 Ladies and gentlemen, our next speaker has also flown in especially to tell us the five secrets to growing influence in marketing. He's a marketing strategist, author and CEO of Top Rank Marketing, which is a digital marketing agency that provides strategic consulting and program implementation service for top B2B and B2C brands. He's also on the Forbes Top 20 CMO Influencers of 2017. Please welcome on stage Mr. Lee Auden, please. Come on, Dahlia. He's our guest. Come on. Hello. Good afternoon, sir. So excited to be here. I love you, sir. You know, if I don't do that, you know, they'll probably be sleeping. I love you. It's fantastic. And I do things my way, so. It's a great way. It keeps us all on our toes. I am really, really excited to be here. This is my very first time visiting the amazing country of India. And I'm really, really excited not only to be here, but to spend a couple of days off exploring a little bit. So first, let me start off by asking you a question. How many people here can keep a secret? Nobody's raising their hand. That's awesome. And this is not the deck that I gave you guys. Okay, great. No problem. There we go. What am I going to talk about? Who is this guy? What does he say that's actually going to help us? Well, maybe I'll convince you that I'm not so bad. I'm actually going to talk about the crisis in confidence when it comes to marketing. I'm going to talk a little bit about a journey that I've taken over the last couple of years that have really enabled me to use influence to achieve some things that there's no reason we should have been able to achieve as an agency. And also, of course, the secrets. So let's get to it. Trust in business has eroded. 81% of consumers trust friends and family more than advice that they get from businesses. 55% of consumers don't trust companies that they do business with as much as they used to. And 65% of individuals just don't trust advertising. And this is a problem. So you've got to wonder, well, who do consumers trust? Not marketing. In fact, they trust your barista, the person who makes your coffee more than they trust marketing. And it's interesting to see there's just a couple of spots above car salesmen and politician, which I don't know about here, but I know in the US these are the most least trusted individuals in the business world. So it's kind of crazy. This manifests a couple of different ways. One of the ways in which this distrust in marketing shows up is in the lifespan of a CMO. CMOs have half the tenure of CEOs, which is crazy considering the job they have to do. And this creates a bit of a volatile environment for marketers. And there's research that shows why 73% of CEOs say that marketers lack business credibility and the ability to generate sufficient growth. That's harsh. 80% of CEOs don't trust marketers at all, but 91% of them do trust CIOs and CFOs. This is a bit of a volatile environment in which we've got to succeed at growing revenue for business. Now, on top of that, media platforms have some credibility issues. You've got fake news, inappropriate content, and all kinds of situations where contextual advertisers are showing up against information that you really don't want to be associated with. And it's hard to say whether adding humans back to the algorithm or adding humans to the algorithm will actually work. I mean, that's what Facebook is doing. Google's been doing this for a long time, but it's very tough to scale. Can you imagine? Every ad has to be reviewed by a human being. And then there's this whole fake news. Shut the fake up. I love that. I think we need to say that to someone in the United States. Yes. But that's a problem. And then there's data, right? And how data is being used. Look at the Cambridge Analytica situation and what Facebook has been doing. They've been making roads to create more trust, but the fact that we don't always know how much data is being collected and what's being used for is a cause for concern for many consumers. Now it's not like marketers have been, you know, I don't know, immune to bad behavior. Marketers have been putting out information that is misleading or a little bit edgy or whatever causing distrust. The channels have been victimized by opportunists. And I don't know if you've gotten the Nigerian Prince emails, but there's a new one coming out from Warren Buffett who needs to get a million and a half out of a bank if you would just send him $500,000 or $5,000. That kind of spam makes people not trust the channel or medium of email. And then there's companies trying to get edgy. Kendall Jenner and Pepsi could solve the racial divide in the United States all in one commercial. Maybe not. Maybe not. And then this, I thought this was hilarious, but not really hilarious. Burger King ran an ad encouraging women to get pregnant by World Cup soccer players, giving them burgers as an incentive. What? Somebody approve this ad and probably create some distrust of the brand a little bit. And then we have things like GDPR and EU, right? Where there are both some challenges. I mean, complying with GDPR, especially for some organizations, that's a big digital transformation project. It also creates some opportunities for transparency and disclosure around what's actually being done with the data and giving people control. Now, what should customers do? What customers are asking brands and social media platforms to do? 71% want us as brands, if you work for a brand, to safeguard their personal data. 70% want us to help curb the spread of fake news. 68% want us to shield them from offensive content. These are things people want. And one of the things that consumers are doing to shield themselves from these things is to start to opt out, right? They're disengaging. And they're becoming or trying to become more anonymous. But obviously there's a cost to that, right? And lack of personalization. They want their cake and they want to eat it. They want to have their cake and eat it too, as the expression goes. So what can marketers do to regain trust and credibility and influence and authority in this sort of volatile environment that we all operate under? I decided to reach out to some friends and influencers. Most of them are CMOs at different companies and ask them because they are on the front line of solving these problems every day. The first person I talked to was Rishi Dhabi, the CMO of Dunham Bradstreet. And he's like, look folks, you know, so many people approach marketing technically as a thing that just gets executed. When in reality, marketing's view of the world is probably one of the most powerful to inform the kinds of decisions that will ultimately grow a business and have an impact on strategy and the bottom line. And I happen to agree with him. I also talked to Avinash Kaushik from Google, who's a super enthusiastic individual if you've ever had a chance to see him speak. Very, very smart guy. And he took a very similar view in that we've got to take a step back and look at the big picture. Stop solving for what he calls local maxima, like the KPIs that everyone gets all amped up about, fans, friends, followers, views, impressions, likes, clicks and that sort of thing. Rather, focus on what he calls the global maxima, like customer happiness and impact to the business. Literally everything you do should line up with those sorts of metrics. And in that way, we can increase our credibility upward and to the right. I also talked to Margaret Magnarelli from monster.com and she answered the question a little more from an internal perspective, meaning that there's obviously a lot of credibility issues inside companies, as I was just showing examples of. And she's talking about it's important to have alignment because obviously if you have alignment inside your company, you're going to get better results because people contribute more effectively but you also get more budget. On top of that though, you've got to celebrate the wins. You've got to market your marketing or as I like to say, publicize your publicity, share the good news, connect the stakeholders, involve them. And if you can provide ultimately value for people, they're going to trust you. So you've got to do that inside companies. I also talked to Chandar from Group of Software, who's a pastimo of Marquetto, which is where I met him, and he brings data to the table. There is no better time than now and there's better resource than now than cold hardline data. So whether you're qualifying success with hard data by showcasing sourced and influenced revenue or you're creating incentive programs that actually contribute to revenue versus just the marketing KPIs that are internal, we're going to see a much more credible relationship with the C-suite in our organization. Yeah, now you know what's coming. My embarrassing photo. And I also talked to Jeannie Mullen, who is the global CMO of Mercer. And she has her own acronym, AIR, Authentic Inspirational Realistic Marketing. And she takes this global, as I suppose she should, view of things. She's saying, you know, look, if you have this authenticity, this inspirational realistic approach to marketing, it's relevant for how you communicate with people externally and do your marketing. It's relevant how you communicate internally with your stakeholders. And it's applicable both to B2B and B2C. I think that has a lot of merit. I think it's very meaningful what she has to say. So now I'm going to share a little bit about my story. I had, obviously, in 2001, I had a marketing credibility problem because no one knew who we were. We just started a brand new business. And I don't know how many people here own your own business, how many people work for a small, medium, or large enterprise organization. But the things I'm going to share with you here are equally relevant. Not only did I have a marketing credibility problem, but I had a weight problem, and I had a beard problem. I had a beard, which is a problem, a big, big issue. So quickly I grew a beard, and it took me a while to lose the weight. I decided to fix this problem of credibility and anonymity by building authority, credibility, and influence using content. And that really is the takeaway here. Content is a king and kingdom when it comes to building the authority that you need to stand out amongst the competition, but also to create meaningful experiences, the wonderful storytelling experiences like Nudra was sharing. So my journey as an individual, I own an agency, and so when I speak, I speak with the voice of my agency, we're the same thing, basically. My dark years were in 87 in 2002, where I was just really sinking into digital marketing, experimenting, getting good at craft. And then I started a blog to start sharing best practices in 2003, and I was a horrible writer, but despite that, the passion and the kind of information I was sharing attracted a company called McKesson. You may not have heard of them, but they're a Fortune 5 company, and they're still our client. A $195 billion company. I started speaking a couple years later, horrible public speaker. Maybe you think the same till today, I don't know. But the passion is what really wins people over. And I started speaking a little bit, and that led to me being more involved in the social web, attracting hundreds of thousands of followers and community across LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook and so forth. And I was offered to do a book by Wiley called Optimize, which you can easily find by searching Google for the word Optimize, still five years later. And then I moved into being more of a collaborator. I was contributing to industry publications, writing on column for CMO.com, that sort of thing. And these last couple of years have been spending a lot more time mentoring, helping other people become influential. And the amazing thing is that what I learned about that is that, and I'll talk about this more in a second, but you may think by working with people that are influential, it'll help you become influential too. That's true. But what I've found is that when you then pass along that power, when you pass along that ability to shine a light on people that are coming up in the industry, that makes you even more influential and inspires an incredible amount of loyalty and that is absolutely priceless in this age of information overload. So now, as a sort of being treated like an influencer by lots of different companies, I get engaged. You know, I was invited to go to the Economist in New York and actually educate them on digital marketing topics. Same thing at Forbes headquarters. I get invited to conferences by IBM, by SAP, by Oracle, lots of other B2B technology companies as an influencer and I get to make an incredible set of connections and I learn a lot from those things. Now, this kind of exposure leads to free PR. I don't engage a PR firm, but I'm getting cited. Every week, I'm doing two or three interviews, right? And that inspires people to put me on lists like on the Forbes, they publish this list of people who influence CMOs and that's part of the reason why I might have been invited to come here. And that kind of exposure is amazing because it does create lots of opportunities. Over 200 speaking events in 17 different countries, which now this is where the ROI is starting to come into play. This has given me access to an incredible mastermind network of marketers literally all over the world. Some of the smartest people I have ever met, we stay connected, we share ideas and this is something everybody can do. And that credibility, that authority, that influence has allowed me to attract an amazing portfolio of clients and also a first-class team to work with me. We're just a small agency at 30-some people and we're fighting way above our way class in terms of the impact and the kinds of brands that we're working with. Again, why? Because people that are so talented and interested, they're coming to us. We don't use recruiters. They're coming to us and wanting to work with their agency because they've heard about our reputation. I think these are lessons everyone here can take advantage of, whether you are the CEO of a large enterprise, you're a senior executive, you're a marketer at a mid-sized company or you're a small business owner. Now, a couple of lessons I learned out of this personal journey are, one, I found it incredibly impactful, this idea of specificity. Stand for something and stand for something specific because that's what will help you rise to the top in a sea of noise, right? And create signals of credibility for that specific thing in all the places where your customers may spend their time, right? Your unique selling proposition and that thing that you stand for need to align. This is an incredible way of achieving authority and credibility. Another lesson I learned in this journey is that everyone is influential. Everyone in here that has talked to somebody that has given a recommendation, and that person changed what they were going to do because of the recommendation, you just influenced them. You're doing this every single day. A holistic view of what and who is influential opened many, many, many doors to effectiveness instead of chasing the crack of the brand individual, the famous person with millions of followers and is next to zero engagement. Another very, very important lesson that coincides with that is I realized that I've got to spend a lot less time thinking about the me, right? It's not about me. It's not about what I want. It's about the we. It's about the collective wisdom. It is about crowdsourcing. It is about democratizing the marketing function because when you can involve the very people that you're marketing to and the creation of your marketing content, that opens incredible doors for inspiration. That inspires them to help you make that marketing successful and that blends into how well you're seen as an authority and credible. So do a lot of work with industry influencers, mostly on the B2B side, not so much on the B2C. One thing I've noticed is that when we're working with influencers this drives value across the entire customer lifecycle. If you're a marketing department and you're expected to do more and you don't have a lot more resources, developing a community of collaborators is an incredible way to scale quality content. You can attract people who have audiences that you're having a hard time reaching because those audiences are using ad blocking. They don't trust ads and yet people do trust peers, friends and experts. You could engage people that have interesting or unique content creation skills that don't exist in your marketing department. So you can create more engaging content. You can work with influencers who are trusted so you can increase your conversion rates. You can work with, you can highlight your employees, right? To increase retention rates. You can highlight the most influential customers in your case studies and examples so you can inspire more advocacy. It works across the entire spectrum. So I'm gonna share a couple of examples of companies and again most of my examples are B2B and how they're taking these principles and putting them into action. So obviously you've got to understand your customer and not just who influences them but what influences them. We're working with an IT service management company called Sherwell Software that wanted to pilot this idea of co-creation of content to increase their own credibility and marketing effectiveness. So we did, we did that exactly for this particular customer segment, the CTO. And we used those insights about not only who influenced that customer but what, what channels, what types of content, what types of media, what publications and so forth and created content experiences that were engaging and relevant to that very specific customer segment. As a result, you know, yeah, I got a lot of shares and so forth but the cool thing was that one pilot campaign drove 22% of all pipeline revenue for the entire year of 2017. With that pilot data, which is what we often do we're now able to inform year-long campaigns going forward. Another example I'll share with you is SAP. SAP is launching a Leonardo platform and you know, one of the triggers or key messages of this platform was the idea of digital transformation and there were subtopics, everything from machine learning, artificial intelligence, blockchain, web analytics and so forth. So what we did is in order to create instant credibility for SAP around these topics and granted, they're one of the largest companies in the world they already have a lot of credibility but not for this specific group. We invited industry influencers, people who had domain expertise specific to these subtopics and we invited them to contribute short form tips and we put this together as an interactive microsite. There's 100% share and promotion rate by the influencers because it was a kind of a cool thing not so common in B2B to have something interesting to be a part of but it created over 21 million impressions with no ad spend. That solved the problem of creating affinity and exposure to SAP and Leonardo in a place where no one had heard of that brand before. Another example I want to share with you is something we didn't work on but I love this example. There's a company in the US actually in Minneapolis called Deluxe and they are a 100 year old check printing company and I don't know if people still use checks here you know little paper prompts to pay but you know world of e-commerce or digital commerce and credit cards and debit cards it's kind of an antiquated way to do things they decided they wanted to shift their business model and start providing digital marketing services to small businesses that's not check printing so how do they create awareness and credibility and authority around that they decided to create a movement and to create a contest and they partnered with a celebrity Robert Herjavec from Shark Tank who was an advocate for them and they were able to get some earned media nationally because of that but the coolest thing was they were able to create this contest that would award small towns with $500,000 of digital marketing services to the small businesses in those small towns and Deluxe sent camera crews to document the whole thing and they ended up creating a web TV series and they achieved a ridiculous amount of earned media coverage from the towns that were competing against each other and the social media exposure from all the individuals who were incentivized to promote their favorite businesses and here's a little bit about that program we're the driver of the United States with the small business revolution we really created a movement and this year we wanted to do something even bigger we're taking the small business revolution to a community that really needs a mainstream revival we all know of a great little town Frequent or just makes us smile or makes us happy Deluxe and I are trying to help that community and make it even better we're asking people to nominate their favorite small town half a million dollars into the winning community and Robert and Deluxe are going to be working directly with entrepreneurs within the town helping them really get their business in great shape so this is a program that has been running three years in a row and let's see here two billion earned media impressions over a million video views over a million visits to smallbusinessrevolution.org now it's known in the markets that they're trying to reach that Deluxe is a provider of small business digital marketing services and it's basically I don't know if Save Their Business is the right expression but check printing and financial services creating a movement that people are inspired by and talking about it's had a huge impact for them so the impact of course is manifest as something that's credible credibility I try to make up words sometimes so now about the secrets some secrets are hidden in plain sight some secrets are stuffed away in a corner dark corner never to be revealed I think these are things that a lot of people might know about intellectually but they're not acting on them and I hope to inspire you to do so so the first secret is accelerate your internal and external credibility so there's a couple of ways to do that internally it makes sense not for you just as a marketer to okay let's execute the strategy and campaign that I got approved so I earn more budget next quarter and do that over and over and over again rather or on top of that find out what some of the key business problems that your senior executives are challenged to solve and see if there's any way that your marketing activities can help them solve those business problems trust me if they have product innovation or finding new channel partners or that sort of thing as a goal and you're able through marketing activities to help them solve those problems all of a sudden now you're friends and you're going to have some credibility within the organization also as Margaret said promote your wins connect with stakeholders internally and collaborate with them and also make sure that you give them recognition for their part in collaborating with you and externally create the kind of content that makes your brand the best answer wherever customers are looking and don't just think about informing them but think about how you can create content experiences it's not enough to inform people you've got to make them feel something and that way you'll get credibility with your customers double down on customer engagement so this means a lot of people spend so much of their time engaging with prospective customers as soon as they become a customer it's only customer service that is the interaction touch point and this is a huge lost opportunity this can manifest in a lot of different ways like online reviews so 78% of people find online reviews useful and it's even more than that because more and more people are going to online reviews and they're looking for firsthand experiences and evidence of credibility through things like reviews whether it's B2B or B2C so engage with your customers implement programs incentivize or encourage some sort of third party encourages reviews and also engaging with customers after the fact not just waiting for them to have a problem to interact will retain those customers just a 5% increase in retention can increase profitability by 25 to 95% right that shouldn't be a secret work with influencers to become influential now again this is an area where we spend a lot of time and there's sort of a three step dynamic that makes this work first step is to identify qualified influencers find influencers who not only have topical or main expertise but they have an active network that's paying attention to what they say it's not enough that they're just experts they need to have a network to distribute that content too and find ways in which you can share values and share goals and make something together make something together for the greater good for the benefit of your customers and then you've got to qualify those influencers and you've got to qualify their audience we're in the world of fake influencers purchased influencers bots and all that sort of stuff Unilever just made a very big announcement they're dropping all influencers with any evidence of having purchased audience or people in their network and this is important so you've got to validate not just when you find the right influencer and you encourage them to be part of a program you've got to do this on a periodic basis at least once a quarter because they may decide all of a sudden where previously they didn't want to buy followers now they want to make a lot more money so all of a sudden now they're part of your program they want to start buying a lot more followers you've got to account for that and then engage employ always on social listening and engagement initiatives you can use software to do this but you've got to keep the love alive right and if you're working with influencers organically meaning that's most of what we do we only pay influencers maybe 10 or 15% of the time we find things they care about we find things the brand cares about that intersect and we work together and everybody wins but the only thing that keeps those influencers from leaving is the relationship so it's important especially when you're working with organic influencers to maintain a connection and to engage with them a four secret is to create content collaboration ecosystem there's only so much you can do there's only so much your marketing department can do or your company can do but imagine if you're able to create a VIP community of collaborators influencers who could be employees they could be customers they could be industry experts they could be prospective customers that's my favorite right making content for the very people you're trying to market to if you create an ecosystem of people with domain expertise and with channels of distribution now all of a sudden you can create scale content at scale and the kind of content again that contributes to objectives we have across the entire customer journey and the fifth secret I'll share with you is about optimization on measurement right and we use I like to you to keep content and marketing accountable we like to use an attract engage convert model so the specific metrics depend on how you're approaching this but you gotta answer these questions and identify the metrics that align whether you're successful or not in each of these areas so is your marketing reaching the right audience and in the channels that they're influenced by right are you engaging with customers with content and media are you creating great experiences are you creating raving fans or not and is your content marketing or is your marketing inspiring them to make decisions to move them through that journey right are you inspiring them to take action or not and ultimately does that marketing activity whether it's branding or whether it's end of funnel targeting does it actually contribute to revenue or not so I'm not talking about I'm talking about content I'm talking about influence but I'm talking or hopefully hopefully inspiring you to sort of adopt this idea of creating a community of participation right democratize marketing again if you want to be credible if you want to have authority invite people to collaborate invite influencers to collaborate invite people who have a stake in the success of what you're working on together to collaborate to create content that is more meaningful that is more valuable than the stuff that you could make all by yourself so I'm going to leave you with a couple of sort of takeaways things that are represent some of the DNA of success for the many brands that we work with on these content marketing programs where they do realize the benefits of increased credibility authority and influence the first and I think this is something that you probably heard a lot about lately is purpose I think it's Simon Sinek that said it's not people don't buy from you because of what you do they buy from you because of why you do it and if the world was different as a result of your company being in it what is that difference what is your purpose how are you changing the world define that and start to include that in your messaging I recently did a presentation with one of our clients LinkedIn and the gala I was presenting with is sort of a millennial marketing expert she tapped LinkedIn's research and data to do some to find some insights around how millennials perceive content and one of the interesting findings was is when a millennial aged a buyer especially in B2B goes to a company website the very first thing they look for is the corporate social responsibility or cause type initiatives that brand is involved with you know I thought about that is like you know how many B2B brands that are basically hiding that stuff under PR news about us somewhere and so it's a real opportunity purpose define it use it communicate it and make it a part of your business relevance now this me centric ego centric view a lot of brands take and decide okay we've got to boost sales so we're going to push this information about these products and services so we can make our quarter goals and you know obviously that conflicts with sometimes the relevance of the information like how do you know customers actually care about what it is that you're promoting so use data and to create compelling content experiences in context in the context of what will be relevant to them to create value for them reach again the best answer be the best answer right that singular expression represents an entire strategy that we implement when it comes to content for companies that we do business with being the best answer is about that topic specificity is about how you create more value and with more depth than any other resource out there and this is recognized not only by humans but by people on social networks and the social networks themselves in terms of ranking of content it's recognized by Google and any search engine that's going to rank and position content and resonance again truly understand what it is that your customers care about so that when they do interact with your content that you create a moment of clarity a moment of truth if you will or they trigger to take that next step and they are inspired to take the action that you want them to take these can sound very obvious unfortunately or I guess they sound like common sense but unfortunately a lot of companies simply don't have them baked in to the strategy and processes and especially when you're focusing on short revenue goals as opposed to growing market share so with that we have a few minutes for some questions all right ladies and gentlemen you just need to lift your hand up and you can ask Lee your questions my lovely hostess who's walking the ramp backstage what I understand is you use more of organic search organic content etc and when right now you are engaged with brands and but at the same moment like you're using paid media as well as organic media so any like a ratio or how much you spent on organ I mean on paid media how much basically sure so how much I mean I mean percentage any information about the split between organic media and paid media in our case it's probably 60 percent 70 percent organic and we use organic and a lot of pilots I mean actually we use paid and organic similarly when we have a situation where a client has a substantial publishing entity and they have a substantial amount of traffic we'll do an organic pilot to inform paid media spent when they do not we'll do paid pilots to inform a longer term organic effort so really it really depends on what we have to work with what the split is between organic and paid but overall it's 60 70 percent organic for us and with the 30 40 percent being paid cool all right want now we've got time for one more question anybody else you don't need to feel shy or there you go I know here's a question how did I lose what is it 60 pounds it is but no sorry hello Mr. Audin welcome to India sorry go ahead yeah okay you had some really good insights about consumer trust shifting I was wondering if we could see those two slides again about the consumer trust shifting that was really insightful I don't think I have control I can make that sound okay and so when you are filtering the influences so what advice do you have for somebody who is trying to create influence on digital platforms regarding this organic and bought following and stuff what are the advices you have absolutely so what are the best tips I can give you around growing an influencer program and deciding what the mix of paid organic you are able to find influencers who are actively representing themselves and their interests out of the marketplace they are publishing content they are speaking events they are publishing books clearly they are playing the game so they have a vested interest in getting more exposure if you can come to them and give them something that they are not getting like exposure in a very specific way or on topics that they really care about technically i.e. for free to participate in your program because they are getting something out of it so a lot of organic programs that we implement the influencers come back to us and say not only do they have a great experience but they are getting offers of paid speaking gigs they are getting consulting gigs they are getting book deals and so on and so forth as a result of their exposure from the program we invited them to be a part of there are certain roles responsibilities that deserve to be paid for so for example emceeing an event that is certainly worth being paid for I am not getting paid much though you need a raise with a voice like that you need a raise if it is a long form content or if it is something that is substantial when the craft of creation is involved usually there is compensation involved for the thing like that and so it really depends on what your needs are when identifying influencers you will be able to surface those opportunities organic or paid according to what you find in many cases this starts with a specific topic that you want to be influential about and you can go to an influencer discovery engine like tracker or on the low end basumo which focuses mostly on blogs and twitter and you can pop in keywords it will spit back in search results a list of people and then you can start to look at what it is that they are doing how are they behaving and you can scope with experience in the field you can scope who will work purely for exposure who you are going to have to hire so Gary Vinerchuk I am going to have to pay him but Michael Brenner if it is substantially from things in the marketing world I am probably not going to have to pay him but I have paid Mike for very specific things that is a really long answer wasn't it last question here you go Hi I just wanted to ask you considering the whole session here was about how to be an influencer I mean in life when you start off being an influencer it's not always very hunky dory you start off at a very strong point and then the people around you probably can't see you proceed and then the spare the crab mentality comes in and then you pull down so how do you resurrect yourself from a place of being at the rock bottom because that's when you need to bounce up sure so as far as becoming an influencer it's got to be aligned with interests that you've already demonstrated I do see people they tend to be a lot younger than me that go on the web and they see these famous people and they decide I can act like that if I act like that I'm going to get all kinds of sponsorship money from major brands no so you don't automatically become an influencer so when someone does abruptly change their behaviors they start behaving in that way they're going to get some negative feedback probably from the people that are closest to them if they're not genuine or authentic in the kinds of information they're publishing or promoting they're probably going to get some negative feedback so the thing you have to find is your own personal purpose what is it that you truly care about how are you trying to change the world how are you trying to change your own world and the people around you in a positive way if you can really define what that is what you can advance the good news about the things you care about about products about services whatever it is that you're interested in if you can do that by being genuine that's something that you'll find will lift you up it's something that will make you more accepted by the people who actually give you influence alright we've got the bell also ringing right now so thanks so much Lee I'm going to be very genuine and say I love what you spoke on stage and you can probably kick me out of the MC business because you're such a good orator so there you go but you know what I've got something to say thank you too senior manager senior manager senior manager senior manager senior manager senior manager senior manager senior manager scene alright thanks so much pleasure