doctor's here and He's basically Not right, you know what's been given to him in my opinion and that's not his attention at all And that balcony and I saw the pitch. I said, no, they manipulated that angle. They're only showing one side of it and uh anyway, yeah, we No one wanted to tell michael so me and mark sat him down and said listen the world's took it germany are saying you shown showing you the kids, but the world's taken as that you Put your neglects in your your child. They they forgot they didn't show the image of prince and paris being shown They just went for the baby either their own narrative and um They said baby, you know, michael dangled a baby. Anyway, we had german authorities turn up welfare officers turn up at the hotel And he was he was locked himself in a bedroom. He was quiet. It's couldn't believe it You know, just do like but it was the doctor's fault. That was the truth michael was not thinking Do you know when we got back to london? So we went from there and we had to get connected and fight from from um, london We were driving back in the car and he was thinking about the bird in incident and the blacks out Car so no one could see him But he could see everyone else and you could see dad's apart chucking their kids up in the air Catching them. He says, you know what matter if I did that because i'm michael jackson I would be killed crucified by the world's media, but they everyone else can get away with it Why did you do that martin michiel's? All right, so I'm glad you brought that subject up Yuri get it Yuri get it destroyed them about yeah, Yuri get a guess to blame for that Everyone said oh Yuri get introduced to my bishop So michael understood the world had this big misunderstanding about who he is There's kitty fiddler nonsense and this uh, wacko jacko Now that that by the way, i'm friends with the editors who wrote those stories and they said the only reason they did that Because it fit nicely on the front page headlines everything, you know, it works change Um, wacko and michael hated that you didn't want to be called wacko So that just fit lovely on the front page and then the other story underneath and then you get the real story when you open it up and um Yeah, so what's the question again martin beshear? Right He wanted to do a tv show To show the real truth. He didn't want to do you did hope probably didn't have much of an effect He talked about his skin condition, but till i go no one really believed it So he wanted a tv show but this time about michael jackson is music the career The man behind the myth to follow him and we had Being his friend. We're always bombarded with offers We are three people who really wanted to make him One of them has met michael a couple of times that urie galler's writing when michael was best man Sir david frost very credible person if you remember sir david frost Made great documentaries very well known credible Then we had louis feroux who's on our case all the time blessed, you know louis louis And then we had this guy called martin beshear Who was famous for the princess diana thing? So We had these three options So they contact urie because he's more famous than i am i was a name mat then i was just At my own martial arts because his friend and bodyguard they contact urie galler first so urie had these Best top three options. So he said to michael. He said look there's three people you're louis feroux for the I think it's bbc at the time You've got sir david frost which is any channel he wanted. I think it was going to be icv And you got martin beshear So i recommend you go with sir david frost because he knew him very personally and it'd be credible and good But michael was friends with princess diana He was blinkered and i just want mine beshear No urie. I just want my beshear. So all urie did was on a wednesday afternoon We he walked in and he introduced martin beshear to michael jackson in the hotel suite michael wanted me to sit in on the meeting And talk about some ideas to film in and stuff if he did want to go ahead martin sat down And no one believed me about this story for years until the last couple of years after the diana expose and urie was there and there was another one person there with us another security person And beshear basically pitched michael. He said i want to film you And i'm not gonna i'm gonna tell you the truth about you focus on your music your dance your success Film you making music videos He said all the right things michael was a bit suspicious too. I could see he was not quite sure Then what happened our this pocket, which is where i reported now backs up by evidence. No one believed me before he got out this crumpled note From princess diana hand written saying might be sheer Thank you so much. You changed my image now. It's called personal brand out his image turn my reputation. You changed my life Thank you for everything you've done for me Bear in mind michael was friends with diana. He read that beshear handed to him michael read that thought wow And that was it that was the end of it And we left the room and we all assumed Being michael jackson. He would tie my and beshear up with legal contracts edit control Everything by his lawyers But that was lacking that department of the michael jackson organization So we left the room and thought this would be the biggest thing ever And he played mic really well because we'd see him everywhere popping up And then on the last day of filming michael's in miami And he called us. He said mind that minds acting strange. I said, what do you mean? He said He's asking me really strange questions matt Like why did I have these operations on my face and why am I white? He's never been like that. He's my friend. Can you try and get him to calm down? We couldn't get hold of him. He wouldn't ask from the phone to me you would get anyone anymore but we had we had like a bit of Confidence in the fact that michael had verbally agreed with michael beshear That he would come out from england and deliver him a vh VHS tape because what it was back then to watch it and edit out any bits He didn't want to have in the documentary and he the date was set in the diary for a might be she was going to fly out and do that He didn't turn up My and beshear didn't turn up till he put a michael started to panic then and he rang me and said I need I need you go to my beshear. I can't go to mine anymore. He's not answering his phone Yuri tried. I tried michael jackson's staff tried then we got the lawyers involved It london lawyers got involved as well couldn't get out of beshear Then we started to realize that He isn't going to turn up my and we saw it. No intention to turn it up That something was wrong and then the tv station to get sent a copy to review Before the news article started to appear And then one one of our friends leaked us a copy of it. We watched it. We're like, whoa This is this is only like samples of it, too I went to Yuri's house to watch it because we were very suspicious But we thought might even do this to him. Surely not. He's lived literally lived with michael for eight months Got some amazing footage But michael was very concerned about that last day of questioning That was all everything else was wonderful But the last day he was full on interrogating at one stage he said to him, you know This is not you mine. Why you know journalists like it's your credible journal We asked me his crazy questions for Hey, me me me you again. I watched it for the first 45 minutes. Well, this is good. It's a fantastic it shows Mike for what he is then it took a turn And it went down this mad crazy world And didn't explain everything properly or nothing He encouraged michael to to hold i had friends who were there with michael at the time to hold Gavin's hand So why don't you hold his hand on camera lean next to michael? You know, it's all encouraged And so on and also apparently what happened to michael's used to signing his autograph so he was given a document and From what we understand he signed waiver to all rights to every foot all the footage so when We finally watched the end of it I don't know. We were devastated. I was like you would get us house and son on terms I called michael. He was in miami By then he'd already had the paparazzi we're trying to find him Media we're trying to find him. He got wind that it wasn't good And I said how he said to me how bad is it? I said it's bad mike. It's not good He stitched you up and he's crying down the phone And I said he said we used to give a witness statement about that first meeting you did out of an ace and sold towel With you and urie. Get us. Yeah, so urie. Will you do it? So, yeah, we're on it Next day we did a witness statement to try and get an injunction to stop this damn program Being released in america was due to be played a week later So went out in england We want injunction to stop it being played ever again and stop being played in america Which would be devastating all around the world too. It's called living with michael jackson We we did that they went through the injunction it turned out michael signed this thing And we didn't have a case You know He trusted mine. He trusted me now. I was come out that the whole diner thing was Was a was a nut job, doesn't it? He did the same to michael But just because the kid in that video was there when grabbing him close and talking about sleeping in bed It does look creepy. Do you know what I mean? It does look fucked up. Well, do you think I when I was watching it? Yeah, like Well, my family getting in this, you know, it's like What are you doing? How close was it before pra? Michael wasn't close with anyone was it not no But she made out was after our best friends because on the first documentary because they talk about the elephant man's bones and Yeah, all that creepy shit when people go, that's weird people. Yeah, people do change the narrative and that's where interviewers become Nobody trusts them But Michael's behind all this stuff like remember the hyperbaric chamber oxygen chamber Yeah, so he one of his best friends Elizabeth Taylor. She trusted her massively And she was always on the front of her new magazine called the national inquirer Is a big thing about they've probably seen a bit more trashy now And he was jealous of her and he wanted to be on the front page national inquirer It's coming of all these ideas He got burnt badly In a commercial either of his brothers for pepsi cola He basically redone bidi gene for pepsi cola and his sculpt was burnt real I think he's like third four degree burns. That's what where he first started taking the pain medication got addicted to it and He didn't sue pepsi cola The prior technically went off and burned his hair hair caught fire. What he did instead is he got compensation But he used it to find something called the Michael Jackson burn center And he went to visit it and there's his oxygen chamber, which basically helps kids or anyone adults They go in it and it helps you recover from burns It increases the oxygen level in it He said to his publicist at the time I'm gonna lay in that thing take a picture And he so he went and laid in it went like that. It took a picture. He said he hates it It was like The fault of the whole thing when he trapped into like a coffee didn't like the feeling of it came out And he said to his publicist frank delayo. He said frank I want you to release that to national inquire. So I sleep in it every night to stay young And boom it's on the front page national inquire made the press and he used to always laugh and joke about that story That the elephant on bones and all the other stories he's behind pretty much all of it What about the skin change when it went? What happened before because people see it was injected because it doesn't want a black man Some mad conspiracy theories, but what is the truth behind that? So so back in this generation's family black people So, you know, there's a famous model now. It's got a bit of like always making a fortune from it Um, it's a skin condition. You lose the pigmentation of your skin He loved water parks and stuff like that. It was a great love of him. He couldn't do any of that He couldn't go out in the sun. That's why you see me holding umbrellas over his head the whole time People say I'm the umbrella man He always used that picture of me holding a flippin umbrella over his head the umbrella man I've had your bones if oh dear me that's stopping getting skin cancer. Yeah, no pigment in his skin. So it's no pigmentation No, no So it goes and it started to break out on his face and up his neck So in the early days when you see furlough, you can see like the white patches So what they did his makeup eyes would would cover up with dark makeup And that's quite hard to do then it's just break down his neck And it got ridiculous and he had a patch on his cheek and his arms if you got a pitch I could show you pictures of the media don't want to show you but she could see all the patching So in the end he got this this team of um His makeup eyes is there's nothing else we can do so we had to make a decision You know, what can he do and the truth of the matter is he clearly he used uh a cream Which anyway, at no point clearly it's out there the old tops he was done on his death he did a bit like I was confirmed by the coroner and they found the tubes of a cream called um Which are bleached his skin and um And he just did that but his whole body wasn't like that used to joke with me So I see him walk around his boxer shorts and I said all pair of shorts and they said i'm i'm the spotted cow mat Look at my legs. He got patches all over his legs. Bless him. You know, nothing you could do about it But no one believed him I believed him but when he died it was proven true by the autopsy It had made this much media that he was telling the truth all along He wasn't flipping bleach himself to get rid of his black heritage. He's very proud of that Now it's normal now. You got a model out there Who it makes millions of the fact that she's got vitiligo and shows all her patching. She doesn't try and cover it But he was zoomed in by paparazzi. He had to have that He can't be seen with patches of back then images ever you couldn't admit You had Botox back there plastic surgery was another thing if you took everyone out of Hollywood now I had our plastic surgery or Botox. There'd be no one left. What's that? No, and you can't understand it James you can say to me matt what do you think about my skin all the time? What's the problem? I got a skin disease. Why don't they believe me? It's why does it matter anyway? Because the suntown lotion is a multi-billion-dollar business You white guys you go and sit out in the sun for hours on there to try and get dark like us black people You don't get criticized. Why don't you hate on me for the fact that I've got lighter skin than what I was born with? I thought yeah valid point But why so many operations on the face though the nose and everything I don't in my era James. I knew where he was what he was doing at any given time from 1998 through to his death I would no worry was for our friend network our friend circle even when I wasn't with him there was no operations at place in my era And a lot of the stuff you see was where he's put make-up on to make himself look a bit stupid and stuff and so on Towards the end of his he did take things too far That's that's something he would admit to as well. But towards the end. He was working with um For his this is it or which unfortunately was part of the issue He would visit a doctor with Dr. Arnie Klein who treated Elizabeth Taylor big some big names and they had new Science available. So we're taking tissue from his back I believe and and injecting it and they they made it all back normal. He had nothing to have to work with but they made him look Great. So how do you see them on stage in no two in london? That little curve thing he had and so on had gone. They'd rebuilt that But he that required him being on a demoral which is um in english called perfidy Which they give to pregnant with their own pain very addictive substance was they put on a drip Doctors should never be given that in the first place and he come addicted to that So he'd go there. They'd work on him to get ready for the tour But no, it's so many operations. Yeah, he's had clearly had lots done here and there But in my era, you never had a thing he stopped all that long before did they have the Beatles catalog? Yeah, Paul McCartney they recommended him to to invest in music and he said i'm gonna buy your songs and he Went and bought them on and he had a he didn't have a fallout with m&m I was with Mike in a It's a song called just lose it and the music video come out and and it's it makes a reference like um He's got a Michael Jackson lookalike in it who throws his nose across the room. His hair goes on fire Yeah, hair goes on fire and there's a line that says I don't want to be like Like like Michael little boys like Michael something like that Michael was he didn't react. I said you're not upset. You're not going to sue him No So they said I really respect that guys and I it's my Devastating I didn't think you'd do that to me. Yeah, but you said the biggest star the bigger the target that's what he used to say and and uh I thought wow, I thought Michael would sue this guy sue m&m. What m&m would be finished. Anyway month later I get a phone call from one of michael's brothers and he said uh my little my little brother's just uh Just screwed m&m over. What'd you mean? He said, um he's bought all of his music So that whenever m&m wants to play he has to ask michael for permission and michael gets paid and michael can say no You can't do it. So he basically bought all of m&m's music catalog in revenge To get him back. So next time i was with michael. I said michael is it true you bought our m&s music. Yeah Now when that mf has got a playing music I get paid and I can say no if I want to just like the Beatles catalog Going back Clever guy Yeah Yeah It sounds like the media but no one wants to report on it. How's his how did his relationship with princess diana start? Guy before my era He used to talk about diana a lot and said that was his ideal wife and He spent hours on the phone. She talked to the staff that around about the time He used to ring all the time and he used to ring all the time Prince charles used to put an end to king charles now. He's put an end to it a lot um The fact the princes wanted to meet him on a trip to london in 2002 prince harry and prince william wanted to meet michael So obviously they knew their mum was friends with michael jackson He used to go to the wembley concerts and watched a bad era and so on and we set it up for michael to meet to meet michael and I probably shouldn't be tangy this but doesn't really matter too late now to too far talking um King charles or prince charles back then we were told Put a stop to it So we went to the house of the power house of lords and we were going to meet the princes afterwards and um a lord Organized it for us his friends of prince charles And we just got told by the lord or mentioned his name, but uh one of the senior lord mp's there that Prince charles king charles now put a stop to his son's meeting michael jackson due to the controversy It's around that he didn't want his kids associated To them, which is sad because like prince harry I made about chalter and rascals. He's like, uh, you're michael jackson He was there drunk doing the moonwalk in the tent, you know vip tent and you got to introduce me to michael I want to find out a bit more about my mum, you know and stuff and yeah But he's got a cheek to stop. You know maker jackson. Yeah, yeah, that was plain sandra We had this very we had this very official letter come through Saying that uh Yeah prince William prince harry will not be meeting michael jackson and that was hard because we had to deliver the news to him and That's kind of why he came to london. He wanted to be sir michael jackson And he'd been made promises by certain people in the government and near the royal family Because steven spielberg got an honoree sir steven spielberg So you had to be born in england to become a sir, but you could be honoree He felt he deserved that recognition because he's great Biggest an arse of all time and what he's done. He's achieved what he's the guiness book of records. He's the biggest What's the word given money to You know He's given away the most of charities that any other entertainer in the world I think it's 750 million he's given away. You know what's report on that either So he was kind of coaxed in to come in to london To meet the royal family prince William harry and becomes sir michael jackson and it didn't happen due to What I don't know whatever. We just got told it wouldn't happen in them He wasn't meeting the princess. That was that what was his favorite song Uh, so I've asked him this many I asked him this many times Yeah, it's funny because he did listen to his own music james. It was which was um I found quite ironic, but why wouldn't he you know and His favorite song was uh earth song and heal the world Because I had a meaning that was close to his heart to change the world and all this stuff that's happening now He kind of predicted he was very much a visionary He predicted what was going to happen. So heal the world the earth song Yeah, that that was his favorite stuff not bitty gene used to say to me The bitty gene the fans expect me to do it how they want it the moonwalk in the zacky Right place the hat on in the spotlight. I love you seen the bitty gene thing. He does It's like the iconic performance said when he does that on his own when I've seen him rehearse He would play around with it and do the moonwalk with different stages that would be pretty cool But but the record companies and the show provides with demand that he does the moonwalk in the exact same place And the finger point the same place he would like to be creative of it But now he likes heal the world an earth song. I I thought he would say something with criminal or something like that Yeah, but the biggest entertainer I grew up in here. I fucking loved them I still watch with them that it's unbelievable that you've spent in the presence of it. And listen, you've got his back 1 million percent as well So yeah, I can put people's a lot of everything that's here of him. I'm honest is negative He's an honest. He's a weirdo. He's this and that so it's good that actually somebody's sitting here going and singing his praises Because nobody has all the answers. We wanted those. Yes sitting with kids. It's fucking creepy. You've got to be honest We're not here to sugarcoat anything. It's watch the narrative. It's weird. But again, I don't know how the media work Yeah, I don't know how they can operate and I don't know how they can cancel But he was just too big to be cancelled No social media can have a word himself and most of the stuff's come out after he's dead And he can't speak out. So wade and james have made that documentary So I can't understand it because I said to michael's lawyers Why can't you sue wade and james because they've gone on the stand or wade has and said, you know He's the star witness of 2005. Why can't you go he's committed perjury now? He's saying he's been abused What happened so the other part of the story make people think when michael died a week later He was supposed to be collecting awards for a big show in the end They made it a michael jackson tribute night when janet came out and did a surprise performance wade was want to beg to be one of janet's Dancers for this tribute after a week after he died wade Also wanted to get marry his fiancee's wife and asked countless times his own record by the way on court file To be married at neverland. Why would you want to be married at a place that you so say got abused from the other thing too? One of them was james. He accused of being abused in the train station at neverland Well, that was quite simple one of the mike small com. He got the original planning records Of when the train station was built lisworth taylor got married at neverland too. So we got aerial pictures of helicopters going off The train station was even built until he's in his late 20s. How can he be molested when he was a kid? You know the pictures prove it the plan permission wasn't even granting to ease the adult in his 20s It's just all nonsense and what about the rumors of Sean keds porn and giving them alcohol Well, my michael would do what the thing about michael with me is like Matt, you're not gonna drink alcohol because when he grew up he didn't just go into these big stadiums He was working the clubs with jacks of five and he received what goes on behind the scenes and drugs and alcohol He was so anti Like you take drugs last last week out my life. I didn't have my first alcoholic drink james until i was 27 because of michael He didn't see prescription drugs as drugs. He saw that as the botter gave it to him. It's okay medication And that was completely nice now in neverlander is a wine cellar when people come and stay Then they'll be treated and they'll be looked after but michael giving kids alcohol Completely uttered nonsense. That was proven all false thought the whole lot. There was no case for answer What about the fallout with sony? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, a billion pones or something. Yeah, well he That was wrong for him to well, I don't know He got one day and he wanted to we're in london here and he's sony Sony music officer He wanted to get all the fans to go there and protest a sony sucks And he wanted tommy metola who was married to mcryde mcryde carry before michael's friends were i carry she's a ring all the time said all these stories about Her exercise, but I don't know the truth. He was head of sony music. He thought uh, tommy metola was a racist Because the last album he did a vincible didn't really in michael jackson's terms He wasn't getting into promo for it and he wanted they were making him sign that record store. He's not used to that, you know And there was no promo Happening so he felt he was being stitched up And he if you make a record deal you have to give Collateral so you need to give an asset and they borrowed they lend you the money or advance your money against the asset The biggest asset michael jackson had was the atv catalogue which is the beatles catalogue and lots of other famous people's songs as well 80 millions of royalties going in coming the year and I'll keep growing So he offered up the the atv. It's what he told me is what's in the it's out there record This as is he didn't it wasn't into property or anything. He mortgaged neverland to the hill So he offered up this as an asset thinking that He would get the same treatment like he did with thriller bad dangerous off the wall and so on And in his mind he felt soney music was stitching him up. He felt that They got they got a music catalogue here worth one billion with 80 million royalties. It's only going to go up in value Then you've got michael jackson who's kind of Reputation has been really damaged lately Let's not promote his record. Let's leave that dangling. He's gonna owe us money and we've got the beatles catalogue That's what went from michael's head He felt he said we've outsmarted him out. I know what they're doing So he said all his fans to go to I don't know where things ox history or something like that Tottenham Court Road, maybe something like that with soney music was and then he wanted to make an appearance I said I advise you michael do not do this It's dangerous And then the other body got so we got to find a way to keep michael safe bulletproof car So they're done exists. We couldn't get hold of one in England. It was impossible. That's your rule So he hired a double decker bus And he went on double decker bus I went in there with him the door shut and he went outside sony music and he put his leg over the sony sucks He had to kill terminate tommy metola, you know and Making sure he's fine had all the fans chanting outside sony and it Wow, they did the same in new york a week later Yeah, that that was not he shouldn't have been calling tommy metola racist and public and But again, he had a lot of yes men around him What's having the truth if you told michael too much the truth he would just shut you out changed his number because someone would convince him You know when was that he's happiest Well, he said to me he's only happy when he's on stage with his kids. That was basically it Uh Yeah, I mean honestly, I he was uh, lonely. I mean probably my loneliest guy I've ever met in my life And what about his his marriage to elvis's daughter? Lisa is at least a million. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was normal. I mean I don't go to details, but You know, I'm in the room next people are in the room next door. You can hear noises, right? I used to I used to tease michael used to say, uh You know, she had a baby with lisa. You might as well be like You know, he used to be a fitter laughter. So I wanted to have a baby with her She would have it. She said I need to grow up a bit first, you know She's sad he passed away now too But now he um, he was all set for lisa She didn't cut herself off she used to come visit all the time and bring him up all the time and Well, she came to the funeral actually and she was there and she was the last person I believe to be with michael to cough him Before he's in tune So they're very close right to the end. That's a sad existence for these superstars Bailey's no glitz and glamour james. No, I was like, you want to be like right now? I do not want to be like michael. It's like My god, I've had media scrutiny on me and it's nothing compared to what this guy's at I've had to rub off for him a head of cops over my house because he think he's staying with me He was just chased. I remember him called me once And I can hear this man. He's in the hotel the four seasons hotel in america and they called me and I said michael Shut off that noise. I can't hear you. I can't man. It's the helicopters. They found out where I am and they're hovering above the hotel I was like, geez man How'd you put up with this? Yeah What about his kids was his kids has then because there was remembers people saying that he was chemically castrated So he's his voice wouldn't change as a kid and shit. There's some serious Conspiracy theories out there. That's mad. But all these kids everything was above board So here's kids now james One thing I've always said This this guy was my mate, right? Yeah when his kids were young, it wasn't so bad now now their adults They've got their own opinion like prince paris and biggie of course. You call blanket They obviously know what the situation is out there and The only thing I don't talk about is his kids because I think If they want to speak out they can what I will tell you is that guy was an amazing dad He put me to shame He would shut off all meters and everything. I'm I'm a workaholic, right? I learned a lot from him. He put me to shame with a dad I remember on father's day once his kids couldn't come to england because there's a million pound ransom on Who could get a picture of michael jackson's kids unmasked? And he didn't want to put them at risk. So he had another security team with them in new york with a nanny uh called grace and then me and michael were in london doing business And phone calls were coming in wanting to speak to mr. Jackson And I speak and I realized michael's on the phone. I said mike President clinton's this is true story president clinical That's how I'm on the phone to my kids. I'm ringing back. Okay. And he was reading them bedtime stories Over the phone on father's day. He's blocked out like four five hours or loud speaker reading them bedtime stories unbelievable He's like daddy, please come home. We're back. It's so close to his kids and I'll leave it there because it's their person Yeah, let's not expect it's down to paris prince and them to they're very well brought up They're educational the mass over his face that was a wise decision That was in his decision by the way that was requested by And someone else in the family who felt they were kidnapped risk and they were They were able with children to go out to the park and not be recognized with a nanny the body got to stay away So they could have some normal existence, you know, not like when michael couldn't go to the park with him He had to stay in the car So he made the smart move of that you saw me superstars and celebrities again The kids abducted and hold the ransom for money and he was probably the biggest We got death threats every day james Under the under the door sent to us not like you get now keyboard war a proper death threats, you know and He he massed the kids But they understood it. They're smart kids. He educated them so well. They knew why They knew that their daddy taught them about the world and what people are bad out there and jealous of him and I remember once paris came up to me it's quite funny and uh She said my daddy's the most famous man in the world So really who told you that paris my daddy You know, so he clearly knew he was he knew he was but the the kids They've gone on to do so well. I'm very proud of them and yeah I mean i'm paris. She's stunning right and me and martin less used to bath her I wish was a kid like life goes past quick done it Literally reached uh reached a bath where mike used to go to sleep after a hard work We used to take care of the kids and Yeah, these kids would play with our kids and Yeah, we used to bath her and as she's like this incredible model has got a fantastic career and Yeah, just normal their normal life. He didn't over spooling like when we go shopping and stuff he would uh prince and paris were limited to only one or two Things to buy in that neverland. They didn't have access to the fairground and the zoo They only had so many hours per week that were allowed to go and do that Michael really gave them a proper firm upbringing. That's why they turned out to be great kids The prescription pills obviously everybody knows Michael took drugs. It's not cocaine and he's sitting getting high and But prescription drugs that's in the pharmaceutical more people than anything on the planet But how bad was the drugs it was taking? When did you really notice it? I noticed it early on straight away. Yeah Yeah, I mean probably on the second time I messed him properly I realized there's always a doctor around but there's always a reason for the doctor to be around take care of him He said his body was a machine the whole Michael Jackson operation It's a multi-billion business wouldn't work unless he's healthy. So I kind of bought into that Oh, dear when I first noticed We were gonna go. You know, he loved gorillas like animals. He didn't screw him up London zoo Basically said to her the monkey. Did you know it? Yeah, he had loads of monkeys. Yeah Yeah, it was loads of chimps and monkeys and drafts. He had everything basically But London zoo said that they'll shut off the zoo and he could come and spend some time with the chimpanzees and gorillas And they're like a charity-based thing. So And we had a certain time we had to be there and he kept on sleeping and kept on sleeping and Yeah, we realized that he was uh It wasn't gonna happen. So we canceled on them. He don't eat some money to them in the end to make up for it But yeah, we noticed that I didn't see anything being taken but we noticed the aftermath He was yeah slurry or high And uh, there would be a doctor just come out of the room And I would do my best, but I wish I was a bit more harder on him But then at the same time, I probably wouldn't be shut out. So Yuri Geller would be like Stop this, you know, I'll be with him when you would be shouting this stop this. You're gonna kill yourself And then um, I tried it once right? I said to him, Michael, you're gonna end up like Elvis You camera like this. Don't you tell me about Elvis? You're just a cry instructor I know everything about Elvis. I was married to his daughter. That's what he said to me. I said, okay I left it like that and I wish I just Yeah, I managed to get a few doctors sacked Who who who prescribed him stuff and gave him medication in states for America that they wouldn't license to give medication So in America if your doctor in Los Angeles doesn't mean you can go and do it in Another in New York, you know, you got the license to So I managed to get rid of a doctor with the help of some other team members Who prescribed nearly killed him in 2003 Um prescribed with his medication and the kids alerted us that he wouldn't wake up And uh, we got rid of him on the on the basis that you either go now and we never hear from you again Or we're gonna report you to the authorities that you've gave Michael drugs In a country like you're not licensed to the doctor. He would have been struck off. We never heard from that guy ever again But he would always find the doctor Michael Jackson get whatever he wanted, you know, that came way before my days I understand it's from when he got burned. They've they prescribed him something called oxy content Which is like a opiate based drug linked to the heroin family which gave him a relaxed feeling But he had good years for James. I mean from after the trial Jermaine organized to try and clean him up. Jermaine's a muslim. So he wanted Michael to have no alcohol drinking no drug so Jermaine organized for him to go to Bahrain And in Bahrain you can't get your hands on anything any alcohol nothing the the prince of Bahrain looked after him And he stayed there. We went to visit him. Me and Mark Lester did And uh, he was great. No drugs. No alcohol. Nothing. He was awesome ready to go again But as soon as he landed back then he went to live in southern island and he recorded thriller 25 Like an anniversary special and acorn flew in and will I am came in As soon as he went back to las vegas in 2007 he was looking for a residency to To like britney spears has just done and slain deon's done to stay in vegas Still be of his kids being a house going to buy a new house called wonderland He was going to buy he was losing neverland. Unfortunately to financial struggles And he was going to stay there. That was his dream to be like But no one really felt that he was that reliable And he didn't he didn't get all we got offered or he got offered was the 50 shows Actually 10 shows it was at the o2 arena for aeg And he had to move to la for that and he vegas so that was his goal to stay los vegas. He loved los vegas Why was in financial struggles though if you had the beatles catalog in m&m's catalog His algorithms was more than is it than his income is very expensive to be michael jackson. You know you got When we would do things together the footage of me going shopping with him and oxford street in new york It would just be me him and one other person and sometimes The greatest times I've ever been with he'd not come wake me up at three in the morning like Let's get in a cab and we get a black cab I put your per cap on in the middle of the night and we go around big ben and bucking in palace and oh, dear He had one mad idea once right. Oh, we really got shot We we come outside bucking in he just fought being michael jackson He would have been okay And I had the connection with diana he was obsessed about getting to the princes right because he just Couldn't see the issue with it. He's with kings and queens all the time So we get a black cab and we're outside bucking in palace just me and him about 334 in the morning And he said this and I'm gonna I'm gonna Go and tell the michael jackson to come on it. So I go up to the guy and then uh, you know The freaking proper guards with the hats on or what they're called the queens guards I said, I've got michael jackson in the taxi. I know this sounds mental. I'm mad. Honestly, it is He knew princess diana. I understand prince William prince harry's in there He would like them to know he'd hang around till they wake up and so on and they were quite firmer We get back in that car now and slammed his foot on the floor flipping back So I went back in the car to that michael forget it That guy's gonna he's gonna shoot me or something the michael got out of the car. I said now let me have a go anywhere He said hi So, uh, it's me. It's honestly me. I want to see you know, I want to meet prince William and harry and can you let me in and Get out of the car now And he just ran to the back back back cab and we carried on touring land He's like, whoa, that was a close co-save, you know, but he's not used to getting rejected like that he normally pretty much Used to turn up at the bg's or barry gibbs house in the middle of the night and knock on the door He lives on the palm beach and Barried let him in, you know, he's not used to being turned away and so forth. But yeah That was my best memories of going around black cab and not noticed but being michael was expensive And people just took advantage of him. I mean, that's basically yet the Crazy money that was spent He used to say to me neverland was a million a month just to run. He's a joke was he was never at neverland He's never there. He hates being there. He's he'd like to be in hotel suite We had an extra layer of protection with the hotel staff That you know and being on the suite he had a suite in a Beverly Wilks hotel called the michael jackson suite and he would He hated the drive from neverland to To LA it was like a three and a half hour drive a really whiny car stick. He hated that He'd rather stay in la to do business other michael jackson suite and uh when's the last time you've seen him alive do you know when we announced the um He announced the shows at the oto arena. So Come came was a bit of a surprise. So I got a phone call. It's an honest. I got a phone call for michael And he said to me i'm coming to london. I want to see you And I want you to be there I'm coming back on the road. I need to do shows but i'm going to be a residency At oto arena. Yeah, he had his rivalry with prince. Yeah So I want to beat prince But but he was concerned He wouldn't sell out shows. He didn't know how the public were going to react after the 2000 allegations He was unsure on how the tickets sales are going to be. I was pretty down certain it was going to be just fine So he was only going to release 10 shows and if demand exceeded it up to 50 now prince did 21 shows was in the guiness beckle records michael wanted to smash prince's record. That was his motivation not the money or nothing else He needed the money but nothing else So I said michael, I'll make myself available. I'll put myself out And this time he wanted to do things differently He didn't want his children trapped in a doorchester hotel the lanes for hotel For basically a four five month period could we do a show one night day off at another show? He rented a house just outside of insuri big mansion he kitted out how he wanted to his furniture and And we would get to the oto arena by coming down the river towns So we don't get chased by paparazzi and fans very different experience so the kids are locked up all the time ag sort of allow me might less have found the house and face time Actually, it was skype back then that we did we used and um Yeah, all always always looking good always looking like where It was going the right place and then He comes to announce the concerts. We meet him at lanes for hotel I got a phone call for someone at ag the concert promoter want to put the money up They only oto arena by the way that company and they said matt We need you to come to lanes for right away. I was in devon at the time mark lester was already with him his best mate the same age Mark lester's child star So they grew up being the magazines together world famous him as oliver twist black beauty and so on I get to ladies wrote out And one of the ag guys says to me you need to effing go and sort your superstar friends out now And I said which one mark to know The more famous one you're supposed to be doing a speech in a couple of hours announcing these concerts that we're funding for him And he said he said remember we pay for the toilet roll. He wipes his butt with that's what he said So I was like flipping out I go and I get into michael's bedroom marks with him And he's trying to sober michael up bless him. He was so nervous. He drunk after bottle of whiskey And it's on using court documents now. What happened there and we had sober my reissue. You're going to be fine, Mike You know, you get we look after you my team would be there We were looking after you had american team with him there too Got him on the bus. He made the announcement Got back He was crying and so nervous and someone walked in and said wishes of my ear saying all the 10 shows are gone They sold in two minutes So so I go up to mike's and mike said how do we do matt? How do we do? I said they all gone buddy in two minutes The phone lines are rams What do you want to do and he went and he had a meeting with agi I don't know what was said it wasn't present the next thing another 40 shows were released and they sold out of minutes too ag told me they could have done 300 shows with so much demand And so you can do one night in one night off off to recover My my family mark less's family are kids and mark less's kids who he's got parents to To them and Michael Jackson got parents to the others We're going to live with him at this house to make sure he sleeps properly eats properly when he performs He normally uses three and a half pounds of weight and you want to stop him going on drips or this all this nonsense Make sure you eat proper food and goes to bed And um, that was the plan, but yeah, it never happened So I spoke to him on the Tuesday night before he died he died on a Thursday. He called me up at home I was in basketball and uh, oh the last time I met him I left them at london after he saw the show was like michael was happy he was crying happy tears for great And then I got invited up on on the thursday afternoon He went to see his show. I can't remember what it is now. You went to see a west end show Oh, you went to see all of her twitch That's because he did and it was ironic because mark was there who was the original oliver and uh On as they're coming out of that Mark, so why don't you come and hang out with us all night? He want his favorite meal was fish and chips and he'd like to order himself So we went to night's bridge He walks in and got all wrapped up. He liked the way they always do it in england And we sat on the floor at the lamesborough hotel me mark lester and michael we had fish and chips together And he said i'm worried i'm going to be shot on stage map and he turned to mark said mark Your godfathers are all three of my kids. If anything happens, I get shot on stage. You look after me You probably look after my kids. So yeah, so michael nothing's gonna happen. You'll get Do we're gonna get killed by a shot here? They love you. You just sold out 50 shows The ironic thing is he did die of a shot. He died of a shot of anesthetic, you know He called me on the Tuesday night my wife answered the rehearsal wife answered the phone She said michael's here. He wants to speak to you urgently got him on the phone. He didn't sound good james He said what's up buddy? He said i'm i'm on the way to rehearsals and the damn they're working me so hard I said i said you took something in your voice. I just took effigy in map the doctor gave it to me It's prescription. Don't worry about that. I'm fine. It makes me perform better because i'm making me rehearse rehearse rehearse But i've been doing this for over 30 years and it's working me so hard He said i need to speak to joseph meaning his dad. Where's my where's joseph? I was like jeez. I said your dad's in vegas I'll give you his number. Well, he never asked for joseph before, you know, over that time in the car So it was strange I said you're okay. He said joseph's the only person who could sort this shit out It's a mess. So I got no one's numbers. Nothing. I've got scrap papers everywhere I don't know where I am. What's going on. I'm being controlled I've been made to rehearse and I said, okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa. So this joseph's number I gave joseph's number. He said where's mark's number? He couldn't get everybody's number He rang he got he spoke to my daughter madison And had a conversation with her He tried to speak to her daughter lowly, which was a bit young, but he does worry michael work He spoke to every member of the family I didn't I said you're gonna be okay. We chat for half an hour and then I said like Call joseph And he will be at your site, you know Because he's tried to so much in the past who he would love that call out And he wanted mark to be out there He wanted me to give up my time and get on a plane straight away But I had three kids and a wife and it my marriage was fallen apart I didn't think he was going to die james, you know, I thought he's just going to cancel the concerts That's happened many times Anyway, he calls mark mark says the same. I'm a single dad or four children I can't come michael, but I'll do my best to get to la with you as soon as I can He left a message on joseph jackson asked the phone saying joseph i need you and alay You're the only person who could sort this mess out. Please come sadly Joseph didn't pick that up until late on the thursday the thursday And michael was already dead by then Yeah, so I sat at home and the phones were ringing off the hook. Yuri Geller was the first person to ring me Because he's the go-to person for michael jackson saying I got fox news cnn on the phone. They all say michael's Had a heart attack. So just one of his publicity starts my amount of times I rang that guy and he's laughing at me saying i'm behind that story You know sticky tape all over his face. We cut myself shaving and he promised to take the kids to the bookstore I said i'm gonna ring him again because he's got a concert in a few weeks. I was too clear. It's the publicity He said that's not true. I spoke to him on tuesday. He's fine Damn that I forked focal came to Yuri saying are you sure matt because I've got everyone I'm going down my drive my mobile phones are going off the hook. I like hear the landline going off the hook So i said michael's a genius of publicity Yuri you know what he's like And then on my other phone. I see the phone flash up mark lester And I think now he is close close to michael He speaks to the nanny. He's via that circle, you know And I thought jeez Yuri I better go mark's calling my answer the phone's matt. Where are you? I said i'm in living room It's not good news at mark Listen buddy michael's dead So I just spoke to the nanny grace and she's screaming down the phone michael's dead. What's happening? so I don't know But he's dead and no one was reporting on the news at the time Because they're too scared to be the first person So after about an hour it flashed to michael jackson's in a coma I knew he died by that point. I had his brother's ringing me and are you with my brother? What's going on? And I I already knew and I said, I don't know what's going on. I'm not with him and Yeah, and then later on alayne news got confirmation of corona and it turned to michael jackson passed away age 50 and uh Jesus immediately were harsh after that with helicopters over the house and everything was madness up to madness and Yeah, well, when someone's dead you can't defame a dead person by the way That's why hence all this negative stuff come out. You can say what you want about michael He can't see you can't defame that law needs to be changed so the state can sue or something You can say what you want about them. But yeah, that's how I last conversation I was on the tuesday night Did they think he was going to get killed could that have possible did could that have possibly not murdered? Or was it just one of those things that was always going to happen because of all the The drugs that it took over the years and michael michael michael felt that he was going to be um assassinated for his money He thought he could be killed for a beat or scatterlock. I'm honest with you. That's what he used to say all the time I just thought it was mad conspiracy theory but um I mean from my point of view the truth of the matter is he the doctor come around me. I spoke to come around when he came Out of jail I wanted to hear him out and he wanted to speak to me He he did an interview with some newspaper wrote in his book and he said It he quotes in it michael jackson was begging me to contact mark lessor matt fides to come and stay with him He writes that in this this this news article. He got interviewed by the mayor or son. He's out there on google for people to read I came to my attention. I thought okay. I'll hear comrade murray out Now this guy was just a family doctor recommended by another body guy when we lost vagus the kids had the flu We can't rock up to a gp surgery with michael jackson didn't work out that well, you know a hospital It's a chaos So we took the recommendation comrade murray comes in the doctor great guy lovely bloke treats the kids Came friends with michael over the course of the few years whenever the kids were ill we'd pop in And so so for when we moved to los angeles michael lost that relationship with comrade murray And I don't think he was licensed to prescribe an alay just in vagus And uh, he wanted comrade murray to come to the otu concerts with him and there was a whole procedure to get his license to Describe it to be a doctor in london Which he was applying for he was just like a family doctor. That's all we fought anyway And I didn't know the crazy stuff that was going on The oxygen tanks or that was going on the bedroom Yeah, and it it turned out that From comrade murray what he told me on the phone, which was when I spoke to him after he came out of jail He did serve two years He told me I didn't know I was getting involved with an addicts mat and I got in too deep. I gave up four Practices cardiologist. I gave up four practices I never got paid a penny for michael ag never paid me or michael ever paid me I think it's 150 000 a month. He got agreed. Sorry like that's a mad figure um I I was the full guy for all the other doctors and there's some truth to that there is the doctors out. They should be in jail they're still practicing right now and um Yeah, I just want to say my piece. I I got in too deep I just didn't realize that my kind of sleeping problem. He also in the daytime He was going to deserve a doctor who was working on the anesthetic side and taking this demoral And you can't just cut that drug off after being using that for a few months That doctor couldn't come to london with him giving demoral perfidy So he michael didn't tell comrade mary according to comrade mary that he was also seeing a doctor in the daytime He told him he was going off to rehearsals So michael said dot comerry said he was treating michael for insomnia where in fact he should have been treating him for You know, um drug withdrawal symptoms. That was it was like a monster walking around. He couldn't sleep or anything You know, it's just Nothing would work And he would have took him to rehab and treat him differently had he known he was going to deserve a doctor in the daytime I didn't forgive comrade and I said to comrade, you know, what you did was wrong and And you you you owe the kids an apology. He don't think he does he thinks michael did it to himself He felt michael woke up And when he when he was left in the room and he just pressed the syringe and flooded his body with By accident he felt he only gave him enough for him to knock himself to sleep. That was it And uh, and yeah, I mean what can I say? I wasn't that only only the doctor knows what really happened Could that have been a suicide Could michael no michael would never suicide. He wouldn't have done that years ago He wouldn't think you'd always say I'll cut my wrist before committing suicide I've got he would never do that to his children and james. He loved his kids so much He loved his he loved his fans. So doled his fans. He would never do that. That's not the legacy he wanted Maybe accidental possibly I think what really you know The box was done from accidental, um, honestly manslaughter in the end I think what happened is he was taking this drug which mean you would go for an operation for Turn around aesthetic. He was giving a michael to that not in an environment where he should have been monitored by Heart monitors and oxygen monitor. None of that was in place And he possibly well, this is what the he was done for was gave it to him the wrong way Fall asleep never woke up And his story that michael woke up and gave it to himself That thing is possible for my understanding if you just sit as that stuff hits your bloodstream You would fall asleep and they did fingerprints on the end of the string and stuff and nothing showing up only um Only come at murray. So Yeah, well, he's done it then. Yeah. Yeah, it's an accidental. Whatever. It was wrong. It was wrong for him to administer He should have said no He should have dug harder Well, michael he he was he gave up all his doctor practices If you look at another way He needed the money, right? He that was the thing. So he was being a yes man another yes man Blocked her to michael, which is very dangerous. Yeah Do you think you would have even finished the thought issues? No his age and hopefully it wasn't I called urie gallo up Michael told me he called the show. This is it. That's what he's going to announce So I called urie gallo up michael's coming to london. Do you want to see him? You michael wants to see you and repair the damage of the might and be sheer thing He understands it's not your fault that michael picked might be sheer and he had sir david frost and louis furoux louis furoux went into his own documentary in the end and followed us but he couldn't ask you so funny He's put notes under with smiley faces. Please let me have an interview he interviewed michael's dad. He was hilarious um But yeah, he wanted to meet urie and stuff and and and repair it but now When I said to urie these shows are called. This is it. Yeah, they will be this is it There's no way mic can do And urie knew him better than I did no way that he could do who could what human could do that I mean I'd be like me doing a workout for four hours and Every other night full on with no break michael don't just stand there with a microphone. He's full on You know, he loses three and a half pounds a night I thought I my in my head. I thought he would do two or three shows and then he would Put a stick he'd get paid anywhere on his insurance Oh, by the way, he passed the full medical. That's the other thing. What is the sense of that? He's ill and frail Ag wanted him to show it up. He passed a full medical examination He was seen as a man in his 20s so fit He needed a hip operation a little bit and he had a bit of a fright so his ankle but other than that It's sad though when you see like your Whitney Houston's your Elvis Michael Jackson how they all end up with the drugs Just that fame. It's not it's not normal for anybody watching It's maybe skeptical of Michael Jackson all the question marks with the fucking pedophilia and all the other shit that goes with it What would you say to them? Look at what's going on to the current world. Look at the people now being accused. Look at Russell Brand You know media attacking him when there's no there's no criminal thing filed trial by media now, isn't it? I can name so many names, but it's controversial on people. I think it's go for another one, isn't it? He's a bit of a saint now, but for a few weeks. He's the most hated person ever He's not he's now the most in demand wanted back on tv percent that there ever is I mean, I could go on and on and on Max Clifford the famous publicist was put in jail for crimes. He did 30 40 years ago He didn't even remember who they were not saying is I don't know if they were true or not What about Michael Jackson's celebrity friends? Who was his close ones? Chris Tucker The Jimmy curse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, not so much like he'd be around, but he was just like still the room He the guy was so funny just looking at him with his big eyes and his funny face and make you crack up Ah, Eddie Murphy was a good friend his closest friend out of all of them was McCauley. He told me this McCauley Colkin was his closest friend Mack was his closest friend. Elizabeth Taylor also Would bring up all the time be there for him all the time, but Mack was his closest friend. Do you miss him? I miss Michael massively man. I mean it's Ah, geez man. I had to go through a whole counseling process after because everyone wants to talk about Michael Jackson and I know Alvis Presley bodyguard very well. He's also a martial arts called Bill Wallace. Bill Superfoot Wallace, they call him He also bodyguard for John Belushi. He takes the mick out and he said you weren't there for Michael, were you? When he died, I thought, well you you can talk you had John Belushi and Alvis Presley die on your watch He's an all-fucking jank. She's your buddy Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's taking the mick out of me. You lost Alvis and John Belushi on your watch But I went there that night But he said to me because like what really annoyed me is up until the point where Michael died. I was 29 13 2009 And I was known as the businessman entrepreneur Multi-minute successful martial arts champion, etc But as soon as he died any media about me always had to start off with Michael Jackson for my bodyguard Hang on a bit. What about forget about me? May by me Even when I did rich house poor I say banned them for mentioning Michael Jackson We had a contract in place But the bloody media around it when I appeared on it Michael Jackson bodyguards on which I thought it was a waste of time I banned them wanted to be about my career for a change not about Mike You know But yeah, I miss him massively. I you know, he was my mate my best friend. I could tell him anything I learned so much from him. He taught me how to franchise I love him to see what I've gone on to do and meet my kids. He never met and Yeah, and what mark's gone on to do and See his kids great missed out his kids growing up I mean it's devastating the whole thing is just tragedy And I just and also the world misses him. I think there's no one like Mike James I used to say that I used to enjoy the rehearsals more than performance that guy was just electric I used to say to where did that come from? How could you go for me so shy? And you get a microphone and animals. I don't know just comes from above. I've got no idea Yeah, it's just an insane talent. It's unbelievable. It was a funeral Yeah, the funeral was controversial Because he had many funerals He had a memorial one for the fans. He had another funeral and then I think his brain got to go away three times because no one would want to believe your top see there's so much conspiracy around What how he really died? No one to see him and dying as a drug overdose. A lot of people thought he was killed and Yeah, it was dragged out for many many many many times and I think the family did it right I think the kids were in about a hard place because all of a sudden they were thrown into this family And then the dad was on around and they turned and Mrs. Jackson Catherine Decided it's enough for the mass now let the world see let the see them who they are and deal with life Which I think was the right move at the time So they they became celebrities and their own rights, you know Yeah, we all got if I'm honest with you, we all got when Michael died All of us included mark. Who's who's Michael's? Who's godfives of Michael should we all got shut out? Yeah, we all got shut out. We we every now and now speak to one of the brothers But um, we all got shut out For whatever reason, I don't know. I think everyone was after Michael's money I mean When he was dead he became rich again. He died 500 million in debt And now he's worth billions They got the biopic which they're recording at the moment where Jermaine's son jafar just looks like Michael sounds like Michael dance like him And the same people to the behemial raps he Freddie Mercury's life story They're working with Michael Jackson's estate and the family they reckon to be the biggest movie of all time comes out next year And that features they got someone playing me They just get someone to grow a pony tail and have people pick someone handsome But uh, are you going to be in it? I don't I don't know. Uh, well, there's no chat chitchat going on at the minute But I don't know. It's still a great thing man. It's a great accomplishment. He's trying to use it President matt I like it says the fucking biggest name on the planet. It's an unbelievable that you are so Showed at the shoulder when he was going up the nonsense James He was going to be a positive for Michael Jackson and not a negative everything you see is negative I even think some of the radio stations don't even play music anymore because of the controversy with them Yeah But the trouble is they make so much money off the back of it. They can't not I mean I would direct for a period that that did happen. They tried to cancel Michael, but he's too big to cancel The documentaries that tell you the truth are not out there If you go to amazon, you can watch chase the truth man behind the mirror Where they explain and break down about the train station not being there and all this type of stuff But it's not a mainstream. Is it the cody field been not come forward? Is it come forward and said nothing ever happened and he said I'm I'm I'm crazy if anyone was going to go for it Be me. I mean the guys that mccolby's made millions from home alone. Everything Cory came forward and said It took his time. We come forward and said like do you want to speak up? I was the perfect guy who fit the so-called fit the narrative that the mainstream either wanted to believe in And he did nothing to me. Yeah, there's no be a lot of people hang around Mike. It's nonsense, man The whole idea of him fiddling kids, right? It's just ridiculous. Let's look at another point of view, right? So I had this conversation with one of his other friends He my other friend bought it up. He's a doctor and he said if this these boys were Would were having sessions with Michael, you know, whatever at seven eight years old Doctors told me in physically possible. They're not even sexually active They haven't got the hormones to make it happen It just can't be possible the ages that they were claiming to be aged their age, you know I didn't think of that. They're not going through puberty yet It's completely out of ball. I mean the guy was into women, but Social media come along and disrupted this whole Motown taught me this Motown told me not to be married. I must show my sexuality. You didn't want upset gay He's such a lovely bro. You want some gay people or anyone but he was His girlfriend assigned. I think she signed an agreement, but she basically she's been out and talked to the media But no one wants to listen. It's just uh Like the general clubhouse was big Me and my friend Rob Moore We ran a big massive clubhouse room and I got his girlfriend on clubhouse as a guest and the Rendown really well and we had the media join but no one reported off the back of it She got published book if that published book was not true Do you state with a suit and all sorts, you know and but yeah, what can you do? I mean I can change the narrative. It's uh Yeah, if he was here, he would be suing like crazy. They wouldn't done it. They want to spoke out And and the whole perjury thing didn't answer that one. Did I so the perjury thing raid robson? Why wasn't he done for lion on oaf? I asked the question to michael's lawyers. They said in america in los angeles if you get past I think it's seven years They can't go back. It's a safe zone. So raid was doing all these tribute acts Trying to get in circus delay trying to be mj1 in vegas to the show in control But he said meet him with the estate got turned down and and then we when he got to was it 2012 2015 2015 this program come out 16. It was like 12 13 years since michael died so he's long past the stage where the lawyers could come out in for perjury Yeah, what do you think about looking back and oh no Yeah, well at the time it's normal. I just wish I could have done more but I was part of this insane Network forget about michael's pop star The way he fought was not like we think he fought out of the box. That's good Let's make it better. You know up you game matt be respectful to my fans um One thing he taught me which I observed with him And I've seen about the stars. They don't do very well when they go the movie premiere They just run in with his raining that man would sign autographs like tom cruise is very good at that He would work the crowd they take him hours to get wet through michael would remind us be kind to the fans because they put me where I am that's why michael jackson exists This is what controls it be nice to my fans with respect to my fans and hose leaf late no Yeah, I mean, it's just um, it's great man. I mean I'm I'm more of a business mental entrepreneurship people to start scale businesses now and And so forth, but yeah, it's great. We still got the the biggest chain of martial arts school in the world We're expanding all around the world And uh, I still get asked about mike every day and it's big part. It's 10 years of my life So you I would not be asked about him I've learned to accept it And um, that would lie it does open doors and sometimes it shuts doors too but And I've learned to live with the whole michael jackson bodyguard thing you learn to accept it like average president bodyguard told me He's proud of it now. I'm proud to be by my mate's side. I've got his back in death just like I did in life And that's you know, they everyone could talk what they want about him But I was there and I I saw it saw everything and the guy was It fought out of the box. He was just a um, but you see that his music videos If you play backs move criminal and filler they're still current the guy was the head of his time He was thinking ahead of his time. He's thinking about 40 before he's even a thing You know if had that show gone ahead no trivino, you guys would have been blown away He had waterfalls coming down and he invented a new moonwalk It was going to be unbelievable. It says he was going to expose something. Do you know what it was? He says he was going to just pull the curtain down on everything. I don't know what he was talking about I don't know of you in those days Say but yeah Basically all the kid stuff would have been blown to pieces by what he was going. Yeah, basically you would have known he was into women It would have been that might still happen That might still happen It just takes a certain someone to um speak out It could still happen that would just kill off all the kid room is I've got videos of pictures james that I could release to the media which will kill that off I mean he's snogging a woman at the back of the freaking car and we're like you Can you uh might can you get a room like I just I'm just chewing gum honestly, you know And it's not just me the other bodyguards too. I wasn't with him for the last two years I was his friend not his bodyguard and they did a book about it called remember the time Bill Whitfield and and all the lads and they were with him and they said that figure What's all this kid stuff? He's this guy's got women coming out all over the place kissing on the back of the limo and When he lived in Vegas for two years before he moved to LA so I know he's mad, isn't it? Which is kind of to stand it I can't understand it. Did they have any regrets mico? Yeah, he did but he said I wish I practiced more No, no, what would you have? How can you practice anymore, man? Or you got you got your peak. You can't do any more than what you've done. Should I I wish I practiced more. I wish I rehearsed more. I wish I worked hard on my art my craft It's so mad that you were so young and in that company. Oh, oh, jeez. And that's fucking nuts people ask all the time Would you be where you were if it weren't for him? And it's kind of hard to answer that It wasn't really matter if you were there. Yeah, it wasn't really matter Like I say everything's business everything's to It business it was show business You know what I mean? Everything's like you say you became a friend and you've got his back and you're sitting here I don't know everything you're saying is a hundred percent But people can only take what you're saying and you could make this up. Could you? Yeah, of course the coffee, you know, it's this, you know, it's uh Yeah, he's my mate And that was that but it's it's hard to convince the public so I know I know What was Britney Spears on that like? Britney's lovely girl. She's lovely. She seems to be losing her shit now as well unless that's a publicity stunt that Mico used to do Well, she's sharp She's intelligent and she's uh, she did a duet with Michael in 2001 where you make me feel Like Madison Square God's the last big concert he ever did And I spent the time with Britney and she's um Yeah, she's a smart cookie, but she'll be just fine now She'll be okay. Is there any other celebrities you go? Do you know what they ever sound? Massive names. Yeah. Yeah, they're all the bigger the stars and I said the person That's that's what I normally find the reality stars are normally the ones that are hard to deal Yeah, the superstars are right, uh Anyone who sticks out Elizabeth Taylor was lovely, man. She's so nice. I'm Trying to think of my name Brando. He was incredible. He used to come his dad never land all the time too He was there just before he died. He was 2003 He was there. Michael wanted to be with him Um, I pretty much met everyone. I mean, I've had a mad life James even now like my It bit my association not my own career as well ending to his and my network of friends pretty much wherever I go in the world if I want to be on tv as long as I Talk a little bit about him. I can get on anything. Yeah How much were people because I had someone on who was a bodyguard of Diana or Dodie Yeah, um, they used to get a million pounds a photo for an exclusive of princess guy It must have been about the same for michael jackson. I'll take your story for this, right? So Yeah, the the fee for So the big tabloid at the time would offer the world is a million pound For any paparazzi you could get a picture of mike What, you know anything unusual especially as kids And that was the thing so I was uh Where the hell I was like I was in London I went to visit one of my martial arts schools actually on the way back in uxbridge And on the way back I had a reporter call me and they said listen We know you're really close to michael. You'll be seeing him next week I'll give you we will offer you a million pounds. We'll give you half up front And half also if you get pictures of the children unmasked just one shot That's it I was like you can off do one No chance. I didn't need the money. I'll do you know, I wouldn't do that to my friend put the phone down now I remember twice. I thought God, I gotta make sure it's how michael I tried getting hold I couldn't get to mike His number changed all the time I got waiting to bring me back because he gets harassed all the time when he's flying all over the place So I left a message with pa and I said can you get michael to bring me urgently? Um, he didn't ring me didn't ring me. I saw him Out in person And we're I was in the car with him. We're being driven to a meeting And um, he said matt house life. It's like good anything happened recently. You want to tell me about No, oh michael. I forgot to tell you I've had this journalist call me and they offer a million pounds for The pictures of the kids be careful. They've got a ransom. I tried to convince me to take the money Just want to be transparent. We let you know Matt you're such a loving guy. You're so loyal I said why? That was me buddy. That was me. I put a voice on it was me speaking to you Yeah, I thought I was talking to a poor. I was talking to michael. He put a voice on He's so good. He's good. He can act. He could do everything. He'd change his voice and stuff and I said you I got you got me, you know, that's fucking mad. I know. Yeah. Yeah. He tested me. He tested my loyalty I had to because you're doing paranoid as fuck. Yeah, he tested me. Yeah Like I see it's unbelievable. One of his on trial said he couldn't trust matt for that. He couldn't trust him So he put a test on me. He put a voice on and he had this thing That we had this device so when every down to the phone, it'd be like a robot sound And then when he realized it's really genuine me or one of his mates who'd switch it and they'd talk to you Just so just in case of someone trying to stitch him up on the phone line or something, you know All right, the funny thing you prankster man in new york and we were what go to watch toy story two I think it was Michael said go meet me in the underground car park because he had no problem I said dress down mike so you don't get recognized because it'll be chaos because we weren't shutting down the cinema So I'll go in the the we call it the chase car And michael would normally sit on me with me in the chase car and let the media think he was the one in front So we a bit more safety there He took flipping ages and finally michael comes in and sits next to me and he's got his face mask on the fedora Dangerous tall world jacket the loafers or everything you see michael jackson as he has it on I'm like mike. She I thought you'd try not to be recognized. Ah Well, you know, you're a bit of a mood today and then um, you started driving And I thought that's a few questions. I've got a few one word answers Guys, are you all right? It's a bit grumpy. Did you get more sleep? So I hope you get better me all the time we get to toy story get to the theater and we started circling The um, it's normal. We'd circle around and do a recce. We called it first before we get my cow And um, my phone go my mobile goes and it michael said you better get that It's from with held on my answer phone. Hey, man. Hi gotcha. Ah, it was michael freaking body double next to me There's body double next to me He's the guy was on like a salary to divert attention. He was already the movie's waiting for me See his hair was that all wigs then did his hair start falling out? Ah He will he wore wigs they they were in his room, but he's because of the um the bun the bird. Yeah It's sad, isn't it as well? Like I say if ever took me years to throw that out He's to cook. I must be stupid or something because in the morning, you know, they've been hairstyle In the afternoon come out and his hair would be longer. I don't know why I just thought he had a great hairstyle is but It took me ways. I didn't obviously ask about the wigs, but yeah, I sold them in the end. I got it Let's do to the burn. Yeah It's mad that you've you did spend so long with him and get to know the guy and it's unbelievable The stories that you've just told as well because there's a lot more to you the entrepreneur and stuff like that Like again for anybody that's watching it's maybe want to be an entrepreneur start a business What's the sort of in thing to go to? I think you you've got whatever you're passionate about whatever you love doing your hobby your passion Turn that into your hobby to create your passion into your profession Do something you love or don't do it at all because you're gonna have to graph this, you know It's not easy. There's no gets rich quick scheme out there to get rich slow. That's what you want to be involved in and For me you got six figures in in the passion that you have and invest into property that's for me real estate. That's that's That's my formula, which I teach people to do and then scale your business out through franchising or licensing But yeah, it's not that hard to do but find something you love monetize it And then you'll have that passion and drive to want to keep doing it do something you don't love couldn't think of anything worse So I love what I don't need to work anymore, but I work like crazy because I love it If I want to take a day off I can I want all my franchises to be where I am They're like family to me, you know The downside to my career is that my my siblings and my my my family we have not spoke for like 16 years because It's uh, you know careers getting away. It's it's it's hard. You see that a lot with successful people So there's some downsides to being successful and yeah, my biggest regret for me is I would not let my family Life kind of go the way it's gone. I was very close to one of my brothers extremely close every day like we were together for 12 years, but Yeah, my ego my success got a bit too me had to me a bit and I think and uh, I wish I worked on that Kind of hard for us to get together now because we've got nothing in common. It would be difficult You've gained a lot from michael jackson, but you seem to have sacrificed a lot to be with him as well If you see that is how much he actually sacrificed to be with this guy and again It's that attraction make listen michael jackson's on the phone He's a fucking global phenomenon like he's there's one in that one Yeah, a hundred billion whether another guy like that to ever come around again and change music dancing everything that he's done Like did you do you look back and realize that we actually sacrificed to just be with that guy? I look back and realized that my adulthood was not normal And but I wouldn't change it james. I just would have not when he clicked his fingers. I want to jump off an island with my rehearsal wife and Ruin relationships and friendships just because of my friendship with a megastar I could have been a bit harder on him with the drug thing possibly And so on I don't know we all think that we could be in the one to save someone But he can only save himself and say that's also a wonderful thing if you put it on him and told him straight He's like you see you're gonna get fucking bombed out. Do you know what when I realized? I had a certain amount of ego to how can you not how can you be 18 years old to 30? Not have a bit of an ego about you and your best mates are superstars I used to wonder why why people hated me in north devon barstable But now I get it. I had long hair permed down muscled up pecs driving a Ferrari 355 spider with the roof off in the flipping winter with baby wool on Making millionaires my best mates are superstars. I wonder why the town in north devon hated me That's not normal. Is it I get it now when I look back But I think I would have It's less that you can't teach us to score the hard knocks. You have to go for it now. I teach people If they listen, they listen, but you got to put your family first in your health So I got woke up when my mum called me. She's got six months to live She was my flippin rock. I talked to her 15 20 times a day. That's no exaggeration We managed to keep her life. I thought I missed a big shot. I'm friends of powerful people here I get the best and I did. I've got the best professor in breast cancer from Dublin. I paid 50 000 brown for an experimental drug Um, I gave her an incredible she went on to live four years bless her I can't understand it. What should I coughing going into the ground? I was 32 years old. My mum was 56 and I had all this money in the big mansion I'm getting flip and I got my three little kids there looking at nanny going in the ground, you know and thinking None of this crap matters None of this celebrity superstar the money matters Couldn't save my mother your healthy family have to come number one If I lost everything tomorrow, as long as I got my wife and my six kids, I'm just fine Where do you go forward for the future? I'm not I want to change as many people's lives as I possibly can. I've made my money by changing people's children become You know overcome stigmas and stop being bullied at school My goal now is to change people's lives financially make it as many people financially free as I possibly can in the world as my passion project james I still gotta run all the other businesses and be involved in it and so on They're like my family my franchises are my side of this thing. It's called the money freedom club. It's the ww.mf.club It's only 10 or a month basically and it's basically I give people access to me at free events So you don't get pitched to no size. So I bring my celebrity mates from my contact book I've got one coming up. I've got some big name supermodels come in and Most most seemingly there's Nigel Farage is coming as well and Yeah, open up my contact but to give back. I feel like I need to give back now to To everyone who's supported me over the last this mad journey. I've been on to nearly three decades leading this industry So it's not just it's not my side. It's every sector in business and property So I give back a pot these events on every three months. I got one coming up It's almost full out now 300 people coming to devon to hang out on me and celebrity powers And we give them real content to give we're not selling nothing to go away And I run this this membership site. I enjoy it I do two or three videos a week when I got a spare time I'll jump on a zoom with them all give them some answers value I love doing that So my vision is to try and make as many people financially free and as well as I can I'm not have to look at receipts So I believe more divorces are caused by lack of money Depression people on depression. That was due to money problems, you know bad relationship with the kids due to money and I want to For what I've learned from Michael and all these people Everything he's taught me. I want to pass it on the stuff. He don't teach at school college university What's your biggest life lesson that you've learned so far? Study the mental study the best of what you do And I make yourself better For anybody that's watching it's maybe in a life I struggle you've surrounded yourself with people who've battled in life What advice would you give for those who are in struggle right now? Okay, well, I went through struggles just like anyone else when I do stage talks people sit forward I talk about it. So I don't think enough people who are entrepreneurs Gurus talk about you are going to face challenges in life From that period. I'm human, right? Everything happened at once mum's dying Michael died media evasion problems with my family Um being a single dad of three daughters difficult living in a mansion On your own weekends on your own pacing the corridors at two o'clock in the morning thinking Where's all my mates, you know the last lot of mates when Mike died and When you go for a split family kind of side one way Get your kids only once every couple of weeks when I used to see them every damn day Christmas we shut down for two weeks for organizations that we have from the from the 16th of December to December January I've seen no one Christmas day on your own. It's not a pleasant experience I don't have ever experienced that but from Christmas Eve Christmas Day Boxing Day It was horrendous two years like that one time I mean, I've got people who look up to me but I'll tell you the truth I I took sleeping pills An alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel so no one could find me because everyone's like oh come hang out with me Christmas Day, but I'm not they want to be a sympathy act Um kind of I stay myself. I suppose they say it's lonely as you get Grow your career. I slept from Literally Christmas Eve right through to past Boxing Day So I couldn't hear any Christmas music and stuff because it wasn't my turn to have my children that year I was a single dad Yeah You it was just I've had bad times. I've been on anti-depressants too much anti-depressants They'd prescribed me Dizy Dizy Pam Which I became addicted to for three years and my support number my franchisees were fully behind me, but I'm a human being I can I couldn't deal with You it's like um when you build your muscles up in the gym the more weight you put on you You gain muscle your mental muscles need to get you can have pain You're going to come up with challenges things are going to go on love ones are going to die People are going to screw you over in business. That hurt me. First time I got screwed over now It's just oh next. No, it's just life. It's sad though. Michael Jackson died alone biggest star in the world Elvis Yeah, again, you were suicidal You've got everything materialistic. You've not speak to your brothers like sad. Yeah, I'd love to speak to them again Is it worth it? Success if I could go back. I would have just got a job normal job Honestly because I want to be successful, but I know the sacrifice it comes with it because I speak to enough people To understand it's not everything but yet we still crave it. I don't know. I don't know if that's ego pride I don't know if it's greed because I still show gratitude. I still help others along the way, but It's a fucking constant battle because I know the tools and I know it takes you But there's just something ingrained to try and keep leveling up as well. Yeah It's fucking you don't need a kind of wow five bills if I could go back. I would have Know what I know now put myself on a plan to maybe earn 10 grand a month and and Have all the time with my kids and family without this massive pressure of running these big businesses and But then I do it to myself James. I mean I could I could have got out of 22 I didn't but then what I'm supposed to do when else goes to work. So Yeah, I mean some holidays you can take in it at least so many times you can Take your missus to bed You know the decade I mean come on. It's like what you do be yourself So I do I I don't regret it because I've changed thousands hundreds of thousands of people's lives through my career and influence them and Had an impact on the world and I started off this whole martial arts business thing now. We should become the norm However, um Yeah, I would have just I would have stuck it maybe like I don't I don't admit it my my rehearsal wife was right. Why can't you ever be satisfied? You got everything I did have everything when my mid 20s. I could have just chilled out a bit took more holidays and focused on my house bit more time on my mom When the last days I I regret that because I did big things to run. But yeah, it's yeah It's learning. It's not regretting. I can pass that information on to people who won't make that error So I don't regret it because I can pass that on to someone else because there's videos doing the dreams on social media If you only see your mom or dad once or twice a year and they've only get 10 or 20 years to go That means you're only going to be with them another 20 times You don't know what's gonna happen there all the time. It's like and the amount of suicides because I'm in the organization I'm linked to hundreds of thousands of people Every day I hear of a different suicide hanging. I don't it seems to be a trend at the minute and We've lost friends actually recently my wife's hairdresser just committed She saw us a week before week before and then she committed suicide I show my friends my wife sort of day off when she did that night I don't know. I don't know. It's just different. I think it's very different now and I think uh But I do believe in the law of attraction everything happens for a reason and it serves us my life is Carved its way So now I can go back and teach lessons that no one else has had the life I've had you could make it out You can't re reincarnate that that lessons from People and I can now educate people on the school of hard knocks, which is the real life lesson forget about university You want to be a doctor lawyer? Dentist accountant. It's great. But otherwise you want to learn business You can be taught by a business lecturer. It's never even known the business before. How does that work? That's like going to a swimming instructor who doesn't have to freaking swim so Yeah, I'm passionate about the education system being outdated. I want to do something about that What's all your social media is matt for anybody that's working getting contact to ask you questions If you want to put it out there That's right. Get me if they go to a website go to www.mf.crub www.mf.club On my socials on there Instagram Facebook at official matt for this at official m a t t f i d d e s I'm a humble guy. I've not got vas Anyone's welcome to inbox me if any challenges or if they've got mental health problems or whatever I'll be there on the phone. I love doing that type of someone. I'm out walking and things So feel free to reach out and it's been a pleasure James. Yeah, matt. Would you like to finish up on anything else? I just think at the moment, right Whenever you're watching this times are tough, but times have always been tough. There's always been wars But we've got more media now. So sit in our age James. You're similar age to me Um, we had the Gulf War when we're growing up. Didn't we and I heard my parents talking about that We had the 1989 recession would have heard bits about that my mom crying Stay positive dream it believe it achieve it Try not try and block out the noise And be careful what you consume especially in the current era on tick tock and podcast watch the stuff that only is going to relate and benefit to your life Be careful who you listen to don't take advice. Love your family But don't take advice of your parents or grandparents, but love them And um, whatever you do whatever you put your mind to Just go for it. But put your health and family first Yeah, matt listen if I give them any time brother, I thoroughly enjoyed it It's unbelievable what you've came through in life and what you're doing now I wish you nothing but the best for the future mate and again, thanks for coming on today Bit of pleasure. Thank you