 So on that note let's get started with our first panel discussion for the conclave that focuses on the theme Mumbai 2.0 reshaping the city. So first up I'd like to invite on stage our session moderator who is the Executive Director Consulting Services India CBRE South Asia Mr. Jayadip Pandit. So if I may please invite Mr. Jayadip Pandit on stage. All right so I've been told that he's going to join us in a short while. So let me just also go ahead to introduce our session moderator. Now since joining the firm he has undertaken a wide variety of advisory as well as valuation assignments across India involving both the government and private sector clients including investment banks, private equity firms, developers, corporate houses and land owners. And he comes with over 17 years of experience so if I may please invite Mr. Jayadip Pandit on stage. Well he's going to be responsible in extracting all the perspectives from the fellow panel members. So let's march ahead and invite our esteemed panelists. First up ladies and gentlemen may I please invite on stage architect Abraham John who's the founder and principal architect of Abraham John Architects. A multidisciplinary architecture, interior design, landscaping and urban planning studio that was founded in 1967 and he's passionately involved in all the projects and is committed to delivering high-end designs that balance sensitive contextual response with elegant functionality. Marching ahead our next speaker is the Chief Operating Officer of Godrej Properties Limited. May I please invite Mr. Jayanand Podar to please come on stage as well. In fact a civil engineer with post-graduation marketing finance and corporate strategy from University of Pune, he's responsible for end-to-end project execution, project management and delivery. Well joining us next we have with us the CEO of Integrated Cities and Industrial Clusters Mahindra Life Space. If I may please invite Ms. Sangita Prasad who's also the member of the group executive board of Mahindra Life Space and holds an electrical engineering degree from the Jadavpur University and MBA from I am Lucknow. Well our next speaker of course once again if I may please invite Mr. Nayansha the CEO and managing director of Mayfair Housing to please come on stage. In fact his research interests include financial instruments in real estate, FDI and real estate role of TDR and the implications on urban development. Our next speaker ladies and gentlemen the president, MCHI Credit and managing director Marathon Reality who comes with over 25 years of experience in the real estate and construction business. May I please invite Mr. Mayusha as well on the stage and our final speaker ladies and gentlemen the group director, advisor and CISO of Hiranandani group. We have with us Mr. Sridhar Narayan to please come on stage as well. In fact taking care of the investments, divestments and MNA across business verticals of real estate. He's also associated with Pegasus Finvest Advisory, private limited. Now let me tell you something ladies and gentlemen this is our first panel for the conclave. Let's have an energetic round of applause to welcome all our panelists. And let's get all the insights from them on reshaping the city, Mumbai 2.0. Well that's a theme so let's get started. I'm going to request our session moderator Mr. Jaydeep to take it forward from here. Over to you sir. Thank you. Good evening everyone. We have an esteemed panel here and we're going to discuss Mumbai reshaping 2.0. Right it's a Mumbai is a brilliant city. It's one of the most expensive cities from a real estate point of view or a residential point of view. Second largest commercial market in India in terms of value is probably the largest. Has a population of close to around 18 million people approximately. It's a vibrant city, cosmopolitan culture and the city is growing at a rapid, rapid pace. However I think the biggest issue that we are all facing is the kind of chaotic development that we have rather than a proper structured development. Effectively if you're looking at redevelopment or we're looking at projects that are coming up be Greenfield, redevelopment, SRA projects etc. Majority of it is focused towards the upper mid-end, mid-end luxury etc. And the question is you know what about the affordable people. Majority of the people within the city still can't afford to buy houses within Mumbai. The question is can we do something about it? Is there something that can be done from our perspective? There's also a focus on a lot of millennials who now prefer to kind of work closer to home. They want a less travel time. So when CBRE conducted a survey 68% of the people typically said that you know they want to be closer to home and you know they don't want to spend so much time traveling. The question is can we do something about it? Is there something that's really happening with the peripheral regions being created as new urban centers? How far is that reality? Is that something that we're really looking at? So let me start asking by Shridha. The concept is you are creating communities by yourself, right? You've created Pawai, you've created Thane and now you're looking at creating Panvel. Do you think that the new infrastructure that's really coming in, be it the Saiyan Panvel corridor, be it the now in Mumbai airport etc. Do you think these infrastructure initiatives are really going to help create these urban centers or do you think that that's still some time away before the powerhouses of say a BKC you know really move to move to those locations? Let me answer that question by starting off by saying that if you really don't have infrastructure built around and then building then integrated townships is a fairy tale. So infrastructure is the key but the way you define infrastructure and especially in a complexity like Mumbai which has got three sides of water and you just go one single way and then you have reclaimed land it's one has to really plan and that's why town planning comes into perspective where you have got a lot of things like urban mobility then you know you've got now the Google Maps you've got everything planned the density the kind of population that you would have so it becomes very critical and like all other cities given that Mumbai is at 20 million plus or minus in terms of population and less than 600 square kilometers of a city it's very imperative that we plan Mumbai 2 as it's rightly called I think reimagine Mumbai 2 for us to really get on to the next level which would really mean that we would sit down and plan every bit of it extending the city by as it's going towards north and have very high focus on infrastructure and then integrating that with the way people would live for example we have a lot of things happening we've got a lot of things that changed in Mumbai in the last 10 years and you rightly said the Panval Saiyan Panval the highway that reduced our travel time to our side at Panval by say in 45 minutes I could reach now from my power if I had to go to my side but but you know on a one-off day that's at a particular time then the freeway which has developed now but these all have been done with a perspective of certain load certain traffic study certain kind of capacity now what we have not really planned is what it is going to be is it sustainable for the next 10 20 years minimum like what how I still keep giving the examples of the British built those underground storm water drainage across south Bombay and they still are very useful for you even today they are servicing it in 100 years so they plan for at least 50 hundred years ahead in terms of growth in capacity growth in use for example in Poway just to give an example we have got excess capacity in terms of water storm water drain and htpltp that we have built not now it was the excess started somewhere in 1990 so between 1990 and 2000 we had built those kind of capacities which can even survive for the next 20 30 years but that's the way I think we should plan and if we are planned in Thane which is under 375 acres of township it's again built with more focus on infrastructure and in terms of what we learned from our mistakes in Poway for example if I ask Mr Nirenjan what in hindsight you would do what you would not done in Thane is answer to Thane which my roads are double that and if I ask if you interview any of the residents living there there are close to 7 plus 4 11,000 families living or 8,000 families now with TCSD lighting another 20,000 people working so another 2,000 families the the logic is they are very happy in that community when they walk around the 375 acres with respective amenities all around them so that's planning we've always been a group which ensure that we build we always say we'll give you township infrastructure so if you take that and we further went to Panvel so we are now actually focusing on roads double the roads digital signboards making it a smart city a single form to a resident should come in fill in a single form and get all connections including fiber to home and that's the intent that we do what we implemented in Panvel and 2000 apartment so long and short of it is infrastructure planning and more specifically planning around locations within Mumbai and extending Mumbai as it goes towards north the new initiative is by the government which is helping us in terms of the coastal roads the the urban mobility factors that we need to take into account while planning the density of how you live and how much infrastructure would support that would be very critical as we go along I think we are halfway there I think the regulatory piece is all put in you can interpret it two ways you can say and look at it oh my gosh the legal guy things are an hurdle but I think in some way they are all laying out a path for us to get more institutionalized and drive towards this development and growth of infrastructure and planned sustained building of cities that we want to do that would be my take as I would think you just begin with sure thank you Ashita you have obviously built you know large industrial townships you know which have really been successful per se the question that we have and this is more from a Mumbai perspective is that you know you have your peripheral regions where these things can come up the question is that are these the future growth centers do you think that you know this will help decongest the city and move people out or you know is it still going to be that people want to be in Mumbai and will continue to stay in Mumbai because that puts a lot of pressure and like she that mentioned you know a lot of pressure on the existing infrastructure that we have currently so unless and until we have some growth centers that are that are outside you know you will not get people moving out necessarily so your thoughts on on how you know you'll have done it you know how we'll have kind of taken that ahead I agree with Shridhar on most of the points but I'll just first of all in light hearted humor we don't have to reshape Mumbai we have to shape Mumbai because reshaping is a tedious task I would much rather see what is the context of Mumbai it is a straight piece it's a linear piece of land its population per square feet must be one of the highest in the world so we have to look at it from that holistic perspective and I'll give you an example what Hiranandani's built were also shifting the center of gravity from central Mumbai to outside so please understand that a panvel or a or a pavai were not center of gravity for Mumbai so the challenge and opportunity here is when we shape Mumbai are we shaping it in the current constraint and construct or are we redefining it and I think that's extremely important and I'll take some lessons which may not be totally translatable to Mumbai from our integrated cities which we have built the theme has been the same am I decongesting the main city am I creating economic anchor if you don't have economic and social anchor and I am comfortable in a dharavi because I have friends family I have business I have proximity to the social infra you can do whatever you like with me I will not shift from there unless you integrate those pieces and that's the common second theme I would like to bring in you know this whole pursuit of building affordable housing in various places we have humbly learned that you can't build a vertical structure in the middle of nowhere and expect people to transmigrate to that place are you around it having things which people feel comfortable if you don't have it around are you connecting people to that sign panvel corridor and you're getting people into their job place or their recreation space or their education space soon and safe enough the other element I would like to bring in here is the safety safety I don't mean in our you know what happened in the waters which got inundated in in Mumbai a few couple of months back I'm not talking the last one the previous one in fact it was early end August it was not even a couple of months what is happening the storm water drains I think thank god I know I am saying something politically incorrect thank god for what our colonial rulers built what are we doing about it the positive part is the government is showing intent through its plans programs and policies it is now for all of us to take those policies into practice yes take courageous decisions to shift center of center of gravity but just not build residential real estate and not build the social infra around it not and lobbying with the government working with the government on connectivity and if you are doing something in the middle of the city and building mere vertical structures and with a strip of road you know the road height combination has to work but you can't have an insulated isolated vertical structure it is just not going to work for affordable housing that's my stance Mr. Pothar now see at the end of the day I know that you know like like Sunita mentioned we have to live within the constraints of our city right it's not about reshaping but it's primarily just shaping Mumbai and I think one of the most important words in that regard is is redevelopment be it SRA be it MADA redevelopment etc etc the question that I have is that is it easy to build is there is there problems that you are facing and I know you know as Godesh probably have done quite a few redevelopment projects how easy is it to implement these projects and the second question following that is do you think that you know obviously the government has taken a lot of policies ahead and you know we were having a discussion earlier about where you you know the question is are these really being used for implementation of the projects or are they just being used to create projects overall I think my good evening I think my take is more from implementation point of view while you know we have experts you know I'm not qualified as them to make comment on you know how the policies need to be there I'll take the other part of you know this discussion is if I look at today the construction that is happening in Mumbai I think I agree that we need to shape it and what I mean we need to shape it is let's look at you know the way construction is happening somewhere we need to plan what construction to be taken at what point of time also and if we have to take up that construction then what kind of infrastructure is required you know for implementing those kind of things like in case of you know redevelopment the roads are very narrow you know as and it's so narrow that at times it's very difficult to you know reach the the place now the effect what happens on the project is the project gets delayed I was reading an article sometime back and it was saying that the the projects that are getting delayed is close to 68 percent of the projects in Mumbai are you know getting delayed beyond the the planned this thing and see this at the end of that this costs money this takes away time of the project this takes away the you know you know the and suddenly so many projects start we have so much of workflows I am not sure if the so somewhere I think we need to plan what should proceed what should be the predecessor if I want to start construction I agree with Mr. Sridhar that you know you need to have some infrastructure in place where the construction is facilitated and if the construction happens very quickly the customer who will walk into that will also have some bow factor otherwise he will think how my vehicle will reach how my son will reach the school you know in 30 minutes will the school bus reach there on time if there is a water stagnant will I reach there see these kind of things you know can be avoided that's what is my take on. Then basically from the office right when you are being an old development house from that perspective the question is that you know like he mentioned on the redevelopment and you know from from your firm's perspective do you think redevelopment projects are easy to implement do you think their time constraint do you think that the policies favor you know developers when they're doing redevelopment projects what is your stance on redevelopment by itself. I think the world of redevelopment the universe of redevelopment I would include as slum redevelopment mada redevelopment redevelopment of old and dilapidated buildings I would also include in that the PAPs also who reaccommodate the people who are affected by the projects so in my view 95 percent of development in Mumbai when Mayur will correct me if I'm wrong is only by way of redevelopment I think developments of Hiranandani and all that are part of heritage now although you know it happened in 1980s and 2000 but all that has become part of heritage you know I'm sure they're also in some a few years they may be looking for redevelopment in their layouts also for the ones that they did in 1980s so I think the government needs to completely support the moment of redevelopment and in the last three months you must have read in the papers about the collapse of a building at Bindi bazaar at copper I think that has opened the eyes of the government and they have come out with very very strict policies in terms of dilapidated you know how do you defend dilapidated what happens if it's dilapidated how soon the redevelopment should happen and things like that but I think there is still a long way to go you know where the redevelopment becomes the backbone of development of Mumbai and you know everything each and every issue is addressed currently you know the government is slightly in a passive mode no doubt that this government is far better than any other government regimes that I have dealt in my real estate career but I think if the government can take this up and I am sure they are going to take it up in the DCR 2034 because a lot of things that will come up need to come up in the regulation and in the development plan so I think we should all eagerly await and I would also suggest the people in the house that in terms of redevelopment if you have any suggestion then please do put up to the Honourable Chief Minister to the Principal Secretary Urban Development to our association Crida MCHI because the government is in an open mood to listen and come out with a very long term policy which will completely you know like Maniton I believe is the seventh version of Maniton is what we are seeing now so same way we still have not seen the second or third version of Mumbai so I think in all our lifetimes we must see the second and third version of Mumbai. That's a very good way to do it. Manu you obviously you know being the President of MCHI and Crida from your perspective just wanted to understand you know what has been your firm strategy do you I know you have a lot of greenfield developments you know as a part of Maniton reality etc but are you you know focusing is your focus more on redevelopment or greenfield what are the pros and cons of both I mean is there a major issue that you're facing with either one of them be it on the approval side be it on on any of the other sides? As a President and as a MD of Maniton Group we are quite optimistic on MMR region as such and as per some of the forecast which is given by 2030 MMR's economy will be close to $265 billion which is you know equivalent to a country of a Portugal or something so and the population also as per the Mackenzie's report will reach close to $330 million so you know MMR I'm talking about like all regions of MMR so as a marathon strategy we are spread across MMR we have two township projects which are in between Thane and Kalyan Dumbivali we that is targeting to affordable housing segment we have at Panvel having mini township targeting to affordable housing those are all greenfield projects we are also looking at rightly pointed out by Nain as looking at Mumbai in 2034 DCR and right now as an urban renewal so you you really don't get if you want to do a development within Mumbai a greenfield land is very hard to get whatever we've been able to develop for last 10 years are also part of a mill and redevelopment we've been developing Khataw mill we've been developing Mofat Lal mills we are developing Peramel mill these are all again mill lines which are a part of a redevelopment and we are now focusing also which is a difficult part of the redevelopment where we will be able to create a huge affordable housing segment in SRA because SRA 50% of the tenement are to rehouse the slum developer so we have taken up almost five to seven projects between Mulun and Ghatkopar in the SRA segment now SRA now I'll focus on challenges of redevelopment redevelopment policies are evolving because every city or wherever you know redevelopment goes through because we have a very democratic setup we have to go through a consent mechanism where we need to really put all the whether slum dwellers or all we need to put them on a consent there were some problems with the consent been taken by force in past so those policies again change now we have to take a consent under a video recording there will be HGM there you know where people will come a developer will give a proper presentation and everything will be more transparent so the more transparency is increasing the reputed developers really want to take part in the development process and that is what we've been seeing most of the corporates even Goudrej is also I heard doing a lot of redevelopment projects because the transparencies with the rules are coming in and the policies which are continuously evolving go bringing more transparency on the board like in redevelopment project you have to have an PMC you have to have a tender being floated then the tenders will be evaluated by the PMC then it will go through an HGM approval so you know all these things if you look at they're all evolved over the period of time and I think with 2030 for DCR most of those policies and the circulars which are evolved over the time will become sacrosanct in a rule book as an act and we will we see that 2030 for DCR is going to be really more proactive in the redevelopment and urban renewal for all the types of projects be it uh delipedated the cluster development as an mchcredi we have pushed that cluster redevelopment should come also in suburbs because right now the cluster redevelopment is only in city cluster redevelopment for your information in short I will tell you is that you have to get more number of buildings together because what is happening is the small building small land and very tall building are not becoming efficient it is becoming a stress on our infrastructure we are not being able to give amenities so the government came up with a one acre 4 000 square meter cluster you can all the land owners can come together and redevelop the whole project which will be more you know better planned that same policy is now going to come in the suburbs so suburbs the that the buildings which are you know 1996 and earlier they will be coming into the cluster so you know we feel that credit mchi and all the you know even peta architect body and all are quite you know in sync with the government and continuously feeding them with all these uh uh suggestions and which are adopted very well by this government it will touch upon the infrastructure which you talked about in my life like life cell in Mumbai not so many projects of infrastructure ever launch look at it you know like I was with the MMRD a commissioner and he says one lakh 13 000 crore seven different metro lines are almost about to be you know so many metro metro lines are already going on and other metro lines are going up so altogether 254 kilometers of metro lines we will be seeing in five to seven years look at like Gika has almost finalized trans harbour link which is mthl 15 000 crore project there is one project what which is called uh multimodal corridor which the entire alignment has been finalized and that also will connect from Virar to Alibagh a totally new area will come into the you know total connectivity all Kalyan Bhivendi uh all all that location up to Alibagh will come into that corridor so lots are a lot of things are happening and we will see because of whatever this new government's push uh huge connectivity across MMR will be developed within eight to ten years thank you and in fact uh Ibrahim this coming to you per se now you know and I think everyone here noted the fact that you know infrastructure is one of the issues that we have and I think in India we have always uh you know I think how it typically should happen is that you you plan you build infra and then you occupy whereas in in India unfortunately you're actually following the other way where you're occupying then you're planning and building infra um you know be it social infra etc etc so it's not working the way it's supposed to be working um is there a system that can be made better in terms of how this can operate uh you know uh luckily you know people like Hiran Nani you know the code bridges and and the Mahindras of the world have the option of you know using their experience from the past and then you know developing something but you know when it comes to the city unfortunately it is more a government initiative so do you think that there's something that can be put into the system which can help make this slightly better um you know from um from actually planning you know then building the infra and then going and occupying it rather than the other way around good evening well we architects we just keep dreaming large parts of lands were available wherever the mills were there or industrial uh buildings were there like in Vikroli Mullen and all those areas and the builders have builders are also encroaches by the way they have come up and they've put up their structures they were able to give certain amount of infrastructure within their areas available but then at the end of the day they have to connect to the main road or whatever available services as it was rightly put up the roads have not been planned the roads have to be restructured now look at a case where a small plot of land is available to a builder and he's after all a businessman and he wants to make the maximum out of all the money which he has borrowed and unless it is realized he'll be on the road so obviously he will try to build the maximum fsi available and even the smallest open spaces he will not leave so he's close to the road again the same old road he's not a social worker remember no builder is a social worker they are out there to make their own money naturally they are business people but the government has come out in this 2034 this year it is a lot of points are there which is quite proactive in it they've also suggested TOD that is a transit oriented density of places where transit of people from workplace to their their homes can be limited and that the only way we could probably dream is to create satellite cities now here and then he for instance has built up residential quarters and they're shopping everything but again it is a the workforce from there has still traveling north south in when you come to bombay you're always talking only north south north south it's a linear city no doubt it agreed we are not thinking of east west it was in 169 that was when korea charles korea and shittish patel proposed the development of new bombay remember kongan bound itself remained for three years shut there the government obviously did not want to shift at that time marasha government was so obsessed with the idea of supposing the central government takes away bombay and makes it into a union territory so they didn't want to shift they also went and built up their mantralia their development of everything in in in south bombay they could have easily shifted here the financial centers could have easily shifted the new bombay area where land is available could have developed but that did not happen it's all political the there is first of all trust me there's no political will unless there's a political will unless there is a kind of a transparency in dealing i don't i must confess i don't have any building in bombay i will all outside bombay i don't even go to the municipal because i know all my life i have 80 years i've never paid even 20 rupees on the road corruption i refuse to do it but i'm worried what my children will be doing you know my son is an architect he has won two international awards we have we have one national award regional award everything in architecture but it's all limited to only dream houses and dream projects which are supposed to now we have formed a collective in bandra we live in bandra which is called a bandra collective consisting of about eight young architects they keep organized but everything is suggested what the municipality does is that they employ a contractor first then ask us now you work according to his this is just not done i i suggested to them you should have a logo where the cart will be behind the cart will be in front the horse will be behind that should be the municipality's logo because just dreaming i must i must i must say that samgita's suggestion of one of the most important things to be concerned the social concern i can give you a simple example when people are living in a locality and with they have their own people around they will not shift elsewhere no matter how much you build up and give them and they will sell off those premises and they will go back into the shacks and slums because they are that mentality cannot be changed secondly a city every time we calculate this is a 20 million people city and all that but by 2034 what is going to be the population we do not know it's practically an impossible thing to reshape the city it requires complete demolition and reconstruction and that's the stage in which we have descended the bomb bay has come to that kind of a stage because everyone was available for a price and everyone was in a hurry to make money and everything was going on in a haphazard manner just take a case of winson road which runs from viti you know down to the other through parir in those days when the british had built they did not require that kind of a wide road but they built it they had a mission and even till today that road serves and we have gone and put flyovers there going across parir the other everywhere and we still the traffic is going on there but we have no vision we are ad hoc everything comes temporary and it becomes really difficult to create something worthwhile bombayak does not have any architectural structures you go to any other city probably you'll find some architectural wonders but bombayas only i don't know i don't know how to explain it's really difficult because it's it's temporary everything is temporary here so we get frustrated as architects we get really frustrated to create something is impossible because when you touch a builder his first question is what is the total fsi available maximum available the open spaces how much it can be used open how much can be reduced children have no place to run around we are proposing cycle tracks in fact we had come out of the proposal that entire over the railway create a garden in 1983 we got an international award for that and the east just can easily be connected except for the flyovers or which goes across the railways line bombay east east and west and the railway connections there are no way people can cross but this we found out there's so many places they can have access from east to west west to east and that way both areas will get easy till today west attacks a better price than the east this is the way they have been developing now reshaping redevelopment we were talking about trust now as you rightly suggested trust development is the only answer for redeveloping the city reshaping the city and it also should extend to suburban areas wherever it can be done there are so that more open spaces can be created the whole aim should be to create more open spaces more green spaces and today no development zone which is there which has been encroached upon because the municipality cannot do anything and they have been declared now out of the no development zone and certain areas of no development zone of the salt pans and other places are taken away from that so that further development can be taken now look at this way now there is something of nature we have to have a topography we have got to have find out how the nature works we can't fight air and water fighting against the sea fighting against the wind pressure is not an easy thing if we close the access of the sea in one place it will access somewhere else smart builders they discovered our car to road area the sea is a creek they discovered it was a creek and therefore we can have a development no obviously a builder will only look for a profit is having some of these builders like god rich properties mind us tatas and here and then is all have been doing good work they have been having excellent proposition for greenery everything you know in their premises they have been doing we commend them we really can salute them but not with the thousands of builders overnight which has turned up now I'll tell you something very interesting how did building industry come up so much any other industry whether it's an automobile or a pharmaceutical or any other industry you cannot pull in you push in your black money you have so many licenses you have to have so much of technical know how qualifications and things like that no builder requires any technical qualification trust me in the same thing in the film industry they're also all the black money and all the people could come in these are the two industries where people could easily push in their black money and and here the central government suddenly a demonetizers and said all the black money will come out but it's something which we are in a vicious circle I mean I feel frustrated so just to to interject here and I know you're talking about how we need to reshape the whole city and coming to you quickly you know on the mill lands and industrial lands right you didn't mention about you know that's the possibly the only place that we have for greenfield development but you need to understand that obviously these go at a at a premium because you know there is so is there a chance that we can really do some holistic development per se in those locations or you know do you think that it's it's still I'm just going to look at within my city or within my area and then you know just do a development around that how does that typically work for Mumbai so I'll go first principles okay the first principles are when I have a piece of land it interacts with places outside so it's not an island it is within a larger precinct so are we make if we have a mill land and let's look at the stakeholders who are the stakeholders the stakeholders are the mill owners the mill workers and mcgm I'm just taking some representative example and of course the users and the buyers of that space so whatever I do has to have economic sense and show some sense I'm deliberately bringing social because it should be sustainable and I'm not saying one over the other both have to interact and intersect with each other what is happening is if we do something which is one time or which is temporary taking your word and which kind of looks at short term profits then it will not yield something which is repetitive which is scalable and which can go on for a longer term so I would take these as the first principles if I am developing something in the mill land is there a common goal the problem is which happens is each of us have different goals and when we have different goals the land use which comes out of it does not serve anyone actually and we have half hazard and I know you are all talking about redevelopment my suggestion that we must look into it in a holistic manner take social land use and economic when I say social if people interact with that space socially with the commercial space the retail space and there are footfalls it will obviously have economic impact so I'm not talking about socialistic I'm talking about social interaction with the space within and the space outside these are my first principle suggestions for the mill lands stakeholder co-creation common common goal which obviously is difficult but if we can show profits to each unit but has a long-term impact then I would go for that on just a question menu to you on primarily affordable housing and that's the biggest buzz word right now right where people talk about what is really affordable and it's a big question marked to a lot of people the question is when we develop something in the peripheral locations what do you think and obviously the government is doing a lot of work like you said on the infrastructure side but what do you think we need to do slightly more to push you know people to move to the peripheral locations to the congestive city is that something that we can do easily obviously affordable you know like everyone said nobody's really going to get your drivers to move there but how can we kind of do this and how can we kind of what do we need to do better to kind of move people to go into outside the city and kind of working there itself so in my opinion there are affordable there are two again sub-segment one is we call EWS which is economical weaker section so you know in value wise it will fall 25 lakhs and below from Mumbai standards and affordable housing as defined in now national act which is less than 60 square meter carpet so now all definitions there are a lot of debates on what was affordable and all so now they have come up with a very common criteria of affordable housing is a project which has you know more than 50% of the flats which are less than 60 square meter carpet area so now those if you look at in Osai Viral, Thane, Kalyan Dombivali, Panvel, Rigor region all those places 60 square meter carpet is in the range of 40 to 65 lakhs so that is in MMR region is considered affordable segment so two segment one is below 25 lakhs and one is above and between 65 to 70 so these are the projects which are going on in affordable housing particularly I would like to stress PME Prime Minister's Avas Yujna has also picked up very well these are the eligibility criteria of buyer to be buying for the first time first time home buyer and secondly the salary monthly yearly salary is between 3 lakh to 6 lakhs so these this type of a eligible buyer will get straight 250,000 subsidy by way of interest subvention so this scheme is also really taken off very well these schemes were little was not popular but now refinancing is happening very quickly through the banking and finance companies so this is taken off very well now comes how do you really make it viable the second point yes they are better social infrastructure better connectivity and particularly basic infrastructure of water electricity I just want to give you my example we did in 2007 2008 Marathon Nagri in Badlapur Badlapur was like kind of a sleeping town and we started this project of Marathon Nagri we sold lot of many flats but at the time of completion the water line which was supposed to come it took almost nine months we had to spend two and a half kilometers of whatever line was to be given for those 1000 flats so these type of a last mile infrastructure is the biggest problem for the affordable housing project where either drainage is not there or there is water not there or electricity these are the basic you can create within your township school and other social infrastructure but these type of basic infrastructure we really need to depend on the government and if that has been taken care of simultaneously in all these regional MMRDA plan I think affordable housing will boom in next 10-20 years. Mr. Pudda now the question is more on implementation of these you know the government has said that there's so many lesser houses that are really available within the city the question is how is that going to be implemented right do we have enough people do we have enough contractors do we have enough you know labor by itself to kind of you know implement these kind of projects because once you have lesser of any one of them the cost increases and that's what makes it unviable so your thoughts on on on that by itself I think in Mumbai high rise I don't think there is any option let's accept a few of the ground realities another thing is we always will run short of skill manpower let's accept that also you know as another ground reality probably somewhere the whether it's a it's a government or it's a contracting company or it's the developers they need to start thinking how can we convert this construction into manufacturing second thing is sometimes I get worried you know when I I get a call from some some friends in the industry and they tell me can you look at this there are cracks in this lab there are cracks in the columns and I look at the building is maybe 15 years old 20 years old I think somewhere the sustainability you know will also come from giving the right kind of quality and the life to that structure I'm not sure whether we are sensitive you know as a industry as a as a social responsible elements you know who are responsible for creating whether it's the infrastructure townships or whatever are the elements of this these are very very important third thing probably we also need to look at we call that you know but if you look at all your projects you know we always run short of people so we all as a either as a industry or as a government we need to do something you know where we upgrade the skill and this high-rise if we have to create I'm not sure the new course that the government is releasing how they are friendly with high-rise if I have to convert this whole construction into manufacturing and if I have to go into something like precast or maybe a tunnel form where in India there are there are developers who are doing one day cycle in slab casting means every day one slab is getting cast and and the building you know in elsewhere in the world you know they are actually constructing 70 storage building 100 storage building in two years two and half years time where we are seeing you know for doing a 20 storage building we take four years five years I think this equation need to be made sustainable sustainable in terms of uh destructibility sustainable in terms of livability sustainable in terms of you know the life of the structure all these things need to be need to be considered I agree with you know what Mr. Nayan is saying or Mr. Mayur is saying a lot of good things are happening you know from government side I think there is also probably a need for all these stakeholders to come forward and take this to the next level third level fourth level I think I don't and honestly I don't understand this Bombay 2 and Bombay 3 because I'm a civil engineer I always think if I construct a building it should live there for you know at least 60 70 80 years I love the buildings constructed by you know Britishers whenever I have time I love to go and look at the structure of you know VT station or all other buildings in Bombay or outside Bombay and I love it I always wonder you know why we so much of technological advancements so much of you know qualified engineers you know why can we not create some buildings which will live there for 70 80 years why should we talk of redevelopment you know of a building which is 30 40 year old sorry just to and I think we're running out of time one last question to Mr. Sridhar you know Mr. Podad did mention something about vertical development right how feasible is it I mean is it really feasible because I know every time you put a slab the cost keeps on going up so from a from a actual financial perspective how feasible is it to do this let me first yeah I think vertical development will add cost now Bombay is a city which is mired by one is you're going only in one single line you're surrounded by water as I said earlier so obviously and as nine pointed out I think it's also a city where redevelopment would be the key theme where the government also is contemplating in DCR 2034 where in terms of FSI it's removing those shackles around it in south Mumbai and in near cities they're trying to give you you know incremental FSS only the only way to utilize your FSS to go up and the only way that you can accommodate a lot of people in this increase your density in a small piece of land is to go up so obviously it is inevitable that you will still build tall buildings so let's live with that fact number one now second question is how is it viable and how is it both from a speed and a cost and a sustainability perspective I think as you go typically I rework in Tamil Nadu we have got a huge township next to but everywhere ground plus seven or ground plus nine once this year for approval year this year for approval as the fire approval comes in your additional cost per square feet in terms of construction goes up then as soon as you reach the 20th slab then in terms of moving your equipments putting up those things and at certain level I was doing the 60s turret building in south Bombay and we figured out that in realistically the cost literally went up by two-third per square feet from what you built from a ground plus nine of a decent quality good quality building that normally we would like to give it to our customers so having said that the crucial point is again I come back to planning again I come back to what's the density what's the infrastructure around there how much is the paying capacity for that location because you have to plan accordingly you don't build a elevated road or a highway across lower parel and assume as both Mr. Abraham and Sangeeta pointed out and we expect that oh 2000 cars can go easily and while I next one year you find that there are 5000 cars and there is huge jam so but that's not what we were talking about and integrated in the sustainable development so similarly when you build vertical you need to ensure that you map every location and you have a cluster for example Singapore central business district as public housing surrounding it which which actually tens and thousands of people live there it's all a 300 to 400 square meter of flats very beautifully done it's on the CBD public housing you cannot once you take it you cannot rent it out or sell it out but you're to live in there but that's built to a plan that's built to certain expectations of how people will live will behave and you already plan what's the cluster what's the area so as he pointed out as an architect we also see that when we develop we develop all the social infrastructure and then built accordingly so then there is certain premium that people are willing to pay to live there so then that is affordability so build affordability is a contextual theme while we have defined it in terms of space to 60 square meters and certain x square meters from a price point it's purely contextual because I was just before the panel I was telling Sangeeta while we were chatting that if you ask I asked my mate to go and live with boys sir by Tatas have built a 15 lakh house he refused to go for her our economic drivers were close to say Pawai the boy is like South Bombay pricing it selling at 35,000 rupees a square feet but she was living somewhere close by 5 10 minutes away in a place called Parkside and for her that was more relevant so affordable housing is contextual what we need to do I think 2034 policy of DCR is providing huge amount of benefits we are talking about 1 million homes by 2020 so I don't know how are we going to achieve it give laying open the salt pans I think we didn't touch upon the good salient points are we're making them free for affordable housing NDZs are being created into special develop development zone one and two where you're building other amenities and you're going to give more open areas in the new DCR so hopefully all of that coming in your problem of vertical housing will remain where you will build in a place like BKC or South Bombay tall towers and people who wish to live and would like to pay the premium will have to pay is it going to be expensive answer is yes it's going to be expensive probably going to take the cost of construction by at least 60 percent more as soon as you translate beyond 20 plus great thanks a lot you know just to quietly summarize you know what we've been talking about what we've been saying is that yes that is the government is doing a lot of work on the infrastructure side you know like Mr. Bayusa said redevelopment is the flavor like Mr like you know Nan said that you know majority of the work that's really happening here is is redevelopment projects however you know infrastructure I think we need to really look at the infrastructure by itself you know creating growth corridors across the board is something that we are really looking at you know holistic developments and you know like Sangita mentioned you can't really reshape the city you need to kind of shape the city better you know and that's what we are kind of looking at and hoping that yes going forward the government is doing its bit I think even mch I credit is doing its bit to kind of put forward their suggestions and thoughts to to the government but we need to do slightly more from our perspective and I think that's that's eventually going to keep on happening slowly as we go ahead I'm opening the floor for a couple of questions if we have any for the panel that I would like to you know I said open the floor is open for questions one moment running authority to get the work in time when the radar was in the formation for last three years or four years this is going on Mr. Mayur say government is supporting to you when the government this government was forming the act why don't you ask this vital point to involve in the era and now you are crying for it government asked for the public objections when formation was in fear of builder people shouted it when the objection for public that once we pass in time the governments who support environments would not take a lot of time in agenda and your scheme is delayed for five years six years and you are penniless for that why don't you take objection for this era where governments are involved and you are crying now no I think and I think there you would have to give it to mch I credit they did take a lot of objection they didn't take it sorry for my comments four years happened they didn't take it they should have got caught didn't go to court also when the era x hearing was going all over India our national body grad I national and credit grad mch I was called for hearing by the parliamentary committee and I was personally present we have said all these things you bring also approving authority under rara by code it so yeah no no that is there we have given in writing but somehow when the final act came they said they will assist they will they they are supposed to assist but they have not put the authorities the people who are giving infrastructure people who are giving water electricity everything we had mentioned all those things that all the offsite infrastructure is not developer cannot control that should also come into rara and approving authority should come under rara but somehow they said that this rara is only consumer focused act and we will not really would like to enter more than two parties into the air because the environmental they got different rules than these rules environment doesn't observe these rules it's of something else and corporate I think yeah I think there's any way a session on rara which is there post this and you know we can always have that discussion offline as well is there any more questions that we have I think we have time for one more question please could I request you to introduce yourself please before you ask the question oh yeah hi this is abhishek from and live financial my question to the panel is key in most of the cases when it comes to the public-private partnership you know once the government declares public-private partnership but still like behave like bureaucrats so what kind of what the partnership we can expect in the affordable housing segment which like government is proposing for the developers to come and join hand with them actually if you read today's ET times there's a nice article on public-private partnerships below Deepak Parik's article on affordable housing above and just I was reminded of that when you ask this question most even globally public-private partnerships are not as successful as they ought to be so that's number one number two in affordable housing as I see the budgets gave you a little bit of relief and the three-year tax holidays and the two and a half lakhs that EMI waiver and those two and a half city that you get between three to six lakhs those are all right steps in the direction now it may not be clearly in the domain of public private partnership from a pure financial perspective but from the developer perspective he's incentivized to go out and do affordable housing obviously within the parameters as defined and so he gets a financial benefit so that incentivize him there is also an incentivizing scheme for the guy who gets into the affordable housing and for the buyer so I think it's a it's a great shot in the arm let me say I'm very optimistic about the whole thing and saying that even the intent of DCR 2024 is to create one million homes and affordable housing so in public private partnership who's the largest owner of land the government of India or the state government so if they're able to give us land pricing is more or less rationalized over time you can build you can always manage the construction costs to give the right quality at the right price not the best quality at the lowest price it's always the right quality at the right price which is also the theme of highest one I'm sorry it should be sustainable nobody's going to put out his pocket and create a 5000 vice square feet construction cost and solidary thousand it's unviable so so so that's why public private partnership may or may not really be but I think the government's direction apart from not giving land if it is towards incentivizing this segment and we have to choose wisely and build as developers and are able to pass on those incentives to the buyers they should work see real estate as a sector is the largest provider of an infrastructure obviously both of them provide the largest amount of employment that doesn't take off because that's why my very optimism stems out an affordable housing and infrastructure are two critical areas that is wanting to be addressed and everyone out here agrees that it has to be addressed including the government and that's how they put up all those things in the in those budgets in the dcr if you look at it look at it from a tax perspective from an incentive perspective they've tried to address it so that's how this will move well is it moving at the great pace is it moving at a pace at which all of us like that's a matter to be debated but I think it's the step in the right direction and I could see a lot of focus having shifted including private equity funds or real estate funds which fund projects are now looking for those ticket size which are fitting into the contextual affordable segment in terms of developers who are developing that it could be anywhere from 25 lakhs given a bad location or kalyan or kajat or meral to a two crore location in bombay which is still affordable a lot of people think that 150 lakhs to two crores any decent house within the outskirts of Bombay or within the Bombay city limit afford that's how they will if I understood your question you're talking about any schemes available to landowner or developer scheme I am saying the government policies towards the the PPV model how you are looking at yeah so there are see as a as a going on schemes which are under in the MMR region most of the places where the corporations are there there one is a rental housing scheme which is an initiative of government and one is an affordable housing scheme these are the two schemes where incentives are given for the landowner or the developer for creating certain proportion of affordable housing stock in lieu of that the developer or the landowner gets an incentive fsi so that scheme is going on by the Maharashtra government actually in my view the current dcr is nothing but a ppp itself see today you buy tdr what is tdr government has come out with an enabling policy you hand over reserve land direct he has completely so this government in my view is the most smartest government what it has done is it has brought ppp on a complete decentralized what is slump it's a ppp the government has used the the regulation of fsi to make it a ppp where government is only regulating it and no way involved in it what is cluster development what is says development all this is nothing but ppp what is redevelopment so in my view i think as i said in my earlier talk also the government needs to do only three things if you want to make affordable housing a reality number one give the infrastructure give the connectivity and give water electricity sewer and a quality of life and sanitation and make it so clear cut with a time bound schedule that no environmentalist no p il no court would come and say yes i will stop this development because suddenly pan will is going up are you what will happen well there is a program that those 10000 homes will get their water on time that's the first thing that government needs to do the second thing that i would feel the government would need to do is to ensure that all kinds of approvals whether it's at the central level whether it's at the state level or whether it is the local level is available on time and once that approval is granted it should not be withdrawn or taken away if these two things are done by the government and third is viability of business today the cost of approvals in terms of like say today in redevelopment if 100 rupees is the sale price if mr sridhar comes and buys a home from mayfair or marathon or godrej and he's paying us 100 rupees 36 to 45 rupees out of that 100 i'm telling you on the top line revenue goes into the cost of tdr fungible fsi open space development premium land under construction so on and so forth so there is no viability left in the business where you can really make a scheme affordable so they need to cap that if 100 rupees is the sale price the max premium that the government should take is 15 rupees to 20 there should be a cap so then only the prices can come down by 25 30 percent and then only the prices can actually become affordable so this is the simple thing that the we want the government to do and my last wish as i told again i hope one day one of us i mean when i say one of us an architect or a developer or somebody becomes the c.m. of marascha or the p.m. of the country then only affordable housing will be solved thanks a lot and on that note thank you very much thank you for your patience i think there is you know the next panel that is there so thank you everybody well thank you very much i'm going to request all our panel members to please remain on the stage and after the group photograph of course i'm going to be inviting mr. vijay manot of supreme industries uh limited to please come on stage to present a token of gratitude to all of our panel members