 I'm basically scared to welcome you to what I'm going to be doing in this conversation. I want, I'm very, very sad about this agreement in this conversation. And the thought that's been in my head all day is, and I say, do you want to change the conversation? You have to change who that is. And I'm very honored that people are around this table. And I feel they probably didn't have to put a lot of tables. So I feel like we've had a table and then sit around. And now you're sitting on the table with us. And I thank you very much for joining us. OK, we're also moving the microphone closer. So first of all, I'm sitting at a table with four very early artists and second artists back here. So I'm basically going to get out and maybe ask them a few questions to get to the bottom of the table. I think you're going to be a lot of chance for you all to ask questions as well. So first of all, I could just have an honor to introduce a connoisseur who has accomplished an award-winning film, TV, theater, actor, radio broadcast, and community playwright and director. In fact, I'd like to let the people in this room have seen the action. We've worked out many pages with social urchins, particularly the violence-expecting youth at his Love Life Foundation, which is an annual free impact. And we will be hearing about that, I'm sure. And then we have Eric Edward Temple, who is on board of our powerful multi-daughter team. They are surrogate daughters of me, too. And in 2009, they started the meet-and-lead and the foundation, which is a very important foundation, to work on issues of civil rights and to keep the legacy a little bit until the end of the first life. And of course, it was also a form of the meet-and-lead to start it. Yes. I just think it's very important to have issues that are mixed in, just to make sure that it's going to the right side, but not on the right side. I think now we can advocate for a lot of violence like myself, who are going through violence. Just a really quick comment before we move on to some questions. Performance has always been an important part of social movement activism, just since there's been access to performance in our part of that. And it serves a purpose, it raises awareness, to people who don't know about what's going on. So they can also be directed at people who are already in the mood to encourage them. Some people refer to that as reaching to the choir. And maybe they say that's a bad thing. But actually, the choir did some love, too. It was very bad work. It was directed at people who were already in the mood to do social justice and should do this. You need to have a community, you need to have art, you need to have the community activists as well. There's something you need that the arts can offer in social justice community. Sometimes it's just going to be to call attention to oppression or injustice that has become naturalized. In other words, people just think it's immoral that things aren't this way. And I'm sure because there are a lot of examples of that where people say, oh yeah, that's too bad, but that's just how things are. And we've had a lot of artists who have come up and kind of been chacked in this, who use dramatic techniques or artistic techniques to call attention to that issue. They say, actually this is not normal, it's not natural, it's not okay, and in fact, we can change it. It's not something like the weather where you just have to accept it, be this racist and sexist and so on. In the civil rights movement, there was a great deal of, the people had a lot of strategy in this plan and they thought in terms of dramatizing issues. They talked in terms of creative suffering. And in fact, when Dr. Taylor was asked underneath the press once, he said, why is your movement causing so much trouble with these sit-ins and these actions like this that result in violent responses? Why don't you just do things that are more calm? And Dr. King said, well, you know, I understand that, but there's a lot of people who don't understand how bad things are. And they haven't given enough thought yet. And we are, sometimes you need to dramatize the issue and you actually use the term dramatize. And he was thinking in terms of social drama tonight. And so a lot of the actions like the sit-ins were devised to put the oppressive racist power structure on its back foot and off balance with the surprising intervention that was devised by the group that had less power. And these were successful actions. So this awareness of the idea of let's be creative with our suffering, let's dramatize the issue. This term creative suffering was essentially, we're suffering anyway, let's get creative so we can win real victories with our suffering. Humor is not always appropriate for every social justice campaign. But of course, as Mr. Lazy has shown, it can be very effective, right? I was empowered during the revolution during some artistic activism there. You had an old man in Tartary Square holding up a sign saying, Mubarak, resign already. My arms are getting tired, you know? So that kind of, even in the dangerous context that I've seen around the world, where people find ways to use humor in their activism, both for their own uplift and to surprise the satirized people, that's right. So having said that, I'm gonna just move on to our speakers here. And I thought I would just start with a question just to get some of the conversation going. And by the way, Donald Lazy needs to leave at seven to go to a show that he is in. He has kind of managed to do this on an evening where he's actually performing for a very, very long. I just wanted everyone maybe to just kind of go down the line. And if you could just answer in a few minutes, what was, can you name a major event that influenced you in the work that you do? And maybe talk about who your influences are. Could be an event that happened or an artistic thing, artistic influences as well. All we're doing. I actually, we are cousins to Emmedale. Cousins? Yes, we're cousins, but we're also serving daughters, granddaughters, to Emmedale's mother. And I say that because what influenced me in life was Emmedale's mother, his grandmother. She called me the great child she never had. Six months old, I grew up in the house with them. My mother was in college. To help my mother finish school, I stayed with Emmedale's mother. Growing up, I would sleep in the bed with Emmedale's grandmother. She would tell me stories. I would make little stories, turn her stories. You know, as a child. And it wasn't until I became older that I realized the story she shared with me were stories that, you know, there were true stories of her, fine memories of her, Emmedale. I traveled with Mamie very often in my lifetime. And I would hear her share the story of Emmedale. I would witness people see her and recognize her as I take her, as I got older and I would drive and I would drive her to a grocery store. Someone would recognize her, fall to their knees in the aisle of the store and lay their hand in her lap and cry. And I would get upset because at that time, you know, she was just maiming to me that I had something to do. I probably had a date or something. And I'm like, oh my God, really? Can we hurry this up? And this lady's bawling and just like, oh, you know, and hugging her and embracing her. And to me, not really understanding the moment that was happening in front of me until later. But I was also an Emmedale player, which was a touring troupe. She trained children after Emmedale. She trained them at Martin Luther King's Excerpts of the Speeches. And we learned those, not just learning how to recite a speech. We really learned what the speeches meant and how to recite them. And we traveled across the country reciting those speeches. And she trained hundreds. And today, we are lawyers, we are attorneys. All of us are professionals in all walks of life. I'd say 90% of the young men are clergymen. She influenced so many children. She influenced myself. So the work that I do, I was speech therapist by trade. But things changed in life. I've had two kidney transplants. Mandy was on dialysis. Well, she went on dialysis, I was, because I knew that she was about to embark. You know, fine. We've had so many similarities in our lives. But what really impacted me was maybe traveling and seeing her and not understanding that from six months of age, I was being trained to continue to work because she didn't have any more children. I was the one that God had ordained to continue with the work she had started because there was no one else to do it. And so that's why today, I have the Manny Timokin Foundation, which I've dedicated myself to 100%. And I'm blessed to be in a position to do that. What my mother's held and my husband's held. So, you know, when you ask what influenced me, that influences me. And what drives me is what she has stated. A lot of people didn't understand how bad things are. These are bad today. When you have the children that are being gunned down, especially in Chicago, when they're calling it Chirac now, things are very bad. So we have to be dramatic in what we do. Dramatize everything, whether it's humor, whether it's dramatic, you know, whatever you wanna do, we gotta get down to it because we're losing our children, especially where I'm from. So, you know, that motivates me and what influences me is my legacy of my family. Thank you. Well, I would say that Emmett's mother was my greatest influence. My family, I guess at about age three, I remember meeting her. My family migrated from the state of Mississippi to the Chicago area. And Emmett's grandmother was a person that afforded other family members, the financial abilities to come from the South into Chicago. And as we migrated from Mississippi to Chicago, of course, we stayed in the house with Emmett and his mother. And it was a family building. Emmett and his mother lived on the second floor that we had. Emmett's great-uncle, his mother's uncle, lived on the first floor and eventually they modeled the basement and my family lived in the basement area. So, my memories go all the way back until age three. Up in, I think that I was about seven and a half, almost eight, when Emmett was killed. So, I do remember Emmett. I remember attending the same grade school, McCotch School as he did. I can remember him being a fun lover of Joseph. He loved to make people laugh. He loved to entertain people. And I would probably have him live if he wasn't been a comedian of some kind. I think that he would have done very well in that field. So, this is what I remember of him. I remember that he was my protector. And I could get into some given trouble all the time. He was like that big brother that couldn't even do whatever else and nobody was a better father. So, I knew Emmett. And knowing him and having that bond and then going up in the house with his mother, I also became, she was a teacher. And I became a teacher. And as life went on and she began to age, she used to tell me, Ali, someone needs to carry on my work. And I would never commit to it because it just seemed like it was so tiring and never ending. But I said, I can't do that. But, you know, I am. And so, I think that I know I'm motivated because her voice and her wishes were echoed through my voice and through my behavior. As I continued to carry her work on, I went into special needs, socially adjusted students and behavior disorder, where I found my niche. I did teach what Chicago College of Schools for 34 years, which I did 17 years inside Cook County jail. How I ended up in the jail, God only knows. But it was a mission, I always call it missionary work because as I taught these young men in women 17 and 21, I found very quickly that I had to address a total person, not just from an educational standpoint. And it was so rewarding to see these young men and young ladies start to really gravitate toward me for what I have to offer. And I started to see change. And then as Erica said, she did the oral part. I started to work with them, like giving her emotions and giving her feelings from paper. And I was amazed at what I got from that. And I was also amazed at how these students started to turn around. And I said, okay, this is my name. This is what's coming out. And I'm working with this population of young men that she so dearly cared about because many of them found themselves in situations that if their environment had been different and their home structures had been different, they would not have been in that situation at the first place. So my thing was to show them a different way of life and motivate them to want to go out and achieve and do that. And I would say my greatest reward was my first class. I had 17 young men in that, my close to hearing. And I love 17 young men. 16 of them passed a few tests. And they, these were still there. I was like, everybody was like, wow, well, I told you. One, only one did not take the test because it was released from jail and then before the test. And so that didn't really got inside of me. And I said, well, okay, if I can do this without, that's what I don't know, people can't tell me how it's working. My class was called the GV room. And I didn't know that there was an officer at the door for the new young men, when the new people would come in and they would say, the only thing going on in here is to rent. And if you're not looking to pay the rent, do the work and get it. This is not flat tuition because you won't last an year. I'm motivated that young man to even be the gatekeeper as I call it, I don't know. But I go back to Mrs. Mulvaney all the time because she was my experience, she was my motivator. She was the first professional person that I had been around. And she would always mold me and instill me and tell me what I needed to do and guide me. But as my daughter said, it was only when she died and I had the awesome task of doing her funeral that I really realized, oh, she used to always say, Ali, I wish you could see me through the eyes of other people because I couldn't. She was just me. But then when the president started calling President Carr, wait a minute, maybe she just wasn't ready. Right now. And so here I am today, continuing her battle against injustices and trying to mold young people to not just be ordinary but go to the extraordinary and continue to try and bring change in our society. And that's all that puts me to the point. Question? Just what was it I think, the question is through, what is the event that has moved and maybe you were influenced by it? It's my son, and you don't mind if I stand. My son, are we? We're half of it. This is just a bigger picture of him that I care around with me. I've been, oh, sorry. I've been, my son was murdered August 14th, 2006. And it's been seven years already. And I've been fighting this battle for that long and not just for my son but for other young men and women out there also. My son was murdered in front of my house to a semi-automatic gun, 30 rounds of bullets left that gun into my son. He just turned 17 years old. And I, yeah, he just turned 17 years old and he walked out the house. Will you show our viewers as well? Thank you. Yes, he just walked out the house and he saw the perpetrator just wanted to shoot the neighbor down the street. And my son put himself in the way and said, run, run. And everybody ran that was on the stairs. And I think it was about 10 of them. They all ran. And the only person was left was my son. They walked past my son. They didn't know who he was. He was just the person walking out the house on his way to work. And everybody ran. The only person was left was my son. And because he opened his mouth and said, run, they used him as the target and shot him 30 times. And to this day, I still think that's an overkill. And to this day, as his mother, I still think why did you shoot him that many times? And he didn't die there. He died at San Francisco General six hours later. I don't know how his little body held those bullets. I just don't know. But he was a fighter. He was always like what I always tell him. When we see crime or something on the street, say something. When I see people doing stuff, and I'll pull over and call. And they always see me doing that. And I know he did only what he saw me doing. So he'd leave behind two sisters. He was my only son. And at 17, they had to take his life. That day, my life changed. This, a part of my heart is done, my arm. It doesn't matter. This changes you. I never drank before that I started drinking. But that's old now. I finally doubted myself. I said, I gotta stop doing this to myself. I need to get out and bring attention to this crime that's happening on our streets. So I started going to the healing circle with mothers and fathers who've lost their children to homicide and hate crimes or whatever it be. And I stood up and that's why I'm standing up now because we learn how to stand up. I always sit in the back, but I learn how to come to the front and say what I need to say about our children. I talk with my pictures. I go down to 850 down at City Hall. I stand in front of City Hall two, three days a week with my son's pictures. I stand in front of 850 Bryant Hall of Justice with my son's pictures because that is the melting pot. Everybody coming in and out of there. Even the perpetrators. Believe me, I believe they saw me and they probably know they shot my son. Six guys, six grown men. I don't have my pictures in order, but I take these pictures. He has, his father is from Nigeria. Me and his father are no longer together because he blamed me and I blame him. I go out to the schools to talk to the children. I go to San Quentin Prison because I need to know why people killed. What put it in their mind to kill? Why did you kill the person that you did? So I would go up to San Quentin and they would tell us, okay, we're not gonna negotiate for your life if there's a ride here. At that point I had lost everything that I had. So there was nothing more they could take from me. So I went in full force and I would bring my pictures and talk to them and understand what made you kill somebody. It was, you know, I thought I was hurting by myself, but they say hurt people hurt people and they do. And I needed to understand why did you hurt your victim? Why did you kill your victim? Because I went in there with hate. Straight hate, you know, and the perpetrator was there. But I started realizing that, you know, like I said, hurt people hurt people and it just wasn't me. They took their victims, they didn't give revenge because they said, well, you made my mother hurt so now I'm gonna make you hurt. I'm gonna take, you took my brother, I'm gonna take your brother, you know? So anyway, I needed to talk to kids because they think the bullet won't hurt them. They think that they're invincible, you know? And they can just walk out there and sometimes I think my son thought that he just wasn't gonna get hurt. And I said, a bullet doesn't have a name on it. It shoots you, it shoots whoever. So, you know, I take these pictures to the school and this is me standing over my son and the cash and I tell these kids, I say, do you want your mother standing over you like this? It took me a lot to do this and I didn't know what this picture was being taken of me when I was standing over my son. It was a lady at the funeral home who did this and I'm glad she did because I don't hesitate because I can stand and talk with my voice all the time but if you don't see what I'm going through, you'll never understand what I'm going through. So I want people to see the pain that I deal with every day, that I have to deal with every day. I also have his father, I can say that his father was from Nigeria, he was standing over his son too. So, like I said, we're no longer together and it's been seven years and we're no longer together because of that. And I have no desire of being back with him but we still grieve for our child. And what inspired me a lot was listening to, you know, I didn't know about anything until I started standing out there on the streets and I stood out there with my son's picture, his death picture of his body relived with bullets. I took, this was before the, this was after the autopsy where they turned my son's body from head to toe, lift his face up off of his body. His rib case wide open, you know, I'm, people say, why do you carry this? This is my story. This is my pain. I still have no justice. The perpetrators are still walking the street. So I use this to keep fighting. This is my purpose for fighting my son. Him laying on a gurney full of bullets, 17 year old boy, young boy, now looking like an old corpse on the table. So during that time, you know, I still go out and I still talk at places like this. I come and tell my story, whether it helps or whether to let other people see that it just doesn't stop at my door. It stops, this can happen to anybody. You can be an innocent bystander. I go out and I go to the police commission and let them know, look, this crime needs to stop. We have no venue. I have no venue for my son's wanted poster. All I can do is go out to a pole and stack it up there and watch somebody tear it down. So as much as you tear it down, the more I put it up, you know, I asked for a venue, put it in the schools, put it in a public library, put it somewhere so that perpetrators are, so the crime can stop. I think if I saw, if I killed somebody and I walk around and saw this picture and I killed this boy and I saw his picture hanging up sometime, I think twice. And I also think too, people of color don't get the justice that they deserve. And I'm gonna say this, if my, I believe my son was a little white boy, he would have been, his case would be solved down if he was a little white boy. If these pictures were hanging up and his face was white, I bet they wouldn't be torn down. This is what I have to deal with. This is my neighbors that I'm dealing with and this is the system that I deal with. When I walk in the courts and when I walk in the police commission, I show these pictures and I know they're tired of seeing me but I can't stop, I'll be doing this for the rest of my life. That was my child. He is still my child and that. And so this is what I do and I, like I said, I don't only fight for my child. These are other young men that I walk with their mothers often and we go places and speak. And it's just not, like I'm saying, even though these are colored young men, I have pictures of Pacific Islanders, Latinos, it doesn't matter. I can wrap this building with it that I carry with me every day in one bag and sit down there and hang them up. I've also asked the police commission, because you know these, we don't have, like I said, we have no venue. It's where were you when I was murdered? These were on the bus, but if they're not up there long enough, I decide out of mind. So that's what I do. And you know, like I said, these are other mothers that I walk with every day. These two mothers I stay, I walk with them. They've lost their children. I wish that they could be here tonight, but I wasn't sure what was gonna happen with me. But I'm glad I'm here and I'm glad I'm able to tell part of my story and that the crime needs to stop. It needs to stop. This is a mental issue. This is mental, mental on us as parents. You know, we can't go just take medication and say, oh, it's over with. It's not. This is gonna be a lifetime feeling for us. So, I'll let you say it. Thank you. Thank you. First of all, I'm humbled and honored to be on the panel of such a powerful ring. I know this says that we had a town hall meeting Love Life Foundation. I believe the first time I mentioned the radio broadcast, she told me that story. What shape he was growing up, black and he's open in the sixties, getting handcuffed to the sidewalk, because I had a big apple right in my bike on the sidewalk. My mother, when I was a small child, showed me in Matilda's picture. And to this day, no offense, I've never dated a white woman. She told me that story. I was terrified of white women. Even in high school, a white girl say, I'll be like, sorry, can't talk, keep walking. Right or wrong, but I'm saying, we grew up an era of terrorists. And thank God, we had the Black Panther Party for self-defense, who, you know, crossed the sides, educated us. I would hang out at the, I grew up in East Oakland. They had a headquarters, I believe it was on 90th to 91st, somewhere around there. We'd go by there and the brothers would talk to us. We'd watch them pull over to the police when the police had somebody jacked. So I didn't have a choice in terms of activism. And as an artist, prior to the murder of my daughter, almost every work, I don't, nothing against entertainers. Oh, give my regards to them, bro. Nothing, but that ain't me. We live in serious times. In 19, since 1996, I don't know how many of you know this, almost four million Congolese have been murdered in that conflict that the U.S. is funding the rebels. Nobody bats a knot, you're right. Black life is cheap. This young lady right here is my 16-year-old daughter. Her name is Loeshe, which is Igbo Nigerian, which means love, life, and I'll tell this story as briefly as I came. First of all, it's not lost upon me why her life and death came and what it meant to me and the repercussions that it has. I delivered her in the car while it was moving on 580 Freeway, troop story. I had one hand on the wheel and I was pulled in the head and she drove out on a truck flat. You can look at her birth certificate, you can look it up, don't take my word for anything. It says place of birth, 580 Freeway. Attending position, Donald Lacy, BD, baby's dead. I was the first person to say baby's dead, I was BD. But I delivered her, she was a hurricane. She was as bright as William Lighting says in the Bible in a lot of African cultures, the name of the thing for a person who describes it and loved life. So I was going back and forth between L.A. working as a professional in the entertainment industry. I didn't want my family down there because I had more of a support network with my family here who watched my family when I was around, so I would go back and forth two weeks down, two weeks up, or however much I could commit. But in the summer of 1997, as I was up here, she called me, as I was coming back up here, she called me and feel like she was crying. I said, what happened? She said, well, a friend of mine, James Valerie, they called him Newman, was murdered, right? Over there by her house, 26, in the chestnut, 30th in chestnut, and she said, I want to do something. I said, well, what do you want to do? She said, I want to write a play about stopping the violence. And I remember telling her how proud I was of it because I was just impressed that she took her grief and became proactive. So when I came back later that day, me and her cousins got together and we just sketched out some of the stuff. We didn't really get to work on it. But flash, four months later, October 20th, 1997, as I was about to go on stage at the improv, I got this 911 page. And I always tell people, do not page me 911, because usually when people page you 911, it's like, what time does the game start? You know that kind of stuff. So I always say, no. But for some reason I didn't think it was nothing bad. I thought it was something trivial. But her mother was crying to barely tell me that she was killed. What had happened was, she worked at McDonald's. She was a beast and she was a conflict resolution media which the city of Oakland and all its infinite wisdom canceled the program because point blank was too effective. And don't let me get on my soapbox about why these things were like they are. But long story short, she was coming from her job waiting at the bus stop with a printer first who her mom had took in, was having trouble with her mother. She was seeing some young man who was kind of in the game, as they said. What they did know, she was sitting in the back seat of this van and he was in the front and Maya, her friend, was in the front seat next to him. But soon as the car stopped, four individuals walked up on the van shooting at him and he ducked and she took all of the duck five, seven bullets penetrated her body. And so my first reaction, because I've never been involved in street activity but I always knew people who were. And I got plenty of calls that night from people who said they knew. But let's be clear, we know who the murderers are. When the police say we don't know, that skews my life, that's bullshit. And forgive me if I get a little agitated because when I hear this sister's story, you don't understand, since this happened 16 years, all I've been dealing with is death. Death, and the part that just bothers me, nobody is better than I. Even our so-called leaders. Barack Obama had to be shamed to come back to Chicago. 500 plus murders, that's an outrage. So my initial action was to get revenge but I talked to my grandmother, it was 101, she just passed away two months ago and she told me something to turn me around. She said, grandson, what the devil meant for evil, God was gonna turn you good. And then I thought about the conversation I had with her. I said, no, I'm not gonna, I don't want, I called everybody else, I said, no, leave, don't let justice be served, however justice is served. But what I wanted to do is make something good. I want to take her vision and do something. So my friend, who I've known forever, stopped his job, he started operating his office, we didn't have any money. And that's another source problem. You have all these nonprofits, no offense to anybody, get all these money because they write good grants. But the rubber ain't meeting the rubber, trust me, trust me. The rubber ain't meeting the rubber. So we just got involved with these youngsters and my nieces started helping me with sisters, friends, to this day we don't have a board necessarily other than family and friends. If I had made one mistake, it's a lousy administrator, I'm not no pencil pusher, but I do know how to mobilize people. We mobilize thousands. On the spot where she was killed, we had 2,500 people out there, Barbara Lee was there, the mayor, we marched through the town of the killers. Even some of the killers were there. So I say all this to say that I feel like I'm fighting a 12 alarm fire with a squirt knife. But this good news is, while I lost one, I've been able to reach thousands. And I don't get paid to do it, nor do I care to. Nor do I care to. It's the right thing to do. Don't wait until the bullet hits your door to get active like my sister or other people. This is a national emergency and what is so alarming again, even our black leadership. They're not doing shit. And I don't know what else I have to do. I got invited to the White House and I'm not saying that to pat myself in the back, but I'm going to speak the truth. I don't care about making people uncomfortable. I'm sick of eight-year-old kids opening the door and getting shot up, one-year-old babies. This is ridiculous. We should all be ashamed of us. I'm ashamed to say I live in this country. And because they're black, no one is batting in. Oh, we need more witnesses. Bullshit. There was a lady, God rest her soul, who was jogging in Concord. They found a cigarette butt. They convicted the man on the DNA. It wasn't a witness. The witness was the cigarette butt. So you're telling me, when it comes to solving the crimes of black kids, there's a burden of proof that you don't care till you're dead. But this white one, no life is more valuable than any other. Yes, that was horrible what happened in Newtown. I cried for days. These are babies. But it happens every day and nobody's dead now. So to cut off, yes, art can be acted, but we need to be like in the civil rights. We need to start turning over tables at City Hall and saying enough is enough. Do something about saving our kids life. Otherwise, we deserve what we get. I had a quick question, but I also kind of want to open it up. So I want to ask, how long are we going until? I know that Ms. Elise has got to leave at 7. And are we going to end at 7? 7.30. Oh, 7.30, OK. So maybe because you're going to leave, can we get some? I have a question, but I'm going to hold it back so people in the audience can have the best questions. Does anybody have something you'd like to ask the panel? I'd like to ask Don. I met Don on my two sons' road with Austin Grant and I asked him, Grant, what's the matter? And that's how I met Don Lacy. And what bothered me is, like, from each other's story, like, you know, being an activist, this was when it started getting to me. One time I was at a sports park, and a mother walked up to me and she said, you did a good job for Austin Grant. But who is our voice now? I was like, what do you mean? And she was like, you know, there are mothers out there that lose their sons every day. But we're not, where's the, when one year old baby is killed, where's the outrage for that? But when a white police officer kills Austin Grant or Ramona Grant, you tear the whole town up. But every day, 500 murders in Chicago, 135 in Oakland, 170 in San Francisco, 500 in New York. But there's no outrage when it's black on black or brown on brown time. But in no disrespect to it, it's like, the white police officers come out to do that. But why aren't you doing that when our young men are being killed? I couldn't even imagine what you and Donald were going through, because every day, I leave with that fear of losing both my sons. I call them every minute where you at, where you at. I know 10 of these mothers that lost their sons. And there's no outrage. There was no outrage when a straight A student named Terrence Kelly, he played football a day in the south. He was on his way to Oregon, scholarship, had a future head of him. The night before he was about to go to Oregon, he was shot eight times. I don't know who it was, man. Shot eight times. There was no outrage about that. There's no outrage. I know what you're like. There's no outrage about this son. That's one thing we have to change. In order to change our community, we have to show that outrage when we're losing our sons and daughters and our babies. Not even that, we're losing grandmothers who are being shot. Two, a 49-year-old woman walking and opening. She was shot. This took them to hit the wrong person and killed this grandmother and told her grandkids, I mean, raising their grandkids, so their grandkids, I mean, back on going to the store. The grandkids, who's going to raise them? The Donald will affect that. This has. And we need to start being outraged about what happens to some of these. Absolutely. I would like to say quickly, there's something about showing the lost one. The body or the image of the lost one. That is a commonality to everybody here. So when you show the pictures of your son, we have this image here that no one's going to forget this face, right? And of course, as we know historically in 1955, what did the woman decide to do? Well, she showed the body. She left the casket open. She left the casket open. Didn't thousands of people come? Yeah. And she wasn't ashamed. You said you weren't ashamed. She said she wasn't ashamed either. Who needs to be ashamed of the perpetrators of crime? She said that she was going to leave that casket open, because there was no one. She said no one will believe in crime. And there was no way that she could describe to anyone what she saw in that body. Yes? I have a question about that. I've seen the documentary that was on maybe, that was aired out. The Antel story? Yeah, the Antel story. And I'm not sure if it was from that or another piece where, I read a piece where it said that if it happened today, she's not sure. She wasn't sure that she would have left the casket open. Is that true? No. No, she would have done it. She would have done it because she said that she could not describe the grotesque ugly faith of racism. And this is what she wanted the world to know and to see. And it by far was not the first young man who was killed in that man. But in 1955, we had television, which was able to send these pictures all over the world. And it caused an outcry, because this was a child. And people in other countries just could not believe that this was going on. Yes, it had been going on for years. But now, there was a media. There was a creative way of our business. Don't forget Jeff Manzine. She allows him to take the photographs, that kind of photographs, and publish them, which was a major. So to be able to get it out through mass media, like that, and to show the world. She just, in her spirit, which we all, I think, just that spirit runs through the veins of most of the women in that family, she would have opened it today, especially with what's going on today on here. And she's the only forefront fighting today. She fought to her death. Her last public appearance, she died about a few weeks after. She spoke against the death penalty. So she was moving and shaking even in her last week's life. Thank you. I just wanted to say that we had two problems. We had problems of people now accepting the African-Americans as human beings, and they shoot us down, other groups of people, and shoot us down like it, at the rake of the eye. And it doesn't mean anything to them. And then also, we have the African-Americans who will shoot us down, because we don't mean anything to them. I'm a art teacher, and I'm not talking about years ago. I'm talking about recently, me and the working children from five to 17, and a little five-year-old, we did maths. And he made this, and I still have to encourage the black children to color themselves brown, and they'll get you in bed. I don't want to be brown. I understand that our system perpetuates the idea that black is bad. Everything, like a kinky, is bad. But this little child, when he got through making this maths, when he painted it brown, he bought a red paintball on top of it. And I said, honey, well, why did you do that? And he said, people die. People die, you see. Now, one of the things that has an art teacher studied them in part, importance of art, that our children go through a school system that teaches them, that treat them like factory workers. And you know what happens when a person doesn't keep up on the line, they kick them to the curb. We have two problems. We have the problem of our society that hates us in general. I mean, the new Americans come here. I tell them all the time, I didn't come through Ellis Island. I built Ellis Island. I am the prime minister of America. I paid the way for you to get here. And then when you get here, you turn your nose up at me. You cheat me in your stores. And then also, we have to deal with the idea, if I don't like myself, then I'm not going to like you. And I'm telling you right now, today, there are black children who are growing up not liking themselves. And they're not going to get it from our society. They're going to get it from their parents and their aunts and uncles. So we have those two major fronts to fight on. And I thank you. Thank you and these for sharing your stories. Because that means that they killed your boy because they didn't like themselves. And then they killed any tear, because white people and other groups of people do not see our humanity. Very well said. I'm already late. But I just want to echo what that's just saying. And part of the problem is there's not enough black men left. And here's where it really went far. There was a white journalist who I had on my radio show. By the way, they're going to be on Saturday, Mom, and some of the two names. But he's called Gary Webb, Dark Alliance. Don't take my word for anything I said. This cannot be overstated. The tumultuous effect. I grew up in East Oakland in the 60s and 70s. You know, you had to be home before the lights came on. Mrs. Johnson, Ms. Butler could whip my ass. We had a community and a neighborhood. What in all this shooting? Can you hang out in the summertime till 1 in the morning? So why did it change? It all goes back to when the so-called greatest president and bad dog, Ronald Reagan, oversaw the Iran-Contra affair, where Freeway Ricky was a CIA informant on the payroll that distributed crack cocaine of Highway 5 between LA and Oakland. And if you look at the murder rate in the black community, when that exploded in the late 70s or 80s, it goes like this. Straight up exponentially murder in black communities and then it spread to other black communities. But this also changed laws, the indeterminate sentencing. If you're busted with a rock, you'll get five times the time of some white collar criminal who's got a pound of powder cocaine. It's got so bad, Thurgood Marshall, one of the greatest men to ever live, quit the Supreme, he couldn't believe how, excuse my language, how chicken shit the laws became. This was all due to dark lives. Gary Webb was murdered because he fell upon this story. So there was some hearings that Maxine Waters initiated and lo and behold, what happened, right as they were about to go from LA, I was in LA at the time, I went to one of the meetings in South Central. Lo and behold, right before this was to come to Capitol Hill, guess what? Monica Lewinsky popped up and the whole thing was dropped. So I say all this to say, Gary Webb unveiled the smoking gun of crack cocaine, which has warehouse more millions of black men in prison, more black men and women and children are dead because of crack cocaine. And that's where we need to start to see not only some kind of investigation, but some type of reparation if at all possible for the irreparable crime that has been done to our community by the US government. And again, don't take my word for it, look it up. Thank you all, I will see you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Don't take my word for it. Don't take my word for it. Don't take my word for it. Oh baby, don't. Next, I'll give up Obama administration. As I understand it, a lot of people were born in black community and also in the white community from out the mix, supported. And many more supported Martin Luther King. Obama comes from the Democratic Party. He doesn't come from Martin Luther King. He didn't come from out the mix. He doesn't come from the Panthers. Then come from many of those groups. How can most of the black people vote for Obama? No reform, because he was black. Yeah, but it was a mistake right there. I'm just gonna say, is he black? Well, if you got, you and we got tricked. You just described how many black people have been killed. How many people have been exiled from the United States? How much of an issue has been doing? Okay, Ron, so now let's hear the answer. I was answering, I voted for him because he was black. And I wanted to see a black president. And for my generation, okay, he was democratic. I'm democratic. Well, I was. I don't know what I am at this point. I don't know what I am. I might not be anything right now. But at that point, I was democratic. I was part of the democratic party. And my generation, we got out because it was a dream. And that was a dream that we had been taught. I had been told we would never have a black president, Ron. So for me, I wanted to see a black man as a president if it was gonna happen. And it seemed like it was something that could happen. And it did happen. So yes, I did vote for Obama because he was black. And qualified. Thank you. And if I might say so, many of us had our reasons for voting for president Obama. I hate people saying Obama, Obama. They don't do it to the other presidents. He's president Obama, like it or not. He came in and he had dreams, which we all know, that everything he wanted to do, he could not do because of the powers to be. He's controlled as well as all the others were. And what did he step into? What did he inherit? That presidents before him left undone. You know, they couldn't change it overnight. And there's no way the president Obama is going to change it in two terms. Oh, it's getting worse. Oh, it's doing this. It's not getting worse. He's trying his best to do something. He does not have the final say. So we know this checks and balances. We know that there's politics and control because it's a lot of things. If he had a power, he would be able to do it. The president is the president, but the president also has powers that's controlling and we all know this. But because he's black, he's supposed to reinvent the wheel and whoa, get it done. It's not gonna happen that quickly. It didn't happen with the white presidents. It's not happening with him. And the ones who follow, they're gonna have just as much trouble trying to get laws that they can pack because their skin is not brown, okay? Now I'm sick and tired. You got to look at the whole and see what he inherited and what he's fighting against. I still don't understand why people are against the Obama health act as they call it. Because it's not a black thing that need insurance. You have people that need insurance for free services and they can afford the paper. They don't because they know they can get free. So not everyone has to do their fair share. You're trying to get them to work, but there's gaps everywhere. Yes, the computer's broke down. And have, let me stop, because see you're taking me to the stop. All right, let's go, I agree. I think it's a, it's just a good deal with them. We're not all supposed to agree, right? Can you, can I, we haven't heard from him yet, sir? Hello ladies, my name is Gray Moore and I'm a glazer, a union glazer in the 70s, 70s, 70s, 80s. And I just want to say thank you for coming and sharing your stories. And my question is, the kind of right on the systems here, Cotel, which he so eloquently articulated, heard about, I try to make a long story short, but quick, that they self-hate within the black community, i.e. Russell Simmons made a video, X-rayed it, portrayed Harry Tubman in a negative light. And when I first heard about it a couple of months ago, I just kind of refused. I said, I ain't even deal with it. And then I was on a computer, let's not use it and just bang, popped up without looking at it. Renishi McBride, Detroit, and that horrible thing right there. And so, you know, Dr. Weston and T deserves a racism, white supremacy. And a lot of blacks, especially for men, can't figure out the system that we actually live in. So they, you know, they can't figure out so they, you know, fall to the pitfalls and the traps. And before somebody, you know, Russell Simmons statue, you know, quote, unquote, successful running around, paying homage and sitting with the Dalai Lama, and then he got this spiritual awakeness and enlightenment and all of this and take an icon on the level of using the white community like Harry Beatrice Stroll, Beatrice Stroll was the lady, Bessie Grocer did the flag, Susan B. Anthony. So that's what Harry Tubman means to me. And for her, for him, somebody of his statue, you know, successful, you know, monetary in all Latin America and has a platform where he puts artists and things out. But what would be in his mindset for if you have an African-American of that statue, statue, to be little icon like that of ours and put it out there for the world to see? So the question I'm trying to ask is, what do you, as you ladies go around America and speak, you know, to different artists and groups? And what do y'all see? Or what do you think about the society and what's going on within the black community as a whole to our mindset? So like the sisters express, we know some things, but we don't even like each other to somebody like that who do one of our shemals like that. So if y'all can just kind of speak on it a little bit. Alumni, you got that going on, which is being in that society, in that elite society. Negative publicity is still publicity. And I say that because right before that, back in February, we had Lil Wayne and somebody. Yes ma'am, yes ma'am. Well Lil Wayne, how many know what happened? So I don't have to literally go into it. The Lil Wayne did a song with another artist, Future, and he spewed some lyrics about Emmett Hill. He said, it's Voldemort who said, I beat that woman's body part that pushed me to help like Emmett Hill. And I just went right off. That's it, this is not gonna happen under my watch because it was other than respect. But it was negative publicity. And Lil Wayne is intelligent enough, he knew what he was doing. I don't care what anybody say this. It was negative publicity. But in that fight, that was a strategic, complete, it was a whole full-fledged initiative against him, okay? That was a campaign that we would after him. Got the endorsement deal dropped. But it was in stages. But in doing that, and in doing the research with that, I learned so much about Illuminati and that level, that tiered level, those artists who had that kind of money and different things that go on from public since the different ones, things I had heard about. And so the whole mental process of where they are or what they're doing, it's so far gone. And I think that has a lot to do with it. I can't imagine Russell Simmons, Beyonce and that whole, and when you look at some of the stuff, and I'm not this Illuminati person. I don't study Illuminati and get all off it today. But a lot of that, I think, has a lot to do with that Illuminati stuff. But it also has a lot to do with what the sister back here said. Our young children and our brothers and our sisters, they're not loving these things. They've lost their identity in loving who they are and in loving and embracing their color and where they're from and their heritage. So that's what I think it has a lot to do with. Just self-love and embracing who you are and loving and respecting yourself, you know. If I can, and did anyone else want to? Hello, can you say what she's saying about our children not loving themselves? I mean, there's a lot of children that, I mean, I'm just saying this because one of the children that I'm talking about was a lot of foster care than the foster care system. And they're without their parents or their father. And one of the young men that killed, was involved with my son, was a foster child. So I know, and me having raised foster children too, that they're not with their, they feel no love. They feel nothing. You know, they're nonchalant and they just don't care. They're in and out of jail. There's no one there to, I mean, you can give them all the love if you're the foster parent but they want their parents. They want their biological parents. So I think that has a lot to do with no love there for them and that caused them not to love themselves. They see other children with their mothers and fathers and they're wondering where their mother and father is. So I think that's a lot of self-hate for themselves that I see in the children today and even in the foster care system. And I really think that's a lot more comes from it. I have a quick question and there may not be an answer to this one, but I'm just gonna ask, in your work that you have done, is there, you've had successes and you've brought a lot of attention to the issues. And just for me, there's also a slight misstep you might have done that you might want to share about so because it's good to learn from very experienced people's mistakes as well as their successes. I don't know if you want to share that kind of a story. I have more stories of that nature in my work than successes, I have more mistakes to talk about, but I don't know if you do, but sometimes that's helpful for people who are thinking of getting active to say, you know, and I did this and it didn't go perfectly, here's why, here's why. So I don't know if you have something to add. We did a production some years ago from one of the anniversaries for Emmett Hill's murder. Was it the 5050 that made these angels? We did made these angels, which was a play that I conceptualized and a colleague of mine, he wrote. I felt that we weren't ready by the deadline and I think that I should have pulled the plug on doing the production by the actual date. Don't you think we kind of rushed and prematurely did that, and it could have been better? I think it could, I think that it was good, it was intended to have done, but it could have had been more refined and could have been presented in a different type of venue so that we would have been able to encompass a greater, we took a loss. We took a financial loss. The play was about May and Emmett's mother. It was about her and the work that she did after Emmett died. About the Emmett Hill players and the impact she had on them. And then the audience was full of the Emmett Hill players who were adults and their families and it was a huge reunion and there were some complaints from some of the people and how they were portrayed in this and that because of the actors that were selected and such. So I just think that for that, I wanted it to be perfect for the type of event that it was. I think we learned from that and then we learned that you always want to make a profit. You never want to take a loss. That was a financial. I don't think, even though he didn't make a loss. It was nice. We had a voucher. We had a voucher. We had a voucher. We had a repeat voucher. Yeah. Issue that he had, that's all. Oh, I thought you had to do that. It's just a quote because sometimes we do, we want things to be perfect. And you had time pressure, it sounds like, because it was a specific anniversary that you wanted to do that. And then speaking engagements. I had speaking engagements where I was one that I had necessarily prepared and when I got there, I shot off the top of the gun. Oh, I've done that. But you always want to give your best and I think sometimes I feel like I might fall short when people say I'm a little fat and I'm not my heart's pretty. Well, we're on the restricts because we know exactly what it's supposed to be in our own minds. Right. So other people might not even notice. Yeah. But you know every little part of it. Yeah, the sound system, the venue, the acoustics, I mean, we're still talking about, we should have, I mean, it's okay. Logistics. It sounds like it's about logistics. This isn't logistics. The idea was good and then sound ability. Okay. I was gonna, did you want to say? It's not the same, but you know, it's like we're, we had an event where we had Snoop Dogg come and wanted to do an event for the mothers and fathers who lost their children to homicide. And he came in and he said he allocated us, it was a big old wooden check and said, this is how much money he was gonna give us. And we went to the exotic, we had to appear at the exotic erotic farm with Perry Mates. We went there and we were all on the stage with our baby's pictures and stuff, not knowing that we were being used. We were being used. And they used our stories, used us and turned the money didn't even come to us. It was going out of the way. People were coming in that they didn't even lose a child and was getting that money. And the money didn't come to us. So it's, I really feel, I really, that's the event that I wish I'd never went to, you know. And then not only that, there's other parts where people use us and then throw us away. Come tell your story over here. You know, so now when I go tell my story, it's gonna be on me because I wanna do it. Or you're gonna give me a stipend. Something, you're gonna do something. If I'm gonna come shed my tears and let you see my pain, you're not gonna use me anymore. You're not gonna use us. Thank you for, you know, it's a strange question, but I appreciate what you've shared because it seems so for people to hear about that and not to avoid that situation. Thank you. Yeah, sure. I just wanna, just, these are being passed out in the community. Jack, how are y'all doing? Good. My assistant back here, he's passing, he should have it when he don't have one. But if you're gonna find us on social media, find anything about our foundation, please have one of the tick on the cards. Keep it up to us. I'm sorry. So we still have like a few minutes and I'm curious if anybody else has a question. Yeah, very good. In a society in a community that's dominated by the single story like Newtown, like 9-11 to this day, how do we get the stories that are more important or valuable or that we are impacted by as a community? How do we get those stories out and in the public in a way that reaches audiences like Newtown, 9-11, or RRU? I'm gonna honestly, truthfully, our campaign that we had against Little Wayne, social media is a beast. Social media that has thrown it out and you got the media calling us. I mean, social media has really, really helped us just catapulting us. I would say, it means social media campaign. Also, the other platform that was very useful was change.org. They reached out to us, we were gonna contact them anyway, but they reached out to us because of what was going on. Someone had called in for us and they called us because of the nature of what had happened and the family and the historical past of the family, but those platforms are huge. Social media is almost to me bigger than regular news outlets because people are youth, everybody, they're on there. Even on Twitter, they'll tell you what's trending news. The top trending news, I'm gonna cry out. The Little Wayne story lasted for months. That was the story that just never ended. We were tired of it. We were over it and it was still going. They're still talking about it. Still a few people talking about Little Wayne apologize on Twitter, but social media is a beast. That's like the biggest platform. Twitter and Facebook and most of the other one that I don't use, the one where you take the pictures. Instagram and it's not another one. There's a time. There's also like something out on YouTube and it goes viral. Oh, because you have a YouTube channel, but I have someone that runs that. That's one of the reasons we have that because someone volunteers to do it. I don't do that one. We have Facebook and the Twitter and the YouTube. I don't play with Instagram. If I can just take a quick comment. I'm an artist activist myself and I also teach guerrilla theater activism of using guerrillas. So it's actually there's techniques that I teach in a class called tactical beforehand. So I teach satire, ironing, protest as another one of my classes. I think your question is spot on. The question is if you don't have a lot of money, like let's say you don't own your own TV station like Rupert Murdoch does. Somehow his opinions are always heard in the world. What can you do? And of course we have some great examples here with our heroes that are here right now. But there are any examples and techniques that you can use when you don't have a lot of resources and influence or people in your pocket, you know, that sort of thing. And sometimes it involves a creative disruption, frankly. Sometimes you have to infiltrate a health insurance conference of corporations as my friends did and we had a guerrilla musical first out in the middle of their meeting which went viral on YouTube and CNN and MSNBC did whole things about it because no one had ever seen that before. All of a sudden people in the audience dressed in suits and ties and looking like they belong here got a certain singing of the song which satirized the corruption of the health insurance corporations, right? So I'm just giving you an example. It's not as dignified or important as what the civil rights movement did. I'm not trying to put it in the same category, it's very different. But these are things that now in this edutainment society that me and some of my colleagues in the yes man who were the billionaires for Bush, I started a group called the Clown Army. And yeah, we manifested an army of clowns that go march somewhere in the dirty, right? And it's just strange and disruptive enough that suddenly there's more attention to a few of the people who are involved. So I'm not gonna talk anymore because I'm not the main attraction. But I just wanted to throw that out. That's what I teach and that's what I do. Question. Oh yeah. What about like these video, like Vimeo and all that kind of stuff? Is that good stuff? I think so. I think so. If you can't afford your own television station. I know a lot of people do YouTube. What about the Southern Stone? I mean, I think YouTube is still like really pop, like Vimeo's great, but I think YouTube is still one of the default places. More than Vimeo. And it's one of our holy grails is to call attention to an issue, to do something that quote unquote, it's a cliche now, but goes viral. Which sounds like a disease. But the idea is like, what you do is so interesting and weird that people just pass it around. And the next time you check there's a million bits and now people are talking about the problem. Doesn't have to be something funny, by the way. It can be deadly serious as long as it's crafted and so forth. And it's not the end all evil. It's only one time part of a social movement. I don't want to say that's the most important thing. Sometimes me and my friends get confused like, oh, we made a successful disruption and people are, so it's only one thing, but it's a part of it. And I think YouTube is, people are passing it around. At least they're talking about it. Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to add to what are you saying that in terms of really getting involved in the community. I work at East Side R Alliance at East Oakland. It's a collective of cultural workers that work with the community. We do a lot of work and I don't think you really need to think about the media, how we need to approach the media, but just getting involved in those organizations, work with the community, try to really make some light to those. I mean, that's what we need to do. I've seen some great events in your space. Yeah, and it's just the intention that you need to have in order to change your community and from there, something might happen or not, but I think it's the intention of going to your community, to those people that are very involved in grassroots and I just participate in it, you know. Because there are a lot happening. Maybe they are not like in the big venues or in the big institutions, but I know there is a lot of people doing grassroots work very deeply in the community. Thank you for that point. It's not only about the spectacular, it's also about what's happening in the big world. So we have like maybe one quick question because we have like three minutes left. I think it's time for 30 minutes. Is it? Yeah. Maybe, or maybe, are we... Your question? This person had a question. Yeah, I've spoken already before. So, there isn't anybody else I know, so. She is so crazy. No, I'm just resting my hands on this. So what I found really interesting and what you said was that maybe it took advantage of the new technology and television to get that image out, to show the world what had happened. Because spectacle lynching wasn't anything new. Those were destination things. People would trade postcards and pieces of flesh from spectacle lynchings. So, what, if you haven't seen the performance, what I like a lot about the performance in the music and I see the composers here, is that from the documentary and the told story of Emmett Till there's a description of him as being a really light person and you confirm that that he was a jokester. And some of that music in there, I think, catches that spirit of him even though there's this heaviness to the piece. There's this weightiness to it. So there's this, I really enjoy that and just the idea of Mamie using that traumatic experience to try and transform the lives of other people using that trauma that she experienced to reach out and nurture other children and bring them forward. And it helped because a lot of those that Mamie told, the Emmett Till players became professionals and were nurtured. So, just the idea of trauma-informed therapy or trauma-informed works that are transformative. That really appealed to me. The composer. The composer. Oh, okay. We'll talk soon. And we have the co-opter as well. Hello, yes. I've tried to have Mamie's book here tonight. To sell. You'll be able to find it on our website. When I get back, I'm gonna have the special link to purchase it. You can go on there now and purchase it or you can get it on Amazon. But if you wait and purchase it when I get back, 50% of the proceeds are gonna be part of our hundreds and we have as an author to discount now to raise money for our foundation. She wrote a book right before she passed away. She completed it. She co-wrote it with Christopher Vincent who basically came and did some he directed questions to her to help her write the book. And she finished it right before she passed. She wasn't alive to see it completed and pulled together, but they had finished their part. Of course, we love the interviews before her passing. And it's a very interesting book. It's about her life and in it. It's not just about what happened to in it, but it starts from how she conceived them and all of that stuff that I was like, Mom, did you know that this happened to Mamie? You know, so, and I haven't read the whole book myself because when I read it, I hear Mamie's voice and it's very difficult for me. And then it gets long for me. I'm like, okay, this part is boring. He knows both. But it's a pretty good read if you really wanna really get to come and get inside her thoughts. You know the story. I love it. Okay, okay. I'm just saying when you say it's boring, some of it's familiar. Some of it. When she talks about me picking her up with Name Guy and how I was driving and stuff, I'm like that. I cried on that part. You know, when the book first came out, of course, I looked in the back of the index for my name. And I was like, where am I in the book? What did she say? What did she say, you know? Which was only like three parts. I was a little disappointed. But we all, as human beings, we all do that. I thought our war was a little bit more talking around in the book. There's also another book out. We don't have a Simeon story with the cousin of ours. He was the cousin that was actually sleeping in the bedroom in it when they came and took him away. So that's another book you might wanna read. That's a very interesting read. Very quick read. It's a very interesting story. Simeon's story is very interesting. Now I have that. It is 732. So I guess we gotta wrap it up. Is that correct? We have Simeon. I just want, can you please give thanks to our audience. Thank you. And for those of you who are seeing the show tonight, it's writing a story for you guys. It's fabulous. You guys are all seeing it. A little bit. Yeah, you both, you know, it's interesting. Hold on. I'm just talking about the other one. Yeah, yeah. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. He's ancient. This will be a march, yeah. It's very true. It's one of the best. It's not a flat, it's a flat. Flat.