 So, good morning, ladies and gentlemen, if you could just take your seats. My name is Lionel Barber, I'm the editor of the Financial Times. I'm here to chair this discussion. We have four distinguished political leaders from Europe who will be talking about resilient dynamism in Europe, European economy and Eurozone. I'm going to start with Prime Minister Mario Monti. And if you look at this panel, we have a real rich tapestry. We have big countries, we have smaller countries, I did not say small. We have debtor countries and we have creditor countries. We have countries in the Eurozone and outside the Eurozone. So they're all going to offer their own distinct national perspective in a European dimension. So Prime Minister Monti, I think it was the Financial Times that a year ago said that two people needed to save Europe and the Eurozone. They both were called Mario. Do tell us, last year we felt as though Europe and the Eurozone was on the edge. This year some conferences come back, but the big story is where's the growth going to come from. So it would be interesting to hear your perspective on how you see what you've accomplished over the last year as Prime Minister and what you see in the year ahead, including those elections. Yes, there are elections I understand in at least two large European countries this year. Well, what are we doing to achieve growth? I think each of us has to do things domestically and concerning Italy what we have been doing in spite or maybe helped by the pressures of financial emergency has been to begin injecting more competition and openness in the markets. This is something that is totally in line with the EU inspiration of a social market economy and we did that by, first of all, securing the sustainability of public finances in the long term, including a tough pension reform and also looking at the factors for growth. Infrastructures, long delayed in Italy. We have simplified the process of building infrastructures and injected an acceleration of those. Then the functioning of the markets and we have introduced more competition. For example, in the liberal professions who like to call themselves liberal but need many pushes to become liberal and in the separation between gas production and gas distribution to give you another example or in the shopping hours and the commerce sector. Also a lot of simplification concerning public administration and bureaucracy. Of course, this needs to be continued and one issue about the Italian elections in which I will not go unless requested here today is which political configuration is more in line with the need to sustain these structural forms. But I believe that no individual country in Europe, not even the largest ones, can really keep a momentum for growth or resume a momentum for growth unless the EU policies are more oriented towards growth and much of the time and energy in this year of Italian government has been devoted precisely to that and we have been among the pushing factors at the table of the European Council concerning the adoption of a pact for growth and also with the daily insistence on the single market being taken more seriously. We all know that Europe is based on the single market but we also know as Prime Minister Cameron I heard just say that there isn't really a single market for energy, for many of the services, for the digital services in Europe and finally we insist with some success in the recent European Councils to have a more forward looking understanding in Europe of the role of good public investment, particular for the interconnections for the infrastructure investment and this is something that we should also take into account in our view when we move in a couple of weeks to I hope the final negotiations on the EU seven year budget. We all have an interest in saving, in containing public spending at the national and the EU level. Italy is the third largest net contributor. We certainly have an interest in that but I think it's against common sense, economics and history not to see the potential for economies of scale of a EU budget slightly less restrained than we are forced and willing to restrain our national budgets. Thank you Prime Minister. Prime Minister Kenny, Ireland has been through the equivalent of a hurricane since the onset of the global financial crisis and yet in the last 12 months Ireland has come back to the capital markets. Can you tell us a little bit more about the structural economic reforms that you've been taking in Ireland and particularly perhaps to repair the banking system which after all is the sine qua non for resumption of growth? Yes, well it's been a hurricane. Two years ago when the administration or government I lead was elected, we'd actually lost 250,000 jobs in the private sector in the three years prior to that, our reputation was in shreds around the world, our banks were dysfunctional, it couldn't approach any market and there was a complete sense of hopelessness and despair and disillusionment. Now government was elected with a very clear mandate to sort this out, to deal with our public financial problems, to make the changes in the structures in Ireland that would lead us to being able to prove that when you have a strategy and a plan and that you follow it, you'll see results and two years on interest rates are down from 14% to 4%, our banks have been recapitalized, restructured, have been back in the markets without a state guarantee as tentative signs of being able to exit this program in 2013. We've over a thousand multinationals still driving exports in double digit figures, but our people have had to take really serious challenges because government made really serious decisions and it's an example for Europe and for anywhere else that if a government actually works with its people and understanding the patience of people and putting up with these changes that in the greater picture of things results will flow. Now we expect to exit our program in 2013, but we cannot do it without the cooperation of what's been committed to from our European colleagues and we hope to do that in 2013 as an example of what a success can be for a smaller country as you say as part of the bigger European Union issue. And I would like to say that it's important in terms of international reputation for contributor countries to be able to understand that their money here is not wasted, that there's an example of a country having measured up now to the seven analysis by the triker and having exceeded all of those targets, that the finishing part of that particular difficulty is the promissory notes issue and the following through on the decision of the 29th of June to break the link between sovereign debt and bank debt moving on to the supervisory mechanism and banking union because for a smaller country as you say, the mechanisms and the tools that are available now were not available when the crash hit Ireland and we were required to borrow 64 billion or 40% of our GDP to pay for banks and private creditors to banks in a situation which has been a crushing burden on the people. So their patience has been long and they've been waiting and markets have actually factored in a conclusion to this situation for Ireland. So we hope that that can be so. Now I would like to say that as in the middle of all that, Lionel, in the middle of all that, we were required by our constitution to have a referendum of the people on the fiscal stability treaty and Ireland voted 60, 40 in favour of the euro and in favour of maintaining our central contact with Europe and the eurozone because that's where we see our future. And that's why in this presidency we want to run this effectively in the interests of all the countries as an honest broker for Europe and that's why I'd like to see the issues of trade, the digital single market, Japan, Singapore, Canada, the opening of negotiations with the United States following the high level report. I think these are real opportunities. Politics for all of us here who are leaders is essentially about people. We've got 26 million people unemployed in the European Union. There are millions of young people who do not see their careers or their opportunities being rewarded by the decisions made by politicians. And that's a central issue that people have to see leaders follow through on the decisions that are made. And that's an issue always with Europe. When you make decisions at the European Council, see that they're followed through in the interests of all the citizens. So I hope that we can conclude an MFF for the seven years. I hope that during this presidency we can then go to the parliament and discuss that with them because they're required from Lisbon to give their consent and authorization and then move to CEP reform and the 70 legislative files that are necessary to be put through. We have that future. We must follow through on the decisions and make them happen. That's what politics is about. Thank you very much for that. Just one clarification. You rightly said it's an incredible result to get 60-40 in favour of the fiscal stability pact given what Ireland's gone through. So you clearly know how to win a referendum. Would you like to give Mr Cameron some advice on that? They put it this way. We've had referendums over the last 40 years. We've been married to Europe for 40 years now and are very proud of that fact. We've had all those referendums, Lisbon, Police, Amsterdam, Maastricht. People in our country understand the difference between the council and the commission and the parliament. They understand structural funds, cohesion funds, social funds, the CEP all of these things. We have made our decision linked clearly to the future of the eurozone and Europe. But we're also the closest partner to Britain. We have strategic partnerships signed with Britain. They're our biggest trading partner. Obviously there's a great contact for a very long time there. I don't speak for the British government here, but it is true to say that Britain were a driving force for the single market, that the European Union will continue to be much stronger because Britain can remain a part of that. But I would argue that many of the issues that arise for politicians, sort of from a bureaucracy point of view or from an administration point of view, these are things that you can change from inside. That's why I would like to see the digital market become truly single with that opportunity and we can do that collectively with the energy of the Union. So I don't speak obviously for the British government, but whatever happens, I would like to see that Britain would remain central to the European Union and for its future. It's very important in a global sense where most of the big opportunities will arise outside the European Union in the next 20 years. Thank you very much. Prime Minister Toying Schmidt, it would be very interesting, I think, for this audience to hear about your government's reform program. You obviously run a minority government, so that presents challenges. It's also a coalition government. We're just getting used to that in the UK. But above all, I'm interested in the degree to which you have a margin of manoeuvre as a smaller country within this big block. Just to speak, thank you. Well, first of all, I think this whole crisis that we have been through, and we're not through it yet, there are still an enormous amount of people suffering in this crisis. Everyone has spoken about the young people who are unemployed and unable to make a living, so we're not through the crisis yet. But it has been a wake-up call for all of us, and this wake-up call should be used in a good way so that the last years we have been through will not be lost but will be a useful way of taking us through to the other side. And this is what we've been learning at the European level that we need to reform in order to maintain the Europe that we want. We woke up when we had the crisis, realizing that we lost our competitive edge, that our welfare state was too unmanageable, that we had lost what we thought was so good about Europe. And what we need to do in the coming years is to restore all that. We need to change, and we need to change in a structural way to maintain what we like so much about Europe, and at the same time keeping very clear in our heads what makes Europe special. What makes Europe special is that we have a social market economy, that we have focused on environment, climate issues, and we also try to make a good business out of that, and of course our democracy, our human rights, our equality, and all the other things that make Europe special. And what we need to do the coming years is to change, but still keeping what we feel is our core values. This is exactly the same as I have tried to do back home as Prime Minister in Denmark. We have done three things. First of all, we have kept an extremely tight budget. We have adopted a budget legislation. We can no longer exceed our budget from year to year. We are running a very tight budget, and believe me, it's not easy to run a tight budget, but it's necessary. All this is meant we have a very low interest rate in Denmark. We have become a safe haven in these difficult times, so a tight budget is extremely important. The second thing we have done is to be on a reform frenzy. We have reformed so much the last year that I don't think it has any comparison in our history. We have reformed the tax system, early retirement. We are now reforming the benefit system. We are trying to reform the schooling system, so we have been on a big, and this is not all, we have been on a big reform frenzy over the last year because this is necessary in order to preserve the well-developed welfare state that we want to have in my country. And the third thing, and I think this is very important for the individual member states, but for Europe as a whole as well, we have tried to bring balance into our budget, but at the same time having a focus on the groups in our society who are most vulnerable. What does that mean? That means that every year when we have made the budget we have made sure that the most vulnerable citizens be it children in a vulnerable position, be it the poorest pensioners have got something out of our budget. So we have tried to preserve equality, which is also part of not only Danish values but European values as such. So the three things, tight budget control, reforms, also quite harsh reforms, some will think, and also being focused on getting all over to the other side and preserving what we feel is so important for us, equality. This is part of what we need to do at the European level as well, and I think we have so much to offer in the European Union. So whilst we go through the change we need to go through and we need to stay awake now after this wake-up call, we also need to focus what is our core values, what is the great thing about Europe and preserve that while we are changing. This is true for Europe and it's true for the individual countries in Europe. That's a very powerful statement of the reform programme. Just to clarify, do you think though you'd be better of being able to do even more in that Eurozone club or do you think you're better outside? Well, we have always... I've always been in favour of Denmark joining the Euro and I still am. And the interesting thing about the development in Europe over the last two years is that we have had different choices. We had to have a choice between splitting up or staying solidaried with each other. We chose the solidarity path, which is a very good thing. Within that path, we also had the choice between should the Euro countries be stronger together and exclude the non-Euro countries or should we try to meet and bridge the divide between non-Euro and Euro countries. Again, we chose the bridge. And one thing I'm extremely happy about is that every time we have taken a decision about strengthening the Euro, be it the fiscal compact, be it the lending mechanisms, all these things, the Euro countries have chosen a policy of the open door, a policy where it's always Euro plus, which means that countries like my own, Denmark and other countries, Sweden, Poland, some of the Baltic countries, we always know that even though we have two different paces and of course we have two different paces, there's an open door for non-Euro countries to join in those decisions. Examples, the fiscal compact was open to non-Euro countries, which meant that I think Denmark was the first to join the fiscal compact, even though we are non-Euro country. Now we're discussing a banking union. The discussion has the starting point that it's a Euro plus initiative, which means that we will have a vivid debate in my country whether we will join this banking union, but the point is it's open to non-Euro country. That has been some of the most important decisions we have taken the last two years, that we have not split, we have stuck together and there's always a Euro plus way of seeing this, whichever initiative that has been taken. Good. Thank you very much. Prime Minister Rutte, you've just been through elections. You did better than expected your party. You also represent a creditor country. My question is two-fold. One, tell us a little bit about the Dutch reform program, what it's seeking to accomplish. And second, whether you agree that whereas in 2012 there was a question mark about whether the club would lose some members or a member, in fact now that's a settled question and that all countries agreed, including a particularly large one, that the club will remain intact. Well, let me start with answering your second question by uploading my colleagues from Italy and Ireland. They decided in a very difficult phase to take the helm in their countries. They are both now Prime Ministers in the most difficult of circumstances and I think this is fantastic and both Mario and I have done a lot of good stuff now in their countries to implement reforms, get the fiscal discipline which is necessary, get the public finances in order and this is to answer your second question. I believe our aim should be to have to hold your zone intact and to keep all the countries as members of the eurozone. At the same time you can never predict whether at one stage a country would want to leave the eurozone and I think that should be possible but the policy my government has and I think all of the group of 17 has at the moment is to keep the eurozone intact. Then to move to the Netherlands, we are running the tide ship. Ella is mentioning in terms of the public finances. We have to tighten the budget. We are doing this. At the same time we are putting in place the necessary reforms in terms of the labour market, social security, pensions. But we also want to focus on growth. We need to get the economic engine going and therefore we have brought together in the best Dutch traditions all the major players. The universities, the knowledge institutions, secondly the government, obviously the private sector which is here of paramount importance and the non-governmental organisations. At every level we are working together to get the growth engine going again in the Netherlands and this has led to focusing on the main sectors in our economy which we believe will bring us exceptional growth in the future like water management, like the agricultural sector. We are the second largest exporter of agricultural products in the world. But also on other issues like ICT and our financial sector which is considerably big compared to the overall GDP of the Netherlands. So we focus very much on our innovation money, our research money, our education efforts on these main sectors of the economy. And then to Mario's point, he has written this fantastic report on the internal market. If we would implement everything we have previously agreed in terms of the internal market we could add 4% extra of GDP over the next ten years. If we would finally be able to close a foreign trade agreement with Japan, with the United States we could add another 2% of GDP over the next ten years. These are enormous figures and if somebody asks me how to explain the impact of being a member of the European Union it is first and foremost being a member of the common market and the fact that it brings its jobs and prosperity. And sometimes I can be extremely frustrated as I know most of my colleagues are that the debates in the Eurozone group in the Eurozone heads of state and government meetings in the meetings of the European Council of the 27 are so much focused on all the troubles we have and we could spend more time now and move to spend more time on these issues of getting growth going and therefore we need countries like Denmark, Sweden, United Kingdom. David has announced his famous referendum yesterday. We need these countries to stay not only in the European Union but to be very active because Denmark, Sweden, United Kingdom, the countries in the Baltics and some of the other Eastern European countries are very much focused on bolstering economic prosperity and that is a different type of debate from what we are having at this moment within the Eurozone. So I am always trying to liaise as much as possible with the non Eurozone countries and obviously would be great if more of them would join but if not at least that they are a full part of what we are doing together because we need that inspiration. And just picking up on your point about free trade areas what odds do you think there are 7 out of 10, 8 out of 10 about concluding a transatlantic free trade area in 2013-14? I think the chances are positive. I think it is possible to come to an agreement now that Obama has been reelected. I feel personally speaking to the members of the US administration and to Barack Obama himself that they understand yes they are focusing on Asia but to be effective in this relationship between the United States and Asia they have to work very well together with Europe because the Europe and the US is a very strong partnership and it is crazy that we are discussing a trade agreement with the US and this transatlantic thing we should have this years ago. Share that view before I open it up to the floor for discussion and questions. Thank you Prime Minister Monti. Do you also believe that it is possible finally to secure an agreement between the 27 and the United States on a transatlantic free trade area? I think it is crucial. I think it is possible. I think it will require important adjustments in policies on both sides of the Atlantic but I think it will eventually be done in the time span that you outline. That would be one of the adjustments needed but even with agriculture yes. I am making an observation arising from what Mark said here. I actually feel that there is a new sense of realism about Europe, within Europe because two years ago the discussion was the breakup of the Euro, exit from the Eurozone all of these difficulties and all of the cynics who knew all the answers said you would never have any FSM you would never have any FSF you would never have any permanent bailout mechanism that you would never get to a point where you would make a decision to break the link between sovereign and bank debt and for the first time actually the Eurogroup and the Ministers for Finance were able to come in on time with a recommendation for the single supervisory mechanism endorsed by the European Council and now moving on to the discussions about the mechanics of that. As the honest broker, as the presidency when we didn't support the financial transaction tax because of the implications for London and Dublin being so close and yet at the first meeting of the Eurogroup it was the first item on the agenda dealt within 15 minutes without a vote so that countries that supported this could get on with that mechanism. Now I think that what we need now during this current time is the mandate to start the negotiations for free trade between EU and the US that will not be concluded this year and probably not next year but I think it will be a big signal a big signal that the greatest trading block on earth which is the European Union and the United States at the start of a new administration will be able to set out the roadmap by how this can happen. I believe the US is going to recover I believe they will deal with a fiscal cliff I'm concerned about Europe's lack of momentum in terms of having our own energy grid because the US will now become an exporter of energy with the change that have happened there which means that costs are rising in Europe in terms of major infrastructure from an energy perspective. We need much more focus ourselves at the end of the day it's always about jobs jobs and jobs and that means injecting growth into the European economies and making political decisions that will result in jobs being created for millions of young people across this Union and give them hope and inspiration and motivation that politics actually does work I believe in that I think if we get this mandate to start these discussions Europe will certainly respond very positively and share Mario's and Helen's and Mark's view on this. Well there's no doubt that one of the things we should be doing that worked for that when we had the presidency is to pick the low-hanging fruits and they are out there we should complete the single market the digital single market we should finalize these trade agreements we are very hopeful that you can also bring us a few step ahead in this context this is what we should be doing and one of the directors we were extremely eager to finalize when we had the presidency and the efficiency directive why is that important that is important because energy efficiency means that we can be cutting edge in terms of using our energy much better and more efficient if we can be cutting edge in Europe in terms of this we can also make a good business out of that so I think we need to focus on the low-hanging fruits which is completing the single market trade agreements but also realizing where are we front runners in Europe and why should that not become a burden for us but rather the opposite so we use it as something that sets us apart and gives us a competitive advantage in the global competitiveness so this is what we should be focusing on and this is a very practical approach we have four heads in states of government sitting here it's enormous Mark was quoting the figures but the perspective for getting jobs and growth in Europe is enormous and that's why we need to move on these very practical issues right now Just one last question for Prime Minister Monti because this is a very going to be a very important issue in the campaign and it is an issue throughout Europe which is this question of unemployment if there were any things you are doing or you would do if you continued in power to tackle this crisis in unemployment in Italy there are other countries I was in Spain just two weeks ago talking to the Prime Minister Rahoy on this what would you single out to offer some hope to those young people who don't have jobs Two things one is specific measures for youth and that even this outgoing government for all its financial stringency was able to begin awarding some tax relief for companies hiring youth but much more can be done in a five years perspective and with a now much more solid public finance situation secondly the overall labour market reform there we did introduce a labour market reform to inject more flexibility in the labour market that did not go far enough why did it not go far enough because one of the unions was considerably resisting to change and we need to change that culture that is why and by the way they although they were invited to join like all the others they also resisted a recent agreement on productivity towards more decentralization in labour negotiations so the idea that I would promote should I be in a position to do so is definitely to unite those reformist pro reform forces that have been dispersed across the political spectrum so that there is more energy behind the reforms including in the labour market just like at the other end of the political spectrum in Italy there has been one party the right-wing party that has resisted deeper reforms in the area of law of anti-corruption for example of conflict of interest we have done something but we need again by uniting these pro reform forces to do more all this will bring new life to the Italian economy and the first ones to benefit will be the youth and the unemployed youth thank you very much now we're going to take questions from the floor I think I'm going to because we're going to take two so there's a gentleman I can't see whether it's a lady or a gentleman definitely a gentleman not a statement a question the UK prime minister talked about repatriating powers from Brussels back to the UK as a success and are there any powers that the prime ministers on the panel would like to repatriate from Brussels to their own countries ok repatriation the big question and then there's a gentleman there Davide Serra the intra-generational taxation the governments over the last few years have put on the new generation by basically running deficit and now having new guys with no jobs is there a way to have a social contract take away something that was given to the old that was not sustainable in order to kick start employment in the youth before it becomes a social tension thank you very much for that I think we'll quickly take repatriation if you don't mind because if we had all four we won't get through questions so perhaps Prime Minister Rutta and Prime Minister Kenny could take the repatriation question and then we'll go for intra-generational from Prime Minister Monty Prime Minister Torring Schmidt so Prime Minister Kenny do you want to talk about repatriation and what are the possibilities and would you like to repatriate some powers Prime Minister Cameron made his speech, made his contribution here about what he would like to see I think there's a measure here of what it is that Europe wants to do in the time ahead now there is no opportunity now for reopening negotiations about treaty changes my priority and I think the priority of Europe now should be to deal with the consequences of our current crisis just because there is no talk now of the euro failing our countries leaving the euro doesn't mean that there should be any complacency the opposite actually is the effect that Europe should now drive on with making its decisions about improving the issues that we've spoken about here with impact on employment it may well be that when we go down the road of the single supervisory mechanism banking union greater integration in terms of financial management and so on there will be consideration for a future treaty change that's probably after the next parliament and the next commission so I feel that Europe's new priority of understanding that it's lagged behind and that it can do so much better can mean that the collective energy can deal with many of the obstacles that are there to trade and job creation whoever sits on this platform in 10 years time will live in a very different world the internet, genetics, biotech nanotechnology, nanomedicine robotics are changing the world as we sit here and it is the countries that can deal with riding those waves before they actually happen that are going to make the big impact and I think Europe's research, innovation education facilities will allow us to do that I'm not concerned now about the future I'm much more concerned about leading on from where we find ourselves to a brighter and more prosperous future we can talk about all of these issues in the context of future treaty change if and when that arises you might say actually I'm quite all right Jack because the last thing we want is rewriting treaties or changing for example our tax is 12.5% corporate tax rate, it's 11.9% it's transparent across the entire spectrum I know that the tax regime in Europe in general may lead companies to make decisions about their tax rates but Ireland's not a tax a haven for unorthodox practice in respect of tax, it's very clear it's very transparent and it applies right across the board the tax regime generally that may be used by companies but our tax regime is a national competence and it's not changing Yeah, got you Precisely because Europe is changing and the world is changing we need to have this debate on subsidiarity which tasks should be dealt with at the European level and which tasks should be dealt with at the national level with 27 and this is a permanent debate and for example issues personally I would like to have an argument with my colleagues on why in the area of occupational health and safety there is so much which has been dealt with at the European level, it's a bit like in terms of rules and legislations it's a bit like Hotel California you can check out but you can never leave you can never repatriate tasks to the national level I do not agree when somebody would ask for specific opt-outs for just one country I think that is not good I think the end of the debate should be a settlement at the level of the 27 and it could be tasked from the national level to the European level from the European level back to the national level I also very much agreed with David's comments yesterday in terms of making the European union more efficient and to make it more relevant you should also look at your running costs where he spoke about competitiveness getting the engine going getting more jobs in Europe and doing much more in those areas and at the end of the day I think it is vital for us as a European union and for the United Kingdom to stay part of the European Union the United Kingdom outside the European Union would be an island somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean between the United States and Europe it would not be connected with any of these two so I think it is vital for all of us that they stay in fine yes still on repatriation just a word if I may I think it is very important to have a pragmatic attitude here through the history of European integration some subject matters may have to go up in terms of decision making centralizations other can come down in one area on which I worked I think it is very important to look at the international competition policy some years ago a big reform was introduced whereby many competences previously dealt with only by Brussels have been given to the national competition authorities whereas full competence to deal with macro competition cases transatlantic cases etc on future but without much ideology if possible on future generations and taxation in a broad sense I think two things are key one sustainability of pension systems in order not to penalize future generations and secondly fiscal discipline in order again not to penalize future generations to make the case in Italy that much of the difficulties for Italian young people to find a job now is due to the fiscal indiscipline of 20 or 30 years ago before there were European constraints that brought the politician of that time to disregard the future of Italians from this point of view I would only see one movement because we practice a pretty rough fiscal discipline we should allow for a wider accumulation of productive capital in the future like infrastructures otherwise we treat consumption and investment in the same way but one thing is current expenditure by the state another thing is building up an appropriate infrastructure for the future of our children Prime Minister taking away from the old in order to give to the young that's a tricky electoral test well it's necessary for the young that we have sustainable economies I mean if we just keep borrowing we are basically stealing from future generations so it's very clear that we have to have sustainable welfare systems in all our welfare systems I wanted to return to this discussion that the British Prime Minister has started today so clearly I mean there has been a lot of reaction to that and I want to say two things first of all is a perfectly legitimate discussion that is being raised I think this is a discussion that's been going on in the UK for years and it's a perfectly legitimate discussion we might not in Denmark agree on the path and we have chosen a different path but it's a legitimate discussion second of all I think there is questions to be asked of course in terms of how we run Europe and we should keep asking those questions part of the wake-up call that I was referring to before is that every morning we need to wake up and ask are we spending public money in the right way are we spending this corner or this euro in the right way and that goes for member states where we are turning every corner to actually spend it the right way and of course we should go in Europe and this is a discussion we have right now when we're discussing the budget we'll all meet very soon and looking forward to discuss our budget and part of that discussion is that we have to show very clear resolve in terms of spending our money in the best way possible and this is something we should all be interested in if we're doing it at the member state level of course we should be doing that at the European level as well. Thank you very much now you know as editor of the Financial Times I do care about precision so just to ask each one of you do you believe that the changes which are going to take place and which will be agreed to secure the eurozone those changes will require a treaty change? No No I believe the treaty change in the future Thank you very much We've shown that we can do so much without treaty changes the last two years have shown us that so no I don't think so Not an immediate future but I do believe that in the longer term we'll need to move to changes which will require treaty changes on the exact type of membership countries have with the eurozone so in the medium term I believe a treaty change is unavoidable and not treaty changes Not in the immediate I think now a treaty change will trigger referenda and all this so in the immediate future we should not talk or discuss treaty changes but I do believe that to deal with some of the fundamental design flaws in the eurozone we in the medium term need a treaty change So ladies and gentlemen that's two nos and one or two the billion euro question is how does Mr Cameron hold a referendum on an agreement where there hasn't been a change in the treaty I just put that out there This was on the eurozone and you could still have in my view in terms of repatriation of powers treaty changes at the level of the 27 on the running of the European Union Right, do you believe that that will be the case? What exactly because it will be the case that the treaty changes needed not for the eurozone but more broadly for the relationship between the outs and the ends No but let me say one thing about David Cameron's speech one positive thing it is important that whenever the British people or any people for that matter are asked the question in a referendum about the EU that the question be the full question whether they wish to continue to be members of the EU or not This is also the only way that each of our countries can make a choice for its own without conditioning too much the others without hijacking the others so I believe that when the moment comes the UK people will say yes because put as it is that question if they say no they will get out of the single market which I believe they will not wish to do and at any rate it will be a clear cut question rather than hanging on and paralyzing others In respect of the eurozone in the context of greater integration and greater banking union and so on I do see the possibility of going further up the road let me say this in respect of the speech yesterday five years is in eternity in politics it's in eternity what you need now is clarity decisiveness and a horizon and the Europe given its current period of relative calmness now has an opportunity to move on here and make the decisions that we've spoken about to make the changes that will impact the economies of Europe and the job prospects for millions of people which is essentially what politics is about here and we need to have our own perspective inside the EU but also where we're going to stand in a global sense in the coming years giving the enormous populations of the Far East the need for food security changes arising from climate change water and so on but just to be clear with Prime Minister Monty that in the end the referendum question has to be in or out well that's a question for the British government absolutely I think it would be premature to have this discussion now we need to know what the Brits actually want in this discussion and we need to find out over the next next years well I agree with you and I think it is up to the British government to decide what the question exactly will be which it will put before the people and on basis of what outcome of what type of discussion they want so we have to see what happens I think we've chased that rabbit next question from the floor it must be one I can't see anybody gentlemen lady there yes it's Amy Kellogg from Fox again this is a question for Prime Minister Monty and for the T-Shuck the U.S. now needs to make some serious budget cuts in the coming months to avoid the fiscal cliff and both of you have just gone through the process of making budget cuts in your own countries and I'm wondering if you can share any lessons learned or tips for the United States as it starts to make its own budget cuts thank you right tips for the Congress I'm sure they're ready yes I would venture to say that Congress should study the case of Italy in the last year because essentially it was a cross-partisan effort a special strange coalition was put up of three parties making up 85% of parliament which in the past they talked with each other unless to exchange invectives and they were brought to make a cross-partisan an all-partisan agreement on a budget containment which brings to zero this year the budget deficit in structural terms so I always thought that the attempt made one or two years ago in the U.S. of a super committee was a loadable bipartisan effort which had less success than this strange attempt pursued in Italy and this to me simply means that in order for modern democracies to overcome difficult to take difficult decisions in these sectors probably we do need grand coalitions or broader than normally efforts. Thank you. Tisek has the last word on advice to the Congress Republicans and Democrats and maybe even something special for the White House. Well I propose to bring a bowl of shamrock to the President in March because we've had to make very painful decisions here reducing public pay reducing the size and cost of the public sector increasing pension ages changing the regulations governing wage setting mechanisms changing the structures in the areas like health and the way government does its business I think the first thing you need is a plan the strategy that's clear and that can be set out and you have an objective in mind our objective is to get our deficit below 3% by 2015 and we're headed on track for that we've now instituted a new negotiation with the trade unions to take a further billion in current spending and pay overtime allowances all of these premium payments agency workers and so on over the next three years this is another painful challenge but the objective and the strategy is clear now the Congress and the US government operate differently than governments here but I think it's very important the first thing that should be laid out is what do you want what is the strategy within that time to achieve that there's a constant explanation to people as to how you intend to get there and what that's actually going to bring about which is we're not there yet obviously in a fragile economy we need the conclusion of European support but in that sense the United States is such a huge country with such enormous internal potential I believe that if Republicans and Democrats under the return administration of President Obama I believe they will deal with this and I think the United States with respect to them also need to look at their global position because obviously they have an impact on the world economies and therefore on ours good well thank you very much I'm sorry we're going to have to draw this to a close I was hoping that the Irish Prime Minister would say send that message saying if you only could get your act together and cure these problems it would be so much better for the Europe and the world but you're far too much of a diplomat to say that I expect they will he does expect they will I'm sorry we can't take more questions it's been a fascinating session please join me in thanking the Prime Ministers