 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions the weekly vodcast will recover all things with the future upcoming the third person mobas that are out There that includes all the para zombies and ethereal This week we're going to talk about all the updates for over prime ethereal fault and pred then we'll get into the popularity Pole and then our topic for discussion is the pros and cons of elo and Possible replacements for that system if we can think of some if you guys can think of some while we're talking right here go ahead I'm your host the man goose. I do extend the opportunity to anyone who wants to come host to come guest host Just hit me up. You don't have to be a streamer You don't even have to have a webcam just hit me up and we will pull you in as long as you have discord That's kind of the one thing you gots to have the discord But my co-host as always is the one and only jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I'm fantastic man goose happy to be here man and with us We've got blood hunter joining us this week blood go ahead and give us a brief overview of like how you got involved with paragon And these projects as a whole All right. Well, hello man goose and jelly but uh, I started in paragon on ps4 I saw their trailer One time on e3 when I used to watch the when they used to have an e3 expo And I was like this game looks interesting. I was kind of used to call of duty and crap like that but uh This game it just it I don't know. It just did something to me It made me like I have to play this game and then I immediately I think they announced it that day that they were going to do uh Paid access after they showed that and I was just I'm all I'm getting it But I had no clue how to play a moba. No clue how to do anything so it's been a rough kind of uh All through paragon it was always like go stand over there in that lane No one would really give me any examples So like go over there. I was like, well, I like this little anime girl shimby when she came out I was like, I'm gonna play her in the off lane fine. I don't care what y'all say She was good Yeah, but after a while I actually got a Paragon died when they first announced paragon died because I used to watch another notch as soon as it died I was just like, okay. I'm not gonna play it. I guess I'm gonna find something else to do I tried smite. I didn't like it. I didn't I didn't I really don't like top down games So I never tried league or anything but I did when uh I did hear about a paragon demo that came out. I tried to get into which I guess it was one person I forgot uh, who's that? That was rocket mania. I think he was met. Yeah And then he turned that into like something else. I didn't do and then it was overthrow And then when over prime when they released over prime demo for people to download That's when I was like, I'm downloading this. I don't care if it messes with my pc I'm gonna download it, but I had fun on that. I started getting pretty good at rampage on there I finally that gave me the confidence to get the how to play a moba And then recently I've been playing fault for like a year Just to get really good at movers again, but I'm still not that good even after all these years You are good with rampage. I'll give you that man. I'll play it I've played with you and over prime and you uh, your confidence level goes from like here to like right here Whenever you're playing playing the whole page I even tried him as a support a few times in over prime He's a good support man. You just picked that rock up and mean mug people and they just back off Yeah, that video I sent you that one time of uh Me and mid lane with rampage and that just that poor bellica just I think it was bellica I just kept hitting her with rock and then was back when uh The rocks would fly through the towers and I ended up nailing her at the end with it Let's get into the news and updates. I'm going to start this week with over prime because they've got a lot of stuff going on They released a training mode video. This is not a an ai versus ai sort of thing This is a straight up training mode where you can go in fight off minions They had like a target dummy that you could ping into and then they had various jungle camps some of which we haven't seen before and um Really cool stuff to see that they're redesigned even redesigning even the jungle camps Uh blood. What did you think of the training video? I I want it now For a person for a person like me that still Has issues because I got other mental issues people will know about if they watch my stream I don't want to get into it here, but uh, I want a training view. I've always I have been playing fault because I couldn't play over prime anymore. So I was like I need to play a third person moba but I've been playing And it's just fault. I was like I need some kind of training I need somewhere because on over prime you could just start a a match with just minions Learn the heroes learn this you don't have anybody to play against but at least you can learn the hero Not have to worry about people, you know being toxic saying why you're bad or stuff like that But the training mode of over prime I first saw that I loved it. I was like I want this Give it to me now What do you think jelly I think it's incredible I think something I've always liked that smite has Even if I don't play the game very much is their training practice mode that you can go in It's a separate map where you can kind of have access to everything and really Test out and flesh out the builds or learn about the character or whatever you want to do And over prime I think took that kind of to the next level and kind of expanded on that idea And I think it's fantastic and it's going to help a lot of players Pick up the game a little easier without feeling so Overwhelmed by all the different concepts Yeah, it's a it's a godsend for content creators, too If you can display how your build will work in game And not have to like deal with all the other crap just to show the straight up This is how much you will crit at this time And Yeah, it's it's it's an amazing thing that they've done I barely got never had it. I wish I wish they would have The other thing with the training video though is The the one sort of insect camp we've seen before we've seen images of that before But then they had some kind of like two-legged Iguana tailed monster thing that comes running up That twin blast just wastes and then at the very end of the video Yeah, you got that big dragon thing in the background that you barely get a glimpse of I thought it looked like Or something Is that what they're saying is a pterodactyl? I thought it looked like the monster in that movie the ritual Yes, actually it's a great reference for that I'm gonna go side by side and put it up there I think it's one of those things of paragon jungle camps were always really generic Yeah, they were the white modeled minion with maybe some moss and a different weapon and that was it and that was Super basic and most games have Extremely extreme variations of the jungle camps where they're completely different models completely different That way you can distinctly say what camp you're at and all these things And so it makes sense that they're redoing a lot of these But and they look incredible too. So I mean shout out to their team that's putting those together because they're amazing Oh, yeah Yeah, that's a very good point. I never even thought about that. But yeah paragon was just the minions It was just more minions for the jungle camps where everybody else has like manticores and And it's hard to steer. I don't know From from like a competitive standpoint. It's hard to be in the jungle and be like, oh, I'm at the minion camp There's no great. Which one uh the the minion camp. I don't know which one I'm at right Whereas you can give each camp a different name and now you can communicate to your team Exactly where on you are on the map without them having to reference the mini map or anything like that. You can say I'm at The lizard camp and then they immediately go. Oh, okay. I know exactly where that is and can go from there I wonder why you said lizard camp What I don't know man crazy It's like some other game that we cover might have lizard camps. I mean maybe maybe maybe just a little I only speak in ethereal references They also released another uh skin concept this time it was for severog not a Huge major change to his skin, but a cool one nonetheless as always they're just their concept team Just knocks it out of the park every time and then they actually realize those concepts like we've seen concepts from other games where it just never comes into fruition they They seem to be pretty quick about coming up with these concepts and then actually modeling the 3d models for them We talked about it before that if They're really trying to expand their team to like a hundred people Once you get past the core game Gameplay working as you want it to A lot of those people can be the artists and then the modelers for these skins That you can just turn these things out non-stop essentially because you have 50 60 people working on them at all times Most skins mo money. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. What do you think about that severog skin blood? uh If it's not red or black usually i i don't really care Did it have any black? I can't remember. I don't have it the picture. I think it was like gold White and stuff. Okay. It's not not your style little too angelic for you with your demonic eyes over there I'm kind of into you know, just like the name, you know, I have a theme Like the yellow-eyed demon from supernatural over there Well, it's just a reference for you, isn't it? It is it is. I like it Is that better for you? No, put it back on. I loved it There we go. I mean Severog players though are diehards Like they're they're the kind of people that if they a new skin comes out They'd be like it's a severog skin gotta buy it like that's all it is It was one of the few groups in paragon that no matter what the skin was they were gonna purchase it Like it was just one of those things Yeah, he didn't get much skin love in paragon though. That's for sure So much potential for skins too. Yeah Yeah, I got I got one thing about severog Severog and Richter It doesn't matter how many times I've tried them or even muriel those three. I just I can't get the concept of how to play them. I constantly die a lot. I feel like I'm completely useless I can't play muriel for shit Then the last thing Uh, the last thing for over prime was they released a um gameplay of rampage now They're having a problem with their shorts Like when they did the training video, there was a but there was a bunch of people saying like the numbers are too big Is there a way to shrink the numbers a way to shrink the numbers? You got to realize when you do a short you you record something 1920 by 1080 you've got to zoom it in When you go 1080 by 1920, right? So it's it's like a very zoomed in view. Those numbers don't look that big when you're actually playing the game But in response to that, I think they posted like this tiny little box Of rampage where you can even like full screening you could barely see what's going on with it It's cool that they released it. I like seeing some rampage gameplay I'm very excited to see rampage coming back into uh the paragon world, but man, they need to they need to tighten it up Yeah, absolutely. That's each one of their shorts that they put out are in like such variations of quality and for like Performance it's like I don't know who I do you have five different people making shorts at all times What is happening here that we're getting this weird? They're just tossing richter hooks out there to see what they catch Till they find something Yeah, the thing about those uh shorts I had never cared about tiktok. I've never cared about shorts and then over primes like released that mo cap thing of on tiktok. I was like I never even heard that song before now. I just love that song But I was just I keep watching that. I was like I like this video Then I started making it was like, hmm My god, I got kids into this. I'm gonna let me try and I'm like, damn this is actually easy to make a video You know, then I made like I've made what four Overprime videos on their tagging them and then I just upload them to youtube shorts It's quick and easy to do you just got to find the right format for it Like I wish that that like especially that rampage video. I wish they would have not done a youtube short They would have just posted a one minute video so that people could see what was going on with it I wish they'd make like those gifts they have in their servers The server with the gallery the little gifts they have it's supposed to be like they're all small Supposed to be for like your background or profile or something I wanted them to make one that had rampage in it I took all those things because I thought that was what you were supposed to use when that that first event And I just made them to a video and added music over it But I was like I wanted a rampage one All right, uh, that's about all I have for overprime. You guys got anything else you want to say? No, it's we're in december officially. So maybe we'll get something from them this month like it's Soon Yeah, there's a win And uh, so that's going to bring us to ethereal now ethereal had their community corner Which jelly knows all about because he hosted the community corner with a skipper Now in the community corner as we all know their their last stress test only went for a couple hours before it broke And had to be shut down, but they announced that they're having another stress test on the 18th What I really liked about the community corner. However was they uh skifter and you jelly you and skifter really broke it down exactly what happened With the stress test to break it what you guys did to try and fix it and why that fix didn't work It just gives me a A warning fuzzy that you guys were able to identify and correct the problem That just happened even if I didn't understand the explanation Just the fact that you could say that to the community and explain what was going on and how you're going to fix it Gives me a lot more confidence in this next stress test Yeah, I mean and us too, right like if it'd be much worse if we went into it and found out like Oh, we have no idea what went wrong, right? Like that's a way bigger issue But being able to identify that and share it with you guys as well I think just helps everybody like recover a little bit from that first stress test That way we can head into the second one with a little bit more confidence and and worry free Blood did you watch the um the stream the community corner? Oh, I didn't watch it live. I was I think I was working or something, but I've seen I keep watching them all But I do forget to watch the things on jelly's channel You know, I'm sorry I try to watch when that one time where y'all were only showing them on mongoose channel like the Enter the ether. Yeah And then all of a sudden Wait, oh, yeah, I forgot they started doing it again where they go to his channel too Another thing they talked about during the stress test was the hero release order after grognark So it's going to be x shield and assassin Did I say that right jelly? No, but it's okay. X shield X. No x seal. Yeah exile No, it's fine. It's fine. Is it well that that is definitely how you pronounce it? So it's going to be a picture. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, abman mc6 pack over there Uh zero malware or Echoron I'm so proud of you Seafoam Jesus as you and I call him. Yeah Because he yeah looks like Jesus with a seafoam armor. Um So it's not particularly in that order. It's just whichever one's going to be completed But uh, it'll definitely grognark next on the roster, but then it'll be one of those four so you can go root for those if and you want to Who is malware again? Is he is he adc? Yes malware is a marksman. Yep Now I saw the What you need to do is make a skin for me That has like red lightning over him instead of the purple Then I'll play him all the time I'm sure he'll have a color variation of sorts Oh, dude the malware is skin. We already got I don't think I've seen a malware skin You haven't no But his skins are incredible. We've got a couple planned already in the pipeline and they're amazing. So right on Yeah, I guess I should explain that so xl is an assassin Um zero is a sky slayer. He looks sort of angelic and he has a spear and a gun Fucking nine mil and a spear Then malware is the ranger as we just discussed. He's got a bow and arrow, but he's like cybernetic and shit and then acoron is a uh night class So he's supposed to be sort of either tanky or a brusary He's the same class as talos I like how talos has a giant freaking axe and acoron has a giant freaking sword. That's gonna be the Giant now all nights from now and have to have a giant something what yara was supposed to be a no No, yara was gonna be a berserker. That's right. Yep um No, but each of them they're The first seven of course were safely designed in that we wanted people to be able to play them pick them up easily Go from there Basically starting with this next set of myths as we've already kind of seen with grog nark They're gonna start getting wilder and wilder and ideas and like really bring new aspects to the game overall And new aspects to the 3d moba genre as a whole Yeah, grog nark having sort of travel mode, but It's not exactly travel mode because he's Slower whenever he's moving regularly and then he rolls into a ball and rolls around the map whenever he needs to go quicker Is that the one that I saw a while back at rolls? Yeah, he'll be able to roll. Yeah, also the one I just saw on the recent one when they have a gun and a Sword I guess I was like that's like okay, yeah And uh, I think that's going to close it out for a theory unless you guys had anything else you wanted to add I think that's everything I have one less on the 18th That I'm looking for the next stress test, but I'm just so glad that I got into the I was there at the first hour I was like Now I would have probably been in the first match if I had known that you're supposed to pick your role Yeah, yeah but I I think I pissed off you because of all I wanted to do was get in there and try out to flying here I've tried leah I was just flying around. I was like, I don't know where the hell I was supposed to go What role I was supposed to play I just wanted to fly I was like and we ended up winning that one anyways. I was like I mean, there should be no shame in that if you just want to go in check out the map and fly around for your first couple matches I mean, don't Don't worry about what everybody if everybody else is trying to sweat hard and win. Don't worry about skifter I actually thought flying was going to be like a a skill on like a cooldown I was like you mean you can just jump and press shift and fly anytime you want Basically, okay Yeah, pretty pretty great stuff. Uh, if you guys are interested in learning more about ethereal jelly And I do host entered the ether which either goes on my channel or his channel on tuesdays So you can check that out and it is also a podcast. I'll have those the links for the podcast download That's kind of what we would prefer that you do is let's do the podcast But you know, whatever how you want to however you want to consume the content. Yeah Let's move on now to fault Fault they had a vote for they had six items and they had a vote for which one The community wanted to explain to them sort of revealed to them and The thorn shield one, but they also released the sort of souls the the thorn shield being a um It just thorns. It's basically it's in pretty much every mobile It's just damage reflect whenever you take physical damage or is it uh, whenever you receive a basic attack You're you you reflect 12 of your physical armor as energy damage. So a lot of weird sorts of damages and armors and values going on there But it's basically it works as a damage reflect just like every other moba fault Definitely needed this. I've been missing this from my life The crazy thing about this item though is it also has the secondary effect of reducing any crits you take by 20% All right. Yeah, and honestly with both of those effects I do not see a reason that if you're a tank you're not taking this item every single game Because you've got the damage reflect and marksman's are such a huge Thing in fault right if one gets steam rolling It's really hard to stop them and almost all of them build crit consistently So between the two effects you're mitigating damage and reflecting 12% It's huge that item is going to be absolutely game changing for tanks Yeah, uh, what do you think blood? I was sitting here trying to find the item so I could look at them again But uh, I know I saw one that was uh That I was like I want to use this on jungler Yeah, probably the thorn shield. Yeah Because I was like this sounds interesting, but Every time I see the skills it's like I don't get the concept I still don't get the concept of them fault. It's like I I think I'm doing it right or building right and it's like why do I feel so like I'm like Die super easy It's like I've never like I I used to be go to gravestone. I was like and now I'm like I can't Every time I try to play him on off lancer I die immediately, but other people play him. It's like you can never kill him A great lot of I think this Item in particular is gonna be great for gravestone and he's in a bad spot right now. He really is like Like He gets dominated by pretty much anybody else in the off lane if they know how to play anywhere Half decent. Mm-hmm. Yeah gravestone is your safe pick and even then he's not very safe Whereas this will really set him apart and give him some opportunity to survive in that lane It just makes him even more of an adc hunter And you already don't want to kill him off as it is now you're gonna be even more wary of shooting at him So yeah, I think it'll be a really good item for gravestone in particular He's he's I've seen him played in the jungle a lot and he's actually quite good in the jungle I did try that one gravestone in the jungle. Yeah I don't know. I think I'm just missing a small little detail of how to play these characters this way Because I know that like de trigger. I hate playing against de trigger because every time He'll have like three. He'll have three phantom blades before I even have one card. I'm like How and it's like only a bit of 15 minutes. I'm like, what are you doing? That's because de trigger is constantly in the in your jungle not his own jungle You know, that's the that's the shit thing about fault is I know everybody's name that plays like Because the player base is so small right now. Like you said de trigger. I should have no idea who de trigger is I'm like, oh that kalari player that always invades the enemy team's jungle The good thing I have three different names I only play on one name people are okay. People know me on two names now The other item that they revealed was the sort of souls 55 physical power 15 physical pins stacking item that maxes out at 75 stacks each stacks gives a 0.6 power Full stacks gives you 10 physical power And the way you get the stacks is by killing minions you get one stack I kill heroes you get five stacks some some crap like that. This seems strong Absolutely Usually with these stacking items you either see them stack over time Or if they're going to stack on kills and minions you see them fall off when you die in some capacity but just having an item that just is Almost inherently better than every other item once it's fully stacked Is dangerous because that means that anyone that wants damage They're just like, okay, I build this I wait until I crew my stacks and then I just hit a power level that nobody could match Yeah, it's I could see the people building this pretty early too. I can see people going like grave diggers crossbow Boots and then into this and then every item they pick up after that that has any kind of physical power is just an extra boost Yeah, no, it's it's kind of the uh What is the fault item that scales with You get extra of magic power or ability damage. I can't think of what the name is now. Oh, yeah, I can't even um, but it's basically that for attack damage instead of For physical power instead of the ability power, right? And so it's It's a dangerous item to put in with a marksman meta that's already demolishing games half the time Yeah, it's not it is not Oh, and then um, finally they had a not finally and this is the that's the last They had a demo of how to access the AI mode which kind of gave us a better Idea of what their AI mode was going to be and also gave us a pretty good look at their at their map It's not just a facelift on the map It does look like they actually redesigned some of the elements of the jungle, especially and um, yeah, it looked really good It looks really well thought out. Um, you're going to have to play AI matches until you're level five. You can't just jump in You see people do that all the time in fault. They jump in with zero idea how to buy items They just go Booking it down mid lane run under a tower and die and you're like, oh crap. I got this guy And then, you know, you try and guide them and teach them But sometimes they don't even respond but forcing them to actually play AI games And i'm sure there'll be some sort of tutorial associated with that. I'm hoping so um Yeah, I think that's just gonna be great for fault overall That was actually the first thing I was going to say man goose is hopefully now that we have AI matches a tutorial can come because Those go hand in hand. Yeah, so theoretically we should be receiving a tutorial at the same time more than just those videos They force you to watch when you first load in. Yeah Um, but we'll have to wait and see what patch 14 brings I forgot they had those videos to tell you the truth I didn't because I remember the when they first implemented them having to sit through and watch them And I was like, please just letting me skip. I've played 50 games already. Please god Blood what do you think? I don't know somebody. It's still kind of new can't figure things out I I'm gonna play uh AI mode until I feel confident. Mm-hmm. And then I'm going to go a pvp and just Start crying and then come back to AI mode It'll at least give you an idea of how much mana your abilities are going to cost and Like how much how much of the tower damage you can take so you know when to dive and when not to dive and that sort of thing I don't know if it's just fault or if it's other ones. It might have been other I always have this weird thing where I think people can see things sooner than I can see them. I thought it was my delay setting Always feel like I have to have superhuman reaction speed or something. Oh, that's because we're old as fuck Oh, yeah, okay. I keep thinking I get the same thing. That's why I can't play brs People see me and I'm like, where the fuck was that guy's cause we're old as fuck. That's why Oh, and this is actually the first year. I've learned I used to always be a console and controller player You know and then uh That's the one good thing about fault. I guess it helped me uh learn to play mouse and keyboard Then I went and bought a $100 mouse and all this and just it still doesn't make me that much better Yeah, I think that's about all I had to say about the AI mode unless you guys had anything No No, I think it's a great step for them for sure. Oh god. Yeah. Oh god. Yeah Now we'll come with patch 14, which is supposed to be the 10th of December A lot of there'll be a lot of stuff going down to december boys. Uh-huh. Absolutely strap in and get ready And then the last thing that we had for fault they're they're having a contest Take a picture of your setup like what what you play fault on with fault up on your screen And post it on twitter reminds me a lot of how overprime is kind of doing their marketing I think if if they did pick up this up from overprime No harm no foul good on them for for for picking up a good idea because it's a great idea My only sort of problem with this is I brought this up to uh to bearded and windew It kind of seems hopefully they're the reward creativity in some way Otherwise, it's just a a contest of who has the most expendable income to drop Fucking monitors and set up. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. I mean like I'm a gear nut, right? And so I have a lot of gear on my desk For various things the stream deck all my lights my camera the whole nine yards How does that not just give me an edge over somebody else? Yeah, like that it just it's kind of a strange way to do it Yeah, I had just redone my setup. I had just moved to a different room because the other room was too small And now this room's a beggar. I redid my monitors. I have one that's a portrait mode now I got them all next to here. I got I've got all kinds of stuff here. I don't have it all fancy looking because I built my own desk so But I'm still I keep forgetting to do that. I'm gonna actually make a video for that probably Yeah, I've got Two monitors sitting on a fucking plastic table. I bought a Walmart right now Brilliant. Yeah Perfect. Submit it man. You I guarantee you'll win. I'll go in there necessarily say though that the Best-looking one is going to win. They never said what the What the criteria for winning was so maybe it'll just be random. Maybe just pick them in random. I don't know In that case then definitely submit man goose We got to get your walmart table up there. Yeah It was burn marks and shit And that's all I had for fault unless you guys had anything else. Nope All right, let's move on to prep assessor. Oh, whoa I was gonna say one less. I don't know if I had said it. They felt talked to me. I just like uh I was one of the big haters for fault and I was just I was always trashing on it all the time. I was like calling the cast grab all that stuff before But I've actually it's gotten better on 13 It got better on 13. It made me come back to play it even though it took a break for So I'm hoping 14 is going to be really good because I want phase. I don't care who the hell has phase And now two people are going to bring out phase and it's like cool, but I think that Uh They seemed to have gotten better when they actually realized a lot of the community is like, uh, you need to fix your shit After that thing with bearded and we were just talking y'all were talking about it for so long I was like and then it's like the day after it's like, hey, here's an update I was like good Keep up with the good work. Get this thing going. We need lots of competition I try to preach that all the time too like fault is way different than what you probably are hearing like people Shit on fault constantly, but they're talking about fault when it first released They're not talking about fault in its current state and it's Way better than it used to be Uh, well, let's move on to predecessor where I have absolutely nothing once again for predecessor I it's hard for me to get mad at him though because of the quality of the content that they have released I mean that that last stress test didn't go so great for him But predecessor has just felt absolutely amazing has looked great and just It has won the hearts of the community, but uh They don't put shit out anymore They're they went from transparent to opaque. I don't I don't like it. I don't like it And that's I mean we're approaching six months Uh since we've really heard anything meaningful. Yes. Oh, come on jelly. Uh, yeah, great and grucks. Yeah like It's one of the things of like it's been six months since your last failed stress test and we haven't heard anything like it just Feels off like it feels like there's something more going on and we've said that before too, but it's just it's just a feeling I don't know What you got blood Maybe they're waiting for patch 14 and it'll be a big announcement that they joined together Yeah Oh, wouldn't that be the knots though if uh, they waited till everybody else was releasing and was like, oh, yeah We asked us to we're here too Really it's gonna be a nut a crazy December all four games having come bigger choose everyone Seriously, seriously All right, that's gonna close it out for predecessor. I guess hopefully we'll get something out of them fairly soon I'll move on to the popularity poll uh 530 votes when I actually calculated everything. There's probably more now, but uh We have predecessor at 52 fault at 13 percent ethereal at 14 and over prime at 21 Clear evidence that this is conducted on my channel. I just did a big pretty big fluff piece for Overprime so of course the overprime numbers went up quite a bit But also over primes just been banging out updates left and right So people are starting to realize that the game is going to come out fairly soon So I think that has also contributed a little bit to the over prime hype Yeah, absolutely. It's seeing the huge increase in over prime I 100% guarantee is tied to your video you made on them last week Uh, but I think all the numbers make sense honestly, we're seeing more come out of over prime So it makes sense that people are gearing up and and getting more excited about them Fault everyone's waiting for patch 14 Fred everyone's waiting for so it makes sense that their numbers are going down ethereal it made sense. I mean like it Given the other things that are going on in the space that can't it can't always funnel into ethereal As much as I would love it to right but it's it's just one of those things So I don't I think it makes sense all the numbers and just be interesting to see in the future where these go But anything to add about the popularity poll Um I posted it everywhere to get people to come vote Okay, so it was also bloods doing That over prime got this name Just like just like most of your videos about over prime I'll go into their discord and post your video for you in case you didn't do it I usually don't I usually don't um I don't know man. It's weird how the numbers sort of fluctuate. It seems like Fred's numbers kind of have been gradually declining But it's mainly been shifts between the other three Fred stays fairly steady With their with with their numbers, but they are etching closer to actually dipping below 50% Um, if they don't put out any updates soon with all these other games coming out I'm sure that that will drop. Um I really think I really think that um the over prime They're gonna They're going to pull Their player base from outside the paragon refugees But I think most of the at least north american Pararefugees are going to end up going For pred or fault and most likely at this point they would probably go for pred But I think over prime will still succeed because they have a greater opportunity to pull in Different players because they are very different from paragon and They don't look quite like the same game. Like if you were looking steam and see pred fault and over prime Over prime looks different pred and fault look about the same. Yep 100% I think it could be good for The paragon successors as a whole Because now you don't have The monolith and legacy lovers playing the same game You can have them be separated and still have their own ecosystems to survive in Right and then kind of the weird thing too is Like a lot of people are kind of attracted to over prime because it has that legacy look to it But it has a very like super monolith feel So like it depends. Did you like the looks of legacy or did you like the play style of legacy? I like the over prime. I mean the I mean the The prime boss not over Or prime, you know what i'm talking about Or prime where they made it to where And that one video we saw where it's more way more open To where you really have to risk it to take that thing because you can get attacked from every single angle Yeah, it makes it more interesting. That's the exact um Prime boss pit that uh pair uh, yeah paragon legacy paragon had really Right down to the shadow wills overlooking it. Yeah Seems like they could combine like legacy map and monolith map and just kind of Made something out of both. Yeah That's pretty interesting that they They started with a legacy base and updated to the monolith aspects of it A predecessor started with a monolith base and that updated the legacy aspects of it like They're complete opposites in that regard Then false like we got pine trees Did you ever play the 3v3 Yes That was actually interesting. Yeah, it was it was like Back in january or something they or december than they made that That was cool. It was a three specific map for it. Mm-hmm It wasn't like they just took a lane out of their game. They created that from the ground up Yeah, the only thing they didn't have Was they didn't have random picks They had it to where you couldn't back Until you died But they didn't have random picks. So everybody would just pick the same hero all the time and howitzer. Yeah Yeah, it was just irritating Yeah, they still didn't have shimby's Sound effects fixed by then Good god I love me some shimby and they did really well with her kit Like she played exactly like she used to but you would throw a wolf and it'd go Like what was that? You do circle rhythm and she'd be like I was like Jesus christ I love it Perfect sound effects. Let me let me get sound grabs of all those putting them in the game guaranteed. Oh, by the way I didn't even know this was a thing um, I was talking in the over prime discord today. They were talking about how there used to be a bug where um, some of the characters voices would change like he was saying that uh He was playing narmash, but narmash had sparrows voice lines What would it not be awesome to have the fey with uh rampages voice lines? Like every time you throw harvest those like There we go. I love it. Perfect Put it in. I want that's what I wanted the game monetize that give me rampage voice lines on the fey Her actual voice lines sound evil, which her lure she wasn't kind of evil like You think out of her and more cash that morty would be the evil one. No, it was the fey Uh So let's uh, let's move on from the popularity poll get into the discussion topic We're talking about the pros and cons of elo. We've talked about this before and it's kind of easy to shit on elo As being a problem because it has been a problem for fault in the past But there's good things that come with it too. Like it actually has In parts of a bit of player retention. It gives you something to work forward to and You know, all these games are going to need something like that. Like fault's going to have their mastery system That's going to be I think a better thing to keep people involved in the game than just trying to climb elo, but um I mean, I will say that during one of the predecessor stress tests or Alpha tests like I took an hour to play fault because I was very close to having enough matter to get a decker skin or some Shit And like I just wanted that decker skin and so I played fault for about an hour Well, I could have been playing predecessor even though I kind of prefer a predecessor, but There was nothing to play towards In pred. So I think elo gives you something to play towards. I just don't think it's healthy Overall for a growing game I don't know. What do you guys think? I think adding it early is most often going to be detrimental Specifically adding it in a public viewable sense. Oh god, yeah Right because elo is really good in terms of a matchmaking system Because if mangus and I are both at 500 elo, but blood is at 10,000 It shouldn't be matching up the 500 elo players with the 10,000 elo player in in the majority of of cases Right. So having that system there so you can have those matchmaking differences huge Having it available for players to go out and be like I got 21 elo that game I lost 35 elo that game is just going to breed toxicity like nothing else Like it's a ranked system without having ranked God it has And it's it's bad. It's a it's a huge problem in that regard I think you're right on the money man goose of saying that it's a good player retention model But having it as your only player retention model is a problem What do you think blood Uh, I've I tried to voice this before but I got shut down I think one time in the sort But uh, I knew to it. So I'm like I figured hey, it's an early access. It's not really a ranked mode. So why not just Why not have it on their site to where oh, you win a match. You just gain this amount you lose a match You lose this amount and it's the same amount. So because people like me go in there and play it and I get I only get toxic when I'm like I'm trying to do good in a match and then We lose that match because of some afk player or You know somebody trying to cheat something do whatever Something happens where that player is not doing anything or they give up early because They're like, oh, well, I don't know what you're doing. So I'm just gonna afk now And then you look and you lost like 50 points. You're like What we could have won that game, but this guy yeah, it makes no end then I'm like, oh cool. I won and I can actually do it So I've actually won 10 in a row And then I lose two matches and I'm back down to the exact same elo. I was at You know 12 matches ago It just it always frustrated me. It always made me kind of not want to keep playing especially at the time of night I play There's not that many people on it's mostly really good players And It's I don't know. It's just that kind of thing that kind of irritates me words they since there's never never Well, sometimes it's a used to be above 200, but come on. Just don't use a traditional elo system with so few players Don't make people want to quit or just don't make it publicly available or something like That like I've talked about this several times on my channel, but Like when fault was in testing they they had elo like public public elo among testers So testers were competing against each other for elo instead of testing the game Which is one of the reasons fault came out with so many bugs It's because everybody's trying to be as competitive as possible. Nobody's just Dicking around in the jungle see if they can get stuck on a rock. You know what I mean? So then when the game came out People get stuck on rocks, you know get stuck on fog walls get stuck on this and that so The the elo at that point Definitely a hundred percent uncalled for Um, I think a better system is like the mastery system if you could do a mastery system like that from the start Where you're like wins gain you something Without showing your elo You still get to progress. You still get to like show people. Yeah, I'm I've got this many points and I've got whatever And the good players will still get more points than the than the bad players The bad players will still be losing, but you don't have that elo and then that sort of haughty. Oh, you're fucking silver Well, I'm flat. Well, I'm master like and even early paragon had that problem too agorad.gg was available from essentially minute one of paragon's existence And yeah, it did the same thing to the community is the second you got into game People looked up your name and went oh this guy's in silver I don't want to be in this game. Get me out and that and just from minute one It was bad and then that so that silver guy can never climb out of silver elo because people are just fucking dumping him um So something and we've been talking about them several times recently, but halo infinance rank system Is you can only ever go up. You never go down So if you lose a game you don't lose elo when you win you gain Statistically that is going to put you slightly higher in terms of skill level They because it's there's no actual fluctuation necessarily. It's just they on wins you go up So it'll put you slightly higher than your actual skill level But that also gives you the opportunity to grow as a player By pushing you just that little bit by putting matching you with people that are just slightly higher than your skill level consistently and that's across the board so That system I think is also way better because there's no feeling of defeat when you lose It's just a reward when you win Right, it's not I it doesn't take me Four games to climb out of the one loss that I had right right And so it's it feels better despite being a very similar system at the same time I don't know. Have y'all actually seen y'all actually playing in the over prime dimmer last year I before I got into the whole elo thing and learned You know into the fault elo. They actually had kind of a thing but all their like So-called elo stuff matchmaking statistics rank. They had a rank system. It was all in game You could just scroll over to a tab and you'd see it. I don't know how they did theirs, but I always kind of Like I didn't have a place where I'd see like, oh, I lost this much. I'm like, I don't want to play anymore I would actually keep playing because and then they even had They had so many things that would help you learn like You could go to like the tree the breakdown tree. You could see every single skill That any every player use what they activated Anything they upgraded and what time they did it at I was like, this is extremely helpful for me that I need to know I'm always like a time person. I have to have This has to be here and this has to be done at this time and then I need to do this I like if I don't get the sequence in my head correctly You'll see me just stumbling around like, uh Where am I supposed to go again? And then all of a sudden I die and I get behind and I'm like But I just really liked there in over it just back then it was The only game I could play because I think fault Was just about to come out. It was still not released in EA yet But I just liked how they had in-game chat when you're waiting They had lobby chat where you're just with your buddy Or a team you can still chat with it. It had an all chat also. So anybody that actually Online on the game they would actually have the way you could chat with people. So I don't know they had all these features. It was like and that was over a year ago I can't wait to see what they have now. I just hope I'll add something like that where you can just chat with your teammates because sometimes I'll join people that Watch my stream, but if I'm streaming, I don't want to be in voice chat But I still want to be able to talk to them. So it'd be nice if I could have like while we're waiting for a match A nice place to chat with them But I kind of got off the elo thing, but I mean you were talking about elo there at the beginning, which I didn't know they had which I Again, I don't think they should have had that back then. I don't think they should have had any kind of Elo display It does sound helpful that you could look at the top players and see what their builds were and when they unlock stuff And it was per match. It's like the recent match. It was like in the recent match thing You would just see exactly what you build what all your teammates build what the enemy build And when they did it even if they used I think it showed Yeah, I don't think it showed when they used a skill or anything But it actually showed when they bought a card when they did what stuff like that. That's a neat system I think something I've seen from league recently that they're it's still in testing They haven't officially released it is that there's actually going to be a setting to opt out of that third party data Where like like that people can search your elo that people can search your rank that people can search your match history all these things And I think that is a setting all of these games need to consider And I think it should be on by default and opt in To sharing that data with these third party websites Because then your players feel better because they don't feel like someone's constantly going to like Search them up and then just flame them for having a bad game last game or whatever it may be But I think that's a brilliant way to do it that more companies and games need to consider A system like that where you can hide your statistics The the issue with that becomes a if you are hiding your statistics What are you hiding so your teammates could be like why why aren't you showing your statistics? Come on. What's going on? What rank are you? What's what's this? And so it is a double-edged sword It's just finding the balance of how to do both things without causing other problems Yeah, that sounds yeah, I really like that idea Sounds like there's a lot of options out there for these people for these companies to go with I just I hope they pick one up I feel like the majority of them should just avoid public elo For quite some time. Yeah when when they first release public elo is just going to be detrimental What fault is the prime example of this? Right that it became that's all it became about you need to have When you first release have some other system to keep player retention up do not use public elo. Please god Yeah All right, that's about all I had to say about elo. Do you guys have anything else? Oh, that's it I think I think we put our heads together came up Across other games and with our own ideas. I think we came up with some pretty good ideas tonight and kind of I'm proud of us. I'm proud of you too Ex pingus. Let's go and close it out from the topic of discussion. Let's move on to plugs Blood hunter. What do you got to plug? everything I've got my twitch Which is the same name F blood hunter. I've got I've recently got on tiktok You know, it was weird after like a two days. I had like 150 views on one. I was like cool tiktoks to the same name the only thing that's different is uh My twitter is I blood blood hunter and then my youtube is my normal name foolish blood hunter So That's about it. I got all your stuff except your twitter if you can send that to me afterwards You're out. I'm Twitter got too toxic for me. I'm still on there, but just I don't use it that much Jelly what you got the plug Just my twitch, you know marvellous monday every monday at eight mountain time um And I think that's it. What about you mangus marvellous mondays be there or don't be there I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, but it's fun. So I would say show up I was going to show up Uh last this past monday, but I think I was It's like every time I see him on it's like I'm I'm already watching two other people at the same time I'm like I need to add in a third one and I'm like, I don't know. Should I just lure it? I need all the monitors for so we need all the monitors there you go All right. Well that is going to close it up for this week Thank you for joining us again. If you want to be part of the show just hit me up Uh, I'll put you on the list. We already got I think we're scheduled out for about six seven weeks now But I'll fit you in when I can and uh, it's getting popular Well jelly, I keep meaning to ask if you have anybody just let me know Yeah, I'm me. I'm here every week. I put myself at the phone. I've already got you every week twice a week It's already too much I got you I got you an idea for uh, you know closing out music if you want to hear it Uh, is it copyrighted? I don't know. It's just it's just a A music box You're scaring me here Because I'm thinking you're about to play something copyrighted. It's not copyrighted All right, go for it. Subscribe to man goose Hey, I don't know if you can hear it. I can't hear shit Okay, all right, I guess I'll have Well, that'll close it out for this week folks Thanks for coming and hanging out if you're watching the premiere then uh, we'll see you around if you're watching it in the video And thanks for uh, thanks for watching. Uh, make sure you hit that like button and subscribe I know jelly already said it, but I'm going to plug myself Because I could do that jelly I appreciate you coming out. We'll see you guys next time Man goose Shout out to channel members foolish blood hunter jelly knees me all mixed for men stunt and ferret