 Hello and welcome to My Career in Data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host, Shannon Kemp, and today we're talking to Kirk Grant from ERM. Visit dataversity.net and expand your knowledge with thousands of articles and blogs written by industry experts, plus free live and on-demand webinars covering the complete data management spectrum. While you're there, subscribe to the weekly newsletter so you'll never miss a beat. Hello and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp and I'm the Chief Digital Officer at Dataversity, and this is My Career in Data, a Dataversity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to talk with people who help make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education, go to dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. Today we are joined by Kirk Grant, a Senior Consultant for Data and Visualization at ERM, and normally this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guest, but in this podcast your bio is what we're here to talk about. Kirk, hello and welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Okay, so you're the Senior Consultant, Data Analytics and Visualization at ERM. So tell me what type of business is ERM? So ERM is one of the world's largest pure play sustainability consultancies. We have about 8,000 plus employees globally across about 40 countries and territories working in roughly I think about 160 offices. So we essentially help clients restare sustainability goals and our clients span across various industries included but not limited to technology, energy and healthcare. Wow, so a very hot topic in today's world and I'm sure with all the laws coming down, it keeps you guys very busy. Yes, it's a hot topic for a lot of people in many different areas. ESG is a big one, technology is a big one as well and data has been a huge one for very, very massive players in the industry. So you're right, it's pretty big. Then tell me what do you do for ERM? What's your typical work week look like? So my work week actually changes, I would say no week is the same for me. So I didn't mention before we have roughly about 160 offices and to work global. So sometimes I work on clients, work with clients that are locally in North America, whether that may be the East Coast, the West Coast, Midwest. Sometimes I work with clients that are in Canada, both on East Coast side and the West Coast side. And sometimes I work with folks that are in Australia and Asia. So Canada just varies depending on the week and the work I'm doing. But for me at ERM, I work with the data analytics and visualization team, which is usually a big mouth hole. So we call it DAV team to kind of short things out a little bit. And I essentially help clients integrate their data analytics into their business practices. That's data collection management and advanced analytics to help them understand key trends and efforts to diagnose the root problem or cause of some issues that they may have and help them move some corrections and derive some effective insights for them. I have an example of how that data is used. An example of how the data is used? Well, we have various types. I didn't mention that we're one of the largest companies in the globe that does sustainability. So we have folks that do like air compliance work. So some of that data that they collect, they'll use that and it will help them with the company's reporting. Or it may be a case where some type of like compliance aspect to it. So we use data in that capacity, so we basically help the client know whether or not they're going to meet their goals for their reporting periods. Very nice. So, Kirk, tell me, is this what you dreamed of? Was this the dream when you were a little, say, you were six years old. Did you say, I'm going to grow up and be a senior consultant in data and visualization? No, no, this is really far away from what I ever thought I was going to do. Well, what was the initial dream? What did you want to be when you grew up? So I would say that for me, probably one of the biggest things that I wanted to do up until I would say four years ago, actually, was a piece of engineering. I grew up in Barbados, it's a small country in the Caribbean. I wanted to be a civil engineer all my life right down to like mapping out like the timelines and the college I want to go to and all these different things. So I had all that kind of down packed and planned. And I did go to college with civil engineering. I did do it. I went to Virginia Tech, a graduate civil engineering degree. But back when I was younger, you know, my dad owns a small construction company. So we spent a lot of time talking about engineering, talking about construction design, helping him move like some of the things he's doing. So I've been around my whole life. And that's kind of like where I was envisioning my path to go. What was funny is all of my friends work in IT, every single one. Every all of my friends from college back home, they all studied IT and I was the only one that did it in January. And we used to have these conversations almost every other week where they would tell me, hey, I think you should you should consider IT. You do really well in it, like just the way like you think about things and analyze stuff and you're able to like break things down into like small, small things or small tasks, you'd be a pretty good person for like this type of industry. Have you ever considered it? And I kept saying, no, I don't want to do that. So 10 years later, you know, flashboards being here in America graduated working in the civil engineering industry. We got back to have these conversations and several years later decided to make a transition to data analytics. And honestly, I'll say I'm very happy with the decision I made. Well, let's talk about that journey a little bit. So you graduated from college. Then where did you go from there? What was the first job out of college? So I graduated from college back in Barbados with my associate's degree, came up to America and I worked for a civil engineering company. I did geophysical studies, so a lot of that for about two years. Then I went to college at Virginia Tech. Same company actually hired me again and I did project management for them. Engineering, project management, did that for about a year and a year and a half, two years. And I transitioned over to ERM where I did environmental consultant work. So a lot of remediation design, a lot of engineering design related to just environmental impacted sites, typically oil and gas clients and things of that nature. Coming over to being in that industry for a few years, I started asking questions about what do we do with our reporting? What do we do with the data? General questions that you typically don't ever ask when you're working in civil engineering is usually very cut and dry. Hey, we have a site. Hey, we have this. Let's work on a design. OK, great, it's been approved. We have the budget. We've done all of our risk assessments, all these things. And now we're getting to the point of permitting and construction and when the construction is done, you're done. Next project. So it was definitely not the most linear transition. I don't think it ever is. No, not from whatever, anyone. So with us exciting, so you basically started getting curious about the data. And how did you take that curiosity and transition it into the job? You decided, yeah. Well, ERM is a pretty large company and we do all types of things. If I sat here and told you everything we did, we'd probably be here for about an hour or so. But I met some folks at ERM that work in data and we started having conversations about what do you do as a person? What is data management? What is data analytics? What is visualization? And it piqued my curiosity because at the time when we were talking about this, I used to, I did coding in college as electives, but I never actually used it. So I still try to keep up with some type of skill just because I felt like, hey, it's something I needed. Maybe I use it, maybe I don't. So we started talking and going down that path of learning about what they did, it definitely piqued my curiosity a lot more. And actually, ever since that started, I've done a lot more in data than I ever anticipated here. And I tell people what I did, they just sit back and say, oh, wow, that's a lot. That's amazing. I love that story. And it is a common thread, I think, that I found with a lot of people who get into data. It's just that curiosity and the discovery of passion for it. So what is it that you find passionate that you, what was the part you found, you were passionate about that, that drove you and just made you just switch that career momentum? To be honest, the reason isn't necessarily as happy as what a lot of people may say. So COVID put a lot of things in perspective for me. It put a lot. A lot of people globally lost their life through COVID. A lot of people have suffered through it and lasting effects and things of that nature. I have family members who lost close friends through COVID and stuff and folks that I knew growing up. So, civil engineering, when you work in that type of space, there's a component of it that's, you have to be on a site speaking of people, being there in person, and usually working with large people in close proximity. And I realize at that point that life isn't as long as I like it to be. So I felt like that was the time where I was, I was going to give this a shot and I was going to be the time. And I made the decision to do it when I had that realization of life. And I was fortunate enough that ERM has so many different things that we do, so many opportunities. And I transitioned from being an engineering consultant into a data analyst and visualization consultant here. I'm a little bit of backstory for me. I joined ERM at the end of 2020, January. So I joined right before COVID. So it was all types of crazy things going on in the world at that point. And it was kind of a whirlwind of a situation just to see how everything was playing out globally and in the country and everywhere else. Because while it was going on, I still have friends in the family that live back home in the Caribbean and other places in the world. And you're just seeing these things just play out. So you're going through all these emotions in your mind, like, hey, this could happen to me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that story. That's definitely a good motivator. Yeah. That's how people, life is short. It is. It is indeed. So tell me then, as you've followed your passion for engineering, finding this new passion with data, what's been your biggest lesson so far in your career? You don't know what you don't know. That's been a common statement in most people that work in data. And the one thing I'll say, the biggest lesson for me is don't let that stop you from pursuing things, especially when you're young and able to try different things. I find that a lot of us, we're faced with a lot of uncertainty in life, still alone that crisis and all types of other issues that folks of our generation have to face. So there's an aspect that people are scared to make change if they want to. So I'd say my biggest lesson, biggest career lesson is I'm here. I've been contemplating this choice for like six years. So I've made the decision four years into it. And I'm not upset with the decision. But even if I was, I at least tried it. And I can say I tried it. So that's what I'll tell people. I love it. So now that you are immersed in data and analytics, what's your definition of data? It's probably the simplest definition that people know. Data is information. It's facts, numbers, context, things that we use to analyze and make decisions. I mean, how I work with it, I work with and I manage high volume data. So that's typically data that's 250,000 records, 500,000 records, a million records, things that you typically collect every minute, every five minutes, 10 minutes, stuff like that. And I help stakeholders both internally and externally make sense of that. Do you find that translation challenging? Like what's been your best advice for helping people to understand the data that they're seeing? I haven't really had much of a problem with that, particularly because people have always said that engineers have one or two personalities. They're either extreme extroverts or they're extreme introverts. I'm an extreme extrovert. So I've always been an over-communicator while I've been selling that. But we'll have a conversation with someone. I'll try to help them understand. I'll teach them some things. I'll ask them some questions and we'll kind of go down this conversation path of, hey, so what did you learn? Did you like this? Did you not? Is it fun for you? Is it not? So I've never really had that case of that being a pain point for me quite yet. Because most stakeholders I've interacted with, they're aware of what they have. They just may not be aware of the depth of it. That's usually a pretty good explanation or a pretty good target. Oh, that makes sense. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry-leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launchpad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DVTOX for 20% off your purchase. So working in a field that deals with so much data, do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years? And why? Yeah, I do, actually. You know, three years ago I would have said I don't know because I don't know anything about data management. But I'll say this. Yes, even more now than ever, especially with AI and how AI has been on the forefront of everyone's mind, businesses, how they use it, how they implement it, how they collect data. Everyone's trying to make sense of things. All businesses are looking at how they're collecting data. You're getting that to be the biggest thing that everyone is thinking about at this point. And with that, it comes down to data management. How do you manage that? What do you do with it? Data security, government's quality of it. Which all of that I think is extremely understaffed for the vast majority of it. Because you now have all these businesses that are saying, hey, we have all this data, what do we do with it? But the employee aspect is kind of lagging behind that driving force. And with all the legislation that's coming out and businesses that are supposed to be using their data and storing it and whatnot, I don't really see this changing for the next 5, 10, possibly 15 years. I don't. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, so many people are worried about AI replacing jobs, but from the data aspect, data management aspect, there's so much work that needs to go into standing that up and maintaining it. Yes. Yeah. That's a big thing. But again, that comes down to the same conversation of trying to make sense of it. Most people are still in that process of trying to make sense into it. I actually, I think I saw an article a while ago that I don't remember if we published it, but I think it's about 30% of businesses have actually integrated AI into their operations, which is astonishing because there's still 70% that hasn't. And we're at this point where you look at the jobs and you see that all these jobs are coming up that aren't filled. So when you imagine doubling that number, it's a 60% of business have adopted it. You're basically doubling, possibly tripling the amount of jobs in this particular industry, which comes down to data management and all these other aspects. That's a really good point that you bring up too or before and saying that a lot of companies that underfunded the staff to manage this and to set these things up. Yeah. Yeah. And we get a lot of questions from people saying, how do I convince our executives that this is so important and we need to pay attention to the governance of the data and the management of the data. Have a data model. That's always a fun conversation because some folks understand the importance of it. Some folks, they understand it, but it's usually on the back end of their mind because it's something that really drives the funding and whatnot is usually the data itself, not necessarily how you govern it. So I think it's a challenge that most businesses are facing from what I can tell, just reading news and talking to people and just keeping up with what's going on with just world things and companies and whatnot. Yeah. And do you want to add and ask, getting into data management so recently and learning about it, how did you ramp up into data management and how did you set yourself up for success in your new role? I'm a very goal-oriented person. I'm an extreme goal-oriented person. And I kind of touched on that like earlier when I said my past career plans for engineering in terms of years in Thailand and whatnot. So for me, coming from an engineering background, especially civil engineering, you have to have a good foundation to build anything. If you don't have a good foundation, it's not going to work. It's not going to stay up. And we see that time and time again. We're building this collapse. We're just collapsed. To me, this field is no different. Jumping into a place and not knowing anything or not at least being curious to try to learn something. Even if what you learn isn't even relative. Before I even got started, I took a couple of coding classes, something like Python. I took a few classes in cybersecurity and a few things in project management and stuff like that for Agile. Just enough to at least give me a starting point. Whether I use all of it or not, at the time when I was doing it, it didn't really matter to me. What mattered to me is that I was immersing myself into the space. And I don't work in cybersecurity, as you know, but still having a little bit of knowledgeable cybersecurity clearly is playing some type of like benefits in this conversation and other aspects. Because you can't have data method about what you're targeting in the security. I didn't know that at the time. But here we are. Same thing with some coding stuff. I didn't know I was going to be doing it at the time, and here I am. But I'd say for folks that are interested in getting into it, there is an endless amount of information. It's out here for people to get started. Things are on YouTube. There's LinkedIn Learning, DemiCourses, there are podcasts, there are folks on LinkedIn that are very, very proactive with talking to people and trying to help people navigate the stuff through like weekly newsletters and all types of things that honestly, if you're interested in starting into this space, it's a lot easier than if you were considering it like 10 years ago. Comparisons. Yeah, I would disagree with that. And I've seen this often in this podcast and in many different areas that this community is so generous with their time and really just loves to network and talk about data. So don't be afraid to ask, right? So like you say, LinkedIn is a great resource for that. Yep, it is. I can't tell you how many conversations I've seen on LinkedIn or just contributed to and I walked away saying, oh, wow, I never knew that was a thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah, so cool. Well, Kirk, this has been amazing. I love this journey that you've had. It's a very personal journey and thank you for sharing it with us today. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate the time, I appreciate the opportunity to speak and I hope that someone finds it useful. And if there's anything, if anybody wants to learn about ERM and what the company does, how would they look that up? So you have a couple of different options. To me, the quickest way is to just go to www.erm.com, which is the company's portals website. You can find pretty much anything there. A lot of the information we talked about today, you can find there a lot, you can find a lot more information on what we'll be doing. We have LinkedIn presence, a pretty hefty LinkedIn presence as well. We do letters and reports pretty frequently. That in itself is a completely different topic that will take up a lot of time. But my point is, the web page is a very good place to get started. If anyone wants to find out anything more, but what we do sustainability-wise, they can always reach out to me at LinkedIn. My name is Kurt Grant, K-I-R-K-G-E-R-A-N-T. It's pretty easy to find. And if I don't know what you're looking for, I can probably find something that does. But that's pretty much it. Well, I love it. Thank you so much. And we'll make sure to post those links to the website, to the podcast website as well. So thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. So really appreciate it. And just for all of our listeners out there, if you'd like to keep up to date in the latest in podcast and the latest in data management education, you can go to dataversity.net or slash subscribe. Until next time, stay curious, everyone.