 work to deal with the with the sound but I appreciate having a sound for their house and hope that helps people here. I'll review briefly the minutes or the meeting logistics. Anyone who's joining us remotely please change your name display to your full first and last name on your on the screen so we'll know who's talking to us we have set up the the zoom connections so that anyone who wishes to address the council everyone is participating is muted and anyone who wants to address the council will have to get permission to unmute themselves and that will hopefully avoid the problems we had last time we asked you to keep any comments or questions you have to under three minutes and germane to the topic at hand and we will start by approving the agenda is there any member of the council has any concerns about the agenda anything that we need to add rearrange or change okay the agenda is approved we now move to general business and appearances this is an opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on any item that is any topic that's not on the agenda and as I noted earlier we would ask you to keep your comments to two minutes and councillor Bate will assist us in the three minutes and what councillor Bate will assist us in the timekeeping is there anyone here in the room who'd like to address the council okay I don't see anybody anybody participating remotely who's looking to address the council I'm not seeing any electronic hands and I'm not seeing anyone anyone physically raising their hands so we can move to the next item on the agenda which is the consent agenda the chair with it entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda I'll move to approve any discussion okay all those in favor signify by saying aye any opposed okay next we have a series of appointments to various commissions starting with the application from the appointment to the planning commission and if anyone who is present remotely for any of the appointments we'd like to give you a chance to address the council step right up the reappointment until this afternoon so I'm not sure if you have that application in front of you let me just say that I've been on the commission for five years I've really enjoyed the experience and would like to continue the planning commission has been involved as you probably know in the variety of activities over the last few years including trying to get the city plan over the finish line I would I think are we better now okay fair enough I was just gonna say you know we're involved in trying to get the city plan over the finish line I'd like to be involved in that process at the very least and obviously we have a number of important zoning discussions going forward particularly in the wake of the latest flooding and also trying to tackle the city's housing issues and I'd like to be reappointed and I thank you for your time thank you so Bill I'm seeing I'm not only seeing one vacancy excellent hello hello so my name is Carlton Anderson I've lived in Washington County for 22 years moving back after being truck driver for seven years but I've worked in software northern power systems for Montsaint employee credit union I've been here and I didn't think that I want a community I wanted to come back I have no wife and no kids I've never been married I'll be 50 next year and I didn't want I want a community again after being on the road for 700 thousand miles but I didn't I didn't realize that the flood would be the vessel to that and I accept that and so I'd just like to put my name in the pot because I think I have some innovative ideas and I'd like to be a part of the zoning and you know watch Clay Brook get built and Pizzagale build it and act 250 become something so I'm very interested in the process civilly so thank you very much again Carlton Anderson okay thank you is anyone have any questions okay thanks for coming okay thank you do we have a motion bill were you to say something okay oh Kirby Keaton I'm okay Kirby Keaton I'll recognize you and thanks so much I just wanted to also mention so we have three vacancies on planning commission I'm Kirby Keaton I'm the chair of the modular planning Commission right now we have three vacancies and I'm not sure if you have all the up-to-date applications but we do have Ariane Kism seeking reappointment and she put in an application so I just want to vouch for her as a third person you know we three open seats some of you may know John Adams by the way he's he's not currently seeking reappointments so that does leave one vacancy without you know returning commissioner they can say John Adams is another that's two not three what might you show that three terms are ending 10 13 23 you can see there's not our form so there's four is Kism's terms are all expiring on October of 23 and the others are so Mike yeah can you shed some light on this in that chart and I with the things I had meant to get back to Mary to clarify that her list was outdated I believe Brian is Brian Mills on that list so he's he is on there and Gabe so the other person is Maria yeah she's right here and she is on there too so there's seven right there's four for 24 and three for 23 three for 23 and you said there's a vacancy there's Mr. Adams is apparently not yes oh okay so he's the only one not on that list no industry he understands applying for that no that was what I was gonna say there are only three I wanted to be clear there are only three vacancies there are not four vacancies there only three vacancies see with no name that's wrong that's wrong thank you three vacancies and we have three applicants okay and it is confusing because technically those vacancies don't become vacancies until Friday but right I think technically if we were to look at the charter it's at the end of the month of September we've tried to get rid of the date piece so that way it wouldn't happen so technically it was I believe the last day of September I think we'd have to look at the charter because that was where we haven't sat in if the charter says originally we had them all over the map and a few years ago we went and set them all up so all the planning commission gets reappointed in September or October but it's not by day it's the seat ends at I believe September 30th okay Brian is also on here for 1116 he should not even though he started 11 he should end at the right time he should end at the right time because we we assigned them to seats that end at a certain time yep it's wrong on the chart so yeah I'll go up at Mary to get that corrected so now we have three vacancies the ones now held by Aaron Kosicki John Adams and Ariane Kasam and John Adams is not seeking to be appointed and so the three applicants we have are Aaron Ariane and Carlton correct okay I'll take before you vote a quick big thank you to John Adams he is the probably the longest-serving planning commissioner he's getting off now he's been on since I want to say 2014 or 15 so he's been on for probably nine years now and I wanted to thank him for a lot of years he did all a lot of the heavy work when we did the zoning update and a lot of the work now with the city plan update so I do want to thank him for his service that was a lot a lot of hard work twice a month for that many number of years so okay thanks so now would somebody like to make a motion for yeah you can make a motion for all three if you want I don't have all their names down so I'd like to move that we reappoint Aaron Kosicki and Ariane Kasam to the Planning Commission and as a new Commission member Carlton Anderson okay discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye any opposed okay thank you all for for volunteering to do this next up an appointment to the Public Art Commission and on this one we only have one well I'm not sure let's see if that's what it looks like and Judith Ehrlich are you on online okay apparently not it's only like to move her appointment Judas Ehrlich to the Public Arts Commission and your discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye any opposed okay appointment to the Conservation Commission and we have Madeline Cotter who has applied and that looks like that's the only vacancy Madeline Cotter oh Madeline Cotter you're here so just a second it will get you unmuted and now you and now I think you have to unmute yourself there you go yeah I have been in Vermont for about 12 years now and moved to Montpelier last year and went to school for environmental studies and I'm really interested in kind of giving back to the community and I thought a good way to get involved will be to join a city commission so through my name in and we'll see where you guys take it but looking forward to the opportunity thank you great thank you I will move to accept Madeline Connors application any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye anyone opposed okay congratulations and thank you Madeline and next up we have design review and I was a little confused this is the design review committee not the development review board right okay and we have Ben Cheney and Ben are you here yeah I'm here thanks for coming want to just introduce yourself sure I've been a Montpelier resident most of my life I've been on design review board I don't know how long for maybe 10 years maybe not that many I don't know something I enjoy doing it's a way that I can contribute to my community that I care about I've I'm in the world of design and construction and understand the complexities between trying to do something well and do something affordably and matters to me what how things get built in Montpelier thank you anyone have any questions for Ben before we move to a vote is there a motion to point go ahead Ben are you applying for reappointment to a three-year term yes okay thank you I move to reappoint Ben Cheney to a three-year term second any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye and any opposed all right congratulations and thank you Ben and last but not least I think last I didn't I didn't hear any of that but maybe I don't need to you're in you're you're reappointed thanks for doing this oh so folks apparently we've got audio problem I did okay you can hear us now right yes great thank you so Ben you're you're appointed thanks for doing this great and last up we have an application of Tim favorite to be reappointed to the Energy Advisory Commission and Tim are you here looks like not do we have a motion I'll move to reappoint Tim favorite to the Energy Committee thank you is there a second second any discussion all in favor signify by saying aye anyone opposed okay thank you Tim for continuing to serve in this I really appreciate everyone who stepped forward to devote your time your energy and your thoughts to to these commissions I have a question about the chart we received it lists Dan Jones as expired in 2022 but it lists him like he's still on you follow up on that well good question thanks Bill all right now we're to item number 11 the small business administration presentation and let's see yeah there she is okay hi my name is Monica Miles I'm a public affairs specialist with the US Small Business Administration and the SBA just wants to make sure that the homeowners renters businesses and nonprofit organizations in Montpelier are aware that they can apply for a low interest rate disaster loan with the US Small Business Administration if they're home or their business or their nonprofit organization was adversely affected by the floods that occurred back in the month of July of this year initially the most recently rather the deadline to apply was actually tomorrow but that has been extended until October 31st and that's with respect to property damage loans a homeowner or person who's renting their home in Washington County and the other counties that were declared a disaster as a result of the floods and storms in July can apply for a property loan with respect to a homeowner if the physical if the real estate was actually damaged they can apply for a loan up to $200,000 with respect to a homeowner and a person who's renting their home they can apply for a loan up to $40,000 the interest rate for a homeowner or a renter is too is it as low as 2.5% the loan terms are usually 30 years and in addition with respect to all applicants homeowners renters businesses and nonprofit organizations there's no payment due for the first year of the loan and there's no interest that accrues for full year of the of the loan and yet if there was anyone who was able to pay the loan off at the just prior to the end of one year of having received the funds they would be able to have use of the funds without incurring any interest whatsoever with respect to a business the end with respect to a nonprofit organization the maximum loan amount is for is $2 million and that's for all of the loans that they could potentially take out a home a business or a nonprofit can seek a loan for their real estate that was damaged as well as the business personal property such as the equipment to supplies vehicles things of that nature in addition a homeowner in a business can apply for mitigation loan with respect to the homeowner they could apply for a mitigation project such as installing a sump pump a fringe drain retaining walls whatever they feel that their home may benefit from in the event of another disaster in the future they could apply for that and that would be in addition to any other loan that they received and it could be up to 20% of the verified property damaged losses for the business business that would want to apply for mitigation loan it would all be incorporated in the maximum amount of $2 million for business the loan is as low as 4% and for nonprofit organization the loan amount is as low as 2.375% the deadline for business or nonprofit applying for a loan which is called an economic injury disaster loan does not expire until April 15th 2024 the economic injury loan is when a business or nonprofit believes that as a result of the disaster the business revenue has decreased and it's decreased to the point where they cannot meet all of their necessary obligations such as rent payments and and paying their staff think things of that nature and that they need a loan in order to be able to remain in compliant with their obligations and to remain in business because that type of damage sometimes does not manifest itself for a period of some months the law does have a longer period for application and that's again doesn't expire until April 15th 2024 so the if anybody wants to apply for a loan they can go to one of the centers that are currently opening are still open some of them are closing very soon in Washington County there is waterbury armory which currently on the schedule that I have the schedule to close on October 14th and then elsewhere in the state there's one a little further away Ludlow Community Center that's located in Windsor County that one at this point is not scheduled to close until October 21st in addition applicants can apply online for a loan at sba.gov forward slash disaster they can also call the SBA for assistance and they can also call the SBA to get an updated list in terms of where they might be able to apply and that is 1-800-659-2955 and if the person is hearing impaired they can call 711 for assistance and once a person applies for a loan the agency may ask for them to submit some additional documentation they should always be very careful to go ahead and do that and to hopefully do that in the time period that the agency requests the SBA typically is able to give a person their decision with respect to the loan determination within two to three weeks of all of their documentation and paperwork being submitted and then once the person has the opportunity to review the loan documents and to if they decide to go forward with the loan usually the agency releases the first set of funds within five business days want to say also that if an app potential applicant is waiting to hear from their insurance company before they decide whether or not to apply for the loan they don't have to do that there's no application fee if they get approved for a loan and they decide later on that they do not want to accept the loan they do not have to accept the loan so there's no kind of requirement that if somebody applies they have to go forward within it with the loan they're not entering into a contract with the SBA at that point at all so they don't have to do that and that's pretty much it the program is set up to try to of course help people who need additional funds beyond their insurance and beyond whatever FEMA may be able to provide them with and and to of course try to keep businesses in business FEMA has indicated that in a study it was determined that about 40% of businesses that have been affected by a disaster do not reopen after the disaster and the SBA is trying to avoid that from happening. Thanks very much for this. I have a lot of people in in Montpelier the Montpelier area already applied? Yes, Montpelier is one of the counties with the more applicants and in the whole statewide as a result of the July floods 23 million dollars in disaster loans have been approved by the SBA so far. Thanks. Anyone have any other questions? Carrie. Thank you so much for this. I just wanted to share a little bit about my personal experience and my family's experience and maybe you can answer a couple questions or maybe I can just let other people know what kind of what it's been like. So our house was affected by the floods and we put in a FEMA application and we were told that we needed to apply for an SBA loan. So we did that and we were told we were approved for an SBA loan. This was weeks and this was months ago but we were waiting to hear from our insurance company so we were fortunate that we had flood insurance but it took two months to get information from our flood insurance company and when SBA found out how much we were getting from insurance the loan amount changed and we are now in the process of trying to readjust things because insurance is not enough to cover our expenses. So now we're trying to adjust things with the SBA and just the other day I was on the phone with you all and was told it was going to be six to eight weeks to process our adjusted application. So and I'm also it's news to me that there's money for mitigation and I think that would be of great interest to people in Montpelier because like many people in Montpelier we are faced with having to replace our furnace and our hot water heater and our electrical panel but we're not able to replace them where they were in the basement. We have to move them upstairs and who have loved the flood level which is which our insurance company doesn't consider covered our insurance company calls that mitigation and so so that's helpful to know. So I just want to flag that for other people in Montpelier who may be facing that and are not able to cover that FEMA also doesn't cover from what I've heard. We're not getting any FEMA money so I'm not really sure about that. I'm interested in the interplay between FEMA and SBA because that's been kind of confusing to me in this whole process but I and I'm also wondering about the interest rates that you talked about that interest rates for homeowners are 2 and a half percent which is not the interest rate that we have been offered and with my family. So I'm wondering about that. I'm also wondering if you know about I'm sorry I'm throwing a lot of questions at you all at once but I'm wondering about the Barry the Barry disaster recovery center. I'm wondering if you know when that is scheduled to close or if that has already closed and I don't know about the paperwork I have it closed as of today. Okay. But I don't know since the deadline has been extended I don't know if FEMA is going to be you know extending any of these centers or reopening anything but on the paperwork I have it was closed as up as the close of business today. Thank you. Okay did I cut you off I'm sorry. No that was that was everything that I had. Okay. Well one thing usually I do say this when I'm given this presentation but with respect to the interest rate sometimes and I don't know what your situation is but sometimes when a person has excellent credit and can get loans in the open market the interest rate can go up as much as double. So your interest rate is higher? Right because you know the law was yeah the law was to help people who cannot you know primarily who cannot get loans on the open market so that the small business administration was kind of like the last resort for them because otherwise they would not be able to get a loan anywhere else. So for homeowners, renters, businesses and nonprofits who you know are in a better situation depending you know depending upon the type of loan it can be double. Now for the economic injury disaster loan for the businesses and the nonprofits it set that lower their lower rate. You had another you had another question that you raised right Carrie? Well I don't know if you can speak to this but the yeah the interaction between FEMA and the SBA was quite confusing for me as someone especially in those early days when we're not sure what we're going to get from our insurance company and it took months to resolve things with our insurance company and but you may I don't know if you can speak to that. Well I know that SBA always tells people to apply for with FEMA first and then FEMA often tells people to go to SBA as well. Now a lot of people you know may be declined by FEMA you know for various reasons it might be the type of damage they have you know or something of that nature and then the person definitely needs to go to SBA and then apply if FEMA tells them to do so. Now sometimes when people come to SBA they don't qualify for a loan for whatever reason. There might be some ways for them to correct that situation so they they ultimately do qualify for the loan but in any event when the person doesn't or the applicant doesn't qualify for the loan with the SBA then the SBA usually sends them back to FEMA and then sometimes that same person will end up being able to get some type of relief from FEMA. So I don't know if and then the computer systems are some kind of way I don't know how in some type of at some point there's some kind of way that each computer system can verify that somebody has been referred to SBA and then also whether or not they were approved for the loan with SBA so that FEMA can make a decision as to whether or not they qualify for anything else or if they can you know give them some aid or refer them to any particular resource. I'm not sure if there was anything more that you experience with that or not. No that's all thank you very much. I appreciate you're taking the time to talk about this. But those were all good key issues that people will sometimes bring up about that whole process. Well it does seem like a long wait for some of this action on some of this doesn't it? And here we are. It's where the middle of snow. It's been a long time to me. I'll double check into that and you know get back in touch with you. Because someone who needs a furnace they don't want need to be waiting another six weeks from mid October. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay well thanks very much for coming and I'm sure you deal with the with people all the time who are extremely frustrated and I think it's the nature of the situations that you're dealing with. Right it's fine. We understand that people are under a lot of you know stress and it's no problem whatsoever. Okay well thanks all right thank you all take care. You too by now. Thanks. All right next up we have item 12 housing committee membership compensation composition policy. Sorry to hear that you're dealing with all of that. It'll be okay it's just very serious. And don't mind me reading from this then I don't stumble across my words as much. My name is Jessica Oprowski. As a member of the city housing committee and a renter in the city for seven years I'm here to share two motions that came before the housing committee on January 3rd of this year and we're voted on and approved. These are one that a minimum of two renters should be members of the housing committee at all times. Two that in reviewing applications for membership the city council should aspire to create a balance of renters versus homeowners that reflects the city's current makeup. Most recently we understand that approximately 40% of the city rents therefore 40% of the committee should be ideally made up of renters. I'm here on behalf of the housing committee to formally ask the city council to adopt these measures as part of the official housing committee selection criteria. The first being a minimum requirement going forward the second being a goal. This is especially important to consider how now because we have an open seat and currently only one renter on our committee which is me. Additionally members of the committee have expressed interest in reviewing future applications for memberships and making recommendations to the city council city council. Renters are a huge part of our community. We work here shop here eat here and a lot of us send our kids to school here. We're key members of the community even if we are not homeowners we contribute in many ways to keep the community alive. This is why I ask you to show renters that we do matter and that you see us you all see us as important community members as well as keeping space in the housing committee to always have at least two of our nine seats filled by renters. This will keep this will help represent the voices of many renters in the community so we can all work together and try to better the current housing crisis. Thank you. Don't go away. There may be questions. Thanks Jessica to see you after not being on the committee for a while. Yes. Donna. Are there any suggestions that indeed we make this change and we get no renters or to fill them or not enough renters? I mean to me a renter and homeowner I'm sort of colorblind it's like it doesn't matter right they apply but if we're not getting applications is there a fallback? Or a way to reach renters specifically. Well I think that ideally that's what I would love to see is that a way that we can encourage renters to put in applications. I think that a lot of renters probably assume that maybe our voice isn't heard as much or it doesn't matter as much so if there's a way that we can as a city kind of encourage renters to apply. But I guess that if we don't get renters that apply even after trying to push for that then we'll just have to fill the seat with somebody that wants to apply. Can we word it that way? Or or there could be a vacant a vacant tenant slot say say you're one your tenant one tenant who's on the committee but if a if a slot opens up that could only be filled by another tenant then it could be that slot just remains open until we have until we get a tenant to to apply. Well I look to Josh but I'm assuming that maybe at the committee we would probably have to talk about that to see if we feel comfortable with like one seat being open. Yeah I mean I think going back to what Jessica said I think doing a better job of trying to reach renters to fill the vacancy I think is just a priority. And I don't know I think leaving a seat vacant for a renter can happen. There is nine on the committee so having eight on the committee doesn't affect the quorum as much as maybe a or that has five. So my opinion would be that would be okay. I think it's I think it is important and the housing committee did indicate a real strong desire to have a composition that that best matches what our community is. So I support having at least two renters on the committee. Thanks Gary. Yeah as one of the council members is part of this committee I'm very much in support of this. I think you know the the proportion of 40 to 60 renters to homeowners is really really striking and really tells us that this is a city that where it's not just a minority it's not just a small number of people who are renting this is a really significant number of people it's probably going to go up or I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up in the future. And two out of seven two is kind of the two isn't even really enough actually for sort of a critical mass like if you're if you're an underrepresented group you need three it is kind of the general rule of thumb right to feel like you're not like you feel like you're the only one right now and if there's one more then it's like well there's two of you that's better than just one but three really makes you feel like okay we're here and three still doesn't get us to 40 percent. So so I think two is a bare minimum I think that's good and with a goal of 40 percent and if we have an opening we have an opening we have a vacancy I mean committees have vacancies all the time and if we say that we have a requirement of at least two renters then that is part of what goes out as we're trying to recruit members and so I think it will be helpful and I think a lot of renters will probably be encouraged to hear that and hopefully be encouraged to apply. You could still have more because there's nothing in the other slots to say you can't be I mean I never thought of it as a division but so okay good. But in theory if things get good and you have more renters than property owners I suppose in the future you could also look at rebalancing based on the aspirational goal absolutely yeah but do we have any other committees where there's like a specified I don't know why we would have a divided by renters at home orders but we certainly have plenty of committees where we say you know we'd like one person representing you know the business community one person representing this and you know that's it's usually more than ad hoc committees and standing committees but there's oftentimes we've said we'd like a seat or even informally choosing people saying well we'd like you really make sure this voice is heard and so it's not unheard of and I think you know again it's a policy question there's no legal reason why you couldn't and it's really up to the council to say this is how we want our committee composed and you know I mean you could similarly you could say I'm not recommending this by the same idea you could say we also want at least one landlord you know one person who read so you know so you can choose how you want these committees they're here to advise the council about housing policy so the makeup is who you choose who and how you choose to do it I also like this idea as a practical matter how would you make the transition you have nine members is it a full committee now no we have one seat that's over one seat so you could you could put that up for a renter and then as the next person um term expires you would you would go to the proportionality three three and six renters owners is that think that you think it would work yeah yeah it's well done is you'll always have two so right now there's one you have a vacancy so we would make an act you know it would you either point a renter or you don't want to point anybody in the future say you had two we'd say that the council should consider with a goal of trying to get to 40 percent and then see who applies and you know so you have a couple good you know tie goes to the renter until you get 40 percent and then you you decide who has you know but I think that would be it wasn't a hard you know quota it's a this is the goal you're trying to get to but obviously the point council member Brown makes is well taken that you want a critical mass of that voice personally I think that's a great idea I think you know one of the things that we have been striving for in the last several years is to open up city government and all of our commissions and committees to to more more diversity and this proposal has a tendency of maybe getting more younger people involved more people who might not have been living in in the town for for as long as people who are homeowners so I think it's great it's done so for now the recommendation is two and that we can word our ad when we get another opening to encourage both homeowners and tenants so people put the words out there that people can see it that okay I'd make a motion to support that is there a second or second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye anyone opposed okay thanks thank you thanks for serving and being here it's amazing things you don't think about next up we have item 13 the public hearing on the proposed zoning zoning ordinance and I will start by opening the public hearing Mike you're up all right so I am Mike Miller I'm the director of planning and community development for the city and I presented to you at the last meeting a quick amendment to kind of reflect some of the changes to allow country club road to be developed as emergency housing and the proposal hasn't changed with one exception I had somebody who reviewed it and noticed that one of my references was incorrect on 3125 point b which says the provisions of this subsection applied to development of emergency housing as defined in section 5201 and it should say 5101 so other than that this is the same presentation you received two weeks ago no other changes have been made the quick summary for anyone who is not at that hearing was that we already had in our zoning a use called temporary housing and it covered both emergency housing and emergency shelters and there's a very significant difference between the two one being that emergency housing is permanent housing you're there for more than 30 days and you have tenancy you have certain rights that come with that whereas an emergency shelter is someplace where you stay less than 30 days and you don't end up with tenancy and a and having those rights that go along with it so usually emergency shelters fall into the same category as hotels and motels and those types of things because those are also transient what we call transient housing you're not a permanent resident as opposed to emergency housing which is generally falls under permanent housing so we split that into two groups and we made some special provisions we created a new section 3125 which describes emergency housing provisions and so I guess at this point I will leave it open for questions or any comments from from folks okay thanks any comments from or questions from members of the council and are there any comments for members of the public Joe Castellano I see you were you're here tonight and last time I cut you off because we're past that agenda item do you want to be heard now actually I'm okay okay any other members of the public I'm not seeing any hands come up okay I think we can close the public hearing I guess Mr. Mayor I'll make one more quick clarification just so everyone is clear these this is an emergency amendment it's an emergency hearing so it falls under interim bylaws and therefore these bylaws will only be in effect for a period of two years we will include this in a zoning update that's coming up that'll make it permanent but at this point in time this is an interim change that will be effective for only two years but we expect that this will also come back to you probably in January to be formally adopted as a permanent change to the zoning but I wanted to make sure it was clear to everyone this is an interim change that will result from this process tonight yeah because there's probably some other updates you're gonna want to do in January right yes okay um now this is one of two uh one public hearing number one we're planning on only doing one because this is a emergency because this is an interim change it only requires one okay okay any comments or questions from members of the council is there a motion i'll make a motion that we adopt the interim emergency housing and shelter language is there a second oh second okay we've got a motion in a second any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye anyone opposed all right we have passed the interim zoning provision thanks by thank you next up we have confluence park and this is this is a relook of uh discussion we have our last meeting all right thank you everyone thanks for coming thank you for having us here today um my name is kasha ranjo i'm one of the co-directors of vermont river conservancy and i'm roy ship our mom player resident and a water resource engineer with the company called slr our hope for today is to review some of the project history for confluence river park share some of the latest designs share budgeting and fund fundraising efforts and our hope is to reaffirm your support to move forward with the project this project has been in every master plan every downtown plan every river management plan for about 30 years now it is now it's pretty exciting to see it on the brink of moving forward from plans to giving Montpelier a vibrant downtown riverfront and the heart of downtown a huge asset to residents an opportunity to draw visitors into our communities and the key part of a renewed vibrant thriving downtown core this build on what other communities have achieved all over the country right here not too far from us in franklin new Hampshire um it was one of it's one of the lowest income communities in new hampshire and a dying post industrial downtown they had the vision to convert this area that was filled with homeless encampments and a derelict part of town into a riverfront access for the community it's now an economic driver directly leading to new businesses jobs and attracting for people to live in business live and visit the community marty who has been involved with the project is on the zoom call tonight and available to answer questions and share his experience if you're interested also not too far from us the burlington waterfront which generates tens of thousands of dollars every day for their downtown businesses because the river access is downtown and the heart of the community it's the same in denver mazula montana reno nevada these are communities that have already taken the leap and um decided that their investment now seems like a bargain what they put in years ago because the businesses and the residents cannot imagine their community without these places and cannot imagine the places they live without downtown at riversfront access and this is the opportunity that we have now in montpelier so what's this look like in montpelier and how did we get here like i said earlier it's been in community plans for 30 years the latest iteration of this park was born alongside one taylor street which was addressing housing and transportation and the idea was to address housing and transportation and parks in the same space in the same time that's an equity element that allies with the montpelier parks commission's commission's vision that everyone in this community live within a 10 minute walk of open space especially our lowest income residents like at one taylor and french block it also um grows up with conversations around dam removal which is now in early stages of feed visibility studies to look into the removal of four dams in an upstream of montpelier two of those dams are right at confluence park this would reduce flood risk and downtown montpelier reconnect the river and also connect the community with its river and create the opportunity to float from bar hill all the way into downtown connecting our businesses by the river our organization at vermont river conservancy we got involved years ago we spent two years talking with the community not about any particular project we said what do you want to see here in town what do you want to see what does montpelier need and the community throughout dozens and dozens of conversations the project that rose to the top as a top community priority was confluence park that's why vermont river conservancy got involved in this decades long vision was because this community and these residents asked us to be part of this and make the 30-year vision a reality and now we have the chance to follow through we had as an organization dozens and dozens of meetings with residents city council city staff community leaders and what we heard is that people want access to the river for all that including ADA access proximity to the low-income housing space for outdoor events performance and art a spot to simply eat lunch by the river meet with colleagues fish paddle tube and a space that's flood resilient infrastructure that can bounce back after the floods like we just had to orient you to the space go to the next one I will turn things over to Roy to orient you to the space I'm sure the designs okay thanks kasha so just want to get oriented here's the if you can see the screen the bike path here's the edge of the one Taylor building and Montpelier the the area set aside for the park is roughly a quarter acre that sits between the trestle bridge the bike path and the and the confluence of the rivers and here's the concept design that emerged from all those public meetings and the vision and it consists primarily of an ADA accessible pathway from the bike path to the river meeting certain grades and the idea is to be able to access with a whole range of mobility a fishing platform a paddling access for smaller boats as well as a a larger area downriver on the main Steminowski a paddling area where many boats could be stockpiled for events and trips and whatnot ox also on the upper flat area towards one Taylor there's actually an open space with seating and shelter and we've talked with parks there's actually a pavilion or gazebo for some education and programming that was desired so those are kind of the main the main elements and then primarily there are you can see there are access points all along the face of the park into the river both the north branch as well as the main stem and there's seating opportunities that are shown in orange that was something that the community originally wanted was a place to sit by the river to go grab lunch come down to the river and enjoy this amazing setting and it's quite amazing when you get down in there it's really it feels like a pretty wild setting in the heart of our downtown so again bringing people to the river is really the heart of this here's a three-dimensional model that reflects the current design this is a an overview sort of hovering over the point of the confluence looking back over the land what you see is a bunch of wall structures that allow this small parcel to become ADA accessible it's flood resilient design and there are pockets of plantings around to sort of mimic the riparian areas there are spaces to dock boats on the north branch is an ADA accessible boat launch so we worked with Vermont adaptive on what that means to be an inclusive waterfront and there are many outfits in our area offering paddlers paddle trips for a whole variety of mobility mobility conditions a lot of riverfront access you can see a fishing platform overhanging the water there's actually a deep cut right in here where we know the fishing is good so that excesses that area and then you can see in the background the bike path winds through the area and then they're seating at the top and i'm just going to flip through a couple of these here's a view from actually hovering out at the water down at the river view looking you can see the we we designed prior to the July flooding the area to be a little harder knowing that this area receives ice loading and fluctuating flows from the releases that happen at Wrightsville and then we you know we obviously saw amazing flooding you know this year in July here's a view at the fishing level so a person walker able-bodied wheelchair could wheel down and come to this fishing area we actually built one of these on the New Haven river in the town of Bristol it was pretty wildly popular we're really excited to possibly bring that to Montpelier here's a a larger landing area this originally was designed to be a major boat depot for trips leaving the area and moving going downstream either to the high school or further downstream on longer trips and we actually incorporated a bunch of seating because again a lot of people we tried to create different areas for people to sit down have privacy but also enjoy the river environment and then here's a view of some of that seating some of these niches that are up up towards the top of the park the bike paths off to the right in this photo so a couple images to try to bring this to life and here's the upper park looking over the bike path that's at some of the proposed seating there was also a desire to incorporate art and event space we don't have time to share all that detailed information we're happy to supply any more information if you are interested wanted to share this model so here's the project budget brought a lot of information in the bridge and others about how this started as a $600,000 project and landed as a 2.9 million dollar project love to set the record straight on that this is a really different project through that visioning process things like accessibility and the fishing platform and the boat launch really work were added as well as changing some of the spaces in addition we learned that there's contamination under the edge of the site so that really increased the cost of the project so you can see here the major piece of the project the screen slice of the pie is the structural elements of the walls both for flood resilience as well as to retain the slopes and create that AD accessibility and then the grading price went up a lot because that includes exporting of all the material under the site has to because of the quality of that soil has to go to Coventry landfill and that's expensive endeavor to do that but it's exciting to clean up that and for that fill contaminated fill from under the site and there's also a contingency just things that are normally in in the budgeting for for a project so wanted to share that with you and now i'll i'll turn it back over to caution to talk about the fundraising and how we're working towards that goal so then the question is how do we raise two point nine million dollars to build the project and right now as we speak today 35 percent of the funds have been raised to move the project from 30 year design and vision towards implementation so this includes funding from the clean water fund downtown transportation fund vermont arts council land and water conservation fund and of course the city bond a portion of this is also the land and water conservation fund the land and water conservation fund was established in the 1970s and this is revenue that the federal government receives from offshore oil and gas development that revenue is congressionally designated to be used for parks and open space and this type of infrastructure now when it was created in the 70s from then until 2018 congress failed to actually designate all the money that it was supposed to get to the parks and open space and 2018 congress authorized permanent full funding for the land and water conservation fund so there is now more funding available than any ever before and currently we have a commitment of 330 thousand dollars to the land and water conservation fund they require a one-to-one match based on the current budget it seems very achievable to go back to the land and water conservation fund that now has significantly more funds and say hey this is a different project a larger project than we imagined when we first went to you and receive that's that second chunk of 40 percent more funding from the land and water conservation fund that leaves just 25 left to raise so with that 25 percent which is about 800 thousand dollars what might that look like so the opportunities that i've been looking into um are brownfields funding from the state that requires just a 10 match unlike the federal funds which is very achievable and they specifically prioritize investing brownfields redevelopment funds into sites with very high economic value because they want to see an economic return those funds are through the the agency of commerce and i was on the phone with um what christie farham who works for for the agency and she said to me she did today she said without recreation impacts across the state on an incredible trajectory demonstrating return on investment it won't be hard to make a case for brownfields funding for this project and so she's there in the economic space the business space her job is to look out for businesses and she sees the value of this park supporting our businesses and building our local economy and that's the only neat reason they would put money into this and she sees that opportunity another opportunity is the lake Champlain basin program um i'm actually submitting a grant tomorrow to request $200,000 um we have i talked to them on the phone we have the designs these are implementation funds we are ready to implement and uh we're at the right stage for those types of funding and they're looking for accessible recreation opportunities that connects people with our rivers which this is there's also the vermont outdoor recreation and economic collaborative as a possibility there's a state recreational facilities grant opportunity through the buildings and general services and v-trans has grant programs for alternative transportation because this is a note on the back bike path it has transportation amenities lightings things like that there are aspects of the budget now that we have a specific budget we could go to to that grant program and ask for funding and so there are a lot of fundraising opportunities ahead i know you all when you met a couple weeks ago we're asking where is this project financially right now so this is a little bit detailed it was in the council packet that you all received to date the city has invested a hundred level one hundred and eleven thousand dollars in the project and this has has been for the engineering landscape architecture fly real industrial arts another local business right here in Montpelier western and samson environmental archaeology and the community engagement to inform the design in addition to that vermont river conservancy has invested sixty thousand dollars of funds that have come from businesses that had have come from individuals to support the initial designs and again community outreach so the total community investment that's gone into the project so far is about a hundred seventy one thousand right now in order to finalize the design the next step the project is currently at eighty percent design and the final cost to finalize the design is fifteen thousand seven hundred dollars the plan has been to also do the archaeology and the permitting at the same time and we could hold off undoing the archaeology and the permitting until we have fully assembled the implementation fundings to have that cost savings right now so with fifteen thousand seven hundred dollars more the city can have a shovel ready plan ready to be implemented as soon as the funds are assembled once the designs are final and it's clear that the project has the backing to move forward the city can get fifty thousand dollar reimbursement from the land and water conservation fund grant that it currently has and get fifty thousand dollars back in their pocket the design needs to be finalized and it needs to be clear that we're moving forward with the project i want to work to work here today to ask you all to reaffirm your support for this project so that we can final finalize the designs get that fifty thousand dollars back in your pocket and move forward with the fundraising towards implementation we're very close we have just twenty five percent gap and it's in sight as i mentioned i was in on the on the phone with christie fardham with the department of economic development and she said yes there is funds you can that that's an achievable gap you can close the gap there are strong clear ties between outdoor recreation and infrastructure like this and a strengthened downtown business and it's accessible to all the fact that it has a da ramps seating areas fishing platform boat launch is a huge fit for a lot of grant opportunities to provide equitable equitable access to our rivers and near low-income housing we can get there we're really close and we'll leverage the fit cities investment fivefold through this project and we're here tonight in hopes that you'll reaffirm your support for confidence thank you okay thank you i'm going to start by exposing my own ignorance and ask the first question which is the when i go by the river it usually seems pretty shallow is it deep enough for the kayaking and canoeing sure as part of this we've assessed the depths of the river across there there there are some ledge areas that are features out on the north branch if you look right under the from the bike path bridge under the trust we will see that but if you look right on the main stem right in that spot there's a really deep cut right in there so the river varies a little bit there is some there is a shallow bar spot that you'll be able to walk out on from confluence park so it actually varies so yeah if someone put their boat in at caledonia spirits they could go all the way through downtown without having to carry their canoe yep and a lot of the sediment you see is particularly upstream of main street behind the bailey dam is sediment that's trapped behind that dam so when the flows get really low you often see a lot of fine sediment in islands once if and when though that dam comes out right the water levels are going to drop in there as well and that sediment would likely be removed as part of the project can we talk about the dam removal a little bit is that that's that's not part of this project right the dam removal is a completely separate project but it does also have a happening in parallel so right now we have Vermont River Conservancy has funding for the feasibility studies which is essentially the first step to figure out what how much sediment is behind the dam what's in the sediment how could you take the dams out where i can speak to a feasibility study yeah that's exactly right and an exciting part of that is in fact marty who's on the the call who kasha had mentioned he's on the team to look at what a what the paddlers try out to look like where the white well where could there be whitewater features to really expose the recreation opportunities because that to me that's one of the main reasons to take these dams out beyond lowering the local flood levels around these dams there's going to be an incredible opportunity for recreation to really mimic what's going on the success of the bike path and one of the the four dams are the rat dam or the trestle dam which is on the north branch immediately below the footbridge the bailey dike dam or the shaw's dam that's right downtown right there and then upstream is the pioneer street dam which is along the bike path it's immediately the downstream of wind river environmental that is a site that was a huge brownfields mitigation project with super toxic carcinogens they did the land remediation but logic would follow that those carcinogens and the toxins that were on the land are also in the sediment behind the dam and so there's an opportunity to clean up the river there and then the final dam the fourth dam upstream it's called hidden dam it is actually a little bit hidden it's below u 32 it's along the cross Vermont trail and that um each of these dams potentially creates opportunities to have access to the river as well and i know in other communities people will you know take their tube or their subboard and strap it on to their bike trailer and bike up the trail put their boat in the river paddle downtown and that kind of connectivity between our you know riverfront recreation up and down the corridor means that when there is a no right downtown that's where people are going to be taking out their boats and i was 10 years in Missoula in Montana everybody is in the river too big and you take out your boat downtown and then you go out to eat at a local restaurant you go out to the to grab a drink at the local brewery and your that is the business experience is part of the recreation experience and that's the value of having confluence park downtown connecting all these other opportunities and the feasibility study relates to all all these four dams yes okay okay thanks anybody have any questions so just to continue on the dams what does removal of the dams due to the flow of the river of both the main branch and the north branch so these are small dams they're called run a river dams there's no controls on them most of them don't function right now the flow coming in is the flow going out of these small dams unlike a dam like Wrightsville that stores water and then slowly releases it so from a hydraulic perspective as flow goes over these walls in the river it's locally higher so you take the dam out the the water level the flow levels drop locally particularly upstream of that dam so from the main street bridge up when you see that whole pond and sediment when a flood comes through that's a little bit lower the the trestle dam on north branch is a very small dam it's actually got a big piece of it missing right now so it's probably not having a big impact on the flood levels on the north branch does it change the speed of the water and does that have an effect a little change the speed of the water and part of the feasibility is understanding if that speed changes how well we'll change around that area but these are smaller dams the speed won't change that much that's to be determined to to really understand that change you know one of my concerns is that we you know we've just gone through this a hundred year flood and we're we've got a commission studying a lot of the effects but including the river itself and it just seems that this is sort of I mean even though this has been in in planning for several years and in a lot of city plans I've seen them it's it just seems to be putting the cart before the horse at this particular moment given what we're studying I mean we we may need to do other things to the river it I see a lot of concrete here for example and I see a lot of concrete along the north branch and I think that's part of the issue I'm not a hydrologist but it just seems to make sense we sort of squished the river into into you know where we want it to go and it doesn't want to go there and we're we seem to be intent on building another plug here in a crucial spot why was this particular location chosen I mean I see a lot of ice banging into these terraced I just wonder why on this confluence instead of on a straighter section further down or upstream for example do you want I think there was two things of the flood resilience and why this place yeah do you want to speak to the flood resilience sure the flood resilience I guess what I'd say is the entire area confluence park is currently filled so we're actually going to be pulling back pretty much as much as we can because there's infrastructure all around it and to do that in this space requires all these walls so you know the site I think I completely agree with you some of you know as our historic development patterns land is all all over the state and then really the country we land in these river corridors and we've closed off and there's a trend right now opening these corridors up in a place like Montpelier that's going to be very hard to do with all the infrastructure around there this is actually one project where we're going to start to pull some of that fill out and create the space for this high water to sort of sit in this park so it's not a big change but there's a little extra flood storage in this park then the fill that's there now because that's all going to get pulled back in terraced so the idea that's why it's a little harder it's been designed to withstand the the flooding so what do you mean flood storage I mean there's a lot of hardscape here right so right for example in the platform you see on the land there's there's fill that comes straight off the bike path and steeply down to right at the edge there so right now the land is like this and when we're done the land is going to be like this it's going to be pulled back a little bit which means that when the water gets real high it can store this much more room so the turn is more gradual than it yeah and the river can flow by design over this flat area so it's in the bottom of the stairs here where does that correspond to the edge of the land that's currently at that spot do you want to go to the aerial photo yeah maybe we'll just take a step back right here so trying to get the cursor there it is news you all sort of see that so it coincides pretty closely with the edge of land that you're seeing here might project out a little bit and then this fill and steep bank will be kind of cut back and that's where the terracing i don't see where you're pointing right now the cursor there it is really so it will be right in here i can we don't have those slides with you we do have some cross sections that show this really vividly i can share share with the council we were very mindful of even prior to july the fact that this area gets very unique flood patterns because of the reservoir the flood storage reservoir upstream on the north branch and confluence areas are are typically not in this setting but they're usually very dynamic areas so you definitely do not want to be closing these areas off so we're basically trying to combine building a resilient park and opening up that area as much as possible with the bike path and the other structure around there and the other question you were asking was why this place and i think the answer what there are many answers to that one is that it's right downtown this is the like if you look at it if you if you google map like montpellier in vermont it practically puts your cursor right here like this is right in the middle and so it allows people to have that connection between the river access and the business community and i think also if you look back at several of the old plans you know this here in 2000 it's not the only green space along the riverfront it's one of many and we've built some of this in a way with the bike path and this is kind of a critical node and i think um it also the fact that it's at the confluence of the rivers this is that's where our community is montpellier exists here because it's at the confluence of the north branch in milanuski so the cultural history from the abenake uses of the land at the confluence of rivers and rivers as uh kind of the super highways and um for trade and connection between communities and rivers being the historic region you know having using rivers for power to power industrial uses um and so the fact that it's at the confluence i think also shares a story with the community of why we are here in this place and what our geography is and how we as community relate to our rivers and our and our watershed and i think that's really important something you said just reminded me of something we talked about the other day you mentioned rivers being used for power were any of the dams on the river started out as power generating dams or why are they there do you know i know something um yeah give it a shot okay so the um the the the trestle dam also known as the rap dam the reason that's there is that the combined sewer overflow heading straight out from our homes and our sewer system straight into the river when the water would dip below the sewer system the rats would go into the sewer system and into people's homes and that wasn't a real desirable condition and so the rat dam was built to keep the water level of the north branch at a minimum level so that rats would stay out of our houses that's not needed anymore um was never built for power the um Bailey dam by Shaw's that dam i think was old um kind of small hydro industrial um its current iteration um is not that old at several decades old somebody probably on zoom will will tell me the history of it but um my understanding is that it was um built actually um as the idea was that they would have motorboats behind it speeding around in downtown but the problem with that dam is that it doesn't hold water it holds sediment so they built the dam and almost immediately it filled up with silt and now it's just kind of this shallow backwater all the way back quite a ways um and the pioneer street dam i don't know what the history of that one is yeah but we'll find that out that's part of the feasibility study too is to learn the history of each of these dams okay thanks yeah anyone else have any questions jim i guess i do um so i started this yeah i would work so come on yeah so i guess i have questions i mean i'm kind of looking at this trying to piece it together and make sense of it and it was spurred for me by looking at the warrants like we just signed a book of them tonight for expenses we pay and items kept coming up for this and i thought it was a project that was not cool so that's why i brought it up and because it seems like we're spending money on a project that's gone from six seven hundred thousand dollar range up to three point something million now and i'm very honestly just don't feel it's something we're going to do so i think as much as i appreciate your passion for it and all the work you've done you've got this point one acre piece of land that's in a very sensitive repairing zone i'm really surprised the member conservancies willing to carve it up and build big retaining walls and and do the things that are proposed but nonetheless you know i think they're easier places along the river to create access probably more cost effectively that might be effective you know i'm looking at the community just invested in this new recreation path that i think does bring a lot more people near the water and it's really worked well um which one but if you look at it right now it's pretty sad the thing is covered with silk and the flood we haven't done anything with it it smells like a bathroom because we have a lot of unhoused people living down there and it's just awful i've had a lot of people say i don't feel safe walking through there right now um and i don't think creating this is going to be any better at the moment than what we've got up on top i think we're just going to have more of that closer to the river so i i feel like it's a project that's spiraling and it's time to call it and that's why i brought this do you have a response that you want to make to that or i don't know that we're all called out of council man it's not a question donna yeah i mean i've been luckily i've supported this before i got on council i'm going on ten years on the council i've supported it i do think it's part of your vision and it keeps coming up it came up in sustainable month failure it comes up even as our media is about the risk responding to the flood people want the river but it doesn't have to be here but when we did it here i mean some of the things that have been presented i think this is the first time you've seen this luckily i've seen it in all sorts of stages and i also remember the people who came i want to call them the white river group but they came because they were excited about this very important confluence piece and that they want to see the dams removed and we had a good presentation on dam removal at that time the council didn't vote to do it and likewise to actually think about not only having this space that goes with our housing at the transit center as well as pulling in the rest of downtown but also the fact that they just said you put in a few more volters and you've got white rotto and then you've got really exciting events that you can have and they again showed slides of where this had happened and to me that's where it is it's an economic development yes is it also outdoor recreation which is also economic development but it's a healthier place and i think it we do need more sitting space and we do need to all own it i feel very fortunate that i feel like i can walk on the bike path anywhere and i want more of that and so i feel if we have a gold in the front of us that this will take another 15 700 of our money and then fine give them the 12 months that we had previously promised and she's already down to 25 percent very impressive so i i really support this and i think that we've saw a lot of activity and emails of people who support it but even before the most recent emails all these studies are citizens who have participated and told us they really want this i think it's the right location and there should be more happening afterwards more do you see the hands on my computer yeah carry yeah thank you so much for this um i appreciate seeing kind of the latest thinking that you have on this and um i've seen this a couple times now as a council member but i also remember seeing it as a just as a citizen of Montpelier before this so i know it's been part of the conversation for a long time um i have a lot of really big questions and reservations about this project in general but um at this point i feel like um all of them i just want to set them aside because the the primary concern for me right now is we just had this huge flood um we're gonna have another one it's not a hundred-year flood anymore it could be a yearly flood i don't know but that we we really need to reconsider our entire relationship with the river and with um and i think that our community is doing that right now and we've had a lot of community conversations and i think it's really happening which is great um i when we think about historical uses of this area and historical uses of the river um you mentioned the ibeniki and everything kind of since then the ibeniki weren't putting permanent settlements by the river because they saw it flood and i mean i assume and um didn't didn't try to change it to fit what they want didn't try to put their desires on to it uh ever since then since europeans have come in we've decided we want to do this with the river we want it to meet our needs and we want to change it and put our needs onto it and so i mean that's getting a little bit you know um i don't know what i'm trying to say but it's a little non-concrete uh but i but i'm feeling very strongly right now like what what i'm learning from this flood experience that we've had is that we need to kind of step back from trying to encroach onto the river trying to make the river do what we wanted to do trying to put our needs onto the river and just take breath at least and say for right now we're going to be thinking about ways that we can look at what the river needs to do and make it possible for the river to do that and suit our lives to that instead of the other way around so we're not moving all of downtown away from the river at this point but we're probably going to see a little bit less development downtown we're going to see different kinds of development downtown we're going to we're looking at you know people are having to make changes to their houses if they live in the flood zone because we're recognizing that we have to adapt to the river so it may be that in the future we come around to decide that we need something like this and at that point if i'm still in city council i'll raise a lot of the questions that i have about it but um for right now i'm not at all comfortable with the city investing a lot more money into this project i i think i could be persuaded to put another 15 thousand into it if that really does get it to a point where it can then be sort of like say okay we've got some good plans we're going to put it aside for now and then maybe at some point come back and revisit it but the six hundred thousand dollar bond um that was originally approved by voters as something that was tacked on and folded into a lot of other expenses i don't feel confident that the fact that that past town meeting means that there is a there may very well be very strong community support for it but i that's not a convincing thing to me we also had a strong support for readjusting how we would spend that money at our last town meeting election so if we're looking at the election results to indicate to us how people want us to spend that money it's not clear to me at all i don't know so so at this point i i i would be open to the idea of finishing the planning process if it really is essential to get us to a point where we can say okay we'll stop now and that's what i'm comfortable with at this point could i just ask what remains to be done on the on the design the the fifteen thousand dollars would be spent doing what um there's a little more work on the structural elements of the the part like some of the detailing of the walls so that the plans are currently at about 80 complete these are construction plans yeah um they will i guess i'd call them final design plans because the once they go through permitting they might get tweaked a little bit to sort of make them turn them into construction plans so for that fifteen thousand dollars it gets us to final design where um there's a planting plan some of the details on on what goes on the walls and some of the layout and the structural elements there's just a little there's a bunch of more details that were part of the budget that we just paused on once um the flood happened and we kind of heard about all this okay good thanks the the reality of the plan is that if you leave a plan at 80 percent and say the community came back to it in a year or two years or three years there's more work to go backwards to redo the engineering and redo the landscape architecture and figure out okay it's like putting your finger in the book and remembering where you left off so there's a cost to that and so getting the plans to final plans means that they're ready assemble the fun and you can you can start doing the work and so i think that's pretty important to make sure the city gets the best return on the investment they've made so far Donna I wondered if having finished plans also help you get 25 percent you're looking to raise yes absolutely so that's a piece of you know the funds that we need from here our implementation plan funds not design funds and so when they see that we have a plan that's ready that's when those funders are ready to line up they can see the vision and they can see what's happening if they say oh you've still got a lot of work to do to do build these plans you're not ready for this we can't even apply for those funds yet so having the finished plans allows us to move forward with implementation funds and the the plans the way the the current land and water conservation fund grant that the city has the first deliverable in that grant is final design and so once that deliverable is met that's the point when the city would be able to request reimbursement if it's clear the project is moving forward towards implementation because it's not a planning grant it's an implementation grant and so if it's clear that we if we met final design and we're moving forward with implementation the city can put $50,000 back in its pocket if we don't have those pieces you can't ask for the reimbursement so where we left it I thought was to finish this before before this our last you know six months ago when we gave you 18 months it was to finish this this particular design and then you were going to have time to go get your money was there any other expenditure that was actually going to be happening so what we have in place now would pretty much fulfill what you wanted is that we're just going to do the if indeed we support doing the design then we're waiting for you to spend the 12 months and get your funding and then you come back to us and I would come back basically a year from now and say here's the funding plan we've got the money this isn't what our commitments are if we don't change our authorization today is that correct Bill is that what you understand council said we're not going to put any more than 600,000 in yep we're going to give you at that time 18 months to come up with the rest of the project complete the design do what you need to do I do I would stand to be corrected by council members but I do think that part of that was saying if you get the money our plan is to proceed because they have to go ask for money you know it's a double part not only we're getting a design but we're proceeding and I think the council saying if you get the money our plan would be to go ahead with it we're just not putting any more money in it and I think what Kasia just said was if we complete the design and it's clear we're moving forward we can get the 50,000 reimbursements I think the question that was raised okay before the council at the last meeting is is this still an active project should we continue moving forward and that's the decision you're discussing right now and that's that's a real open question in my mind just hearing what people in the council have said tonight's meeting and our last meeting I don't I don't think you have a majority of the council saying we're committed to going forward with this if you raise all this money and you know we haven't had a vote on that so we don't know what's going to happen but but what does that do to your to your fundraising efforts well if I showed up here with a three million dollar check and said I want to be able to build a park and you said we're not building it even if you hand us three million dollars there's no point dollars so it is and every single grant opportunity is going to want to know that if the project is funded that it's going to happen they they're trying to have make a difference in this world and whether it's the brownfields funding and wanting to have an economic development development impact on our downtown or parks funding and wanting people to have equitable access to our rivers each of these funders has a vision that they want to achieve through investing in this project and so they want to know when they invest in this project that it can go through and so you know I'm committed to raising the funds if we can you know if if we're going to move forward with this project I can't I can't raise the money if I'm going to show up here even if I showed up here with a three million dollar check and you still said no we don't even want your park I can't raise that money but you what you might be in it you might be in a position of having the council say a year from now today where we may not be committing to uh to do this a year from now if we have the money we'll be farther along in our flood resiliency thinking and discussions we may think about a different a year from now absolutely so you know between now over the next 12 months I have all these opportunities I lined up I have a grant proposal I'm submitting tomorrow asking for $200,000 so I can do all of that I think we you know I was on the the people I've been on the phone with lately say this is an exciting project this is what Montpelier needs many of them say I live in Plainfield or I live you know in communities they're passing through and they say I saw what happened to Montpelier you guys were in disaster zone and you need to bounce back and they see this park as an opportunity to show up and say you know what we're not disappearing we're not being like flooded off the map we're not going away we're actually going to have a vibrant downtown that has a healthy relationship with the rivers and has a positive place to connect with the rivers and engage with the rivers and says you know what yes we are in a community that's going to flood it's going to happen again but we are resilient and these are the kinds of we also have a healthy relationship with our rivers and we understand that dynamic and this is a real opportunity to support you know be part of the recovery and you know everybody in the community is looking for flood resilient infrastructure we're handing you designs for flood resilient infrastructure okay Palin I because the way we're set up it's hard to see you I just don't want to make sure you know thank you for your presentation and thank you for answering my question and sending email to me from like last presentation and like last time it's a great vision I really like the idea but at the same time I am also on the Montpelier ally board and last couple months all the meetings we are having and listening to businesses stories and also other people who were affected by the flood even like one dollar makes huge difference changing their stories so after like spending all all those months with them I don't feel comfortable spending money on this project right now but again I I really like the idea and I'm sure it will bring so many things but this flood and our limited budget I feel more responsible to just focus on our like more immediate needs like I say but thank you for your presentation again okay Donna I guess I'm just so supportive of this project and I feel like nothing else just six months ago we made a commitment of 18 months and there are immediate needs that this $6,000 won't help at all you can't apply this everywhere that we want we can't do the repairs we can do new stuff with it but if you actually read even though we modified it we can't use this 600,000 and so over here the money that we have bonded no have not yet bonded that the voters voted for for this park is not money that we can help unfortunately many of the needs that are due for the flood yeah so it's $600 that invest in our future and without that when we get done with all the other repairing if we aren't making these constant steps forward to that vision it won't ever happen however park didn't happen when it was needed it happened because people said we got a plan that lands going to be absorbed let's take some aside north branch didn't happen without people planning I mean bar hill didn't happen without us planning it costs the city money to do that double partnership with that business so I just feel like over and over again our bike paths you can say various times it's too expensive but if we don't invest in that we don't have a shared use pass for people to use so it just just bring back to reality that's all yeah so I share my opinion and I don't think we need to respond each other's statements so that was my opinion and that's what other people share with me I didn't respond any other city councilor's statements so I think we should keep like that everybody should tell their ideas questions we shouldn't just say oh you said this but this is like that I'm very sorry you took it that way well yeah I see we've had a couple of hands up in the out in zoom world for for a long time so starting with Joe Castellano and it'll take a minute to get on there we go there I am thank you thank you for acknowledging me and I appreciate you you know the presentation and everything my input is I think that right now it's not fiscally prudent for us to continue on with this project I mean it's going to cost us five million dollars to just get city hall back up and running certainly the flood has impacted the city's finances so you know as much as I may be in favor of this park as a citizen I just can't see it being fiscally prudent at this point the other thing too is I'm just also concerned that you know there is a homeless problem down there and I'm not sure whether this is going to be a place that even if the park is built whether it will attract the families that you're hoping to attract there the third point is I understand the currents there are somewhat challenging to put in and then there is another kayak and river access right near the high school Bill Haines memorial access which has got a great ramp to get a kayak or canoe in and so that's just my thought okay thanks Marty and you there we go yeah thank you thank you for having me I I am working with Kasha let me just ask you to introduce identify yourself before you start sure Marty Parish stands I founded a nonprofit in Franklin New Hampshire that built a whitewater park very similar I've it has been an agent of change here locally Kasha kind of mentioned that Franklin New Hampshire was the smallest and poorest city in the state of New Hampshire and that was seven years ago this past May the most expensive condo sold in our county was in Franklin a $750,000 condo the whitewater park is a driver whitewater parks are very similar to what you're discussing with Confluence Park the difference is if there's a hydraulic jump inside the river that creates a surf wave that people can utilize every day and although that's not in your design what I do know I've been at this almost 10 years the nonprofit was formed seven years ago what I do know is all of your concerns are very valid I've heard them all the way down to the shape of the river and the concrete and they all have positive benefits for the river ecosystem but also your community here I'll try to keep it super brief and answer any questions that people might have here we've raised three and a half million for our whitewater park it's installed it came to life February of 2021 and since then in 2015 when we got going we had one restaurant in our downtown in a mile and a quarter our downtown is super small it's not something to be compared with Montpelier but the effects of what we're talking about should be a major consideration for you guys we had a one restaurant then we have nine that opened in the last 18 months it gives just like some of the people have said it creates vibrant places people want to visit and they can visit for free which is definitely something and what we've noticed with the whitewater park we intended on seeing a lot of users and enthusiasts but they're vastly outnumbered by the fishermen and the families and those people want to walk the downtown they want to grab a drink they're going to go to the gas station and they want to go out to eat or get a t-shirt right all of those things commerce restaurants lodging that's where you make money for your businesses especially after the the travesty that you guys are working with now the shape and the structure and the concrete i i get those concerns i am most certainly an outdoor enthusiast i would classify myself as a hardcore tree hugger the realization though is that these rivers worked or have been working for their communities for a very very long time thankfully the permitting process in place will show if there's issues with the designs for the 100 and the 500 year floods right so you'll end up with a product that's better suited for flood situations than what you have now that's why the bathymetry data is required that's why hydraulic modeling is required even computational on some level and kind of like roi was explaining with the terracing of it you're creating more volume that means the water level will actually go down it won't be constricting it and going and having it go up probably the very last thing i would mention is you know the unhomed or the homeless it's certainly something every community is dealing with across the country that's that's a very large issue in and of itself but what i've seen is the whitewater park sits on a very small parcel very similar to what we're discussing with confluence about a mop excuse me 1.5 acres it was an underutilized property kind of the gateway to our downtown it gave people a place to walk to a place to visit but it wasn't utilized it had a large retaining wall that prevented people from getting close to the river in opening that up it is now a place that sees activity every single day where in 2015 it would have seen homeless folks camping there people bringing beers to sit with their friends and basically folks that were up to no good we took it a step further in upstream we actually took 13 acres of land and then followed that project on with another project of 18 acres for a total of 31 all underutilized property all in industrial ruins all had very large homeless encampments and what we did is we created more traffic right more traffic is a form of informal policing right the more people that use a bike path the more people that use a waterway the less likely others who are up to no good or squatting on land that they don't own will find refuge there right so I wouldn't you you all have a considerable amount on your plate but projects like this it's not unique to Montpelier there is a huge trend across the country where these projects are making positive impacts riverside projects whitewater parks are happening everywhere there's 300 whitewater parks in the country but ours was the first one in all of new england we're just a little bit behind in my opinion of this trend across the country in some states are much better suited for it of course Colorado is a prime example for every dollar spent on a lottery ticket 50 cents goes towards a bike path a whitewater park or a hiking trail right cut you there I think I I think we're probably over the three minutes but okay but but thank you for your insights folks where are we oh it's okay it's okay does anyone have a motion to make I'll move that we discontinue the project and and no what just discontinue it no longer continue on as a project in the works second okay is there any further discussion you know we've we've talked we've talked about this a lot do we have any discussion on the motion Carrie you look like you're about to say something yeah um I mean as I said I have a lot of reservations and concerns questions about this project I'm not sure I'm ready at this point to vote to just completely get rid of it um I think you know we did vote back in February that we were going to take 18 months to kind of see how things were and nss then and I that still feels like a good plan to me okay I don't know how I would I'll feel at the end of the 18 months but I would like to see that through yeah I feel the same way uh-huh any any other discussion okay all those in favor signify by saying hi all right all those opposed no abstain okay so it's two to two so the motion fails sorry which way did she vote she did she did not vote she said she wasn't prepared to vote tonight um okay so that's an abstention I got you right didn't I so if it's two to two then you um I could or I could not I'm not required to vote okay so the motion doesn't pass is there anything else we're going to do or is that are we done with this topic so for clarity and for the public and everybody else um you took no action essentially so the policy and decision from last February is still the standing policy and action of the council yes I mean that's that's what it is until you change it that's what it is yes so that's where you're at no obligation to proceed yeah would you restate what what the policy is the council said that's why I'm trying to I'm not trying to push you in any direction I'm trying to make sure everyone walks out of here knowing with the same expectations City Council voted last February that they would not spend more than $600,000 on the project they authorized them to complete the design and to and gave them 18 months to get the money with and if they did not have enough funding at that point basically wouldn't continue I think the I don't know if it was explicitly stated and let me just finish what I'm saying and then I'll I'll be happy to take any corrections uh what's that well let's let's let him finish so that was basically then um at least my inference was that if they got the money we would proceed but now we've had a conversation there was a vote to discontinue it that didn't pass so there's been no action since then that would change the last February's action at the council so if there's if I got the clarity wrong that's fine we can always go back and look at the motion that was made last February I'm also happy to listen to people's views I'm not trying to push it one way or the other okay carry I have the motion beautiful um so what we voted for was to hold $600,000 that was previously approved by the voters for at least 18 months and during that time we receive updates and could reconsider the situation so I think that's what we decided to do and sort of our we might all have different memories or senses of what our intent kind of was um and we also have some new members of the council since then but that's what we decided to do was that we're not going to spend any of that that $600,000 which we don't have yet we haven't we haven't bonded for it but we decided we're going to wait on that so that's where we still are we have an opportunity to reconsider yes so implementation is not a given it's not yeah I think that motion that passed is what counts yeah I think that's a great work to have that carry because that that's that's that's our decision on record so that remains the decision yeah okay thank you thank you for coming in thanks everybody who came and spoke and thank you to all the people who sent us the email so I appreciate that and now so Mike Miller again so what we've already decided on so there's no staff working on this project right now just so everybody understands there's nobody working on this project is all being worked on by the consultants and by the river conservancy so it's not affecting any of our workloads and what we've decided is they are only going to work on getting to the hundred percent of the design if if there wasn't a change tonight we have made the decision of not advancing permitting or archaeology until we have full funding and we come back and have a green light to go to implementation so there is only that window of I guess fifteen thousand dollars to complete the project the river conservancy is not being paid to do the work of doing all this homework to try to find the other grants so we're not expending money they're doing that out of their own work so as we're going forward as this project is still moving forward it is the really the only money that's going to be expended now it's just going to be the 15,000 to complete the design work that was already in their contract we already have a contract with them to do that so just so it's clear that's that's where we're at so if that's already in their contract then that is not a change yes okay but in their contract was also going to permitting and um archaeology and we've told them we're not going to go to permitting and archaeology and they've agreed they don't believe we should go to permitting and archaeology until we have all the funding and the full green light to move forward and we would build those two steps into the final um the final the final basically the bid dock when we go to bid those last two pieces and go into those bid docks okay thanks make sure everyone understands that that's from a staff standpoint we haven't really been expending any effort on this project it's all been done by our consultants and by the river conservancy so great thanks okay now it's time for our uh 10 minute break so it's six thirty eight thirty eight now so to eight forty eight well we've got priority we've got priority is these how we did the scorecard so to speak and it was a good lead in i think for your conversation next week when you start to lay out the new goals and priorities and plan for the upcoming year for the upcoming pledge so you give me a chance to see things that are in it and all that and while we're talking about that i was going to say that we will be meeting next wednesday at the senior center that's where our meeting will be held i think we said five thirty so great and and we're having pizza or something we're having some yes we'll get we will get a menu we'll have Mary see if what people can and can't eat sometimes we have eating yeah requirements we have to check which i appreciate as someone on the pickier end of the spectrum so i appreciate because i'm one of the pickier people on the spectrum so all right are we ready to go great all right so i prepared a quick presentation um to just go over in summary um where we ended the um 2023 strategic plan um and also provided some details for you to consider as we move forward with the next strategic planning time period i'm just trying to dance my slides here hold on i'm just gonna move along this way so as you will call from the slides um these are all of our goals um and so for our plan just looking at these just wanted to refresh memories and then as we move on here i wanted to also share what the structure looks like of our strategic plan is this big enough for folks to see okay okay and so you can kind of see how our plan is laid out using this public health and safety emergency management example which you know currently it's pretty important to be looking at that and then on into the next summary here i just wanted to pull out the prioritize strategies i'm not going to read through all of them i'm just going to kind of cruise right along here um but i also wanted to highlight them for the purposes of this presentation so you could see them again okay so here's where it gets kind of neat i'm going to go out to our public facing dashboard right now um and so in your packets you did have a report that was in writing detailing all of the things that we did so this is just a visualization of those results so you can kind of see those and so what i'm going to do is walk through each of these goals um that we have and highlight areas where you know there's um a black bar which means that something was uh discontinued and we weren't able to complete that task so i want to highlight that because you may want to consider those items in a future strategic plan or you might want to leave them right where they are um if you see a green or a blue bar that's really good we've either completed it or we are well on our way to completing it if you see yellow or red bar there is either a disruption or a major delay and so i'll also cover some of those items as well so taking a look at um this first one here um improving community prosperity just kind of cruising on down here to the bottom section here you can see how well we've done with this particular goal it's kind of a mixed bag um we've actively supported economic development that's on track um so while the progress here may not you know seem as significant we are um working to that end um we are working to actively support child care options but we have had some delays um in that category um what i do want to highlight here is this um new economic development plans we do have 60% of us being discontinued and so i just wanted to drill into that a little bit so you could see exactly what we're talking about here so um incentivizing new businesses to serve working class residents um we are working on initiatives to that end but we didn't feel as though we had something that could really speak to this and so we discontinued it um we reviewed economic development strategic plan and determined priorities but we because of where we were at within the process we actually didn't end up um completing that item um we did complete the economic development activities and provided funding for that um and then we did not work on tax stabilization which might be something that you would consider in a future plan and then we did complete our review and evaluation of the TIF program and kelly just just to be clear what we're looking at is what any member of the public could look could see by uh going to our city's web page yes correct and how often are these uh updated with each quarterly report so i'm going to keep moving through the goals just so we can kind of drill down a little bit so you can kind of see where things are there is more detail provided in the report in the packet um so in this area here um to provide responsible and engaged government um in terms of communicating effectively there is you know some really good news there but we also did have um a black bar which is a discontinued item and this was to increase coordination with the neighborhood groups um we unfortunately were not able to do that we did work with um can as long as we could through sustainable communities but that effort was discontinued because they were no longer um sort of viable so we're going to continue to look to you know add other initiatives for that um but just wanted to note that and then looking at um utilize MPD's community resource officer position so we are working um to do that and we also I think hopefully you'll agree have improved the functionality of the website it's a work in progress we will continue to work on content are you okay with taking questions or comments while you go along sure yeah I I was just talking to someone recently who said well I can never even find what what the agenda is for a meeting and we should always be able to get to the agenda within two clicks of the web uh going to the webpage and so I went home and looked at it and I said oh okay click one once I'm on the city's webpage click one was go to agendas and then click two was scrolling down to the council or whatever committee it was for and the second click would be would get us right to the agenda so I think it I think we're there with a lot I think it's better than people think it is and the video instruction really helps a lot you know I mean thank you for that feedback and I also think that there opportunities to improve further and you know if we can get people to the information that they're looking to get to one of the things that we are looking at is the analytics behind the website to see where people are going so that the website is a little bit more dynamic you know people are coming to our website for information for you know documents of record they're not coming to kind of like hang out peruse all the items and so we want to make sure that we are improving that where we can so one of the areas that you would like to look at and the future is looking at the content making sure that it's up to date and everything that is needed is there right here fingertips and so we're working to that end so the next one here to kind of drill into is this create more housing items I want to scroll down here and you know we are looking pretty good in this area we have made some gains especially when it comes to available housing units they're you know not complete it's a work in progress and so some of these things we're not going to be able to say done but you know I think it's also a good indicator of where we're at at this point and what that looks like get into more detail but I'll keep moving unless there are specific questions related to these items so moving on so this next one practice good environmental stewardship we have had some good progress and so I think you know we are definitely on track when it comes to addressing impacts of climate change and expanding park lands and there are a few items here that you can see that don't necessarily have status bars attached to them and we do have updates but they're not captured within this plan and so we can work to get that done but I just wanted to highlight them working on green practices for the cemetery which I know is happening for sure developing the youth conservation corps they were a real lifesaver during the flood and also have been doing some amazing work in the parks and so I did want to give a shout out and mention it because I do think that it's something that is so important for our community and then we are working on the home energy ordinance and so there'll be more to come on that just not represented here since it's a relatively new initiative this one I think we'll be spending some time on now and in the future this is our infrastructure goal and you can see that there are a few items here that are delayed or are significantly disrupted and so just starting with the first one address new or improved infrastructure needs and so when you drill down into this you can kind of see outlined here where the disruptions are but I also would argue that we are working towards these goals and that's why it's not being discontinued but just to highlight them produce plans to support the construction of a public restroom recreation building renovation explore and develop new recreation center options actively pursue creation of recreation open space facilities at 203 Country Club Road and anticipate a process for future 55 Berry Street recreation center and you know there's definitely more to come on these so I think that that's why we're showing a yellow but we wanted to really actually highlight that so that you know it's something that we still need to continue to work on and then also within this category is developing rec center options which we're on track with and we'll have more for you soon on that and so on into the next category investing in long-term public works infrastructure plans you can see that this is yellow and red and so some of this if you look at the major disruption here it's you know related to where we're at with some of the projects we are following our plan however there have been delays related to whether it be staffing funding you know or a variety of conditions and so in this category we are delayed and we will need to continue to talk about it as we talk about the capital plan especially during this next budget cycle so want to highlight that for you and then this next one is a yellow bar this initiative is to create a snow melt system with district heat and so it's something that is say within the idea phase that we've been you know kind of shopping around and you know we'll see if that comes to fruition or not but it's identified there for you and so the next one is city funding strategies you know you can see where we're showing some major disruptions here sufficient funding to attain and maintain at least 70 pavement condition index which is pretty important it's a goal that was set by council and you know we are trying to adhere to that however you know as we're doing our pavement plans you know we have been delayed due to funding and coming back from the pandemic and covering that ground I'm on hold given our financial situation so even projects that were planned to be completed this fall and spring we've had to stop until we know have a better sense of our finances so they're not all some of these were not necessarily as disrupted perhaps last quarter as they are now and so the next one is the creation of a stormwater utility definitely done some work on that but it also has been delayed and then expansion of district heat we are looking at that but there's also some disruption there with regard to the district heat I think there were some controls that were damaged in the flood is that going to be up and running for this heating season yes there is going to be some delay but people people can get heat now if they if they're ready to take it not everyone is but our control systems will probably not be fully functional so we'll be able to provide heat that's not a problem but there's a precision of control that we probably will have within two to three weeks we might have to do some manual we're not sure we're going to be able to get the full fiber optic network back so we might have to do it by internet or some other way but it's definitely in the works and we can provide the heat we can give people the customers that need it it's just some some are slowly coming you know some are up and running now others are on their way back is that insured was that insured covered by insurance for us yeah well I listed that as one of our public asset damages for us but it's still the time it's you know some of these aren't so financial so much as it is just getting the parts and the pieces that you need to put it back together in the short you know I mean it's you know the flood happened in July get as Tim was mentioning you know just getting his buildings up and heating in typically fashion just it's a short turnaround time and that's actually we we were pretty active trying to talk to folks who had damaged furnaces if they wanted to convert but and many were interested but there just wasn't enough turnaround time to get it and with the ordering to get all the pieces in that you need the heat exchangers and the meters and those kinds of things so but that's all part of our FEMA claim yes that in yes well not not the potential new business no but we're in burst yeah with our last goal here improve public health and safety there are no discontinuations no red bars so this one's looking pretty good as well we've been actively working to address homelessness within the community and so you can see that looks some pretty pretty solid we are providing pleasing which fits most needs for effective mental health we just did higher for the clinical social worker position and so that's happening so we're able to support that we are disaster ready although I would say there are a lot of things to be gleaned and learn from our most recent experience and so this one for sure something I'll be taking under advisement in the future and the next one continue public safety planning so that's looking pretty good as well so that's what the goals look like visually within our dashboard again I'm happy to drill down into anything if you'd like or take questions based on what's in the report but just heading back to the slides here I wanted to take the time and opportunity to kind of look at you know maybe some next steps that seems good and so this next slide that I wanted to show you and this one is a little bit small so I apologize for that let me see if I can just blow it up a little bit is that a little bit better so this slide is from the citizen survey the community survey that we did last fall and I wanted to bring this forward to you just so that we can kind of take a look at some of the inputs from the community and some of the things that were important at that time we are doing these benchmarking studies to really provide the data for strategic planning to give us you know a guide and how we might approach certain things and so you can see that there is a column where it shows sort of the similar lower or higher and that's against the benchmark and that ranks us against other communities nationwide so we can kind of see generally how we're doing and so just to highlight areas where we are lower or higher overall quality of the utility infrastructure is lower than your benchmark community residents connection and engagement with the community is higher which is fantastic and then this overall feeling of safety is a little bit lower but you also need to take a look at you know what their percentage rating is there and kind of think about you know what that means for the community and whether or not that's something that you know still at 70% which is still pretty good so this just kind of provides a guide I think in terms of you know where we're at you know what the community thought when we did this survey last fall but I think it's still good information as we consider the next strategic planning process and then moving forward this just highlights some of the lower or higher benchmarks the bolded text here are items that and the current strategic plan and so we did work on these things the ones that are not bolded that might be lower than benchmark say it might be items that you would want to consider would be you know ease of public parking residential growth overall quality of new development and then there are some things that you know we may not offer as a community that others would nationwide such as garbage collection or and we do some extent do some heroic ways pick up at certain times of the year but if you look at the higher than benchmark items we're doing pretty good I'd say but just to highlight those items for you and then this particular side I think is very interesting because this takes when we did the survey in 2009 and when we did it in 2022 and hopefully we'll have the opportunity to do this again next year so that we will then have another data set to work with but at least for these two time periods we can compare where we were and so what I did is I extracted the items where we may have lost some ground in 2022 just so that you can kind of see you know what that looks like and so just as the note says here if the difference between 2009 and 2022 survey is greater than six percentage points the change is statistically significant and so it's just something to consider and so you can see here you know there are some highlights for sure recreation centers or facilities 73% in 2009 to 51% in 2022 or looking at the street repair you know 32% in 2009 and 2022 I mean I think some of these things are things that we we already know it hangs together you know we're not seeing anything new here but it does highlight areas where we could potentially focus on areas housing options is another one what we're working on and I mean we've got you know some new developments in town and so it would be really interesting to see what the next survey would present and so the other things that I did pull here was a comparison of the city of Montpelier services and federal government services and how those were ranked and so proceed services you know we did see decrease but we're still over 70% and so that's I think good to highlight and then you know federal government was at 43% in 2009 and 36% in 2022 and then there are a few items here that we did ask on this survey this time around in 2022 that we did not ask in 2009 but I think are also important just to consider you know such as confidence and our own local government here and then also overall direction and so just want to put that there and then this next one was more of an open-ended question we were able to ask a few specific questions as part of the survey and so I even kind of see in order here what people were thinking again no surprise but as we look to the future and what we might put in the next strategic plan as you head into that development process next week you've got some plans to consider there and you know backed up with some of the data that we have so this next slide and one of the things that I would like to bring into the process as we go forward is to look at piloting some performance measures or indicators so that we can really get our arms around how well how much is anybody better off and provide you with that context and then also consider some performance standards so that we can see if we're meeting the community's expectations and so we have some of those factors in our current strategic planning process such as like PCI or there are some really good public safety statistics that we could pull from which will be helpful I think as we look at some of our strategic planning elements and consider you know are we moving the needle or not are we doing what you intended you know how can we you know make things happen um so that's what I have for a presentation um and if you have questions or if you need more detail I'm happy to provide it thanks so much Kelly does anybody have any questions okay okay thank you thank you I'm curious what the process will be next week uh-huh do you want it I'm a little curious of what the process will be next week I think it's going to be uh so I and he's out of town this week so I can't uh can't touch base with him but when we talk I think it's going to be getting a sense of what everyone's sort of top priorities are laying him out picking major you know either saying are these the same or do you want to pick up big topics and then talking about key initiatives I mean the idea is to create a plan and set your goals and priorities and then key action items we'll get as far as we can in the time that we have and if we have to follow up more the following week we will you don't want to overdo it so it's it's I think it's going to be a if anyone has ever done a planning goal setting priority process it's it'll look like that you know we've not we've not used Paul for this before um are you feeding us yes yes carry yes yeah thanks I'm I've been through processes like these like this before I don't know if this is actually working that won't help oh won't help okay I just have my ears plugged up so I'm sorry very well that's all um I've never seen a process like this get done in one meeting I mean that's we cannot possibly do something that's in one meeting so I'm also curious about how it's going to go and I'm also wondering if the assumption is that this structure the way we have our strategy plan structure now is what we're going to use or not or what I would love to see something ahead of time and and this social social and economic justice committee has also asked to see something ahead of time and I haven't been able to provide it to them um so I'm wondering if that might be possible so there's a lot there so we don't expect it will be completed completed usually what happens the council lays out kind of a mishmash of things and there's usually some direction to it and we try to write it up and bring it back to the council try to reflect back what we think people said and then we take it and if we need more time we need more time it's your plan you know we should do it right I mean this is an important statement so so I think that's important as far as structure I mean we do I think the only structure is I think the the notion of the you know what's like we want to improve infrastructure okay that's like a big goal and then what are some of the specific steps we want to do that structure is kind of how our software is set up and how we measure things the content doesn't have to you know you could pick those six top things could be as six entirely different things and then what we dig down underneath and it doesn't mean necessarily we're not going to do the other stuff it's just really what's the top priority because remember in another month to six weeks we'll be doing a budget and we're going to try to provide a budget that represents the top priorities so you know I can imagine the flood resilience will be one of the topics that isn't on there now or you know who knows what else they might be and again it's I it's yours not ours we'll we'll have staff people to answer questions and provide information about what we're doing on certain things but really it's up for you to say these are the most important issues and some of the big projects and things we want to see to move them forward so you know I mean we wouldn't expect you to get down in the weeds and say you know we're going to clean five miles of sidewalk every week or those kind of things you know we would say we want to have a clean downtown area that will be up to us to put the meme on that and you're just going to say these are things that are important. I agree that it won't finish in one night it might take longer but I think it's a good start especially if we had a chance to talk about our priorities then when we make a decision we will have some kind of like a I will say guideline right yeah we are saying yes or no because we already discuss and talk about our priorities and what's the most important thing at least for this year for us so I mean the highlight the thing about next week is going to be that you don't have anything else to the agenda so it's your time it's really one time that you have to spend entire evening just talking about what's important to you not other stuff and so with with someone who can help facilitate the meeting so the American you know participate as a member without having around a meeting and you know someone who knows the community knows the issues and then you know we have you know might take the next meeting might take the meeting after that to finalize it you know it's get another special meeting if you're you know it's really it's it's important you know as I said everything's a little bit behind we probably would have normally done this you know started it in September or so and be finishing it now but try to you know I don't we're not going to try to jam everything in if you don't feel like you're done at the end it's that's fine you know it's it's but hopefully we'll at least have some of the big work from the so where we're trying to get to and then how we get there the airplane flight right you know where do we want we want to go how fast we want to get there how much we want to spend so uh can I can I say yeah uh when um in the past when you had that kind of workshop for so that plane have you invited uh committee chairs excuse me have you invited committee chairs to the committee chairs when you have a we have done it both ways we have invited one time we invited committee chairs um and it was really unwieldy I don't know that we would choose it was nice but it was also really okay um a lot of people um so usually I think what we've tried to do is if there are committee priorities have them come in through the council route to those areas okay and bring them in that way and you know staff you will it's not our place to tell you what your priorities are doing but it's you know we could like if someone would ask you know so say public safety was a topic you might say chief what are your top priorities for your department this year and you know or you might say you know what issues are you seeing with whatever and drugs and what can we do to support that is is that a big problem should that be a high priority for us or not you know and then in the end of the day you you have to respond to what you're we're here to be your resources but not but there also doesn't mean that just because it doesn't end up on your top list that he's not going to do drug enforcement it just means that maybe we're not going to put extra budget money and extra resources and all that sort of thing you do it because it's such a huge problem that it's going to be a top priority one example Donna it's a couple years we had the council meet and do their priorities and then we had the heads of department to do it separately and then we came together that was very very beneficial I really appreciated that interchange and looking at priorities and doables I don't know maybe at that meeting we can decide if we want to do that next step right so um you may recall initially we talked about doing the strategic cleaning meeting tonight and we have we have our team meeting is next week so that the original players we were going to be doing the strategic cleaning with you all tonight and then we were going to and then come back at a future meeting so we're we'll probably be laying out the team will be laying out its sets of priorities next Wednesday those will be available for you I think most people will attend I think we understand it's not staffs I mean I probably weigh in but you know it's not really staff unless you want to hear from them but they'll be there because everyone's interested in what you have to say right so and if there's a follow-up you know we want to engage in a way that's helpful to the council not telling the council what you need to do but on the other hand there's things you don't know right so you know there's you have a sense there's an issue with something you want to know more about so very would it be possible at this meeting next week we're meeting here right no we're senior center oh at the senior center okay so wherever we meet I'm wondering if it might be possible for that meeting to arrange our tables and our seating so we're all kind of sitting around one table and not you know yelling across to each other no that's why'd you mention that okay so that is possible um in fact Mayor I've talked a little bit about this this really is a council work session and it's it's got to be open to the public it will be you know streamed but typically other than the required public comment at the beginning of the meeting typically the council has just engaged in their own conversation and with staff as invited it's not open public you know because when you have your final plan it will be on the agenda to be approved and discussed in public and people can comment and obviously people can weigh in if they you know to let you know in advance how what they think priorities are this is really intended to be a work session so that even when we've done it in council chambers I mean last year we kind of did it quick but prior we just do it either in the memorial rooms sitting around the table or even we use the council community room we use vlct's conference when we've tried to be in a different place even out of the council chamber and have so that it is a working session yeah this is especially hard with the straight line yeah all right ready to move on okay it is time for council reports okay start on your end all right okay um I don't have much of a report the housing committee is um trying to come up with a criteria that they can use to write rfps and evaluate proposals for housing and they've asked the energy committee they've got priorities for all the other stuff but when it comes to energy they they're at a loss so they've asked the energy committee to do some research on that and we're um we're getting we're getting close it's harder than it sounds they write all they need right now is a general statement um and I think it's going to have something to do with above code priority will be given to above code uh proposals that include above code measures um but then if you need more specificity it gets pretty touchy but anyway I've been sort of buried in energy code for the last couple weeks but we should have something that I'm but it was interesting working with the two committees together it's a good thing to do I think yeah it's been fun so they're good folks thanks Tim I guess if I were to report it's maybe what you all know but it's kind of nice every day to see businesses gradually opening downtown and our first dinner at Julio's Friday night that's kind of cool be back in the old places so I think there's a lot of positive energy downtown and thank everyone for supporting it I know my player foundation my player alive have done a great job distributing funds out that everyone donated in so you know exceeded two million dollars and just it's really impressive and I think we're seeing results for it so thanks I want to share one of the projects Montpelier high school is doing during their annual full harvest celebration this year next Thursday I think it is October 19 high school students will come to downtown and they will help businesses whatever they need from them because their team for this year is community resilience so they are helping their community and helping businesses to recover a little bit more from the flood so I just want to thank Montpelier high school teachers and staff and most importantly students are young generation taking the responsibility and choosing their time to spend with my downtown businesses and helping them so that's all from me thank you here's report I have very close to report I also really appreciate going being downtown being able to see businesses open I've had a family visit two weekends in a row been able to go down have meals do shopping um one of the stores heard businesses they're great praise for counselor he and everything he's done to get his building back and running credit where credit is due it's great that the whole building is open and and really every weekend just about every day new businesses are opening back up and and it's very very encouraging I'll also mention to members of the council that possibly next week there'll be time to do council pictures for the annual report Bill and I talked about that so so dress up get your halloween costume out early yeah yeah we might be a might be doing it next week at our beach before our planning thing and I don't know if we've identified who's going to take the picture but we'll figure that out but I didn't do a bang our job last year whoever has the best of them right and that's all I've got sitting here about the meeting tomorrow and for civil authority the meetings are getting meatier now but I think if we can you know sort of focus in and stay on track we should be done before Thanksgiving great um so I've got a few things actually bear with me I already talked about strategic planning next week at the senior center 530 with meals apparently we have to dress up because we're going to get our pictures taken um while we're in that neighborhood we I did forward to you the engineering the study about 55 Berry Street the rec center Tom Bachman will be here on the 25th to walk through that with us so if you have questions just to get it you know I mean I know you can all read it but it'll be good to have him go you you have forwarded that to us yes us we I can make sure you have it I might have missed it I'll take it yeah um so that's available but again I think having him explain it before we get into the meeting it will be really helpful uh let's see we have some good news some exciting news to announce we will be we're doing some more office moving we're going to move our finance office from the police department back into city hall in part because we're getting heat tomorrow and in part because the air quality in their side of the building is now okay to be back in we are not going to be doing any renovation in that building so it's still going to be the rough floor the rough um sheet rocking and it may or may not be their final place but for now we're moving them back into where they were Montpelier alive is going to move to where Kelly and Evelyn were so they have an independent suite Kelly's going to move into Montpelier alive's office planning is going to then move into the police station where the police where the finance currently is and that will free up the second activity room space at the senior center so both of those will be uh free and uh chief Norton's and I just got to get into he's been really accommodated by having the folks in the the police station you know that means people buzzing in and out and all and actually he's was physically moving the finance people he and chief gowns a couple others were in their shorts and t-shirts and lugging gear so doing whatever it takes and we've got us up so so that is good that will that is one last move hopefully we won't move people again until our final disposition but that is a plus on city hall we had uh we had six firms express interest in the uh in doing the study for the analysis of what needs to be done and and evaluating mitigation versus prevention uh five we're out of walkthrough this week uh Tuesday morning doing the walkthrough to prepare for this and I'm trying to remember when those proposals are due 19 so that's coming right up so we will be evaluating those and then it's that the starting the next phase of really planning what we're going to do with the future of city hall so that would be uh good um we have as you know we've had a hiring freeze I would say we're now amending it to maybe a hiring cool hiring fridge so we will be moving forwards to uh to get a person for the senior center probably around the change of you know around the end of the calendar year we will probably be not probably we will have to hire a person for DPW they are short two people they need at least one of them for the winter we can't we need to hire at least that one and we did hire the new social worker with police and in through barrio which is you know it's been a year and a half trying to find someone so congrats on that so we're still trying to you know we're still working very hard to keep our expenses down one of the reasons why a lot of those projects are showing red is because we've just stopped everything for now but um you know we also have services to run and uh people are expecting their roads to be plowed and they're expecting certain if we're gonna if we're gonna run them we need to run them effectively uh FEMA we met with FEMA today uh we're looks like we're about ready to finalize things with them they will be uh doing their FEMA housing project as we described here in this room a couple weeks ago there's no been no changes I know we talked about possible changes in location and but it's actually going to be as we discussed uh they we are talking with them they will uh not 100 final how this is going to work they are going to do the upsized water line it may be that they just pay us the money to do that as a lease payment instead of doing it themselves uh but that is going to be accommodated um and otherwise that I think they're really gearing up they're trying to finalize we with us and with uh obviously the interim zoning you passed tonight was a big thing they've still got some stuff for the state and to take care of but they're getting ready to move I think they're down to now either 30 or 32 trailers down from 36 so that's that uh office I think that is it other than to say that um you know this emergency of ours really did take uh take hold nationally I was really shocked you know last week I was way at the ICMA conference and thinking I was going to get away from at all and literally every single person I saw I was like how's it going with your flood how's your flood it was so sorry to hear about your community and you know obviously that's a group of people that pay attention to these kind of things but it was amazing from all all even all over the world so people clearly clearly noticed it and they they all told Kelly they saw on the weather channel so um but that was that was a success so anyway that's all I have and uh Sal 940 is that what you had for your over on there I was going to have 10 but we could we could we could stretch for another 20 minutes Sal if you really want could fill us good I'm good okay 9 at 940 we adjourn