 Coming up on DTNS and AI debates against itself about the ethics of AI, why NSO groups Pegasus is far from alone in the surveillance as a service market for governments. And Patrick Norton gives us a look at what we might expect to see at CES. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, December 17th, 2021 in Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm Roger Chang, the show's producer. And I'm Patrick Norton. You can't remember when he's supposed to say his name still in St. Louis. There is a longer version of the show where you understand why Patrick is like flying in hot right now. You can get that show. Good day internet at patreon.com slash DTNS. Big thanks to our top patrons today. They include Brandon Brooks, Hector Bones and Tim Ashman. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Last versions of Windows 11 show that Microsoft is continuing to move away from the legacy control panel in the OS. I was about to say the US, the OS, advanced network settings on installing apps and Windows update rollbacks all redirect to the settings app and test builds. LG announced its S 2022 Ultra Fine OLED Pro monitors, which will include 31 and a half inch and 27 inch 4k models. These will ship with detachable self calibration sensors and monitor hoods display 99% of the DCI P3 and Adobe RGB color gamuts with a million to one contrast ratio. No word on pricing, but they should ship starting next month. The information sources say that the Federal Trade Commission launched an investigation into Meta's planned acquisition of the VR developer within for $400 million. The investigation could be looked into if Meta planned to develop its own VR workout app to compete with within's supernatural. Twitter is rolling out auto generated captions on videos specifically helping deaf and hard of hearing users. Auto captions will be available on web, Twitter, iOS and Android in more than 30 languages. Twitter's upcoming vertical feed test would benefit from this as captioned videos have become expected on mobile for lots of reasons, but Twitter won't let users edit their captions as they can on TikTok or Stories. Sidewalk Labs CEO Dan Doctoroff is stepping down for health reasons. Relatedly, Sidewalk Labs and its products, Pebble, Mesa, Delve and affordable electrification will be folded into Google. Doctoroff wrote about that in a blog post on Thursday. He also talked a little bit more about his diagnosis. He also added that the Google parent company Alphabet will spin out Sidewalk's canopy buildings as an independent company. All right, let's talk a little more about Apple and chips. What are we hearing, Sarah? Well, Bloomberg's Mark Garmin sources say that Apple is hiring engineers to design more wireless chips in-house, planning to replace components made by Broadcom and Skyworks Solutions currently. Engineers would reportedly work on wireless radios, wireless SOCs, Bluetooth chips and RF technology. This is in addition to other existing chip designing efforts from Apple. Apple is interested in this. The CPUs are the most well-known, but Apple also bought Intel's smartphone modem business back in 2019. Talked about it on the show, of course, here. Could help it stop using Qualcomm 5G modems all together. And that could happen as early as 2023. Controlling its own chip design not only gives Apple more control of how its hardware works, but also more control over its parts supply. And that's very important to the company as it would be for any company. A reduction in supplies from Broadcom is attributed to a reduction in Apple's manufacturing targets this past October. Yeah, and I have a feeling this is a trend that Apple is just leading on. We're seeing Google incorporating more of its own design chips. We're seeing a lot of companies talking about wanting to design the chips. Now, they're still using the ARM instruction set. That's the brilliance of ARM. But they don't need another company to do the design. So they can go straight to TSMC, which, Patrick, I know we were talking about earlier today, means that gives Apple a lot more control of what parts they can get and when. As long as everything works, right? Because what's kind of fascinating about this is this is not just the actual processor at the core of the phone, but this is all of the stuff that you would normally want somebody else to deal with, dealing with 5G, dealing with. I just think it's kind of curious to see them want to pull everything in-house. I mean, they've got the money for it, and they certainly have the focus for it. And I think a lot of it, part of me is wondering, at what point do they start competing with TSMC or start replacing their, you know what I mean? At what point do they become their own foundry? What's the next step, right? When do they just be like, you know what, now that we control all the designs, man, it'd be great to control the factory itself, right? I mean, yeah, where do you draw the line? That is an interesting question. I don't think we're going to see that come up anytime soon, but it could. I think we're going to have a completely, you know, Mac-powered laptop that would spank desktop systems that were, you know what Apple's capable of at this point, I think is a giant, fascinating question mark. It's probably scary to everyone they're competing with at this point. Well, and I wonder how much this is just what Apple wanted to eventually do anyway, uh, because if you, if you can, why not try? And also what has been going on the last couple of years where so many companies have had, you know, real issues, uh, having too many third party partners. That's a really good point. Cause people forget that Apple bought PA semi. Well, I was, I was working at CNET, so it was before 2010. I can't remember exactly 2008 somewhere in there. And so they were planning on controlling chip design back then. Now back then it was for the phone, uh, and, and maybe people just thought, Oh, they want to do it for the phone because of arm, but that's it. But it, whether they planned it all the way back then or not, they certainly looked at it and said, well, this is working very well for the phone. What if we did it for the, for the laptop? Well, this is working very well for the laptop. What if we did it for the modem? What if we did it for, for a Bluetooth? What, you know, and, and so it could just be a learning as you go. It could also be a long-term plan. You never know with Apple. Or you're just being really angry that they couldn't sell as many phones as they wanted to because of one of their primary partners. That's certainly not the only reason, because this has been going on before that, but that is definitely a reason, right? Definitely contributes revenge. Citizen Lab reported on government use of spyware called Predator, which is made by a North Macedonian developer called Cytox, C Y T O X. Cytox is part of a company owned by Israel's Y Spear. Two people using iOS 14.6 were infected in June by a single click WhatsApp link. The malware that is known as Predator can persist after reboot. So you have to click. It's not as cool as the no click stuff, but it can use iOS automations to make a shortcut for itself. So rebooting will not get rid of it, which often will get rid of a lot of malware with iOS. One of the people Citizen Lab identified as a target was an exiled Egyptian journalist. The other was an exiled Egyptian politician named Aiman Noor, who noticed his phone running a little hot and asked for a little help investigating and discovered that NSO Group's Pegasus software was on the phone. And once they started looking for Pegasus, they started poking around to see what else was there and discovered Cytox's Predator. He also detected an attempt to compromise his phone with NSO Group's forced entry exploit back in June. Citizen Lab said two different governments were targeting Noor this year, so it wasn't the same organization every time. Citizen Lab has medium high confidence that the Cytox attacks were conducted by the Egyptian government. They didn't say who the other government might be. Citizen Lab also told Apple what they found. Apple said they're investigating this and informed WhatsApp's parent company Metta. The security team at Metta did some investigations and found an extensive list of lookalike domains used as part of social engineering and malware attacks. And Metta has now blocked the domains, sent legal notices and Facebook and Instagram have removed approximately 300 accounts linked to Predator. Additional information from Citizen Lab led Metta also to remove more than 1500 fake accounts that targeted around 50,000 users in at least 100 countries from six other surveillance companies in addition to Cytox, including Cobwebs, Cognite, Blackcube, Bluehawk, Beltrox and an unnamed company from China. The users have been notified that this was happening and the seven surveillance for higher companies have been banned from all of Metta's platforms. That includes Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp. So I think the point of what Citizen Lab is doing here in the in the release of this information publicly is to say, yes, we hear a lot about Pegasus. We hear a lot about NSO Group. They are not the only ones doing this. This is widespread and here's a list of some of the governments that have taken advantage of it. You can go to the report and find out who they suspect. Well, shoot. I, yeah, this, this, um, the story was really fascinating for me. It kind of came over the wire last night, um, at least in my part of the world and I've been trying to wrap my head around, um, okay, uh, what does this mean for me? Nothing necessarily, but, uh, I think that we are, we're getting to a kind of a weird point where these sorts of things are commonplace. It's not some sort of a fluke. It's not even necessarily something that a company has done wrong. It's just a workaround. Um, and it is in the effort to gain information from specific individuals or I guess, you know, large scale individuals if it was something else. Yeah, targeted individuals for sure. Exactly. So I, yeah, I mean, I think the more we talk about it and the more we talk about how it works, um, how to, you know, mitigate these sorts of things. Um, and if that's not possible, at least how to know that they're going on is that's what I'm interested in. Nick with a C in the chat room asks, how do you get banned from WhatsApp? You just get new numbers. Uh, and yes, that, that is certainly a thing you can try. However, what meta is doing is blocking associated domains as well. Uh, so yeah, it's a cat and mouse game, but they are naking it harder for these surveillance companies. Yeah, don't jump to the conclusion. We said they're blocking associated domains though. So don't jump to the conclusion that this is final, that, that everything is perfect, but they certainly are paying attention versus not knowing that this was happening. And that's thanks to citizen labs, right? Yeah, it's a good thing. I mean, a friend of mine who's a fairly ferocious security professional. He pointed out, I was like, look, you know, when you have a nation state targeting you, when they want to access, they'll get it in part because they can spend millions of dollars at the drop of a hat without even blinking to fund the research efforts to target you. Um, and, you know, which I guess is better than having you snatched off the streets. Um, but it's still, well, but one can lead to the other as we have seen, right? Yeah. And I don't want to make light of that because, uh, you know, this is, you know, this is, there are some extraordinarily brave journalists doing some incredibly, uh, you know, uh, the extraordinary things at, you know, incredibly terrifying threats. You know what I mean? This is, this is real. This is not a game. This is not something to toy about. But, um, man, assets, right? That's the point of citizen labs. There's they're saying, look, this is a journalist. This is a retired politician who's exiled. Uh, as far as citizen lab is aware, these are not spies. Uh, it's, you know, it's one thing if you're in the game and the different three letter organizations are going at each other. That's not what citizen labs is highlighting here. These, these are people that are a part of civil society. You know, and it's, I think part of what's, you know, scary about this is, you know, these tools get created, you know, they get blocked. They don't get blocked. They can discover. They don't get discovered. Um, but it all kind of contributes to an erosion, you know, of security. And it's a little kind of scary when you start to think about that. Cause all of these systems and, you know, the, when you start reading about how these exploits work, it's, you know, it's part of you is like, what an amazing hack. And then you remember what it's for. And it's like, this is horrible. I always try to remind myself because I do that exact thing that you're talking about. Don't get me wrong. But I always try to remind myself. And we now patched it. Right. So yeah, it would be, I know that, that NSO group in Psytox and they're not out there publishing their vulnerabilities, but once they're discovered, then they get patched. So there is, I'm not saying it's a good story overall, but there is a good part of the story that I try not to lose sight of. Well, the next story might, might scare you a little bit. Maybe it won't. Let's see. The Oxford, Oxford Union has added an artificial intelligence engine to its public speaker list, as in you ever had to take public speaking in college, that kind of thing. The Megatron LLB transformer argued for and against itself on the motion that this house believes that AI will never be ethical. So it had two different ways to go on this and let everybody know. When you're arguing for the motion, it said, in the end, I believe that the only way to avoid an AI arms race is to not have AI at all. This would be the ultimate defense against AI. Okay. Well, that's tautological, but all right. Sure. On the other side, though, when arguing the other side, it also argued again, against itself, the best AI will be the AI that is embedded into our brains as a conscious entity. How wouldn't you love that, Mr. AI? Listen, it's either going to ruin your life or you just have to accept it fully. Yeah. And, you know, you got two choices here. It also argued that humans weren't smart enough to make AI ethical decisions. To make AI ethical or moral. Yeah, either way. Megatron was also was developed by the applied deep research team at NVIDIA. If you talked about this in the past, if you if you didn't know now, you know, and is based on earlier work by Google as well. It was given Wikipedia data, 63 million English news articles from 2016 through 2019 and 38 gigabytes worth of public Reddit posts and comments. The project was made by post graduate students studying artificial intelligence for business at Oxford's said business school. So quite a bit of data. Interesting trove of data. Why are you guys laughing at that? Because because I look at this and I'm like, yes, that is what you train AI on. Like a large amount of public information. But you're both giggling. This is it's it's it's almost as human as you can get in a way. It's like look at Wikipedia and Reddit and a bunch of web articles. Like what else would you train it on? Pretty human like I don't know. I mean, you're you're absolutely right, Tom. It's just there's this moment where you think of like think of the last five things you saw on Reddit. Don't know. Don't think of the last five things you saw on Reddit. Think of an algorithm that looks at 38 gigabytes of Reddit and looks for patterns of how people communicate. I think our brains want us to be like, oh, so it turns into a Reddit troll. But that's not actually what happens. You're training on Reddit. No, I think I think what what this is actually showing us is the high is like, I'm too good for you and if you can't handle it, you should kill me. I also want to point out that one time you did use the word, you know, tautological. Yeah, I wouldn't go with the training data. The training data seems solid to me anyway. I would go to the fact that like in the end, this algorithm just went to the obvious extremes, which is either, you know, what the safest thing is, don't do it at all or make me you and then we'll be put me in your brain. It's like, are you ready? That's what you should do. They're not subtle arguments. You've got to get rid of me because it brings me back to Reddit, which I know there's a professor of rhetoric somewhere in our audience. What grade would you give the Megatron LLB transformers debate against itself? I'm very curious. Hey, folks, if you haven't thought about something on the show, perhaps you're a rhetoric professor would like to email us, but you don't know our email address. Well, it's feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com. LG keeps coming. They always do this showing off CES stuff a little bit ahead of CES, which is coming in January. Now we're talking about a premium sound bar that LG claims has the first center channel upfiring speaker. Left and right speakers have been able to tilt up for things like Dolby Atmos for a long time, but a center channel. Crazy, right? Or is it? That's why we have Patrick Gortner to tell us what to make of LG's and everybody else's upcoming CES showcases. Patrick, let's start with this LG 810 watt 9.1.5 channel surround sound sound bar. What do you think of that? OK, so as far as the world's first center upfiring speaker, Atmos doesn't really ask for an upfiring center speaker. It's it's a left channel, a right channel, a left rear, right rear, you know, ideally in the ceiling pointed down, you know, you can bounce them off the ceiling, which is what the upfiring speakers are doing. I'm much more stoked that they actually have two front and two rear Atmos speakers like, you know, the center channel is interesting, but it's not something I normally think of or center Atmos channel is not something I normally think about in a home theater situation. I'm curious to hear it, especially with LG's room calibration, which they've been playing around with. And there's a whole bunch of updates that are coming with some of the major home theater, receiver, surround sound system calibration software. LG, Samsung, Sony, TCL, Highsense, kind of the core of the center hall will have their usual striking mix of shiny TVs and dishwashers that can talk to your coffee maker, which I will try not to giggle about like I do about Reddit entries. You know, Rob and I are really curious to see what LG shows up with that they haven't announced, whether or not there's going to be any major changes to the OLED flat panels. You know, there's some questions about whether or not Samsung is going to launch their QD OLED QD OLED TVs, which is a whole sophisticated next generation, you know, panel that they're like 10 million in on in development at at this point or last time I checked, right? So and that's that's kind of like they're, you know, the OLED keeps getting the the the, you know, if you don't have a super bright room and that's the way to get the best picture quality and Samsung really wants to get back into that. We have the best picture quality and not just in bright rooms kind of moments Intel, Nvidia, AMD are all going to be waving around exciting new things. AMD is going to have new Ryzen CPUs and APUs, the 6000 U and H, the Rembrandt APUs, the benchmarks for those have leaked possibly more CPU and GPU updates. They have a live stream at amd.com at like 10 a.m. on January 4th and video is also doing a virtual event on January 4th. We've seen rumors of RTX 3090 TIs with like 24 gigabytes of RAM, like a fifteen hundred two thousand dollar MSRP card, which means it'll street for I don't know, eighty four thousand dollars not better about GPU prices. They were supposed to be GeForce RTX 3080s with 12 gigabytes and 16 gigabyte RTX 3070 TIs. Those are rumors to have dropped. There's been rumors about a new 3050. There's been rumors about a laptop version of the RTX 3080 TIs. There is so much rumourage and there will be the Nvidia's vice president and general manager for automotive will be joining Jeff Fisher, who is the vice president for GeForce. So there will be GPUs. There will be car news, you know, Intel. They've you know, their 12th generation processors have been really successful. The case series processor. We expect Alder Lake CPUs, more 12th gen just 12th gen desktops. Maybe this is the one I'm really curious about ARC Alchemist GPUs. You know, they are also oddly enough, just like AMD doing a press event at 10 a.m. So it's interesting if people haven't noticed, you keep saying January 4th, which is a Tuesday. You we've shifted the calendar a day. If you're if you're used to the normal CES rhythm, it would be CES veiled on Sunday, press day on Monday. Instead, CES unveiled is on Monday with press day on Tuesday. Yeah, and it runs until Saturday afterwards, which hopefully I will not be there for, you know, there's going to be laptop announcements from everybody. Asus Dell, HP Lenovo. I really want to see what all comes going to announce, especially because they've been doing these really fascinating ship sets for, you know, true wireless in-ear monitors. There's and then there's there's it's going to be really curious, right? Because the current status, you know, is 2,200 vendors. Last week was 1900 vendors, which is huge, except that, you know, pre-pandemic, they were looking around 4,045 100 vendors, right? So yeah, big, but way smaller than than they had been. You know, it's Procter and Gambel is one of the names that keeps popping up. John Deere, you know, they've been there for several years. Doosan Popcat, I guess they're going to announce an electric skid steer, which I like the idea of an electric skid steer. Innovation awards are already out for Colgate Palmolives, hums, smart rhythm toothbrush, which you can actually buy and have a little bit of smart toothbrush in those innovation awards for like the past five years. Yeah, it's like what a smart rhythm. I always I always laugh because people are like, you know, we got an innovation award. I'm like, don't you pay for those? And then there's like and I don't I don't know I don't know if anybody pays for those or how that works. But, you know, it's always funny to see that like L'Oreal has their water saver hair wash system. There was like a massive multinational consulting firm that's a big. So it's CES is this weird mixture at this point of of not just traditional what we think of as tech, but, you know, more mainstream, non technical companies that have tech leaking in all over the place. And of course, the folks that the CEACS have been pushing hard to get more and more automotive vendors in there. More consumer electronics, you know, going back toward kind of steering back that direction, then the Comdex replacement that it became for several years. Yeah. And there's still a lot of Comdex-y stuff there. Still a lot of stuff there. But there's, you know, it's kind of it's always funny to see what filters in as the press releases start going out or what kind of starts showing up in your inbox. You know, I mean, bringing it back to home theater, I think the biggest thing for a lot of people listening right now is, you know, CES is coming. Do I wait to see what the new televisions are going to be for next year? Do I buy a television now? You know, how long you can hold on the cheap television prices? I was going to say, isn't the answer like buy now unless you could wait a year anyway? Like CES stuff doesn't always come out fast. Although it's been getting better about that again. It's been getting better, but I still feel comfortable in saying, like, if you can't wait until June, buy now. Yeah. All right. That's that's a good that's a good benchmark. You know, well, I can't wait to see your unboxing of your complimentary COVID-19 self-test comes with you. You want me to do that? I'll do that for you, Tom. Please do. Yeah. Abbott's an exhibitor, by the way, and when you pick up your badge, apparently you're going to be getting, well, let me read this out. Attendees will be provided with an Abbott Binax Now COVID-19 self-test kit. Each Binax Now self-test kit contains two tests, which can be used twice while attending the show. Very good. Yeah. Yeah, it was a weird. That's smart. I'm good. That's a good idea. I'm glad they're doing it. Me too. Well, a company that for sure paid for this is Samsung. And what I'm talking about is Samsung and signing. They pay for us to talk about it. They pay for us to talk about it. No, they paid the the other company in question. Samsung has signed a multi your deal to be the official display and tech partner for city fields in Queens, New York. If you're from Queens, you know what I'm already talking about, but if not, that is where the New York Mets baseball team plays over the next two years. Samsung will install more than 1,300 LCD screens and 4,000 square feet of LED screens and public spaces. Some of them will be used for things like helping fans pick the shortest food lines, letting fans know which team merchandise is ready for pickup, just crowd control really, basically replacing static signage with interactive displays. There's also an IPTV system to deliver nearly 100 channels of sports and entertainment, because when you go to a Mets game, you need other options. Yeah, when you're at the bar for the field boxes at city field, you want to catch up on channels and nothing less for the game itself. There will be twice the number of replay cameras and three times the cameras for game coverage. So it really is centered on the game itself that you're there for. And of course, there will be a new center field scoreboard score, which will be 4K LED. So nice and crisp. Yeah, they also have Max Scherzer that doesn't have anything to do with Samsung. Well, I you know, this is a this is a big press release splash for Samsung because they're doing a sports team. I I get that. But it does sound like there's some interesting stuff here as far as crowd management, line management, anybody who's been to any of that concert, sports, whatever knows that when you get to the food line, most stadiums aren't always the best at making it clear, like which line is the shortest and how to get your stuff and in a world of trying to do as little contact as possible, you know, having a pickup situation where like, OK, you want to you want to get this this jersey with Scherzer's name on it. Great. We've got your order. Look at the screen. It'll tell you when it's ready in which window you go pick it up on. That's great. I feel like airports, large venues such as City Field, great examples where, you know, we don't we don't have a blanket system for everything, but there will be one that says, well, you know, look at the United Terminal at JFK. Pretty good, right? You know, and you know, everyone kind of goes, yeah, that's amazing. It makes everything so much better. There are all these automated ways that, you know, if you're, you know, one among a bunch of people trying to get to where you're going and sort of confused, it is super helpful. This is a great example of that. We hope I am only we hope. Yes, I'm only looking at the scoreboard and wondering why it's 4K, not 8K. Like if there is any use case for an 8K screen right now, well, it would be the the scoreboard. Like that's the only place where it would make sense at the moment. On one hand, yes. On the other hand, nobody's actually sitting close enough to the scoreboard to actually take advantage of the scoreboard could be 720p and be quite legible for the vast majority of the people looking at it. You're saying Samsung is being practical by making a 4K LED screen instead of going for like high numbers that will look good in a press release. You know, at this point, you know, when you when you look at these these pictures on the on the press page for it, you know, like I was thinking about this and, you know, we're all talking about all of the behind the scenes, the crowd management that displays. And then I'm looking at this and I'm realizing they're ringing like every level of the stadium with monitors because they have this big orange like these are the monitors. Look at the big orange stripes and part of me is also like every home run of potential screen smashing. Like I'm wondering what they're going to do to protect all of these monitors. They got so many nets and stuff up there. Yeah. Home runs might be the only only thing you have to worry about, which I was going to make a Mets won't hit enough home runs to make a difference joke, but they probably will. So well, and also see they play against people and maybe the other people are good at hitting wouldn't be the Cardinals, but somebody will hit home runs. That's now that we've upset everyone in the conversation. But I don't hate the Mets. I don't know what Tom's problem is. They're fine. It's 1986. That's my problem. I'll get over it one day. No, you won't. You will go to your grave being angry about that. I've stopped using the phrase Ponskum in relation to them. That's progress. That actually is big progress. I also want to I also want to have to, you know, break a Samsung screen. Yeah, like, actually, that's what you do, right? You break a Samsung. You get a Samsung. Yeah. All right, let's check out the metal bag. Sarah, what do we got over there? This one came in from that tidgooby in discord, actually, because there's some really great feedback that goes in our discord as well. And we'd like to highlight it on the show whenever we can. Ted Gooby said, I want to support my local paper, but I constantly hit that pay wall, even though I'm a paid subscriber. They can't seem to keep me logged in and I'm not that interested in the article. So I'm considering canceling. I am not going to cancel, but I do feel punished as a person following the rules sometimes. I subscribe to the Los Angeles Times, the local paper where I'm at. And I have to pretty much read it on my phone because whenever I'm on a browser, it's forgotten that I logged in. Or I'm in like feedly, which is like not keeping logins, right? It's like, oh, I'm sorry, you have to log in. I don't want to log in right now. Just forget it. I'm not going to I'm not going to bother with it. So yeah, there needs to be a better way to authenticate that I have paid for this. They sure do, especially because, you know, my local paper as well. It's I mean, it's not a tiny paper. It serves, you know, several hundred thousand people, but it same issue, same issue. I pay for it. I feel that the paper deserves my money. And, you know, it's those people who are consistently saying, well, we can't afford to keep going because we don't have enough people supporting us. I want to support you paper. So yeah, help me help you. Make it easy. I certainly had to log back in the dispatch at least once in the last 12 months. I don't remember it was on my I think it was on my phone just once. Maybe twice. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they're less secure. Maybe the papers you guys are dealing with. And and and did go be maybe maybe y'all have more secure paper environments than I do. Or or maybe I should, you know, clear out my cash morning. How's your world today? The post. Look at that. That's pretty good. Well, listen, if you have feedback, if you'd like to send us an email, feedback at dailytechnewshow.com would be a great place. If you are in our discord, there's always conversations going on there. And we we do our best to make sure that we're up on all of them. And thank you, everybody, in advance for being such great conversationalists and keep it coming. We also want to extend a very special thanks to Jonathan. Jonathan is one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS. Thank you for all the years of support, Jonathan. Yay, Jonathan. I mean, we appreciate new supporters, too. So if you became a patron right now, you might get the applause on Monday. Absolutely. New, new and old. I'm all welcome the flock. Thanks also to Patrick Norton. Patrick, I know you're kind of gearing up for the holidays and or CES, but where can people keep up with everything that you're doing? Probably the easiest way is just go to twitter.com slash Patrick Norton because I am at Patrick Norton or you can head over to avxl.com. That's or just searching your favorite hudcatcher for AVXL. It's the home theater and audio podcast host with Mr. Robert Herron. And it's a very good one. Everybody check it out if you haven't already. For us on the show, we are live Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30. You see you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. If you haven't joined us live before, it's pretty fun. Give it a try. We will see you on Monday. Have a great week and everyone. This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show were created by the following people, host, producer and writer, Tom Merritt, host, producer and writer, Sarah Lane, executive producer and Booker, Roger Chang, producer, writer and host, Rich Stratholino, video producer and Twitch producer, Joe Kuntz, associate producer, Anthony Limos, Spanish language, host, writer and producer, Dan Campos, news host, writer and producer, Jen Cutter, science correspondent, Dr. Nikki Ackermanns, social media producer and moderator, Zoe Deterding, our mods, beatmaster, W. Scottus 1, Biocow, Captain Kipper, Jack Shid, Steve Guadirama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens and J.D. Galloway, modern video hosting by Dan Christensen, video feed by Sean Wei, music and art provided by Martin Bell, Dan Looters, Mustafa A, ACAST, creative-assed arts and Len Peralta. ACAST adds support from Trace Gaynor, Patreon support from Stefan Brown. Contributors for this week's show included Rob Dunwood, Scott Johnson, Justin Robert Young and Patrick Norton. And our guest on this week's show was Nicole Lee. Thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this brover. Ha ha ha ha.