 Hey everybody. This is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with Leslie. Hey Leslie. Hi. And Yami of course is there. If you have any questions around ESNs in the background, Yami is there to field those. So yes. Well Leslie, for folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you and what do you do? Okay, so I'm Leslie Crook. I am in Brighton in the UK. I'm kind of like 10 minutes from the sea down on the south coast and I have, I'm six years MVP. Not as nice as your way. You've displayed them on your wall there. Mine's just blue tacked without the shiny over the front, but that's the best way I could do it on my wardrobe doors. So yeah, so I'm a bit unusual in the MVP program because my background is actually corporate communications. But that seems to be coming to the forefront now because now it's wonderful that the communications professionals have now got Viva connections and Viva engage and the communicator, the company communicator in teams as well. So there are a lot of lovely applications and features there which are purely designed for, for the getting the word out and engaging the employees with when I used to work in comms. It was really, really difficult to get to the frontline workers on the, I had worked for a company where we had a lot of factories so it was getting down to the production lines. So it was very, very difficult, but but yeah, the tools there are at their fingertips now. Well, you know, there's always been. So, so somebody who like, like I always felt out of place, although I've been in tech for over 30 years, but I have marketing degrees. You know, that's, that's my, as a chief evangelist and chief marketing officer for different ISVs and, and even now I'm more in a partner channel role but still very involved in the community. And so I fit very much within the end user in the marketing communication side of things. But even going back when I started getting involved in the SharePoint community, there were a lot of people like us that were, you know, a more technical business users. But that we're really trying to leverage the platform that from a, you know, holistic and global scope, rather than, you know, admins building or users building solutions for their own teams was always thinking about, how do we share this information and what is the one version of the truth? What, how do we get people to engage more? And when adoption and engagement started in the last four or five years, especially, and I know that there were others that we're talking about before that, but it's really less the last few years. More people like us have been coming to the forefront and saying, yeah, we're, we don't have to worry about keeping servers up and running. We're confident in the in the platform running now, and we can focus on what are we really trying to do with the technology, and by having more people involved, and if they get that information, and if it's there in real time and they're collaborating together, that we're going to be able to accomplish more, we're going to innovate more. And so, yeah, I think it's, it definitely has changed the discussion. And then certainly with Microsoft Viva introduction, that changes things even more. Yeah, it's funny. There was two things you said there that just sparked things from the past when I was, because I used to work at GlaxoSmithKlineGSK. I was there for a long time. And when Yammer came started to come surface and I was the, the, the comms business partner to the IT guys that were running the network, the, it was interesting you said about the servers when they used to go down. It was always the people that were on Yammer that knew about the fix and knew what to do before anyone else. It was kind of like there was a hashtag that they were using called Yammer Solved. And it was, it used to be the people that used to know more about what was going on in the company were the smokers. Because they used to meet outside the back of the building. But then suddenly it was those that were using Yammer were suddenly in the know, and it was all this Yammer Solved that was going on. So are you saying that Yammer adopters are the new, the neo smokers of the modern workplace? Yeah, because it was called like the water cooler. Yeah, it started to be called the water cooler because those were, they used to go off and get a coffee and then they used to all go and meet outside the building and it was like a mixture of facilities management people, senior leaders, you know, it was support function staff and they used to think they know more about what's going on in the company and they did, but then that started to shift and then obviously going out and having a smoke was kind of started to be frowned upon and but some of them were going like six times a day. So it was like, seemed to be absolutely fine that they were spending six times a day marching off to go and stand outside the building. But the other I believe that thought there but the other one that is very been very important to me as an MVP is the movement of and the philosophy of working out loud that was that was kicked off by John stepper and Bryce Williams and Bryce works at Pfizer. Did I say that wrong? Is it father in in in it? No, sorry, Lily in Indianapolis. I need to remember that because my sister lives in India. So, yeah, and those two got together as I understand it at a workshop it must have been about, I don't know, eight or nine years ago and they sparked off John stepper being working for Deutsche Bank in New York, who's now gone out in the book working out loud so when Bryce came together I think it was Bryce that came up with the phrase work out loud working out loud, and then John took it to another level with the working out loud circles so for those that don't know about working out loud. The way I describe it in the broader term of enterprise social networking it's very simple it's sharing your work with a view. Others might find it helpful, and others might help you improve your work. It's like a reciprocal circle in his book John talks about working out loud circles and that's the cross pollination of people coming together and sharing their networks sharing their knowledge, guiding each other along and supporting each other on their goals, but they're not they're not actually working on a project together so a number of these circles have taken place in a lot of companies in Germany, because of the Deutsche Bank starting it from there. I took the idea of it and and brought that into enterprise social networks and I got the blessing from John stepper to do that. And he just said to me, you know, anyone that can spread the idea of this, you know, feel free to just to share the level of working out loud. So that's what started me on the road to the MVP program with Yammer and talking about working out loud and Ragnar Heel in Germany is also a big, big supporter of working out loud so. Yeah, I know Ragnar well as well. But yeah, it's interesting. I think that's where you have some people that are very negative on Yammer and yet you might like my history of presenting within the space like the first European SharePoint conference which was held in Berlin is the only one that's been in Germany so the first one. And this was before Microsoft acquired Yammer. And so I did a kind of analysis of ESNs and things that could integrate and didn't integrate was just talking about what SharePoint needs and why. And the room was packed. I ended up I was either the first or second highest rated session of the entire event. And so very excited about that. But a great interaction of people. So these are all SharePoint people along the admin side. And so sitting and talking about I'm very much you're talking about the why it's not just how you go and do deploy technologies like look there's a lot of great content and people that do walkthroughs of deploying that's great. I talk about the business case the scenarios the why you need that. And I did that with social making the case for that. I just blogged on this was talking about Viva engage. And one of the things I love about Viva engage is again it's breaking down the integrations. You know it's already using the Yammer communities app and so we've got that switch that happened within our organization, but with broader use of it acceptance of engage and Yammer through the engage app. And what it does is it helps surface information surface knowledge and expertise that might otherwise not be attached and and Leslie I know that you completely understand this scenario but like I shared just very quick story. When I started at Microsoft, I started in a team with a very specific role and job description. I went into the social tools this was again this was back in 2006 the beginning of 2006. And they had built some rudimentary social capabilities in for the profile so I went and added all of the projects I had been working on for 15 years all this other experience industry experience and gas and oil exploration. And a bunch of other fields that were unrelated to my job. And I didn't think anything of it the servers got updated within 24 hours. Two days later, I get a phone call but from two gentlemen over in a team in the oil and gas and the sales team and they're like, we have been desperately trying to find somebody that knows SharePoint and knows this segment. So I ended up doing demos and for them, and I did some introductions. So here I was able to go and help, you know, because then they found me through that connection, which if I were in teams today, working on my projects, no one would have any idea. Right. It's just, it's yet another silo. Yeah. And that's where we go back to the, the really wonderful model of the inner and outer loop, because that that was the for the Yammer community when teams came in when we saw that shared ignite when was that 2017 or something. Right. Yeah, I think so. I think it was around that time and we all just went, that explains it all. Whoever we could never work out who drew up that original model. I don't know if it was Satya Nadella himself. But it's such a good model and it still works today, but it doesn't need probably an update with Viva somewhere on it, but it's. I keep saying somebody Microsoft, if you're listening, somebody needs to go refresh that. Yeah. Well, Leslie, maybe we need to refresh it. Yeah. It wouldn't take a lot. It wouldn't take a lot. But yeah, it's there that teams is where you get your work done and you know everyone. And then Yammer is, you know, across the enterprise. It's serendipity, which is one of my favorite words. And that, you know, it's, it's that's the working out loud part. But I love now how on teams when you look at your profile, it's now got the LinkedIn icon. And you can now bring the outside in from that angle as well. If you've so you can only do that with, yeah, internally with colleagues that you've that well with colleagues obviously that you're working with. But I found it the other day when I tested out for the first time someone that has worked with us at Cloudway and is now left. I could still bring him in. Yeah. Because we've already had that conversation or something. So it's so you can still, yeah, it was like he was still sort of there. But I really like the idea of that. And I think I've read, I don't know if you wrote about this or another MVP wrote about this, this feature. And it is so useful to get to find out, especially someone that's new coming into the company that you can just, you know, you're in teams, you see their profile come up for the first time or see them chat for the first time. And you go, Oh, just click on that icon LinkedIn. And there you go within teams. It's all there just like you have now with Yammer that integration pops up there in teams. And you're saying, What is the difference between Viva engage and Yammer. It is just really at the moment it's just the integration. Right. That's it. Yeah, until we get storylines and stories. And that's all it is, it's the integration into teams now when someone messaged at mess that mentions you, you get the pop up in your activities in teams. And it's all blended. Yeah, it's why I'm waiting for like that capability. You know, there was some criticism when the announcement of even gauge like a Microsoft is just trying chasing after Facebook and Facebook workspace. And there's some truth to that, you know, from a competitive standpoint, it's like, but I mean that it's not like those ideas are, you know, a Facebook idea they existed outside of that and Facebook just was the most successful the most quickly. Yeah, I was it. I was a member of a platform that that was years earlier than Facebook was created called rise RYZ e still out there it's barely a shell. Adrian's loads of them. There's so many of them. Yeah, there's so many of them when I was at GSK they had about, I had about 20, which I didn't quite realize and then they had to be it guys had to decommission them, you know, and break them off R&D had the biggest most popular platform, but they were paying an extra subscription for that that had been built, particularly for, you know, the labs and, you know, for research and development, but they had to close it down to get everyone on to that one platform but they had about 20 different enterprise social networks but of course they were all siloed. So it was like, it was like using teams. So talking about like even going in and click on the profile getting a LinkedIn which I use all the time. Yeah, but I can't wait for the next step of that the new features and through engage where I can treat it like Facebook where I do extensive blogging outside it's my personal stuff on my weekends and my I can post those things that might be related to other things that I'm reading and events that I've got and people that I've talked to and be able to post there. Again, they're not tied to, they may not be relevant to the projects that I own or am participating in, but I have this other experience that I can put in there that I can tag that I can make it part of the rich social fabric that kind of covers the organization and then spark other conversations. What are they calling that feature? Do we know what that's linked? I don't linked in linked out. I don't I don't know. But yeah, the the I'm waiting for that to well it's I know the time that we have I do want to ask you like what was your path to becoming an MVP so you're a six time MVP now kind of how did you get there what did you do what was what was different how just stand out. It was from GSK so I helped nurture the network there and and it was also through the the Yammer customer network so I got really involved in the YCN and then I suddenly started having all these new professional connections outside of the company that we weren't talking about trade secrets new drugs or anything like that we were talking about better ways of working modern ways of working just like it had gone before 25 30 years before with email and then file servers prior to that you had fax machines and tell it we were talking about better ways of working and that's what we were excited about so I also started to get invited by the Yammer customer success managers to go and help other companies in the farmer sector on their Yammer journey or you know it wasn't always the farmer farmer sector and then so I my eyes were open to working out kind of like helping other companies so it got to a point in GSK that we've got to tipping point and my boss said to me right it's fine you know you don't need to keep on nurturing it they've all got it yeah it's fine I want you to concentrate on these other things which I was doing all these other things anyway it wasn't kind of like my whole job and then I just thought I really don't want to be doing this stuff you're like just here just in one company I wanted to go and spread the love of enterprise social networking so I left to help other companies but actually had a really difficult time because I was too soon a recruiter did say to me you're about two years too soon he goes you've got a very niche nice CV but you're two years too soon and I didn't get any work as a consultant I was also a fledgling and I'd never worked as a consultant before so I spent a lot of time having coffees with people who were sitting there with a big notebook writing everything down that I was saying I even got invited into Facebook workplace in London to pick my brains. My big notebook says yeah right it all down and and then they were like all right write it all down and then like I never heard from them again. Yeah like so um so that went on free because it's called free consulting Leslie what you did I did the exact same thing where I just I actually angrily it was interviewing for something for a massive project and heard from somebody inside the company later is like Christian they implemented your entire plan that you laid out in that in your interview they like they exactly went through. Well yeah so I but I what I did in that time I was I can I started to blog. There was some great employee stories that came out of GSK right across the business that we worked on before I left as part of a big celebration about reaching 50,000 within the company. So we made some heroes and champions of people in the business and they all got loads of swag and but I've helped write up curate help to curate those stories and bring those. Those Yammer champions of those yam ambassadors to to the front of the, you know, raise them up within the organization and it all happens as I remember rightly towards the end of the year, when we were going through personal development reviews. So they had great stories to share with their bosses, and they all, we got stories on the homepage of the of the internet under strategy company people or people strategy and these people were like from the offices around the world in the factories. They were suddenly at on the company on the company internet like you know you just wouldn't expect them, those people to be there. So I blogged on those stories outside the company, and I got pretty close good relationships with the customer success managers that now a lot of them had moved into Microsoft, and was nominated by three of them because back then it was Microsoft that had to nominate you. So I got nominated by three of those lovely people. And that's how I got on to the onto the MVP program and just continued with, you know, change, helping people with change management helping to build champion networks as we started to evolve into using teams. So the Yammer part has died away for me in the last couple of years because it's really been about helping to a teams adoption running lots of training teams out team owners and end users, all different types of sites of training now running Viva workshops with my colleagues at Cloudway Accelerator workshops. And, yeah, I've got, I've got my little piece of rock here. So, so yeah, so that's, and it's lovely that I've come full circle and now we're back kind of like front and center with with with Viva engage and all the goodness that that that's bringing. But I'm really interested in the graph that Microsoft graph that brings all this together, but I can't hear anyone talking about the graph I'm hearing lots of people talking about the kind of like the, the, the new, you know, the integration and the new features that coming. But I'm really interested in the graph. And I don't really anything. Well, you know, you have like Jeremy takes whole team and there's a bunch of people he's hired a bunch of MVPs that are now part of the graph API team. Right. And so most of them they write they do a ton of stuff and tons of community stuff. So they're very prolific there, but they don't have like a business mouthpiece. Oh, okay. And so I would even, I would say there's an opportunity there for anybody listening but Leslie to go and do that. I will, I've heard of Jeremy's name so I will go and look him up and LinkedIn and see if I'm not I'm thinking we're probably already connected but yeah I think it's a, it's an opportunity because that's really important because we all had, I think we were all aware of a while back and then there was the profiles that we had, but that's all been tidied up now and it's bringing it all back, you know, reimagined and even better than it was before so. Yeah, there's a lot going on. Well, so what would in last question here so what advice would you give to somebody who's interested in becoming an MVP like how can they go stand out like what are you mentoring anybody are you guiding anybody today on that that path. Yeah, so I'm actually with a bunch of bunk with a bunch of MVPs around Viva called the Viva explorers. We are, we're all different, all MVPs we're from now there's just over 30 of us, and I think we should invite you on board. I haven't received anything in the mail so I've been waiting. Right, it's coming. I think we'd have this chat first, but I think that will be a really nice thing. Yeah, so yeah we've got Australia, we've got India, South Africa, yeah about nine of us in the UK, a whole bunch of you in the US, Canada so yeah I'm really pleased that I think we've covered every continent. We need more in Asia Pacific, we really need some more exploring. I may have some suggestions for you. Yeah, okay. So, but yeah, we're bringing people along all the time that are talking about Viva. So this is not just the enthusiasm behind the Viva suite and this kind of exploring and discovering base that we're going through this journey that we're on. We don't want to keep it just for MVPs, it is about us getting into the community and working with the customers and partners and cross pollinating the idea of this. This is about creating a better employee experience, that's the movement that we're trying to create. So we have friends of Viva explorers that are in the partner network. So, but the thing is we have to, you know, we operate under NDA, so the Viva explorers is just MVPs, so we can freely talk about things that we're hearing, but we have this new kind of add-on of that we can see who is on social media, who is blogging and podcasts and around Viva and have really got it. So we are calling them the friends of Viva explorers, but equally that could be a route into becoming an MVP. So we are going to be, we've got events coming up, we've got one in Manchester, Microsoft offices in Manchester on the 12th of November. We're just organizing that now. We haven't actually published that event yet, but we hope to publish it within the next, definitely within the next two weeks. And we've got some of the friends of the explorers coming along to present at that session. So that's from the point of view of the group, the community that I'm in with the Viva explorers, that's a route to becoming an MVP from the Viva angle. So yeah, if you contact any of us that you might know, you know, get your blogs out there. And then I, because I'm monitoring it all the time for anything to do with Viva. And I'm like, oh, there's another one popped up. That's the angle I'm coming from to help newbies come on board. I guess my really my last question probably helps people in contacting you is like, what are the best ways to reach you Leslie? You've got LinkedIn that's out there, but do you have like a blog? Do you want to point people to? Yeah, I've got a blog. It's called the Viva visionary. And I'm on there as I've reimagined myself with an empowering makeover that you won't recognize with my binoculars. It's called you look for the Viva visionary. I've written about 28 blogs since last November around Viva and teams. But the easiest way to find me is probably on LinkedIn. Excellent. Well Leslie, really appreciate the time today and great conversation around this. We need to go into it's not enough time to go. No, I know it's like, yeah, it's a lot isn't there awful lot going on. Maybe we'll have to do a crossover talk on the collab talk podcast at length, which is more like an hour long or more or more where we can dig in and talk about some of the history of the ESN capabilities and the importance of those that functionality within the enterprise. But Leslie, really thank you for your time. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and we'll connect with you soon. Thank you so much. Thanks very much. And I'll be in touch about joining us on the Viva Explorer journey.