 Hello and good evening. Welcome to ongoing election coverage by Town Meeting Television. My name is Bridget Higdon and I'm the managing editor of the Essex Reporter. This is one in a series of candidate forums brought to you in advance of the general election on November 8th. I am joined tonight by Democratic State Reps Laurie Houghton and Karen Dolan and Republican Seth Adam Manley, who are running for the two state representative seats for the City of Essex Junction in Chittenden, 22. If you are watching this discussion live tonight, we welcome your questions at 802-862-3966. You can watch Town Meeting TV on Comcast Channel 1087, Burlington Telecom Channels 17 and 217, as well as online at youtube.com slash Town Meeting TV. We'll start tonight with opening statements from each of our candidates. You will have one minute to introduce yourself. Karen, let's begin with you as an incumbent, please. Yes. Thanks for having us here. So for our opening statement. Oh, we've got a phone. Phone ringing already. I think it might be answered now. Well, I would just like to start off by saying it would really be an honor to serve the City of Essex Junction for another biennium. During the past two years, I have advocated and voted in support of key recovery efforts for our state and took action to ensure that the well-being of all Vermonters is addressed. If elected again, I would continue to do that, build on the foundation that I've created and continue to listen, collaborate and hold up the values of our community. There really are a number of critical issues that are on the horizon, such as climate action, affordable housing, mental health access and reproductive liberty that will benefit greatly from my steady, experienced and community-focused leadership. And I look forward to bringing that if elected again. Great. Thank you very much. And Lori. Great. Thank you, Bridget. And again, thank you for having us. I always enjoy coming here. So I am campaigning for my fourth term and I've lived in the city of Essex Junction, now the city, for 20 years. And my family owns and operates a small business in the city as well. I've served previously, eight years as a village trustee, and on countless grassroots and community organization efforts. And I hope that through the 20 years of my activity in the city, that I've proven what I bring to the city. And that is my dedication to the betterment of our residents, our city and Vermonters as a whole. Through this community volunteerism and the monthly community conversations that we have every session, I spend time listening and connecting with our residents and with others to really understand what's affecting them and to bring their voices down to Montpelier. Over the past three terms in the state house, I've worked hard to build collaborative and respected relationships with fellow legislators and stakeholders and in order to facilitate action for our city residents. Two clear examples of my work that have positively impacted the city is the city charter going through the legislature in a mere four months with Karen's help. And then for the advocating for the passage of the extension of universal school meals, which Essex Westford School District and many students came and advocated for. So I look forward to continuing that work with the city's help and working with city residents. Thank you. Thank you. Seth, what's here from you? Hello everybody. I'm Seth Adam Manley and I'm running for the Vermont House of Representatives to represent the city of Essex Junction. Mainly the reason I'm running is I believe we really need to restore some balance to the legislature. We've had 20 or 30 years of what seems to be single-sided politics. And although there's a lot of good ideas out there, I think we really need to open up dialogue between all the sides. It's really important to express opinions. And I think Governor Scott's done a pretty decent job of providing balance and compromise. But in order to get anything meaningful done to tackle some of the big issues, I think he's going to need some more help from Republicans like myself. I hope we can put special interest issues on the back burner for a little while and start to work on what the majority of Vermonters really see needs to be done. Not the least of which is the skyrocketing cost of living these days. As far as my qualifications, I'm a native Vermonter. I grew up in Johnson, Vermont. Let's see, I'm a veteran of the U.S. Army. I'm a college graduate. And I'm also an experienced business owner. I've had quite a number of years owning and operating a small business, so I understand some of the challenges there. And, you know, what I can bring to Montpelier, I believe, is my willingness to listen and talk about things. You know, I'm actually a pretty open-minded conservative. However, you know, sometimes finding the best solution means, sometimes it might mean just for the government to step out of the way and let people make their own decisions. So that's what I can bring. Thank you. Great. Thank you very much. All right, we'll move on to some questions now. Let's start with the topic of education and what the legislature can do to help fund it. Do you see the need for changes to how we fund education in Vermont? And if so, how would you use your office to move changes forward? Seth, let's begin with you this time, please. Sure, you know, so, you know, this is an issue that's come up quite often as I've talked to people, you know, around the community. And I'm a big supporter of parental choice. And I think, you know, one of the issues that's come up is the issue of parents being able to decide where their children attend school. You know, I'm a full supporter of that. Now, I do understand that there's concerns about that if that happens, some schools may become underfunded. But, you know, I don't see any reason we can't come up with a good compromise and put in place systems so that when a school does become underfunded, you know, we can put in measures to reform the school and improve it. Otherwise, you know, we're just going to end up with failing schools if we just force using them. So that's probably the biggest issue. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you. So one of the reasons that I ran for office in 2016 was because I spent some time at the State House and realized there were not many people, right, legislators who had children in the school system. And so for me, it was really important that we have representatives who can support our future and understand what's happening in the schools. My son, I started when he was in third grade. He's just started high school and our school district is absolutely amazing as are most throughout the state. We do a really amazing job. And I fully support the collective responsibility of ensuring equitable outcomes for all of our students. And with that, I was happy to support the passage of S287 this year. Sorry, I forget what the ACT numbers are. But that actually updated our weights, which is how we pay for, how we figure out the cost of funding, and significantly higher weights for our multilingual students, which I think will be a big help. There's also a lot that was in that bill that is being worked on now. So there'll be a lot of studies that come back. And one of them is income-based funding, which is interesting. And I think it's something we should be looking at. You know, when I started six years ago, it was being talked about and I think it was talked about before that. But really, we've had a lot of changes in our demographics here in Vermont. So I can't really say if I support it or not, but I'm very happy that we're looking at how that could impact our funding going forward. And I just also want to say that EWSD is a really valuable partner. And they are always willing to come down and support our efforts in the state house. And it's just nice to have that partnership locally. Awesome. Thank you. Karen, please. Yes. Well, first I will say education funding really is critical for the well-being of our state, not only for our youth, but also for the future of Vermont. And as Lori said, you know, I also have two school-aged children. So I see firsthand the importance of supporting a quality education system in our state. I'm also proud to say that I, as of tomorrow, will be starting as a substitute teacher in my district. And I really look forward for that perspective of seeing, gaining a better understanding of our school system. Because in Vermont, we have made a lot of progress, as Lori has said, in creating a progressive tax system where we really are pulling resources together to fund our education system. It takes into account a lot of factors. Lori mentioned the weights, the weighting system. But the downside is that it's really complicated. It's a complicated system, and it's challenging to explain. So this makes it hard to really explore and tackle and understand all of those issues. It also can make it hard to explain to other people and build trust in the system. And so, as we said earlier, I'm looking forward to the reports that are coming out from our education committees, our ways and means committees of how can we continue this work? We have a great start here, but there's more to be done. And Vermont, I think, is the place to make that happen. We really don't have time to wait. Our education system, they're shifting now to meet current demands. Our funding needs to as well. And one point that I'll point out that is connected to the committee I serve on institutions is our school construction projects. Our school buildings are very old. They're getting older, and the general maintenance for them is really becoming burdensome. And we need to make sure that there is some secure funding source in there, and that's part of the funding mechanism we need to look at. Great. Thank you. Awesome. Let's remind viewers that if you have questions, you're welcome to call in at 802-862-3966 throughout this forum. Next topic here will be health care. So we know that the cost of health care is putting pressure on Vermonters and the state's economy. The COVID-19 pandemic has sharpened our focus on this issue. We've kind of seen how important it is and how it trickles into other aspects of life. So what is next for health care in Vermont? And we'd like you to be specific here. Karen, can we go back to you? Yeah. I mean, I'd be happy to start. I feel like this is one of the things that are interesting with having Representative Houghton and I serve is that we really collaborate well together and we understand that each of us has different areas of expertise and knowledge. And so health care is one of the ones that I really look to, to Lori and to Representative Houghton for. We kind of divide and conquer the work in this. So, you know, I can provide a brief overview of my understanding of the needs, you know, one in particular that I am looking at is the Health Equity Advisory Commission that we established in 2021. And the recommendations that are going to be coming out of that are key. But really, if I was asked this question, my first thing would be let's pick up the phone, talk to Lori, what are the things that are going on? And I hope she would do the same for me on my areas. So, I don't know if it's appropriate for me to hand it off to her, but, like, I would look to her and see where things are going. And that is the benefit of having a two-seat district, quite frankly. We can all be experts in everything. And I'm not an expert in health care, but I have sat on the Health Care Committee for three terms. I am the ranking member. So, as Karen said, we have the Health Advisory Committee and one of their charges is actually to provide guidance for the creation of a newly created Office of Health Equity. So, I really look forward to us taking that action again, hearing what they have to say this coming year and moving that forward. We, you know, obviously COVID showed us what all of our problems are in that area and we really need to focus on it. The other thing, we have renewed partnerships coming with our federal government. So, we have a new Medicaid waiver that's going to allow us to provide, that will provide us more funding. It's going to require a state match, but more funding to help people. One of the really exciting projects that we're working on, programs I should say, is wraparound supportive services for people in housing paid for partly by Medicaid. And that is really going to help. I mean, we all know we're in a housing crisis and we all know that there is mental health and substance abuse issues in our state and having those wraparound services will really help people. The other thing that we'll be working on this year is working to integrate. We have the opportunity to integrate mental health and substance use disorder together right now. People go to different places for help and it makes it very difficult. And then my personal overarching goal would be that we actually integrate primary care, mental health and substance use disorder in one place so people can go to one doctor, one facility, get all the resources they need. And I also want to say, and I'm sorry if I might be over, but a really key thing for Vermonters right now is we have subsidies to help people pay for premiums. It passed with ARPA a couple of years ago and with the Inflation Reduction Act they have been extended for three years. So if someone is buying on the Vermont Health Exchange or buying direct from Blue Cross Blue Shield or MVP, I really encourage you to go and call Vermont Health Connect, call me. Income qualifications are much higher than they used to be and we already know 23,000 Vermonters are getting help paying their premiums and we know there's many, many more that are eligible. So I highly encourage that. Great, yeah, that's an awesome reminder. Yeah, Seth, will you talk about what's next for healthcare in Vermont? Yeah, I'd love to. You know, this is definitely a big issue and it may be one that we may have trouble finding compromise. One thing I got to point out right up front, socialized healthcare has failed. You know, we can see that over the course of the last 15 years, Obamacare was billed as the Affordable Health Care Act. I think all of us understand that what happened was healthcare costs, or at least insurance, more than quadrupled over the, right after it was put in place. Not only did insurance quadruple, healthcare costs themselves went up, now we're faced with a situation where regular people can't afford it and now they're forced to go on to these subsidy programs. I believe the only way to go forward is to get government out of healthcare insurance industry and get government out of the healthcare business. I think it should be up to the individual healthcare providers to decide for themselves what treatment and how to, you know, provide that treatment to their patients to foster competition. One of the biggest costs in healthcare, I'm sure you understand, is the bureaucracy that they have to go through to meet the filing requirements to the government. So while we're on that topic, I know it's a big thing to a lot of people about, you know, there's a lot of talk of free Medicare for all. You know, again, this is another socialist program that's unworkable, it's unfeasible. And I'll ask you this question. You know, I don't believe it's a God-given right for anybody to have goods and services provided to them for free. The only example, you know, any time that that's going to happen, what the only way to accomplish free goods and services is to have a slave culture or to steal from somebody else to provide those services. It's just a fundamental thing that, you know, we may disagree on. Now, I'm not opposed at all to having programs available for those needy, and I'm sure, you know, while we get government out of these industries, there's going to be a transition period, but, you know, that's one of the things we need to work on. Socialized health care is a proven failure, and that's all I get to say. Okay, thank you very much. Alrighty. We're going to move on next here to criminal justice reform. It's been, I feel like it's in the news quite often right now, especially in Burlington, you represent a six-junction, so it is a different place and different issues, but some of them are similar. So let's talk about how Chittenden County addresses crime. Is there a problem with policing that needs reform? It's the first question here, and then sort of, I guess, along with that, how would you address community safety? We know that police departments are short-staffed. There's been alternate modes now to talk about. Essex has a restorative justice center, so let's talk about some of those issues. Laurie, I think it's your turn. Okay, thank you. I'm going to start, and then I'm going to actually do the same that Karen did on healthcare. I've learned over the years from a mentor that, again, you can't be an expert in everything, and Karen really is on this one, but I will say, specific to Essex Junction, we have seen crime rise like everywhere else. We had a bike stolen out of our garage one Sunday afternoon. So I firmly believe in the work of the restorative justice center. I believe in the work that the police do, but I also believe there's a place for the community, and we need to support people. We need to support children. We need to support families in such a way that they don't feel that crime is what's going to help them get out of whatever situation they're in. And so to have the resources available, not just the police resources, which we need, but to have crisis mental health services, to have youth services, again, to have the restorative justice, and honestly to have community members who care and who can provide safe places. Now I'm going to segue over to Karen. Is that okay? Well, the justice system really is an area of focus for me. My current work at the Essex Community Justice Center, and my previous job, I was a service provider at the women's correctional facility, and it really provided me with an in-depth understanding of our justice system. And when looking at how crime is addressed in Chinden County, I feel like the key word there is the county piece of it, because a lot of folks might not realize that it's different from county to county in Vermont. And the tools available to address crime vary from county to county, and it's based on the different folks who are in the positions of state's attorney, or the judge's seat, or within the different police departments. And so while our state, really values local control, local input, I think we need to balance that with what is our responsibility in government to have a baseline of services or justice tools in each community to show that there's equity in the system across the state. So in Chinden County, we're really fortunate. We have a lot of the tools available to us. Those folks who are in those positions, those stakeholder positions, really have bought into this large variety of tools, such as restorative justice, drug courts, the traditional sentencing method, methadone clinics, court diversion, the list goes on for that. And this is really essential, because crime is a complicated issue. The overwhelming majority of crime is nonviolent crime, and it's rooted in system gaps around poverty, around mental health, substance use, or there's inequities in the system. And so we need to address crime by filling these gaps while we're also working to support those who have been harmed by a crime. And so I feel like looking ahead how we need to address crime is looking at our safety net systems. And when our safety net systems are strained and our justice system is strained, that's not gonna work out, they go together hand in hand. So looking ahead to the next legislative session, I wanna look to really build up our safety nets so folks aren't having those gaps in systems and there'll be less crime, and folks are gonna be better served. Great, thank you very much. Seth, will you speak about crime in Chittenden County, please, and what should be done to address it? Yeah, and this is another very common topic. Obviously, violent crimes have gone up tremendously, especially over the last few years. And they always talk about causation versus the root cause, but obviously we can say, well, since we've defunded the police, these crimes have gone up tremendously. We need to look at enforcing the laws that we have on the books. And there's really two, I agree, and I can definitely compromise with the ladies about finding, attacking the root causes for the crime rather than taking care of it afterwards. And one of them would definitely be our education system again. For citizens of the state, definitely we need to provide our children with adequate education so that they have hope for the future. One of the problems though is a lot of the crime that's being committed, it's being imported from the bigger cities down south. So there's a lot of things that we can work on and I would look forward to working with one of the ladies to go forward to find out real solutions and not just provide the party bosses solution. Thank you. Okay, great, thank you. I would just want to note here, I think defunding the police is a term that gets sort of misconstrued in terms of what it means. And I know in Essex specifically the budget fluctuates year to year. Some years it is more than others, some years it is less. And I believe most recently it's actually been higher than it has been in years past. Yeah, and I'll actually point out that we didn't defund Essex Junction Police and our crime rates are relatively good compared to where they did defund it, like in Burlington. So I just want to put that out there. Great. Thanks very much. I'm sorry, may I add one thing? Sure, go ahead. I just want to, specific to Essex and I think they're a really good example. So Burlington has had the street outreach workers for a really, really long time. And my first term in session, Essex worked with some other communities and came to the legislature and said, we want to do our own type of street outreach, which is more of what they call community outreach, because obviously there's not a church street. And that was put into place, funded partly by the state, by the towns, and has really been a success. And so when people say defund the police, to me, it means to fund it appropriately with the resources that are needed. And in many cases, unfortunately, there needs to be restorative justice, which should be funded more than they are, and there needs to be community outreach to help the police as well. Great. Thank you. Awesome. Again, we'll remind viewers here to remember to call if you've got questions. That's 802-862-3966. We still have about 20 minutes here. So if you've got questions, feel free to call in. If not, let's move on here to a couple of these 30-second answers, which I would, if you guys are okay, you can go longer if you'd like, since we have some time here. But I'd love to talk about dream committee assignments, because I think that's an interesting question, because especially the two of you have had them already, and maybe your dream is not where you are, and that's okay. Let's hear that. Seth, let's start with you here. Sure. Yeah. Actually, right off the... I won't get to choose my committee. I'll be assigned by the Speaker of the House, of course. You know, I'd be comfortable in just about any committee, and one of my main goals would be to look at, you know, excessive bureaucratic spending. You know, my dream would probably be the appropriations committee, but I'm sure there's quite a few of them that I'd be able to lend my analytical ability to work on state issues. Yeah. Thanks. So I have served on my dream committee since I've started, which I feel really lucky to do, and that is healthcare. And the reason is it's complicated, as someone once said, and we've had a lot of turnover in our committee, and so to have someone who has some knowledge base to move us forward to some really important things, we need to continue pushing the integration of mental health and physical health. We should not be looking at those as separate entities of a person. They need to be integrated, and then we need to transform our mental health system of care, which is going to be really, really important to the future of our youth. Thank you. And Karen? Yeah, I think maybe I fall in between from both of the previous responses because I feel like the committee that I want to be on is one that's really making progress for Monters. The reason I ran for office and want to continue is to give back to my community, and there's also this passion for continuous learning and really understanding how the government works for our state. And so with that, I really feel that all areas of the legislative work are important, and my goal is to make progress and move the work forward. You know, my background is in the justice system, so judiciary would be at the top of the list for me, but also corrections, GovOps, those all fit nicely with my background, but I, like Seth shared, I can see myself fitting into any group. I think that's a trait that I bring, and I would really value the learning of whatever committee I'm on. Awesome. Great, thank you. I'd also like to jump down here to gun legislation and talk about whether the candidates here think that more gun control legislation should be implemented in the next legislative session. Yeah, I'm starting to hear this, Karen. I'm going to start. Because this is one that I've been talking a lot about with folks, and we're definitely hearing from community members about this, and for me the answer is yes, there needs to be more legislation. This isn't new. It's even in the previous session and now going into the, you know, preparing for the next one, just hearing about it all the time. We have needed better gun control legislation and recent events are only reinforcing this. We need to look at things such as waiting periods, safe storage, gun deaths as a public safety issue, a health issue, and Vermonters can really have access to guns in a way that ensures safety for all Vermonters. So I think that this is time we need to have these conversations, and there are things that are already in the queue. Let's move them forward so that we're all safer. I'd be happy to go next. So basically, you know, and that's all fine and good. However, I'd like to point out one thing to any of the viewers is that the availability of guns and ammunition hasn't changed significantly over the past 20 or 30 years. Matter of fact, it's actually gotten more restrictive. However, we have seen an increase in gun violence. The reason for that is not guns. You know, of course, I'm a Second Amendment supporter. I think what we need to look at is the cause. It's just like, you know, if the number of traffic accidents go up, do you ban vehicles? Now, what you do is you look at why the vehicles are killing people or whatnot. And again, one of them would be education. And yeah, so I probably had a few other comments here. I did prepare for some of these things. If you could just bear with me. Well, yeah, I guess that's about the best thing I could say. Okay. Thanks a lot guys. So I support the Second Amendment and I support additional gun safety legislation. So in Vermont, suicide is one of the leading causes of death. And 90% of suicides that lead to death are done with a firearm. And of the people who survive suicide attempts, 90% of them do not go on to commit suicide. So we have a problem with guns. And I'm not looking to take a gun away from anyone. I am looking to ensure that people who are in a moment of crisis and that does not equate to a mental health situation. It is a moment of crisis that they should not be able to walk out and purchase a gun immediately. There needs to be a waiting period. I also believe that we can have some reasonable safe storage requirements so that people, youth and people who should not have access to guns do not have that. I think it is, and I don't quote me on this, I believe it is 43% of Vermont households have guns. I'm not looking to take those away from anyone. I'm looking to ensure that the people who should not have access, especially our children and people in a moment of crisis, don't have access. And I just also want to be very, very clear that people who suffer from a mental health illness are usually harmed by others. They don't harm others. And so I want to make sure that we're not equating gun safety legislation and mental health because they are two separate, very distinct things. Okay, thank you. Thanks very much. I want to throw a little bit of a curveball here. And I want to talk about housing because that's an issue that's not on this list here, but we've touched on it in a couple different ways already. And it's on a lot of people's minds in terms of Vermont. Where are we going to build? How do we make what's already here affordable? So I'll leave it broad so you can sort of touch on what you'd like in that subject. But Karen, you want to start? Yeah. Well, in preparing for this and kind of thinking about what are my priority areas in the next legislative session, where do we think a priority area is for the budget? I think that is exactly it. Like affordable housing has to be at the top of the list. And so I can't say I have all the answers at the top of my head, but I know that that's the conversation we need to be having and answering some of those questions that you just shared. Like how do we have to change zoning? How are we being able to make sure we have the workforce that can build homes? How do we have all those pieces together? And unfortunately, it's a really complicated issue. It's not just as easy as saying, OK, well, let's just build more houses. One of the things that's happening locally in Essex that I think is really great is that we have a local housing commission, which does this kind of what we need to tackle at the legislative level. They're doing at the community level of bringing stakeholders together, having these discussions and looking at it through the lens of yes, we need housing, but also what do we need to look at for equity in housing, for affordable housing, for the zoning piece of it and coming up with recommendations that then come to the city council or the select board. And I feel like that's the process we need to do. And I know there are the housing experts. Again, that's not me. I can do the criminal justice in that piece of it and come together and come up with those solutions, those recommendations. And then it's up to us as a legislature to prioritize and kind of look like what can we make happen? What's realistic on the ground? And I think that's also where we need to prioritize our budget. We need to make this happen. Great. Thank you. So I will just, everything Karen said, you know, we passed Act 250 legislation last year and we passed a rental registry bill and both were vetoed by the governor. And I think that would be a big help to get us to some affordable housing quickly. The, we have invested a lot of money over the last couple of years from the federal government, from our own budget into building homes. That's going to take two, three years. We have an issue right now where people need a place to live immediately. I don't have that solution, but I think the conversation in the state house this year needs to be, okay, we had a bridge, right? We had a bridge from the federal government. We got some money. We were able to put some people into housing. But there were problems with that. One of them was the wraparound services. So we need money for that. Now we're coming into the situation where the rental emergency fund is ending far too soon. And so we need to get back in there in January and say this is about the people. This is about the family whose children are going to school and are going to have to be yanked out of a school to go to another school district or we'll now have to live in their car. You know, it's, if you don't have a home, you can't do a lot of things. And it's hard to have a job, take a shower. You know, so that we have to start focusing on the people understanding that in a couple years, yes, we're going to have more housing, but until then what do we do? I wish I had that answer. Great. Great. And Seth. So yeah, you know, this is another big issue. And I really appreciate the questions that you guys asked here. They are very spot on questions. You know, I don't know if there's an easy and quick solution to it. I definitely don't believe in just handing out money, just like the old saying, you know, give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Some of the issues that we're facing are a little deeper than just a matter of availability of stuff. We do know that Chittenden County has seen a tremendous amount of growth. You know, people are moving here from across the state and from out of state as well. And, you know, I do have some ideas. I need to do some more research on it. But I think a lot of people are still talking about deregulation so that our builders can afford to get in and build. Currently, a lot of them have to build the most expensive type housing available just to be able to pay for all the regulatory process. So there's a lot that we can talk about. And I'd really be happy to talk to, you know, all sides to, you know, what we can do about this. One of the points you mentioned in your opening statement was the cost of living in Vermont and making Vermont more affordable. I think housing is one of those places where it has become unaffordable for a lot of people who are already here and then people who maybe want to move here. And especially when we think about the workforce situation in Vermont and our demographic challenges, making the state attractive comes down to having attractive places to live that are affordable so that we can work in our healthcare industry or in our field in order to get things done. So if anybody wants to further comment on that, you can. I'm curious because I think part of this was we can have exchanges back and forth as well. And I just appreciate the concept of the deregulation and having government out of it because I agree. Like I want to be fiscally responsible and spend money wisely. I think the piece that I have found that goes along with it is that we need some eyes and ears on monitoring how programs roll out specifically around equity. Because I have used the fish phrase before, but I think it's like, but do we know that everybody has access to a pond where there's fish? And what kind of fish are they? Are they minnows or are they, you know, big fish? And so that's what I want to make sure our government is using money for to make sure everybody has access. So I would just be curious to understand them because I want that. I want it to be how can we be as efficient as possible, but also make sure that we're looking out for everybody. Any further comment on that, Seth? You know, I agree with that. You know, quite a bit of it. You know, I think the best place for the government is to clear obstacles and, you know, make the playing field as even as possible and, you know, that was one of the biggest, you know, functions of the government. I think we've got time here probably for another question before we get some closing comments. So let's end on a note about democracy as we're in the Center for Democracy here today. So let's talk about a vibrant democracy relies on widespread understanding of complex issues and participation by many. Please tell us three ways we might improve accessibility to local politics here in Vermont. Gloria, let's start with you. One is education in our schools. Don't think of this as another mandate on the school system. I don't want to do that, but we need to ensure that our children understand what is out there, what they can do, how they can affect the world they live in. We need people like us to continue to hold monthly conversations while we're in session and ensure that we're bringing what's happening in Montpelier to our communities. It's important that we have to educate everyone. Increase your viewership, I think is really, really helpful. In Essex, we've used this to get so many issues out this forum and it's really, really important. And the last one, I'm sorry, I think that's four, but the last one is to continue allowing zoom legislation is what I'll call it. We need to make sure people can see into our committee rooms and our votes on the floor. And I think we've done it very well through COVID and we will continue to do that and we should. Great, thank you. Seth, three ways to improve accessibility to local politics. So yeah, this is, you know, I've just recently got involved in politics and, you know, frankly, I didn't realize how much stuff was going on. You know, again, I'm going to go back to my fallback, you know, education is a big one, you know, especially our kids, but even, you know, our adults, maybe we should open up continuing education classes and, you know, make them attractive to people so that they know more about stuff, you know. And again, transparency is a big one. Making it accessible for people to get in there and advertise meeting times and so forth. Yeah, and I really don't have a third one. I didn't prepare all for this. Great, and Karen. Yeah, I think I would repeat some of that have been shared. Again, I have two school-aged children like engaging our youth, even though I'm in the legislature, I'm surprised, you know, of like what they don't know and how they think I spend my time. And it's like, this is it. This is being involved in local politics. I am happy with, I think it was last year, the year before we passed legislation around creating a youth council in the state, and I think that's great. And that's what we need to do, to go with it to make change. I do also agree with continuing access to government through whether it's in the legislature by having everything on YouTube, and it's recorded there. I was just listening to a committee today, you know, it could be there, but I didn't have to be in Montpelier. And then I also think, you know, we really need to take some time to examine our part-time legislature and how accessible is that? And is it, you know, if folks don't see that it can be a part of the legislature? It's like, how can I fit into something that's part-time and all the flexibility that's needed, you know, that might not give them momentum to keep exploring it and diving into that. And so I think for us to look at what are the ways that folks can be involved and how can we make sure it can be a part of their lives, you know, from start to finish. And I'll put a plug-in for public access television. That's my third one. And I think it's really important, especially that youth aspect that a couple of you mentioned, you can go to select board meetings, you can go to school board meetings, sit and watch and listen, run for office yourself if you're 18. You know, there's lots you can do. I'm just gonna really quick. My son watches YouTube a lot, and so it's really great when he's watching YouTube and now all the committees come up or you guys come up and he'll watch, you know, some of the videos, it's exciting. Good. We've got three minutes left here, so that's just enough time here for some closing comments. We started with you, Lori, so Seth, can we end with you here? Sure, yeah. I didn't have a prepared statement, although, you know, I will go back to, you know, doesn't matter, I would look forward to working with either of these ladies. They've got a lot of good ideas, and you know, no matter what happens, you know, I definitely agree with the democracy conversation we just had. If any of you at home are concerned about any issues, whether you like my opinion or if you like their opinion or something in between, you really should get involved. There's a lot of stuff going on in local politics and the best way forward, I believe, is grassroots efforts. There's a lot you can do right in your community. That's the best thing I can say. Please consider me for a vote this fall. Awesome, thanks very much. And Karen, please. Yes, so I started with saying it's been an honor to serve the City of Essex Junction, and I'll end with that as well, that it really has been a true honor. Along with Representative Houghton, and I really look forward to the opportunity to further carry the voices of community members in another biennium, thank you. And I'll finish it up. I echo Karen, it has been a true honor to serve Essex Junction, and I love our city. I appreciate the continued support of our community, and I really look forward to continuing my time in the State House and bringing the voices of Essex Junction down there. I encourage residents to reach out with questions, to talk about issues, and as Seth said, get involved and I would appreciate your vote. And thank you for hosting us. I always enjoy these forums. Sure thing. Yeah, thank you for tuning in to Town Meeting TV's ongoing coverage of statewide and regional candidates and ballot items. You can find this and more forums at www.ch17.tv. Please don't forget to vote on or before November 8th. Ballots will be mailed to all registered voters in the state, and to confirm you are registered and will be receiving a ballot, at the Ontario State's online portal at mvp.vermont.gov. Again, my name is Bridget Higdon, and thank you to Lori, Karen, and Seth for joining me today. Thank you for watching at home, and please have a great night.