 The month is almost over. It is. The super maps bundle promotion. Hooking you up. We'll be ending. The super maps bundle includes all of our maps program, maps anabolic, maps performance, maps aesthetic, maps anywhere, and then maps prime. You can utilize them all together. It's about a year's worth of exercise programming. It's everything. Not only is it a year's worth, it's probably something you'll never need another program after this because the way we've designed it until we release another one between that and the free, between that and the free YouTube channel that we have that actually complements all the programs. So you have a ton of exercises. I mean, you're talking about hundreds of different exercises and ways that you can create your program for yourself. You're set for life. And each program comes with, of course, exercise demos, blueprints on how your workout should be done. Each one is broken up into phases. It's extremely comprehensive. It's literally everything you need. Well, this month enroll in the super maps bundle and you will get for free the no BS six pack formula and the advanced training technique occlusion guide. That's this month. If you want to check that out, go to mind pump media.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. On the next episode we do just don't let Justin talk. No, no, no. Every time he goes, it's new. So what I was saying, Sal, actually, no, no, no, what I think we should do is not talk. Guys, guys, it'll be like one word, one word. What do you think, Justin? Yeah, tell us more about that. Actually, well, I'm done. I got so I got to say, you know, somebody was asking asking us the other day, you know what will happen? We'll end up getting feedback. And people will be like, that last episode was the best episode. We have like a million downloads. Yeah, I'm like, oh, my heart. It will be because everybody already hates on us, dude. Everybody loves Justin. It's only because they don't get enough of me. They barely get like little nuggets of me. The same strategy that you've talked about that you're supposed to use to attract women. Absolutely. Fuck. Yeah. That's my same philosophy. I used to say this, the greatest close ever is the takeaway close. Yes. The greatest close is the takeaway close. Women have perfected this for hundreds of years. Well, that's their default. Yeah. It's built into them. Take away. Because they've got something to take away. They do. They hold the keys in that for us. What is it with that? That's true. The keys of the Ferrari. Actually, let's be honest, guys. Let's be truthful now. Let's be 100% honest here. If you guys were women with equal hotness, in other words, you know, how hot you are as a man, if you were, you just move over. Like, so I'm a six as far as a male, so I was a six woman. So now you're just whatever you are now as a male, you're a woman. You're a solid seven. How long would it take you before you ruled the world? You know? Yeah. Think about that. Not very long. I mean, either that or I would, or I'd swoop up some sugar daddy. Here's an experiment. Here's an experiment. If I was a chick, I would totally take advantage of that. I don't, I would spy. People that hate on gold digger chicks, I'm like, yeah, more power to you. I would learn all the information that every, you know, needed to be known. You ever think about that? Like some people, people that hate on that, I feel like that it's such a mutual relationship. It is, dude, because you got a fucking ugly, old dude with a hot ass chick. People always think like, oh, he's so stupid. She's totally using it for his money. It's like, are you kidding me? The guy's a multi-millionaire. He's letting her, he's getting her some nice car. You know what that means to him? Nothing. It's trickery. He would blow that money at a strip club. Now he's got a full-time hottie. This is stuff. Yeah. Here's an experiment. Adam, you're a good-looking guy. You're fit. You're tall. You get a nice beard. I'm a seven. You're a nice rack. Go outside right now and be like, hey, free dick. Just scream it. Well, it depends. Because if you're up north a bit, you might get takers. No, no, no. I'm talking about right here. If you're out, you're in the city. But do it here. Walk outside. It's free dick, everybody. And just scream it out loud. I got some free dick. Who wants free dick? And then see how long it takes before you get arrested. Now if you're a woman and you go outside like, hey, you're a seven or whatever you think you are. I think you're more like a nine, but whatever. Thank you. You go outside, nine out of 20. You go outside. And you're like, hey, free pussy. You'll have a, okay, get in line, gentlemen. I want this. But let's be honest. Let's create a single file line. Goes around the block. Sure, but I mean, there's a point. It's like, you got to get the proper materials because you're not going to just dive right into that. What do you mean? That's scary situation right there. For the dick? No, just like, if it's free, why is it free? Well, yeah, it'd be suspect. Like nobody's going to jump on that. So right away, there'll be some bum like, you know, coming out of the trap cam. Most intelligent man, most intelligent man would be like, wait a second. Where's the camera? Yeah, where's the catcher? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did my girlfriend said to you? What is she? How old are you? This is definitely a trap. This is a trap. I've seen this movie before. Yeah, but you know what they would do though? They'd actually sit there and try and figure it out because they're like, this might be... I know. Is this one of those situations? Is this real? And then they'd call their friends like, hey bro, listen. Yeah. Come down here real quick. She has a sign. It seems legit. It might be a good... This might be a deal here. That's all. That's all I'm saying. All I'm saying is... Speaking of signs, did you see the sign that Justin pointed out, the billboard? What is it? You didn't see it? It's called squirt.org. Squirt.org. Squirt. Google that right now. I did. Oh, shit. It's like a hookup app or something. Yeah, but it's weird though. It's like for gay dudes, right? It's not just gay dudes. Not just gay dudes? Oh, god damn it. I think the guys look like squirt. It is. It's gay hookups. And you know what's fucking stupid? I knew it. You know what sucks is now it's forever saved in my fucking search because I look it up? Squirt. God, from never. I was driving home and it was like this huge billboard. My girlfriend's gonna type in something that starts with an S and it's like squirt.gay hookups. I just thought that was... Yeah, that was interesting. Oh, I see what's going on there. The name's great. I mean, it's marketable. It is marketable. Are we doing an intro here? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so we should probably get to that. Let's talk about who we just interviewed. Badass. Tony Jeffries. And he came with his partner, Kevin Watson, who... Great dudes. Oh, man. Started an awesome fitness business called Box and Burn in Southern California. But the thing about these guys is that... So it's a boxing-based workout in a class setting. It's actually done pretty well and they monitor heart rate and do all that stuff. But they're actual boxers. Like Tony was a 2008 bronze medalist in the Olympics. And one of the things that they talk about in this episode you're about to hear is how they make sure that the fundamentals are taught. They're actually gonna teach something in a class setting. It's not just gonna be a bunch of... Yeah, aimless movements. Yeah, Tony also hosts a podcast called Box in Life. And he actually interviewed us on that podcast. You can actually find our episode. He's got an awesome, thick English accent. Yeah, he's a fucking great guy. Oh, he's a super champ too. He's a bronze Olympic medalist. Bronze medalist. He was undefeated. He actually retired undefeated professionally. So he's a pretty cool guy. They also have a Box and Burn Academy, right? This is where they're... You can get CEU credits as a personal trainer if you're certified through... This is what I thought was one of the most interesting things for me because I think if this was around when I was training clients... Oh, no break. ...because I used to use hand pads. And I'll be the first to admit I was very reluctant to do it for a long time because I didn't want to be that asshole. Right. Like I didn't want to be the asshole who's like teaching... Just wear you out by hitting stuff. Yeah, well, I really, truly have no business teaching someone how to throw a punch because I think I kind of can or I've had some sort of training. You know, so I did it with clients for cardio purposes. But really, if they had a certification where I was getting CEUs towards my NASM... What you're going to need anyway. ...or all the jump on that for sure. Yeah, I would have been all over that. Yeah, you have to get... If you're NASM certified, you know, to maintain your certification, you have to get certain... And it wasn't just NASM. A bunch of them recognized. We said NASM because most... Obviously, if it's NASM recognized it, most all other major certifications... And so you can get this certification, learn how to teach your clients, you know, how to hold mitts for them and do boxing drills with them. It's a boxing box and then the letter N, burnacademy.com. And then they have one of their certifications happening in Las Vegas on March 5th. It's the Las Vegas Academy and there's a discount code. It's Vegas 100. It'll actually take $100 off to enroll for this certification program. So it's boxinburnacademy.com. Use Vegas 100 as your code to get $100 off. And then lastly, you can find Tony Jeffries and Kevin Watson's Instagram page at boxinburn, B-O-X-N-B-U-R-N. And that's it. So here we are interviewing Tony Jeffries and Kevin Watson from Boxinburn. Check it out. Do you know what it is? We're Americans. They think England's Europe. They think, oh, you're from London. I'm like, no, I'm from the north of England. That's London. I'm like, no, people think the country England's called London. Europe's like America. Or Europe's like California where it's not. So I mean, I've got no idea where that is. Or they'll come up to me like, oh, you're from England. Do you know my friend, you know, John? Like it's the size of a house. Yeah, so let's get into this a little bit. Let's get into this. Let's do this. So our boys from Boxinburn are down here hanging out with us. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the gyms that you guys have. First of all, how'd you guys meet? How did you and Kevin meet each other? So we met, I was a professional boxer and when my hands were recovering, I was in LA, staying in LA because I used to train here and my hands never recovered. I retired from boxing. I applied for a job in a gym and I went to a gym in Santa Monica where Kevin ran the boxing program in there. And we kind of left that gym, started a bootcamp on the beach in Santa Monica for donations. Wait a second, backup right here. Yeah, there was a lot of shit there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hold on, I want to note, because you're an Olympic medalist, right? Bronze medal, right, 2018. Okay, yeah. You go in, you meet a guy who's teaching boxing at a gym. Right. Was there any like little posturing going on here at all? Was it love at first sight? No. Did you have to whoop his ass one time? Yeah. Then all of a sudden there's this huge respect. What happened right there? No, there was a lot, there was a few people teaching boxing in this gym, but Kevin was the only one that was doing it correctly and he was smashing it and people loved him. And then me and Kevin, we hit it off, we got on great. Right away. Yeah, right away. And then. We met on Grindr as well. Just like your boys did. Yeah, and then we left the gym and we went down the Santa Monica beach and we'd done a bootcamp for free. We were loving it. We were loving teaching boxing and we were passing about it and showing people what boxing is all about. And we just grew. We exploded. Yeah, I got a question for you on this because boxing is an incredible sport, a very technical sport. It's been called an art by many people, a science by other people. And you see a lot of gyms. And I used to hate this. Okay. And I hope I'm not offending anybody. Well, I don't really care if I am, because I'm sure I am. But I used to hate seeing trainers get the mitts out and do boxing with people. And I'm not a professional. I'm not a great boxer by any means, but I know what boxing looks like when I see it. And I see these guys throw up and I'm like, you have no business holding mitts for someone. Why don't you just have them jump rope or run in circles because that's all they're doing is they're trying to burn calories. Do you guys get irritated by that kind of stuff? Because, I mean, especially with your pedigree. Yeah. Well, we see that all the time and that's why we started our boxing burn academy. So it was like none of these trainers now here they know what the hell they're doing when they try to teach boxing. Let's teach the trainers. So Tai Bo is not. How to teach boxing. Yeah, exactly. And that's what it is. And it's normally when you go into a boxing class in a gym, it's normally one trainer screaming at people, come on, punch the bag harder, punch the bag faster. And it's bullshit really. And we come away from that. We teach the real art of boxing in a fitness environment. So people actually learn. They get a workout, but they also learn the proper technique. They learn how to box. Yeah. Is the academy separate from the boxing burn or is it actually in the boxing burn? How does the academy work? The academy is separate to boxing burn. The academy, like I said, it's where we teach trainers how to teach boxing. We put on like four or five events a year where we get like 30, 40 people coming in and for a one-day course. And yeah, when we teach them, it's great. And we're getting lots of success from that. It's like a side business. We use all the trade secrets we've learned over, we've probably taught over 10,000 people how to box now. And so all those trade secrets we've kind of learned and gained over the last five, six years that have trained all these people. That's what we kind of show and lighten people with the academy. Excellent. Yeah, it's a fantastic workout. But in my experience, when you have people who understand how to box, teach it, it's a completely different experience. People leave learning something. They're not just throwing their arms around. And so that's why I asked that question. Yeah, well, how do you... Glad that that was the answer. Yeah, and how do you start, like so somebody is never like has no experience with boxing and then you're going to throw them into a class setting. Like, how do you guys approach that? I know that would be a bit challenging. Yeah, so we've come up with a system how to teach someone how to box within like seven minutes. Obviously, they're not going to be a great boxer in seven minutes. Okay, Doug, we're definitely doing a YouTube after this. Yes, how to box in seven minutes. We actually have mits. We have mits. Oh, you have? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watch, I'll show you. I'll teach him how to box. We will. We're going to do a YouTube. So if you're listening to this, we will do a YouTube followed up with the boys. And you'll be very surprised... Have you boxed before, Doug? No. You'll be very surprised how good he looks after seven minutes of working with us. Oh, we're all doing it. I want to do it. Pressure on me. Now I'm going to look good, right? Well... I hope you've got coordination. He's probably going to take more like nine to 12 minutes at least for Sal because he's not athletic. Actually, I wouldn't say that. He's on a bit of a spectrum. I wouldn't say that before we do it because at the end of the day, he's going to give us a ranking. And we'll see who learns the best. All right, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I spoke too soon. So do you have... You obviously boxed professionally. You fought for a long time. You have experienced coaching fighters as well. Yeah, I coached MMA fighters. Brendan Shabba was his head trainer for his last three fights in the UFC. Yeah, awesome. Yeah. And before I started training him, I never really watched MMA or watched the UFC at all. And he came in the gym. Well, you were training him before you ever seen him or did you? Yeah, no, before. He came to me for a boxing session and he absolutely loved it. And when he came to me, he never had a trainer who was organizing his camp. He was a bit everywhere. So I was asking him, I was like, why have you not got a trainer who's telling you to do this or a sport he would do this there? And he's like, well, I'll love it for you. And then I kind of went into it and then I started studying MMA and in the UFC and the heavyweight division, especially because that's where he was in. And I fell in love with MMA, which is weird for a boxer to say that. Yeah, there seems to be a rivalry. Yeah, there is. Between the two of them. There is. But I mean, I've been around boxing since I was 10 years old. I'm 31 now, even though I look younger. Right? Yeah, absolutely. I was going to say 27. So I've been about boxing for years and I've sat there ringside for thousands and thousands of fights and it gets a bit boring unless it's your friend fighting for me. So now this MMA, I kind of love it. So when I was training Brennan, it was a great opportunity for me to learn something new. And I mean, he did all right with me. I mean, I see that he won one out of three. He should have won two out of three. But yeah, so that's my experience with MMA fighters. I trained Wanda Rosie a couple of times as well. She came to the gym and I worked with her. When she was thinking about leaving her trainer, she never left him. She stopped with him. Maybe she should have left him. Right, she probably should have stuck with you, bro. Yeah, that was about two years ago. So yeah, I mean, that's my experience with them. But really, I don't want to train fighters. If I'm training anyone, I want to train trainers, how to teach boxing. Because now I'm spending the boxing thousands of people. I can train, well, we can train 200 trainers that we've done last year. How to teach boxing. Them 200 trainers can go and teach 100 people each. And now we've sped in the boxing burn method to thousands of people around the world. I love your attitude about what got, you've stated boxing since you were 10. What got you into boxing to begin with? Yeah, well, I'm from a place called Sondland in the northeast of England. It's right next to London, right? Yeah, well, I'm from Europe. I'm from Europe. And so, my uncle was a professional boxer. He wasn't the best. And I just got dragged to the gym when I was 10 years old. And I mean, when I say dragged, I mean dragged to the gym. I wanted to pull outside and be a little shit with the rest of my friends from the neighborhood. And you're still a little shit. So, and then when I was 13, I was the champion of England and schoolboy champion. I was like, wow. And now I'm 14, I got picked a box for England. I was representing me currently out of 14. And you know, I was thinking, wow, I'm pretty good at this. Then 15, I won the title, 16 with the title. I'm captain in the England boxing team, which was a massive achievement for someone where I'm from. And then obviously I got put, when I was, now when I was 16, I got put on an eight year training program for the 2008 Olympics in the year 2000. So I went through them eight years of training, intense training, and then went into the Olympics. And like we said, we've got a bronze medal. Well, a lot of people don't realize. Let me back you up on this whole training because I'm always interested with someone at your level. And also the fact that you're in a leadership position now where you're teaching trainers how to train others. You know, when you look back and you assess yourself, do you think like how much of this was genetics, hard work, the right coaching? What do you attribute a lot of your success to going through that? That's a great question. And I think it comes down to a lot of things as well, a little bit of luck. You know, you need to have a little bit of luck. So when you're fighting the Olympics, you get a draw. Before you fight the Olympics, you get a draw. You can fight the champion. You're first fighting. You'd be out and you know where you were. But I mean, obviously the number one thing is hard work and dedication. You've got to be dedicated. Like I'm 17, 18, 19 year old. All my friends at our party and drinking in England, I'm out on the road running, putting miles in and at the gym two, three times a day. So it's a massive sacrifice. I can speak to this. Tony works his ass off harder than a lot of people I've ever seen in my entire life, but he's not the most coordinated person in the world. Try to take him out to the basketball court. Any American sport, try to throw a football. I can't do it. But I'm telling you right now, he worked his ass off to get to where he was. It's pretty inspiring to see. Yeah, you know, is it common to see fighters who are excellent at fighting, but be bad at other sport? I saw that quite a bit when I would grapple and whatever, like these guys who were extremely talented at, you know, Judo or Jiu Jitsu or boxing. And then they'd go play another sport. I mean, I'm not terrible. I mean, I might not be as good as you. Why is it called football? I mean, when you threw it, you know. I agree with that. You know, a lot of people don't realize that England has a rich history in the sport of fighting, boxing. It goes back a very, very long time. And there's a culture of it. You know, I had a very close friend of mine who was from England and he used to tell me, yeah, you know, we'd go out and he grew up in a rough neighborhood, but he'd say, yeah, we'd go out and drink and we'd get in fights and then we'd all drink afterwards. And I've heard that from more than one person. Yeah, I mean, it sounds about right. That's what you do from where I'm from. You'll have a fight, you shake hands at the end. I would drink with a person, you know. But yeah, I mean, ever since I learned to walk when I was two, three years old, my granddad was in a boxing stance, punching his hands, trying to learn as boxing, you know. So it's something that was kind of embedded in us. And I mean, it's been a really tough journey. I've had like four or five surgeries on my elbow and my eye, my hands. And I've took so many punches to the head, took a lot of punishment. You know, I did some maths and I had 106 fights in my career, 106 fights. Now, for each one of them fights, I've sparred 10 times, right? And see, each one of them spars was six rounds. Each one of them rounds, I've got punched in the face seven times. The total number anywhere comes to over 50,000. So I've been punched in the head over 50,000 times. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy when you think of that like that. Wow. Yeah. That's why I look about 50. I'm 31. You know, you can still remember things. You know what? You're not that ugly though, for that many times. I gotta say it. But you know what's funny? I've done that maths. I've done it on one of my podcasts and I come out of the room where I've done it and I was like, wow, I've been punched. That's got to affect me. Imagine like I would be a bit smarter, obviously, obviously, if you've been punched in the head. You'd be brilliant. You've got to be smart. So I come out of the, it was in the boxing gym and I've seen another former fighter then. I went, listen, I told him, 106 fights, 50,000 times. Wow. He went, well, I've had 265 fights. Imagine how many times I've been punched in the head. I'm not going to name his name, but he was in some wars. And I went, do you think it's affected you at all? Like your mind and all that. He went, nah, it's made me smarter. Fuck you now. 100% he's punchy. So yeah, I mean, all the punishment that's done on my body and on my mind, I wouldn't change it because if it wasn't for boxing, I wouldn't be sitting with you beautiful gentlemen right now. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think people have talked about fighting as being the purest or the most original. I would say the original sport, I mean, when you look at sports now, really, you look at football, you look at all these team sports and everybody gets behind their team. It's really an extension of what the primal instinct to watch your tribe fight another tribe for resources. And so fighting is kind of, it's just that it's about as pure as it gets, especially when you're hitting each other. I mean, you're in the ring, it's you and the other guy and that's it, man. One of us is gonna win, one of us is gonna lose. We're gonna hit each other, we're gonna respect each other at the end of it. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of fighting and what they see about mentally, it's mentally, it's so tough. You've got to be mentally strong. Getting in a ring in front of thousands of people having to fight. Scary. It's mad. I don't even know, it's legal, really. You know what I mean? It's mad. You're having to fight and he's trying to hurt you. You're trying to hurt him. So you've got to be. And you're following like these set rules, like, hey, we're gonna kill each other, but we're gonna follow these rules and not break them. And it's just, it's incredible. What goes through your mind when you get ready to walk into a ring? I'm always fascinated with like the fighter's mentality before I get in a lot more different, right? I've just done an Instagram post and I spoke all about the mindset because you're walking in the ring, your nerves have gone, your heart rate, your heart's beating fast. You're trying to keep calm. You're breathing and you're thinking, well, this is me personally. I think everyone's different. I'm thinking, I'm gonna hurt this fucker because if I don't hurt him, he's gonna hurt me. But at the same time, you don't want to get hit. There's so much going through your mind and then you're thinking about pleasing the crowd or not pleasing the crowd or making sure you're promoters happy with your performance because if he's not happy then my fight's won TV. So it was like, if I don't fight well, the TV network might drop me or whatever, so there's a lot going through your mind, but really when the bell rings, all I'm thinking about is hitting him hard and not getting hit. Wow, I have a boxing question for you. I trained a gentleman years ago who at the time, he's a lot older now, but back when I trained, he was 75 or 76 years old, much older gentleman, but he boxed in his youth quite a bit. He had a full-time job, but he also boxed for a long time. Old Irish guy and I'll never forget, 75 years old, one session, and he was telling me all these stories about, but I loved hearing his stories about his matches. And this, of course, was back in the day when, for a referee to declare someone a winner, he had to either be dead or completely knocked out. Like, they didn't stop fighting. Bear a knuckle. So it was just brutal, right? And I'll never forget, we were talking about boxing and he was kind of coaching me because I was asking him questions and he just hit me in the shoulder. It is a 75, 76-year-old man and I couldn't believe and he was fucking around. It wasn't like you're just the weight of his hand hitting me in the arm. And I told him, I said, holy shit, man, I said, you could easily knock me out. And he said to me, he said, the last thing to leave a boxer is his power or how hard his strength, how hard he hits. Is that true? That is true. I mean, I think the first thing that goes is your timing and then your speed, but the last thing that goes, I don't think it ever goes is your power. Did you ever see that video on Facebook that went viral about, there was an old guy who looked in his 70s or 80s and he was sparring with some young kids? I saw that. I was going to say, if anything, you get stronger. I think your power probably gets the old man's strength. I think that is very, very real in boxing. We talk about this and we attribute that to the central nervous system. And just living in your body and knowing it. So connected to every little muscle in your body and you've done this so many times repetitively, there's actually huge benefit to that, especially in something like boxing, right? Yeah, big time. Then once you get the technique down and learn to breathe and relax, I mean, the power will never really go. Wow. What about the ability to take a punch? Is this something that is genetic or can you learn how to move with a punch and how to take a punch? Because you see like there's fighters that just don't seem, they just got the head made out of cement. Yeah, I don't think you can get trained to take a punch. What's funny and I tell people is, you actually get used to getting punched in the face. Like, if I put a glove on now and I hit you like this hard, you'd be like, oh, fuck, I felt that. If you don't know me, I wouldn't feel it. Not that my face goes numb, but you get used to it, which is weird. But when you were talking about getting, you hear the phrase glass chin all the time, right? I mean, there's no training your chin. I really do think once you've been knocked out once or twice, luckily I never got knocked out in my life, but I think your durability goes and you start getting knocked out easier. It's just like football players. You see that? You know, once you have one cushion, they become more and more frequent. Wow. What was your, what were you known for as a boxer? I was like a box fighter, which is like, I'm gonna punch really hard and I'm not trying to blow my own tournament, but I'll punch really hard, but I will move my feet as well. So I think footwork is the best defense of a boxer. So that was my thing really. It's a scary thing to see this guy, or anybody, any boxer that is that size and has the speed and the footwork that they have, I mean, with the power. It's terrifying. Well, let's talk about that for a second, because for the layman, when you watch boxing, you don't notice footwork. It doesn't register. They're all focused on the punches, yeah. How important is footwork? What does that contribute to your ability of boxing? I'd say it's everything. If you don't have your feet, then you don't, nothing else is there. I mean, I think it's probably the same with, yeah, it's the same with most sports, you know, like in football, if you were to go hit somebody, you'd be a lot stronger if you're grounded and low, versus the same thing in boxing. I think it's very much, you know, everything. Like people thought Mike Tyson was just, if you punch, you knock yourself out. No one really thinks about Mike Tyson's footwork. It was amazing. If you, if you ever watch your Mike Tyson fight back, watch his feet, watch how fast his feet are, watch how he plants them when he foes the punches. That's what my client told me, the 75-year-old. We would talk about Mike Tyson, and that's exactly what he told me. Exactly. He said, Sal, he said, the reason why Tyson was so effective was his footwork. He could throw a hard punch from almost any angle, because he knew how to place his feet so well. He said about his one weakness, and I mean, I would love your opinion on this, was that he didn't have good balance, I guess, going backwards. And I think when he boxed Buster Douglas, Buster Douglas just kept double and tripling his jab, pushing him back, and he wasn't able to get it. Yeah, I mean, it was hard from the box and the back foot, but like, there was just another style. Yeah, there wasn't very many fighters who could punch Mike Tyson on his back foot, right? And fuck what you want to try doing that. You know what, I'm glad we went this direction, because I actually love when we get someone with your knowledge, which also, I think, has got to be annoying. Is it annoying for you to sit and watch a boxing match or a fight with guys that don't know shit about fighting, yelling at the screen? Oh, left, oh, you should have, oh God, he goes, I can't believe he pretty much hands him like that, right? But when you have venues, you get advice, knock him out, knock him out. What do you think I'm trying to do in there? I mean, I remember hearing that, I'm in the ring fighting, and it's like, cool, Tony, knock him out, knock him out, hit him, hit him. Like, what, all right, that's a good idea, let's do it. So, you know, let's go through some fighters that are currently fighting right now, like the Mayweathers, and like, who impresses you, and what's something that maybe the average person doesn't really know about some of these fighters that you hear? There's a guy called Triple G, have you heard of him? I have heard of him. Yeah, he's a beast, he's from Kazakhstan, and he's not one, everyone, I think he's got the record for the most knocked out in the middle of a division. Wow, he's smashed everyone. And the consecutive knockouts of any weight division. Really? Yeah, he's a beast, and not very many people heard of him. If he was marketable, if he had a mouth like Mayweather, that's why, if Mayweather wasn't flashy and he wasn't mouthy, he would be unheard of, he wouldn't be a gazillionaire like he is now, but because he's got that mouth and he can talk and he can sell his shit out of fights, that's why he's so successful. Same as Muhammad Ali. That's how Muhammad Ali was probably one of the first fighters to do that, right? Yeah. I mean, as a matter of fact, you know, again, my old client, he used to talk about these stories all the time, and he'd tell me, listen, you know, Ali, especially at that time, especially if you were an African-American fighter, you came in, you showed up, you were polite, thank you very much, I'm a fight, whatever. I think Jack Johnson was flashy, but he was, he got in a lot of trouble for it in those times. Here comes Muhammad Ali acting like, you know, he's reading poems, he's acting crazy, and he intimidated a lot of his opponents because they didn't know what was going on. There was that famous picture of him knocking down, what's his name? Sonny Liston. And Sonny Liston was quoted as saying, like, I'm not afraid of any man, except for a crazy man. Very effective. So, I mean, with that marketing, like, if Muhammad Ali wasn't like that, it would be just like most heavyweights, not very well heard of, but like, with Triple G, he's fine, he's not marketable, but he's fighting's marketable because he's knocking everyone out, so people want to see him cost that. If he had a bit of a mouth as well, he would be like a household nimble. Everyone usually will all heard of him, you know? But he's, for me, he's one of the best fighters around now. And that comes down to his amateur days. When he was an amateur, he must have had 200, 300 fights, but no one really knows him because he's from Kazakhstan. So some smart promoter has went to there and found him, like, this guy can fight. Let's bring him to America and try and model him. And now, now he's smashing it. Now he's doing really well. What about throughout all boxing? Who are some of the ones that are just stand out to you that you like to look up to or? My favorite one is Roy Jones Jr. Oh, I love Roy Jones Jr. God, he was fun to watch. Oh, he was the best to watch. Great movement. In his day, he's still fighting now, though. It's like, mate, you should have retired like 10 years ago or whatever it was. But he's killing his legacy now, but he keeps fighting and keep getting knocked out. After Tarver, right? After that Tarver era. Yeah, right. Yeah. But he was amazing. I don't know if you've heard of Prince Nazim Hamid. Yeah. Yeah, you have? Absolutely. Right, yeah. I mean, you're an English listener as long as we are. He was so entertaining, so flashy. Very. The same big mouth and he could back me up as well. What about the different styles of boxing? You know, you have like, you know, the Mexican fighters and then the English fighters. Right. You've got, is there truth to that? Russian fighters, are there different camps where they train differently? Or you could tell like, oh, I can tell where you've been training. Yeah. I mean, someone told us before, I don't know if it's true, about Mexicans got hard schools. Like they can take like ridiculous punches. Well, then they say Triple G is a Mexican style fighter. He trains with the, what's his trainer's name? The Mexican guy. Yeah, Abel Sanchez. Abel Sanchez, yeah. And... Yeah, Chavez had that reputation. I think that's probably the one who started that, right? Right. Rock Art School. I remember I was training for a professional fight and the Mexican national team come in, the champions. And I sparred with the light heavyweight done four rounds with him. I was hitting him with everything and he was coming forward. I was like, this is for easy. And then the heavyweight got in and I was hitting him with everything but I was getting tired and these fuckers were just coming and coming and coming and then I ended up getting my head punched in for the last two rounds because I was knackered. You see what I mean? You said the same about the Russian far Eastern European style as well. Yeah, thems the same. Like non-stop, they can take a punch and like this Triple G we're talking about as well. Absolute beast and I think more Eastern Europeans is going to be coming onto the professional boxing scene though. Ruslan Provodnikov has been to some wars. You also watched the Provodnikov, Bradley, you've watched that fight. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is a scary fight to watch but it's amazing. Because after that fight as well I think Tim Bradley, he's brain was bleeding. He went into a coma, right? Sounds like he's been the same. No, he's not been the same since. Several wars. It's so dangerous, you know, it's so dangerous. I mean these styles where the Mexicans getting punched in a lot of time. Now, not until I've retired from boxing, I realize just how dangerous boxing is and I mean, you only get one mind. So this is funny. So I told you, I've been punching the face over 50,000 times. I start thinking because I did get forgetful. I still am a bit forgetful, losing stuff and shit and being lax and dizzy. And I was getting worried about it and I was telling my wife, my wife's an emergency room nurse. And she was like, oh, well maybe you should get checked out and then I've got a friend, Oddly Harrison, who was Olympic champion. I told him about it and says, do you have any problems with this? He says, go to this Cleveland Clinic in Vegas to do all brain studies for boxes and stuff. So I went to Vegas and got a brain scan, done these tests where you're sitting on a computer and you've got to remember numbers that they put on the screen and type them down. And it was balance tests. And it was pretty scary. And then after I got the results and the results came back, I was normal for a 31 year old. This was recent. And then the doctor called us. He says, well, we found something on your brain. Everyone's brain, you might know this, is attached to the skull by a membrane, right? He says, your membrane's got a real big split in it. And I was like, shit. And that was through boxing because when you get punched in the head, you bring rattles in your skull. And with the rattling, it's ripped this membrane. He said, there's nothing, no evidence that shows that affects you every day of life. But like 50% of boxes that we test have had this problem with the membrane. And they're in that blood brain barrier zone. No, no, that's just, yeah, that's something different. But that's, that's fascinating. But they didn't, they don't know if that means it. Yeah, they don't know. But otherwise your performance was. It was all right, yeah. But it was scary. It's scary. You know that you've got a rip on your brain. Right. Through boxing. That sounds hella scary. Yeah. Well, that can't be good for you, right? Right. Yeah. You know what they're finding now? Yikes. They're finding now cannabinoids. Cannabinoids are the molecules found in marijuana. Do a tremendous job of preventing, you know, brain damage or preventing, hemorrhaging, preventing, you know. Give a try. You won't ever. He will never. No, no, no, no, no. And there's a big push to use it now to allow NFL players to use it because they're finding that through the repetitive, you know, you know, slamming on the skull or whatever that under the influence of cannabinoids or cannabinoids after reduces inflammation, reduces that runaway, you know, inflammation that then can later on turn into things. Right. They're finding that it stops things or prevents things like Alzheimer's and other degenerative disorders. And it could be any cannabinoid, CBD being one of them. And the second thing is our ketones. Ketones, which your body produces when you eat a ketogenic diet or you can supplement with ketones nowadays. They sell them and they find that the brain just operates better and heals better under ketones. So something to look into. I've told a few of my friends who are fighters. Yeah, I'm not going to start small on Paul. So I want you to take us back to when you mentioned you guys training on the beach. This interests me and I'm really interested and fascinated with your business model and what drove you that direction because about four years ago, my buddy, Brennan Abadazio, gave me a call and wanted me to help him start up his orange theory. And when I looked at it, I was like, man, this is really smart. It's a smart business model, been in fitness for a long time. I kind of saw the direction. I knew that this one-on-one training was getting really expensive and a lot of the average people couldn't afford it and the economy that where we were going. But yeah, people knew they needed help and guidance. And so these smaller classes or private-type gyms were on the rise. And I thought it was brilliant with the way they incorporated the heart rate monitor. So what led you guys to that? And how long were you doing the free thing on the beach? Like what did that look like? I mean, enlightening. What led us to this? Well, initially, again, before Tony came to this other gym, they had had some success with their boxing program. I came in and then Tony came in. We really started to get more numbers, get more people there. And initially, we only had two stations. We were doing heavy bags and mitts. And because there were more people, we had to find a way to allow more people in the door. So we added a third station, which is the strength conditioning station. So we did that and it all worked out. It yielded great results. People loved it. How many years ago was this? This was about a little over six years ago. Or right, it's like five, yeah. Between five and six years ago, yeah. And people loved it. Just people really attracted to it and they kept coming back. And we knew we were onto something and we've made fine tunings here and there as we've gone. Obviously, as we've grown, classes have gotten bigger and more people have come. So it just, I don't know. Well, tell me about that. What are some of the learning curves that you went in? You guys really have created something. Even though you have a similar type of model, you mentioned that we've emulated some of the things that they're doing, but you guys have really created something that no one else has really done. I'm fascinated with that. I'm also interested with the evolution of that. You went from working for a company where you had one or two, three stations, really like, oh, shit, there's a business here. Then you take it out to a beach where you have more flexibility, it sounds like. You could create what you want to create because it's yours. When we went to the beach, we were on there doing, like I said, donations only, boot camps. And we loved it. We were passionate about it. And we had Mickey Rock was the investor. You know, Mickey Rock? Yes. He was supposed to be investing in the gym. So when he was out of town for a movie, me and Kev were searching the streets of earlier for a facility. We found one. We invested all of our money into the gym where Mickey was supposed to be combatting. He was supposed to be giving us 100 grand. That's what the deal was to invest because our boot camp blew up. And then he came back and we never agreed on some of the terms that he wanted to change. So he was out. He was out. So that was the best thing that happened to us. Now it's just two of us rather than three of us. Wow. So you guys had counted on that extra $100,000. What did you do at that point? Well, we invested everything into that. But by this point, when he got back from the movie, it was like month two, we broke even. We don't need that. There was no initial investment. I mean, yes, there was to sign the lease and they get in the door, get the keys. We paid first month and second month to rent to get in. But aside from that, we were in an empty warehouse. And we just kind of, we literally just reinvested money as we grew. So what inspired that model? I mean, did you guys look at CrossFit and go, oh, this is smart. Did you look at Orange Series? I don't even know if Orange Series around yet. At that point in LA, no. Yeah, I bet they weren't. Yeah, they were in Florida still, man, and came over yet. We kind of just created it. And it was people who all loved it and people keep coming back. Since we started, Dear One, we've changed quite a bit as you evolve. But now the model, the business model that we've got now, I mean, the class model we've got now is fantastic. People love it. We got the point where we were having like 60, 70, nearly 80 people showing up for a class where we're like, shit, we can't even, we kind of put these people in there. So we had a couple of classes. So we've knocked all out back and now keeping the quality high with 30 people in the class. And we've got, like I said before the podcast, we've got wait list at 20 people on a night coming for the facility, which for us is amazing because in LA, there's a gym on every single corner. It is. So for them to come to us and beyond wait list and stuff, I mean, it's great. It says a lot. If you're successful in LA, if you open up several in the LA area and they're successful, you could probably be successful in almost any metropolitan area. So you open up, that you open up, get your lease, two months, you guys are starting to break even already. How many classes a week are you holding right now at that point? Probably 12, 12, around 12. Yeah. Was it just you two guys keep teaching them at this point? That and we had Glenn as well. Yeah. We had one more guy teaching and then, yeah. And then the classes started to get busier, word of mouth. Yelp was massive for us. And we blew up. And then within 18 months, like I said, we have not many people coming. I was like, what we're going to do? Let's open another location. So we opened our second location in Brentwood. If you're familiar with Brentwood, it's a nice area. And now we've got a list on that, in that one as well. You know, so it's like our plan is to open the third location. But at the same time, we've got this Boxingbird Academy. But we, what we both really love and do and where we teach in the trainers, the education program, but that's really took off and people's flying around there a lot. So now, how does that work? So someone takes your, they go to your Boxingbird Academy, they learn your techniques, the way that they put the structure to classes together. Is that what they do? No, we learn them how to teach Boxing, how to hold the mitts, how to teach someone, like Doug, who comes to you for training, teach them how to box and then hold the mitts and push them on the heavy bag and do a box in specific warm-ups and wrap hands, that sort of thing. It's, we have lots of success for it. Yeah, we're really trying to to kind of reach out to those trainers that, you know, because every client these days, now they want to be involved, they want to do Boxing, they want to do kickboxing, something. And like you mentioned earlier, you know, you see a lot of trainers at gyms looking just downright foolish trying to hold the mitts. So, we're trying to cater to those people, fill that niche a little bit and really help them not look foolish, not how to train their clients, not to get injured and then an effective and safe. So, this is for personal training clients. Now, what about if someone wants to start teaching classes? Have you thought about doing certifications where they can take that and know what you have? Yeah, so we've done the Level 1, which is the basics of Boxing. We're doing the Level 2, which is more advanced Boxing mittwork. And then we're looking at the Level 3, which is going to be Boxing-specific, starting the Conditioning work and then talking about the business side of things, running classes and that sort of thing. We're going to build a whole school out of it, where you've got 201, 202, 203, and you've got 301, which is... But also, I think we want to use the academy and the whole curriculum as a way to kind of... We'll leverage that a little bit when we decide to grow even further. So, if there's going to be... We franchise at Boxingburn in New York. Everybody that's going to work for that gym has to come to us do all of that curriculum, go through all of that. Damn, that's smart. It's very smart. It's just what 24-hour fitness used to do. What's that pump work out, right? The guy that had that... Like, as a license, you'd come in and he... Body pump. Body pump, yeah. Something like that. I just see a way for you to be able to license the class and the curriculum and all that, and then it just influence all these gyms. So, franchising is in the future, then. Franchising or licensing, maybe. We get asked all the time. Don't want people around the world. Istanbul, India, even. England, Dublin, Ireland. We get asked all the time about franchising, but we're not ready. We don't want to franchise to make a quick book. Right, smart. We want to be ready, and we want to keep the quality in the Boxingburn brand high. And I can... Here's my guess as to why, because you're both actual boxers. Right. You know what I'm saying? So, you have pride in what you're doing versus, hey, I'm going to go into fitness and open a boxing gym, and then I'll just franchise the hell out of it. Like, you have pride behind what you're doing. Yeah, it's got to be right. Just like our certification course, it's got to be right. And one great thing about our certification course that we're getting is we're getting people telling us that they're starting... This is kind of a little sales pitch as well. They're making more money now because they're teaching their clients boxing. You know what I mean? So, it's giving them another tool in their arsenal to work out when they're doing personal training. It's open more doors, and they can train... They can cater to more people now, because, again, most... Just about any client these days wants to supplement their cardio or the resistance training with some sort of striking. Oh, I would have loved to have had this. I mean, being a trainer who... I have all the NASM certifications pretty much, most of the main ones, and always had to keep the CEUs. And so, in the fact that you guys are actual CEUs with them, I mean, that in itself would have been a no-brainer for me. Like, oh, and I love holding mitts for my clients. I would much rather be trained by a professional who teaches me plus get my CEUs. So, it's kind of a no-brainer if you are a trainer and you have to do your continuing education units and you want to hold mitts. I mean, you should learn how to do it the right way. I think that's awesome. Now, the two of you, I always love asking business partners, how do you guys complement each other? Like, who's got... What are your strengths? What are your strengths? What do you suck at? What's he suck at? What do you... What do you guys... I wanted to ask you guys the same question. Yeah. We're kind of like chalk and cheese. You're kind of like... What did you say? Chocolate and cheese? No, chalk and cheese. Oh, this isn't English. This isn't English. That's not English. That's not English. We're kind of different in a lot of ways. We clash a little bit like this on certain things, but Kev's got a degree in business. I've got business experience, but more street knowledge and street-wise with that sort of stuff. Kev's very organised and very patient where I'm a 100-man-an-hour and I want to... If it was for me, I would have had five gyms doing probably not very well now, but Kev, he's put the brakes on that and he's like, no, we need to get this system in place, this system in place, this system in place, which is great. We complement each other very well. We really do. That's what I would say. I think to go back before that, we are... We get... You can get to see you through NASA, but we also get ACE and IFFA or... What was that? Yeah, IFFA and ISSA as well. Nice. But yeah, I think we both have athletic backgrounds. I didn't start boxing until college. I had more of a traditional basketball, baseball, football background. Then in college, I went to University of Kentucky from Kentucky and had the privilege of working with the basketball program there under the strength coach, Todd Fourcier. He's the strength coach for the trailblazers now. So he kind of mentored me into the training world. I spent my whole life in the gym, but he really taught me the science of it and philosophies and theories and stuff. But so we have that athletic and training background, but yeah, I mean, he doesn't give himself enough credit. He really does have a lot of... He's very business savvy. He may not have a degree in finance, but he's very business savvy. He has a lot of great ideas, great at marketing, social media, all the online presence stuff. He's incredible at. And without that, we want to be where we are. University of Kentucky, I got degree in finance and business management, and then a master's in sports administration and coaching. So we've all kind of put all of those pieces together, and it's yielded great results. But yeah, I mean, we do balance each other out. There is a lot of friction. It is a marriage. I mean, it is that. But at the end of the day, we have to know how to communicate and speak our minds to each other and reach some sort of common ground. That common ground is usually a balance between what each of us is thinking and usually is the best decision. That's cool. Do you boys get into it? Yeah, absolutely. Who's the cock? Who's the fucking? That's the problem. We're all cocks. I'm probably the biggest pain in the ass to work out with all of us. Probably Doug would probably be the best one to answer who's the biggest pain in the ass that I've ever seen. Who was it, Doug? Doug's also very political. He's like, I've seen all of this. Yeah. He's a task master. Yeah. You know, I think what I found, I've had other partners in the past. I've had other businesses. And what I found that the success that we've had working together that really comes down to our ego or I should say lack of ego. I mean, we're all very confident, very, very confident in our ideas, very confident in what we do. But when we get down to it and we argue or debate something and it gets heated, at the end of the conversation, it's always what's best for me. Somebody, one of us will decide or whatever will decide, hey, your idea is better. Let's go with, or I still disagree. But you know what? Let's go with your idea because I just want what's best for the business. So I think what gets in the way of a lot of partnerships is that ego. One of them has to, they both have to be right. And at the end of the day, that's what destroys people. You think it's easy because there's three years than two years. Well, there's four of us because Doug is definitely, and we're a perfect four-way split. And out of all, each of us have definitely different strengths. I mean, we all... We reckon, that's it. We recognize them. I know what these guys are good at and I know what I'm good at and they know what I'm good at and we just work with that. Which I think, I think like let's, I mean, and I was going to dive into and we can in just a minute, the social media aspect and being guys in their 30s because I always like talking to guys that are 30 plus that are having to deal with this generation coming up bullshit. Right. So, you know, you'll take each one of us and like you guys have different, a little bit of different backgrounds, each of us have different backgrounds. Justin's actually the only one in here with his bachelors in business. Or excuse me, in Kenny's. Kenny's, yeah. Sal and I didn't finish our degrees. So we don't even have a formal education. But each of us have kind of specialties and expertise or things that we have strengths. And so maybe like I'm, I'm talking about something that might be in my strength that these guys are arguing and debating. Typically, if it's something that I'm strong and they'll, they might back off a little bit and allow me to take a little bit of lead even if they are debating. And the same thing goes for them. Like I'm not going to say, even though if I have a brilliant idea on how we're going to shoot this next footage or how we're going to do a green screen shot or sales and marketing thing. Well, I might be yelling and debating my argument. But at the end of the day, I'm going to let Doug probably have the final say because that is his expertise. Right. Even and the way he is, is he'll listen to all of us and take, take all that information. And I feel like we can trust him to come up with the best idea from there. So it's actually really. We call him the cat herder. Yeah. Because he's constantly trying to herd three cats, you know, the other. It's pretty magical how it all works. Right over the milk. But I actually wanted to ask you guys, because you're both in your 30s, right? You guys are 30 plus. What has it been like for you guys with the whole social media thing? What's that like for you? And do you feel like you're still learning that? Are you really good at that? Do you think that there's areas you need to improve? What's been your assessment as entrepreneurs and this generation now of building a business? I love social media. I've been on social media since the Myspace days and something that I've put a lot of time into educating myself on that. And now social media for the business is fantastic. You have to. It's the bet you've got to. Yeah, you've got to. And I think we're getting a lot of people coming to us, the gym and their academy through social media, through the Instagrams and not so much the Facebook. But yeah, I mean, it's really blew up and it's really helped the business by being on there and being consistent on there and posting the right things. It's massive for us. The thing about social media that was difficult for me initially was that you got to be on there. Right. You got to constantly be on there. It was very different from any of their... It's literally another job. It is. And you're married, you have many children. Yeah, two children. So how is that having to be on there? You shut it off after a certain time. Yeah, because I find that very challenging. It's hard. Last night was the first night that I'm starting this new thing where I'm switching me phone at 7 p.m. and I want to leave it off until the next morning at 7. So I might work 12 hours a day, 7 or 7, and switch it off and try and... Because you've got kids, right? Yeah. So it's hard because to get focused and switch off from work, especially when you're on that social media all the time. And that was one of the biggest struggles I had personally was switching off that night. So last year I was on the drink all the time because having a bottle of wine at night was great. To calm down. I'd calm down. I'd switch off. I'd just give me wife all the lovely time that she deserved. That's where the cameras come to play. You're right with me. I'm like, I like his influence. Switch that out and you're good. So switching off. And that is the toughest part, especially with social media, because it's non-stop, especially if you've got your notifications turned on on your phone, which I've turned all mine off, all of them off. Because that message you wrote, you're not your phone on flash, like I was just seeing yours flashing there. You look like, who's that? But yeah, I mean social media though, it's massive. It's great. It's great for meeting new people, great for networking. And yeah, we love it. Well, you seem to have a unique combination of qualities that you don't see a lot in fighters. Because you see a lot of boxers, or fighters do well in their sport. A lot of them don't do well, but a lot of them do well in their sport. And they don't know where to go from there. It's horrible. It's horrible. It's almost like, you know. That's not just boxing. I feel that's very common. But you see it a lot with boxers, like they'll stop or they'll keep going because they don't know what else to do. You lose your identity at that point. And they keep fighting past the point where they should, and they're doing a lot of damage to themselves. Or they'll stop and then they'll go bankrupt or they'll try and open a bar or they don't know quite to do. You seem like you got the business mind, charismatic and you enjoy talking and working with people. Which is you don't see too common in combination with that. Right. Now that's a great thing to see. Because you see all the time that boxers, like I said, I started boxing when I was 10 years old. I retired when I was 27. What's a person going to do when they've put that much time and energy into the boxing career? And then you see boxers go work on building sites, doing stupid shit. I never left school with any qualifications or any education. My education was boxing. So why not use that education in making a living out of it? And it's very rare that boxers do that. But I mean, I'm in LA and I work with Kevin and we've created something great. But I'm using that education for that. And I'm another, I think I'm an entrepreneur as well because I was the only one out of the boxes out of the Limbians who went into the Olympics and earned some decent money from boxing. Every time I had two fights, I'd buy a house. Now I've got five houses in England that's got tenants in and I'll make them money each month. Other boxes, they don't pay the taxes. They end up quitting boxing. I see a 27 and they've got nothing. They might have a few hundred grand in the bank but that soon goes down and the tax man comes and gets all of them. They've got a big tax bill. It happens all the time. It's hard to see. So I think I'm pretty smart in that way as a businessman. Here's the other thing too is that because you're still in it, it keeps you healthy and keeps you fit because you see a lot of these fighters. This is coming from a trainer perspective. I've worked with ex-high-level athletes quite a few times. Somebody who comes, they were Division I football player or wrestler or whatever and now it's 10 years later and they all have such a tough time maintaining their fitness and health because what they knew was so intense and so focused that after they got out of it, first of all they develop horrible eating habits because they were doing so much exercise before they could eat whatever they wanted. Some of them had to eat whatever they wanted so they could just keep weight on. But now they're done with that. All they know is tons of intensity. All they know is training at the super high level so to them it was all or nothing. Now that they're done, they just let themselves go and you see that a lot with boxers who they stopped boxing for five years and they're, holy shit, he put on 60 pounds. It's not uncommon. Yeah and I'm 60 pound heavy and not 60 pound, 40 pound heavy now that I was from the last fight which I dieted on a diet since I was 14 years old until I was 27. Yeah because you're by no means what I consider you overweight at all. You look fit. Yeah, I mean I look better than I really am. But not so when you stop boxing and it's like wow, I don't have to be on a diet anymore. You kind of eat twice as much as you would initially. Now I've calmed that down and I'm much better. Did you find that rebound afterwards? Like oh, I can do whatever I can eat all this food. Well when I retired from boxing I was undefeated in 10 professional fights after the Olympics I turned pro undefeated in 10 pro fights. And I retired, see I've got scars on my hands. I retired, I had surgery on my hands and I had no plan B because like I said, I had no education. I had nothing all I knew was boxing. So I got fat and I got depressed and I started drinking more and it was a really, really rough time for us. So it really was. How did you get out of that? Great family, my wife was amazing. Oh so you guys have been together for a long time? Yeah we've been together for a long time. Great business partner. Yeah that's true though, that's true because I met Kevin and then we started our own thing and my mind was occupied then, when you've got, if you're feeling down you've got to do something about it which I've done something about it. I could feel sorry for myself and sit at home, me hands were fucked, I should be fighting for a world title now I should be earning this and doing that. But now I got out, I was in that horrible place for a little bit. I got out of that place and now I put all my time and energy into something else. Strong mind. They talk a lot about the warrior and fighters in particular and some people say you're born that way, you're born a warrior, you're born a fighter and the toughest fight to fight after that is getting older because now you're no longer like, what are you now? I loved old school boxing, I watched lots of classic fights and you hear these guys talk about it afterwards and say, yeah once you're not a fighter, like what am I? Did you have any identity? Yeah. Well even now the toughest thing now being retired, I've been retired for four or five years now, is them the highs because when you have a high in boxing, it's not a normal high, it's through the roof, you're right up there. Right, you just conquered a man, you just won a title, like I can imagine what that feels like. Ultimate testosterone rush. It is. You're fighting in front of thousands of people, thousands of people on TV watching you and you get your hand raised and you're on top of the world and everyone's come up to you offering you free shit and you're getting invited to places, getting paid to open restaurants, open shops and all that. So you're in the public eye all the time, people's loving you and then when that all ends, it's like, shit, you're trying to chase that high again and you've got to really try hard to realize like you're never going to, like being on the Olympic podium, you know, what beats that? I've had two kids, people say the kids are the best time of your life, it's not. Being on the Olympic podium. I'm so glad some of the public keeps it real on here. I love my kids, but come on, standing up on an Olympic podium. I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you. And how do you find, how do you find that high again apart from taking heroin, which I'm never going to do? That's a real, that's a real, that's a real issue. I mean, that's a major, major issue. You peak, you know, especially with someone like you, who found success very young and your whole, like you, like that's like, reminds me of those stories. You hear this a lot of, like your actors and actresses, that like became actors and actresses as kids. And they were like super famous as kids and then where are they now? And they're all fucked up on drugs and a mess or something like that, because it is, they were trying to search for high. Yeah, right. And they couldn't, they can't reach it anymore. They hit that peak at 10 years old. You have no idea what it's like. So that's, he had the wherewithal, I think, to take that competitive edge and to, to change it and, and focus it in a new channel, which is business rather than, right. I mean, he's still incredibly competitive. As am I, but you know, I never was an Olympic, Olympian, my name means, but you know, he's, he's able to take all that energy that he would focus in his competitiveness and channel it to something different, which in a healthy way, which most people, most people who are athletes. Now that's a great point. Now because of that, because I think that's so true, do you find that there's, with comes with that, that competitive mentality, which I believe a lot of us have here. Right. Do you find that there's, there's things that go off in your head that I got to be careful of? Like I can't let my competitive nature drive me crazy or define who I am. Right. Do you find that there's, being older, wiser, gone through all that, knowing that, because I always say this, right, I believe, I truly believe this, that your greatest strength is always your greatest weakness too. Right. So, you know, let's, let's take that example, like being super competitive, because I think I'm, I'm very similar to that, that I have this total competitive thing and that's what drives me in success, but it also, because what get me in trouble, because I'm so highly competitive that I tend to run into these things, do you catch that with yourself? Yeah. Well, that's, I think that's kind of why it's hard to switch off at night, because with business, we, I mean, I want to say, we are the best box and fitness players in the world, but I really, I want that more than anything, you know, that's why I'm, from when I go to sleep at night or when I wake up in the morning, all I'm thinking about is business, I can't switch my mind off, because I'm just thinking about, oh, this is a good idea, we should do this, we should need to change this, which is, I'm sure some use of experience. Oh my God, we totally identify that. Right. And not for me is the hardest thing. Yeah. All the best athletes in the world and whatever their sport is, whether it's Kobe Bryant or Peyton Manning or whoever, they just have that competitiveness and they don't know how to shut it off, but it's, who can really kind of turn that and channel it to something else? No, absolutely. And then, and then to foresee those things, with that comes pitfalls and come challenges and drawbacks, like I said, greatest strength, greatest weakness, there's, it's also going to be some of the things that get you in trouble and so learning how to turn it on. Michael Jackson, not Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan and gambling or going out to golf or playing cards, whatever it is, he wants to win and he takes it personal if he doesn't win. Right. I find it extremely, before I had kids, it wasn't a problem. I could just work 24 hours a day and go crazy and just it didn't matter, right? Yeah. But then you get a family and it's like, okay, now I need to figure this out. Compartmentalize everything. Yeah, because, you love your children so much. Well, because you're affecting others now. Yeah. Selfishly, you could run your own life under the ground, it didn't matter, but now you can't do that. So I find it's now, it has to be something I plan, it's a skill I have to think about, whereas before I was just like, fuck it, just keep going till my body crashes. Right, yeah. And that's it. Like now, now you know you've got kids, it's even busier because if you're not working or being productive, you've got to be with them. That's why I'm anyway. And I think that's, because of the competitiveness, that's why drink and wine was helping us. I'm not recommending anyone who's listening to do that and drink and wine. But it was really helping us to switch off and go to the ease because like I said, I'm thinking about work all the time. But I've been on, I was the 23 when I was on the Olympic podium, 23 years old. So I was young and then, like I said, retired when I was 27. So the wine was helping us forget about all that and think about life and think about happiness and that sort of thing. But now I'm like, maybe one of you boys can give us advice. Like I'm now, I'm not drinking, I've been off to drink all year and how can I switch off? You know, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, this is going to sound hokey. Okay, this is going to sound hokey, but probably this last six months, the one of the most effective things that I found personally, and I think you guys, these two can probably attest to this as well was, believe it or not, meditation. I am not bullshitting, I swear to God. And I used to, I used to, I used to respect meditation. I'd respect people who did it. I'm very open-minded and I'd see people who do it and I'd hear people that I highly respected who would talk about it. You know, some of the business leaders and top athletes that say meditation was very impactful say, okay, well that person, I respect them. So I respect them. But I'd never understood it. Until I started doing it and it's one of those things that, like anything, I had tried meditating in the past and I, for some reason, I don't know why I thought this that I would do it the first time and come at it and be like, oh, it works great. First time I did it, I hated it. I couldn't sit there and my mom, I couldn't sit- It's not really hard to shut the noise off. No, I was like, this is, this is painful and I just wasted 30 minutes. Yeah. I'm going to go work. Fuck it. That's a waste of time. Yeah. But then I talked to, you know, I started dating someone who is really into meditation understands it and she told me, she said, look, she goes, just like any fucking skill, you got to get good at it before you really like it. She goes, you got to practice. You're not going to, you're going to do this for a month or two months or whatever and it's not, you're not going to like it until you start to really get good at it. So you got to practice it and so I said, okay, I'm going to give it some time. And now it makes a tremendous difference. The things I noticed with it are I find myself being more present when I'm with my children because I used to have a problem when I was with my kids where I'd be with them but it also be working. Yeah. Because in my mind I'm multitasking, you know. Right. But the reality is they're not getting the, they're not getting the full, they're not getting their dad, you know, 100%. And I'm not, and I'm also not getting the full thing as well. And I'd find myself at the end of a soccer game or whatever, you know, almost like, well, I didn't even think I saw half that game because while he was playing or while I'm on my phone and I'm trying to work and I'm trying to do different things. So I'm missing out on this time as well. What I found with meditation is that it made me more present in what I was doing at that moment. So if I decided to be with my kids, I was with my kids. The three is meditation. All of you. Yeah. So we, I'll tell you in different ways, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I can relate to that a lot. Yeah. Not being the present with your kids. Well, yes. I mean, that's typically, so back it up. I'll take, I'll give you one more a step even before the meditation that I think will happen. You, and you already touched on it, which is great. You said, what is the most, what's the most common thing, the hardest thing to teach boxers was the breathing part. Yeah. So that, believe it or not, that's the same thing with us. Like we, we're all like shallow breathers and we're all super focused on the future and what's going on and just becoming present. One of the, one of the best things you can do just to become present with right now is actually to concentrate on your breathing. It's a diaphragmatic. It's a diaphragmatic breathing. So like, like the seals do like a box breathing where you take these real deep breaths in for five seconds, you hold for five seconds, then you release for five seconds. And then you hold for five seconds. Yeah. And you do that for like four or five times and you'll be blown away. Like so, and I try and I, I catch myself at night. So this, and I'm sure you guys are similar where I'll be laying in bed and I'm thinking about tomorrow and I'm thinking about all this shit. If it might, I'm in my phone, I'm doing all this bullshit. I'm not being present. I'm not being present with right now and I'll stop all that and I'll just breathe. And that in itself, just totally just, allows me down, allows me to focus on what's going on right now in front of me, who's laying next to me in my bed, what's going on with kids in front of you, whatever it is. Where do you learn about that? We actually, we've been blessed with this show to, you know, once the show got really big, we got a lot of really great authors on here. So we just had Stephen Kotler, not too long ago, who's the author of Rise of Superman. And he dives into what they call, they call this the flow state. Or being in the zone. Yeah, being in the zone. And he talks, he gets into high level athletes and to extreme sports and how these athletes have this ability, which I'm sure you can relate to this, you know, when you've just maybe 30 seconds to a minute's gone by in boxing and you don't even remember what happened, you were just in the groove. Punches were flowing, you dodged everything, just that would be considered like this flow state. And you were, and what you really are is you were unbelievably hyper focused in the moment. Right. You're not, when you're, when that's happening to you, you're not thinking about the kids, you're not thinking about what you're gonna do afterwards. You were so hyper focused on that moment. And so when we are trying to become present, when you're trying to meditate, this is what you're trying to practice. You're truly trying to be, you're trying to practice this being in the moment. And the first step to that is really breathing. So, and that, and that was the advice I asked him right away. I said, well, you know, if you're somebody who's trying to learn to meditate, because, you know, take a guy like us and just say, go meditate, you go fucking insane, you know, put me in a dark room, because that's how I always envisioned it. I envisioned it. I have to dark room, candles. You're like, like, yeah, weird music in the background, hold my legs. I'm not into that shit. Yeah, like five minutes of that, I'm already thinking about what I'm not doing, right? Like this shit don't work, and I'm done with it. Well, the problem with that was, I wasn't really taking the first steps, which was to focus on breathing, just being present. And we just take something like breathing, we take for granted, and just practicing that. Man, my sleep at night is unreal. People don't realize that being present is so blissful. And if you don't, if you want to kind of understand what that means, like think about the times when you are present, like you're a boxer, right? Those times you were in the fight, or the times you were training, where you're just in that moment. It feels, it's like bliss. You know, I have a friend of mine who was explained to me why he likes to ride his motorcycle so much, because I was trying to talk him out of him. Like it's so dangerous, you shouldn't ride. And he says, yeah, it is very dangerous. That's why it's so enjoyable. He goes, because when I'm on the bike, I can't think about anything. There's no margin of error. I can't think about anything else and what I'm doing. And so it puts me in the moment. And I said, holy shit, no wonder you enjoy it's being present. And I noticed by being present more often, and this is going to sound again, it's going to sound hokey, it created more space in my brain to remember shit. I'm a very forgetful person. I'm very ADD, ADHD. It makes me really good at some things. It makes me really bad at other things. And what I noticed is when I take that time aside to be present, next thing you know, I'm just remembering shit. Like, oh yeah, I got that appointment over here. Oh yeah, I got to do this over here. I got to do it. And it's like it just created space. Which is mine. Right, what you were saying about skiing a couple years ago. But have you guys heard of the company Headspace? Do you know the app? Yeah, Headspace. So I went to an event a couple weeks ago with Maria Shriver and Andy Petticombe, I think is that? I don't know if you guys heard of him, but he's a guy you guys should try to get on here. I mean, he's very inspiring. He actually went and was a monk for like eight years or whatever. Wow. It was very inspiring. We've actually partnered with a company called Brain FM. They have an app that's out on iPhone and Droid now. And they have some of the leading researchers in neuroscience right now. And they have created this app for sleep, meditation, napping, focus. And we now have this science that that. They can play sounds and music that will put your brain in the same state as if you were. It's almost like cheating. It basically distracts you enough to like make you present. What's that called? It's called Brain FM. Most of it has changed my sleep. Like it's crazy. Like I now every night before I go to bed, especially on a day where my brain is on fire from work and I can't shut down because there's nights I don't need to use it when I'm when I'm calm, relaxed. I'm very present. But if it's a night where we pull the 12 hour day, I'm driving home talking to these guys more about work. I get I walk in the door. I'm talking to Katrina more about work. And then it's time for bed and I lay it down. Like you just don't shut off. Usually it's what we aren't doing. Yeah. So so the Brain FM really helps train. Now the ultimate goal is to intrinsically learn to do that. Right? That's like like the monks. Like they they have had the most the most unbelievable discipline to be able to create this intrinsically. And that's ultimately the goal. But for guys like us, I feel like these tools that we have now that sciences have brought forth for us, you know, are awesome because when I have a hard time, and for me, marijuana was how I did it. So that's you brought out wine. So instead of wine, I used to smoke. So I'm a huge, I'm a huge fan of marijuana. But then even then, I don't want to become dependent on a substance to get me into that state. Even though I'm a big fan of marijuana, does it mean that I want to become dependent on it to get me in that state? So then when I found Brain FM, I was like, wow, this has been. Did you notice you smoke less? Oh, way less. So that's how I do. And this is how years since I started meditating. Yeah, I you I try instead of always going like, Hey, I can't I can't relax or settle down. Instead of me going, hey, let me go roll a joint and smoke it. Now I go, you know, let me put my Brain FM for a little bit, read my read a book and get into it. And that helps me really settle way down. And it's made a huge difference on my sleep. I'm getting I've added something to my plate. And it doesn't feel that way. Like Sal said, it's almost like it creates space in my brain. And it's allowed me to be more present. You brought up skiing, right? Like I'm a snowboarder. Right. And I haven't ridden since my 20s. And I used to I used to be a season pass holder. I used to ride loved to ride. And I stopped because of the aches, the pains and just I didn't I wasn't the kid that I was in the parks and the tricks when I was younger. And I was just like, I've got to hang it up. I'm in my mid 30s now, whatever. Well, ever since I've been practicing this meditation, this focus, I've been doing a lot of mobility work. I've been riding the season again. And I haven't felt so fucking amazing. I mean, I feel so good right now at 35 years old, riding down a hill. Like I feel like I'm 20 years old again. And a lot of that too is the mental focus that I the training that I've been doing for learning to be present and focus, I can even see it translating in my in my right. You know, it's funny, you're so focused, you're both focused individuals. Once you realize that it actually improves productivity, then you're going to be hooked. Yeah, it'll be. So when you meditate and what do you do every morning or every when afternoon or what? Anytime. I don't necessarily schedule it, but you can. One thing is you can be present at any moment. So one way that I learned how to be present was when I was when I'm doing things that are mundane or things that I hate to do, like fold laundry or do the dishes, then I make myself very present. So, you know, we talk about, we just talked about breathing and really one of the one of the main reasons why breathing makes you present is because you're just focusing on what you're doing right now. There's obvious, there's, there's some physiological things that are happening with taking a full diaphragmatic breath and, you know, puts your body in a parasympathetic aesthetic state and all that stuff. But really a big part of it is just, I'm just focusing on what I'm doing right now so I can't think of anything else. So it makes me present. Well, you could do that all the time. So like if I'm washing dishes, I'm washing the dish and next thing you know, okay, I want to be present. I'm thinking of the water, the way it feels. I'm looking at the play. I'm really just being super in the moment with what's going on. I find that could be a form of meditation. The way I teach it to clients, because I definitely, I tend to, anyone who I've trained in the past are, I get these type A personalities. I tend to attract very similar like-minded people as myself. And the way I teach incorporating meditation, if you've never done it before, is simply by the breathing thing first is just, and to do it the next time you have that moment. The next time you have a moment where the wife gets on to you for not being present, or being so focused on work, that would be a great time to do it. Or when you're laying in bed. And they're good at letting you know that. Yeah, you're laying in bed. Is there anything like my wife? You can't sleep because you can't shut your brain down and you keep going back to your phone when you know you need to fucking sleep. That will be a good time. So I tell my clients that, listen, just pay attention the next time you have that moment. You'll remember now that we've talked about it, that you're so focused on everything else. Take a moment to breathe. And start with the breathing first. And then from there, you can start to get like, Sal's talking about super hyper focused on what's going on at that moment. Can also try mushrooms. That helps. Yeah, I like Kevin. These are all, don't you know what? Hey, can I tell you something right now? That is absolutely true. This is why people, A lot of studies on it, right? Yeah, the people that utilize psychedelic substances for these productive growth to dissolve ego and grow their consciousness or expand their consciousness, they would say, that's what's happening. It's like a different operating mechanism. It puts you in the present very, very effectively. And because you have to be, you have an altered state of consciousness, like if you're not, you have no choice but to be in the present when you... You have to experience it at that point. Yeah, so whenever I run off to Joshua Tree, now you know why. So what's in the future? What are you guys looking to do in the future? What does the next five, 10 years look like for Box and Burn? Well, for the near future, what we're doing now, we're putting our academy online. So people become certified with the CEUs, Nassam and the other ones online. It's going to be an online course. Oh, that's brilliant. We get asked often as well about why you're going to come to Melbourne. It's always Melbourne, come to Melbourne and do a certification course there or come here or there. And now we're going to do this online certification course so people can get certified all around the world. And we like we talked about earlier on about building the cert up so we can do different levels and different things on there. And then with the gyms, I'm hoping by the end of this year that we'll be looking for a third location in West Hollywood. That will be great. And then what we touched on on the last podcast was about helping our trainers that we've currently got and giving them a gym. So rather than franchising out to different people who don't know the method, like the back of the hand, our lead trainers, maybe them can have an open gym in Beverly Hills or the valley or wherever. We want to offer a career path for everybody that's really invested and dedicated themselves to our purpose and what we're doing at Box & Burn. So whether it's offering them management positions or regional positions when we have multiple gyms in different cities or own their own Box & Burn, I mean, that's a big goal of ours because we want to repay them for everything that they've given to us. That's fantastic. You guys have, I mean, I haven't been in your facility but we've looked it up, we've seen it, we've talked to you guys now for quite a bit before podcast and now on podcast, you guys have the right, in my opinion, my humble opinion, the right attitude, absolute right attitude and the right energy. Well, thank you. Appreciate that. Lots of integrity. So I mean, if I were a betting man, I would definitely bet on you guys. Yeah, man, it's been great having you guys down here and look forward to the future. I'm sure we're going to be in touch, man, after all this. Excellent. Yeah, really appreciate it. Hey, listen, if you like Mind Pump, leave us a five-star rating and review on iTunes. If we like your review and we pick it, you'll get a free Mind Pump t-shirt. Also, check us out on YouTube, Mind Pump TV. You can also find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Radio. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal. Adam's at Mind Pump, Adam. And Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. 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