 Eating small meals throughout the day doesn't help with fat loss, but it can definitely help with bulking. If you're bulking, try eating small meals throughout the day. It's so funny how small meals were sold one way, but in reality it actually works a lot better the other way, because that's where it makes the most sense, right? You're trying to eat, you know, 3,500 calories. That's like, you know, what is that? 1,200 calories a meal or something like that if you eat three meals. Those are huge meals after a while. You're really trying to stack it up. Yeah, and you get bloated and you feel, you know, digestive issues or whatever. It makes more sense to turn that into like five smaller meals. For fat loss, it doesn't really, you know, help that much except for maybe somebody's, you know, behaviors benefiting, but that's also, you know, yes or no sometimes. But when it comes to bulking, I think small meals is kind of a staple, especially when your calories are really high or trying to eat a really high protein intake. You know, this was, I don't know if you remember when we first started the show, this was my biggest gripe when we would talk about this, right? So obviously you would lead the show with presenting that, you know, the whole small meals myth has been debunked. And there's, you know, whether you eat one meal or two meal. And I was right in the thick of preparing for bodybuilding shows. You're eating like 4,500 calories. Yeah, like you're literally poking right at me. I'm eating six meals a day. And yeah, you know, so I'm carrying all this Tupperware around. And so people are probably going like, you know, with the salad saying this small meal thing is ridiculous. And yet here's Adam carrying all this around. And I remember my argument was, dude, try eating 5,000 calories in two meals, like just and clean, like that's not happening. Just, I don't know anybody that does that. Even some of the biggest bodybuilders that eat tons of food, like they just had to portion it out in six meals throughout the day. And even those are decently sized when you're crushing 4,000 or 5,000 calories. So, yeah, I have found that the only the value that, and I will say the value for someone who's trying to lose weight that I still found in it, even though what the research clearly shows that there is no benefit metabolically to breaking it up over six versus one or two meals. But what it what it showed clients was portion control and that part of the weight loss and meal prepping. Yeah, there could be some behavior in discipline, right? And like putting it together and preparing it ahead time. Yeah, and seeing what, you know, 8 grams of protein looks like and what, you know, 40 grams of carbohydrates look like and getting an understanding of that, you know, having that many meals consistently prepared and breaking them up kind of and then like, you know, you eat that and you're done. You don't just keep eating until your stuff. Like I think that that was a good behavioral thing, even for someone who's trying to lose weight. I mean, you gotta admit though, right? For bulking it's definitely like way more value. Way more value, yeah. Way more value. I mean, you're trying to eat, you know, if you're a female and you're trying to eat, you know, 140 grams of protein a day or a man, you're trying to eat 200 grams of protein a day. Like that's really hard to do in three meals. It's super satiating to eat like a 50, 60, 70 gram protein for women 35 grams of protein a meal. That's really tough, but if you break it up into smaller meals, now it's more possible. And that becomes a challenge, right? I'm kind of going through that right now. I've been kind of on the slight bulk now for a little while. Gut health is still good, so I'm kind of pushing it and see what can happen. And there's no way that I could bulk with three meals a day. They would be so big and so uncomfortable and I'd feel so terrible. I have to eat five kind of meals a day in order to make this, you know, kind of possible. Well, the original way they were selling it was very misleading. It was very much like the thermogenic effect of food and like eating these small meals was like stoking the fire and like you would burn, you know, more fat with this type of an approach. And so that's just kind of like the information we got coming up as coaches. And I think that's why initially we were like, okay, we got at least like put, you know, an opposite position to this. Yeah. And it's funny because the bodybuilding space has contributed a lot to the fitness space because the bodybuilding space was really the first kind of strength space that tried to apply, tried to apply science to nutrition and to dieting, that kind of stuff. And bodybuilders have been eating small meals for a while now. And so what they did, what the fitness space did is they took what bodybuilders did and the reason why bodybuilders did this was exactly what we're talking about. They were eating 4,000 calories a day, 3,500 calories, 5,000 calories. High calorie meals. And you got to eat small meals throughout the day to do that or multiple meals, I should say, you know, more than three meals a day in order to make that happen. So what the fitness space did is they took that and since the average gym, you know, consumer, the average person who wants to work out, not a bodybuilder, but the average person, they're interested in fat loss. They're not interested in building tons of muscle. They're not interested in being shredded on stage. They want to lose weight. So what they did is they took this thing that bodybuilders did, which was they had to do to eat this many calories and grams of protein and they twisted it and made up some stuff to sell it to people who want to lose weight when that's totally false. Behaviorally, it may contribute and it depends on the person because I can also, I also know people that small meals hurt them when it came to weight loss because it was easier for them to not or to skip meals. But when it comes to bulking, I mean, just pragmatically for a lot of people, it just makes sense. And that's the real application. That's where I think it makes the most sense. What's up, everybody? Today's giveaway, maps, anabolic. The first maps program. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If we like your comment, if we think you're the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, these are the final hours for our January promotion. These three workout bundles are on sale right now. $300 or more off. Up to nine months of planned workouts. All set up, great discounted prices. But again, these are the final hours if you're catching this episode when it drops. So if you're lucky, you got here in time. You want to take advantage. Just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. A little off topic, but I wanted to ask you because you brought it up in our thread. We haven't talked since then. You found out the UPS guy was a listener? Oh, dude. So cool, right? How did that happen? Well, no, so I've known him. I know that he's a listener for a while. So, you know, he drops off packages. What kind of packages? Sex toys like fourth time this week. Sexes box and vibrating. What is this guy? What's going on? Is this for you? Every day. No, no, no. He drops off packages and one day he came and said, oh, I love your show or whatever. So I was like, cool. And I met him. Well, anyway, every time he comes by, I say hi to him because he delivers packages in the neighborhood. Yesterday I'm outside with Aurelius and we're playing outside and the UPS guy comes and he's delivering something to one of my neighbors. So I'm like, hey, I'm like, you mind if we look in the back of your truck because my son's like super into cars and trucks. And he's like, sure. So we go back there and he opens up the back and it's just super pumped and excited. He's checking it out. And anyway, I met this guy. His name is Dustin, super cool guy. And he was talking about how he got the rest of the crew over at UPS to listen to the show. So give him a shout out. Super, super nice guy. Does Jiu Jitsu and he was asking me. Probably a great cab. Do you tell him about your purple belt? Huh? No. It's not even. I'm a white belt now, dude. You know how long it's been? Do you lose belt? You can't lose belts, right? That's not how it works. My skill level's gone, dude. I know, but if you were to go back at it, they wouldn't put you back down, right? You automatically get this stuff. I would put myself back down, right? I would probably have my pro card, but I would never go get back on a pro stage right now. That's what I mean. But I mean, how long it's been? I was doing the math the other day. How long it's been since I've trained? It's been like 15 years. Wow. A long time. Wow. So yeah, no. I had a purple belt. Speaking of Aurelius, I gotta tell you guys, so funny. So he went to my parents' house the other day. Loves hanging out with my parents. He always has fun. When he comes home, he's always like, none of this house fun. Aurelius has fun. He's so excited. Anyway, I go over there to pick him up. And my parents are speaking to each other and to me in Sicilian, okay? Which Aurelius doesn't understand. So they're speaking to me and Aurelius is eating. And then he looks at us and he goes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he'd be down, blah, blah, blah. Are you speaking? Are you trying to speak Sicilian? He's speaking family guy Italian, dude. He did the hand signals and everything like my parents. Oh, bro, we were dying. So classic. I'm like, what did none of this say? And he's like, baby, baby. So I wonder what, okay. So that's interesting. You bring that up because there is, I'll have to ask Katrina which ones they are, but there's two or three cartoons that Max prefers to watch in Spanish. It is the funniest thing ever. And if you try and change it, it gets pissed. And so Katrina's like, okay, whatever. If he wants to listen to it in Spanish, we'll let him listen to it in Spanish. And it's only, it's only, that's what we figure. It's like, okay, well, if he wants to, I'm not going to not let him do that. So of course you can listen to it, but it's only like, there's like two of them. I think I'll ask her which ones they are, but for some reason. Has he picked up any words or anything? Not that I know. Not that I have noticed. I mean, he's still barely getting like, he's like, he's still, I mean, he was behind on his speech. And so he's still for his age, because I remember my best friend, someone who's at this age, was saying things a lot more clear than he was. He still is not putting like, consistently full sentences that all makes sense, which is the, you know, the fun part. Cause the stuff doesn't always make complete sense that you're trying to figure out. Yeah, I really see something new every day. And I don't even know where he hears half the shit. Like he was, he was in a blanket the other day and he's like, oh, but it's so cozy. I'm like, what? Cozy. Like who says cozy in the house? He says stuff like that all the time. Makes you realize that they hear everything that you say. Oh, he said shit. I didn't tell you guys. Oh, he cussed. See, Max isn't cussed yet. Bro, he draws. That's like, I'm proud of us. No, no. You know how he did it? He did it the way I do it. Cause I think he can't hear me. So he dropped something and he's like playing and he whispered it. He goes, shit. I'm like, like Jessica, I think he just said shit. Here's what he's saying. You know what I'm going through right now? So this phase we're at is really interesting. And I, and I, I definitely noticed a difference when he gets to go to school and when he doesn't, he is going through a really aggressive physical phase now with me. Like he's always kind of wrestled and we play. And a lot of that I feel like was me, you know, I, you know, kind of mess with him where now, and I had to catch myself because I'll come home and I might be doing something still work wise or working on something at the house and putting things together at the new place. And so, and he'll just, I don't know where, off the couch, just like jump on the back of my neck and face rake me and like stick his fingers in my eyeball and in my nose. And like, he just, you teach him all the dirt. Bro, he's like, he's very physical and aggressive right now that, and he hasn't had that. I took a treat. I'm like, man, he's more than usual. And what I think I'm actually connecting it to, aside from he's kind of probably just going through this phases, it is definitely more when he doesn't go to school because we've been in this transition from moving from the other town to this one. And so he's been out of school more the last two or three weeks. And if I come home, yeah. And he hasn't got that playground energy out. Oh boy, that's the, he don't even say hi to me. It's as soon as I walk in the door, it's like, it hits me right in the nuts. Yeah. And then it's like on, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I cannot get, I cannot get him to stop. That's the worst. I made, I really was throwing his toy cars and one of them hit me in the nuts. And I went, oh, and I, you should never. Yeah. Cause now you got a reaction. Yes. So now he knows that's where I aim. So he'll walk up to me while I'm doing something with a toy. And if I don't see him, he aims directly for my nuts every time. And he, and it's like, I'm so happy for Everett's birthday. I think I told you guys, I don't think I told on the show, but we got him this punching bag of one of those guys. It's like, you know, a torso and then just a face. And so I put that downstairs and this is like working famously. Cause I knew I'm like, dude, if he's anything like I was where it's like, you get frustrated and he's, he's going through the spell of like, he just wants to like just resist and rebel like almost anything that you're going to promote to him. You know, it's like any kind of schoolwork, any kind of like going to gymnastics or doing anything that like he's not doing right then. And he's just like, you know, I'm like, okay, go beat up Chad. He named him already. He named him Chad. He named him Chad. He goes down there and you listen to it. He's just like beating the shit out of this thing. I love it. Cause it's like, it's so worse, you know? He comes up and then he's just chill. And he's like, maybe we should get one of those hair for Justin. We should. We're going to get you a Chad bro. Go talk to Chad for a little bit, Justin. I've already buried that, that angle a long time ago. Let it out everyone. We might need to get like a really strong one though. You guys want me to surface it. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just, that's why we don't want you to use psychedelics. God knows what to come out of it. You hit the wrong. You start choking out a shaman. You wanted me to release this. It's out. Hey, speaking of psychedelics, we're, what's the, you know, you were pretty good about updating us on a pretty regular basis on the legislation that was going on and like, are they making any new moves? I mean, you were, you were an owner of Compass. I know you had their stuff before. I still have some of their stock. So ketamine therapy is now legal in, I know here in California. Wow. So you can actually get. I've never tried that before and I've been told to. I've never, I mean, I haven't either. So I actually talked to a therapist who's an expert. She doesn't do the ketamine therapy, but she's works with it and is familiar with it. And she says that what it does is it allows the brain to rewire thought patterns so that you can overcome these kinds of automatic thought loops or. So how does she compare it then to psilocybin? Cause I feel like that's what psilocybin does. They all do that to an extent, but they're all different, right? Yeah. MDMA psilocybin, both I've experienced both I've used like in the relationship therapeutic like way. And they do have a similar yet different feeling from. Yeah. That's a really good question. Adam, cause I'm not quite sure. I know that they work similarly from what they see, but they're obviously different. Yeah. I thought, I thought ketamine was kind of, I don't know. I mean tranquilizer. Oh yeah. I thought it was more like an opiate is what I was going to say. Something that's more sedative. I don't know. Cause MDMA is obviously not sedative. No. So the way she explained it is she's so, so she has experience with it. She had a severe fear of flying. And she said after one session, she can get on a plane now. She couldn't get on a plane. And after a session, she can get on a plane. So the way it was, and there's literally places in San Jose that you can go to. So the way she explained it to me is you meet with a doctor slash therapist. I think they do a session with you. Then they give you the ketamine to take home. And it's in a, I think it's called a trout, a trout. I don't know how to pronounce it. T R O U C H E. So I don't know how to pronounce that. Trouche. Yeah. Trouche. Trouche. It's a French word. It's Trouche. But anyway, you take it home. I think you call them, then you write in a journal, you put it, you take it and you make sure you have a sitter. They say you have to have a sitter. So someone kind of is going to get your water and whatever. You take it, you lay down and then once it starts to kick in, you sit up and you write and you think you have to have an intention. Like I want to process this. I want to process that. And that's it. You take it home. Okay. So there's places here. Does that mean it's anything? No. You go home and you think about... It's not illegal, Sal? No, it's legal. I didn't know that. It's legal for this, for therapy. Well, especially like, they allow you to go home with it. Yeah. That sounds crazy. Like a big step. Yeah. I mean, legally... There's a website. I could find the website. Yeah. I mean, so legally could we do it and then like do it on an episode or something? Or we'd have to actually have... No, no, no. You got it, bro. You can't just go do it. Psychological issue. Yeah. Justin, you qualify for 15 sessions. According to what you told us. Yeah, that's cool. I'm just gonna be angry. But anyway, that's what's happening right now. And I think that's what the way it needs to be. These things need to be used because you also look at the research and it can as effective as it can be for helping people with certain issues. It can also trigger and send people into terrible anxiety. And it can create PTSD. And it could also be very addictive as I've seen in our space, the people that... Psychologically addictive. Yeah. I mean, I could see how that happens. I mean, I in the last, what, few years introduced Katrina to it. And, you know, one of the things that we notice is every time... So in five years, we've probably done it four or five times. So once a year, I'd say we have done like micro dosing with psilocybin. And every time we have, we have amazing breakthroughs in the relationship and we feel even... So I could see how people could get addicted to that. You know, that like, wow, man, every time I do this, sex is amazing. And oh, we learned something new. It's a powerful tool, man. Yeah. And because it's a powerful tool, I could see how you start to play that, you know, justifying... Well, the way... We should do it again this weekend. We should do it again this weekend. Well, that's it. The way that it was explained to me is it's the integration is the work. Right. So you get the feeling, you get the ability to think about things in a particular way, forgive yourself, whatever, however you want to word it. And then it's the integration of the work afterwards. That's important. Falling in love with the feeling that it provides is then that becomes addictive behavior and you distract yourself. Yeah. Well, and then I think also the other part isn't just the integration part, then also I think the goal would be, just like how we talk about like intuitive eating. The goal would be to figure out what it's helping you break through with and start to teach yourself how to do that. Exactly. Organically or naturally. Yeah. So I think, you know, when I talked to like Katrina's mom, who's more on the holistic side of things like that, they don't use anything like that. And she's hardcore in the meditation and the spiritual stuff. Like I would tell her about my experience with that and she just kind of laughed at me and she goes, oh honey, she goes, that's the beginner stuff. When you get, when you really learn to do this, you don't need any drugs. You do this naturally. That makes sense. And I don't disagree with her. I'm like, I could see how people could get addicted to the drug and the high part of wanting to utilize it. And to me, maybe that's the lazy part is that you just, I could see it being a tool. Like imagine this, imagine if we had a way where someone could take a pill or something and then be fit and healthy for 24 hours. So it would give them the feeling of, oh, this is what it's like. Right. Oh my God. This is what it feels like to feel good. Right. So then that might be the impetus that they need to say, okay, this is what I want to do and take care of myself. But the work is still in doing those things. And also the, there is no end goal. We've talked about this a million times. It's the journey process. That's where you learn. So and someone could get addicted to just taking something to feel good. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, highly likelihood they'd be seeking those pills out like continuously to feel that feeling. Well, isn't that what we see? I mean, we see that a lot in our space. I feel like the, our space tends to, which I'm sure there's somebody who's listening right now is going to get defensive about this. Like, because you're poking at that. Like, our space does this because I mean, my theory is this, is that the health space is a growth minded, whether you want to look better, burn body, fat, build muscle or not. You stand it long enough. It's a, it's a pro personal growth journey. Cause that's what it is really. And if you stick to it long enough, eventually you're like, okay, I got this fitness thing down. Wow. I've developed a good relationship with nutrition. Okay. I've got a better relationship with stress and now relationships and eventually get to spirituality. And that's why you see all these fitness and health people who've been doing this for 10 years. Next thing you know, they're, you know, doing psychedelics. They're doing ayahuasca. They're doing crystals and they're searching. Right. Because you keep going down this path. You're eventually going to touch everything. And it's, it's, and you probably are more attracted to that because you come from a, the science-based community. And so you want to reject traditional religion. Correct. And so, you know, for some weird reason, praying to my mother ayahuasca and doing crystal stuff, doesn't seem as religious to you. So you go, sorry. I know that I'm probably offending people. I just, no, I mean, it's just growing. I mean, it's just getting closer to me, somebody who's seen both and been around both of them. I don't believe in all that, but you know, the universe told me. Yeah. What's the difference? Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway, speaking of pills, I was thinking a lot. So there's this doctor that has now been interviewed a couple of times. Don't remember her name. We'll find her. But there's this clip of her talking about how, you know, regardless of, like something along the lines of, regardless of your lifestyle, how you eat, your activity levels, you're not going to change, you're not going to change how you're obese. It's like your odds of being obese if you have two obese parents. That was a 60 minute, that was an empowering message. That was a 60 minutes interview. Yes. The odds of you being obese if you have two obese parents is 80%. She's like, so genetics play a huge role, this and that. And it makes me want to rip my remaining hair out of my head because the reason why you have an 80% chance of being obese with obese parents is because you live the lifestyle that they live. It's not. It's not a disease. Stop trying to sell it. So I was thinking a lot about this this weekend. You're not helpless in that fact. And you know, I'm going to make a statement that I will 100% stand by, which is that the pharmaceutical industry, so big pharma, and the medical industry, either knowingly or unknowingly, so consciously or unconsciously, do not like fit and healthy people. In fact, So they're here for profit. They hate fit and healthy people because fit and healthy people are the worst consumers of their products. If you're fit and healthy, you don't take, you take far less medications or the medications that you do take, if you have to take them, are typically generic and inexpensive. So maybe you're a diabetic because you're born to insulin or you have to take thyroid. Okay. But you're not taking expensive pharmaceutical drugs that are controlling all these different symptoms. You don't go to a hospital or the doctor very often at all. You are not the consumer they're looking for. You are not a profitable consumer. I think it's less insidious than that. I think it's just more straightforward. It's the way they make the most money is giving you the pill. The easiest way to convince you you need that is to convince you that it's, it is some genetic thing. Well, that's, well, that's what I mean. I know, but I mean, I don't, I don't think it's like there's this like evil plan. Like we hate, we want everybody. It's like, it's just easy. It's like, hey, if we tell people it's not their fault, they're going to, they already don't want to exercise. They already don't want to make those choices. So now we're giving them the easy out and then what we're going to do. And that's what, by the way, like if you cannot see the setup that's coming. Oh, come on. You know, it's like make up. It's so obvious. So hard. Yes. And that's the, the follow up to this is all these medications that are going to follow that. And you're going to, now you're going to have all these people that are going to be, all these fat loss. You're going to be able to go to the doctor and by just being overweight, no other symptom, no other conditions. Yup. You're going to qualify for obesity, drugs, insurance is going to cover it and they're going to make a killing and they're going to convince you that there's nothing you could do lifestyle wise to change this. So try and take our medication. Now I'm not saying, this is what I mean by unconsciously, unconsciously, unconsciously. I don't think they have this big like meeting and they're like, we need to get rid of like, we hate fit and healthy people. Yeah. What I mean is, Yeah. No, what I mean is that the system itself, the system itself is. Dispector gadget. Excellent. It's geared and designed to treat people who are not fit and healthy. So by design, you are not the consumer. You fit and healthy people exercise regularly. People who eat, right? People who take care of themselves are totally not the consumer. They're looking at everybody else. And so if they can get everybody to move from here to here or take people and prevent them from moving in that category of fit and healthy, they've expanded their market. And the largest, most profitable potential market that I can think of is obesity because you don't have to have high blood pressure. You don't have to have diabetes. You don't have to have anything. If they can make obesity a disease, you qualify for treatment, insurance companies cover it. Doctors can now treat it. And you have just opened up a billions and billions of dollar market. And that's the whole point. Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of money out there to be made. Bro, speaking along those lines, I'm going to go down a little tangent here. Uh-oh. So I'm not going to make any statement like opinion. I'm not going to pass any opinions, but it's really weird, okay? I wrote them down. I've been seeing articles like I've never seen before. I've been seeing articles that are saying, eating too many eggs is causing blood clots. Climate change is increasing the risk of heart attacks, sudden heart attacks. Solar flares. Social media. Solar flares, too. Gas stoves. Sudden adult death syndrome is like this big thing now that people are talking about that I'm seeing articles come out like crazy. How's this thing? Isn't that weird? Yeah. I've never heard, I've never seen so many strange articles connecting. Just imagine Googling, you know, and you're trying to kind of figure this out like why what you're seeing is, you know, and then you're going to stumble upon an article that's telling you like, you know, solar flares happen every so often and then, you know, people get heart conditions as a result. Well listen, we need to give, we need to give people something to attach themselves to and share to their friends when they're defending their reasons for their five shots that they've taken now. That's what it feels like. And that's really what it smells like to me is just like, here you go, here's some articles to help. It's very deliberate. Help defend yourself on why you're going to get your next booster and why it's smart for you to keep doing that because this is attached to other things. It's just weird to me because I, you know, again, I'm not going to make any statements, but when I see the propaganda machine go in full swing and literally, I've never in my life seen articles that have said anything like this, it's very weird to me. So it's like, why are they saying all this? Is it because they're preparing people for data that's coming out? That's showing? That's strokes, blood clots, and a heart attack is exploding? Okay, so explain how the process... He's investigating right now. Yeah, so explain the process to me because I'm unfamiliar with this. Like, CDC launched an investigation, right? Yeah, yeah. So what should we look forward to as far as like, how long does that take before we start to hear numbers and feedback? Where is it going to be announced? Is it going to make mainstream media? Has it already been announced? Years. Oh, years? Yeah, it'll take years. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, it'll take at least a few years to get all that data. You know, I told you guys about that. And between that time, we should be able to get at least four or five more boosters out as what Pfizer's saying, right? Like, oh, we still got four or five more boosters. And now we have to change, you know, with athletes and people getting physicals to make sure they account for any kind of heart condition. They're doing EKGs. So schools... That's protocol now. Yeah, a lot of schools now are as part of your physical. When you get a physical... I don't know, I've gotten physicals when I was a kid for judo and tournaments and they don't do an EKG on you. But now lots of schools are requiring EKG as part of the physical because of the... They're saying because of the risk of sudden, you know, heart failure. Yeah. Just on the course. Just call something else. Or whatever. What was the percentage of it? Because I know the people that defend this or try and argue it is that this has been around for decades and we've known about it. And I can't remember what I read, but the percentage of athletes on average that have gone down for the sudden death, right? Yeah. I forgot what the number was for the last, say, decade we've been tracking and then in the last year or two... There was like more in the last year than there were in the previous... Right, right. I think that's what I read. So in the last year, all of a sudden we've accumulated more in one year's time than we did the previous 10 combined. Right. And to me, that's... Well, and it's hard too because you'll get like countering articles and all this other information trying to dismiss a lot of the numbers and kind of shuffle the numbers around. And so it's like, what are the actual numbers? It's really hard to get, but you know, just from examples that you can Google of like all around the world of people where this has happened to and especially in the athletic community where it happens very infrequently, it's very substantially higher. So here's... And this is gonna... Oh, for sure. We're gonna piss somebody off here. I was talking to my cousin the day before yesterday and they just had a family friend that was hospitalized with the clot a week later after the vaccine or the booster or whatever. And one of the things that her and I were talking about was like, you know what's really crazy? And she was like, I know nobody that died from COVID or had anything... Everyone got... I know a lot of people got sick and felt like a bad flu. She goes, I have nobody connected to me personally that died of COVID. And I said, well, I have. I know one person who was connected to me. She goes, but I got at least five people I know that had some severe adverse effects after they got at the vaccine. And I said, I can't deny that either. I said, I have way more people I know that I've heard issues of the side effects from taking it than I knew that actually... And I know somebody who died from COVID. Look, this is anecdote, okay? So not evidence. We're not doctors, but I have a cousin 14 years old who he lived in Italy and they really pushed hard over there. Like you got a digital passport. You couldn't work. You couldn't go grocery shopping. And he had to be hospitalized and he's still getting treated. They can't figure out what's wrong. That was after he got his vaccine. I have another cousin who was breastfeeding. And by the way, you can look this up. This sounds crazy, but you can look it up. And in forums, you'll see women talk about this, that their breast milk changed and turned to blue tinge. Her breast milk changed and started turning a blue tinge. She stopped breastfeeding her baby. Couldn't figure it out. By the way, I do want to say this. Again, that's all anecdote, but the industry itself is to blame for all the people who are not trusting them because of the way they pushed it, because of the way that they gaslighted people. There were women who were like, this is messing with my period and they got canceled off social media. Then later on, they're like, oh yeah, it does affect your period. There were people who had canceled for certain things. Oh yeah, it does do that. We got that Rasmussen poll that came out, a poll that came out. Seven percent of people in the poll said that they got side effects that were severe enough for them to go back to the doctor or take work off. Well, the biggest thing that's the most bullshit about all this to me, in my opinion, is that, and we will get this from this conversation, is that, oh, I don't want to hear political talk. We've attached it. We've attached medicine. Medical procedure to politics and politicians. And that we can't have an open discussion about our thoughts around it without us supposedly staking a claim for a political side. That's ridiculous to me. We're in the science business. That's what we've been doing. That's part of our field. You wouldn't need it if it was super efficacious. To not be able to communicate that openly with other intelligent friends that I have in the space without it turning into, oh, you're making a political stance. It's fucking crazy to me. Why can't I not? I have nothing to do with how people vote. I'm just, I'm so curious about what's going on. We're concerning people's health and so on. And to me, it's in that sphere of what we talk about, what we're concerned about. It's always like a consideration. It's like how we can advocate for ourselves. That's just the natural thing to talk about. Look, you can go back. We recorded podcasts when this was all going down. And I kept saying, we got to look at the data. I want to look at this. I'm healthy, so I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait a little bit. I was never anti, never pro. I was very much like, let's look and let's see what's going on. Well, with the current accepted data, the current accepted data, these are at the very least, nobody can argue this, ineffective. They're terribly ineffective. They don't prevent transmission. They last like three months, the preventative, whatever. The side effects are nasty. People feel like shit the day after. And then other people, there's other reports of other stuff. But the accepted data shows that these are ineffective, risky in terms of side effects, and the most profitable. That's a terrible combination. Especially without scrutiny. Especially when you have a pharmaceutical company or a company in general, a corporation that got a deal with the US government, guaranteed taxpayer dollars to the tune of billions of dollars. So that's where I'm like, let me just wait and see what's going on. Let me continue looking at the data. And oh, by the way, you tell me almost anything. And I'm going to question it because your incentives are to lie to me. There's no incentives for you to tell me the truth unless the truth is in your favor. Your incentives are to lie. And do you have a history of lying? Well, the great, the largest lawsuit ever for fraud was towards a pharmaceutical company. Largest ever paid out was that they lied and that they got to pay out. I think what drug was that? I remember what the drug was. That's crazy. There's so many examples. Yeah. And then the government, do they lie to you? Yeah, they lie to you all the time. They lie to you all the time. There's so many examples of these pharmaceutical companies getting sued like crazy for adverse effects that they were withholding from public knowledge. I'm just over the gaslighting about having a conversation. I think that's ridiculous. Oh, by the way, too, Trump was a huge pusher of this thing from the very beginning. Yes. So it's not a left or right thing. No, he still is. This is not a left or right thing. It's a government and fucking pharma thing. Yes. And the fact that you can't openly communicate it without being canceled or people fucking getting all defensive like you're trying to make a political sense. Same political. So fucking wake up, open your eyes. Dude, pay attention to the signs. Yeah. And guess what? We said it here and we've been saying it here. Watch what's about to happen to you all with the obesity thing. That's coming next. Yeah. That is 100% coming next. It's easy to predict. They're setting the table right now with the bullshit gaslighting around it being a genetics thing. And then the next thing is going to be, they're going to solve your problem. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. All right. So you mentioned athletes, Justin. You reminded me of something interesting that I just, you know how one of the most undervalued performance enhancing substances that you can, that you can find. It's one of the least expensive, most effective performance enhancing substances. It's sodium. I just, so check this out. So. So you can lose about half a liter to four liters of sweat per hour during a workout. Okay. So that's on average half a liter to four liters of sweat. Each leader has roughly 900 milligrams of sodium. Okay. So if you sweat a lot in one workout, you might need up to two to three grams, 2000 to 3000 milligrams of sodium to replace what you lost. Wow. So what does that mean? When you don't have enough sodium in your body, your muscles can't contract effectively. You can't, you lose stamina. You lose strength. You lose the ability to hold on to fluid for bodybuilders. You don't get a good pump. Your protein synthesis can drop as a result. In extreme cases, you become faint, dizzy, and all that stuff. You feel like garbage. You get headaches. Do you have any idea on how much you lose from the sauna and jacuzzi? Oh, probably more because you sweat more. Yeah. If I sit in there, if I don't stay hydrated or take my LMNT before I go in, and I sit in there longer than 20 minutes in either the sauna or my jacuzzi, I get a massive headache. And I'm always reminded, God damn it, I know better. So I've identified for myself, I'll drink one LMNT during my workouts. That's 1,000 milligrams. And I'll drink another one when I go in the steam room, which is another 1,000. If I do that, I feel good. I wonder how much you lose. Can you look it up, Doug? Can you tell me how much? Like what? Like what? 30 minutes of a sauna or 30 minutes in the jacuzzi? How much salt? This just happened to me the other night. Like Katrina and I, we were out in our jacuzzi. Maybe how much sweat you lose, Doug? Because then we know it's 900 milligrams per liter. See what that looks like. But it's got to be more. Yeah. A pint of sweat during a short stint. So it doesn't give you an exact time. How many liters is a pint? It's less than a liter for sure. It is? Well, two pints in a quart. Four quarts in a gallon. So I mean, I think a liter. Let's use chat GBT. Yeah, we can probably find it through there. Let me see here. No, I'm just curious because this has happened to me multiple times. And every time that I don't remember to do that, it happens. And I'm like, gosh, dang it. You think I'd learn. And maybe if I had the number, it would really motivate me. Like, hey, you know you're losing this much when you do that. One liter is two pints. So you're, I mean, you're probably losing. I would say you're probably losing a liter to two liters, depending on how much you sweat. And you know, the more you sweat, the more you do it, the more, the more easily you sweat. I don't know about you guys, but if I saw in a regularly, I'll break a sweat real fast and sweat real nice. I haven't even noticed that. This always reminds me though. I mean, when I was, I was playing and it was like humidity levels really high. We were just like sweating, just getting to practice. But the protocol was like, drink a lot of water, make sure you're properly hydrated. There wasn't enough talk about sodium intake. And there was still that like dehydration effect that you would feel, you know, even after you're done with practice and like it just didn't, we didn't have that right balance. That's cause we grew up in the era of salt being demonized. Salt and fat was a big, I think that still persists. You know, it does. No, no, no, you're right. It does. But it was, it was real high. At least like the information. I mean, there's brands like Element T and stuff like that that are now popular. If your sodium is low, your cravings are off, your mood is off. You're not going to have good performance. You're not going to sleep well. It could throw off your hormones. Sodium will affect things like your thyroid. So you need to have adequate sodium. It's the most underutilized, undervalued and yet most effective when needed. You know, compound you can think of is salt. Shit, wars were fought over salt. You know, it's a really big deal. And by the way, I mean, if you're somebody who's like, I know we're connected to, we're actually partners, we're an army, excuse me. Investors. Investors in Element T. So obviously there's a motivation for us to steer people to Element T. But listen, fucking just salt your food. Go out of the way to go get that. Throw some sea salt in your water. Yeah, I mean, if you, if it's like a money thing for you, it's like, oh, that's ridiculous. Why am I paying this? Then you then salt your food. The point, the science, the information, the point we're trying to make still stands true. Like that's something that people don't get enough of. What's nice about that is that it's convenient. It's easy. Yeah. It's also got the right ratio of magnesium to potassium because you want to have those, a little bit of those as well. Well, and you know, right? Like, I mean, when I salt my food, like how much am I really getting? Like I'm not like weighing, measuring my salt, then putting it in and going, oh, that's how many milligrams I have. Whole natural food has very low sodium. Yeah. I mean, you'd have to process food as an athlete to get the sodium that you probably need. And you know what's terrible? What you said, Justin, is that athletes don't know this. They think they're just dehydrated. So they just drink more water. Yeah. If you just drink more water, you'll actually throw your electrolyte balance off even more. It'll be worse, yeah. Even more. And this is where you'll get people drink water, drink water and get dizzier and feel shittier. I need more water. I need more water and feel worse and worse and worse. I mean, that's happened to me. Yeah. Like I said, that was the only protocol. That was the only way you, you know, before practice and then after practice. And that was really the only sort of standards they had. Yeah, they were trying, but we were still, you know, having the effect. Dude, speaking of weighing, I just read about the longest fast in history. Longest fast? Yes. The longest time. 40 days and 40 nights. Somebody went without food. Someone beat Jesus? Yeah, dude. Somebody crushed. Nobody beat Jesus, dude. Somebody crushed Jesus. No way. What? How many? This was recorded, medically recorded, and it's in the Guinness Book of World Records. So Agostino Barbieri, this was a Scottish man. He was, let's see, he lost 276 pounds. So he was a big dude. He was like 400 pounds. Whoa. He didn't eat for 382 days. No way. 382 days. Just literally living off the reserves in his body. Yes. So he was 27 years old. Wow. It was 1960, 65. And he got, his doctors monitored him. All he had was tea, electrolyte powder, multivitamin, and coffee is what I read. For 382 days, he only had those things, had nothing else, lost all that weight. And check this out, trip off this. Every 37 to 45 days, I think it was, he still pooped during that period of time. What? He was pooping his own fat. No. His butt. And it's what he survived off of. He was so obese. And they show it before and after pictures. It's just oil, just dripping. Wow. They show him before and after pictures. Oh, I would have never even come close to guessing that. Yes. Isn't that crazy? That's insane. So they show him that he was, there he is. Look at his before and after. What is that highlight for you? That how we think we go like, I'm so hungry. I'm starving. I'm starving. I was supposed to have lunch an hour ago. Bro, you go 360 days, you'd be fine. Bro, how wild is that though? That's about a week earlier. That's fast. He survived off his own body, which obviously he had a lot of body fat. He was a big dude. Bro, the discipline to stay on that like that for that long. Yeah. Like he must have made a commitment to himself, I'm going to not eat until all of this weight. That's exactly what we said. I'm not going to eat until all this. He said I'm not going to eat until I hit my target weight. I wonder how long you actually struggle with it. You know, at a certain point it was like it just did he, did he have the education or did he have somebody who's close to him that was like a doctor who said, this is even possible. We'll monitor you the whole time. That's why it's in the Guinness Book of World Records because he would go in every week and was getting monitored, measured, tested. They would test his blood, make sure he was okay. Look at his organs for, I mean, this was 1965. So it wasn't like, you know, this was when we had some, you know, some okay, modern medicine. So I wonder, I wonder, you know what would be really interesting is actually to see his labs with that. And I mean, someone that obese, I bet not eating for a very, very long time showed nothing but positive benefits. Right? Like you would start to see like his cholesterol levels, blood pressure, all these things probably move in a really, really healthy direction for a long period of time. At what point did it hit the curve and come back the other way? I don't know. Or did it ever? That's interesting. Yeah. Was he like bedridden for a long time? No. He's just moving around and not eating? No, he just lived his life. He didn't exercise. He just lived his life and just didn't eat and was able to. Now, what's crazy about that is yes, it's 270 something pounds over 384. So on average, how much weight was he losing per month? What is that, Doug? 386 divided by what was it two? Do we know what happened to him afterwards? Well, he died at 51. So he was 456 pounds when he went in and he went in and he lost weight and got to 180 pounds. So he lost on average 12 ounces per day or 22 pounds every single month. So every month he lost on average 22 pounds by not eating. Yeah. So anyway, we're coming out with a new diet called the Barbieri. Super complex. Water and coffee to save money. You lose weight. It's super easy. Only one thing. Wow. I did not know. I didn't know if there was anybody even close to that. Isn't that wild? Did you know? I mean, did you even? I had a long time ago. Oh, you did? Yeah. And then it sparked my, like we were sitting here hanging out and I'm like, oh, I shit, I got to look that up because I'll be interested to bring up on the show. But sure enough, there it is. Wow. Yeah, pretty well. That's crazy. Anyway, we're supposed to mention Organifi. I want to tell you guys that my, we have a postpartum doula and she's a vegetarian and I've been having her take the Organifi protein and she's like, I wish somebody told me that eating more protein would be this, would feel this good. Oh, wow. I mean, a lot of people don't know. I feel like, yeah, there should be, we should be a bit more evangelist in that sense in terms of like, you know, vegans and then also too, like with like creatine, both of those combined Organifi creatine, like I feel like that's just such a must. Well, you know why? Because the vegan community pushes this, this over-prescription of protein. And so that makes you as, which is such a terrible message because most of my female clients, doesn't matter what they would label themselves vegan or regular eater on them or whatever, it doesn't matter, under-consumed protein, especially if they were lifting weights and trying to build muscle and speed things. Oh, I think she was eating like 50 grams a day. Yeah. So one shake is like double that. Then you're told that like, oh, you don't need as much protein as they tell you. You don't need as much protein. It's like, that's such a terrible message. So I mean, go for it. Be vegan. I'm all forward, do it. But then make sure you get your protein up. You'll see a huge difference in how you feel, your muscle, your hair, all that stuff. And then I have my brother-in-law, same thing, Jiu Jitsu, he lifts weights every once in a while. He's training for a tournament that's coming up. And I'm telling him, dude, just do me a favor, dude. Just bump your protein. He's like, aren't I going to gain body fat from adding the extra calories? I said, eat it first and then watch what happens. Sure enough, he's messaging me. He's like, bro, I don't know why I don't always listen to you. He's like, I feel great. I feel great. I'm so much stronger. He's like, I'm leaner. He's like, how am I leaner? I said, well, the muscle probably burned the body fat. You're probably eating less. You don't even realize it because you're hitting your protein targets. Sal loves when people tell him that. I don't know why I don't just listen to you all the time. Just listen to you all the time. Yeah. Just listen to you all the time. Yeah. Learn something. Hey, what's happening? There's a company we'll work with called Butcher Box. They deliver grass-fed meats and wild caught fish to your door for incredible prices. If you value your health and you like protein, you like meat, go to Butcher Box. It's a great company and they've got some giveaways. In fact, right now you can get three pounds of free range organic chicken wings in every box for the life of your membership plus $20 off your first order. If you're interested, go to butcherbox.com forward slash mine pump. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. First caller is Len from Florida. Len, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going guys? Good, man. How are you? Good. Thank you. Hey, I just want to start out with the obligatory, you know, thanks for everything you guys do. You guys really kind of helped shape my past couple of months here. I've been listening for about a little background. I've been listening for about a year. I've been really trying to take working out seriously now for like the past, you know, nine months or so. So starting out, you know, we started out, of course, with the beach body type stuff. I know that's not the best thing to do, but listening to you guys started more into strength training. The one thing I did like about the kind of the beach body type programming though was all the mobility, stability stuff. So that kind of led me to get into your priming, you know, your prime and pride pros. I bought both of those here over the Christmas, you know, or the Black Friday holiday sale. And just kind of some questions about how to work that into my programming, you know, it makes a lot of sense, you know, like if I was running like a traditional like split type programming, like chest in, you know, triceps, okay, you know, I can prime my chest, I can prime my triceps, you know, it makes for a pretty easy day. But kind of just how that works, you know, like with the full body type programming that, you know, we've been utilizing now, you know, because I'm in aesthetic now, I ran maps anabolic before. So, you know, I'm just kind of wondering what does a prime and session look like for a full body type routine with the prime pro and prime programs. Well, you'd love good question. Mass performance is, you know, there's mobility sessions, program name, just like you would see an aesthetic for the focus sessions for the days in between for active recovery. So just in terms of like the easiest way to see how that gets programmed in, you know, that's one example, but you know, in terms of like the prime program itself, that's really setting you up for your individualized needs in terms of like any kind of dysfunction, any kind of restriction you might have joint wise. You're going to be able to pinpoint that with our tests in there. Yeah, it depends on the person. So when you get maps primed, there's a compass test in there. You take the test and you see pass or fail. And then that'll tell you what your priming session looks like. So my priming session for a full body workout would look different than Justin's or Adams, right? I may need more thoracic mobility, which thoracic mobility is needed for almost every upper body exercise and even lots of lower body exercises like squats, right? So based on the compass test, you'll have your priming session and that's your quote unquote warmup. Now prime pro, you want to pick your areas of concern, the areas that you feel like you need the most mobility, like shoulders, wrist, hands, ankles, hips, whatever. And then those you do as much as you want. You pick one or two movements from that area. Let's say it's your hips and you pick two mobility movements for your hips. Anytime you have five minutes, get down the floor or use a bench or a chair and do five minutes of mobility. And that can be done as frequently as you want. You don't have to do it before, during or after a workout. Your personality as far as, you know, are you the type of person that like, oh, give me all these list of things and I'm going to execute and do all of them or I'm trying to build consistency. It would matter how I respond to something like this, right? So if you go through the prime, prime is going to show you like all these areas where you fail. It'll direct you over to these movements or what you want to address. Now what happens a lot is most people actually fail all three and then there's a whole host of things that they need to do. And then they get a little overwhelmed with all the different things for them to prime or all the mobility work to do and then it makes them kind of inconsistent. Now what I personally like to do or teach people to do is to pick two, three at best prime movements that make the biggest difference in your performance in the gym and really hammer those home and practice them and practice them and practice them and be consistent with it. And then over time, we can start to add other ones that also assist it. So for example, for me, the combat stretch absolutely necessary for me to be able to get into a deep good squat and it's a night and day difference when I do it and I don't do it. So that check, I've got to do that. When I'm benching, I absolutely have to, thoracic mobility really prime my upper back so my shoulders stay in place like I want them to be and so that's a must. And then also doing some sort of, you know, either wall circles or zone one to really prime my shoulder so they're stable and in position for when I'm doing upper body exercise like any shoulder presses. Those are like my three. Now I work 1990s. I love scorpions. I do all these other things too but the three I've nailed down that make the biggest impact on how well my performance is in the gym are the ones that like I'm religious about. And so I tend to teach it that way. It's like, you know, pick up a couple of them that you know you can feel a difference and helps and get really good at being consistent with that. And then over time start to build in the other ones if you can, if that makes sense. Do you have mass performance by the way? Because I know Justin mentioned that and I think you'd love a program like that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't. I just have the prime, prime pro anabolic anesthetic right now. So yeah. I'm going to send you a performance because performance is movement focused. Do you really like mobility and movement? I mean, that's the program for you. Yeah, you know, like I'm not really into this to like, you know, like look better. I mean, you know, I'm getting 45 years old I'm more about this how I feel, you know. So my, my fear is I guess, you know, if I quit doing kind of like a full body type, you know, prime mobility stability type thing. Like I don't, you know, like I know that my areas are my shoulders and my upper back, you know, my thoracic area, but I don't want to lose, you know, like hamstring mobility, you know, for instance. So I just kind of was, yeah. So, yeah. No, I totally relate what you're saying, Adam. So, you know, thanks for that. Yeah. And I actually, Justin, listening to you even more now, you could performance is made for you, bro. You're going to love performance. It is the single program of all the programs that we talk about that I think that you could like run over and over and over and really kind of hit. It's very much geared towards movement and, you know, addressing joints, issues and reinforcement. And it's the one that's going to take you, you know, into your ladder years, like feeling great. Nice. Nice. Okay. Yeah. I'll definitely look forward to that. You got it, man. Awesome. Thanks, Len. Well, thanks for your time. I appreciate you guys. No problem. Thank you, Adam. You know, the irony of what he said is, he's like, I just want to feel good, which the irony of that is that's how he's going to look good. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. You're going to look good. You're going to look good. You're always trying to look good. You end up not feeling good, which then means you end up not looking good. You know what I wish I would have asked him? I wish I would have asked him this, because it's interesting to me that he bought Prime, Prime Pro, anabolic and aesthetic, but not performance. Yeah. When he, like performance was written for him. Right. So I would, from a marketing standpoint, selfishly, I'd like to... Yeah, where was our disconnect there? Yeah. Where did we do a bad job of not delivering that message to somebody like that? He's obviously aware enough to pick up Prime and Prime Pro for the mobility and stuff like that, reasons. But to miss out on performance when literally he is like perfect for that. Yeah. So I'm curious to why the other ones and not that one, because I think he's going to absolutely love that program. And we do get asked a lot the Prime questions of like, because what happens is most people will fail that test and then they go and they see all the exercises and priming movements they should do to address it. And it can be a bit overwhelming. And with my clients, it was always hard to get them to do the little tedious work, right? The stretching, the mobility stuff, the foam rolling. Right. And what I learned over years of coaching people was even though I know they need all of these things and that that's ideal, a better strategy is to implement the one or two that make the biggest difference for them, the one that I can do. And they go, whoa. Yeah. It's like, okay, let's hammer that. No, I love that point. And I think it's, it's easiest to figure that out. If you have a coach kind of helping you determine which ones. But otherwise, you know, if you're doing this yourself to really just kind of go through, you know, some of those, most of those exercises and really feel your way through it, feel which one has the most impact. Yeah. Stick with that one. And like you said, simplify. But really, if you go into Prime and you read the instructions, if you fail all three, it tells you what to do. If you fail one, it tells you what to do. It does. And then, you know, within that category, then you pick the ones that give you the biggest impact. Our next caller is John from California. John, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going guys? Good, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. And thank you for all the amazing information you guys put out there. It's been really helpful. Awesome. My situation has evolved since I submitted my questions. So would you like me to stick to my original question or kind of... Well, let's hear it on that. Why don't you go off your original and then tell us how it changed? Okay. So I finished Power Lift. Now it was three weeks ago, but two weeks ago. And I felt great throughout the program. I started symmetry right after that. And my body hasn't been feeling as good. I have more aches and pains. And my lower back's been pretty sensitive. And so I was wondering if this was a common thing or if I should just keep going with symmetry. And yeah, I haven't been sleeping well either because of the minor aches and pains. The evolution has been, the aches and pains have gotten better and my lower back feels better. But then I'm experiencing a lot of pain in my kind of trap area. And so I went to see a physical therapist and he mentioned that it might be like a disc issue, so I'm getting a MRI in a week. Okay. So yeah, I'm kind of wondering where to go from there. I obviously want to avoid surgery at all costs. And I just listened to a guy named Shane on the last episode you guys put out and he experienced sounds like similar issues. So yeah, kind of where to go from here. So John, when you do something new, if it highlights imbalances and the intensity is too high for you and your imbalances, you can start to experience aches and pains. So I'm gonna, I think what's happening is you probably, before symmetry, did you train mostly bilaterally? Barbells, dumbbell like traditional strength training? Absolutely, yeah. Even before I started power lift, I was always bilateral. Okay, so like if you balance on one foot or you're doing one arm stuff, like your joints have to stabilize and balance differently than they did before. So what I would say if you were my client is I would say cut way back on the intensity with symmetry because it's opening things up or highlighting things and you're probably training too hard for where your body's at in the context of the program. So you might not get the muscle burn and the pumps that you're expecting, but that's okay, we're allowing your joints and stability to catch up. So I'd slow down and go easier in map symmetry and in fact you're already seeing some of those old aches and pains start to get better because things start to bounce out. I was gonna say, I think he's already starting to see what's gonna happen if you keep going there. It's going to get better, I think you're good. But the intensity is probably a little too high for what your body's looking for and then as far as the discus you was concerned, of course you wanna make sure that you're okay to exercise, but go easier. That's what I would suggest. Go easier with map symmetry. That's a hard thing to tell somebody. Well, so John, here's what happens with a lot of people when they go on one side. When they stop bilateral exercise and they start doing one arm or one leg is that they have a tough time with going lighter and they tend to compromise technique and form without realizing it to try to be able to lift the amount of weight or with the type of intensity that they're used to with bilateral exercise. If you always bench press with a barbell and now you're gonna go on a bench or whatever with one dumbbell and you're used to a certain amount of CNS output and driving, you're not gonna get that with one arm yet because there's a lot of balance that's involved. The limiting factor is not the weight, the limiting factor is gonna be the stability and the balance. Your form has to be perfect. You're so strong in other directions and to be able to now place yourself in a position where your body has to stabilize and account for a lot more balance and this unilateral type of stability is gonna be completely different in the bracing and the core and everything else, these little secondary muscles are gonna be worked a bit harder than they were previous to that which is then gonna, so that's just something to consider in terms of going too intense, it really will play into how you feel afterwards. Listen, this is actually really common. Especially when you, if you would consider yourself or if you identify it as a powerlifter type of guy, if you've trained most of your life with that kind of mentality the way you hit the weights, in the way you approach them and that's hard if you've been a consistent lifter for a long time and lifted a certain way just as like it's really difficult to get a bodybuilder to lift like a powerlifter who's lifted like a bodybuilder for his whole life and then now you go, hey, you're gonna do your first powerlifting meet and he does it with all these weird short range of motions and he doesn't know how to drive his legs so the same is true for them and so as you approach into symmetry and then probably should do a program like performance to follow it up you have to, it's really the mentality as you go into it which is tough for a big strong guy is to like be obsessed with the control and the movement and almost look at it in this like artistic way and making the movement look pretty which is you gotta kind of think It's a totally different workout. I know that sounds really weird and funny but that's how much you have to shift the way you look at your training now it's not about how heavy is the dumbbell that you're holding on to and it's more of like how perfectly can I make my left side look like my right side, you know and keeping it controlled through the whole movement and slowing it down. So you did our maps powerlift even Ben Pollock who is this very accomplished powerlifter then goes to do a split stance movement and just started working on getting better at that that was a big struggle for him. He's one of the strongest guys out there. And he was doing 135 split stance and you could see shaking like a leaf. It was very tough for him because it was totally new so in other words to put it differently John the limiting factor here is not how much weight you can lift the limiting factor is how stable you can be during the lift your stability will go far before your strength does so you'll be able to handle way heavier dumbbells but your stability is not going to be so great and you can cause yourself some problems. So your technique is the limiting factor and what Adam said is exactly right perfect perfect perfect technique matching right to left going slow going controlled total total different mentality that's a hard switch it's hard to go from powerlift to symmetry that's going to be a very difficult switch because it's totally different mentality now at the end of symmetry you got five by five tremendously the last phase is five by five if you feel amazing go into it if you still feel like then I would go back through symmetry and then go into that last phase on that second time around it's tough when you're the strong dude man I mean nothing's more humbling than you know being a guy who can bench press you know 315 plus no problem and then I'm asking you to use like 40 pound dumbbell presses like you know and you're doing something that you're like oh my god I feel like my wife can do this this is bullshit you know you have to like get rid of that bro you it's and it's tough man so it is but it is common and and it also is actually highlighting a really good thing there's lots of opportunity here for you and if you can get your if you can shift the mentality and lift like this for a while it's really going to serve you and you'll come back even stronger so I mean I think what you're feeling and going through is your body talking to you and telling you like this is needed we need to do this and it's going to suck for the ego for a little bit but I promise you it'll serve you in the long run that's right John do you have mass performance because I'd like you to follow up yes symmetry of performance I do yeah I have symmetry and performance okay so that was kind of my next question is that would be nice you think finish symmetry and because the caller before Shane he you mentioned to skip the bar the five by five section of symmetry based on his issue and so yeah but he had you think I should he I should assess how I feel well John potentially yes yeah potentially yeah he had a he actually had surgery you haven't been diagnosed yet if you get diagnosed with herniated disc or something like that then yes I would have you do I would have you avoid that last phase yeah but if you but if you feel good go for go go ahead and test it and enjoy it and see how it is but I mean it would be one of those things and I tell you what why don't we do this John I'll have all have Doug put you in the private forum and then just keep us posted so as you get as you get further along the program and get closer after you get diagnosed shoot us a message in there just tag tag one or all of us and let us know what the diagnosis was and or how you're feeling through the program and then we can give you some some tips from there okay excellent sounds awesome all right man run on John all right thank you guys that's funny you brought up that video with Ben I remember that yeah it was 135 this guy who's squat 700 pounds one of the strongest guys out there and it was so hard and it looked awkward as fuck watching because he's never done obviously he just doesn't do obviously has the actual force he's got the strength to lift more than that but in that position his stability was the limiting you know and and what will happen I can I'm visualizing like you know a powerlifter that's used to lifting in some serious way you know and then they go to you know one arm dumbbell press or something like that and you have this tendency to I mean he probably John probably has a strength to press 100 pound dumbbells over his head easy easy because he's got the strength to do it but then he's over compensating to the left or right or torquing something else the stabilizers right that's right and then the low back is like firing like crazy and he's just like why is it causing this these issues and it's like you know you're you're approaching the lift like you would I remember the first time I did a Bulgarian split stand squat I didn't do it again for years because you know hard and the gym I was squatting painful the soreness you get after that I do I'd squat 300 plus pounds in the gym no problem and then I go to do a Bulgarian split stand squat and 20 pound dumbbells yeah 20 pound dumbbells and it was hurting I was like I'm not doing this this is a guarantee of supporting cast muscles are just really totally you know sore our next caller is Christine from Arkansas hi Christine how can we help you hi guys how's it going very good great good um so I am a personal trainer and I've currently have a client who is a middle aged male and he has major instability in his shoulders so I've been putting him on machines because he's comfortable with having you know having that how would you say I guess stability support the support and the stability and it gives him more confidence doing things like that but if I attempt to use dumbbells or bands or anything of that sort he just gets really frustrated and just it feels defeated and that's not my goal my goal is to get him stronger motivate him keep him engaged but you know so at what point should I kind of veer away from machines and move into using free weights I mean ideally right now yeah ideally he'd you would make him do that stuff but I mean we have to talk about adherence too right so there's this is a great juggle for trainers right I know what he needs but I also recognize that he may hate this or not want to do this and so you know that's probably one of the greatest challenges as a coach and trainer is this is why Sal talks a lot about the number one quality of a trainer is sales and not because you have to sign him and sell him on more training but you're selling your ideas to him all the time and you've got to find a way to be able to communicate to him communicate to him that he needs that that stability component he the machine is working as a crutch for his issues right so he has this instability problem in the shoulders so of course sitting on a machine is much easier because the machine is stable but that we're now we're not addressing the root cause of what is going on here and if your goal is to get strong with me and lose body fat whatever his goals are and you want longevity and you want to feel good as you get even older this is what we need to do and hey it sucks at the beginning because it's just like anything you like I don't know what his job is but I always love to give analogies related to one of their job is like a computer tech guy it's like you know you're wanting to write code it's your first day in school of learning how to do that and so of course I can have crutch you and have a teacher give you all the answers but then you're never going to do it so that this is your body and what we're trying to do right now is and understand that you're expecting to be able to write code right away be really good at it no you're going to suck for a little bit so yeah and I think I think somewhat there's a fear to like trainers that it's going to be boring and tedious and that they're going to leave and not get any benefit where your biggest benefit is to be able to kind of include the the entertainment the enjoyment of coming in but also like really dive into that like this is a very glaring issue that you can solve and address and not you know yes there's good mobility movements and I'm sure if you haven't already and you've gone through like our prime tests and our prime pro and all of these things that we've kind of laid out as free resources or even our programs that can address like some shoulder stability issues you can also load and just start gradually where you know you have them hold in certain positions and overhead and just an isometric just to get that yeah so you so he just gets that sort of he gets like acclimated to that that top position and then also you know in the rack position and then also you know down for let's say like a suitcase carry so what I like to do is like add a bit of movement with that while they're also like just focused on stabilizing and making sure that they're reinforcing that so with with a little bit of load and you can gradually increase that load while the entire goal of it is stability so it's still something engaging and fun but now we're like addressing that very specific I love that like overhead carries would be for isometrics is going to be the way to go but look you have two jobs as trans why I like talking to trainers because you really have two jobs job one is get them to do what's right for them but job is more important is get them to want to do what's right for them okay right so we need to sell this to him that you have to sell this now there's two ways they can sell this I could say hey if you don't do this you're gonna hurt yourself and you're not gonna be able to progress and you really need this and that's boring and blah blah blah and that's not selling it to him does you want to build muscle Christine what's his goal what are his goals well he wants to lose belly fat so I'm like okay stop being a cardio bunny you know stop get off the machines and start lifting weights here's what you're gonna do this we're gonna do next time you see him you're gonna go up to him be like all right you want to get lean okay here's the best way to get lean I did a lot of research and I've come up with the best way to get lean and what we're gonna do is we're gonna build maximum muscle we're gonna speed up your metabolism and it's gonna make the fat loss a lot easier you want to do that yes I do great this is what we're gonna do and then you're done you got to sell him on what he wants and you're not lying that's the truth this is the fastest most effective way to get him there so you can do the negative stuff like oh you need to do this and we got to go slow and you got to crawl before you walk and he's a guy and he's not gonna hear that and that's more difficult being a female trainer with a male you know he wants to look good you know listen he wants to look strong like it's listen you go up to him and say you want to get lean and you want to build muscle yes I do all right this is what we're gonna do yeah he's gonna feed off your confidence and you got to sell him on the result but I think Justin hit it really the more I hear you and the more I think I'm piecing together this guy I'm assuming that the kind of tedious you know isometric mobility type work is he feels especially if he's like a cardio move sweat guy it's probably like this is stupid why am I laying on the ground doing this prone cobra thing and he's probably not enjoying that I think being able to load him like Justin is saying so he's challenged a little bit strength wise but focusing on that stability component I see overhead carries I I see overhead carries and you know if you've got kettlebells that'd be great if not dumbbells over his head and then being very meticulous about how he's how he's moving is his core tightened up is his glutes engaged is he stepping and like be real meticulous about how he's doing that as he's holding and then just you know try and get stronger and stronger every week by loading that more and more and so you're working on the stability but then you're also giving him kind of strength exercise so he doesn't feel like he's lying on the ground and doing nothing you know and clients listen clients love it when the trainer tells them what to do and says just do what I tell you they love it we're so afraid to do that to our clients and it's silly it's like we're asking our clients hey do you want to do this thing no you don't ask him nothing John this is what we're going to do today I don't want to do that I don't care what you want you told me you want to get buffed then we're going to do this I know what I'm doing and you know what they're gonna be like oh fuck I'm gonna listen to this guy that's what they want to hear they want you to tell they want you to tell them what to do I've never had a client ever in 25 years where I would say that and they would still be like I don't want it all right I'll do it and then eventually after two or three times of me telling them you're gonna do it my way because you told me what you want and I'm gonna get you where you want to go after two or three times they stop asking me especially when they start to see the results so remember that you got to sell it that way sell it that way you're not gonna have problems okay all right good deal listen you're a you're a trainer do you have maps prime pro I do not all right I'll send that to you relax oh I appreciate that thank you so much I'm mad at him I'll send you prime pro that that'll be very valuable for your clients yeah all right appreciate that thank you no problem all right you know just speaking to female trainers who train men often times not always but oftentimes they go into the relationship automatically feeling insecure or not confident because it's a man I'm gonna tell him how he's gonna build muscle he might get stronger than me how am I gonna spot him he's not gonna want to listen to me they feed off of your confidence or your insecurity or your hesitation if you're I don't care if you're a man or a woman you tell the person follow me we're doing this they're gonna people hire you because that's what they want they want to follow they want to feel that confidence if you hesitate imagine you go to the doctor and the doctor says well I mean you know what do you want this and we can't do that you'd be like I don't know what to do but if he's like no you got to take this which got to do you're like thank you doc I appreciate you being confident and give me the answer yeah and I hate pills well do you want to get better yeah I do okay take the goddamn pills that's I mean if I had a doctor talk to me that's you at ease I mean it's the same thing it's like oh I don't like I mean all right you you want to build muscle you want to lose your body fat right okay well these are the things we need to do I literally when I would say that literally they would I don't know if I want to do that well you want to build muscle this is what we're going to do and I would walk away towards the piece of equipment we're going to use and they would follow me and do it but they feed off that energy yeah I mean it's really how you and it is this is not a man woman thing it doesn't even matter that she's a female it's literally the confidence that she delivers it to him I've had lots of female trainers that just they just crushed it yeah this challenge for trainers is definitely I saw it in both sexes all the time and it's it's literally just lack of confidence and maybe your abilities or your knowledge or like that and you got to be assertive and if you if you want them to trust you and do it it just I mean don't be afraid to say this is what we're going to do and it's because you told me you want X Y and Z this is the path that's it our next caller is Kelly from North Carolina Kelly how's it going how can we help you I'm doing great thank you guys so much for having me on I really appreciate it I have been listening for about five months now and in fact my kids are tired of me always having you guys on either on YouTube while I'm working out or in the car so they've said you have to use iPod now so they don't have to hear it too but I just wanted to ask you some questions about reverse dieting so I had been a chronic dieter most of my life in my email mentioned a nickname I had as a kid so I was an overweight kid and so having a name that rhymes with belly is not fun so I about a year ago I started to really gain a lot of weight I got to the point that I was just doing so much cardio I was eating about 1100 to 1200 calories a day and it was like I can't stop I can't lower my calories and I can't increase my cardio anymore so I kind of found out about the reverse dieting I got hooked into you guys I got the reverse dieting guide and I had some initial weight gain which I understood like okay the guide tells me that you guys tell me that all the time but now I've gotten to about 1700 ish calories and every time I try to increase beyond that A it's really hard because I'm like full and I have to eat like crappy food in order to try and get the calories in or I immediately shoot up even more and wait so I know I'm getting stronger I got maps the RGB and I completed anabolic I just finished the first week of performance and I know I'm getting stronger but I am also finally being able to kind of monitor my body fat percentage and it's starting to creep up and so I'm like okay am I gaining more fat than muscle same amount because I mean I trust you guys if you tell me this is just part of the process suck it up that's fine or do I need to do kind of like mini cuts because I've also heard Adam say sometimes you do like a mini cut and then maybe you try and reverse further out of it Kelly when you so I'm reading your email so you went from 1100 calories to about 1700 calories and during that period of time gained three pounds on the scale also what happened with the cardio before and then not so much anymore what does that look like yeah so per your recommendations that I've always heard in the reverse dieting I stopped doing the cardio I am doing about 12 about 1200 to 1500 um 12,000 to 15,000 steps a day but you only went up three pounds please commend her on what you've actually accomplished a lot more than you probably think you have is that true you went up three so I immediately went up three pounds so like before I got to you guys I had found reverse dieting first somewhere else and as soon as I started reverse dieting I dropped a few pounds and then I added creatine and jumped up three pounds and I was like okay that's the creatine cool I went from carbs that were like 50% to carbs that were more like 30% with appropriate protein so I was like okay that makes sense but since then I have slowly like I continue to increase so I'm about 10 pounds more total than I was 8 to 10 pounds more than I was a year ago and also stronger and stronger and stronger yeah definitely stronger but like the clothes are starting to get a little tighter okay so first off you gotta think about look at where the clothes are tighter if it's in your butt you know the upper thighs then you're probably building some muscle and you're stronger so you're definitely building some muscle the little bit of weight gain that you had when you reverse diet is nothing considering you went up 600 calories and you got rid of cardio that's exceptional now here's a deal I want you to get rid of your scale for a little while I don't want you to weigh yourself anymore because it's gonna mess with your head a little bit you gotta give yourself a little bit more time and yes gaining some body fat a little bit of body fat is part of the process I'd like to see you get up to close to 2,000 calories and then cut from there now one thing you said though is that you can't eat anymore you feel like you're stuffing yourself is that correct? okay if that's the case and you feel like ooh this is really tough then it's okay to go on a mini cut you can do a mini cut for two weeks or three weeks or even a week now here's what I want you to do though or to understand don't expect to lose any weight in your mini cut that's great I'm gonna see some weight loss that may not happen what we're looking for is your appetite to get reinvigorated so we could go back into the reverse diet okay but because you dieted for so long on and off since you were a kid the reverse diet process meaning reverse dieting maybe with some mini cuts trying to build muscle this entire time is gonna take a little longer than you think because you know there's some theories out there but some people would say your cns memory and it's going to adapt in the negative very quickly as soon as you try and do a cut so I would slowly work up towards getting up to about 2,000 calories before trying to do a longer than mini cut I want to ask a little bit more I know you have the RGB bundle I think I'm reading that you ran through anabolic already are you currently in performance is that what's going on? yeah I just finished the first week of phase one and even in that it was amazing from what my starting strength and anabolic was to my first heavy week of performance was so I'm already squatting more than my body weight I can deadlift close to one and a half of my body weight already hold on where did you go from when you first started squatting can you tell me how much weight you were squatting versus what you could squat now I wasn't completely naive I was lifting weight but most of it was like cardio lifting weight because it was like body pump so I had been lifting weights before so I was about 120 I was squatting and you guys are the ones who convinced me to actually go below parallel so I'm below parallel I'm the deepest I've ever been I've got prime I passed all the compass stuff but I've been working on the ankle mobility and so I can get super low with good control it feels so good to be able to be at like I I squatted this week 160 you got way deeper just so you know Kelly if you were my client and you came into me saying this I would shake you shake you like this a little bit and say you need to wake up you're actually doing really fucking good in the right direction and keep in mind like you've gone up 600 calories so even you're going to even hold your body is going to hold a little bit more water than it's used to so even the little bit of what you might be seeing is like I feel like I'm putting on a little bit four pounds of that is water yeah a lot of that's probably water way the fact that you are as strong as you are you've increased your range of motion you've cut your cardio out we've up to 600 I mean you are fucking winning we're doing really well let me put this in context Kelly you increased your calories by over 50% so 600 calories a lot for anybody to go up but in context of the fact that you're eating 1100 calories doing tons of cardio and you couldn't lose any weight it was like that's where you were stuck at you drop the cardio and increase your calories by over 50% that's phenomenal you're not just moving in the right direction you're flying yeah you're killing it and the reason why I was asking more about the programming and stuff like that is keep trusting the process because I bet as you go through the different phases of performance and then aesthetic you're going to hit a really novel one that's going to probably stimulate the appetite again it's interesting when we when we do things that are somewhat familiar for us and then all of a sudden we hit someone and it's like oh my god I've never done these movements or boy this is kicking my ass and then all of a sudden you see that appetite spike up also so I mean I'd probably be pushing you to be stay the course I think you're doing a great job doesn't mean that I wouldn't potentially interrupt one week of low calorie just for the mental part of it for you to be like don't weigh yourself yeah but I'm not I'm not tripping on the scale where what I see or what I'm hearing from you how long let me ask you this how long have you been doing this how long did it take you to go from 1,100 to now one year she said is this a year process this the reverse diet started in September of September oh you're not even okay yeah Kelly I'll tell you a story I had a client who was really really bad shape in the sense that her metabolism was just in the context of slowing down was just a wreck okay it took us a year and a half and here's what happened that year and a half process it was kind of like this she gained a little bit and then we were kind of maintaining and maintaining and slowly reversing and getting stronger and getting stronger and then like a snowball all of a sudden it was like she got ripped her body just she just like oh my god this is crazy Sal I'm eating more and I'm just getting leaner I don't know what's going on I'm like we have got things working yeah so you got to have some you started here and you're on that you're on that path yeah give it some time yeah you're on that you're you're you're I was I was hoping that you guys would just say like just to continue to trust the pot process and I was just getting a little too myself there is nothing I would I would shake the shit out of you there's nothing that you said here there's nothing that you said here a loving way that's how you guys remember you almost got fired she shakes his clients there's nothing you said at all that would make me pause in fact everything you're telling me is telling me that you're crushing you're like on the right path so stay on do we have time for one more question sure okay so I know you guys have talked about it in the past the fact that you know clinicians are out there giving advice on exercise and diet and unfortunately we don't have a lot of great education on that I'm a practicing neurology PA and I'm very interested I also happen to have a PhD in neuroscience so I'm very interested in aging and cognition and how our hardware our body helps the software in our mind so where would I go to get good education because I mean yeah there's like the the guidelines for 150 minutes of exercise do you follow Andrew Huberman now oh there you go yeah and you're gonna love his content you know what else do Kelly if you think of the things obviously you know this like you know this better than I do the brain is part of the body right so think of the hormones and you know the catecholamines and the you know the all the compounds that affect brain health and how they how muscle body fat and activity affect those compounds so just a silly example would be like glucose metabolism right so you know that dementia and Alzheimer's there seems to be somewhat of a correlation between those and almost like like glucose intolerance or issues you know metabolism glucose some people call it type 3 diabetes like the jury's still out on that but we know that muscle greatly increases or improves insulin sensitivity so for example knowing that I would start there so what you know about the brain and what makes it healthy and youthful then go and find studies on exercise and muscle and body fat and how those things affect those particular compounds and chemicals and then from there I think you'll open up some rabbit holes to where you'll be able to go down and say okay so BDNF great for the brain wow I just read that BDNF also has effects in muscle looks like when you build muscle you increase BDNF in muscle tissue does that then increase BDNF in the brain and you can kind of it'll take you down some some some really cool rabbit which I literally think that that's like Andrew Huberman's podcast his podcast is it called Andrew Huberman is that what it is? I believe so or Huberman Lab you'll geek out on his content for sure if that's what you're interested in he puts great stuff out there well thanks for calling in thank you so much for answering my questions appreciate it, have a great day thank you she's kicking ass holy crap she's kicking ass sometimes you just don't see it for yourself you know what this highlights is what we always talk about is how much of this game is psychological how much of this? 99.9 I mean she said her clothes are feeling tighter I bet you, I mean how many times you get female class it's the butt like oh my legs and my pants around here and dude for what she's talking about in terms of like her strength gains with her legs I guarantee a lot of it's there absolutely yeah and the amount of weight that she has seen come on with the increase of 6,700 calories that's a 50% more increase in calories had she done that without what she's doing now in her old way with all the cardio and whatever that would have been like a 15 pound body fat game and no muscle gain obviously I think she was searching just for us to I think reconfirm what she was wanting which is good if that was a client and I was really having a hard time you would just shake the shit out of me after that if I shook you and you still weren't getting it through I might run a one week cut actually to literally just lower the calories lower the water and let them see like you're actually way better than you think you are we just pulled some water out and now you don't think you've put on body fat and then that would also kick the appetite back up and then we're back to the course right so I might do that if I felt like they were really strong but you'd have to be there monitoring my worry about that is why I told her not to weigh herself is that she would do that and expect to see all this fat loss it was great advice you're right I mean obviously it's different when we talk into them every day versus not but she's she's kicking ass look if you love mind pump head over to mindpumpfree.com check out all the free stuff that will give you we're such giving people you can also find all of us on social media Justin is on Instagram Justin Adam is on Instagram and I'm only on Twitter at mind pump south today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong well developed chest when I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time chest was up there with the yeah it was for me it was for me for sure I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique