 We are live episode 53 of Recovery Monday, which means we've done more than a year of these now. So today we're gonna have a little chat about the holidays because this today is November 21st, 2022. Anybody who's watching a replay in the future, we are just before Thanksgiving is this week here in the US, which means the holiday season is starting. So we're gonna have a little chat about holiday anxiety because it's an actual thing. It's a real thing for a lot of people actually. So we'll talk about challenges and what to expect and how you can sort of rise and meet those challenges and specifically what's not failing because a lot of people are gonna try and declare failure over the holidays, which is not fair. So we're gonna talk about doing your best. We're gonna talk about what's challenging. We'll take some questions. You guys can talk about it in the comments. Of course, I'm gonna put the comments up on the screen here so that we can start doing that. Hey, GBG, first one in. Assuming you guys can hear me, this might be a little less heavily attended because I don't know if everybody's interested in this topic but we'll give everybody a chance to arrive. Say hello, let me know you can hear me. Let me know where you're coming from. Well, I drink. So exciting watching me drink water, right? Billy Garland, how are you? Hello, Kathleen, good to see you. Is anybody, let me know where you're coming from. Let me know how everything's going today. Kind of have winter in New York. It's the first time I had to go out. I was out for a walk and actually wear a coat. Like it was 25 degrees Fahrenheit last night. So there you go. Hey, Sharice, Ellen, problems over here. Finally, problems over here. I hear you, finally. Hello, Amanda, Bessie, B, what's going on? Illinois. So when you pop in, just let us know where you're from. I have my little holiday, my fall, my Thanksgiving graphic behind me. I don't know if you could see that with the leaves. I don't know. Hello, fellow Long Islander. Tabitha from Indiana. Monica from Pittsburgh. Yeah, 18 in New Hampshire. It's cold in the Northeast. It's getting cold, so winter is here. But that makes it feel very holiday-esque, I think, 76 in Florida. Jason's in the Greek Belly Garages in Florida. It's 76 degrees out. It's not natural. Come on, people. So anyway, we are gonna, the hags in the house is Bessie, hot anxiety girls, HAGS, hags. So today we're gonna talk about the holidays. So you see the fancy background? Like no kidding, this is a joke. No joke. Hello from Atlanta. If you're coming from the Facebook group, I won't be able to see your name. I always remind everybody of that. So we might have a small group today, which is okay, totally fine. People tend to kind of wander in as they remember, which is totally fine. So let's talk about holiday anxiety. Anxiety that sort of ramps up from around the holiday season. First, let me acknowledge that I understand that from our friends overseas, it is not Thanksgiving for you. So if you're not from the U.S. Today, this week Thanksgiving is on Thursday. It is always, I guess, the last Thursday of every month here. I never know that. And that sort of officially starts the holiday season here. So we have Thanksgiving. And then before we say that we have Christmas and then I don't know where Hanukkah falls this year. So if anybody wants to fill me in and educate me on that, I'd be happy to hear about it. So I'm not sure exactly where Hanukkah falls in the season this year, but then we have Christmas in four weeks and then we have New Year's, which is a week right after that. So it's one thing right after another. Cranberry sauce gives me anxiety, Jason. Hey, cranberry sauce is the shit, man. Don't diss my cranberry sauce. But anyway, so let's talk about that a little bit. Last Thursday of November, last Thursday. Oh, did I say last Thursday of the month? I'm sorry, that was a misspeak. No, we do not have Thanksgiving every week, every month in the US. It is the last Thursday in November is our Thanksgiving. Canadian Thanksgiving is earlier. I know you guys have Thanksgiving or some kind in the UK. I don't know when that is. Anyway, so we're kicking off the traditional holiday season, although I might argue that at least for the last 10 years, I don't know how you guys feel about this, I feel like it starts earlier and earlier. Like by the time we hit Halloween, like already that's people are targeted by Christmas. So anyway, let's talk about the holiday. So if you guys are here, all the hardy band of 30 of you or so, does anybody deal with that situation where when the holiday season hits, your anxiety begins to rise? It's very common. So I wanna hear if you guys have this particular problem. Because enough people do that, I thought it was worth talking about today as the holiday season kicks off. And in the US, Black Friday starts today. Don't even get me started. I actually have a Black Friday thing coming out on Friday on the anxious morning where I do a typical rant where I hate it. But yeah, when the holiday season starts, a lot of people like really ramp their anxiety kind of ramps up. I will talk about why that is and what the challenges are and what you can kind of do about that, I think. And in the US, Thanksgiving is probably one of the biggest or the biggest holiday because it's a legal holiday. It's a non-religious holiday and like everybody for the most part, there are certain pockets of different faiths that do not acknowledge Thanksgiving. But for the most part, it's a national holiday. It's one national holiday where there's also traveling and family get-togethers and all of those things. And in the cold weather, so it's indoors, right? So that usually starts the fancy holiday anxiety. And I know we're at this time of year where you're gonna see all the silly anxiety memes about this is the time of year where I put my regular anxiety away and I put in my fancy Christmas anxiety or my holiday anxiety, but it's true. And I think one of the things that kicks it off this week in Thanksgiving is that. So let's see what people are saying. We'll sort of stay in the comments as we go today. Planning, prepping, socializing, cleaning, memories of anxiety during the holidays, the pressure of having a good time with family. These are all good things. Let's throw them up on the screen here. I'm happy to do that. So Ellen says the pressure of having to have a good time with family. On Thursday on the anxious morning, I actually talk about that. Like that Thursday's Thanksgiving episode coming up Thursday morning is when it's really hard to be thankful. Even when the calendar says you're supposed to be. Amanda's talking about memories of anxiety during the holidays. That could be a thing. Here we have Marina Penelope Cruzify talking about planning and prepping and all that stuff. There's pressure. People feel pressure for sure. Jason's not pulling any punches here. GBG says, I had to see people I hate during the holidays. I think this is really common, right? In the end, let's see here. Okay, Valerie says, typical Valerie, this is super common. You're definitely not alone here. I don't mind my anxiety to be too noticeable and disappoint family. It's that disappoint family. Ooh, here's another one. It's a good one too. Thank you, Gina. I appreciate you sharing. Having to act happy. Like I feel all of these things. So just a reminder, for those of you who don't haven't been following long enough, I would call myself completely 100% a thousand percent recovered for many, many years now. But I was you guys too. Like so I have lived this for quite a long time. I lived this problem too. And Thanksgiving was a tough one for me. I'm not gonna lie. And it was most of these things. I never felt the need to put on an act or try to act happy. Like that's never been a thing for me. But just for me it was there's gonna be a ton of people around. I don't get to like engage in all of my comfort things. I can't escape to my comfort zones. I just can't do that. I'm trapped. It's gonna be a six hour day or a 10 hour day or an 11 hour to however long it would be. Either I'm visiting someone else's home or I have a ton of people in my home. And I didn't have the pressure of I have to act okay. It was just like, but I'm not okay. I don't feel okay right now. And I don't have a way to try to make myself feel okay. Cause I'm sort of trapped in this. And I didn't like it. I did not in any way like Thanksgiving. It was probably the toughest day for me for sure. So that is one thing for sure. There's the being trapped in the holiday. So whether it's Thanksgiving in the States or Christmas gatherings or holiday parties that become really popular. There's just more social gathering this time of year which can be really difficult for people like us. I totally get that. If you're starting from a place of social anxiety that's difficult as it is. But no matter what your anxiety problem is a lot of times socializing being in groups of people, parties like it could be really challenging. I totally get that. Then there's the additional challenges that come along with things like people pleasing or thinking that you are responsible for making the holidays. Very, very common. Like incredibly common. So if my anxiety will ruin everyone's Thanksgiving or will ruin everyone's Christmas that somehow you put it on yourself that you can either make everybody happy, make the holidays great or destroy the holidays. Like you somehow nominate yourself that it is your sole responsibility to create this picturesque amazing holiday experience for everybody. Or you can completely destroy it and you're the worst person ever. There's that. There's the mechanical pressure of like Penelope I would say Penelope. Marina was saying earlier, the prepping, the food, food is a big part of it. We're social animals and we eat socially. Food takes a big part, takes a big role in these sort of celebrations. Preparing, shopping, cooking, making everything look nice. There's a lot of pressure or perceived pressure that can go into this. And anytime an anxious person is pressed, they're stressed, there's pressure, there's demands depending on where you are in your recovery. Those demands can trigger that fear and anxiety response. It's really common. If you deal with intrusive thoughts or OCD, it can ramp that up. Anything that's stressful in your life can sort of trigger that sticky thoughts, like loud thoughts thing that happens. Really common. And the pressure often presses you outside of your comfort zone even if you're in your own home. Like for me, when there were a lot of people here at the house, I'm still at my house. When I was at my worst with panic attacks and feeling agoraphobic or going through depression, I was home yet my home, my safe place was taken away from me because there's just 25 people in it. So it's really difficult, right? So these are all really common reasons why people will say that their anxiety ramps up. Another one is there's the whole shopping thing. We have to acknowledge it in a way. There's a materialistic part of this part of year, time of year, which I don't, I hate, but it exists, so I'm not gonna pretend it doesn't. So that adds to the burden of I might have to go out shopping or I'm shopping online, when a thing's gonna get delivered, I have to get the perfect presence, I have to be super thoughtful. This is where the gifts that I give confirm that I am loving and caring. So it plays into some of those cognitive distortions where you think that being an excessive warrior and doting on everybody somehow proves that you're loving and a good person. So this time of year can fuel that and really ramp it up in a big way or you might have to go out shopping, which is kind of difficult. And the other stressor that we don't talk about a lot is the financial stressor. So in the time of year, especially that officially starts on Friday, that's the buy stuff time of year. If your anxiety situation, your mental health situation is placing a financial burden on you, then it really sucks when every ad you hear on the radio or YouTube ads or on TV reminds you, there are sleigh bells and there are people buying stuff and it's for gifts. And here in the US, if I see, I can't do another year of Lexus December to remember like expensive cars as Christmas gifts, it's making me crazy. So let's acknowledge that too, that if you are under financial strain because of your anxiety situation, this can like ramp that right up too because this is a constant reminder that, oh, this is the time of year where you're supposed to give gifts and maybe you don't have a lot of money to give gifts right now. I mean, we could argue that philosophically, I don't know how we got into this whole gift giving thing, but that's not the point. The point is that is at least in the West, the norm. And if you're unable to participate in that for financial reasons or mental health reasons, that can be triggering too. And it can present a real challenge and it can make you feel really bad. So I get that, I totally get that. So let's see what else people have to say about this. Screaming grandkids, let's see here. Okay, let's see. Well, this is kind of cool. I appreciate this comment. Some people have this level of support. Luckily for me, my family totally knows I have issues with anxiety, so they are super supportive when it strikes. I think this is a pretty big deal to be honest with you. And whether or not they do support you, and Bessie, that's awesome that you have that. And I hope, I wish everybody had that. Some people do, not everybody does unfortunately. But I think one of the things to keep in mind is part of the recovery process and the things that we are learning goes beyond just the mechanics of panic attacks and anxiety and intrusive thoughts. You start to really understand that like, oh, even if I did have a swing and panic attack at Thanksgiving, they can all look at me and they might notice it and I might have to excuse myself, but even if they're not supportive and they wanna mumble under their breath, I can still handle that. So I can handle the panic, I can handle the anxiety, I can handle the discomfort, I can come back the other side and then sort of rejoin the party if you will. And whether or not people are doting on me and oh my God, are you okay? Which I would hate them to do anyway. Or they're mumbling and looking at me funny because they think it's weird that that just happened. I'm okay either way. So that judgment thing can really become hugely magnified this time of year when there's a ton of people around you that you think are looking at you and might judge you for how you're feeling right now. You're running the risk of incurring the wrath of negative judgment, which could be being cast out. It's turning your back on you. We're not gonna love you. Like there's a lot of threats that are more than just physical threats. And this time of year can really kind of magnify those. So Julie says it here, right? So how are you feeling on this, Julie? I'm afraid that the people I don't care for will judge me more. Like another negative they see. That's a tough one. If a negative self image or a fear of being judged which sometimes comes back to a confirmation that if people see me as negative, some people will say, well, they're completely wrong. I don't care. That's a them problem. But some people might say, well, really deep down when they see me as negative that just confirms for me what I know about myself already. So if you're struggling with those sort of negative self images and negative self-belief this time of year, difficult, very difficult. Ellen asks, do I like it now? Yeah, I like it. I don't dislike it. What's the best way for me to put this? I do not dislike the holidays in any way. I can find some enjoyment in the holidays for sure. I do enjoy being able to socialize with some friends that I don't get to see throughout the year. I like being with my family. So yes, I do get the benefits of the family now. I am not a huge holiday guy. I've never been. But yeah, I don't hate the holidays now. I guess I'm getting annoyed with some aspects of the holidays. The materialistic stuff has been grating on me more and more over the years, but I don't dread this. It's not like, oh no, it's the holiday season. Although again, by the time we hit New Year's Eve if I hear any more sleigh bells and commercials I'll lose my shit. What can I tell you? Let's see here. Jesus, this is good. Oh, I'm here. Hi, I'm Becky and my family is passive aggressive. I feel you, Becky. I understand a lot of people probably have this issue around holidays. We are subjected to all the jingle jingle. I heard that. Will you poke at me a little bit? So unfortunately, one of the other things, and I know I just keep giving you all the reasons why you might be anxious. I promise we're gonna get around to this, but we're subjected to all the dysfunction, all the annoying habits, all the different political views and religious views and arguments around the dinner table and uncles that might drink too much and grandpa smokes a cigar even though everybody hates it. So all of the things that we even really annoy us or that we just dislike even about the people we truly love, they're in our face this time of year. And that's again, anything that's a demand or pressure on an anxious person can be a triggering thing for sure. So what else we got going on in the comments? We're gonna get around to like how we can deal with this or one way that we can get to this. You're listening all the reasons I've been in contact with my family. Hello, Haley, welcome, glad you're here. Jay's talking about screaming grandchildren. Oh, let's pop this up here. It's all too much, I'm all about simplifying. Yeah, people things I get really weird during the holidays, it's all too much. I'm all about simplifying big time. Thank you, B, because that's one of the things that I really wanted to talk about. One of the strategies that we can use would be to try to simplify things as much as possible, although I understand there are wrinkles there, so we'll talk about it. Yeah, I get that, people with anxiety disorders. Let's see here. Ooh, I'm here for this. So Bessie says I'm all about breaking those perceived expectations that society has set for the holidays. When I say, when Bethany says simplify and I say, yeah, that's one of the strategies, but there are wrinkles, this is what I'm talking about, those perceived expectations. So if we go against them, that can feel like you're swimming upstream and that could be a challenge as well. And we know what we just said about challenges and demands, right? So let's keep going here. I'm in a place I haven't been in a long time since last night, I'm only scared of missing out. Okay, this is another one that sometimes is an issue. People are afraid that they're going to miss out on. There's the demand around the holidays that, oh, this is supposed to be precious family time. This is when memories are made. This is when I'm supposed to be bonded with my loved ones, especially if you have kids, like, oh, this is when it's supposed to be a magical time between me and my kids. Honestly, those are great things for people to want. We can aspire to those things emotionally, but the pressure to somehow live an idealic existence between November and January 1st, I don't get. Why can't August be special with your kids too? So be mindful of that as well, like the pressure that you think you're supposed to be some sort of perfect friend, partner, family member, parent, whatever this time of year can make things worse for us also. So let's see what else we have here. If I bought my wife Alexis, she would divorce me. There's a really funny skit. I might have been on Saturday Night Live, which I know isn't cool anymore, but they did a skit like that where the poor guy was out of work and he didn't know that he had to make payments on the car and he bought his wife Alexis and then discovered that he had to make like $1,000 a month payments and she was annoyed. Anyway, GBG could buy me Alexis. Don't tell your wife, you guys. All right, so let's talk a little bit about what we can do about that. And this is just, we'll kick around suggestions if you guys have questions or suggestions, throw them in the comments and we'll talk about it. I do not have in this video, like here are five steps to not panic at Christmas time. I don't have that, but I don't think you guys would expect that from me at this point anyway. But I think one of the things that we can start with is an acknowledgement that this is a challenge. So in many ways, the holidays could be a perfect textbook example of that forced challenge, that forced exposure. So we do our best to try to plan our exposures and make them incremental and systematic, you know all the words. But the holidays sometimes don't let us do that. It just, the holidays just jam stuff in our face and we have to deal with it, right? So understand and recognize like, hey, you know what? I'm going through a challenging time right now. I'm trying to make some changes, trying to do things differently, trying to get back to where I was, trying to learn some lessons here. This is gonna be a challenge for me and it's okay for it to be challenging for me because in this thing we do together, the challenge itself is the value, right? So try to keep that in mind. That would be my first holiday tip for you is try to remember that the value in recovery is found in the challenges. Now nobody wants to spend, you know, six weeks or whatever this is, like in a state of hot, elevated anxiety. We don't want that. But don't forget that being challenged is not you failing during the holidays. You're going to be challenged because you're going to be under pressure. You're going to have demands placed on you. You're going to place demands on yourself, which you might take some time to deconstruct and abandon over time. But at least right now those demands might still be there. So this is gonna be challenging. And I think it's important to say my goal here between Thanksgiving and New Year's Day is to just do the best I can. Like I can do the best I can. Sometimes you may have to escape for a little bit and get yourself together because this time of year can be an almost constant exposure depending on your social family situation. So if you have to back away a little bit and take a break, it's okay to do that. It's not failure. This is not like hardcore holiday exposure, brother. Like it doesn't have to be that. It's okay to recognize that there is challenges here. And in those challenges, there are lessons if we can find them and allow them. But also we will struggle sometimes, hopefully not as much as we fear but expect to struggle. And if you don't, it's a bonus. Try to find the lessons in the struggle and just do the best you can. If you have to take breaks here and there, if you have to back away from the process for a little bit and gather and recharge, it's okay to do that. If you have to use a safety behavior, if there's gonna be 35 people at your house on Christmas Eve, then you have to do my best Hulk Hogan impression there. So if there's gonna be 35 people at your house on Christmas Eve and you haven't had more than two people in your house for the last three years because of COVID and anxiety issues, then if you have to take a Xanax that day to get through that, that's really okay. Like you're hearing it from, I'm gonna tell you, I'll give you permission here. Do the best you can and learn the lessons where you can. I think that would be the overriding tip that I would give you trying to get through the holidays. This is gonna be tough. I know why it's gonna be tough. I will try to learn my lessons as I meet these challenges and I will just do the best I can. There is no need to flog yourself, beat yourself up, publicly declare disaster, tell everybody how much you suck, tell everybody how much you're not getting better. There's no need for any of those things. When you have to express frustration, express the frustration, allow that. If you're in my Facebook group, come and bitch and whine in the Facebook group if you have to, it's okay, that's why we're here. Tell your friends, tell your partners. It's really okay, totally fine. Just don't beat yourself up. Express your feelings, express your frustrations, but don't turn that into I'm gonna beat myself up as a soothing measure because I'm just gonna admit that I'm the worst at this and I'm never gonna get better so that nobody can accuse me of that. Sometimes that harsh self-talk and that harsh self-judgment is actually a safety and a soothing behavior. So you don't have to get in that cycle. So I think that's kind of where you have to start with this. Then you can start to look at some of the specific things like where are my challenges? Are my challenges being trapped in social situations where I cannot escape? People might see me panicking. People might see that I'm anxious. Or is it the problem that I have to travel to places and I'm agoraphobic and I have a problem traveling? Is it I have a problem eating in front of people? Very common. Do I have nausea issues? Am I a metaphobic? Am I worried about that? And here's all this food around the holidays. If you are dealing with an eating disorder, the holidays can be especially difficult. So think about where your specific challenges fall and consider like, okay, well, in those situations, again, I could just do the best I could do. Understanding that somebody might see me panic sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas and I'm going to have to allow that experience and be able to move through it to know that it is not the end of the world when that happens. I might have to eat in front of people and worry that they're looking at me and I look weird or what if I start to get nauseous? Maybe I'll have to excuse myself for 10 minutes and get myself together if my tummy is acting up. Just expect, again, the challenges and know that, well, let me just do the best I can to have a plan ahead of time, not obsessively planning and trying to stop the experiences, but you are allowed, you are allowed and encouraged in your rational times to say, okay, here's what I'm worried about tomorrow. I can do this, this, this and this. That's making a plan and being able to execute that plan. Everybody's allowed to have a plan. As long as the plan isn't, I will run away or I will not go to this. And maybe if you can't get to a thing this year, then you can't get to it. Next year you'll do better or you'll try to do better. That's okay. But the plan will be, what plan can I make to get through these individual challenges if I look at the challenge and I say, I'm really afraid of this exact thing and I'm not gonna sit and think about this thing for the next 17 days to try to, I don't know what, just think about it, just to think about it because I'm afraid of it. I will make whatever plan I can make. I will try to have things in place that I know I can do to navigate through as best I can. And then I'm going to have to just let that fear and then anticipation be there and the discomfort on the day will have to be there. So having a plan, creating a plan is not a bad thing. Just thinking again and again and again, this is horrible, this is horrible, it's gonna be terrible, that's not a plan. That's not a plan at all. What's gonna be horrible? What are you afraid of and what can you do to plan for getting through that? Not just thinking, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, hoping to find a way to prevent it. That's really important because you can make yourself crazy if you get trapped in that, right? So those are probably the two main things. And I guess gaining a little bit of understanding, although when you're in the thick of it, it can be really hard to gain that understanding and look objectively at that. On the back end looking in and when you start to gain a little bit of space and the front part of your brain is back online and chiming in, you'll be able to look and say, well, my family is crazy or whatever. My family is unrealistic. My expectations of myself were unrealistic. I'm working on that, I'm changing that. I'm working on being kinder to myself and loving myself a little more. You'll be able to do that sort of stuff and start to deconstruct some of the distortions and beliefs that drive some of the pressure during the holidays. But if you're not at that point now, and that fear that my family will judge me and that is a disaster is super strong, it would be really hard even though people will be well-meaning, they might say things like, oh, forget them, screw them, what they think doesn't matter. That they mean well, but I understand that's gonna bounce right off you. Again, you have to go back to, this will be a challenge, what can I learn from this? Am I willing to accept the challenge? What can I plan for in terms of navigating through this? What will I do? And then I'm just gonna have to do my best to let it happen and know that when I get to the end of the holidays, I've done the best I can, what did I learn? How am I different than I was six or eight weeks ago? I think it's really important to do that because even if you're having negative experiences or what you would call negative experiences, we can maybe take something out of this. And by taking something out of it, I don't mean demanding that you felt joy during the holidays. Just feeling neutral sometimes would be a huge win for some people, right? So those are the things that I kind of have to throw out there, but let's see what we have in the comments here, 26 minutes, really good. Gift cards are zero anxiety, that's true. Yeah, sorry Bea, I was mentioning a lot of reasons to be anxious, wasn't I? Okay, I'll throw this up on the screen, Rudy is a really common thing. You keep thinking something else, something else, it might be something else, but it might be something else. So in this situation, that's not holiday specific, right? That's just the disorder in general. So in that situation, it might be something else, the answer is, and you might find this really difficult now if you're in the early stages of this, the answer to that is it might be. I will never fully know that it isn't something else, but I can go based on my past experiences and my ability to not pour gas on the fire, be it in July and May or in Christmas Eve, I can work on not pouring fuel on this fire and getting caught in, oh my God, oh my God, what if, what if, what if? Because what if is not predictive and what if is not protective? What if is just what if? So that's not necessarily holiday specific Rudy, but I do understand that that is a struggle for sure. It's a struggle for everybody in the room right now. So let's see what else here. This happened to me last year, it says Kimberly had Thanksgiving at my house, I would never thought it had such anxiety. I was still panicking beforehand, okay. That can happen, right? So Kimberly says that she was panicking even before Thanksgiving, with only three people over, that's okay. That can happen. Again, the lesson is if I panic, what will I do and what am I going to do to navigate through that and get what I can get out of the experience? So difficult, difficult, but that is the way we kind of want to do this. What the hell just happened here? Somehow or other I have my desktop up, I don't know what that's all about. Stick with me guys, I don't know what just happened here, but I just somehow moved my window to a different desktop altogether. There we go. Let's go back to desktop one. All right, we're good. So anyway, let me look in the comments here and see what we have. Scroll into the bottom. You're all the same. Let's see if I catch up here. Thanksgiving used to be my favorite holiday. So I'm scrolling up to catch up where I can here. By me, Alexis, I saw that. Sorry, I know this is boring when you watch me do this. Done with it all. Anxiety, okay, so Debbie says, let's put Debbie's thing up on the screen. Done with it all. Anxiety, panic, depression has been going through this at March and Med's Family Therapy, losing patients now the holidays. Well, I think, yeah, darn technology is right. I don't know what happened there, but okay, sorry for the interruption. Anyway, losing patients. It can be easy to lose patients. And then when we get to the holiday time with these extra demands, I get that Debbie. I'm not surprised. It can be really hard to maintain patients, right? Throughout this entire process, no matter what time of year it is. So just remember that the holidays are gonna heap a little bit more stress on you and just understand that just because you're feeling that more frustration and feeling less impatient, that is not a barometer or that's not a dial or an indicator or a measurement that says you're not gonna get better or you can't get better. Right, it's really important to understand. And I think this goes for everybody, not just Debbie. And Debbie, thank you for sharing that comment. It's a good one. I think just because you're feeling more this time of year or you're feeling extra stress or you're feeling frustrated or you're feeling like this isn't working out for you, that does not mean that everything that you have worked for has gone at the window. It doesn't mean that you're never gonna get better. It just means you're in a challenging place right now. It's really important. So I get that. I discovered there's a bad place back then. It's bittersweet in a way. Oh, I get that. Hey, Carol, tell them to kiss it. No worries. Jingle, jingle. Okay, this I get too for sure. Thanksgiving Eve used to be my jam. Like you see the gray in my beard. But I remember when Thanksgiving Eve, Thanksgiving Eve is it's still like the biggest like partying night in the U.S. it might be because everybody's off the next day. And so going out with friends, especially in the college years you come home while everybody be back from college where we go out the night before. I super remember that. So it can kinda suck to not have that now. Yeah, okay, I get that. It's still a thing, right? Again, the gray in the beard. I'm a little bit, I'm kinda over that stuff now, but that's okay. So it can suck because you remember how much fun it used to be. That's okay, it can be fun again. But think of that the fact that we all get older, we all change, we have different experiences. It just might be different fun later. Maybe not the same fun. Maybe not the same fun ever again, but different fun and that's okay too. So open to all the experiences. Let's see here. Did you find that you find yourself completely exhausted? Okay, Angelique, I'll put this up. Yes, I can see the comment and I will do the best I can to answer for you. Do you find that when panic disorder at its worst, you find yourself completely exhausted and run down, especially during the holidays? Sure, I talk about this pretty often. I think people would tend to agree on this, that being in a heightened state of readiness and scanning and threat detection and agitation and anxiety and fear all the damn time, it does wear you down. It wears you down mentally, it wears you down emotionally and those two things are probably even harder than the physical exhaustion, but yeah, you can wind up at the end of a day, really wipe that and that's okay. I think the important thing to remember is there's a reason why I'm so tired right now. So yeah, I'm tired because I'm going through all this, but every little step I take forward matters and it adds up, they will add up over time and I know why I'm tired. So the biggest obstacle that I find in this community over the fatigue, which is common, I experienced it too, is experienced in the fatigue and then going into OMG mode about the fatigue. Are you supposed to feel tired? I'm so tired, is this right? Like when you are in a situation where you are always afraid of how you feel, when you get more tired than you think you're supposed to be and you judge that as this isn't right, I'm too tired, now I have to go into panic mode over being tired, that part isn't required. So know that it is common to be really tired, exhausted if you will, that's okay because you're under demands physically, mentally and emotionally that's going to mean that you're tired. That's why it's okay to rest when you have to rest, you can rest, it's really okay. We have to draw that balance between calling, two weeks of laying on the sofa because you're afraid, rest, that's not necessarily rest, that's retreat, but when you need to rest, rest, it's okay. And yes, you will be tired, you will be tired. Let's put Kathleen up on the screen. I find myself screaming in my children when they start humming Christmas tunes, I am a monster, she says. I know for a fact that Kathleen is not a monster, you are not a monster, right? But I get that, it is kind of funny. My oldest will start, she is addicted to Christmas music, she will start listening to Christmas music literally in October. In fact, it was right after Halloween, I think she sent like a family group text that said Mariah Carey has entered the chat because of course she had to break out the Mariah Carey Christmas songs. Anna, hello, good to see you, haven't seen you in a long time. Anna Giordano, welcome. Oh God, Hallmark Christmas movies. What, what up with that? The Hallmark, as you, surprise, I'm not a Hallmark channel guy, like who would have thought, right? But I get that, and Hallmark Christmas movies, we can laugh about them and I will make my share of Hallmark Christmas movie jokes this year. You can be assured of that. But I think we can look at that as part of that, part of what generates this unrealistic, ridiculous expectation for the family and like for what Christmas is supposed to be. And it's a time when magical things happen and all of that stuff, that's not true. I mean, maybe Hallmark takes it to such a ridiculous extreme that we can discount it as not being representative of what the real world is supposed to be because they just take it so damn far. But it does play into that a little bit. So let's see here. This is really good. Let me put Viola up on the screen, this made me laugh. The political stuff has been really bad for my family over the past few years. Look, let's acknowledge that too, that for the past however many years this has become a trend in families. There's political disagreements, there's ideological disagreements and things that never showed up around the dinner table or at family gatherings have begun to show up on a regular basis. Families have had fights and rifts and grudges and all that kind of stuff. So that's another thing that can kind of come up at you. But Viola, I like how you feel like, now that you're feeling better, like bring it on, you wanna argue with me? Let's do it, I'll throw it down. But yeah, that's another thing too, I get that. What the hell? I gotta put this up on the screen because rib removal is the newest in procedure. Oh, that's a cosmetic surgery thing? Is that what it is? Like smaller waste because you remove the rib? That's a problem, man. That's not cool. Magical, make it magical. Bethany is under intense pressure to make it magical. Too much pressure, I hear you. Oh, this is good. Let's put this up on the screen because this is really good because this is a typical thing, right? So I get this. I have to remind my mother every year that if my kid has to work on the holidays, I'm not driving 200 miles to attend and I'm not leaving my kids home in Thanksgiving and no, they can't ask off. Who among us in the room has not had that conversation? I feel that, I really do. Oh please, one of the famous things in my family is, oh please, give me a break. Like I'd love to give you a break but unfortunately the real world is still spinning and sometimes this happens. So that's a very typical example of how you just let me live, man. Like you're just trying to live your life. Your kid's just trying to live their life. You're just trying to do the best you can and you're gonna get family judgment because that means that the holiday won't look the way they want it to look. And that is that thing where it's like, well, you are responsible for making my holidays the way I want them to be. Like, well, I would love that too but sometimes we just can't do that. So I appreciate you sharing that because that's a very practical look at what sometimes holiday pressure looks like. Best he says, celebrate the way you wanna celebrate. I think we can all say that for sure. It's good advice. It's hard to do though. I understand it's hard to do. Going against those family things and those traditions and feeling like, I'm kinda out there, man. I'm just kinda out there. That's tough. If you put yourself out there and you start to go against some of these traditions and you question those demands and you push back against the pressure and the expectations, that can create another set of challenges now you can wind up in a conflict and too personally within your family. So it's a whole bucket of worms here. Again, I'm gonna go back to the overriding thing. Recognize that there are challenges at this time of year that might not exist in other parts of the year and just do the best you can. And that might mean that this year, you're not gonna fight those battles. You're not gonna walk in and turn the tables upside down and try to burn down the whole system. Maybe one day you'll do that and that's up to you to do that. And I don't know if that's right or not but that's up to you to decide but if you can't do that this year, that's okay. Like just do the best you can. Let's see here. Oh, Lisa's here from the Facebook group. Thank you, Lisa with full dust. Remember that you will most likely not remember the day and neither will anyone else. You know what? That is solid right there. Allow the day to be whatever it is, live it and when it's over, think about one thing you get from the day. I'm gonna go out on a limb here on this one because that is advice I have literally given people who are about to get married. Now you probably will not remember the specifics of Thanksgiving Day 2022 by Thanksgiving Day 2023. Nor will you remember the specifics of Christmas Eve or Christmas Day a year later. Yes, we do tend to have holiday memories, that's true but Lisa is 100% right there. Like don't make the day, it's a day. Don't make it any more than it has to be. And that could be said for a lot of other, one day we'll talk about wedding anxiety because I've had that conversation about wedding anxiety too because I think there's truth in that. Do the best you can is a good motto. Calling my doctor right now is some X, okay? I know you're kidding. Okay, this sucks, pony girl, let's put this up. Tried to explain my situation a few years ago when I was at my worst, it was a disaster. Now that side of the family doesn't even call, I wanna make my any plans, it's just awkward. Okay, I'm really, that's, I'm sorry, I only know you as pony girl but that sucks, like that's not cool. And a lot of times our family members cannot understand. If they have not lived the experience, they don't have the ability to fully comprehend. They can see that there's nothing for you to be afraid of. And sometimes they maybe just have a shortcoming in their ability to be a little bit compassionate and understand, okay, we get that this is a rational fear. She's working on it. Let's see what we can do for that. Sometimes the struggle that you're in makes other people uncomfortable. Sometimes they don't understand and it makes them angry. That's true and that sucks. Sometimes it makes them uncomfortable. So that's a lousy situation to be in but I can tell you that without knowing your family, it's a really common experience for things to break down a little bit when you're at your worst, but then many people will tell me that things improved again, like family and friend relationships approved again as they started getting better. So take heart in that. And if anybody wants to chime in in the comments with that, if that's your experience, I cannot, I don't know your family, I cannot guarantee that your family, your friends will come back around. But I've heard that often enough to know that it's actually a reasonably common experience that, oh, as I did begin to improve, like, yeah, those relationships began to like come back to normal and people wanted to talk about it. What happened? Would you explain it to me? And it's a little bit easy to explain when you're getting better than when you're at the worst. That's a tough time for everybody. So I'm really sorry about that. This is good too. Let's pop this up here. Amanda says, memories of past holidays and anxiety, I'm going to allow those thoughts to come and go like other thoughts, excellent. That's really good. Like that's really good approach for that. I appreciate that, Amanda. And thank you for sharing that because that's true. Like in the end, the memories of anxious holidays gone by suck and they may trigger us, you know, I hate to word trigger, but they might. But we can treat them just like, oh yeah, I'm remembering a really crappy time. But memories are not indicative of what's happening right now. They're not predictors. They're not dangerous. They just really uncomfortable. So all bad memories are uncomfortable for all human beings. So if you treat them as that, this is a really uncomfortable memory that I hate, but I don't have to act as if it's automatically reoccurring because I'm remembering it. That's a big conversation that spreads into larger parts of mental health for sure. I kid you not, I just had my house professionally cleaned so my family wouldn't judge me, but they judge me anyway for not cleaning it myself. Okay, I hear you. Hear ya. Sometimes there's just no winning. A bunch of judge duties. Let's see, what else we have? I'm nearing the bottom of the comments. You guys have been pretty good today. Smaller audience in a way, it's a little better. I could see the comments more. How do you deal with loss during this time? Well, Christine, I assume this means that you have lost somebody close to you and I'm really sorry that that is terrible news and my sympathies go out to you and your family if you have suffered a loss. I don't have any good answer for that. Just that grief is difficult no matter when it happens and you have to remember that grief is a normal part of loss. You have to allow it. You're gonna have to go through those feelings and process those memories and all of those, the tears and the hurt and the loss and the resentment or the anger or whatever comes up because of a big loss like that. Sometimes it's even harder this time of year because we've been talking about that sometimes there's added pressures and increased level of agitation and anxiety, but just know that when you have suffered a loss, it is normal to feel things, big things a lot. So the best I can say right now is how do you deal with it during this time? Well, you don't have any choice but to deal with it, but it's normal to struggle through it and it's probably a little bit more normal to struggle through it this time of year, especially we've all been there with like, oh, first Christmas without so-and-so or first Thanksgiving without so-and-so. Those are really, really hard things. Those are painful memories. They will trigger emotions, big emotions that you just have to go through them. Grief is a thing. There is a Megan, I can't remember Megan's last name. I've never worked with her, but I do follow her Instagram. I believe she is, what is her, Refuge in Grief, I believe, is her at Refuge in Grief on Instagram. Megan, she's written a book about it. She's kind of a bit of an expert in grief and grieving. You might want to check that out. She's a really good resource for that. So I would recommend checking out what she puts out there. And I'm sorry again for your loss. Okay, I'm gonna throw this up there because Kathleen is correct in jokes here, but there's something about that. I need to install a sensory deprivation chamber in my house for the holidays. Okay, well, maybe not a float tank, although maybe it'd be cool to have a float tank in your house, I don't know. But there's something to be said here. There's truth in Kathleen's joke, not Kathleen and Kathleen's joke. Because when I said before that doing the best you can might mean you have to back away and take some breaks, totally okay. I mean, if you could put a float tank in your bedroom and escape to that, that's probably really cool, but it's okay to back away, take some breaks and to even schedule that into the festivities, air quotes. So if you know that you're gonna want a little extra time to sort of have some alone time and decompress and process what you have to process and learn your lessons and slow down as opposed to rushing and running around all the time in the holidays, if possible schedule that. Hey, I'm looking forward to all of you guys coming over, but can you come over at two this year instead of the usual noon? And then it gives you two extra hours to prepare, slow down, get the food ready, whatever. So build the breaks in if you can and take them when you have to take them. It's totally fine. See, Bethany said that, Bethany beat me to it. Good job, B. Appreciate that. What else do we have here? My family's a nightmare. They're always trying to keep the peace. Oh, I always try to keep the peace. Let me throw this out here. My family are a nightmare, says Sharon. I always try to keep the peace. I feel like this year I don't know how to get through it. Well, some might argue, and here's where the internet is cool because you can access a supportive community like the one you're in right now, but sometimes it's not cool because the stock answer would be, oh, just let them do whatever they want. You are not responsible for that. Like I could just spew that at you. Like you don't have to keep the peace. That's not your job. I don't know why you think you have to do that, but it's not as easy as that. It's not as easy as that. So you could recognize that maybe consider that you might not have to be the peacekeeper. Like then that might come from a very long run of personal experiences that have taught you that you must be a peacekeeper because if there's conflict, if there's danger, I don't know your specific situations. I have to acknowledge that. But you might have to start from the assertion that I might not be able to be the peacekeeper this year. I'm not capable of being the peacekeeper. And that leads you to, well, do I have to be the peacekeeper? Well, if I feel like I have to be the peacekeeper to be safe, then can I reevaluate even why I'm in the room with some of these folks or how long I'm in the room with some of these folks? So it's okay to feel this. I understand how difficult that would be. But keep in mind that there can be options there. Like there are other ways to look at this and there are changes that can be made, even if they have to be made slowly, carefully, and based on lived experience, but hang in there. Jason is the cousin Eddie of the family. How did I miss that before? You're the guy emptying the motor home toilet in this with the cigar? That's one of my all time favorite movies. Christmas movies, by the way, I am a fan of ridiculous Christmas movies like Scrooge with Bill Murray, I'm a big fan. Christmas Vacation, Chevy Chase, the National Land Poo movies, love it. Die Hard is a Christmas movie. You will hear this from me over and over this season. So get used to it, deal with it. But yeah, save me the neck. Oh my God, Aunt Bethany, she wrapped her cat. Thank you, Christina. Let's scroll down to the bottom here. All the birdies in the nest. Can I just ask my US? Oh, okay, that's a good question. Can I ask my US friends? Do you all get together as a family for both Thanksgiving and Christmas? Well, I don't know if you guys answered Carol at all, but I can tell you that my experience, having grown up, you're welcome, Sharon, hang in there. I'm gonna do a cousin Eddie cosplay. Ah, shoot is full. One of my favorite movies of all time. The Wrapped Cat, the Exploding Christmas Tree, the Squirrel, I can go on and on. Anyway, Carol, I think, yeah, it is common in the US for Thanksgiving and Christmas and in some families' New Year's to be big gathering times. Coming from a big Italian-American family, I can tell you, and we're gonna wrap up in a minute or two, that Thanksgiving was huge, Christmas Eve was huge, Christmas Day, which pretty much just ran right into Christmas Eve, because it wouldn't be over until the wee hours of the morning, was huge. New Year's Eve was huge. I did not grow up with New Year's Eve being a going out to bars, dancing, partying. It was a family thing. And Christmas Day, New Year's Day was also huge. So it was nothing but one giant family gathering after another for a span of six weeks, just nothing but food and loud, just everybody's loud, that's just my family. And yeah, that's the way it was. So I don't know. I don't know what everybody's experience is, but yes, it's quite common for both of those things to be family gathering holidays. So let's see here. I'm the weirdest person in my family. Where are you, wave that weird flag though, Kathleen. We like you, we like you. Let's see here. I'm gonna scroll down to the bottom here because I'm kind of running out of time. Okay, this is good too. Let's throw this up here. This is the flip side of this. Thank you, B, you're always so valuable here. This is the flip side. So I've been talking a lot about being together with family and forced to be together with family and all that stuff. But for some people, it's the opposite. If you don't have people to be with or for some reason you're not involved with your family anymore, that can be stressful too. So thank you for bringing that up. That's the flip side of this. That is not any easier. I know people with crazy families that are making them months probably would love it if they didn't have anybody to be with but the grass is always green or kind of thing. So that's true. If you're struggling because you're alone, that's just as much a struggle as anything else. I just saw the word bloomers go by. I think I have not heard the word bloomers since my long dear departed grandma said it years and years ago. Thank you for that. Let's see here. Can you do an episode? All right. So I think we're good to go. We're at about 50 minutes, a little longer than I thought. I like the smaller crowd because it was easier to keep up with you guys, kind of get all the comments, ask as many questions as I can. What can I tell you? We'll keep talking about this as it goes if you want to bring it up in discussion in the Facebook group, whatever. Totally fine. Holidays can be stressful. It could be fun, but could also be super stressful for a variety of reasons. Just do the best you can to get through this. It's okay. Try to take the lessons you can take. Remember that everything is transitory, including Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. Be nice to yourself. Do not immediately declare failure and square one and you're the worst and we'll never recover. That is not fair and not required. You're not being nice to yourself when you do that. And just do the best you can. I appreciate you guys coming by. What do I want to remind you of? I have nothing to remind you of. Nothing. I think it's all good. We'll just do the best you can this week. We'll talk again next week. I don't know we're going to talk about next Monday, but we'll be here. So that's it. Thanks for coming by. Next week. Happy Thanksgiving for those of you.