 Yes, I will start them by saying that this is a Vicky presentation way. He's chief senior policy advisor, who is an expert, but I believe in foreign affairs to speak on what is the situation in Haiti and in Columbia. Hi, my name is Tim Rees here from the way his office, and we also have another expert on Haiti who is Robin Lloyd, who will be talking a little bit with Tim Rees or about the situation in Haiti and also in Columbia, Robin is the creator of a little film, not maybe little, 20 minutes, but very important film called, well, it's about the Haitian Revolution, which occurred in 1804 when the Haitian people rose up and took control of their destiny, expelled the French. That was when the French held that island and held all the people on, many of the people on the island in slavery, and led by Toussaint Louverture, that government was overthrown and Haiti became the first black republic in the Americas and probably in the world. Robin did a little film on that many years ago, a beautiful little film that was an animated film that we would hope that Senator Leahy would someday take a look at. So we're turning this over to Robin. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you for your introduction, Sandy. And so, Tim, this is really exciting to have you here and to talk with you. And I remember when the when the government was changing and we had a brief exchange and I said, finally, Senator Leahy will be able to become head of the Appropriations Committee and and and his party will have more power. And so that is now happening. And yet things are so difficult that seems and so jammed up. So I guess my main question is just what do you see as the as as the Biden policy in Latin America. The two countries we're talking about today are both suffering from very strong protests in the streets every, every, every, every night, every weekend, Columbia and Haiti and they both have leaders that the people don't want. Meanwhile, in Peru, the people are probably electing a socialist president, possibly so I just wondered what if you wanted to give us an overview before we start talking about the two countries in particular. Well, thank you very much. I would like to see this film on Haiti. If I don't know how you could get it to me, but I will send you the link. I will do that. Great. Because Haiti is a country that, despite all of the misery and problems that exist there. If you've been there you really become very attached to it, and to the people of Haiti, I certainly have having been there a number of times and having very good friends in Haiti so I, I would like to see it. It's, it's still, unfortunately, early to say what this administration's policy is for Latin America they don't have yet an assistant secretary of state for the Western Hemisphere they have nominated someone, but he hasn't been confirmed yet. The only significant statements that we have heard so far are that corruption is going to be a major focus of this administration, which I think is good, but we need to have a much clearer idea of what that actually means. They have, even before President Biden was inaugurated, pledged to increase US assistance to Central America by about double, which to me was not a very smart thing to do, or at least to say, and I can expand on that. And then the Vice President went to Mexico and Guatemala for a couple of days and announced various programs or funding that they intend to provide for various purposes. And, and also, I think, not very wisely, you know, use that opportunity to tell people not to become refugees or migrants, not that we want people to. We don't, but we also recognize that for most of these people they don't have many options, and that they make that decision out of desperation. So to tell them not to, when they have the right to, and may feel that they have no alternative strikes me as kind of simplistic. In any event, you know, to summarize, I don't think this administration really has a clear idea of what its policy in either Central America or towards Columbia or even Haiti is yet. And, you know, that is something that we are pressing them on, because at the same time as I said they're asking for a lot more money. And one thing we've learned is that the amount of money that you spend in countries like this is not a measure of anything. And we have spent quite a bit, and I think the results speak for themselves. And so we need to learn some things from our own mistakes and from the mistakes of governments in these countries and not repeat them. And we do also need to recognize that, you know, what happens in these countries affects us, and, and that we have an interest in trying to address them but we also know that what happens in this country affects them. And unless we deal with those parts of the of the dynamic. We're not going to, I think, make a whole lot of progress. So we're hoping this is the disadministration, which has some very good people in it. And then he chaired a hearing yesterday with the Secretary of State, who's a, you know, exceptionally qualified person for the job. And the issue of Central America came up. And, you know, unlike the previous administration we have serious, capable, thoughtful people who we can talk to, but the problems in these countries are extremely complicated. They're being deeply rooted that are of a type that we haven't even figured out how to solve in our own country. So people should understand that these are not problems that get fixed quickly. And the necessary elements of a solution currently in my view don't exist. Unfortunately. If I could keep going on that in a way it seems to me that the situation in Venezuela is creating or the American attitude towards Venezuela is poisoning the countries, for example, the reason why the president of Haiti has been supported by the United States is because he went along with the US decision to replace the president of Venezuela and and the policies of the United States towards Venezuela. And by doing that, the president of Haiti, it sort of was is confirmed now by by the United States and for that little island that means he's there, he's there in a powerful position and yet that was when the, the protest really started in in Haiti was because the people supported Venezuela, they didn't want their president to be against Venezuela because Venezuela had been giving them oil for four years at a cheap price. And what do you think of the of the policy of a Biden policy towards Venezuela can could that pretty could it loosen up. I mean, this guy Guido, he is not a real potential president. Do you think or what do you think about that? No, I don't, I don't think he is. I think that, you know, they inherited a policy that had that by all I think objective measures has failed in Venezuela. You know, on the other hand, you know, it's hard to know what our policy should be towards Venezuela, which is, you know, run by a government that, you know, has really no legitimacy at this point. And I think that, you know, this, we now have, we're now dealing with a huge humanitarian crisis that is impacting Columbia and Peru and Ecuador. And, and I think that our most immediate focus ought to be trying to take care of people who have felt compelled to leave Venezuela and are living under extremely difficult circumstances, often caught between different gangs along the border of Columbia and Venezuela, Columbia now has at least a million and a half Venezuelans. I think that, you know, this administration really needs to think hard about how to play a constructive role in finding a solution to the problem of Venezuela and I think that it's going to be where it needs to be quite a different approach than what the Trump administration pursued that is that it's going to have to involve the participation of other countries. Certainly the Colombians. Most likely the Cubans, the Venezuelans, and, you know, and I don't think that it's going to result in Guaido becoming the president of Venezuela, but, you know, how to, how to find a way out of the situation that Venezuela is currently in, given the nature of that government. I think is could occupy, you know, anyone for probably 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the next five years but I, I think that in Haiti, you know the problem is not just about Venezuela. People, not a very good speaker. You know the, you don't waste that for. Yeah, well I've even met him in his office there but. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. All right, thank you. So I think in the case of Haiti, the, you know, the US in our view, the Trump administration. has continued what has been the practice of previous administrations, supporting governments which were elected with a small percentage of, of votes in an election which I don't think anyone could regard as being credible, and supported that person because they really didn't see any other option. And, but it seems to me anyway, President Moise has, has, has really no legitimacy he has very little support. He's been promoting this constitutional referendum which US doesn't even support. There's talk about elections and yet the conditions don't remotely lend themselves to free and fair elections. And so to me anyway the only possible way out of this situation. I've tried many times before without a whole lot of success is some kind of transitional authority comprised of Haitians from different sectors of society that can then come up with a plan for elections for a new government but I don't think those elections exist today and I think the United States needs to wash its hands of the current Haitian government, because I don't think it has any credibility or any legitimacy, and make clear that, you know, we are. Our interests are in, are on, are in what's best for the Haitian people but I think it's the dissatisfaction and that the protests and all of that have a lot more than is about a lot more than Venezuela in Haiti. And you would think the government would be anxious to provide conditions so that people wouldn't want to be coming across the border in Mexico and, and however the Haitians get here. So that would mean supporting a government that the people can accept now he, he thinks he has another year from I think February he thinks he, his term is not over until next February so it's going to be there's going to have to sit there and be pissed off for another. Well I don't know I mean the opposition in Haiti is very divided. And I mean, it's not like there's some obvious alternative. There is no other government there's no other clear leader to point to the, you know the Haitian parliament is not functioning. And these, if you ask me is, you know, a total failure. But it's a chaotic situation with daily protests blockades gang shootings, in which the police are also involved. I mean it's, it's hard to sort of point one's finger at a solution in Haiti, unfortunately, I wish that weren't the case. Because there's no place that that needs it more than Haiti, if you ask me but I, you know, Senator Leahy has spoken about this multiple times. Moise should resign. But the opposition is, is, it's not like there is, you know, a clear alternative of any type or any kind of consensus within the opposition. And so it's a little bit in that sense like Venezuela where the opposition is very divided. And Maduro has taken has exploited that. And, and so, you know, ultimately, my own view is that it's the people of these countries that is that are going to determine the future of these countries. The United States has a long history in in Central America and Haiti and, you know, it's been a very mixed history and much of it has been quite negative. And so while I think there are things that we can do, I mean, we're feeding tens of thousands of people in Guatemala right now. There's all kinds of things that we're doing in public health in Haiti, there would not be a public health system in Haiti if it weren't for the United States right now. There are many examples like that. But on the other hand, you know, our history in these countries is one in which, you know, I generally think we should not feel that it's our job to solve their problems. Because too often, we end up aligning ourselves with governments that that don't deserve our support and making excuses for them, even though they are corrupt and abusive and, and in fact part of the problem. So, you know, I think if we're going to continue to provide aid to these countries, etc, we, we need to be very careful about who we support, and in what way. I mean, I think the problem is we, we've caused the problems by basically overthrowing the one person that they elected twice, once at the beginning with 67% of the vote, namely Jean-Bertrand Barris Aristide and he's, he's in the country now running a college of medicine. So, but apparently he is absolutely not a possibility for being brought back into government. Does anyone else have a question here for for Haiti and then we'll move on to Columbia because we do have a a citizen from Columbia who I think wants to say something later. Can I, can I ask a question about Haiti? Yeah, yeah. Okay, when, when Aristide was in power, the United States as I understand it, opposed Aristide, correct? Right. Yeah, correct. Yeah, Aristide was in power twice. Yeah, and what why the United States oppose him. They opposed him at one point and they helped him return and another point. I think what's most relevant today is that Aristide does not seem to be interested in playing a meaning, a significant role in the government. And the question is, who does. But you know, what was the policy under the Clinton administration or the Bush administration at this point is not really very relevant to me anyway. And Aristide, you know, was the hope of many people. But he also wasn't everything that we would have wished. And I think it's a great event. It does not appear that he is a viable. You know, future leader for Haiti. So the question is, who is. Okay, Robin, that was my question. And did you want to turn to. Well, does anyone else. I think, yeah, Moussa. Yeah, hi, Tim. This is Chris and Moussa. I can see that. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Same here. You know, I have my hair has gotten a lot grayer. We all have grown a bit older and more dignified, I guess. Well, I can certainly say older. I just want to ask, you know, is there Moise is failure. Is there a leader in Haiti now that it offers any hope of replacing this guy, you know, being in elections or is there a leader in the making in the offering. There are, as in any society, there are outstanding people in Haiti. You know, very charismatic, very courageous, very capable people but but it takes more than that to, you know, become the leader of a country and, and there are so many competing factions and forces in Haiti that I have no idea who will emerge. And whether or not that person will be a person of integrity or of a kind of a sort that we could in good conscious support. I just have no idea that the politics of Haiti are really complicated. And, and, you know, I don't know anywhere where rumors are more prevalent than in Haiti. And where, you know, distinguishing between fact and fiction is more difficult. It's, it's an amazing place and I would encourage anyone to go there, not now because it's too dangerous. The kidnappings, the shootings, a friend of mine owns a hotel there and he listens to gunfire every night. But it's an amazing country with really outstanding people. So I have no doubt that there are people in Haiti who could, if they had the opportunity, help Haiti. You know, over time, begin to demonstrate that the government can be a positive force in the lives of the Haitian people but it never really has been. The history is that Haitian leaders use their office to enrich themselves and to hold on to power as long as they can. But, you know, what, while I can't name a particular individual because it's not. I just don't know who that would be. I have no doubt that those people exist. And it's a question of how they emerge. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. So any other questions about Haiti or. Let's move on to Columbia and I don't know if any of you have ever been to the Olaf Sun Hotel in Haiti. That's what I was wondering about. Yeah. What's the guy's name who runs it to Richard Morris. Richard Morris. Yes. Richard is a very, very close friend of mine. Whenever he comes the United States he stays with us and, and whenever I go to Haiti I stay at the Olaf Sun and, and if you ever do get to Haiti. I would strongly recommend staying there. Wonderful rooms on the second floor. Oh, it's an incredible, you should, you should Google it. It's a spectacular place that somehow survived the earthquake because it's built out of wood. And I, I went to Haiti shortly after the earthquake. In fact, I was, I had a reservation to fly to Haiti the day before the earthquake. In any event, I ended up canceling my flight. I think it must have been the day of the earthquake. And I went a few, you know, weeks later, and the Olaf Sun had survived. But that was an amazing time to be there. Yeah, and he keeps good music going on at night. He does. He does. We'll check, we'll check it out. Out, hopefully. Yeah, Google Ram R a m Haiti Ram stands for Richard Richard a Morris his, his mother, who was Haitian was a very, very revered singer and dancer. I met her during a wonderful woman I met her several times and just a gem of a person. His father was an American professor at Princeton of Latin American studies basically and although we went to school at Princeton here and and grew up here he ended up living in Haiti and and has lived there ever since and and leads one of the probably the most popular band in Haiti and runs this hotel and again you all should go there sometime. It's known by by visitors of all political persuasions. Yeah, that's wonderful. Let's let's move on to Columbia. We often try to keep this to one hour. And I'd like to introduce one Carlos Vallejo, who is from Medellin, the city where the people were playing music so beautifully. And do you want to just ask a question of of Tim. Juan Carlos. You have to demute yourself more more to more to make a question. I want to spread my good that you say at the beginning that you are not talking about the center or because I want to make this this comment is about why is no more strong the position of the United States against the situation that the Colombians are living right now. The the government is no a government is a dictatorship there. But that's that guy who the puppet that they have there is under control of a man who was the close friend of Pablo Escobar that know my words is the documents of the United States intelligence report. He's involved in business or drug still to two days ago, aircraft fall in San Andres with 500 tons of cocaine, and he was a pilot of Alvaro Uribe. And months ago in Guatemala, another aircraft with another pilot of Alvaro Uribe fall with cocaine, another 400 tons of cocaine. And in Tranquilandia in in Amazonas, when the famous laboratory of cocaine, that was the most big one in the history of the war on drugs. The helicopter that they found there was the father, the owner was the father of Alvaro Uribe and his brother. He killed many of my colleagues. I am here in the United States because him and many people isn't excited right now around the world because him. And any Colombian is trying to cross the border to call you to the United States or to escape from Colombia, because the situation there. And that people is in the streets is because they don't have future. And I saw the position of Senator Legi. That was not strong was very diplomatic. When I absolutely sure he will be more strong if the situation wasn't Venezuela or Bolivia or Nicaragua, or in Cuba. Why not about Colombia when that guy broke the Constitution broke the law, and he's because information of the United States is a man who is close friend of Pablo Escobar. Even though my words is documents, I have documents, the United States is the origin of that document. Okay, why that guy is that he is still United States supporting and only supporting. He gave he awarded him with the middle of freedom by the George George Bush government. And that's in the street in Miami, have the name, Alvaro Uribe Avenue. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you on Carlos. So, yeah, I mean, in other words, the current president is really a disciple of Uribe who has very clear connections to to drug trafficking and so on is it is does lay he is he aware of this is what is. Is there any question on the situation in Colombia. Well, first of all, you know, it is not the president of Colombia. It is true that duke is a protege of Uribe. I think that's well known. Duque was elected. There's no question about that. And his popularity is quite low at this point. And I don't think anyone can test the validity of that election. I think that he has squandered his was elected was elected with the mafia money was elected with the mafia money with me and then there's a very famous mafioso and we have the record the audio record that the at the drug for agency have records and the game money for the campaign. Okay, thank you. So I think, you know, duke has, you know, largely squandered his, his term of office. I don't think at this point that he is likely to be remembered for much of anything. The situation is one where COVID has exploded in the country. The numbers of people now dying daily is the equivalent of in this country, close to 4000 a day. So they are now in a very serious situation. They're dealing with, as I said, between one and two million Venezuelan refugees. Duque and would he be never really supported the peace agreement. In fact, they worked against it. You know, unfortunately, even the Santos administration did not use the time that it had to begin to put the peace agreement into effect quickly and so time was lost and then that was compounded by the duke administration, which sought to reverse certain parts of the peace agreement, ultimately they lost in the constitutional court but that also lost them about a year. And now, you know, not just Medellin but Kali and many other cities are the site of protests involving large numbers of people who the government has tried to disparage as being just hooligans and vandals and terrorists and you know that in fact most of them are just average citizens who are fed up with the economic situation, the lack of job opportunities for young people and the incompetence of the government basically. You know, there are many different factions now it's become a very confused situation with people with different agendas. Some of them involved in violence, some of them associated with different armed groups, most of them peaceful protesters, but the blockades that now have been done in Kali and some other places have in some sense turned people against the protests. So I don't, I don't think, unfortunately duke is capable of, of, you know, knowing how to resolve the situation like this. And for all practical purposes, I think the real question now is who's going to be the next leader of Columbia. Who's going to be the next year. Is it going to be someone on, you know, the far right or the far left or someone in the middle we have no idea but that person is going to inherit a multitude of very very difficult problems, and it really has, I think, utterly failed to, to address. And, and so, you know, while I think that the best hope for the country remains the peace agreement, as complicated, and as flawed in some ways as it is and we've seen, you know, it seems like every week, some social leader or, or member the FARC who disarmed assassinated at the same time I think that the next government has got to demonstrate that the peace agreement, you know, really has meaning and can, if implemented make life better for people. But I think that for all practical purposes, duke at this point is, is finished. Robin. Yeah, yeah, well, one question I have wondering about is does the does lehi support or does even Biden support the continued spraying of the fields of the coca fields with glyphosate. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, in the case of lehi the answer is no. The, you know, there are multiple obstacles to that to resuming the aerial spraying of glyphosate at this point first the constitutional court has not ruled in favor. And it was the court that blocked it. Some years ago. In addition, duke has so many other problems that if he starts spraying. I think he's going to only make a situation worse. And, and so I would be surprised if he ultimately gets to the point where he has not only the legal authority, but the decision to do that. But we know that that's what they want to do because the numbers of hectares under production of coke coke is has skyrocketed. And, and we also know that other forms of forced eradication that is people on the ground is very dangerous a lot of people have been killed from landmines or very seriously wounded. And so, and a lot of these areas now are quite inaccessible. So their, their view is that aerial eradication really is the only way. The proposition has been from years ago and continues to this day that if you don't have meaningful security and public services and other opportunities for people to earn income. If you just destroy their one source of income, you're only going to make the situation worse. And, and we have not seen yet the kind of concerted effort to put in place those types of programs recognizing it's a hugely difficult, costly, complicated problem. But no, we don't support that. Tim, how many American bases are there in Colombia. I have no idea. I have nine military bases in coincidentally all the military bases around the coca plantations very coincident when a drugs informant agency was not in Colombia and the military bases were not in Colombia. The production of cocaine was very low, but when the military bases came to Colombia, and the drug informant agency skyrax the skyrax the cocaine production, the product in the foreign policy, the world is a big mistake. We need to start to talk about legalization. President Santos was saying that for many, many years to legalize for me it's very painful to see here in the United States I talked with Robin about that. It's very painful is selling marijuana plant planting marijuana in Colombia, they found a two plants of marijuana in your home, you are for jail, 18 years, very easy. 18 years for for jail for plan on marijuana is don't guys selling a marijuana was mocking marijuana, go to jail, and here nothing he be open business I was in Canada. And I saw a guy is important marijuana from Colombia and I said how it's possible you put marijuana from Colombia it's private that is, there's no private, we will under the black market we can find everything. Bring marijuana from Colombia and in Colombia is a crime and here nothing happened. That's the same way. I mean, why would not make a legalization of the cocaine and the drugs, and the Colombians put the dead people, and here the people is a lot of money making business with drugs. I mean, I think it's really very strange that there's so much talk about marijuana legalizing marijuana here we've totally forgotten about cocaine and somehow I have the feeling no one is is snorting cocaine anymore because it's not talked about but apparently there is a lot still coming into the country. I think there is hope of moving towards legalization of of cocaine as a way to stop the war on drugs and the way it's manifested in Colombia. You know, I really have no idea but you know it. We have seen, I think, increasingly people recognizing that the way we have gone about trying to address this issue has been a failure. I mean, you were seeing now states legalize at least possession of marijuana and and the use of marijuana in certain amounts. That wasn't politically possible, even 10 years ago so it certainly strikes me as, as not far fetched to think that at some point people will wake up and decide that, you know, we have to approach this differently because clearly the way we've gone about it has cost a huge amount of money and produced virtually nothing in the way of results at least that's what it seems to me. Any other questions about remember what happened. Sorry, remember what happened with the alcohol. Remember what happened with the alcohol. What the same, the same story. Okay, let's let someone else Megan after would please go ahead. Yeah hi Tim thank you for giving us some insights into Columbia tonight. I've been there three times since the peace treaty and you know worked with the government and local universities in in Colombia. The peace treaty but this new round of protests is very frightening to me and the reaction with government is is just chilling. My friend one Carlos speaks to me all the time about the terrible background of this current government but I just would like your opinion I have heard your thoughts on do okay but I was just trying to keep up with the news and that he was even threatening to put Southern Columbia under military governments. I mean that was on a sort of a Amazon watch website so I was wondering is, is there, I know that us aid by the way to is looking at more investment. I'll just combine my question so one. Is there any threat of military government in the south of Columbia, and to what kind of investments, could us aid make that you think would be helpful. Thank you. I also read that there was talk about imposing martial law and part of Columbia. I don't know if that's accurate. You know I think that would be a huge mistake. Columbia actually has something of a democratic tradition, compared to a lot of countries, and, and I think that would backfire terribly. Ironically, the Vice President of Columbia and I are going to speak tomorrow, and I, you know, I'm going to ask her about that, because when I read that I thought, you know, on top of all the other mistakes they've made. I think that would be really a colossal blunder. So, I do want to know whether or not that is something they're seriously contemplating. You know, the resistance programs, you know, they, they, it's not like we sort of hand cash to people. We don't do that. We provide funds that go through different NGOs, local entities, some us some local through USA ID. Some of it is focused on, you know, development type programs. Some of it is water and sanitation programs some of it is is focused on helping to support indigenous communities and indigenous organizations and Afro Colombian organizations. Some of it goes to human rights groups. Some of it goes to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is Office in Columbia. This is for agriculture alternative agriculture development programs. Some of it's for biodiversity programs which Senator Leahy has sort of emphasized because of the incredible biodiversity that exists in Columbia. We have the whole other piece of our assistance program which has been for supporting the Attorney General's office, training and supporting the police. You know, we have, we still have some program, providing assistance to the military, although it's quite small now. So it, it kind of covers a wide spectrum. We're in a situation where, you know, we've been in the minority for quite a few years so we haven't been able to single handedly determine how much or for what purposes our aid is provided. And then we in the majority because, you know, it's a, we're in the majority of the extent that we have an evenly divided Senate of 5050 with the Vice Presidents one vote. So, there are aspects of our assistance to Columbia that we don't support. There are also aspects that we do support. Okay. Yeah, because of the current that all the escalation of this government to, you know, you can hear me okay I'm sitting on stable and sort of cutting them out of it. Yeah sorry I'm in a bad place here can you hear me okay. Yeah, right now. Yeah, forgive me. So my question is this, if the human rights situation were to deteriorate further, given, you know, the current signs, would the US begin to like maybe diminish our support for Columbia, or bring in the Leahy amendment against some of the human rights violations of the military. There are really two provisions that apply in this situation, both of which were written by Senator Leahy there there there's the Leahy law which applies globally to all foreign security force units that are involved in human rights abuses and then there are, then there are specific conditions on a portion of our assistance to the armed forces of Columbia. Both are there only because of Senator Leahy the conditions on our assistance to Columbia are more specific. You can read them if you if you want. And they require that the Secretary of State certified that these conditions have been met in order for a portion of our assistance to be provided. And so, whether or not that certification can be made is a function of actions by the Colombian government and a determination by the Secretary of State. And, you know, we're going to, we're in the process of drafting the appropriations bill for next year. And so that, like everything else will be one of the issues that we're going to want to look at. In the context of what's going on in Colombia today, but you know the, we used to provide hundreds of millions of dollars to the Colombian Army. Today we provide about 30 million. And so, the amount of leverage that we have is much less. You know, every conversation we have with the State Department I spoke with our Ambassador to Columbia for about an hour and a half yesterday. And as I said I'm going to talk to the, the Vice President tomorrow focuses on the way they have responded to these protests. The reasons for these protests and the conduct of their police and military forces, and just the overall strategy for dealing with a situation which seems to be unraveling in Colombia. For all the reasons that we've been discussing. Let me say one small thing to Tim. Small thing, yeah. Tomorrow when you talk with her, she had her brother in jail. He lost you there. Transport cocaine, the brother of the vice president, her brother was in jail in Florida, because he was the chief of the mules cocaine he was in jail for that reason. She paid $250,000 for release. She had her husband make business with Memo Fantasma, who is a most of Columbia who is hiding in Spain. Her husband was making business with him. Okay. Juan Carlos why don't you email Tim about these details because you know when it's hard to make it stick when you're just saying it so please do that. My, my, my point is that, in a sense, the US government has to be friends with the Colombian government because we want them to be a bulwark against Venezuela and in fact, there are some emails that I've read recently that's the question why is the US sending signatures to Columbia, could it be that there's a plan for an attack on Venezuela do you think there's any, any justification of those rumors. I don't. I don't. I think that's the last thing that President Biden has in mind. Well good. Thank you. Any other questions I have one more but I think we're probably running out of time Robert so it'd be great if you but I think it's good that you have another question. Yes, okay just one last question. This is about a guy named Alex Saab, who is a Venezuelan diplomat who the United States took often off of an airplane in Cape Verde. He went. I think in the last month, and he is still in prison in Cape Verde, and he was okay he was a Venezuelan diplomat going to Iran to arrange for food supplies to come to Venezuela. Anyway, we're, we are doing exactly what the head of Belarus did recently where it made a plane land and they took a, an activist off of the plane, and it seems tortured him and, and so on. We, we've all read about that, but we haven't read about the fact that the United States government has done something similar in holding a person in jail with no real charges against him. Are you aware of this case. I don't, I don't think I am when did this happen. In the last couple of weeks, several people were down there pleading for his release. And one wonders about what is our US power over Cape Verde it's just a bunch of islands there off of Africa. I will send you the link because we've written and I'm sorry I don't remember the date of it. We wrote it up in toward freedom, our media organization here in what was his, what was his role in the government, do you know. Well, he was just a Venezuelan diplomat on his way to Iran his name is Alex sob s a a b. And he is currently in jail in Cape Verde. And I don't think I do know about him but I'll see if I can find out anything. Okay, I will send you the link that we have about him. Okay. I will thank you any any other responses or questions. No, I think that all of this though this is Sandy talking merits further discussion actually, because I think one thing I want to ask was too complicated tonight but I wonder if Tim might be available at some other time. People know that much about this peace agreement not in the United States. So I would like to know more about that and its failure or its success, but maybe we could ask him to do a similar. I don't know what we call it program I guess in a couple in a month or so, or a couple months would that be all right to explore this. The University of Notre Dame is has a has a project which is periodically reporting on sort of the status of the peace agreement in Colombia. And what is what is being implemented what isn't what is working what isn't. I think the US government is actually supporting that they're conducting their own sort of analysis, as the P as time goes along here of just how well the peace agreement is being implemented. And you might want to check and see if you can find that I they send me their reports periodically. I have little time to read anything but I, I think that they are a pretty good source of information. I think it is fair to say though that by any objective standard. The peace agreement is in trouble. Yeah. And, you know, it was a very ambitious agreement to begin with. I think Santos deserves a lot of credit for, you know, against a lot of odds, pulling it off, but, but I also think that it remains to be seen whether or not it really produces what people hope for. Well, thank you so much, Tim. So Robin, do you want to conclude I would like to announce that next week to people's law school will be presenting on state government what to expect from it what it is. And that will be attended by Ted Kenny who's one of the Attorney Generals within that office. And I really want to thank you, Tim for being with us tonight and all the work that you have done with us for Vicki, and all the work that you've done with the people of our state. So thank you very much Robin, do you want to conclude. Yeah, and I say thank you also and I will send you a link to our animated film of patient history. Please do. It's wonderful. It's absolutely wonderful. No, I really look forward to that. And also the link to the case of Alex Saab, which now I just look at our, our link on toward freedom and he has been in jail since June 12 last year. So this is not a new situation, although we are writing about it as a new situation so I, but I'd love to have your response to that is there any. I'm not, I'm not familiar with it. So he was arrested by the previous by the Trump administration's Justice Department. Oh, I guess you're, yeah, I guess I just, I need to, I need to learn a bit more. Okay, I mean this would be, I would hope an opportunity for Biden to make a change from what the Trump administration did so hopefully. Well, I think there's a lot of things we want Biden to do differently than what the previous administration did. It's a list that would probably go. Go about a mile long. So I'm not sure how close to the top this guy is but we'll have to look at it. Okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you, Robin. Yeah, thank you and thanks everyone. Bye bye. Good to see you. Same here.