 Welcome to Toffy TV. I am joined by Sarah from Mint Culture, who was part of our Deadline Day live extravaganza. I bet you didn't know what I ate you when you came in here on Deadline Day. I'm still getting over it. Good cup of coffee though. It was great, yeah. Obviously since last week because that was like a bit of an angry day. I mean if you'd stayed on like you would have seen how angry it got and hear it. It got to the point where we were doing live content of the best ever in bold 11. That idea, that's where it peaked. Slow. Maybe for the channel that's where it peaked. Who knows? We obviously got your own dice and we didn't get any plays. We've had a win but we had the protest on Saturday and that's what we wanted to talk about. The protest march went really well. I thought a lot of people saying that you couldn't back your team and have a march at the same time, which I think Saturday proved it. But the big thing now is where do we go from here? We've obviously got a new manager. We've all got a little bit of a renewed optimism about Everton maybe getting enough points this season to keep us all happy. But in terms of what's happening off the pitch, where do we go? I think the march on Saturday proved the dignified way that Evertonians are treating this. They also understand how important it is that it happens. How it escalates now, we were just talking about it. I'm not sure. I think it's going to be fan driven and it has to be. I think we came when the club needed us last year and this is a different thing for equally important reason. How it grows now, I think it's going to be very organic again. But I think the dignity that the fans show probably more in that 30 minutes of that march than the Everton board have shown. That contempt that they've thrown at the fan base. I think it's just now being clever and tactical and keeping the pressure on. It's really important that we don't forget that, that a few wins, the derby win maybe. We've got to keep that separate. We know that the two things can go hand in hand, the protest and then the game. As long as we can keep the two things separate mentally. But certainly the team know that we are 100% behind them for sure. That's an interesting thing. That's what you said about mentally because I think what can happen or maybe what other people think is that you get into a position where people hope, think they want to see the team lose. Or they think people will protest and want to see the team lose. Because it gives them more ammunition to throw at the board or the owner. That's definitely not the feeling I'm getting from being down there on Saturday and just being around Everton. It's a strange thing to think that people want to see their team lose. Everton have got enough problems. We don't need more. I say to the city, I wish we got beaten by Arsenal on Saturday because that would have heightened the tension and the mood and put more pressure on the board. I actually thought Saturday was almost a perfect day. It wouldn't be more perfect if Liverpool took a point off waltz. But I felt like it was a perfect day. The fans were brilliant. That was all shown on live TV. He spoke to Alan Stubbs during that happen. He put a couple of things right that maybe had been put out there as wrong. We go on and win. The atmosphere was absolutely brilliant. Everyone came away with a little bit of renewed hope. Obviously the board made it there as well. For me that encapsulates what I want from Everton fans at the moment. I think it's proving that point that people have pushed for change maybe for a long time. It's not that they want to see the club fall over. They don't want it to trip up. It's not about that at all. It's the long term vision. I think it's that rebuild and knowing that it's really seven years that we've lost essentially haven't we? We've thrown that opportunity away potentially. But I think one thing that I took from Saturday, I spoke to some former player that was actually there. They were saying that it was just sadness. That they wanted to be there. It was the right thing to do. But there was such sadness in having to do it. I think it's really just focusing on everyone pushing together in the same direction. It must be difficult if you are an ex-player. Obviously Grameshark part of the board. This is why Pearson I think he should resign. He should be the first one to resign to get that little bit of dignity back. That he can go the match by the way. I think if he did that and he could go the match. Simple as that. He doesn't have to go and speak out against the board. No one's asking him to be anything else than what he is. Which is a former player that people love. That's why I've done quite understanding. I think if he did that. I think that might open the door to again more ex-players. Not coming out and speaking by the way. Just feeling comfortable being there. Cos I think at the moment there's a lot of ex-players who for one reason or another aren't speaking up. But also feel really uncomfortable about the whole situation. And they thought that leads them to not being there. And again that doesn't fill me with any kind of joy at all. I want whoever the ex-player is to be there. I don't want them to feel uncomfortable being at the game. Cos they haven't spoken out. There's a lot of legitimate reasons why ex-players wouldn't speak out about this situation. First and foremost their livelihoods as players. A lot of these players wouldn't have made a lot of money during their careers to last in the rest of their lives. I can understand that. And I just think at the moment with game sharp being that link between ex-players and the board. That's why I want them to step down. I genuinely feel like if he did that. People might go oh he's on our side. They just go well that's sort that little issue out. Some saving grace. I feel like he's sort of essentially raised himself from some people's minds. Sadly yeah. And it is really sad. I mean I didn't experience that derby goal. You know but it's the one thing that you think of instantly isn't it when you think of sharp. And it is sad. I mean yeah I do think. I do question sometimes if players are being quiet. Like if they did have the clubs heart within them. If they wanted better for the club. And they know the problems and they know the issues. And it's a huge elephant in the room. Why aren't they speaking out? You do have to at this point now probably question that. I know it's financial for some. But at the same time you know where's your credibility? Where's your heartline? I think credit to Stubbs. I think he's being a massive catalyst in this. And he's got it into the mainstream. And we do have to thank him for that. Yeah and I think there's him and maybe there's Michael Ball. Stuck his head up as well. And they are maybe players that Evertonians for the start. So that's the most important thing. Maybe their livelihoods don't depend on these other people who are at the club. Or upsetting people at the club. Because we all know that that's an industry in its own. But it's sad. I find it really sad. There's something really poignant about seeing the seats empty. I just think. I mean it's never happened has it? It's so sad and symbolic that the new manager comes in. And it's just empty. And even people come into investment people. But is that something you think has to continue for the rest of the season? What for them not to come in? I don't want them anywhere near me. That's what I'm saying. Someone was saying at one of the meetings that the FAB held. One of the guys said that for the atmosphere to change instantly we just need the chairman to step down. And you just think actually there's probably a lot in that. The whole inertia, this just cloud that seems to hang over us would lift instantly. It wouldn't create these massive changes instantly. But it would certainly make a lot of changes. And I think that's it. Funny enough I've seen someone tweeting yesterday. And it made me think about this. And it made me laugh as well. Someone tweeted saying imagine if Bill Kenwright had allowed the city owners to buy Evan. He said would he get all the blame now if we were in this financial thing. And it did make me laugh because I thought that's quite funny just in general. But then I thought that typifies though the whole situation. Bill Kenwright rightly or wrongly gets blamed for everything like literally everything. Now to some people they'll go yeah that's a disgrace. Everything is a stick to beat them. But on the flip side of that I look at that and go that could easily be sorted out in one statement. I stepped down for me and the Evan chairman. And then Evan fans rightly or wrongly would not have him to blame for anything going forward. He could remove himself from the situation but he won't remove himself from the situation because it is toy set. And he loves it. And I get that to a point. But how far does that go? And it's just like if you just give us that one thing or give the fans one thing. That would sort out both sides because then people on one side could go see. We told you it was never going to do with Bill Kenwright. And then on the flip side the other side obviously would go we finally stood down. We don't have that distraction. Because we often talk about the Newcastle situation. Their owners came in and they bought the club and they removed all of the negative elements. And what that meant was going to a match day Mike Ashley is not going to be there. You know like you've never gone anywhere and someone there you don't want to be there. An incident you feel uncomfortable. It doesn't matter if everyone around you is your mate or whatever. You're like don't really like him. And I feel like that's a bit like it will be like that with the board. Which we're just trying to enjoy ourselves, go to Matterport the team. And you four or five have decided to turn up. And why did you do it? Why are you upsetting the rest of us, the 37,000 rest of us? By just being here when you could have just stayed at home. And I think if Bill Kenwright or Grameshark just went you know why. I don't want to be part of this problem anymore. I want to be part of the solution or whatever. Then I'll not be. I think instantly fans ago we got one. Yeah I think the whole club needs exercising. They need to go home with the sage and just cleanse everything we talked about that. It does just feel like it's stuck with me when you said it feels like an end of an era. And it does feel like that rain is slowly just like you know breaking away. And for what reason you know nobody wants to wish anything bad on anybody. And nobody wants that. But you do have to question. You know we know why Farmershire was brought in. You know it was for Bill Kenwright. And you know it's quite evident now. And the club is making a very huge amount of money for a few people. It's got to change. Something's got to change because the club is essentially dying like you said. And it's really sad to watch. Yeah it's a situation that feels like it could sort it off very very quickly. If a handful of people just walked away from it. And let the club obviously with the stadium it's got lots of potential. And you've got this distraction now. Some people say it's a negative distraction what the fans are doing. And some people think it's a positive one. Whichever way you fall on it. The problem is when media and you know media TV whatever radio. They love to like hold themselves to this unbelievable standard. This is what I find from the thing. So like fans going on a protest is suddenly like what are this. Like one of the things I don't know you've been on sat here. And I don't mind saying this. It's like you're walking up and you're seeing people standing on the side. And you're like why aren't you part of this. What stops you from being part of this. You know 90% of them I think personally. Or maybe less listen again. Don't talk for everyone. But what if 50% of those people. Well like I absolutely agree with everything you say. What stops them people from joining it. I don't know. I did when we got to the corner by the Gladys Street. And I was clicking away taking some photos. And it was coming this way. You could tell it was quite clearly like a march. And really peaceful. And this guy just sort of like crept through from the church side. With big tray chips. And he cut right through everyone. And this guy did not notice. That it was on or it just wasn't bothered. And it is those moments. I mean like you say you can't dictate and tell people. But I know what you mean. But it's that demonisation of what they do. And that I find really frustrating. There is this culture within this country. I think we all fall apart of it at times. It's like everyone. No one's prepared to say sometimes uncomfortable. I mean there are some people who will say. And that's why the country is the way it is. There's not enough people who will go. I'll tell you a perfect example. When the club put the statements out. Or the non-statements about what had apparently happened to Denise Barrett back in there. For not one second did anyone in the national media go. Where's the evidence? And it was only till later till the story got out. And obviously it was on match of the day and stuff. That he and right after a few days went. Something's had nothing for you. You know on a podcast and listen. Not as many people would have listened or watched that podcast. Obviously you've watched them on match of the day where the story got out. And it's like afterwards he's gone. I need to apologise to you. But exactly. And that's the kind of country we live in. Where no one's prepared to go. Did this really happen honestly? The thing with that is as soon as I came through that statement. I think I was by the hot walk or something. And you know what? Obviously that's social comments. But the fact that it did until the headlock thing. At that point it did feel like it was like what? Why? You know? And I think that moment there was this wave just thought. Cos I was in here on the Monday and anyone who watched it. I was actually gone mad. And even that just saying that for me personally. You're risking a lot. I sat here ffuming about it and I was thinking. I'm actually risking a lot by saying this. By questioning the official story. But to me it was bollocks. And it was bollocks. And it will always be bollocks. But people fall on that trap of saying in this country. You can't say stuff because of the way we have gone. So a lot of it I massively agree with. But there is this whole culture. You can't say anything. So when you see a load of people. You've seen it now with the strikes. The way people are going on strike. To just try and get living wages. It's that thing of shoving a camera in front of someone going. What do you think about these people trying to stop you from getting to work? And it's not like what do you feel about people going on strike. Trying to have a nice living. It's impacted on you. What are you doing on it? We flipped the other way. And I think it's the same as being done with seeing people doing a peaceful protest. It's like look at these people protesting. They'll probably end up hating someone. Not the billionaires. I think it's like someone sprayed something on the wall. Which says something really bad. Your whole fan base is a disgrace. And it's like too much of that goes on now. And I don't know whether that puts people off from being a part of it. Maybe they want to and they're like no. Because I might get pulled into this. And I'll be seen as a person who protested. And therefore they're terrible. And it's the way... I thought on Saturday BT handled it really well. Actually because I typed it and I went back and watched it. And they handled it really really well. By not falling into that narrative. That the club wants people to hear that. These people are a disgrace. And they're a really small minority. And don't listen to them. And we won't be run out. And we're not coming to the game today. Because someone violently attacked one of us. Or we feel threatened. And it's like there's no evidence. There's no proof. You didn't even go to the police. But in this country now that's the story. No. Did that happen? Well I think parts of the media as well. Will probably feel a little bit disgruntled towards the club. They will now. And will feel like... I know there's definitely journalists who feel that the nos have been pulled out of place. So I think that the club have certainly like that's been their final nail in the coffin. But I think with them not showing up. It's almost like that. To me the insults is anyone that's over the last 100 nod years who's gone through those turnstiles. Anyone who's gone through that board. As a director, whatever. To me it was a massive finger to all of those people. And the insult to injury that's come since. It's just horrible. There's no turning. They can't go back from it. I don't know what they think they're going to do. The thing that annoys me is just the fact that they are dictating when they leave. And that to me is another insult. That they're choosing when they want to step down. Yeah. I mean there's not much anyone can do about that. But where do we go from here then? Cos obviously we had that at the game. Obviously it was after Sean Deish had come in. It was after the transfer window shut without any players. And even just going back to everything that's built up to it. Even Sean Deish mentioned in his press conference like I hope the fans are with us and powerful to decide. And made up again going back to Alan Stubbs. Alan Stubbs referenced that. He said who'd be telling him that the fans weren't with him. Who'd led them to believe that the fans weren't going to be with him. So that's again what made Saturday special. And I think afterwards when he done his press conference he was like great that wasn't it. We were all with us blah blah blah. So I think that's got to continue. But where do we go? How does the protest, where does it go from now to make sure that the message stays clear and it doesn't alienate people because the worst thing you could happen now I think is alienating those. Obviously there's people out there again. So there's people who don't have a clue. There's people who don't get any of this. I'll go back to the striking before. People out there don't actually understand that that makes a difference in life. Humans stand up for themselves is a good thing. They just want to keep the status quo because they think that certainly for fans that you can't do both. You can't back your team and also protest whether it's before or again. So how does this move on for the rest of the season? I think Saturday showed that that watershed moment even to the manager, the new manager, that it is possible and the support. It's never been questioned, has it really? You can never say it's been questioned. Some people will try and think that they're trying to do this to a certain narrative or agenda. But I think it's got to maintain a dignified approach and it's got to be classy. I think it's just keeping that pressure on. But in different ways, be creative. I think we've got to be creative in what we do and how we assert ourselves and not having splits. I think that's really key and making sure that, like you said before, the message is simple and it's hit as well every time. I mean one thing I will say about Saturday is that this might have gone under the radar a little bit but I always stayed in the garage seat a little bit later to do my video and there were still fans in there with the flags and singing but there wasn't that many of them. A guy approached me and he said like, where is everybody? And I said well, I'll be honest. I didn't really know there was a sitting today. Someone had mentioned it to me but I said I didn't. I knew there was going to be a march before the game but no one had really pushed a sitting and I said that's the problem with that is for Saturday. People got the twist of that and said, ah, see, you've won a game and no one's here. And I think Saturday what it simply was was the message hadn't got out. I mean I personally don't think sittings are a good way going forward because I think what happens with the sitting is is you're waiting for it to happen after the game so you're almost there. Don't get me wrong, the one after the Southampton game was justified and it really went well and it got out there. I don't think for me I personally wouldn't have them now because if you don't get the numbers then people can go ah, see, it's dropping off now. You've won a few games have yet? It's going away and I think it gives a false visual of what's going on and I'm just glad that on Saturday people didn't really pick up on it after the game and I think BT lingered on it too much or anyone else made a big deal. They dealt with the match before. So I think the message has got to be clear of what's happening. Everyone's got to be unified and the message has got to get out because that's the other side of it as well. Just taking a few things on social media and thinking that's the majority. I actually heard someone on a space site who was going to be thousands there on Saturday and it made me laugh because I was just like, there's not going to be thousands and even if there was 2,000 people listening to that space you're only really going to get a quarter of those people because that's just life. How many people do you think turned off for the march, for the protest? I don't know because I'm not very good at that thing. It felt heavy, didn't it? It felt like there was loads and I think again without naming names what I think is really important about all this is the same people carrying the banners are the same people who were part of creating the bus welcomes, same faces we know who they are, I'm not going to name them, I don't want to embarrass anyone or put anyone's name out there but they're the same people and what that says to me is that the same people who wanted to make gooders on last season a bear pit and welcomed the players off the bus are the same people who are fighting on this club. And I think that's massively important because again it's very easy to demonise people and I've heard a few things of maybe a few people trying to be demonised but it's the same people and these people have been on the fans forum and they've been on the fab and I know they're not the only ones there's a lot of people behind the scenes that keep these things going but I think that's a really important thing that people need to realise is that generally there's always the same people who just want better for everyone for football. Well I think that the thing that was key last year with the atmosphere with 1878 that the atmosphere, it's all relative so if the club is ran well if things are working it falls onto the pitch it's all relative and that was definitely a conversation I had last year and I think it speaks volumes that those people are involved and I think people are realising now that it's all interlinked. Yeah it's not like and that's what the reason I say that is it's not like we've got a good set of fans and a bad set of fans what we've got is we've got hardworking people who are prepared to go out there and give extra time and go to meetings whether they be fans forum meetings or fab meetings or 1878 meetings or whoever it is they're prepared to give their own time to make this football club better and yet even though we don't want them there the people who are paid to be there don't turn up because they give silly reasons for that and I think people have got to make that distinction and when I see people out there listen social media, social media and there's lots of nonsense and I've come across this in the last few weeks there's so many bots there's so many accounts that are clearly there's accounts out there trying to they're trying to disrupt they're trying to cause made between one person and another person it's all the old it's all the Brexit tactics essentially there's essentially what's got the country in this agency they're using the same tactics and it's important that people don't go oh those people were amazing it's the same people they just want they just want evidence to be better because actually these are the people who go home and away everywhere I mean there was people yesterday at Barrow at one o'clock in the afternoon watching evidence reserves playing Barrow in the Lancashire Lancashire Cup that's how that's commitment that's how mad our fan bases there was people who went to watch I think they went up to was it Grimsby or somewhere up that way to watch it on the 23s playing the Papa John's Trophy and the Forest Green Rovers lot as well that they've always booked about our fans are nuts they are nuts they want an excuse to go and watch evidence because they love it but the club should value the club should see the value and the worth of that and the fact that they are the fabric of the club and they don't but they see the value in it when they need it the welcome is shown by and in the video you've got the fans and you've got the smoke and the season tickets we are the good listening gang and you've got the smoke which you aren't allowed to use anymore they have no problem ripping off the only culture everything they've got as a club is the fan culture and that's and the same people have created the fan culture are the same people doing the march and that's what I find amazingly funny and it's such a paradox for that football club that the same people they were ringing up last year and getting on the pitch too to get coming me Frank Lampard and all that kind of thing are the same people now who are striving for better and meaning that they're having to pick up the phone and ring people for an hour and a half to try and make sure that everything's okay within the fan base and that's what I find hilarious and that's what we've gone back to before about saying about about taking away the negatives you just took a couple of people out the board and you wanted them all gone of course you sort of about negativity and that's where it comes right back again to the culture and the fabric of it that this is an essential key time because we are able to rebuild it now and take all of those elements and almost like override the board mentally and physically and show that it is about the fan base and that's what's really important especially as we go into the new ground exactly that culture and if ever someone's get it right if ever someone's get this right and what I mean by is sticking together staying classy and doing things the right way even though some people might see it the right way there is a power vacuum at the moment and I'm not saying as a fan base we can fill that power vacuum because these people still own the club and they still have high rank and positions in the club but by them not being there I think that's a we can fill that void the fans will fill that void they've always filled that void they're the distraction to what we can achieve and I think if ever someone's hand the list the right way and the media understand that because I think what you said before is really important by the way I think a lot of them got caught out by that story and are now like oh okay we'll shine that spotlight where we ain't gonna shine it now because you've made us look really really silly with some of your reporting or some of your statements if ever someone's get this right and as I said that means not chasing cars and things like that and I think as well it's the people that may be from more different walks of life that can't maybe articulate things in a certain way we don't see that as a negative it's a positive the passion that they have they will maybe throw it in different ways we've all just got to be be used in certain ways bring the tools to the table that you have and just try and that's a really good point that it's really important that we do that and wherever you come from if you love the club and you want better for it then that should be seen the home and away are a massive part of the family and it's celebrating that and helping sort of direct all of this in a positive way I think that's absolutely right there's loads of different parts of the fanbase seeing people there on Saturday you'd help them with some of the flags some of the illustrations for the leaflets there's so many parts of this fanbase that can help get the message across whatever that is and I think what the media or certainly what the club wants they want those images of cars getting chased they want those images of even players being talked to in the streets even though that was quite a civil conversation you can frame that in so many different ways if you want to you can edit it in a situation where Jeremy Meany looks a little bit distressed if Evertonians can stay away from that kind of thing you're absolutely right some fans will find it hard to articulate their feelings because they're so angry about the situation but if we can find the mechanism and I know there's a meeting next week we can find the mechanism for all these people to have a voice to get their voice over and plan everything properly this could be a massively strong moment for the club for the fans to articulate as a group where we're going and we have to understand as well the core of this is all being club driven where we are now and the way people are responding and reacting it's club driven and this has taken years to get to this point it's spiral to this point and the club can't say anything about it because they've essentially created this culture they've bred this this sort of us and them thing exactly and it's turned against them 100% and it's got to be the fans voice now yeah it's got to be so there you go let us know your thoughts in the comments on this which direction would you like to see it going if you are one of those people that wants to see a ffizzle out and wait till the end of the season let us know as well on what you want and how you see it going you know we want to hear all voices on this because I think it's massively important we're not just talking to people who are involved we want to be involved but people who are not involved and see this as a distraction from what's going on in the pitch big thanks to Sarah we're going to be hearing more from her so there you go give this video a like subscribe if you haven't already join us over on toffeeTV premiere the link is in the description and the QR code is coming up on the screen now