 Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ Interview Show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. As people may have seen on front porch form recently, there was a queer arts festival that happened at the rec field in Plainfield. And I'm told that there were over 70 queer vendors and 1500 people attended. And having driven through Plainfield like that afternoon, there were people who were parking as far away as the Goddard College campus to walk down and participate. So today we are talking with two of the people who brought that together. So first, welcome Dana and welcome Martin. Hi, thanks for having us. So was I indeed accurate that you had over 70 vendors and you estimated 1500 people coming and looking at queer crafts? Yeah. So I think our vendor count, we had over 140 people apply initially, so we ended up having a wait list. And then I think our final number ended up being about 70 vendors. And we had one of those handy little clicker counters at our welcome table and our best guest is over 1500 people. Yeah, the Plainfield rec field is not a linear place with a door that you can go in and out. So obviously people come around the edges. In addition to the vendors and the attendees, we also had a bunch of performers doing everything from circus arts to singer songwriting and poetry. So there was probably a dozen, 15 performers Martin. Yeah. OK, I don't remember seeing that either on the front porch forum post or in the article that was published afterwards with a lovely photograph of Liv saying, you should have been here. But I also understand this was not the first time that you had organized and. Produced a queer arts event. Yeah, yeah, last December we put on the first ever queer craft fair, which was at the labor hall in Berry, where there was about 35 vendors sort of shoulder to shoulder in the very labor hall. And we clicker counted about 1000 people that came out that day, even in there had been a big snowstorm the day before, which was a bit of stress for everybody. But still we had 1000 people and the mayor of Berry was quoted in the Times, I guess is talking about the economic impact on the town of Berry that we had. So yeah, that was that was the first queer arts event. But then Martin was saying, well, let's do it in the summer. Let's have a summer arts festival. And we thank you, Martin, for saying let's do this again. So how did you come up with the idea to begin with to do a specific queer arts crafts event? Well, Martin, do you want to talk about the summer one specifically? Or should I go all the way back to the lineage of like the craft fair and then from there, the arts festival? Yeah, let's start with the craft fair. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think neither of us are the like 100 percent originator founders of the craft fair, but I was asked by my neighbor and one of our crafter vendors, Jan Lloyd, to who wanted to organize a LGBTQ queer craft fair. And Jan asked me and my other neighbor, Lily Baker, who also or Lee Baker, sorry, they've changed their name, Lee Baker, who lives down the street, who and said, hey, do you want to organize this thing? And that was about a year ago. And I was like, I've never organized a craft fair and I'm not actually a crafts person. I'm a graphic designer and I'm an organizer of things. But cool, sounds like fun. Sounds like a worthy thing. I like to organize things. You all seem like fun people. And then, I don't know, a month or so in, Jan backed out of the organizing process and said, I still think this is a great event. I'm excited to vent, but turns out I actually don't have the bandwidth to be in an organizing role. And Lee and I were like, oh, shoot, we can't do this with two of us, but it still sounds like fun. And so then Martin came on board and then Martin brought their friend Harry on board and I brought my friend Eliza on board. So it was sort of a slowly building organizing committee. But yeah, that's a great question to go back and ask Jan what their idea was for this festival in general. But I can certainly say that the thing that excited me about it was having an outlet for queer folks together and build community that was about joy and was about creativity and what are we building toward and wasn't just a protest against all the things that are bad or a vigil or a rally or something that, you know, is sort of pushing back against bad things and like the focus on bad and hard things. And those things are real, like let's be clear. Like I'm not saying they don't exist. That's important. But yeah, to really have a space that front loads joy and creativity and the like sparkle of being queer and the magic of being queer. I was like, yes, yes, I'm here for events that are about building the world we want and not just resisting the world we don't. I remember Jan's first post on front porch farm where she threw out the idea of this is what I'm thinking I want to do and was using the language that you just shared again, Dana, about I want to create a joyful event. I want to create something that supports and celebrates who who we are as as communities and as craftspersons. So here's this great idea. And then we'll come to you, Martin, about what happens happened with the festival this summer, but how did you locate the vendors? Yeah, that's a really fun, sort of a fun story where Leigh and I were like, well, I don't know, maybe we'll have. We sort of we're looking at venues. We're like, I don't know how many vendors are we going to have? Maybe it'll just be 10 friends. You know, Leigh as a craftsperson who is sort of just starting up as a professional potter, said that they often felt sort of excluded from the bigger fancier craft fairs and wanted to have a space where like you could be an amateur at your art and that was fine and great and accepted. So they're like, well, maybe it'll be me and 10 other people and we'll just wander around and look at each other's stuff. I don't know. We got the word out. We got the word out on front porch forum and we had started this Instagram page. So we posted on there. We posted on some various signal threads, which is like a text messaging platform. We, you know, sent it to friends individually that we knew. And we had like 50 applicants in a week and we were like, oh, no. OK, wait, shoot, we didn't have a plan for that. We had a plan for like 10 people. So the winter fair was a little messy in terms of vendors because there was obviously a need and a want for this. And we didn't have a system built that accommodated for that. So we sort of just had to close applications after a week or 10 days and be like, well, I guess it's first come, first serve. Cool, great. And we reorganized that system for the summer to allow for an open application period in which people could be more leisurely about applying and then a lottery system after that. I am so I am amazed, impressed, and it brings back the old adage of be careful what you ask for because and you had mentioned, you know, the an Instagram site and from our conversation prior to starting the interview, you are you have two different places where people might be able to go to access what has been a growing vendors list and we'll make sure that those get posted because there might be times that I really want to support a queer artisan. OK, so Martin, you had this great success for the holidays. You you want to get out when the weather is nice and spend time with people. So tell me about how the festival came together. Yeah. So right, the December fair ended up being such a success. And part of part of the vision from the beginning or at least from when I joined was that this could be more than just a craft fair and that we would have these other elements of community connection and community care. And so some examples of what that looked like is that we had a team of deescalators and medical medically trained folks who were present throughout the whole event who are not only there to attend to first aid needs, but also had herbal tinctures and herbal tea and were kind of just checking in with folks about their emotional well-beating at the event. And then we also had more sort of like radical abolitionist framework that relates to our like broader queer community. And so we had this letters to queer prisoners table that folks could engage with folks who are incarcerated. And then we also had a table for people to write letters to queer youth. And so we had all these different elements in place at that winter fair. And a lot of the feedback we received was that it just felt it felt like more than just a place to buy and sell things. It felt like a place to really build community and vision the world we want. And so taking that idea, we also wanted to make it more physically accessible for folks who maybe didn't feel safe being indoors. That was a fully masked event, but we were tracking that, you know, we're still in a pandemic and we wanted a space that could not only be safer for people who are immunocompromised, but that also incorporates a more sort of multi-species community web. So doing it outdoors was the next logical step for that. And we also wanted to grow. We kind of immediately outgrew the Berry Labor Hall. And so in our expanding vision of what what more could be possible, could we have circus artists? Could we have musicians? Could we have vegetable growers? The vision expanded to fit to fill a whole field. Did you also invite queer organizations to come and have tables saying, OK, here is like outright Vermont. And I'm thinking that Mosaic in Berry has been doing a lot of reaching out to survivors of sexual violence. And, you know, there's a central Vermont queers social group. Was there the opportunity for them to table at the events so they could share this is who we are in the community. And this is how you can access us. Yeah, I think we we didn't we haven't totally figured out what our relationship to all of the various community organizations is. The Pride Center ended up having a table at the Arts Festival, partly because Kell Arbor was our really fabulous emcee for the day and they're connected to the Pride Center. So and we had a vendor drop out and we needed to fill the space. And so that was a sort of a last minute thing. But we certainly partnered with outright in writing these notes to Queer Youth, which they call Heck Yes, and they get sent. We sent the notes to outright and they sent them on to youth who could stand to see them. So yeah, we're still we're still navigating that and working. You know, how do we as sort of a grassroots upstart organization fit in with that network of community organizations? But it certainly would be something I'd be open to. And when you have an outdoor space that is a field, it feels more spacious like you can say yes to things as they come. If someone says, Oh, can I do this? Can I do that? What if we had a this? What if we had a that? The you're less limited by walls and doors in an outdoor space. So I guess that I also just wanted if I could to tack on to the dream that Martin was was talking about for the Queer Arts Festival and just bring up the centering of rural queer lives. Like I think that was something that became apparent in our fall organizing and in the communities that showed up for this, that, you know, there's so many LGBTQ things that happen in Chittenden County and there's so much craft and art stuff in Chittenden County. And we have just such a wealth of beautiful people making beautiful things tucked away in little nooks in the woods. And there's particular challenges that come with being a queer person in a rural space. And so we really wanted to focus on rural living and what it means to be a rural queer person. And so we ended up prioritizing folks in this round of vendors who identified as a rural queer as well as prioritizing crafters who were black, indigenous people of color. But we really, yeah. So the like outdoor arts festival slash country fair vibe on the earth with all those other beings in place was like fits well with a rural celebration. I mean, all of that is inherently is inherently a rural celebration. You can't have that in birth, you know, exactly. I mean, all of that just sounds to respond to a part of our community's identities that's been long overlooked. And acknowledging that we're all here, that we have opportunities to connect with each other. And it may not be in a traditional manner, but we get to create what works for us. And I've been listening to both of your. Language, as you've been talking about, you know, the craft and the festival and sort of this loose form organization. And it sounds like you're intending on being around for a while. And we should be looking toward future events. Yes, the short answer. The longer answer is, do you have a sense of. Creating annual events that people from within the queer communities can look forward to and it's like, OK, I'll be looking for something happening during the summer as this outdoor festival. And I love, you know, musicians and circus and and all of that, as well as, you know, this sort of indoor winter craft kind of thing. Yeah, I think that's that's we're at the basically the one year mark since this whole thing was dreamed up. So annual is now becoming a word that is entering our lexicon that wasn't before. So you're catching us in this interview in a moment when I think we are thinking about that question as well, like, what does this look like on an ongoing basis? But I know that, like, this has been a very well received two events. It is it just means more to people than like Martin said, than just the exchange of goods. Like there is a, you know, I felt so connected. I felt a sense of belonging. I felt a sense of home. Oh, and by the way, I made a lot of money selling crafts. Like the first the first feedback from people is always this like more intangible, emotional community vibe. So I want to keep doing that. I want to keep making those things. And we are planning a winter fair to happen probably sometime in December, but we haven't we haven't set a date yet. We have to poke around for a venue that's the right size to hold what we are now and what we want to be. So look for that soon, very soon. I was going to say, let let me give a resounding yes, please, you know, when you talk about looking at creating events, whatever. And as you're talking about it, it reminds me of the intent of out of the open in Brattaburl, where they specifically reached out to rural queer community members saying, how do how do we support you? How do we celebrate you? And how do we share our identities with each other? So that sounds so anything that you would like to share about? You know, craft fairs, festivals moving forward. Or if if I wanted to come and. Assist, be supportive in the process. How would I do that? Yeah, so there's a lot of ways to participate, whether it's as a crafter, as a volunteer at one of our events, as a volunteer in the lead up to one of our events. We also have been partnering with some local businesses as our sponsors at this last festival that was hugely supportive. What else, Dana? Yeah, I think we have some some ways that I can offer you to be involved. But also if you have a dream for a way to be involved, we love that also. So this is events that are only limited by the scope of what we can imagine together. But yeah, I'm the person who coordinated volunteers for both events. So I can say that we definitely need people who are ready to help out on, you know, the day before to set up or the day of to help direct parking. You saw the people parking up at Goddard, our parking volunteers did an amazing job and we could have used more of them. So that kind of really practical help is great. We like to offer snacks to our volunteers. We offer snacks to our vendors in the winter. So if there's a group that wants to donate us soup or cookies or snacks, that's great, too. Like Martin said, we asked for for business sponsorships in this last round of of event. And that was huge for us, like a huge chunk of our budget and just such a delight to get to see businesses coming out to really support the queer community in that way. So I know this is a tricky time to be a business in central Vermont. But like if you are a business owner or you know someone who is a business owner who might be a good fit, we have fun and silly sponsorship opportunities like decorate a porta potty in your name with foil glitter. Because why not? This is about this is a like non traditional business sponsorship model. But yeah, I see that as part of part of maybe a step toward envisioning a different economic model. And it's just a baby step in that direction. But like, how can we redistribute the wealth that exists in our communities toward the people who need it? And so if there is a business that is doing well, if there are folks, you know, individual folks, we just start talking about how do we start accepting donations from individuals who want to give to this? And we haven't figured that out. But if you want to do that, reach out and we will figure that out. So financial support, like physical showing up support, we have had people you know, help us post to their front porch forums about the event and help us hang posters. And we have had painting parties where you come paint signage. Like there really are so many ways to support. So yeah, I would say stay tuned to the Instagram or you can email us at that VT Queer Crafts email or stay tuned to the link tree. We have posted a volunteer sign up form there at some point. Yeah, be in touch. There's lots of ways. I was going to say, and all things LGBTQ when we do our news format program, when we talk about local and regional, there's an event section. So as soon as you have a date, please let us know. We'll put some advertising out there for you on an ongoing basis as well as a and this is how you can connect to volunteer. So with that, thank you for what you've already created. And thank you so much for the vision going forward. Yeah, you're so welcome. So frequent viewers of all things LGBTQ may have noticed that when I talk about events occurring in Vermont, that I frequently make the statement if it's Thursday, there must be a pop up happening somewhere. Well, I thought it's been a while. So let's circle back and talk to the organization that started those pop ups out in the 802. And joining me tonight are two people who are associated without in the 802. The first is Randy Violet. Randy, you can say hello. Hello. And the other is Carl Andrews. And Carl, you can say hello. Hello. So what I'd like to talk about is the history of out in the 802, the types of things that you're offering, how they're developed and the experience of people who attend it. So, Randy, you you've been associated with this organization for a while. Could you tell us? Could you tell us a little bit of how it came into being and some of the transitions that have occurred over the years? Sure. The group started in 1990 and in those days, it was called Vermont Gay Social Alternatives. And it came about because a person named Realme Son wanted to create a way for us to meet each other outside of the bar. And remember, in those days, there was a gay bar in Burlington. So he he won. I don't want to say wholesome, but he just wanted a way to meet other than in the bar. So he created this group and in those days, it involved people were dues paying members and it was a small steering committee to put together a newsletter every month. And we would organize all of the events and send out the newsletter. And the group just kind of grew and grew that way. At one point in those days, we had anywhere from three to four hundred to five hundred members. Impressive. So it seems impressive. But of those, a lot of them were silent members. You never really saw them at anything. OK, so what were the types of events that you were organizing? And I appreciated that you were trying to create a social environment versus something that was, you know, alcohol laden sort of pickup derived. It was we got to spend time with each other. Yeah, and it wasn't necessarily to get away from alcohol because a lot of our events did involve people bringing their own drinks. So it is very similar to what we're doing today. We would do Sunday brunches, game nights at people's homes and sometimes organize events where we'd go somewhere, go for a hike or something. Back in those days, there were a couple of big events that we planned each year. We had a New Year's Eve party usually the Sheridan Hotel for many years. And that would draw three to four hundred people in its heyday. Then also we would have a pride cruise on Lake Champlain in conjunction with pride every year. And that in the beginning drew huge crowds and there was a lot of fun. As time went on and we became in Vermont, we sort of became victims of Be Careful, what you asked for, you might get it. And we were free to go almost anywhere. We didn't need the the individual, the specifically LGBTQ events anymore. So we saw attendance at those events start dropping off. And then we went more to doing the smaller events in people's homes and like brunches and game nights. OK, so originally it was Vermont Gay Social Alternatives. You're now out in the 802. I was going to say, and you're about to answer my question already. What was how did that transition come about and what precipitated it? Well, before that transition came about, we we've decided to move away from the dues paying newsletter. Pan, I can't think of the word system we're working under. So we sort of stopped doing that and Facebook was becoming a bigger deal. So I think in 2014, we stopped the other way of running our organization and we went to a Facebook driven group. There were a lot of reasons for that, but it was we had a steering committee that was really worn out and people just weren't attending our groups as much. So we did that. And at that point, we sort of ended the steering committee and we're trying to be a grassroots member driven event organization where the members would create events for us. And that would be a venue for them to publicize them. That didn't work very well. We found out in a steering committee working behind the scenes, there just wasn't much going on. So then some newer people came along with new interests and new excitement about the group and they got re-involved and they got involved and we sort of recreated a steering committee where we meet once a month or periodically anyway. And we do plan events. Along about the same time, we realized that Vermont Gay Social Alternatives could be considered exclusionary to a lot of people. It didn't seem to encompass the entire LGBTQ community. And we thought that was limiting our membership, particularly for people who are not gay men. So that was when the discussion came about changing the name and after a lot of discussions and a lot of ideas put forward, we ended up with Out in the 802. So the organization, as I understand it, is inclusive. Anyone could attend any event. Anyone can attend any event, true. But the primary contact is on Facebook. So I would need to have a Facebook account to be able to really interact with other people in Out in the 802. There is another one that I think Carl can talk more about that than I can. You want to take that, Carl? Yeah. So they asked if we could maybe look at some other ways of getting hold of people because not everybody has a Facebook page these days. So we are now on Meetup. So you can search for Out in the 802. I think we have a couple hundred folks following us on Meetup and we post events, you know, regularly up on Meetup. We're exploring and looking for other ways of maybe reaching out to people. I mean, there's Instagram. There's there's all these other different ways. Now there's X, whatever that is. But but for now, it's just Facebook and Meetup. X is the option you get on your Vermont driver's license or birth certificate that that that Twitter is trying to appropriate from us. So, Carl, so now that you sort of have stepped in a little bit, I wanted to ask you that when you and your husband were moving here from Pennsylvania, you most likely were looking for, OK, what are the available resources that would be available to us? How did you happen to find out in the 802 and what was it about the organization that was attractive to you and your husband? Yep, absolutely. So we moved here about a year ago and I was kind of on Facebook, searching around, just kind of looking at different events or activities and came across out in the 802 activities and events. And the the thing that caught my eye was they were having a brunch. And who doesn't love a brunch? I mean, come on. So my husband was traveling at the time. It was actually his first trip. Since COVID and he was over in Europe. And so when he got home, I said, hey, tomorrow we're going to a brunch. And I surprised him with I said, yeah, it's this it's this out in the 802 group. And I don't really know where it is. Somewhere over in Richmond. Maybe it's Richford. I don't know. It's somewhere here in Vermont. And it was a lot of fun, but we were, you know, we had to take a little bit of a leap of faith and take a drive out. It was Richmond, wasn't it? Isn't it down in Richmond? So we drove out some mountain down a dirt road and went ahead and went on in. And, you know, it was it was really terrific because we it was instant friends and it was instant community. And and people who like to just talk and have brunch and eat a quiche and and get to know you a little bit. So we really feel fortunate that we have this resource available to us and have taken full advantage of it, going to other events beyond just brunch as well. So what are the other events that you've attended? Are the other events that I've attended? So there's the monthly happy hours that take place. I think it's the first and third Thursdays that are down at Lincoln's in Burlington. We'll speak easy down by Red Square. There is a happy hour up at St. Albans and I can't remember the exact day, but you can look on Facebook or meet up and find out what day that one is. It's a Thursday as well. And then there is also one over in St. Johnsbury as well. There have been some other get-together type things like there's a couple of guys who have sponsored a barn dance out in St. Johnsbury that's really fun. You haven't lived until you've seen a mirror ball hanging an old dairy barn. It just is pretty cool. So it reminds me of a date I had once. Yeah. OK, so, Randy, how did the pop ups come into being? I was remembering my college days and how much I enjoyed going downtown on Friday to happy hours. Every bar had happy hours in those days. They are no longer really allowed in Vermont. And we call our event happy hour, but it's not a bar sponsored happy hours. It's just us getting together. And that's how it came to be. And it has become very, very successful. Some nights there may be 10 or 12 of us there. Other nights there are 40 or 45. It's unpredictable. You never know. But the fact that it's reliably the first and third Thursday for the Lincoln's one is something people can count on. They know they can go if they want or not go. And there's always going to be somebody there. So I think I believe that it was set up to do something every Thursday of the month. So first and third are Lincoln's. I think the second is St. Albans and the fourth is St. John's Jerry. And then occasionally we have a fifth Thursday where nothing happens unless someone steps up and makes it happen. So we have to thank your 25 cent a beer night from your college days for our pop ups. OK, so how are other events created? I mean, is this something that the Steering Committee talks about? Or is this something that comes from routinely asking members what they would like? How do you decide what events to sponsor? We have the Staples Brunch. And what happens is one person on the Steering Committee sort of takes over being the Zara Brunch and he will line up someone to do brunches for the entire year. And that involves going to people and asking them very, very rarely do we have people coming to us with ideas for events. But it is happening. Well, oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead, Carl. So I just top of mind some other things that we've we've done some bike rides and some hikes tomorrow or Saturday. I'm sorry, Saturday. There's a group, a small group, meaning at Rokeby Museum. So we're trying to broaden our horizons beyond brunch and happy hours and trying to kind of get some activities for people to come and do things outside of the ordinary. And I just wanted to also plug if you are new to Vermont, some of these events take place in other places than Chittenden County. And it is a fantastic way to get out into the state and meet other people and also see some of the like I had never been to St. Johnsbury and I love it now. I had never been to Richmond before and I love Richmond. And and to some different places, Addison was down in Addison on the lake for Fourth of July at a fun event. So. So if no, go ahead, Randy, you have something to add. How brings up a really good point and it goes back to having new blood on the steering committee. Historically, we had very little luck in attracting people to our events from outside of the Chittenden County area. And then one of the new people on the new he's been there several years now. Wayne Whipple came along and he decided that he was going to get us memberships and events all over the state. So he took on the task of creating events outside of Chittenden County and he had brought in. A lot of people that he has, he does the events in St. Albans, he's responsible for what happens in St. Johnsbury and we're always, always trying to expand that. But it has increased the richness of our group by a lot. And I'm very proud of Wayne for doing that. I didn't think it could be done in. He deliberately set out to prove me wrong and he did. And just this spring or maybe it was early summer, he took us up to he got a group together and we went up to Derby line. Is that the place with the shared board? Fascinating, small little town, had a brunch with some really nice folks up there. And then we all went to the opera house slash library, which has a common border and that was kind of curious. And got to see a play. So so we're really looking for interesting things to do and always open for suggestions. I was going to say the opera house library, you always have to be very careful which door you go out. And which parking lot you park in. OK, so you mentioned new people coming onto the steering committee. How would I become involved with added the 802? And how would I become involved with the steering committee? Well, you would just let one of us know that you're interested and we would let you know when we meet. It's usually on on a Monday evening around six o'clock and the date and place can vary. But we would certainly be happy to have you. OK, these are in person versus virtual zoom. Go to meeting type meetings. You know, we just had that discussion at our last meeting, which was this week. Last night, actually, we we were talking specifically about expanding the steering committee and we were talking about bringing people in from St. John'sbury from Barry or Rutland. And then we came we could do this kind of thing to have the meetings. And that way people wouldn't have to physically be in this in the same room. So that I'm kind of excited about that idea. OK, so you are currently actively looking for individuals who might be willing to become involved, insert on the steering committee and help direct the organization in the events that you're sponsoring. We are. OK. So another question you talked about when coming in and taking over, which I am so surprised, right? But reaching out beyond Chittington County for. Places for events to occur have has out in the 802 looked at collaborating with some of the other groups statewide to sponsor mutual organizations. I had to sponsor mutual events. Carl, do you know more about that? Well, I know for, for example, in Northeast Kingdom, we we will tag on or help amplify activities by posting it on out in the 802. I know that the the big Northeast Kingdom pride drive thing is coming up and, you know, we'll probably post that on our out in the 802 just to help amplify that message. And but but I think they've got their own organization or organizers taking care of that. But certainly I think it would be welcome to have, you know, groups collaborating on maybe one very large event or maybe one very large pride event. I know we in out in the 802 we also amplified getting the word out about Northeast Kingdom pride parade, the Rutland pride, also pride center stuff that's happening down in Barry and that sort of thing. So OK, so it's go ahead, Randy. That's a really good point. We do cross pollinate our page with events from other organizations. We're very, very happy to post their events on our page. And hopefully some of them are doing the same for us. Well, I was going to say when, you know, I see that there is event that out in the 802 is sponsoring. I will include it in the event section for all things LGBTQ. I think I went to a brunch that was co-sponsored by Momentum and out in the 802 many years ago. We won't talk about how long ago that was. OK, so. Looking at out in the 802 moving forward. Are there any long range plans of. Sustaining the organization or how you would like to grow? I know, I know it's a trick question. Yeah. I think we are always looking at our events to bring in new members and to recruit people at our events to sponsor an event either at their home or to plan a bike ride or. Anything they want to plan a museum day or a game night. We love game nights. So. I think it's more or less stay the course and grow slowly the way we are kind of organically and person to person to person. As I say, it sounds as though. Out in the 802 has developed its identity and it's comfortable and that and it's looking at how do we do the things that sustain this so that. We're a comfortable place for people just to come and spend time with each other and from what you've said, Carl, that was your experience coming from Pennsylvania and the introduction to Vermont? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I think one thing that both my husband and I have noticed about Vermont is it is a resource rich state when it comes to LGBTQ. Resources centers groups. What what have you support networks? What have you what I think is is is you talked about the future for for out in the 802 and we talked about this last night that our steering committee meeting, you know, we. We want to really reach out in courage, not just gay men to come to these things, but our, our lesbian, our transgender are anybody to come just if you want, if you want to meet people, if you want to meet friendly people, if you want to just feel comfortable and have a good time just to come and you know, sometimes I think it would be easy that if you come to one event, you might look and say, oh my, this is a very homogenous group, but we're really working hard not to be homogenous. You know, you're to make room for for a little diversity in there. Exactly. Okay, so as we end our time with each other. Is there anything about out at the 802 that I haven't asked you about that you would like people watching this interview to know. I would just like to say that my favorite thing about this group is bringing people like Carl and we were resourced for people, new people coming in and we've done that. It's happened time and time and time again, and it's delightful to me. I can also tell you that I've been involved in the group for 30 years, but even today, the vast majority of the people in my life came to me through this group. So that's very powerful. That's a very strong statement. Yeah. Okay, so Carl, you wanted to add. I was just going to say, you know, unfortunately, sometimes in the LGBTQ community, we find ourselves in a point in our life where maybe we don't have a lot of community. We may not even have family because for whatever reasons, some of them very tragic. We are left by ourselves. And I think having this kind of a group in this kind of a resource, not just out in the 802, but so many of the other groups as well, is so really very important to our well-being and our mental health. And, you know, take a chance, even if it's not without an 802, take a chance and go visit a center, a, you know, a group like ours, the Northeast Kingdom group. I mean, you name it a momentum pride center downtown. There are so many great resources and just take a chance and go and meet some folks and have some fun. We have a queer community who's waiting to meet you. And with that, thank you for spending this time. And I look forward to promoting your events. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.