 The mysteries of Islam fascinate us time and time again. This is no different from the life story of the Prophet. Who was Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa alihi wasallam? An illiterate dozen merchant who one day stumbled upon amazing Arabic rhetoric. Or was he the creation of Allah's greatest light, sent down to earth to pull man out of ignorance and bring them to the purest of truths? I, Ali Burji, am on a journey to discover the real story behind the Prophet, the real story behind our religion, the roots, the beginning, the cradle of civilization. Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. It's very nice to see you again and you said that you had some questions and you wanted to discuss things about the Prophet, please. First of all, thank you so much, Doctor, for sharing some time from your viable schedule. Basically, as I told you over the phone, I wanted to acquire more knowledge with regards to our religion, our deen. Alhamdulillah, Rabbil Alameen, Allah has shown me the path and I have embraced the wilayah of Amir al-Mu'mineen. But I feel that there is a big gap with regards to the existence of Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa alihi wasallam. And his holy progeny, Ahlul Bayt, alaihi wa sallam, I want to go into a journey with you, insha'Allah, and find out the reality of the existence of Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam. His importance in dunya, in akhira, before the creation of Bani Adam, I want to find out how was the Holy Prophet created, when was he created and from there on, insha'Allah, would like to go into the journey of his existence and up until where he proclaimed his prophethood in Makkah and explore the history with you, insha'Allah. So if you can please, maybe we could start all the way from the beginning, the creation of the Ka'un, of the universe, of existence itself. Where was Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam? What's his part, his part in the creation of Allah's part? And where did his stuff come from? Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim. Al-Alamin wa Salatu wa Salam. Al-Alamin wa Salam. This is a journey, it's a huge journey. The subject is very deep. It will contain various aspects of the life of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi in this world and before this world and after this world. So it's, I can't see how far we can go in discussing this topic. Various aspects are involved. But insha'Allah, we'll start. You mentioned that when and how the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi was created. We have numerous Hadith in Al-Kafi and other sources that the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi of course in our books and also in Sunni reference books. The Prophet is asked about the creation of his existence, if you like. There is a very well-known Hadith when Jabir ibn Abdullah al-Ansari asks him what was the first thing that Allah created and the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi answers, The first thing that Allah created was the Nur, if you like, the light of your Prophet or Jabir. So that is the shortest, if you like, narration that we have, Hadith that we have and it's well-known. And there are various numerous other Hadiths in our references where the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi is asked or Amir ibn Mu'mineen alaihi salam, Imam alaihi salam was asked about the creation of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi. Or Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq alaihi salam. And various other Imams of course. I will mention one or two, if you like. For example, Imam Sadiq alaihi salam says, or at least one of the Imams, kan Allah is la kan. When there was only Allah and there was no other existence. There was no other being whatsoever. Of course, this first piece takes us to the discussion of Tawheed, which of course we're not discussing at the moment. And another Hadith, for example, Imam alaihi salam, he begins with this. Kan Allah wala shay am'a. When there was Allah and there was absolutely nothing else alongside. So in here, in this Hadith, kan Allah is la kan. There was Allah and there was no other existence. There was no other being. And Allah created from the light of His Majesty, from Nur, from the term is used, Nur azamati. The light of His greatness and His Majesty. Allah created the light of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi. When you mean the light of His Majesty, does that mean that the light originates from Allah s.p.u.t. as in it's part of Allah s.p.u.t.? Or is it a light that He created, which is specifically the Nur for Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam? It's a good question. Other Hadith, as I said, if we want to sort of discuss this in depth, we need to bring together all the various Hadiths, which each one explains certain aspects of this whole concept, if you like. Yes, there are other Hadiths where the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi says that he created the light, which is the light of all lights. The light which illuminated the heaven and earth. Which still illuminates? Still illuminates, of course. The light which illuminates the heaven and earth. The light of the lights, Nurul Anwar, that is the term which has been used in various or numerous Hadiths. And it is that light which Allah created. It is that light which forms the foundation, if you like, the light of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi. And of course, in various other Hadiths, in some Hadiths where it mentions only the Prophet, there are other Hadiths which mentions that from that light Allah created Muhammad and Ali, Ali ibn Abi Talib, alaihi salam. And another narration says from that light Allah created Muhammad and Ali and Fatima, alaihi salam. So, yes, Allah created that light. And from that light Allah created the Nur, the light of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa alihi. And it says, we were lights before Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, in the presence of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, if you like. Bayna yadayah is the term which is used. And of course there are, I just wanted to say, there are other Hadiths which says Allah created the 14 individuals. And the narrator asks the Imam, I think it's Imam al-Sadiq, alaihi salam, and the narrator asks, who are the 14 individuals? He says Muhammad and Ali and Fatima and Hassan and Hussein and the Imams from al-Hussein, alaihi salam, until the Imam al-Mehdi. Aja Allah ta'ala farajah al-Sharif. So, as I said, I'm being very concise, very brief. We have numerous Hadiths. It would be good if we could have a session where I could present all the Hadiths, but it would be a very in-depth Hadith, a very specialized work that you need to bring together all the Hadiths and see the sort of aspects that they deal with. But at least in brief, this is the idea that Allah creates that light, associates that light with His Majesty, His Greatness. Any details with regards to the creation of the night? But it is not from His essence. So that means it's not part of Allah? It's not part of Allah. It's a creation. That's right. In the same way when we, for example, we say, baytullah, the Ka'bah is referred to as the house of Allah. That doesn't mean that it's part of Allah. And there are sometimes people who misunderstand what you have seen. They say when Allah SWT about the creation of Adam or says, nafakhtu fihim ur-ruhi. And they think that, oh, this is part, this Ruh is part of Allah. And therefore Adam or we are kind of, there is a sense of divinity which is absolutely false. There is no such thing. When he says nafakhtu fihim ur-ruhi, that Ruh, it's Allah associates with himself, to himself as part of giving the status of this Ruh, if you like. Just as Allah SWT, in order to impress on the status of this house, calls it baytullah. So it's not part of, just as this house is not part of Allah, that Ruh also is not part of Allah SWT. It makes sense. There is absolutely no association between all creation and Allah SWT. The only association is that Allah created them. There is no, because unfortunately... If you associate something with Allah, you automatically limit him. Is that why? No, that's part, if you like a small part, but there is absolutely no resemblance, there is no association between any creation, whether it's the master of creation, if you like, which is the Prophet SAW, Sayyid al-Khalq, the Prophet SAW, or any other creation. They are all creation. There is absolutely no association or relation with the essence of Allah, with that Allah, Allah is something completely different. In fact, when Allah comes to describe, explain, if you like, His nature, basically says in the Quran, there is absolutely nothing like His example. So anyway, this is to do with Tawheed, and of course it's an extremely important thing. A lot of people have some misunderstanding in this respect. When they read things like, or at least they try to derive, some of the people who have deviated, if you like, from the teachings of the Quran and Ahl al Bayt, they try to use such verses for their ends. But anyway, that's not the issue that we're discussing today. So it's yes, that light is a creation, it's not part of the essence. It's not part of that Allah. It's not from that Allah. So just correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to rephrase just to make sure I've got everything correct. So Allah swt created the purest of pure lights, the first ever creation. And from that pure light, as you've mentioned it, as the light of His majesty. Yes, of His glory. And from that light He created Rasulullah, Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam. Now you mentioned, certain hadith mentioned that also the creation of Ahlul Bayt, Ahlul Masalam, was that together? Would you believe that Allah swt created Rasulullah, Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam together with the 14 Ma'asumin, all together? Or maybe He created Ahlul Qisa, for example. Ahlul Qisa? Yes, meaning I meant the first five, for example. Rasulullah, Amirul Mu'mineen, Fatima al-Zahra, Hassan al-Hussain, Alaihi Wasallam. And then He created the rest of the Ma'asumin. Did the Ma'asumin were created all at the same time together? I just need to get a clarification, because I'm quite doubted. I don't know the procedure. At least the hadith that I've come across, they don't specify whether it was together or whatever later. I think by the impression that I get is yes, they are together. Because as I said, Allah swt created the light of the Ma'asumin. And at least I haven't come across hadith which says that first created the Prophet and Ali al-Ali was-Salam, and later on, for example, created Fatima al-Zahra and the other Imams. At least if there is such a thing, I haven't come across it. So my impression is that they're together. At least if it's not together in close proximity in our term, time-wise. So yes, that's sort of the basic understanding that at least the gist of it is that Allah swt created before he created anything, before he created the skies or the earths, the planets and the galaxies or the Arsh, as we say, the angels, the Jannah and Nahr, the paradise and fire. Before he, Allah created any of these. When there was absolutely nothing, the light of the 40 ma'asum, Ali al-Salam? Once that was done. So once from non-existence, we've entered existence with the creation of the Nur of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. What came afterwards? What was the procedure of the completion of existence, meaning did Allah swt create the angels after? Did he create Dunyan Akhira and then the Malaika? What occurred? We have in the Hadith from Ahlul Bayt, Ali al-Salam, and also from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. When I say Ahlul Bayt, there are the 40 ma'asum. Sometimes we have the Hadith specifically from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, from Amir al-Mu'mineen or the other Imam, Ali al-Salam. When Allah created us, the Hadith says, we worshipped Allah swt for a very long time. It was a long time before Allah swt created the Malaika, if you like. We have expressions like year, which of course we don't know whether year, which means the year of 365 days that we have in here. And we have expressions like daher, alfa daher. We worshipped Allah for alfa daher. Sometimes they say alfa alfa daher, a million daher. A daher and year, a lifetime of a planet or a galaxy. Something like this. That means that could have been for hundreds of thousands of years? Or billions of years. So we don't know what daher is, but basically we know daher, a lifetime of, as I said, it's used for a lifetime of a planet, a lifetime of an individual, if you like, or a lifetime of other beings. So we have years, even when it says, like we were there for 70,000 years or 400,000 years or a million years, alfa alfa daher, alfa alfa am, or sena. When it says that we don't know that year, how long is that year? Obviously it's not going to be the 365 days that we have in here, the solar year that we have in here, depending on the rotation of the earth around the sun. So what you could be pretty confident about is they were a very long time, as far as we're concerned, they spent worshiping Allah SWT, and after that Allah SWT started creating other entities, other beings, whether the loaqalam, arsh, jannah, naar, and the melaika, the angels, and if you like the galaxies, they expressed as the suns and moons and planets. So that came much after the original creation of Allah SWT, the first thing which he created, which is the naur of the 14 masjum. And the naur, so I just wanted to go into detail with regards to, for example, the creation of the angels. I know that the angels were as well created from naur, and we, Benny Adam, the human beings were created from clay to rub, and the jinn, for example, were created from fire. Now that naur that Allah SWT created the angels, was that different from the naur of Rasulullah SAW? Yes, in fact we have... Is there a difference in the existence of those naurs? Is there a different kind of naur? Definitely, we have expressed, he says that, from various other naurs, but certainly if you like the caliber or what term to use, the naur of the prophet SAW and his Ahlul Bayt is different from the naur of the melaika. Okay, so now we have Allah SWT that's created Rasulullah SAW at least as a naur stage, and we have the creation of the melaika, and Allah SWT has created Haqqira and Dunya, and was Jahannam created as well back then, from the beginning? Jahannam, hell, as we know it, the fire. So were they created then, back then? Again, I haven't come across as to at what stage exactly, Jahannam if you like was created, but it certainly was created sometime later on after the creation of, if you like, the Arsh, the Loh, Qalam, the melaika and so on, the angels. It's probably afterwards, but I haven't come across as to precisely when it was. Is it true that Adam, Bani Adam, or let's say Adam, because he's the origin, was he created after the Jinn? Were we the last, as far from what we know from the creations revealed to us by our holy prophets and the Holy Quran? We were the last to be created, meaning melaika Jinn and then us. So before us, in the heavens, with regards to knowledge of existence, the knowledge of reality and understanding the oneness of Allah SWT, was that something Allah SWT instilled in the creation or for example the angels? Or was something the angels had to go through discovering to acquire knowledge? Was the knowledge instilled inside them so they were created and automatically they knew the position of Allah SWT, the power, his might, where they were of their existence or did they have to go through the procedure of learning themselves like similar to human beings when we are born into dunya where we have no memory of what happened before. Is that how it happened? How did it work basically? In the case of melaika, we have some, at least I have conquered some hadith which explain, give us some ideas to their knowledge and their understanding. Certainly in terms of learning we have various hadiths that when Allah created the melaika, the angels, they learnt from, we have various hasiths that the Prophet and the Ma'soomeen, Ahlul Bayt, they taught the melaika about worship of Allah SWT. So specifically we have that and we have a hadith from the Prophet, SAW, or from Ahlul Bayt, is that when the melaika saw us after the creation of the melaika in order, even though they knew that there is Allah and we are created by Allah, but in order to make sure that they don't get any misunderstanding that we have any association or at least to prove that we don't have in us any sense of deity, if you like, we worshipped Allah, glorified Allah and tahlilu, takbir, saying Allah is the greatest, la ilaha illa Allah, subhan Allah, walhamdulillah. Not specifically in the same order, but in order to make it clear to the melaika that these lights are a creation of Allah SWT, they are worshipping Allah SWT and they are not deity, they don't have the essence of deity in them. We have this hadith that they told the melaika, they made sure that the melaika understand that they are not deity, they don't have any essence of deity in them, diviness in them and then they wanted to teach them the acts of worship of your life. So specifically we do have such hadith. So they were created for the sole purpose of also guiding the rest of creation, not just the human beings? Yes, definitely. This is opening other avenues now. Yes, not only they guided the melaika, the angels, but I don't know how much time we have, but we have various hadith that Allah SWT created thousands of other worlds, worlds like ours. Really? And we have even hadith which says, Elfa Elfa, which is a million. So, and also for each of those words there is Elfa Elfa Adam. And the Imam says, for example there is a hadith from Imam Hassan al-Mushtaba It says, I am Allah's authority upon all of them. All the million world and million Adam. Million Adam means just as we had one Adam here and from him we have like billions now and over a course of 10, 20,000 years or whatever between us and Adam, I don't know. Just as we have this, if you like, chain of generations from Adam until now and until whenever, we've had things like this, worlds like this and Adam's like this and the descendants of their respected Adam for in various other worlds, at least a million other worlds before us. And we are the last. The Prophet said, when Allah created Adam, Allah placed my Nur in the loin of Adam, alayhi salam and that Nur was transferred from one Prophet to another, if you like. The ancestors of the Prophet, alayhi salam, they were all Muslims and there were some other statements which indicate that they were all either prophets or a prophet or an appointed successor to a prophet.