 So what was the significance of the Trump presidency? What did it betoken in terms of the world order? You know, it's both unbelievably dangerous and also kind of very predictable even though it wasn't predicted in the sense that you know all of these pre-existing forces were at work and and and he just followed this path and and and so he's like just kind of this logical outcome of this worship of wealth and reality TV Rising racism and xenophobia, you know all of it mixed in that's why in my speech today I compared him to the fatberg under London's sewer system because he's sort of like this thing Oh, there's like all that is disgusting in the culture just kind of Glomming together in the form of this, you know this guy, you know, he's he's just like filling that suit with all of it and and And you know, it's it sometimes it's just It seems almost funny that it's not at all funny. I mean what he's doing right now You know as we speak Puerto Rico is is Without power without water in the midst of a heat wave without communications He's tweeting about the fact that they have a big debt they have to pay off and positioning it to privatize their electricity system and And so we've got that And this is consistent with the fact that his whole presidency is you know, I've called it a corporate coup It is just the mask is off, right? So none of this is new, you know corporate power in US elections and US politics This is not a new phenomenon that Trump invented But he's just taken the mask off, right? So you've got you know the CEO of Exxon as Secretary of State You've got five Goldman Sachs executives running the economy and then you've got Trump and his family who are this sort of Family of fully commercialized brands profiting day in day out from the presidency Let's talk about another great American political brand the Clintons at the same time that Bernie Sanders is bringing together a coalition around Universal health care in a quite meaningful sense Here Clinton is doing a book tour. I think she $40 million potentially from this new book. She's published. I'm very glad that's not my publisher anymore Who are you angry? I shouldn't Donald Trump or Hillary very nice people. Who am I angry or at? Yeah? Who's who's who's who personally, you know, you know in terms of your physiology, who do you feel more let down by? Honestly, I think both of them are exactly who they have been for For as long as I can remember. I'm not surprised by what Hillary is doing and You know one would hope that there would be some lessons learned real lessons learned I mean she's written this book Which is supposedly about what happened and what went wrong and there's all kinds of blame to go around and she takes a little First off and she names various mistakes And various moments and the Russians and Comey and Bernie She she does not Fundamentally in any way understand that she did that that people are hurting out there and that her brand of politics the politics that That that she represents represented as secretary of state the politics that her husband represented as president Produced this moment is part of what produced this moment. It did not does not meet people's needs. It has overseen a Rise in precarious work and collapse of living standards It can't get the job done on all of these different fronts and that's what creates such fertile Ground for demagogues to step in with these completely fake solutions Fake economic populism very real racism mix it all together and stir So I think Trump is who Trump has always been you know when he was a New York real estate developer. He And that's all he was Used race-baiting to advance his career took out full-page ads attacking You know young men who have been exonerated for the crime that they were accused of this essential part five So he he he is who he's always been but with more power and so is Hillary Clinton So I'm not mad at them for being themselves You know, I think I'm more worried that Democrats a lot of key Democrats can't seem to learn this mess this lesson So we had quite a different outcome in this country to the US over there Bernie Sanders lost the nomination Hillary Clinton one Meanwhile over here Jeremy Corbyn won two leadership races. He may now it seems be the next prime minister There's a conversation going on over there in Labour Party conference where you spoke today Between the moderates and the left of the party, which is the mainstream of the party similar conversation the US different balancer powers To what extent can these people be in a coalition for transformation? Is it not possible because they're not interested in it and furthermore They don't seem to have the the social base, which is even of much use Um Are they our friends the likes of Hillary Clinton or Hillary Ben or Chuck Romano? Are they are they part of changing the world? I Think it depends if they can change. I mean if all they're going to do is Fail to learn from the lessons of the past And try to drag this project to some idea of the safe center, which is not safe It is not safe from an economic or ecological perspective in that its policies do not fundamentally address These very urgent crises that that we face and they're not safe Electrally, I mean this is the whole point Hillary Clinton had this air of inevitability about her because she was seen as this supremely safe candidate who had all the money all the backing all the you know boxes ticked right and You know this incredibly focused group safe center try to make everybody a just teeny bit happy but not too happy campaign and It fell flat. I mean she did win the electoral vote, but she she did not manage to to energize her base and in key states Far too large part of her constituency stayed home So it's not that Trump was elected on this wave of anger and hatred I mean he did not have a huge mandate, right? This is why he's constantly going on and on about how you know There was vote stealing and all of this it drives him mad He did not win the electoral vote. He does not have a landslide victory Hillary Clinton lost the election She did not energize her base and she most certainly did not reach into Constituencies that have just tuned out from electoral politics because it doesn't offer them any and in the United States That constituency is 90 million people, you know people spend so much time and this is I think is one of the things that You know we in North America really need to learn from what you did here in the UK And specifically what momentum did and just not accepting the logic that you know that these people aren't worth Reaching because they don't vote or this you know, this writing isn't worth going after I'm writing, you know that Because you know we can't win they went they went after traditional non-voters and managed to galvanize them So there's all of this sort of minute debate go that goes on about you know How much of Trump's white working-class base can be peeled away and to me that's so much less interesting Then how do you speak to the 90 million Americans who are who didn't vote? Thank you Nami. Cheers