 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by Dennis Brown aka mouse mouse Welcome to the show. Oh, thank you Bart. And thanks for having me. Sure. Sure. This is really cool to learn about Kent drums, which I think is a sort of well-known drum brand I mean, it's kind of one of those things where it's not, you know, the big four or five companies It's it's sort of flew under the radar but has has a neat history that I'm excited to learn From an expert such as yourself, but before we start I always think it's important to thank the people who got us connected. So Mr. Donnie Bayard is a fellow Kent enthusiast. Yep. I think Donnie too. He's a great guy and he has it vintage Kent drum appreciation page on Facebook and he uses my Photo of my drums in my basement as the front header and yeah, I'm proud of that. Thank you, Donnie Yeah, that's awesome. And and then also just a shout out to Mark Cooper who Many people know Mark's been on the show before and it's just an awesome guy I've met him a few times in real life, which doesn't always happen At the drum shows and he's got it. He's got some photos provided by you as well on Cooper's vintage drums Dot-com Cooper with a C So also a shout out to to mark Cooper there as well. So mouse. Let's learn the history of this this interesting company Okay, I'd like to start with saying that the Kent family is originally from Poland Joseph Kwiatkowski came to America Because he was unwilling to fight in the Russo Japanese war Because he hated the Russians and so he came to America to stay with the resistant groups and there was some resistant groups in Buffalo and in Cleveland interesting so he comes over to Ellis Island and They tell him you'll have to wait at least a week to get to Cleveland and And and but he said but they told him but there's actually a train going to Buffalo, New York Tomorrow he goes I'll take that one so he ends up in Buffalo and he he settled down some friends that came over earlier and he He was in the Black Rock area. That's where he started out right here in Buffalo, New York and A few years later after establishing himself He went back to Poland to get his family. He had five children and a wife So this is around 1905 So he comes back to America with the family and in the next few years They would have four more children and three of those children would be Walter Edward and William Kent So as we fast forward here Edward Was in World War two and at the end of the war he was liberating Nazi concentration camps and At this time William Kent was working at the Gretz factory So when when Ed got out of the service He started a company and he called it the Excelsior Drum Company and they're located in Hollis Long Island and And and when Bill decided to resign from Gretz and join Edward in his business So not too long after that they decided that they wanted to relocate to their hometown of Buffalo, New York and they did that and they opened up shop on a street off of Seneca Street called Nichols Place and They're there for for a few years and that's right. They started getting the equipment to build shells and whatnot Well, they needed more space So they moved down the street into the Larkin warehouse building this huge seven foot tall building and they're on the fourth floor So after being there for quite some time four years at least A Bill tells me Edward did not like driving into the city Probably mainly because of bad winners. Sure. So so Edward, you know being the owner of the company He purchased some property out in the town of town of Tanawanda right on the border of Kenmore and that's where they built the current factory which is still standing there by the way and When they when they first started out it took like a year to build and they only had about like 10 employees So well, but they're they're building drums for different companies like Riviera Paramount Vibratone sort of like in white label or whatever like like we'll make the drums Then you slap your logo on it kind of yes That's what they would do they would you know people people would order drums and Kent would make the drums But then they would put their logo on the drum. Yeah, like the revere logo Sure And but it was right around this time that they decided to start making drums with their own name Kent and that's when they started out making drums You know with the Kent name. Yeah, and like the very early Kent drums were a white bad And so, you know, it went through the 50s Making all kinds of drums making a lot more Kent products And then the 1960s hit. Yeah Beatles come to America and everybody knows what happened. Yeah, Ringo Starr Everybody wanted to be a guitar player or a drummer. Yeah, so that's when Kent's That's when I believe Kent's quality went down a little bit because they're building so many sets I mean these these poor guys were working Eight days a week like Beatles would say yes nice and And they're just banging out the drums and they they they didn't have time They stopped doing bearing edges and all that stuff. Wow. So all right. So these were like Relatively Like I don't want to say these were cost-effective drums These would be like affordable drums from the beginning. Is that right? I mean as opposed to like maybe a Gretch drum set or something These would be more affordable from from the start. Oh, yeah, exactly. And you know you know Kent gets a lot of a lot of slack for being a lore and Drum set although they did make some higher-end stuff. I have sets Mark Cooper's headsets So trust me we realize yeah that they did make a decent drum sure But this is this is what Bill told me and this just sums up the whole Kent philosophy in history This is a quote from Bill Kent He said the inspiration and the purpose of the birth of Kent drums was to give the youth the Opportunity to be able to have an affordable drum outfit, which was known as a starter drum set Bill Kent So that sums it up for me and Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's kind of like It's a it's a good cause Now I want to ask this too. So Bill Kent. You said worked at Gretch Were these guys were Bill and Edward were they you know drum set players themselves? No, they're not. Okay. They never learned the drums. They just didn't have the desire. They just They just wanted to build Sets it's it's still kind of a unique story if you think about it. Yeah, because all your you know like William F. Ludwig the third he was a drummer, but and Bill Kent. No, they're businessmen there's photos of of Bill Kent in the factory in a Buffalo news article and You could tell by the way he's holding the sticks that he knew nothing about drums I mean, it's kind of funny looking at that photo, but yeah, like if you think about it though It's like it's like I mean, I can't even I'm trying to think of the most Obscure kind of thing of like like I have nothing to do it like I'm gonna go start making Tennis rackets even though I don't play tennis. It's like I wonder how you get that in your mind. Maybe I guess Bill working at Gretch, maybe he just like answered a you know, it was like a job opening and he got a job Or is there any like what did he do at Gretch? Is that known? Well, yeah, he was a supervisor. They actually Let's see an agent approached William and They needed somebody to fill the spot of William Gretch because William Gretch had colon cancer And so they actually approached Bill because Bill Bill is an engineer and somehow they got his name and they approached him about the job and he took it It's uh, yeah, it's it's kind of unique too because when When Ed opened up that shop on Hollis Long Island Bill would actually send work To Ed to Ed Shapp and he would like finish off Kent drums He was spray some finishes stuff like that you do ads and then stuff put put the hardware on It's kind of a strange story Yeah, it is but it's not unheard of where people get into drum making who aren't exactly Drummers it seems pretty common. I always say it on this show. I think it's come up a multiple times But like the noble and Cooley guys the family there they aren't they aren't drummers But they make amazing drums and you don't have to be So it's sort of a an interesting thing there, but can we maybe sidebar and talk about Edward and Excelsior drums because I don't know much about about that like how long how was that run because Excelsior is not a hugely known brand either I've seen them pop up But was that was a pretty short run right of Excelsior drums I believe so because I don't think you'll find a Drum set with Excelsior badge Because when they were on Long Island, I really feel they weren't really manufacturing They were because because when it came to Buffalo, I have some early Buffalo news ads It talks about that they refurbished drums and then would resell them So this is before they started manufacturing. They didn't get the equipment until they're on I Nichols place they stay because I guess they figured well We should start manufacturing rather than refurbishing. Yeah, and so so they contacted somebody To to to build the correct Equipment to make shells and they did outsource they had a place in Getsville, New York that made their Lugs and other hardware like their foot pedal. Yeah stuff like that can't basically I think Manufactured the shells and then everything else was outsourced You know like like most companies do sure, but their shells Do you claim they're the best shells in the business? What was there? I know there's multiple different ways to make Shells, I mean, do you have a little insight on their process on making these shells and like plies? Maybe talk a little bit about the the construction of the drums themselves To be you know because to do this in-house Now is like I mean for a company for a drum maker to make their own shells is pretty wild I mean that's expensive to do so What was that process like for them? well, they you know, they would buy the maple veneer from Michigan and What they would do it is that they would cut it the size for the different sized drums and Like the snares and the toms floor toms were were basically just two plies Wrapped inside of each other with scarf joints and then they would put in put in a center Mold section and then they would have to pound in these big wedges to push it together and You know naturally first you would soak the plies to make them pliable Mm-hmm, and then you would glue them up put them in there and then squeeze them together and under heat and Then after a certain amount of time you would turn the heat off let it let it Cool, and then you would pop it out of there and then from there you would Cut cut the correct lengths of the shell you would put on bearing edges And then it would go to the next step which would naturally be You know put putting on the drum wrap and then drill in the holes and and assemble in it Yeah, it's a pretty basic operation but the way they did it was Walter Kent actually Worked at Chevrolet here in the town of Tana Wanda and and when the workers would leave For today at like five o'clock well Walter would be on his way home He would stop at the plant take out the shells from the day shift Then he would put in another whole set of shells and then he would cut some to size So so Walter was a big part of the business plus he was a He was he was a machinist So he had knowledge on and like how to make parts like like I truly believe he was the one that came up with the design of Maybe the lugs yeah, and then the company in guestville would make them make them to their specs Or maybe maybe that the Kent foot paddle because that's what Walter did at Chevrolet. So wow You know, I mean, I don't I don't want to sound like cheesy or anything But it is sort of like a quote-unquote like American dream kind of story where it's like their their family came over And you know was like the whole Ellis Island thing and then it's it's It's just really interesting how then they you know started this business and they all had great Manufacturing jobs and started their own thing and use their skills It's pretty cool. Like a family business like that Now the company started, you know post World War two late 40s. Is that right? William told me and Ed told me they started in 1946 like right after Edward got out of World War two and What what I think what I think is a big reason why they did drums too is because William already had knowledge on how to construct the drums with his working at Working at Gretch. Yeah, and when when When Edward started excelsior He would you know, he would have to walk through the Gretch plant and he got Ideas by looking at how they did things and if you look at that period of drums from Gretch and Kent There's a lot of similarities like the shells. They bolted and use reinforcement hoops Hmm, which was super common in the day in that day for like Insurance basically of not having to go out of round, you know, yeah, and and to be honest with you and In all these years of collecting I've never once seen a shell that was out of round Maybe once I did and the reason for it being I recently worked on a drum where It's it was an old drum prize sitting around for years. It had the top head on but Somebody took off the bottom rim. So you can see The the lugs started caving in on themselves because there was nothing supporting That that bottom part of the lug. Yeah, so then it would bend upwards, you know through moisture and all that So, yeah, the key to keeping those drums round In round I believe is is by keeping the rims on, you know, you take the rims off You're just gonna you know lose everything but sure but Knowledge I've never seen a drum that was like really warped, you know, they're They're based from hoops. They warp because there's really nothing supporting them. Yeah, they warp a lot I I have a lot of bad You know based on hoops that are warped, but then I have a lot of nice ones too well, I mean like Like you said there's nothing supporting it and it reminds me of like if you take the strings off a guitar Which I learned the hard way and then like a guitar up the next start. It's meant to be tensioned. Yes so I was wondering about so a quick question kind of unrelated to the construction is In their span, I mean, they're they're they're obviously making with with their kind of like mission statement for like making affordable Nice drums that people can have did they ever have like Indorsers that were like, you know drummers out there playing these drums and and you know, they're proudly representing Kent well, I've only come across a few people that Like Joey Kramer from Aerosmith started out on set of kens interesting a local drummer Around here named Paul Varga who was in the band Talis Which featured Dave Castino Paul and Billy Sheehan We know went on to play With mr. Big with David Lee Roth. Yeah so Talis is one of one of Buffalo's treasures and I've known Paul and Dave for 40 years for God's sake is When I was young I was 17 18 years old I was working at a nightclub called Harvey and Corky stage one and I got to see all the local bands and one of them was Talis cool. And so I've done interviews with Paul I have a picture what Paul did is he wanted because Kent sold four piece sets and When Paul saw Dave Clark on TV, he wanted a five piece set So he bought another Tom and he found a way of hooking that Tom Tom on onto the This bass drum, so he had two Tom Tom's and I have a picture of that in my book Was it Dave Weckel? Yeah, I believe has using Kent's he's used Kent snares on some recordings Interesting I could see that being one of those deals were like similar to the Japanese stuff where like Somehow these snares are awesome, you know, they're they're they're they're very affordable But like they have that special like secret sauce Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, which you can't put your finger on why but it it worked out, you know So they didn't have any big endorsers because I don't believe they wanted that in the first place But you know all your big stars, you know, they wanted to play Gretch Sure, Ludwig slinger land It's just just the way it was back then and they were a small company So they they didn't they did not want fame and fortune, you know They just wanted to make the drums and stay low-key. They made me net bill told me They never tried to take it to the next level because they didn't want that Yeah, once Rogers drums approach them about moving their business Into the Rogers plant and make affordable drum drum sets for them but the Kent brothers declined because they wanted to stay in Buffalo naturally you got your family here and and You know, they could have could have did that and taken it to the next level But that's what that's not what they were all about. They did not want to do that Yeah, well an interesting thing too. Just you know, it's Anytime I've ever seen pictures of a Kent drum set. It's always a four-piece So it's interesting to hear about a five-piece being made, you know, it seems like they're always the Kind of what you think of with with that like that 60s 50s 60s style four-piece kit went the matching snare and the tom mounted off the bass drum With a little cymbal arm. So so it's neat to think of it being a Five-piece did they is there any info about the wraps and the finishes of like where they would source those or anything? Just you know, cuz there's some really cool Finishes like what is there any info on that? Well what I have found out There's a local company here, which I'm sure you heard of Dupont. Mm-hmm. They helped develop the Marlar drum head for Remo. Mm-hmm. Well, I had found proof that it looks like a Dunlop right here, which would have been Just not far from the factory at all. It was making Kent's drumwrap. That's that's the only source. I I've come across Interesting and and well, I believe in one of my interviews with Bill. That's that's what he mentions and it makes perfect sense you know, and they had their red black in and blue swirl which was Or oyster oyster, which no other drum company had these colors it was exclusive to them like like Mara Cooper would tell you and And I believe it was made right here locally at the Dunlop plant Can I say that a hundred percent? No, but I I Believe that it was because Dunlop is basically just a few miles From the Kent factory on military road. It would make sense. I mean, yes right there So I'm looking at some of the the catalogs that Mark Cooper has on his website and it's it's neat to look at the the prices Where you know an American 124 drum outfit as they call it or American 89 Drum outfit, which I guess you basically get You get everything It's $65 in the mid Let's call it the mid 60s. Well, you know, it's funny because like I say they kept their prices way down But when I okay that catalog you're looking at when I when I look at drums today. Mm-hmm. It seems like It sounds strange, but it seems like if you look at the prices in the catalog That's what they're going for it's in today's market. Yeah Some people get carried away and try to sell Kent drums for you know, like a full drum set for $1,200 which I think which is crazy I think yeah, you know It's just I don't I don't I a nice Kent drum set I would price between four and six hundred dollars You know depending whether if they had double lugs if it has single lugs that brings the value down Yeah It's it's strange because I've gone on eBay and I've found snares for like $30 and And then right as of today, there's some on there for like $267 would I would I pay? 267 if it was a snare that I didn't have they had a rare color I would and I have because I've basically tried to Purchase every known Kent color available. Yeah, and I think I'm pretty close to doing that, you know They've made a lot of different different wraps a lot more than people realize Yeah, like they had they had their mahogany stained shells, but then later on in the late 60s They came out with a mahogany wrap Which is plastic. Oh cool a lot of people don't realize that I have a couple of them in my possession and Getting back on that the piece sure like the five piece sets. I believe Kent started making In the late 60s and if you look at the catalogs, but what they did was They had that little L arm What they just added another one on the other side And then it wasn't until You know not too long after that what they did was they started Using made in japan parts where they could mount two tomtoms on their base drop and then they started bringing in stuff like Made in japan lugs Snare throws kick paddles. Yeah, that's that's when they transitioned from From made in usa to made in japan. Yeah, I mean in You know, I I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking about early on, you know about how they were making drums for You know, like you said white badge where you can put any like revere where you can put something on there Like that's that is totally what the japanese brands did. So they're almost like the Amer, I'm sure there wasn't some other guys doing it at that time, but like they're like the um American version of that where instead of it being like Star who was making like, you know, apollo and all these other brands, whatever. There's tons of them It would be kent. Do you find more kent drums themselves? Or do you find more revere and other drums that are um that are labeled differently and and on that note, how can you tell Uh, is there a particular thing it says On the badge or something like that that'll let you know This is actually a kent drum with a different label on it. Like how can you um tell that You've got a kent drum instead of a japanese drum Before when they were american made when they were just kind of white labeling it Well, how you how you could really tell is just by the parts You know the snare throw throw off because they've actually had like four different throw offs And you could you could really tell by the butt end piece Because kent had this big huge butt end and they use it throughout their career So you could just tell by the parts. Um by the out eyelets And I would say I have more kent snares and and drums Than all the other stuff, but I do have a lot of revere because they did make a lot of revere drums Probably that was their first major customer was revere actually. So you're talking Early fifties They made a lot of revere drums and you could find them to this day. Um quite easily Some of the other drums are harder to find like uh lido um paramount uh pops up And I actually found a drum They had it's a kent drum that has a lincoln a yellow lincoln badge on it But when I asked uh william He said no, they did not make lincoln, but the thing is You have to remember when I was interviewing bill he was in his He was in his 90s and he can't remember everything No, and if you're doing a run of them and you're doing a lot of these and it's You know 50 years earlier or whatever. Maybe you I mean that's Easy to kind of forget that and would it be safe to say that A lot of the badges no matter what they say might say like Uh new york on it or like made in new york It seems like like i'm looking at on the cooper's vintage drums where there's pictures that say paramount quality drums New york, uh, that seems like it might be a bit of a giveaway as well Oh, yeah, absolutely because you know, um People don't realize too. They made drums for musketeer And that's that's a new york drum. So there was probably some association Early on when musketeer when they were still on long island. Yeah, and I have complete sets, but I can't say complete set because a lot of the older um drums that I have And I feature them in my book They they didn't come with floor times, which is a god awful shame Yeah, they sold a lot of three piece sets, but a lot of companies did rogers Gretch and it's just a shame because Sometimes finding a kent floor time to match your set is one of the hardest things to do in the kent market A lot of people have three piece sets and and they're always looking for that At floor time to go with it and it's Yeah, it's it's a shame that there's so many sets without without floor times I mean, is that because like I think of beginner drums I think of my first drum set, which was a little, you know rinky dink bass drum tom snare, which was nowhere near the quality of a kent, but like Is it just because it's like that's beginner drums is like, you know, these are for starting drummers And there just wouldn't be a floor tom, right? I mean, yeah, I believe you're right because you have to you have to You get the master to snare and when you're just learning how to play You don't have time to be figuring out the floor tom if you're just just sitting on there for the first time So they were starter drum sets. Yeah, I mean, but you can go to the factory and you can order like uh Like walter kent would say um Miss you could have this three piece set for 160 dollars But you could have a complete set For another 42 dollars and that would give you the floor tom. Yeah, but a lot of people didn't do that 42 42 dollars was a lot of money to spend and if you're buying your son a christmas gift Um, the three piece set is good enough. Yeah Yeah, there's there's some interesting, um, you know setups where i'm looking at one, um That is the three piece semi professional Where it doesn't have a floor tom where it's like that sounds about right. It's semi professional to not have it, but then the uh The number 800 would be four piece drum outfit the ultra deluxe Which has a floor tom, but interestingly enough, there's there appears to be one Which is number 500 on this catalog i'm looking at where it's twin tom tom outfit So it's got two toms, but it has no floor tom Which now that's uh, that's just that feels wrong to me Oh, oh without a doubt to play that it would be awkward, you know Or or it could just be a display Showing what you get because then if you look in the back of those catalogs It'll list all the floor toms that you could you could buy but what you know because they had people come in and uh Take photos of these uh These drums and then they would actually Make the catalog yeah out of all the catalogs i have i believe only three of them were were manufactured by kent And the rest were manufactured by other companies really explain that a little more so like the cattle So meaning they just send some photos and then people would because i think drum catalogs Throughout history is a is a whole fascinating topic. Um of things being in a catalog that never got created or things like that So uh explain that a little more so they someone else would just take pictures and then create a catalog for them Yeah, um when you're on nicko's place, uh, william told me that Somebody would contact them that would want to sell their drums So they would come to kent's factory set up a little studio and they would take photos And then they would produce produce the catalog and then naturally they would get the drums from from kent and um And i i guess in a way it's just sort of like You know helping them out. Mm-hmm. It's like outsourcing basically. Yeah, and and that's just the way way they did it uh like one of one of kent's first catalogs That they actually uh produced themselves Is a picture of a young man On the front cover behind a five piece set And um, it was made in 1962 and this young man just happens to be william kent jr Yeah, interesting wow, um All right, so and i'm i'm looking at i'm reading along uh just kind of checking out here. There's some um There's some an interesting blurb. I think it's cool to read kind of just how they were talking in the In that day. Um, it says on the page that describes the outstanding specifications Which i won't get on to all that but it says at the top It says the drums listed in this catalog are made by skilled american craftsmen in a modern american factory And have been for the last 30 years all workmanship is unconditionally guaranteed below or some outstanding features Not found in imported drums So it seems like that's a little bit of like a hey buy these here um You're not going to get this kind of quality on the other import drums That all the other companies were competing with um, so they had kind of an interesting Uh slot in the market where they were the american drums for the You know beginners and the youth where i know ludwig and gratch and everyone else had those Lower end drums as well, but they kind of were smart to say no no no Like this is our avenue, but on that same note. It's Kind of like they i don't want to say they they caved in later But they did go to the japanese outsourcing themselves, right? Was that a financial? Hey, we got to do this We got to get lugs made up and i know there's some snares that were made over there Was that just due to like necessity of uh, the economy or things like that? Remo bell a was at the the nam Uh show and he was talking to william kent And he told bill he goes bill he goes you might be in trouble the japanese just um Constructed like 28 Factories in order to uh manufacture low-end drums And they knew that was going to be a problem because that was going to be taken their their business away And that's what slowly happened Uh, you know all these pearl drums with the different names started coming out in 1960s and and kent was losing business So by the late 60s early 70s um kent started important shells from japan um, and they started slapping their hardware on Putting their badge on it and selling them as made in jup made in the usa drums, but they weren't It's it's very strange because you have you could find kent drums with japanese shells But all kent hardware And you could find Japanese shells With japanese hardware It's like it's like kent didn't have no quality control They just they just threw together drums and they didn't care what was on them or nothing. Yeah, and they just They they they had inventory and they just tried to keep moving it an interesting story that I heard Um, this is in my book A friend of mine named greg zark He said he went into the kent factory in the early 70s Because uh kent factory had a fire in 1971 And greg told me that the machines for manufacturing The shells were damaged, you know water damaged, you know what that does is steal sure So that could be another reason why they couldn't manufacture shells. So they started importing The made in japan shells and then they're using up their hardware And it was right around that time where the kent japanese Drums were born right around that period. Yeah, uh, and it's a shame it is a shame But it's like necessity. I mean it's sort of one of those things where it's like, you know, would you rather The company go out of business because they you know, they had to or they had to pivot They seem like pretty smart businessmen. Um, who Who made a pretty good run of it? Um, were they I I would consider them successful, right? I mean as a family a business, you know, minded family making drums that was the company was around for Uh into the 70s, right Yeah, they closed their doors in 1977. They weren't really manufacturing They they probably were fated fated out even before that but they actually closed the doors in 77 and and I was told by Marcia kent, which is um Walter kent's daughter That there was nobody that Could or would take over the business. They didn't have no No, you know, what do you take it over that that person probably would have been william kent jr But um sadly In 1964 Two weeks after the Beatles came to america He died in a car crash as a passenger at the age of 20. Oh my god. That's terrible Yeah, so so bill kent told me he was devastated for years didn't think he can go on And he bill bill junior probably would have kept the business going and Maybe they would have had new machinery made. Hmm, but in it. So then There was no other no other male in the family Um, he just he just had a couple sisters and some cousins But there was nobody that really could take over the business. So they decided just to close shut the doors And after after they all retired in their Like late 60s and edward went on to travel the world Uh, you know, he ended up um being a pretty rich man by you know playing the stocks Yeah, according to william net is And like I say, I I knew I knew bill um Until he passed away at the age of 99 99 man talk about a long life. That's awesome. Oh, yeah Yeah, and and he went through most of that life without his son, which is another uh, Remarkable thing unbelievable. That's so terrible. He just he just kept going on. Yeah Geez, well, it's kind of one of those what could have been um Type deals but yeah, so that's the end of the company But I do want to back up a little bit and and ask about so you said, you know, obviously when the Beatles You know came and everyone wanted to become a drummer in the 60s So they they ramped up production. I mean, so obviously they became as you mentioned before Which I'd love some more detail on very very very busy. Um, What was their peak like number of employees because it's not that big of a building there at their end so I'm not sure what their peak was but um They they here's the thing they had their regular employees But they also hired A lot of college students and even high school students You know from buff state u b chem or west high school And they would do all this stuff like make tambourines Put the lugs and the drums Like uh, yeah, this I ended up meeting um, just in bancor Who uh, who now lives in california oceanside He was a kent employee from like 1965 to 68 And he told me countless stories about walter How he would walk past the factory And he would be picking the garbage taking drum wrap out and walter would come out and chase him away Finally, yeah, finally when he was 16 he went up to walter and said walter. I got my working papers Can I get a job here? walter looked at him and said all right come on kid get over here And he he worked there and he said it was it was one of the highlights of his life Oh, boy working in that factory and You know, I wish I could have been in that factory when it was around, but I just I was a little bit too young Yeah Speaking of that, I'd like to get away from that for a second. I would like to talk about um How this book actually came about? Yeah Well cue it up with the name of the book and that's a great transition and just like a little info about You know, obviously it's a book on the history of kent But maybe the like the formal title and all that stuff and then carry on well, I wasn't sure what to call the book and uh, it was actually william kent that He said just call it the history of the kent drum company So it was his idea because I didn't know if I should call it history of the ew kent drum company He said just make it the history History of kent drum company 1946 1977 perfect. So what had happened was in the mid 1970s? My brother was a drummer in a band called hot numbers And featured bob farmer on guitar and lead vocals and he had written a song called turning wheels on and on and it was actually featured on um ISL and wphd presents west new york's best new talent And they they had the song and they're getting airplay And it was right around this time when my brother bill Started suffering from headaches It nosebleeds and he just didn't feel right. He knew something was wrong. So he went to the local doctor and The local doctor thought he was just you know doing drugs or something So finally finally billy He took himself to uh roswell park and got tested and he ended up having a Uh a brain tumor in the back of his uh, um brainstem my god and So he went in for for an operation and I remembered that day. Well, I remember seeing my parents My brother david and I were dropped off at at aunt and uncle's house and then billy had the operation and all I remember I was like 15 at the time that my my mother was crying and When they came back and my father just looked real sad. So I knew something was wrong But it wasn't until like two weeks later That my father came up to my bedroom and said Said sit down. I got to tell you something. He was he was billy has Um Brain cancer. He has cancer and he had a tumor, but they couldn't get it off my god So long story short. He billy went went the next couple years. He got really bad Came very close to death And in this time period. I was playing his set of rogers drums And I so I started gaining an interest on the drum set So he starts getting better and And at that time when he was real sick, he gave me as rogers and I knew deep down that um, yeah, because After my father told me Billy's prognosis they gave him six months to live He goes my father goes you can cry. I said I can't because I I don't believe it. Wow So so then billy starts getting better, right? And he's back on his feet because he was confined to bed a wheelchair and he's he's doing much better. Um they're actually showing signs of Not having cancer And I told him I said billy. Um, I need a drum set So that's that's how this all started because he had a friend of his Who just happened to own Like a five piece set of black diamond pearl kents So I purchased a set for a hundred dollars And and that's where I basically taught myself. I would sit sit, uh And listen to records and try to try to play. Wow, that's awesome. And so After that my my brother's cancer free. He gets married and life is good So fast forward to 2006 I'm scrolling ebay Become a recent member and I see this blue sparkle kent snare drum for like 40 bucks. I'm like, man, I I don't even know what I did with my kent drum set. I knew I didn't have them But I don't remember what I did did with them Gave him away traded him in not sure so I win the snare drum and it peaks an interest So then I win something else and this and that and So my wife and I we we go to a fish fry and it was this band playing And They are called the electras and it featured robbie shoyer on drums So in between sets, you know me. I always go up to the drummer And I was talking to him and this and that and and we became friends sort of so I we go to a My daughter's volleyball game at kenmore west And i'm looking behind the bench and I see robbie. I said, what the hell is he doing back there? So after the game, I asked my daughter. I go I go I go mary. I go I go, what's what's robbie? Oh, he's an assistant coach. I said, really? Wow a small world So so I go catch up with him and I'm talking to him and I go, hey robbie You never know what I picked up on ebay. Uh the other day picked up a blue sparkle kent snare he was ah Excellent. He goes my first set of drums were set at black diamond pearl kent's in the 1960s. I said that's funny because I I had the same type of set So now this this actually leads me To writing this book. So this is a very important part. Yeah, he goes to me. He goes He goes, well, I see edward kent You know walking walking the streets, you know going for walks. I said what I go He's still alive. So yeah, he lives over there on woodcrest and I'm like I'll be damned. So I go home. I look in the phone book and there he is Edward w kent e w kent the owner of kent drums and I'm like flabbergasted. Yeah, so I think I probably had a couple beers. I'll be honest. I'm nervous. I go. Okay. I'm calling ed kent I call him he picks up. Hello edward kent. Who's calling please? And very, you know stern very You know, he was a very proper man Always wore suits And I tell him my little story and what I'm what I'm trying to do is write a history book And he invites me over so I take three snare drums And I have him sign The heads on the three drums and we're talking And you know, I asked him what can I call you and get more information He goes, oh, I'm not sure. I'm pretty busy. I said I said you could really help me out here He's all right when you want a car so So this led to Me calling them a couple years later And I said edward, how you doing? No, this is not edward. This is william. Who's calling I said, oh And I told him who I was and what I was doing. He goes he was ed's real sick right now So I I can't help you He goes, maybe maybe in the future. I can maybe help you with your your kent drum book. I said, okay so a couple months go by and I see edward's death notice in the buffalo news And I I I had missed it by a day and I I wasn't able to go to the funeral So I was kind of upset about that. Yeah So I write a condolences letter to uh, william and he called me And left a message on my machine And he said said Dennis william kent He goes, I can help you with your book but not now really busy really busy and I'm thinking wow This is this is insane. So after that, he just he started Sending me letters. Okay. What what do you want to know? to start a kent Where we got our hardwood hardware made and whatnot so we start going back and forth with these letters and And and we talked on the phone quite often and I asked him I said I said Bill did you find that box of the kent badges at edwards house? He goes he goes, where were they? I said, well, he showed me them there in his kitchen a week goes by And I opened the door to get the mail and the box is sitting In my hallway taped up with duct tape And he scribed my name on it had his sticker with his address And I had to painstakingly take this black duct tape off to to not damage the box Yeah, because that's the original box the original box. Wow. So that's one one of the gifts that he That he gave me and So so that's basically if not for william kent and robbie shoyer And my brother bill who got me started on drums This book I wouldn't be talking to you right now man And so that's how I have those three people to think the most man. Well first off the part about your brother And just dealing with that as a kid is just like unbelievable and it's so like um miraculous that he went through that and fully recovered and um I mean my god, that's lucky. You know, I mean that's Unbelievable that you had to go through that as a kid But uh, it kind of like you said it puts you on the right course of playing the drums and and doing all this and And uh, it's kind of like it's meant to be a little bit, you know Like all this these connections and where you because you're you live in buffalo, correct? Yeah, I live in a suburb of tanawanda. Okay. Yeah. Yeah sure My mail and address is ken more so I tell people I live in ken more because that's where kent drums are from Got it. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, man but I mean just your g that the the geography of all of it everything is is very um, I mean, you're the guy The kent factory is is like I don't know like it's like uh 20 blocks away from my house. Wow. I just go down the street cut over To military drive up military and it's right there on the left hand side Did you move into your house because of the proximity to the factory? Do that have anything? No No, I actually moved to tanawanda in 1990. Okay with my wife Karen and we Had Have two daughters Mary and then Carrie. Yep, and we've been here 31 years now And I always told myself. Yeah, this is our starter house and look what happened Which congrats your daughter recently got married. So a big congrats to you know, shout out to her for that. That's a huge Absolutely huge step. Um, I have a son now William. Yep Yeah, that way which is kind of ironic. Yes It's all yeah Yeah, that was a strange thing too. See I see I like talking about Or synchronicities. I mean, yeah, sure and and like I was gonna name Uh my second daughter after me and my brother My my wife thought she was carrying a boy And my boy's name was going to be William Dennis Brown But then when the girl popped out I had to come up with a different name. So I gave her Carrie Lynn Brown Yeah And so then she meets and marries a guy named William. So it's really strange how how things work It is it is very strange. I mean, but but it's It's all meant to be and and um So people can get your book where um, because I highly again people should check it out if they I'm sure it goes much more Detailed. We've just had a great conversation kind of jumping around and doing the history of the company and all this stuff But you know, if you want to read the full on You know, everything that mouse has put together. Where can people find the book? Okay The probably the easiest way is to go on ebay Punching kent drums and keep scrolling Until you see my book. Okay. It lists for 25 Plus a flat rate Of 795 to ship anywhere in the country. Sure um, I also do take paypal so if you go to Vintage kent drums appreciation page You'll see my ad on there and I explain ways of getting a book and one of them you can call mouse directly on my personal cell phone I'll take phone calls I'll your man of the people I had to deliver a book uh out to clearance new york Because the guy wanted to save shipping costs and you just happen. He's from rochester. He just happened to be in the area I said, well, when do you want to meet? I'll bring him out to you. So I drove him out to him Man, he saved I'll do anything. I'll do anything. You know And I'll do anything to satisfy my customers and and you know what I I did this not for monetary gain Um, I paid $5,000 to get this book printed Uh, I I there's 500 books printed But I had to sell 200 of them in order to get my money back Yeah, which I'm I'm very close to to be in there But then if I don't sell let's just say I sell 200 books and I don't sell anything after that I don't make any money. But you know what? I'm okay with that. I didn't do it for the money I did it to give the kent drums in the kent family Um a name name in history. Yeah, which I truly believe they need And should have and and a good name not not all kent drums are crap I wouldn't buy a set of kent drums Because they're not everybody had issues with quality. I don't care you could talk to mark cooper and He he's seen bad quality on rogers and Ludwig drums Yeah, so I did it. Um, because I love kent drums Uh, I I they just fascinate me because You know, anybody could write a book on Ludwig But when I had the opportunity to write the very first ever book on kent I grabbed it Like like William kent said Dennis You came after the information. You got it now do something with it. Yeah, he's a doer. You're a doer, but he's obviously uh You know he instilled that in you a little bit too, but man. He was a uh a mover and a shaker obviously Um, oh, absolutely and and and bark to be perfectly honest with you when I started this project I'm like, what did I get myself into? And then when when william passed away? His granddaughter rachel Actually mentioned me in a death notice. Oh boy. Wow. Um that I was local drummer writing a history book about kent and i'm like I can't back out now now. Can I yeah, that's uh I think to myself multiple times a month maybe multiple multiple times a week. What the hell have I gotten myself into with With doing all this exactly, but it's just yeah It's it's I have so many hours in it and it's just like you have so many hours in your podcast Yeah, you'll never get those hours back, but it's doing something you enjoy Yeah, and it wouldn't it would only be you know Not a waste, but if you didn't finish it then what's the point? So you did finish it and it's out there and for ease of You know for everyone I per usual will put Uh the link to the vintage kent drum's appreciation page In the description and then I'll I'll go ahead and find That link for ebay and then I'll put that in the Description for the podcast as well so people go ahead and click there and uh, I mean, you know a lot of My listeners who I talk to pretty regularly love these books And just kind of put it in their their library of drum books So I think you know and it's it's good to buy it as well because let's let's help mouse get across that You know, let's let's get him profitable here. Um For everyone, but Yeah, all right. So that was awesome. Um, I want to ask you one last thing and then we'll kind of wrap up here But if if you find a vintage kent drum set Do you recommend it seems like something for quality wise a good kind of quick semi affordable way to Kind of button up some quality issues would be getting the bearing edges Recut is that probably a smart thing to do if you find an old kent drum set? Yes, yeah That is a smart thing to do because the drums of the 50s. They did have beautiful edges But as the 60s came and the beetles shook shook the world It kind of like went out the window sort of say I mean they were working seven Or eight days a week like the beel said, yeah, I'm doing my wringostar impersonation. Uh, no, uh Yeah, that's bearing edges and the other thing I do Um, when when I when I look for kent drums, I don't buy any drums With drilled holes in the shells I don't buy any drums that somebody put a Ludwig Throw on the kent snare because that means they had to drill extra holes I try to buy nothing but original Yeah Like when I find a decent 50s Kent snare with calfskin heads I go for it because there's not a lot of them out there. Um You know Bart, I'll be honest with you. I I own over probably closer 200 snare drums And like 20 kent drum sets two of them being made in japan Yeah, because I just wanted to see what how they constructed and all that and it's funny because I did pick up a Now like I say, I'll never mock uh, Japanese quality or nothing. They made some good stuff. I picked up a drum set Put them in my truck the next day. I had a gig I had to you know, uh And I'm like, well, why take these out and put in a kent set. I go, let me just try try this set I just need my hardware my cymbals kick pedal And those the drums sounded awesome. Yeah I was quite surprised, but they do sound good. So I there's my little plug for made in japan drums, you know Yeah, I mean it's kind of all in the same universe a little bit of like affordable nice vintage drums that have their own, um again, they're their own sub-category of the drum world, but um before we move more into that Uh conversation, I do you kind of read my mind. I want to do uh this week's Bonus episode which uh for everyone listening mouse has been kind enough to take a couple extra minutes And I want to ask him about um his personal collection which he just alluded to and and kind of maybe some some horror stories of getting Something that wasn't that he what he thought or um, maybe you know paying You know getting a great deal or the opposite which was you you got bid bid up too high or just anything like that and and some of your favorites so, um For that you can go to drum history podcast dot com and there's a patreon button And you can click and you'll get these bonus episodes for as low as two dollars a month Which there's been a bunch of new people on patreon recently. So I really appreciate that So you can look forward to that and and before we wrap up Um, let's give another quick shout out to our uh, our friend donnie baird For connecting us because that's just awesome. Um, and Per usual with when I use his website uh mark cooper who's Just a great friend of everyone in the drum community. Um, so thanks to those two guys for connecting us because otherwise We wouldn't have uh, we wouldn't have done this Yeah, that's that's great and uh You know a little plug to mark when I first found cooper's vintage drums. I didn't know nothing about vintage drums and he had that little uh Kent history part on on on his site and that was one of my inspirations to do a book also Yeah, I have to say I had to thank mark for that because When I saw that I'm thinking, you know Somebody should make that into a book rather than Needing to go online because I've been in the printing industry for 40 years and I like I like to put a book in my hand. Nobody's got time You can't carry your You can carry your laptop, but it's just it's different more convenient to just have a book in your hand I'd like printed items because I'm a pressman. I'm a printer by heart, you know So no totally. Yeah, thank you mark and the first episode first five episodes I ever recorded of the podcast his website was up And you know, I'm kind of falling along which it's it's neat. I get to do that right now as well. So Well mouse, thank you for being here everyone again can find the description The links in the description of what to look out for for For the book. So on that note, we'll hop over and do the bonus episode. So mouse. Thank you for being here Okay, Bart. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I really appreciate it and uh, you have a pleasant evening If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning