 to 4.30 p.m. session of the 2019 Open Simulator Community Conference. In this session we are happy to introduce the creativity panel. Our speakers today are Maria Korolov, Bryce Johannes, Kisma Riedling, and Reiner Schneeberger. I'll briefly introduce our panel speakers today and please check out the website found at conference.opensimulator.org for speaker bios, details of the session, and the full schedule of events. Maria Korolov is a published author and covers artificial intelligence for CIO magazine and cyber security for CSO online. She's also the editor of hypergrid business since 2009. Bryce Johannes, known in world as Han Boshi, is the media manager at Nuna Art Gallery, a software developer at Xero Solutions, and author of When People Unite. Kisma, aka Julia Cereal Dreaming, is the co-creator of One Biennial and organizes the hypergrid hoppers an event somewhat similar to HG Safari. And Reiner Schneeberger in world as Art Blue is the creator of Art Blue and controlled by an AI owl made by Tyrell Wayland. The session is being live streamed and recorded. So if you have any questions or comments during the session, you may send your tweets to atopensimcc with the hashtag OSCC19. Welcome, everyone. And let's begin the session. Well, thank you, Scott, for introducing us. I really appreciate it having been here this conference. And the fact that you guys are all have us here to talk about art. What we're going to do is the three artists here on this panel are going to introduce themselves and talk a little bit about what they see as the most important aspect of what it means to be an artist and creator in OpenSim. And I'm hoping we can start with Bryce, also known as Han Boshi in in world because he was introduced first. And that's a good random place to start. Random is good. Han Boshi is the pronunciation. It's alright. It's Chinese. I'm part of a project. The Nuna Art Gallery is a virtual art gallery, opening tomorrow, in fact, on the third rock grid. So it's something worth checking out. That's my background in terms of where I'm coming from from the creativity perspective. I think when we talk about creativity, and what's important, I think it's important to break it down into a few different aspects of creativity. Starting with just really quickly. Where a lot of people come into virtual reality, creativity and creation is just experimentation. And I think the OpenSim environment is important there. Because compared to established grids, there's a low cost of entry. And the in world tools certainly make it easier to get into that. When you become more expert at design, you get and you go down the commercialization track, or the art track, more of a public representation of creativity. And I think there's an enormous opportunity for OpenSim here to serve as curator of that kind of art and creativity for the good of society, but also for the understanding of what virtual reality can do. As part of that, it's important aspect of creativity is the ability to be able to share and find that content. So creation is important. And lastly, creative in terms of problem solving, creative problem solving, what problems can virtual reality solve? And that's as creative as the art aspect, where and how and what role can virtual reality have in our society to bring us together. And OpenSim again is huge here, in a sense that the we talked about some like Second Life, they've got they've now they're pretty narrowed niche. OpenSim can be just about anything we want. And there's a lot of room for for creative experimentation on new ways of using the platform. All right. That's my take. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And you've picked my ideas of how I feel about creativity in OpenSim spot on. Kisma, would you like to introduce yourself and explain what you think that OpenSim means for creativity? Thank you, Maria. Yeah, sure. I have been involved with art communities digitally, not just OpenSim, but of course, Second Life. So I'm going to bridge both of those. And in real life, I'm an artist. So I'm getting involved in a digital way or a virtual way with my art has been quite exciting. I agree with Han, I agree with you that the reason why we come into OpenSim's to build and create our artists because it's the sky is truly the limit. We have the ability to explore and experiment without that cost heavy factor hanging over our heads like we do in places like Second Life. And we can just go crazy in our explorations of art and we aren't limited to just 2D art. We come in and we begin to explore the 3D aspect of it. And then of course, marry together 2D and 3D in very immersive ways. And I think that a lot of artists yet a lot of artists have not yet understood the true freedom we have in OpenSim's for our creative artistic expression. I own the Surreal Art Gallery in Second Life, and we are bringing that to our HG Hoppers Server Sim in Craftworld. And that will be opening in January 2020. So we're looking forward to that. And then of course, Art Blue and I work on many, many art projects that merge together the different virtual OpenSim worlds. And we bring it into real life. So we're sort of we consider ourselves to be multi dimensional because we truly are in many different platforms in virtual worlds, and then we're in real life as well. So I don't see a distinction between virtual worlds and real worlds when it comes to art. I believe that they really do move back and forth. And that's sort of why I'm here today. So thank you. Well, thank you for joining us. And now I'd like to ask Art Blue to talk about his experiences with what OpenSim means for art and creativity. Yeah, thank you, Maria. Thank you, Scott, for the nice introduction. Scott said I'm controlled by an AI and owl that might be right. The owl must hide under my big head, maybe in the fridge, I don't know. At least I have a good excuse for making mistakes and bringing things not as good to the audience as I would like it. But creativity, how to get this thing fixed? What does it mean? That was the introduction, the question. And I thought about this, how to explain it. I'm now 62 years. About three years ago, I wrote my memoirs. I was thinking, when did I start to become creative? So I put the following story in my book. When I was in third class at elementary school, so about at the age of eight, I faked the signature of my mother for having been absent at school. I declared myself ill. I had not the four sides that the teacher will see that I was writing, that it was the writing of an eight year old boy faking his mother's name. Later, I got smart and let computers fake what I like to be seen as truth. I went to random art to use control statistics, creating abstract art like grass in the wind, which have been just lines put on a paper with slightly different angles and lengths sticking out from the base. Let's call this baseline the Earth. Now I focus in my art more on ideas of personality capture and emulation. Can the human brain be simulated to produce art that varies when you see it? So its spectators sees it different. We know it can be done. Years ago, it would have been impossible. We are in a simulated world. We have an avatar sitting here, some got their head with the fridge where on the head. So let's see who listens carefully and wears the fridge within the next minute. What's them? I have a gift. Why I say this all? Why I reach into the past because I got to know that others before me had similar ideas. Even art in the fridge is very common and to place a fridge on a head as well. I'm sure many remember art on heads in Second Life. Basically, everything was placed on one's head in these festivals. They have been great. So question is what is transformative art? What is plain copy? I know Maria, you figured this question out in your survey. Maybe we'll come back later on this. Well, thank you for those thoughts. I would also like to say a couple of words about creativity. I've been a nonfiction journalist for most of my life. Oh, a nonfiction. I tried. But earlier this year, I started writing. Now the reason I first came into the virtual world was because of the idea that everyone here has mentioned that you can create things from scratch that are absolutely amazing. You can build an entire world around yourself and share it with other people. And to me, that was just this most awesome thought ever. And I really fell in love with it. And I couldn't get enough of what I would like to create something like this. And starting this year, I've started writing fiction based in virtual worlds, trying to kind of get a handle on this idea that virtual reality isn't about just playing a game or just playing a character, or looking at something in 3D. Virtual reality is about giving, expanding the possibilities that you have to create, to create everything, to create your life, to create your relationships, to create ideas and movements and businesses and whatever you want to create, beyond geographical and physical boundaries that we're stuck with in our daily life. And this is something that I'm trying to express through my fiction writing, and that I've kind of been trying to get to through hybrid business as well. And for me, OpenSim right now is kind of the leading edge of that because the creativity that it makes possible through this super low cost, flexible platform that is almost easy enough for anyone to use, has just been amazing and has really brought a lot of joy to my life for the past 10 years. And I'm hoping that our audience feels the same. And that that's why they're here. So we have a few questions that I would like to ask you guys. And the first one is, we're looking back at a decade in OpenSim right now, or at least I'm looking back a decade in OpenSim, because that's how long I've been here. And I'm hoping that you can talk about how you've seen OpenSim a change over those past 10 years, in terms of the creativity and the art that you see here, whether it's community, the technology, or, or other things that you're seeing as having changed while you've been here. And is there anybody who would like to take that on first? Okay, I will. I've only been in OpenSim since about 2015. And I came in specifically for the art creativity aspect. So I don't have that decade of experience you're wanting us to look at. However, in just the four years that I have been creating in OpenSim, I can say I have noticed a change, a definite change. Of course, mesh has come in much more prevalently into OpenSim, but also scripting seems to have gotten better. And working with textures and primes has become a little easier. Avatars have definitely gotten way better. And today are comparable to those you might wear in technology sims like Second Life. You can see I'm donning one of those I'm your, I'm your, what do you call it, your Bada boom, girl. For, for OSCC. But if you were to meet me on Craft World, you'd see this little crazy weird thing running around. So we have that ability to really live our fantasy and our creativity also as avatars. I do feel all in all that each year we are seeing greater diversity and better technology here in Open Sims. And the only thing that I feel is truly lacking is a real cohesive community. We, you know, we do have one in places like Second Life, and I'm sorry to keep bringing up Second Life, but we all know that sort of prototype for Open Sims also. But I do trust that we will continue to evolve. Open Sims will continue to evolve to evolve. I mean, after all, look at how much easier it has gotten for us to hypergrade hop. That right there is an example of how far we are moving in leaps and bounds. So I think there has been a drastic change. If I may just just build on top of that a little bit, I think in the early days of Open Sim, I think there was a greater emphasis on quantity over quality, just to make sure that there was a broad selection of different objects and clothing created and available to people who are joining these communities. And so there was a there was a rush, a lot of good, I mean, there's a lot of good work, but it was it was quantity over quality. And that has and for for a lot of the early years set the standard for and the expectation for what Open Sim looked like. And with particularly with tools with mesh becoming more common, the blender getting used much more often, you're seeing now a transition where quality is starting to make a greater impression upon people in Open Sim. Do you think that's true? Everyone else? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because we're seeing it just go to some of the incredible servers. They have their themed landscapes and they're gorgeous. They're absolutely gorgeous. Whereas in the beginning, when I would hop around, it was just little basic prim box buildings. Do you know what I'm saying? And so yeah, I think we're really seeing an evolution taking place away from quantity into some serious quality. I guess I have to say that I agree with you in terms of even the basics like the welcome areas of grids. It used to be a lot of like default starter regions that that were almost blank or had a couple of default freebie stories in there. And now they're becoming really, really, really, really welcoming works of art for themselves that grid owners have put a lot of time and effort into or their community to put a lot of time and effort into. And it's just a joy to travel around and see them. Yeah, it's a matter of first impressions, right? With that old saying, you've got to make that first impression that this, this is serious, this is serious to virtual reality. This is not, there are sandboxes for people to get into it. But virtual reality open sim is a serious player. And we're also seeing some multi grid festivals, because I've been writing about them, where people come from all over open sim to participate in festivals on individual grids. Craft has had quite a few recently. And the art events that are happening, like the Numa gallery opening that's coming up, are shared with the entire open sim community, because we have the hyper grid, because people can teleport in and shared with their friends. And I really enjoy seeing that. Yeah. Our next question is, what do you want to see happen next? So we can talk about the technology, we can talk about the community. I personally would like to see better event sharing so people can find out what's happening everywhere else. And with Google Plus, having gone the way of the dodo, we've lost some of the really vibrant communities we had for hyper grid travelers, like open sim virtual and hyper grid travelers. Oh, is it hyper grid safari? And in some of them have moved over to Facebook, but nowhere near the scale that we had before, and me, we and discord are closed platforms that are hard to use to reach out to the general public who aren't already members of those communities. So I love seeing open sim world stepping up with with their event directory. And it's now easier to follow and easier to share those events in world and online. And I would like to see more of that. Yeah, I think I think my ideas on this overlap a lot of what you're saying, it's more for me, it's largely about just better curation of the really best content that open sim has to offer. And I think, I think the two hard professional artists in our in our panel here are going to be particularly keen on this. But how do how do we make sure that the best content, the the really strong art content that's being created is available and and accessible and people know how to get to in in the hyper grid. Industry, how do you how do you get that up to people and help people find where it is? Yeah, see that is I think that's one of the main challenges. And I know we're going to look at that question a little bit later, but I think that's one of the main challenges is how to get information out there to people. I don't use discord, you know, I'm one of those freaks that don't use it. I don't like it. Because it's just one more social media function and I can't handle all the social media functions. So when I look at what we're dealing with now and and you know what I would love to see happen is the same thing as both of what both of you are saying the unification between our communities and enable enabling that cross communic I don't know I don't know the proper words for but you know what I'm saying making one I don't know if it's a hub that we need which how do we do that? How do we create a hub or one location where all the information can be found, especially here in open Sims. You know we look at places like we look at places like Second Life they have that you know it's it's a it's a closed environment right so every single member logs on and they can go into the data bank and they can search all the different activities that are going on grid wide that we don't we do not have here in open Sims because there are so many servers and there are servers we don't even know about that we will probably never know about that are awesome servers and and we don't get the information about them. So that to me is one of the biggest challenges. How do we bring us all together? How do we get out there? Oh my god we've got some incredible artistic installations here that would blow your mind come and see it. How do you get that out out to everybody? You know that's hon that's that's the biggest one I think right there. One of the things that artists should talk to their grid owners about is something that Fred Beckerson is working on. He's the guy behind Outworlds and Dream Grid and he's working on a hyper grid search function that will be automatically part of the Dream Grid installer which is like an easy installer anyone can set up an open sim server on a home computer but also is available to other grids as well. Now this is very much in development so I think that this is something that content creators and event organizers may want to check out and weigh in on so that we don't have like a million things called primitive showing up in the search making it useless but that's like organized in a way that's valuable to users. And the other thing is as a journalist I always think of journalism as the answer to you know all the world's problems of course but in this case having an art journal or even an art journalist or an art blogger somebody who goes around and finds the community. Artists often are loath to talk about themselves they want to sit there and do their art and if people come see it well if people will come see it they will find it somehow. Oh no they don't find it and somebody who's like really passionate about art and who develops that the sources in the community and finds out what's going on and then becomes a place where people can send tips to them to tip them off about things going on and they could come and take pictures and showcase that to everybody would be a really really wonderful thing and I'm not the person to do it I don't have a background in art and I'm covering like like everything else that's happening in OpenSam on top of a day job I can't take on this project but if anybody out there in the audience is watching this or is watching it and replay you know years later and you want to do this it's a great way to learn about virtual art and digital art and really meet the people who are going to be building the art of the future so if you care about art this is one place you can go to meet artists and find out what's going on and share it with the world and if you do it on a blog or on a website I'll promote it on hybrid business I'll run your articles or I'll run links to it or tweet it out and then of course there's social media and other places you can go to have to develop an audience for that kind of writing as well and Art Blue, Han do you guys have any ideas about what what you would like to see happen in OpenSim? Oh yeah now you're asking me and you know if I'm asked I cannot stop to talk so you're in big trouble now yeah what to add on all the nice words I have heard now I think one point can be added OpenSim allows more than other platforms you can go beyond the borders you can put hundred thousand blades of grass just to take an example onto the ground or in the air which you never could do elsewhere else so somewhere else and let visitors come and speak about your grass installation. I remember a work by Frivi Ling she was the first to read more prims as it was allowed in second life. She made a world record she was so happy Guinness Book of Records an artist who went beyond the borders of prims and we have NPCs in OpenSim running which is a great thing if you are creative in using them so the borders are limitless it's open source you can if you are a coder can add a lot of additional things you can make it known I think this we should add said how can we make OpenSim more known. The google cardboard which we introduced today has 15 million installations 15 million and it costs five to ten dollars so it can be even folded as flat as a smartphone is and when I go to a museum director or some who is in the classical art and I show this then it's like a child eating first-time ice cream they cannot believe oh that's immersive art that's digital art oh aha oh I didn't think so as when the chair turns and the head goes up and down you see oh aha and now you have a book about this now I understand it yeah so it comes by seeing by doing and it's difficult that's very difficult to bring a manager or a kid or a user a simple user to open sim because there's so many functions the menu in firestorm avoid to click there don't click there be aware that only here you can click and else you have a problem so the viewer is a problem for starters it's not like windows it's not that you say oh I know it from office yeah you have to learn it fresh so you have to clear your mind you have to empty it first and then you can start with this viewer so you need passion and a normal user who just want to see something has not passion it's just okay I try it and then it has to be fun so I think that is a point we have to give more thoughts about so fewer development we always speak about open sim but we need something to be inside this data and this has to fit to people yeah not to us because we know it now yeah so I stop I think it's it's enough from my side I'm with totally with you on the viewer issue I think Philip roaddale said that using an open sim viewer or using a second life viewer thing thing is it like playing a piano because you've got your two hands doing two totally different things like so your left hand is pushing one set of buttons and your right hand is pushing another set of buttons in order to do like even the most basic things and I know whenever I switch keyboard I am unable to move around or look look at anything for like a few minutes until like my hands are just to do the new control and that's after being here for 10 years so and and so on a related note um so what about the future of digital or virtual art in general um so so beyond the you know specific open sim things where do you think that virtual art itself is going to go are we going to see things like like like immersive experiences that are richer more detailed longer narrative based more more like like uh like living a slice of life as opposed to looking at one thing something that the virtual reality or virtual worlds makes possible that you can't do in traditional art do you see that as as something to see more of uh in world oh yeah I have a real dream with that Maria I I dream of entire sims that are just one huge immersive landscape where you're walking into the entire uh a creative center of someone's mind and it's not just walking around a landscape and there's a point of interest over here that's some art or there's a point of interest over there with some art but the whole entire thing surrounding you embracing you is art and you know I mean I guess we kind of did that uh art art blue and I kind of did that with the one biannale we did in 2018 because we had eight servers I think it was our joined together and each one of them was an immersive environment and so you went from you went in a circle and then came into the center and it was just this immersive uh art experience but I see that I would love to see that um continue and and the other thing and then I'll close my mouth because I know I talk a lot too is I would love to see um I honestly would love to see some of those art servers become VR experiences I am I am pro VR I know that we just went through a presentation that was really anti VR but I think we have to open our minds and realize that here in OpenSams if we hold open minds and experiment and explore we're the ones that can bring forth an entire new generation of experience digital virtual experience for people so I I would like to see that happen I'd like to see a VR um an entire VR server art server um not just the faked VR project that that uh we just completed which is phenomenal but an entire server so okay if I may add something very short about this discussion VR and um first person for you and you are alone it's not a social environment that is true if you look on the cardboard or on a on a headset of Oculus or so mostly but there are applications or let's say um institutions or locations uh combining this technology to a new way of social interaction and I have one example that's the imaginarium or engineering I've maybe I've mistyped it and the other is a video it's called singularity it's a shooter thing so I have two extremes here so first it's just an artistic experience where you walk in a sort of artistic um Minecraft world uh with others and the other is a group shooter experience where you fight for life for points and they expand this company behind has now locations all over the world and they are fully outbooked so it runs and this is a point that brings me to a product that was once existing it's called lively I'm not sure if anyone remembers lively from Google uh they tried it to make a sort of mass avatar land or whatever and then they stopped because it was not commercially successful uh but if one of the big players steps again into this market avatar based avatar avatar driven environments then things will change then we will not discuss is it something it's just a question how to use it so uh we have to wait on such a player who takes it over and then um and then um we will see how it goes uh I I share the thoughts in some ways that VR headsets are now not a way we can go on as artists because you will be alone there you just see your artistic work or maybe you can share it with with someone in range you know you know wireless learn around you so it's not enough to to have it similar to an open sim environment just to yeah just to expand a little bit on some of the the points there I think well anything that anything that in terms of what we we this stuff that we're talking about are big ambitious projects right yeah right then and and that the attempts that have been done have not been quote commercially viable but they're so what we need to do is have I don't know the the ambition to take these on despite the fact that there's no commercial model for them you take the project I'm probably familiar with is the Nuna art gallery the virtual art gallery this is five floors of of real world art you know from from Michelangelo to Bansky where you can walk around you look at the art there's a there's a virtual guide who will walk you through the art and talk to you about it non-player characters all done non-profit all the stuff it's hyper grid access so you just it's just available you can take what you want there's there's no model there to make money from it but it it expands a purpose two purposes mainly it it demonstrates the potential of virtual reality and to make teaches art for people who might not have access to it educational yeah so um I want to somebody in the comments pointed out the dreams the dream gate viewer scene gate viewer which is a slimmed down viewer that the idea is to get people in easily to to attend events so I want to give a shout out to them I think I ran one of their press releases a few days ago and I also wanted to add that you guys are creating a new visual experiential language here in open sim a language that will be the foundation of whatever will happen in virtual reality later on because the components that we have here in open sim and in second life are the fundamentals are directly transferable to a virtual reality environment so which is one of the things I find so exciting about open sim is that a new language is being written in front of us a visual architectural and experiential language of symbols and experiences and how things interact with one another that will eventually turn into the way the world lives so I'm like really excited to see that happening um and so my last question because we're getting close to the end is what do you think are the biggest challenges facing art and creativity in open sim and we've already talked about the communication issue um do you have any other things that you see as as needing to be addressed and maybe um people can you know once we bring them up that people can start thinking about some solutions you know I the one challenge I see and um and art feel free to uh like say oh yeah or no um because he and I work so hand in hand with with art projects but you know there's so many incredible people in this world I mean in the world and more and more are becoming aware of digital virtual realities um as a venue for their art um and and we see like Han you even brought up that uh in second life there's a lot of artists there and it's sort of a little niche you know um they've they've they put themselves into a corner just a little bit but it's only because of limitations and so art and I have been working so hard to expose those people to open sims to broaden them to widen them and there's such fear there's such fear in a lot of those people those artists in coming into open sims and I I I think it's because and I might be totally off on this one but I think it's because they feel nobody will ever see their creations and they're doing it all for nothing now as artists we we paint we create not for anybody else it's for ourselves it's soul expression we do it because we have to it's inside of us and we have to get it out it's just life it's like talking you know um but a lot of people they need their art to be seen they need it to be validated by other people to know for their own self-confidence and an artist and virtual are no different no different um so that's one of the biggest challenges that I think we face on a regular basis is getting people to feel comfortable to come in to open sims to to use it creatively so they feel like they're uh betraying or cheating on second life linden labs or something I don't know I don't get it I don't get that one so yeah yeah actually at the uh you have this you have said it well um one point I want to express in addition it's called user creativity all these terms mean user it's not a gaming business we run here uh for profit like fortnite or leech of legends or whatever it is uh it's not made by a studio for selling the product it is by a community so very important is that we strengthen the community ideas um even knowing that it is so easy to run your home serve and a lot of people separate out of open sim out of os grid out of metro out of every grid that is known and say oh now I open my own server and come to me and so you have a lot of scattered development and just you get it by chance by by a mistake more or less that someone has opened something and this we have to in a way stop that everyone says oh there are no people in open sim yeah because you don't meet it on the place a you don't meet it on the place b but you may meet them on place that yeah so you have to find them they are everywhere but nowhere really and this is a problem for communication that opens them is a growing and interesting place the last um we're getting close to the end so I have a last question to ask you guys and that's about the transformative nature of immersive art um occasion i've come across this idea when writing about um uh virtual art that immersive experiences have the potential to be much more moving connect more emotionally with the viewer or the personal experiencing it then uh then other um um traditional art forms um that uh they can really transport you somewhere else and and change you um and do you see that do you do you see that happening right now in open sim with immersive art do you see that as the potential for immersive art in the future to be a really transformative and moving kind of artistic medium I see it on the January 7th we have our next hopper trip and we go exactly uh to a place where this happens tell us more what to transform you into uh no just another world January 7th at 1 p.m uh pacific daytime meeting at craft world h g hoppers uh we had I tell you why we always have posted where we want to go and then people go there but they don't come to the hoppers event they say oh I saw it already two days ago I was there I saw it it's great yeah okay uh that's not a community building no if you always say where we go and people sneak in and post photos things that have been there and then we stand here with three or four friends who always come oh no sets cannot be so a way of forming a living community so we we keep it now a little bit more secret where we will go that's so much fun that sounds like so much fun so it's a mystery destination for hyper goodness first on January 7th that sounds like a fun thing to do if you're interested in immersive art can you give me give us a little taste of what people will see well you're going to see original art so it's not a it's not somebody that's considered a tradition oh sorry about that I accidentally got dropped from the call can you all hear me oh my god I thought it was me I thought I was dropped from the call and I was like trying to figure out which button to push on my Skype yeah no it was me I guess I talked too much okay who's revolting against me in that in in the call oh you're about to tell us something mysterious about this new destination which is original art oh right it's it's it's a current living artist and we don't want to say the person's name and we don't want to go in too much about it other than the fact that they have taken their artwork and they have created they take us into their artwork every single piece of art that they're showing us they're taking us into their art and that's pretty phenomenal so I have we've been in immersive art before but this is actually going into their work so I and it's a new it's a new artist it's somebody I wasn't familiar with and I'm really really excited to share it with everybody so hg hoppers am I still here hg hoppers on the seventh our first 2020 hop uh one o'clock come to our hg hoppers at craft world grid so that's the mystery all right and we are getting close to our end time does anybody have any last words before we go uh thank you so much Maria for doing this and for allowing us to share about art and creativity in virtual worlds so thank you oh I just think it's it's a really unique aspect of being an open sim as the platform that it really allows such unbounded creativity and the ability to share it with people from all over the world at such a low cost with both easy to use tools and professional tools and the whole spectrum of things that you can use for the for for making your projects from like trims all the way up to really difficult immersive scripting and you can see all of it in open sim and it's just amazing and I've had a great time writing about it and I'm looking forward to to seeing a lot more of it coming up thank you so much well thank you everyone for joining us today um your work has been amazing and I think the entire open sim community and the whole immersive art community benefits from what you're doing here so thank you very much thank you art thank you Hans and um thank you um oh my god a kiss ma I'm like that's okay Maria I couldn't remember what what was your real name I just say kiss me kiss ma oh just I thought she was two different people I was like I was supposed to be there in in two avatars oh no I had a listed twice with two different bios when I first set up this channel I love it thank you very much Maria and panelists that was a terrific presentation and very inspiring thank you again thank you now as a reminder to our audience you can see what's coming up on the conference schedule at conference dot open simulator dot org following this session the next session will begin at 4 30 p.m in this keynote region and it's entitled a graduate school residency in virtual reality presented by yours truly we also encourage you to visit the oscc 19 poster expo in the oscc expo three region to find any accompanying information on the presentations and explore the hyper grid tour resources in oscc expo two region along with sponsor and crowd funder booths located throughout all of the oscc expo region