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He was a little bit late so I called him and when I called him somebody else answered the phone and they told me yo your brother's been stabbed and it was only around the corner from where I was so I ran around the corner by the time I got round the corner my brother's on the floor with paramedics around and I'm talking his blood everywhere looks like a horror movie when I'm looking at my brother my brother's looked at me he says I don't think I'm going to make it I don't think I'm going to make it bro and I tell you something I can sit here and I can talk about it now but at that time I burst into tears because I think my little brother's going to die when I turned around I turned around all I said was somebody somebody's going to die for this somebody's going to die for this up until this point I've done some pretty fucking terrible things in my life like some things I'd never would never mention on this camera and I think as a myself is this karma for some of the shit I've done to people so the things I've done if it could well be what we've done we've gone to where my bro was living at the time he was with his his mrs the mother of his child and um we'd just had a shitload of guns in there bro how'd you do that we'd a lot shitload gone to this cupboard and he's talking about he had everything from you know pistols nine mils to four fives different variations of shotguns but just to go back to what I was saying I think the thing that made me snake I no longer have revenge in my mind was that you know ultimately ultimately the person that shot my brother ended up dead we're on today's guest we get three brothers from Birmingham mad mickey we've just had grillar on and we've get shake how are we lads well good man how would you be here man bless man always feeling bless just tell the younger brother story um he's like standing behind he's has a bit of protection sitting actually it's um mad story three brothers and a sister being in prison together it's pretty fucked up lads to bonus i'm like this is the first time i've actually sat across from three brothers yeah um i'm actually quite fucking intimidated you know digital giants really so brother story stab shot the younger brother as well you're the older brother you mentioned you a lot in the podcast looked up to you he says we'd have followed anything you done yeah um but we'll touch on that later as we got on in the podcast but always go back to the start of my guest lads where you grew up and how it all began we'll start with you and mickey yeah man i mean where do you want mickey mickey mad mickey mickey mad i mean wait it's just mic at the minute isn't it it's just mickey mickey unknown is mad mickey yeah man that's what that's what the old code is growing up and some people still you know some people still they're still living on that you know i mean they see me somebody say hey yo you know this guy is you know i just smile in yeah is accept the compliments how was it for you the being the older brother because i know he's got a private skill at the start yeah so our life was crazy you know because there'll be some at some some points in our life where we lived in absolute luxury and there were some points in our lives where we really lived in poverty i mean poverty poverty you know charity shops clothing that kind of poverty you know i mean my father i'm not sure if my my brother touched on this in the previous interview my father he's from sudan and he had a lot of connections and contacts in the middle east so when my father went to work he was out in the middle east now i'm going to be perfectly honest about my mom and dad's relationship it was dysfunctional at the best of times they were married for over 30 years you know i mean i was one of those we we are a family where we are lucky to have had mom and dad in the house a lot of the time but when it was going wrong it was going wrong so dad would like go back to the middle east he'd be working out there mom's over here my mom's i love my mom beautiful woman which is crazy that's probably where we got some of our crazy traits from and at those times we were living in poverty do you know i mean when things were going right dad would call for us mom kids everyone would go out to the middle east we'd be living in luxury we're living in palaces and shit man i'm telling you that we were we're we're kind of lucky because we're cultured we were able to see other parts of the world but just going back when we were in birmingham england he was born in london by the way yeah he says that i mean he's born that far from me we were living we used to live just down a road from here totes hill i'm old enough to remember all of this because i'm totes hill i'm a totesiller states right i'm old enough i'm significantly old in all these guys so these guys and i used to change their nappies and feed them their bottles and stuff because when dad was over in the middle east and his contact with my mother it's not like today where you can be what's happening somebody and like if you you couldn't afford a house phone you didn't contact anyone you get less you know i mean those are the days we're talking about late 80s early 90s so mum's outworking doing all those kinds of things i'm the one looking after the kids in the house there's times where i'm not going to school for months on end because i'm looking after my little brothers and my sister you know i mean social services coming to the house banging the door well you know we've been quiet everyone keep the noise down because if these guys come we're gone do you know i mean and that actually happened a couple of times actually actually happened a couple of times where we actually got taken by social services and my dad's had to come back into the country and my mom and my dad had to get together to get the kids back you know i mean but growing up it was hard in in Birmingham when we grew up like i said man we grew up in the ghetto we grew up in the real slums we grew up in handsworth and at that time handsworth it's still a slum in the ghetto now but it's a bit more affluent now do you know i mean there's a bit more money in the area back then it was an absolute dump and we had nothing and there were times where my mum's working literally free jobs and those free jobs are literally just paying the rent and the bills there's no food in the house when i say no food i mean there's no food in the house my mum is sneaking food in from work to bring home and at the times where she couldn't do that my little brothers are telling me they're hungry and i'm telling you i sht you not i was never seen my little brothers hungry so there were times where i went out personally they didn't know what i was doing but i was coming back with food yes you know i mean the funniest part about that though is i knew what he was doing and i completely respected it because i thought yo he's going out there and he's bringing us back food and i was i was going out i was sticking up anybody i could find did you feel like the father figure then you have to step up 100% during those times yeah and i felt like i had um i wouldn't say a weight on my shoulder but i felt like i had a extra pleasure a serious responsibility i didn't even call it pressure i just felt obliged this is my duty my younger brothers my sister i have to look after them there's nothing there's nothing more important to me in the world you know i didn't have any kids then anything like that these were the people that meant the most to me in the world and i'll be i'll go hungry but i'll be damned if my little brother's telling me it's not great i go out there and i'd rub people you know i mean literally just to go to a shop to buy food to bring home for them to eat that's how that's how real it was at certain points of our life yeah you know the oldest so you'd have seen the brunt of it more but if your dad not been there your brother griller says he used to see you fighting all the time constantly why was that the you have to defend a lot more because they were still younger and a bit naive to what was going on um yeah and i also had balls the size of watermelons so what would happen is in you know i look but i look at it now if it was like one of my little cousins or my kid doing the stuff i'd be like what the fuck are you doing are you crazy look at all these people come on you can't can't fuck around with these guys but at the time my mentality was hey you're a human being you know i'm a human being too we can either both bleed you're gonna bleed even if i i tell you something i'll go to hospital but i'm telling you if it takes me five years i'm coming i'm gonna get you back and that's how i kind of lived you know i mean and the reason why i would say that i was in constant just war i mean war sometimes it was serious life and death shit was because in our area where we grew up in gang the gang mentality was rife like it still is really it still is it still is really and back then it's not like now where there was all these subsections of little crews that kind of are in the area there was you were either in this crew or you weren't and if you're not you're an enemy but i wasn't i wasn't we we've never been in a gang never ever just all families all family and we've been affiliated because we grew up in a certain area we may know the guys i live down a road we were never we were never in a group we kind of created our own thing right we get into that door we we we can get into that we'll get into that touch markers yeah we can touch on that and touch on a technicality of that but the fact of the matter was it was all family i mean we just labeled a crew or because you knew the guy who grew up next door he just happens to be in a gang you know that guy you've been playing football with him since you were seven do you know i mean so you were affiliated but we were never in a gang i personally was never in a gang i never claimed the gang in my life that's how i was explaining you know i was breaking down like yo in one household how much people there is bro like our family is actually massive yeah even though it looked the same way this is like a bunch of cousins and brothers and to get what i'm saying if you're from the ends if you're from hands were do you know this because you know who the families are like the main there's like four five main families and you'd know who they are you know what i'm saying so the in-house made sense but if you're outside of this you just look like you look you maybe look like you're just one big crew you know i mean but um what was happening was i was never part of a crew it was kind of stuck on me like so you with us or you're not i'm not and then the the ghetto is governed by intimidation and psychology that's the fact of the matter that's that's a fundamental truth right if these guys can't rope you in they use intimidation and psychology to make you scared enough to submit i'm an alpha male look at me that look like i'm going to submit to somebody never in your life didn't happen so what would happen is i'm just now in beef i'm just in beef with the guys that i live next door to and the doorstep yeah so in my own place where i'm living i'm having to fight every day and some of those some of those fights weren't just me with my fist fighting i'm like yo these guys could kill me here so i will kill one of these guys first that was just my mentality i didn't i didn't think of the consequence i didn't think of what i could do what was going to happen to that person their family or me or my family it was just i'm not going out like that why did you go to prison for the first time i went to prison for the first time because i tried to kill someone yeah i tried to kill someone i was probably for the first time when june 15 16 so i've been used to what eight nine yeah man we was i remember i remember i was in primal bro man i used to go to fucking the business to out the vending machine on the prison business bro what was that place i remember i used to go Liverpool there's Liverpool man i went rugby yeah bro because we were where we were i'm leaving i used to go up there and then i went to end up in swinford hall i went to a few you know you could say you're on tour how hard was it with your dad not being there did you feel the shackles were off that you could you know what was get away with more what was funny was so i wouldn't say so because in my mum and dad's relationship my my mother probably wore the pants yeah and that's no disrespect to my father my father is a quiet man and my mum is a fiery woman so i'd say the person who you were scared of was my mother because my mother used to whoop my ass i mean i used to get fucked up to the point where i tell my mum now i'm like you should be in jail woman do you know i mean you should be in jail do you know i mean because of the way that we used to i used to get battered do you know i mean and that probably contributed to my anger my issues in my rebellion yeah yeah definitely 100 percent and um but that's not to say that if my father wasn't there and that's he and i'm not saying he wasn't there i'm just saying that he wasn't able to be then the capacity that perhaps he needed to be to gauge is better yeah how was it for your senior big brother going to prison and seeing him fighting all the time you know why it was it's kind of like it's one of them things if you don't know any different you just think it's normal right yeah so it's kind of one of them things where i just thought oh this is just how it goes like this is just what people do even when he went to prison don't get me wrong man we're mad upset because um it was we used to idolize my brother you know i mean anything he did we wanted to do anything he's interested in we was interested in and it was just one of them things so when he did go that was that was a bit traumatic however seeing the fight in the everything else it's kind of like well that's just that's just how it is right yeah it's funny it made me want to hurry up and grow up yeah listening to your brother saying traumatic and looking up to you and followed you anything you did you ever feel like you were part of them going to prison also 110 percent and i've said this to them before you know in our later years as i'm growing up i personally i've had personal regrets because i know for i know that being the role model i was to my brothers and them idolizing me in the way that they did that of course we're going to follow every single thing i did i set a terrible example for my brothers you know i mean it's one of those things where i think to myself had i done things a little bit differently the things that my brothers had gone gone through that had never had gone through you know my little brothers here who i've said this before i used to change his nappies i used to feed him his food he almost died twice one of the times he was bleeding in front of me you know i mean i'm not sure how deep he got into it and he said to you i'll tell you something now we were meant to meet each other in the city center of Birmingham and he was a little bit late so i called him and when i called him somebody else answered the phone and they told me yo your brother's been stabbed and it was only around the corner from where i was so i ran around the corner by the time i got around the corner my brother's on the floor with paramedics around and i'm talking this blood everywhere looks like a horror movie when i'm looking at my brother my brother's looked at me he says i don't think i'm gonna make it i don't think i'm gonna make it bro and i tell you something i can sit here and i can talk about it now but at that time i burst into tears because i think my little brother's gonna die when i turned around i turned around all i said was somebody somebody's gonna die for this somebody's gonna die for this and when i said that there's a there's a policeman i'm talking about one like a detective right beside me he's come straight over to me just look they know who we were at the time straight up the new who we were at the time because they they considered us as the upper echelon of some of the activity that was going on in the city at the time you know what i mean and they've come up to me literally and said look we just we don't want a blood bath we don't want a blood bath they knew specifically who why it was as well so they came up to me we don't want a blood bath can we just try and keep this carb keep this carb on the upper echelon on the floor dying do you know what i mean so um just going into that a bit i'm not sure how much you went into it but like you said was going to go meet him there and then um in town as we bro and one of our cousins one of our jonge cousins you know what i mean and then uh it's funny because i had an argument with one of these guys who's a someone on the other side you bro yeah he was considered you know a rival gang member or whatever so we seen this guy he was on the bus said yo there's them guys man let's go have a word you feel me so we've got to go on this bus and obviously we got into a bit of a rock is there's loads of them i mean it's about eight nine of them at the time there's just three of us we're just scrapping it out he's gone to the front he's it looks like we're just getting blows and then by the time we come off the bus obviously we're having them up you know i mean like they're dead or carrying and shit not to try and sound her over but you know that's just how it went then was coming off the bus it's going to turn around but my brother didn't even realize he was bleeding man he's like yo what's he literally was like yo what's that i thought i thought was my hand yeah he was like yo what's that then he turned around when i've turned around bro oh the blood in his neck yeah who was squirting so high into the sky bro it fuck me oh it just looked unreal you know what i mean i'm talking yeah it looked fake man it was just talking the pressure it was just squirting as high as you could fucking see into the air and when does that put pressure on you then you know i gotta tell you something as well so when he was in surgery because they had to go surgery they're telling me he's touching gold with him and i'm sitting in i'm thinking to myself the only reason these guys even do half of this shit is because of me because at this point now i'm no longer the role model and the only person these guys look up to there's like 50 people that look up to this point and listen to my every word and i'm like i'm sitting there thinking my baby brother could die i'm here at this hospital there's 50 guys asking me what we doing is and what are we doing but then there's another part of me saying up until this point i've done some pretty fucking terrible things in my life like things i'd never would never mention on this camera and i think to myself is this karma for some of the shit i've done to people so the things i've done it could well be but then i also knew that the the way in which again these situations are governed the ghetto the hood this mentality this rivalry that was going on in the city at the time if nothing happens for this it's over as in people will just be constantly doing this to you they'll be constantly doing this to you because if they if they see there's no there's no repercussion if they see there's no like at least that an attempt then you're a victim that's that's how that's how that's how it works that's how it works so even when you're thinking man this ain't worth it even if you were thinking this isn't worth it look people are dying people are almost dying over this you're just pressured into a situation where something's got to be done and we we certainly we certainly took that very seriously do you know mean we certainly took that very seriously i mean do a time get into a point there like it's funny because you know we've been saying like i just maybe think about um when we think about shit that's normal en obviously my bro you know is he's critical right now at that point and um what we've done we've gone to where my bro was living at the time he was with his his mrs mother of his child and um we just had a shitload of guns in there bro how'd you do that with a lot shitload gone to this cupboard and he's took him out he had everything from you know pistols nine mils to four fives different variations of shotguns rado terminator we used to give them names so we didn't just say what it was called like peeps who if i said yo rado now man would know what that is if i said yo bring up the terminator we'd never called say something by over the phone yeah like no even if we were just around each other so like you know if we in the crowd bro i might say something these people don't know my mind about you know i was just talking about you know what i'm saying so now you can go maybe you you know want to go fetch that or something everyone else don't know who we're just talking say yo remember the um what's the one eastwood yeah which was um cork 45 revolver cork 45 it was a 44 rifle you know um lee reaction yeah called eastwood he's called eastwood because he used to just see it in the cowboy movies right so it's always like yo but remember to set that point where we were just there loading up counting how much ammunition you got for some of these these gats because some of them are hard to get and just thinking yo some like yo someone's getting it you know what i mean but again going back to one of my original points it's like that was just normal bro like that wasn't that was normal you know what i mean you really wasn't even raised yeah it was just normal and i spoke to grill about it's the effect it has on other people like your mum to see her son her baby son in horseport potentially 50 50 of dying and use want to retaliate and do that to somebody else's son it's never ending i tell you something about my mother as well she's a tough old lady she must have to be i mean the toughest bird you'll ever see i mean my mum will i didn't realise that until way later my mum is like a tough lady man and she i think rubbed off on us because it made us tough almost unafectionate just just calculated and everything we did and um i'm just it's funny though because see my mum here is the youngest out of her siblings but i would say her kids though are the most like probably revered serious yeah the most the most the cornerstone yeah even though my mum's supposed to be youngest in you know is female and then suddenly we just come you know i'm saying and bring a different where did that mentality come from them from just three kids just trying to survive to then becoming a violent vicious prison well i think the household in every situation we grew up yeah we grew up we grew up in a tough house with a tough lady in a tough area but you didn't realise what you told you girl my mum mum yeah you made you you grow with my mum girl you're going to understand who you are yeah if that makes sense when you go out onto the road bro no one's going to be able to tell you something yeah if you grow around my mum bro you are going to go out there and no one's going to be able to tell you what it's the weirdest thing because she swears every other word she smokes 40 fags a day you know i mean she'll sit down there she'll be talking to you like this like you want her lads but she speaks that strength into you like you'll believe you're the greatest of whatever is if my mum was your mother you'd believe right now there is not a single podcast in the world that is it can even rub shoulders with you you will leave this place like i'm the fucking best podcast that's ever fucking lived and that's kind of how it was with us and also had a kind of a funny relationship with mum because even though she's to kick shit out of me all the time she never actually to kick shit out of me if any of the bad things i was doing it was never for that it was of a random shit do you know i mean that i felt like i didn't need to get the shit down before yeah bro and i could tell my mum every single thing like i told her everything so they should never be shocked if it came to her on a doorstep do you know i mean that's one thing well i couldn't do everything you know with us with my mum we would just open if anything i probably didn't say to my dad yeah which is weird because you think we boys and so would say this shit to our dad who says that would you ever have a discussion with your dad about the life she's led to try and get some closure in because as men it's hard too much pride too much ego nobody wants to step forward first and address the situation but there's also a lot of shit uncovered that needs to be addressed i believe i certainly haven't done you a cent i don't think so certainly haven't i've spoke i've touched on little things as i've gotten older but it's definitely a sit down people need to have because you'd be surprised man yo you'd be surprised trust me yeah i imagine about a lot of communication is key for anybody to relieve some pain and stress and trauma like to watch free suns all behind prison at the same time that's some fucked up shit lads well it's not like it's not like i it's not like we're in prison though and it's hard to say it's a weird one it's not like we was in prison and just was there for each other and had each other's back like that the scenario was when like that it was like him over there doing what he's doing yeah he's on his journey fucking survival to me i'm over here doing my and it's only later that we were able to come back together but it's not even he's unsuccessful he's a still successful he's a still very well educated he's a still on the ball it's mad how he's still went down that other fucking route though when he's clearly focused on any other thing he's been at the top of your game a hundred percent you see i think it's environment yeah devil would you though yeah and i don't even think even you realize this is much though you see when i was younger though yeah when i saw everything he was doing or scenarios he was in i would think to myself yo i want to hurry up and get older and put myself in a position to be able to defend too i was in scenarios with him when i was young and i couldn't do anything apart from watch you know what i'm saying yeah if something happened to bro i would have just had to watch that so it's kind of one man down at that time in my mind bro in my mind this was like a personal mission for me i didn't say nothing to no one but i knew in my head i'm gonna grow up bro and i'm gonna be a certain way and then it's like with the way i'm looking at him anyway like i said with whatever he's doing i'm looking and i'm thinking yo i like doing that thing i don't know if i fucking like doing it bro i just know he does it i'm going to say i'm going to go have a look at that too you know what i'm saying so you know i said you know if my brother i tell you i tell you what went wrong yeah this is what went wrong when he was on the road if he had grabbed me and then said no no no come with me still well here you're gonna go do these spots over here instead with me but over here don't do this i did that thing and i took it serious yeah the problem was though yeah i'm looking up to him but he ain't bringing me with him so even though i was on the road i didn't go on the road with him yeah so he ain't bringing me with him but i still want to be on the road but you're still a reflection of him so he ain't bringing me there's two different generations two different generations in my mind this is how i'm seeing it though i'm just seeing it like yo he ain't bringing me then if this person over here comes now this is another older person from the hood who i'm looking at in a certain way and they say hey come over here a second i'm gonna be like all right cool because in my mind i've still got this point to prove to my bro and it's crazy as well you know because half of those dudes i never liked them this is real shit like i'm on the road when i'm like 15 looking for people bro and i'm like when i think about it now i was like 15 16 bro literally getting the call like yo you got that there all right i'm coming to pick you up you know i'm saying and this is all the man bro and this is literally because though i'm thinking in my mind you know this is this is a person that can get me to the point i want to be at you know you know personally personally he knows this now because i'll tell him this now i always felt like those guys were trying to target my little brother because it could never get me in the trap and appealing i'm growing kind of thing so that's how i always felt but did you see them though as obviously but you've seen the mistakes your brother was making by being with them but you were like them also by exact by this time i can't say what am i going to say to him i don't do that and this is probably he did that every every tuesday and thursday well you know the craziest thing though i literally remember him one time though you speaking to me in my virgin and actually say because you know it's not a case of him not saying you know he said to us you know yo don't do a b n c don't chill with rare rare don't do this i literally remember walking walking off here within hachers yard and i literally remember walking off bro and thinking to myself use that the top of the stairs right i don't if you remember this he's at the top of the stairs and you literally spoke to me in that other red skinny and then basically after you finish saying it bro i swear down i've walked off and i thought to myself thought to myself yeah i'm definitely still going to do this road thing like but he full on gave a big old lecture and i was like i got this mission in my head bro i need to be i'm going to become how i'm going to become so i can do what i need to do you know what i'm saying and even though i had these older peeps who almost like saw this road potential in me bring me over here and say yo come do this show me how to do this and all these things in my mind bro i weren't really being it's like this sounds weirder even though they had their intention bro in my mind i had my intention i wasn't actually being used if that makes sense it's like i was but i was actually mature like bro to actually understand nana i'm getting the information i was on work experience like now you know what i'm saying i literally understood though i'm actually getting the knowledge i need to get to become who i want to become you get what i'm saying yeah it's funny because obviously when my two bros talk because this this is the funny thing because here's the oldest then it's me then it's the one that looks the fucking biggest yeah so the the thing is even though when i say my big bro is in the most active stages of maybe what he was doing i probably went around then because he was a bit young but whence he came out of jail we was pretty close so there's a lot of shit that my bro used to do yeah it was weird because we're only one year apart but them two were close so so what's really weird is that i'd have been with my big bro doing shit but on the flip side we're so close in age like we're just we got the same peer group like so we'll be on the road close together every day doing shit as well so i was but i went with him no yeah and i think that was mainly because i was i was protective of him but i was like i shall be bro super like i don't want him to do anything you know i mean anything to the point where like i could get a call i could be anywhere get a call and shakes in trouble i'm like okay i'm relaxed i'll go down there let's handle that if i got a call that he's in trouble i've shut places down because he was in there and i got told there's like the places don't exist anymore they're closed down they're no longer open because i got a call that he's in trouble there you know i mean and that's me when i'm trying to chill i'm trying to i'm like i want to try this family thing now i want to try and get off all this stuff and i get a call saying i'm like my my baby brother no no no coming down there now the places are no longer open they don't trade anymore you know i mean and that's because of my i've only just had to adjust my way of thinking to be like he's an adult now with his own kids because you know he's have you got any brothers yeah young brothers younger sister he's always still seen him as the baby you don't ever think of them as this big grown adult that's doing her own thing and it took me a while to adjust my way of thinking for particularly for my youngest brother you know i mean and particularly because of the things he went through you know i mean yeah we've we've almost losing his life twice do you think that's a test from god though to give us the kick up they asked to then stop doing what users are doing i think it was definitely a challenge but i think it did at the time you got to understand we were young and not much guidance so we kind of just did what we thought was right at the time even then was that mentality of did you die bro you're good man you're good though right come on let's get back to you that's we have never i'm going to tell you something the other day i was speaking to my brother i don't know if you've mentioned this and i had to say to him you know what brother i've never ever asked you if you're all right i've never asked you say bro are you okay do you want to talk about this what do you what do you go through because our mentality being in a girl being being raised like we're in the like military where you're where soldiers in the street like that's how it was just like we didn't die brush that shit off let's let let's go let's go let's go let's go and that's how well you just have to be tough you know i mean so we never even asked i've never even asked him if he's all right it's only the other day i asked him and i don't think he even answered me the craziest thing it's probably shocked by it though it's it's it's a thing where we never even thought about it he's never had therapy he's never had we've never asked him if he's all right there's never been any guidance or counseling nothing it was just he's just brushed that shit off brushed that shit if you've got a few scars the added character to your face you're good you're right let's go do you know what i mean and that was it speaking about even you now use free speaking you probably don't realise it but after that you should probably feel a big weight off your shoulders because you're speaking some truth man you're speaking some fucking facts like he's a probably i don't know it's different like things are very rare you get opportunities like say to communicate in this way you know so like so me and my bro yeah we used to clash a lot yeah when i was like a couple years back bro like we serious used to clash like sometimes i sometimes i didn't even understand how these two children because i think to myself bro how the fuck like i don't know bro we just didn't go together you get me crazy spot though is it's actually almost like teaching someone to be a certain way then not liking the way you've taught them to be he's felt like a failure back to usher that's why he holds his head so let me show you something let's say he said something to me then i would talk what i'm saying but you see the thing is but if i would do that yeah then we'd get into something with the truth of the scenario is i've been taught to be someone to have to do that fucking have the balls my balls grew bro we were taught that way and then i'm not used to anyone fucking doing that so then we clashing we clashing because the way you told me to be bro you know what i'm saying so now well it's funny because these are only things you learn later yeah we did we did we figured it out when did you get into me me make it i got into you know what it's funny i got into mma in about 2000 and what seven about all seven that's when i first walked into the gym you want to know the truth and i'm quite candid about this right so how i actually got into it was totally by accident i got to have a fight but it wasn't even really a fight what happened was i can scrap i've always been able to scrap right and i walked up to a co-ed we just finished what was doing football we used to organise like little football games used to get some of the guys want to get old together yeah we used to get some of the guys from the hood together and be like yo let's go to to oaklands we didn't even pay we just bus open to them you know what i'm talking about lower road lower road lower road everyone everyone that knows knows there's like the astral turf pitch and you know we're from the ghetto we're not paying like we're just walking there and the guys would just have to be like yep we'll open the gate let us through um we finished playing the game walking down the road and there was somebody in a car and i thought i knew the guy so i've walked over to the guy and i was like yo what's up but there's about what 15 of us walking yeah he's just stopped outside the car and punched me straight in the face he's straight punched me in the face but when he's punched me in the face he's put his dukes up and he's like head movement head bobbing off thinking what the fuck's going on here it's like mike tyson's in front of me now don't get me twisted there's about 10 of us with shanks on us and all kind of stuff so even i've gone to whip out my shank and i thought fucking no i realized it's a misunderstanding anyway i remember going home thinking i know it was a misunderstanding but that shit ain't never happening to me again where i feel like i need to shank someone and they've got their fists up do you know what i mean and the guy look like he knew what he's doing like he was tasty guys it's a situation yeah guys it's a situation where you should always feel like listen even if you're gonna shank you up bro we should always be able to beat you up the action so it would be like a choice like you know what i chose to do that but i could always punch you up like you weren't able to do that because i can't beat you also yeah that's something scared i need to do that you feel me so the guy's thrown his fist i chose some head movement guy looked tasty and sharp i was like fucking no bro i don't know if i can i don't know if i can one i won this geezer so i remember i went back i thought that's never going to happen to me where i feel like i can't have a one i won fight because it's never happened to me before i've always just been able to scrap i thought fuck this i've gone back and uh looks on the internet in them days it's like it's not like now we can just look on your phone it was like one guy on the street with a computer in the internet so you go to that one guy's house and you all sit around his computer and i didn't even know what it was called man i was typing in no rules fighting no holds bad fighting in the fucking death matches or kind of shit i'm typing into this thing do you know what i mean and uh eventually a guy named Vita Belfour came up and i don't know if you know Vita Belfour it's like an MMA legend former UFC champion and he was kicking the absolute fucking shit out of people no gloves on kicking him in the head i was like oh this is what i got to learn man and uh i walked into the gym and you know the funny thing about it is the first time i walked into there was no culture anything it was just the bags of me and i remember i was kind of teaching myself like how to punch out to kick i didn't know any of this shit and i was going there twice a day i was going in the morning and i was going in the evening and this is what actually made me make the transition from being on the street to eventually being in a gym and no longer being on the street no longer being active and i was doing that by myself religiously because i remember just thinking no one's going to be able to fucking touch me again i'm going to kick this shit out anyone who comes near me and eventually i made a transition from there and i started training with the guys over at K-star Birmingham just a world renowned gym they do a lot of tie boxing but they do some MMA i eventually became an amateur champion with the guys at K-star and my coach i mean here's the judge let's go back a little bit when i first walked into K-star i thought i could throw a punch in a kick and i was getting this shit kicked out of me there by the actual fighters eventually i started picking it up pretty quickly and the coach at the time guppy madahar he turned and gone you know you're pretty good at this man you know you should probably fight and i was like get the fuck out of it have you seen what those guys do to each other in that cage there was no way i'm stepping i don't want that to happen to me a couple months later he's come back to me like bro you i reckon you really should fight as a guppy you're gonna have to get the fuck out of here i mean i just i'm not doing it a few months later persuaded me so now back then i didn't even tell people i was fighting my first few fights no one even knew i was fighting grabbed my shorts the gym bag my brother shake my missus at the time my coach in a little fucking car three four hour drives wherever the fucking fights are just turn up and scrap and the first fight i turned up kick the shit out of guy like a minute and a half so i was like that guy must have been fucking shit but we did the shit out of him for a minute and a half it must be wank gone away come back a few weeks later another fight kick the shit out of guy in like two minutes like okay he must be shit too like why are you guys feeding me shit guys come on went back another show kick the shit out of guy again like inside around i'm like you know what the guy coach might have a point here you know i'm destroying these guys and from there i believed it and i went on to be amateur level i went on to be like five time national champion two different weight classes heavyweight and light heavyweight um i'm still an active one on to pro met still an active pro fighter um i was still currently signed to cage warriors which is like a subsidiary it's like a partner of the ufc and the jim i train at renegade of a may um i've got guys like leon edwards there yeah i spoke to leon a couple of days ago i did you i said there you go leon it was there it's right net yes i'm one of his main training partners man i want to be sparring partners by the way yeah yeah for the second so jeff it didn't fight get caught up no yeah it was the fighting again in june oh is it got caught up and yeah yeah they're going to be the first bonus i'm one of his main i'm one of his main training partners for that so can you at your age still fit still strong could you have a go to the ufc i could i could do for me and my my says i'm 37 i'm going to be 38 soon so i've probably got a few good years left in me two three good still fucking look good but man you're in great shape man i tell you what these guys are getting younger it's not like him when i started trust me bro when i started emma was a a new sport everybody was was young the guys weren't getting into the game yet leon was one of the few guys who got into it when he was like 15 16 when i started i was in my mid 20s i mean i didn't have a fight till i was about 30 it's not scary to know how your mindset used guys know the potential of the music is well with the names that he's mentioned there lily storms his cake oak legends in the air a few a few to put a few to focus your energies into something positive exactly you could have changed the fucking world man changed the game precisely i mean we still can't because i i believe that as long as it's still a star of a new process i believe that if there's as long as there's breath in your body you can still do something nelson mandela was in jail for 27 years of his life he came out and he changed the fucking world you know apartheid in south afrika stopped you know i mean that's the way i see it um and it went on to be the rainbow nation but for for me when once i had come off the world started going to the gym and it was like mate if you don't keep on going to the gym the guys in the gym are going to kick your ass do you know what i mean um so you don't like getting beat then do you hate getting beat do you always hate getting beat in life like always worry that something can potentially beat you i don't i don't worry about it i look you know what to be fair of you i'm going to be frank my last two fights i tried to drop down to midway i actually lost those to what i believe is lesser competition because i can beat those guys but i tried to i tried something new tried to go down a little weight so i'm going back up weight class uh well didn't lose a fight but um i'm not afraid of failure or defeat because it's not the failure of defeat that that that you're judged by or that makes you it's what you do when you get back up yeah which is a main thing i mean it's not the it's not the thousand times you fail that people care about it's the one time you succeed that's what history judges you on so you're changing your life in a gorilla get shot no we still no i was still when gorilla when gorilla got shot i was trying to kill people yeah so i mean i'm gonna i'm gonna be straight with you i'm gonna be straight with you there there's i mean when when he got stabbed we went out for the same thing i mean we can do you remember the time when i mean we can talk about this now saying this shit usually goes one thing of the other running yeah it brings you in deeper or you get out and we didn't get out that's that's that's the honest thing yeah that's that's the honest truth when um when he when he got stabbed i remember it was even we were we were going out regularly trying to yeah man well bro i did something to anyone even if i thought they had something to do with the the person like as in like it was in a picture with them it was one time when we was out when we were out we we we you know got your massive gloves you wherever you got on you trying to do something to somebody so we were there a pistol on each of us we've hopped out we thought we saw people we thought we saw when top of hands were top of hands were and we've realized oh it's not who we think it is it's some guys that we know so we actually get into a conversation so remember this is just normal like we're not worried we don't have no entreneling going listen at the time though at the time remember i told you we go back the police have said that we don't want a bloodbath the police are very aware that this whole thing can go south so i'm talking this armed convoys everywhere everywhere driving through driving through the area i wanted this this this this is what's happened yeah we're there talking to the to your man he's one of our one of our mates he's asking how he is because he's still covering you filming but like he said we got the call that you know some guys are there so we've gone there like like he did rightly say that we both you know we're ready for the situation but he's got his back turn yeah so i can see up the road arme convoys coming down now if i was a police officer i would have stopped us because we got ski masks we didn't wear we had ski masks on our head bro we look like just rolled up we look like we're trying to lever gloves it's middle of the day mine middle of the day mine yeah ski mask rolled up yeah lever gloves on black tout old trainers on man i would have fucking stopped like wat the fuck are you guys doing bro you know what i mean you look suspicious bro this arve convoy comes up in a shit you nut it is crawling as fast as a man does a slow walk bro there's about six about six cars it was they're all they're all hanging out the whip mp5's and all yeah and i'm just looking at this and i'm not being funny but i was in a mentality that just like my bro kind of had and we all have which is we're all men in it so we all can bleed so the truth is of the matter if if there was like one or two is like yeah fuck it game and it like let's just see how this goes but when you see six cars and everybody's got automatic weapons and you're thinking to yourself i got about nine in here and i ain't really practiced shooting the way the way that these guys are these man these men are they're serious bro and they'll be sure this is serious we're going to die and i'm just looking like bro well how the fuck's this going to go so i'm looking at my bro at the time i'm saying yo yo yo i say yo listen listen listen don't turn around don't turn the fuck around don't turn the fuck around the arve convoy is coming right now he hasn't turned around yet so say yo just carry on talk to my man act like act like you fucking just talking so just act normal said we carry on talking like yeah yeah yeah i'm laughing joking parts doing this man parts doing this and the truth was i wasn't really even worried about even if we got arrested at the time and you know taken in because i figured it out you know what i mean well at the time you would have got caught with the risk we're taking firearm it would have been maybe five four five years four five years it would have been minor at the time it's probably more now so we're thinking i'm thinking that's not too bad the problem was is your man had something on him which would have got him life are we going to need or something silence sir yeah that adds to a five ten on nine well at the time also i'm on a lifetime ban from yeah that's how ammunition is real what have you had on these so yeah i was going right from the basics i was just thinking it's fucked i was just thinking for fuck sake man you know what i mean but then this fucking convoy fucking crept past man the magic finger was the amount of time shit like that has happened of standard do you think he's with the short back who knows man who knows at the time i certainly wasn't going to run away they're definitely shot after you 100% yeah they're definitely shot after you but i mean a couple of those situations haven't to us before literally same things similar kind of things and when he's um one time went to go test something and oh shit and you know we didn't even get to because you know we started walking we couldn't have been out of the house for like you spied them no right couldn't have been out of the house for like 40 seconds bro was like walk round the corner the luck of it yo we walked round the corner up the road a little bit was it you or you were the the police of yeah it was you yeah so boom no you had it i have a problem okay so we're walking now we ain't got nowhere near this place to go test this out we said we were going to why is it the fed card that pulls up yeah fed card what are you walking nanan the pulled up on the spine jumped out imagine we're walking bro walking just doing nothing you know but yo the police car just pulls straight up to us we're like oh shit because he's got this on him they say you don't want to stop and search because they're saying no we can smell weed the funniest thing is your man smokes weed now but at the time it even smoked so none of us none of us smoked none of us smoked so we're saying what the fuck you could smell it though but the funniest thing is he fought faster there's a couple of guys walking on the road the funniest thing you could smell we could smell the weed in the air so we're thinking fuck where's that smell come from we don't have it on us like i can understand why they were coming up to us to start what we use in prison for what you're in for me me i've been in for a temp murder a couple of times you know he's been in for similar things how do you think your life would be now if griller was dead because my uncle's lost two brothers to murder and my mum's lost two brothers to murder and it kind of fucking destroys your family like is her blessed to still be here land definitely i think it definitely would have i tell you something as well what made me because i even after i kind of stepped away you know lma changed my life my kids i think the biggest turning point was having my children because ever my son my son's over there the tall fella used to walk in the room yeah i can't believe it right it's like my son right do you know i mean so i didn't want him i mean he's i'll tell you something he's listening to this shit now i think it's probably the first time he's ever heard it i never ever wanted him to know anything i had ever done in my life or anything that i was associated with so i began to change in my life because you know you've always you know you met the meet those guys that they're prick because of who their big brother is or they're a prick because of who their dad is or some shit i didn't want that guy i didn't want my son to be that guy so i taught him a whole different set of values you know i mean and i think one of the biggest things that changed me was having my children and realizing okay these guys can end up exactly like me or worse i was i was smart enough to navigate certain situations and i've never been seriously hurt but look how look how close the person next to me is that did get seriously hurt and i think one of the other things is even when he those things did happen to him and even though i was stepping away there were situations i still went and did i didn't even tell my brothers about because revenge was still in my mind the other day we were talking i was talking to my brother and i was telling him my situation where i went to someone's home by myself i went into the house with murder on my mind to find that person didn't live there anymore and when i spoke to him he was going you never told me you did that i was like yeah i did that he goes well no you must have been fucking serious because no i wasn't even with you i was on my own you know i mean and so all of those things i was still doing even though i said i stepped away revenge is still in my mind like these people have done these things to my brother i still want to do something too the craziest thing is though i feel like i feel like even if he's to turn around you know like as much as we know each other as brothers yeah the amount of stuff he's done i don't know everything he's done i don't know he don't know because we got to understand as well is that um i think my bro's touching on it is you know we've all been prison we've all been prison at different times you know what i mean so there's times when i'm no longer around when he's doing something but we us are there's times when he's not around but us two are there's times when i'm not around and they are you feel me so it's like saying that one time we were awesome one time all of us were gone so we all had our own little paths and journeys that we took you know what i mean he's ever like never none has had counselling none has ever spoke to anybody to understand that it's funny it's funny though you know because you kind of took it all in your straight yeah the only the only time i've ever had counselling for anything and i can talk about this now by the time it was very difficult it had a little bit and it was when my daughter passed away so you know my daughter passed away she was very young and i had bereavement counselling for that but even that was tough to do because from an environment where you don't talk about your pain do you know what i mean but just to go back to what i was saying i think the thing that made me snake i no longer have revenge on my mind was that you know ultimately ultimately the person that shot my brother ended up dead so i don't know so did they use a get wrapped in from that straight away you know what's i tell you wat funny i'm going to explain something to you we we we the reason we we always suspected who did what they did but i'm going to tell you something right now yeah you know when that happened to him i'm going to tell you something they say you know cop as a corrupt as fuck right they've come to me personally i told me who did it they've told me they've come to me they've come to me and they've told me who made the cop who opened the door who fired the shots what a vehicle they were in but they said we can't they didn't because nobody's talked my brother never spoke about anything that's happened to him they were like okay but and it came literally and told me everything i knew everyone that was involved you know i mean so it's funny how in in one sense we had the police that were apart ask for how long you know i mean i mean for that situation he ended up with a a charge for was it the same one where you ended up with the charge for ammunition oh yeah so so basically um what's happened is um well fucking out might as i say it now yeah so basically what's happened that's happened to my bro you feel me and it's kind of like you know what and when that happened with my bro when he got shot you understand that it wasn't even rivals that we considered like yo that opposition this was a whole new thing this was like all internal yeah this is guys that we grew up with we saying yo the fuck is this the whole scenario never made sense yeah it didn't make sense because as far as we concerned we was we were talking about people that are closest family like is in they will be at family events and shit you feel me so it was kind of like this don't make exactly like you said it don't make sense for me looking from outside is if somebody was stirring the pot somebody was feeding somebody information and mixing things even with the police that's their way cleaning stuff up somebody gets murdered somebody gets laid for the off these are off it's crazy is crazy because and this is what i kind of again now myself i'm not really active like that you know what i mean like i've done a lot of jail whatever things have changed but there's shit that makes you think yeah and this is a scenario that makes you think because my brother was shot like he said they know what's happened they know what he did it obviously we're not going to fucking talk you know what's going on man if you're going to do your job do your job if not is what it is well one thing i do know is they seem to have a particular interest in what we do yeah for instance yeah you happen to my bro i said you know what fuck this we gotta we gotta make it send a message yeah en my bro sometimes just think that i'm the crazy one like i'm cool chill back but it could be a bit extreme sometimes you know what it is we're going to go get not a normal we're going to get something really heavy here to send a really serious message you know what i mean like so we can't be talking about firing some pistols of something you know what i mean but i send a serious message here you know what i mean so i've arranged for that to happen um for whatever the reason was um it's quite funny because my bro was supposed to come check me at the time so i could go get you know the fucking heavy artillery yeah the serious piece of heavy artillery really you know what i mean it's when the uzzies came out on that well 762 ammunition we talking you know what i mean serious stuff yeah so we saying yeah what your man was supposed to be there for me to have it it's supposed to be with me yeah now it's supposed to be with me today so we can go do the thing police first thing in the morning now i tell you what i'm going to the fucking i'm coming from the gym are you coming from the gym just when the when the when the yard when they came to the yard man so so remember you supposed come to the yard the night before so could go pattern it so could go grab the stuff and then the next day we got raided so i'm supposed to have it yeah i was there we were supposed a different time oh okay us we got raided a lot of time but this time was full you know what i mean so we got raided literally the very next day now it makes it easy to believe bro out of there's a fucking leak somewhere did they fucking know listen it's just by the chance i got that we don't have it and i'll tell you the truth i tell you the truth bro i'm not going to go to jail for something like that bro you would have to you'd have to do your thing and just you know go out like bloody scarface or some shit you know what i mean because you're not going to see the light of day if you get arrested with something like that bro but they came there the day the raided the house specifically for firearms and ammunition and i'm thinking the fuck how the fuck did you know to come here the exact day when it's supposed to be here right now for the firearms and ammunition 100% the got the ammunition there's more snatches now than there is fucking police and this is what i'm saying this is why i said it made me start reevaluating things so much because you think that we're all batten on the same field and there's these silent set of rules and they start to realise actually it's only us fuckers following the rules you know what i mean so let me explain something about my uncles on my mom's side in there there they're as bad as us you know what i'm saying so we're getting coached we're straight we're getting coached there's never anybody there's always that one person in our family that distance itself from the family you think he's a fucking weird though but he's the one that's clever had one uncle you're always encouraging me to do better and that's my uncle jeffrey carrest his soul and that's not to say my other uncles didn't love me and care for me and want the best for me but they grew up in the same environment so they know he's the only one who ever spoke here and always kept it like positive he always yeah he always but not even just positive though he always kept it the talk on you know a certain path it was never randomly going off on the street shit like he never did so my uncle was the guy who he grew up in the same environment but that's my mother's brother and he ended up being the only person who went to university got a law degree opened his own law firm and became the first rest of farian lawyer in the whole of the uk so he's quite renowned like you can you can google this guy when he opened up his office the first couple of years has become a millionaire do you know what i mean a few years down a line some some things happen you end up having a heart attack and he passed away but see the family members when something happens that's a lot of envy envy what a jealousy because somebody's made it out that was that happens there was 100 percent and he kept on and you know even though he moved out and he was in an affluent area and he by all by all you know standards had made it dat was still his home he still came back into the girl still played music everyone rated him as well because you see my uncle i would be with him like every day because we went gym together and you know what's crazy is as much as he made it out is as much as he wanted the as much as he would seem like he didn't care about getting the approval of the peeps who were almost he wanted the approval from the people he did you don't need it from because it wasn't to respect to love him for what he did because he was everything he did he kind of was doing it for us everybody in the ghetto wherever you had a court case police they went to my uncle my uncle represented everybody defended us so he was leaving a bloodline for people after he passed away and i had another police i didn't even know what to do i'm going to say no no because the only person i ever called is my uncle yeah do you know what i mean and as many times as we went in jail and got arrested and stuff we had definitely been in jail longer and done more time for things because we had two different signings he was able to just come no we know any different yeah we got our father's surname you know what i mean get me so we're in court and we're not this is my uncle going with on the daily and he's in the courtroom for me yeah so we had like a different type of shall we respect for this man love them like definitely like a dad when he when he passed away that broke me bro i was in jail when i heard this bro yeah and you don't understand this is someone i was with let me explain something to you like he used to come on uh he used to come on uh legal visit legal visits or check it out yeah we come on the legal visit by going to the room he'd speak to me or formal see the moment we went into the room bro and locked door he was like yo how much you mentioned that's the way you're saying it's the way you're saying it's my old legal shit bro it's my uncle we're going to sit in the room and talk shit you know i'm saying that's how it works and i tell you what's mad is that my uncle i won't say his name out of respect because i don't think he'd want to say in his name but my uncle Jeff and his other uncle his brother they had they were best friends you know i mean and it broke him probably more than anybody because his best friends who's passed away but it was mad to see this contrast of almost like chalk and cheese because on the one side you got my uncle who was at one point he he was the wickedest person in the whole girl you know i mean like no one can speak to this guy and then the next generation is us but you've got him and then his best friend and brother who is the guy who's made it so my uncle's always encouraging him like you're not even supposed to be here like you're the guy who made it like you're the you know i mean i mean you see them two together it was just like a mad combination because one's telling you like fuck those guys man shit just go on kill him from from of the roof and then the other one literally this issue like that she like scrap the guys from off the fucking roof what's the problem like that's how he's talking to you and the other one's going no no no no that's how it speaks you sometimes you know i mean it go from the queens english to patois and it go from talking to a big long dreadlocks big dude and you even talking to you in the queens english or mixing to patois like because from the girl do you know i mean and he he was probably the only person who although the others encouraged positive stuff for us he was the only person who really was like you don't need to do any of this particularly i know he definitely did that with me because even though i was doing all this stuff i was still quite academic in school i was still very academic in school i was still okay i put all of this but he really yeah i think it's really weird you know he's um i just give it put into context he was um head hunted by some of the top universities because he got the highest in the is it in the country middelands for law yeah so so why did you not follow it through then i was living in the ghetto yes there was nothing there was nothing else like were you scared though to make changes were you scared of people judging you for not trying to get out i don't think so i think what it was i was just too deep in the life like it was like okay i'm all good here on this campus and doing these things but you know as soon as i leave here it's a real life again like the guys down there don't give a fuck that i'm that's what i'm saying they don't care that i'm trying to change my life right now and i think the only reason why i was able to change my life was because i literally wasn't there i wasn't available like by the time i decided to make the transition i'm going to the gyms and kind of stay away from shit because of my kids i was no longer accessible do you know what i mean i was no longer accessible and i was trying to keep i was trying consciously to keep away from shit and that's not to say sometimes i didn't get dragged into shit do you know what i mean this requires my presence now do you know what i mean but i had to make a serious conscious effort whereas at the time when those things are happening where i was going to my academics and my uncle was encouraging me to do go to university and those kind of things i was still very much in the street do you know what i mean so it was difficult for me to say well i'm going to do this and then at the end of the day when four fifteen ends and i go back into handsworth that they don't give a fuck that life is still happening do you know what i mean i mean i mean i remember going college and um you haven't even touched on this this like this this loads and um i remember going college anyway i'm going to get these guys back on yourselves though i'm going to get these well back on you go go get the big man on the back too i'm going to get it so we can go date i think people connect with this it's something different it's something fresh you want to put your story out first and then i'll put this out because i'm going to get a lot of love and respect for this guys because these are three fucking diamonds i believe he's a three good guys through some shit but um people are going to connect with this something i mean it's special and that's the thing we just we're just trying to be real like we just and it was just real life because i remember like going college and then um but you can see the love by the three of you as you can see these are all different characters and use our own right i noticed that but you can see the bond and the connection like look how fucking close she's us and that's not just because you're a big guy looks like i feel as if he wants to i don't have the camera catches but he is a big fucking big fella you know where do you go for life now when you can throw all that fucking trauma and heartache and pain the stuff that you've actually been through to still actually been here yeah these are here for a reason i says that to grill arella you're here for a reason you don't go through the shit you went through yeah and don't survive for nothing so you just clearly got something to give it's how you write that chapter and finish the end of your story to then making positive waves so where do you go i would like so i feel like i feel like um with the amount that's happened bro individually we got so much different perspectives on different things though because you like even someone like him now yeah i ain't been in the army he ain't he has you know i'm saying he has a whole different perspective bro and all next shit that i can't tell you about he's been through some shit that i can't tell you about i've been through some shit he can't you know i'm saying to him as a collective bro bro you know i'm saying like we we've gone through each thing as much as we seen close right now bro we've gone through each thing by ourselves you know i'm saying everything he went through i'm sure it's going to feel to him like he literally went through that by himself bro after i got you see like even um after i got was that stabbed after i got stabbed and he went uh joined the army look a little bit a little bit after that yeah yeah this wasn't too long after that so even between something like me and him now you it's like a scenario like that you gone to the army i feel alone now yeah go we was to give every day about this before bro yeah you know i'm saying you be surprised what these feelings do to you and how to change your behavior like but i could have just said hey i feel lonely where you going i didn't say that shit no we were talking not to say that shit that's that sense our self-harming as well you kind of just accept it to fuck with your own mind well the craziest thing is i'm sure he didn't think of it that way he ain't going to think of it in uh you know he's just doing what he feels is best for his next move i'll tell you something as well i don't i've never been proud of this man as much as i was when he joined the military i tell him this all the time you know for whatever reasons it never worked out with him with him being there and ending up having a long long career with the military but when i saw him say i'm fucking off out of this place i'm going to join the military i was i was with him when he went to the uh recruitment place i was like bro are you doing it was i on a second occasion must have been on the second occasion because i was confused on the first one like he remember he never spoke us about this shit i think it was just a case of it was a bit like that man and you know what i'll be honest man i beat a few cases we're talking like you know a few gun charges when i went there i was i was on a gun charge still man and i was quite straight with him said listen i've you know i'm on this the i remember the guy in the recruitment office looking at me like don't worry about it it's fucking signed up here like that's just a place for you i was just like fucking sweet then yeah i fucking signed the line you know what i mean like so um uh yeah it was one of them it was one of them it was mad though because there's a contrast because that's what i'm saying about like everyone's relationships and how important he is because like as much as he's making his next step and feeling like yo boom this is for me i'm here bro feeling like well i'll be not betrayed but i don't know what next word is like abandoned yeah abandoned right right right right right right bro that's my yo when you see what yo when we were younger they thought we were twins bro don't know how they Man, dat is het. So my point is here, even though for him it might seem like one thing for me was a whole complete different thing. Like whatever experience he had when he went there, bro, I don't know what that was. But you're the younger brother as well and with the abandonment issues, yeah. The thing is though, it's like everything I saw him doing in accomplishing though, I loved it. But then bro, as soon as I stopped thinking about that thing and I go back to my reality look, it's like I'm on my one. I tell you something about it was weird man seeing this, the changes. His back was straight out, his chin was high, his shoes were shinier. When he came back here, he would come on like the weekend leaves and that. But he had his own family going on, we wouldn't see him every weekend. So when we did though, yeah, I remember one occasion, this always sticks with me. You probably remember this. He came and he said to me, yo, who'd you been chilling with? And I was like, no one still. He was like, you don't chill with no one. This is why he's asked me. I said, man, mind you, I'm a very well known person bro. I could make two calls. Every nigga wants to fucking be with him, you know what I mean. He's asked me this bro, and I'm like, I actually don't want to chill with anyone. Truth be told bro, I didn't want to chill with no one after he went to the army. I'm good, I got it by myself then. Like I'm saying, and it's like it does something to you without you realising bro. I became way more withdrawn. You'll find your change though, when you're surrounded by other people, you're getting all their information, all their bullshit, all their energies. When you yourself, that's when you really figure out who the fuck you are. It's not the same as when you're in prison, you're sitting in a cell. Even though you got a lot of time to think, it's still not the same because it's condensed. It's nasty, it's negative, but when you're in the house yourself out in freedom, you fucking look at things differently. And probably you going to the army has probably saved your life. You, the man with that. What you were going to be found with when they threw the gun away and the man stuck him in. We spoke about it earlier. He's saved your life because you've probably been in prison now doing a lifer. And then that ends up affecting you again. So the free's could be potentially fucking dead or all doing lifers. Life, what's the mysterious ways? I can see you as free talking in schools. I can see you as free change in lives. It's funny, you know, because I should do some of that stuff now. Yeah, I do. I don't really speak about my philanthropy. I pronounce that right, philanthropy. And what's that? Basically, my giving back to the community. I want to go give little talks to the schools and trouble some kids and the kids who are on the verge of ending up in that street life or doing some serious crime, or people that have just come out from doing crimes but they've still got a chance to turn their life around. And I do often, I go into certain places, certain centres, certain schools and I try to talk to those guys. It's good for them to have somebody who's got lived experience because I've been there, bro. I try to explain to these kids every single thing we can imagine going through. I've done it. And I'm not just saying that. I mean, I've done it, do you know what I mean? Sometimes you get through to some. Sometimes you don't. You have to learn the hard way. But there's a couple of guys that I can get through to and change their life and change their path. My job is done, man. I'm talking my son over there. The other day I had to give him a call asking if he's okay because in this area, the area that he currently lives in is fucking murder. It's every week. And I had to give him a call saying, you know, son, you okay? Because whenever I hear it's really close to home. So I just call him to see if he's okay. And it turns out that, you know, one of the guys, well, he's friends with all of them. There's one of the guys who went to school with the other guys, he's friends with him. You know, my son was wounded and I'm thinking to myself, man, shit, that could easily be my son just chilling with one of these guys one of the days it ends up ropt in. And even then I have to say to my son, because like I've said to you right now in this interview, it's probably the first time my son's heard any of this shit come from my lips and be very candid in front of him right now. I say to him, son, please, please don't hang around with these guys. I understand that you're friends, but please don't put me in a situation where I feel like I need to involve myself. And I don't know if my son's ever understood what that means. You know what I mean? It probably does now. Do you know what I mean? I have to hear any shit. But it's because I know the lengths I will go to for a personal love. I've done it for him. And I would do it in a heartbeat for my charge, you know what I mean? And we ain't even mentioned none of the occasions that were just quick. Like something happened and the person just got their teeth punched out real quick or something. We ain't even mentioned none of those occasions together. We've only, we just, you know what I'm saying? You hold a lot of emotion, Mike. So I do, I can see you hold your heart in your sleeve. Like I see you feel as if you're always wanting to cry. Like because I think you feel the pain in the past. Yeah, sometimes that does happen, man. It does happen. It does. Some of it, some of it. Do you know what I mean? I live, somebody saw me one time. He got sad eyes, Mike. I was like, it's probably because I've been punched in both of them. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? But yeah, man. There's a lot of regret, man. Like I said, a lot of responsibility. I feel responsible for a lot of shit that's happened. Even with my sister. I feel responsible for a lot of that shit that's gone on with that. That's another story. My sister's story will blow you away. And the show. Absolutely crazy. Bro, she's down the minute. She's wanted. She's wanted though. She's wanted. She's wanted to get her on, mate. Police have come. Police have come. I don't even know what you're talking about. That's not it, bro. You know what I mean? And the thing is, you see where my sister is over, bro. It's mad, yeah. Because she don't understand how much she has that she could give back. She doesn't. She doesn't even understand the potential. None of a bro. Like, she, if she just got to a certain place, she'd have so much. But I feel that with news three also. I feel that with news three. So you're seeing your sister, I see news three. I see goodness. I see kindness. I see loyalty. Strength. But also see pieces there that are also broken. Yeah, man. And we're trying to, like we said, man. We're from an environment where we were never, we were never taught to get those pieces fixed. Do you know what I mean? But as times have changed, man. We've been taught to crack on with it exactly. Times have fucking changed. That's where you're going to heal. It's talking about it. I'll tell you something. One thing about my sister, I've always said. I'm glad she wasn't born a guy, man. She's the worst in all of her mind. She's the same to him. Like she's done more job than all of us. She's worst in the soul, man. If she was ever a man. I'm just so glad she is. Do you know what I mean? She's shirting would be wild. Wild. How hard is that? The like chasmises and bofties when people are messing. And it's been nuts to meet them. I mean the first Christmas that we've had together in about 10 years was last year. Was we all together? We were all together, bro. Was it either Christmas? Where? What? Mum? Yeah. We were all there? Nah, bro. No, it wasn't, bro. You was there, bro? Nah, bro. Didn't I come earlier? I didn't see you. Yeah, but you were there? Nah, nah. You didn't see me there. Leave. This is how serious it is. We were all together. We were all there together. Factual. The last time we were all together was in Zion. In Zion Bar, bro. When I took the picture. I got the picture on my Instagram right now. 2016. 2016 I was gone. You know what I'm talking about, bro? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Your birthday. Was it my birthday? That wasn't my birthday. Oh, that was one of my afterpipes for my fights. Was it afterpipes? Every time I have a fight, it's my afterpipes. Can you go on and get another fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where is the walks out come? I will, man. I was meant to be fighting in July. Yo, you know the song? Dan Toes, yeah. He's got that brand now in all the watches. Darren Toes? Yeah, sorry. Darren Toes is meant to be coming to visit in our gym. I'm like, man. What's his name? What's his name? Yeah, man. Tom Ashburn on I'm as me, am I? Well, I am. And Andy Clamp as well from Down In Parts. But what was I saying then? What was I saying? After my fight. So I was meant to be fighting in July. And that's last time as well. And it just clashed a couple of things that I was doing. And I couldn't, I can't commit the time to training. And if I'm, it would be my first fight since 2019 because of all this COVID shit. So I want to, you know, apply myself and have the proper kind of camp and mind frame for it. You know what I'm saying? So maybe about September. How do you feel after that camp? Do you feel more at peace when you're training hard? I feel like fucking dog shit, mate. You're getting fucked up every day. What are the plans for the three? He's then moving forward for the future. What about you, Zehle Shake? You know, so I've, you know, I've come out of jail to doing a little lengthy sentence. And I was just kind of finding myself, you know what I mean? But then the opportunity arose as I was doing a bit of construction and shit. Then the opportunity arose with my guide. My guide, I actually met through being in jail and he started his own company in his business. And we've just started bumping heads and we're just trying to push that forward. So at the minute what we're doing is we actually deliver high education and careers education to schools and young people and stuff. So that's kind of like the focus at the minute. But really what I'm focusing on at the minute is just giving back and just developing on myself. You know what I mean? Because at the minute, just like you've been hearing, it's like we're kind of on a roll to self-discovery on it. And it's a beautiful thing. Which we never kind of really looked at. I don't think none of us have really delved deep into ourselves and said, yo, who am I, bro? Like what am I supposed to be here for? You know what I mean? Like what's my destiny? What am I supposed to be? And I always feel like you need to give back. You know what I mean? So as much as you want to take and gain, you need to be given back along your journey. You know what I mean? But then again, use of get books in, use of get documentaries, possibly films. The world is yours. It's just how much you want to fucking grasp it and use your pain for success. It's as simple as that. What about yourself, Grilla? I've spoken earlier about where we going. How do you feel about listening to your brothers, first of all? Well, you know, it's mad because especially like, you know, you go to do something like this and you assume you're going to know some stuff the person's going to say already. Then there's going to be some shit you're going to discover as well. You know what I'm saying? So, for me bro, this communication right here, this is fucking, this is like, to me this is coming like therapy bro. This is fucking shit, you know what I'm saying? A little brother likes to talk. I know, I know. I know, I know. I know. I don't know. I feel like, you feel like the way my brother was breaking it down, man. It's always whatever your journey is, bro. You have to be given back along that way. I feel like when you don't give back along the way, shit can fuck up. I feel like stuff goes very smooth bro when you see a lot at the end. When you're doing your journey or giving it the same time, you know what I'm saying? Right now, I feel like whether it's me doing music, whether it's me doing this production company, whether it's some shit with the youths, whatever it is bro, I feel like as long as we push forward bro, I feel like each of us bro only destined for greatness bro. I've got my finger in so many pies right now. I've got a bit more urgency to my shit. I'm reaching the twilight years of my fighting career so I'm not naive enough to think that I'll go on forever. I've achieved quite a lot and I'm still training with real high level guys. I've just got a new management deal, new management company Kings, so they're helping me with the stages of my career. You know, there's some promotions on the table after my contract finishes with cage warriors, maybe better tour, maybe one FC, those kind of places. For me, we're fighting now, it's about big money fights and kind of just the final years of my career getting some dough, you know what I mean. Also, the problem is with peep fighters is they have no exit strategy, so that's why they end up having a few fights too many, getting some brain injuries and shit like that and you're watching great fighters fight while they're over the hill and I've never wanted to be that guy. At the moment, I've got a business with a friend of mine, we're running a security company, RG8 facilities, that's what we're doing at the minute. We've got some clients, kind of nationwide, it's going okay at the minute. We'll leave all the links in the description. I mean, he hasn't even spoke about any of the security stuff, that's a whole different ball game in January because he's like a personal hardman. Bodyguarding, close protection and shit like that, looking after the people in the city. We haven't scratched the surface man, that's what we're good to do. I'm going to get these all on separately again so we can connect, but this is more a join the all three brothers, try to get this on the freeze. I was lucky enough because I've just been known as a hard man of the city, I've been able to get a lot of opportunities within the security sector and close protection and shit, looking after celebrities and stuff, so I've got that aspect of the company that we're dealing with. I've also started to make the transition into acting, so from the fighting the sports personality into actually stage and movies, that's coming on right now. Did you do this bro, look at this bro, he did that shit now, I'm on that shit. For me, I'm a person, I was talking to my brother about this in the car, I get something in my head, I'm like okay, I'm going to do it, I'll just do it. If it fails a few times, I don't give a shit, I'm going to keep trying to do it until we figure out the best way to do it. Look at the guy that she films on that as well, do you know what I mean? You look at fucking snacks, you look at the gentleman, bugs him alone, just fucking doing nothing, you don't need to be an actor. If anyone that's watching this now that they've come to this part of the episode, if you have a dream or an aspiration or something you want to do, get up and fucking do it. Get up and do it. We were talking about this show bro, not allowing other people to dim your shit, when you're talking about it and throw that fucking negativity on it and make you throw your idea out the window. You know where I got this mentality from as well. I have the big up brother named Cypher from Birmingham, real humble brother, pioneer who always sought to do us well, our best intentions at heart. When my brother was in hospital trying to, was the shell of the man after being recovered from those stab wounds, Cypher was bringing him food every day. He didn't break this down to me. It wasn't even though he was just bringing the food, this keeps bringing crates of stuff over there. My mum was amazed by when she was seeing him doing all this behind you. This guy is much older than me, because he's much older than me. He's an elder for me. Proper, you know when you say elder bro, he really is. This guy ain't one of those ones where he just demands the title. Like bro, he plays his position. This guy is that elder. The first time I even recorded a music room bro was him saying he had a big studio at the time. People all different types of artists bro will go there from around the world bro and go to the studio and enjoy the choir. This guy gave me the keys bro, showed me on the computer. This is how you do this. I got a lot of love for Cypher. Where from, you hear the term, I'll bust my gun for that person. I'd kill for that person. I'd go to jail for that person. I'd do anything for that person. We've literally been there. Cypher was a very humble man. He's one of the pioneers from the music industry. He was part of a group called Moorish Delta 7. I say all that to say this. I remember one day, if you see Cypher where he was to where he is now. You can see he's a just get up and do it kind of guy. I remember something very simple that happened to me. At the time I didn't drive, we're talking the early 2000s, maybe 2005, 2006. I wasn't driving at the time and he was saying, do you drive? I can't remember why he even asked me. I was like, not yet man, I have to learn how to drive. He was like, just get in a car and drive. I was like, what the fuck does this guy mean? I can't just get in a car. You want to kill somebody? You want to get arrested? What would you want me to do? What I realized was, it was symbolic. It was a metaphor, what he was saying. He was saying, bro, if you want to do something, you don't talk about this shit and think about it. Just go and do it. And that's what he meant. And that stuck with me in my head to this very day. Every day I think to myself, just get in a car and drive. And so anytime I have an idea or endeavor that I want to do, I just get up and do it. And that's how I live. And if anybody else hears this, I hope that they can just think the same way. Do you know what I mean? Do you did it? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Right now, you've thought you saw it. I want to do this shit and look now. Do you know what I mean? For anybody watching that's in the battle, maybe it's in prison, maybe it's going through, especially Burma, and all the shit that's happening on the streets, what are the bad men, what advice would you give for them? Talk to the people that have been through already. I can guarantee you it's not all glitz and glimmer. I guarantee you that it's not all glitz and gamma. And those people will have some advice to tell you that will definitely change your mind about a lot of things. I was going to say, I've told a lot of the young guys that I deal with now and even some of the active young guys even when I was in jail and I'm talking to guys and it's kind of funny because as much as I see some of these oldies, I used to look up to them anyway at least, and I realised no one's given any of these guys any good information, man. They're just feeding them with piss, poor bullshit and false hopes and false pretenses and everything that encompasses and anything that's to do with it is fake, bro. The truth is this, you're going to be fighting for a postcode, fighting for whoever or saying that these guys are your ups, your enemies, literally killing each other, bro. They're acquiring wealth to buy weapons, bro. Kill dudes that Snowfall would have owned their mum so happened to get given a council house that she probably barely can pay rent for in the area and now you're saying you want to kill that you because he's from that area, bro. And your mum don't even own her house so you're saying that, yo, I want to kill somebody because I'm repping the ends that you don't even own shit in, bro. You don't own the house, bro. You rent in, barely, you throw me. So I say, I say, stop listening to this fakeness that's out there, bro. Don't look at Instagram, see all that shit is fake, man. Keep it real to yourself. Be honest with yourself, see being real and this is what a lot of people get mixed up. They think being real is by being on the road or being violent or selling drugs or whatever it is, bro. It's just about being real to yourself. So when that guy comes up to you and says, yo, yo, roll with me, let's just go out of town and start selling some, you know, some faken coke or whatever, make loads of dope or whatever. Bro, you was going to college, be real to yourself, say actually, no, I want to go college, bro, and do that. Say actually, nah, I don't want to go and stab that geezer because he comes from some different area. Be real to yourself and say, you know what, actually, I'm not about that, like, you feel me. Like just be real and be honest with yourself. You know what I mean? How about you again? Well, it's a bit of the same thing, you know. It's a bit of the same thing, man. I feel like it's important understanding who you are and staying just true to that, man. Like, because too many times, you know, like he said, you have your plan, but you deterred from it because of what you saw this person doing or this one, you know what I'm saying. We get it because we grew up in the same shit, but that's why we can say this because we know, had we just stuck to our plan where we would all be right now, you know what I'm saying. Had you already pointed it out, bro? We would have been to these spots ages ago, but instead we went about this completely different, you know what I'm saying, and we've had to go through a whole bunch of just heartache, deaths, this, that, bro. You name it, bro, jail, whatever the fuck, bro. It ain't even just he went through it, bro, we've all been through it. You know what I'm saying, so it's like, you definitely don't need to go about it that way. You can definitely have it easier, you know what I'm saying. And if we had to go through this shit so that we can then be in this position to just break it down like this, then obviously it's what it is, you know what I'm saying. Lads, thank you. Absolute pleasure, good luck with the fights. Grill that again, big man. Absolute listen lads, I'm going to get you on again though. Separately part two again, and we'll shoot this shit, we'll go on deeper, I think people will get a lot from this conversation. It's powerful, it's deep. I think use free need to work on a lot of stuff and open up with your father, your mum, whatever. If I'm not going to see me now, then you're right, you know it. And put all this shit on the table because I think that's what you'll thrive even more. Just putting a lot of that resentment, you're just all that shit with your brother, people leaving you and having it already and trying to store it away, it eventually consumes you, eventually eats you away, so just you know what, this is what we do, we sit down, there might be a lot of fights, arguments, people might not like a lot of shit, guarantees will feel fucking feel amazing after it man. But lads, absolute phenomenal man. Thank you very much man, take care. 100% cheers.