 Welcome to London Live! Many atrocities have happened in the past few decades, whether it be Syria, Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan, atrocities such as Panachinar, atrocities of bombs dropping off in Afghanistan, atrocities like Daesh coming into Iraq and attacking multiple people and communities. Yet one small area of news that hasn't really touched us or nor have we actually gone and explored is the area of Burma and the atrocities taking place in Burma between two parties where it would be the Rohingya group along with the natives of Burma. I myself was very, very new to this and recently it has caught international attention since 2012. Now what is actually going on in Burma? Why have we not known about this? Believe it or not, just the other week there was an attack on the Rohingya group and millions of people have suffered and are appalled at what's happened where 300 were killed, including infants and children, beheadings, absolutely appalling. Why do we not know about this? Why haven't we gone out to help the Burmese people? Why has Twitter not taken off? Why is this not trending? Why haven't elders and important figures, be it political or non-humanitarians, why have they not spoken about this? Why has it not been brought to the attention of Muslims? The man on my right is Dr. Saydam al-Aqshani. Salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Wa alaykum wa salam wa rahmatullahi. How are you, Syrian? Very well, thank you, very well. So in atrocities that have been happening over the world, what's happening in Burma? The same way that you commented that you had very little knowledge about what's happening in that Myanmar region, known as the Burmese region and especially with the Rohingya people, I myself have to admit that I've hardly ever mentioned them in my lectures in the way that I may have mentioned atrocities that have taken place in Pakistan, for example, or Syria, for example, or Iraq, for example. And this is somewhat sad on our part that the few million Muslims who have lived there and have been displaced and have been forced to migrate, hardly receive any coverage on our pulpits, hardly receive any coverage in our media. But it's great that in the last week or so they've received more coverage possibly than they've ever received before, as in not only are you hearing Prime Ministers bring up the mention of the Muslims of Burma, but also you're hearing different newspaper outlets, different media outlets in general, who have sought to wake up the world on this issue. When you're looking at the history of this particular area, you find the Muslims have been part and parcel of Burmese history for the past couple of hundred years. The Rohingya people were a group of people who had settled in that region known as the Arakan region of the whole general area, the Myanmar. And this was part of a period where Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists used to all live in the same area. Of course, with the British having control of Burma for a certain period of time, you had Indians who had migrated towards Burma. At the same time, you had the Bengal area, which had brought in people from modern-day Bangladesh, people from India all coming towards the region. Now, the Muslims were a majority, the Rohingya Muslims were a majority in that Arakan region. And I would say if you're examining the past 60 odd years, this brings about a sense of anger by certain elements within the Burmese political world. And especially in the religious circles, you find that's ultra nationalist Buddhist monks. Now, this might be surprising for many because whenever you hear about Buddhism and Buddhist monks, it's always in stark contrast to Islam and Islamic clergy. Islam and Islamic clergy, you always see that there is an emphasis on attacking them as fundamentalists, as terrorists, as extremists. The Buddhist monk is always the man of peace, the man of discipline, the man of spirituality. You'd rather have a Buddhist coffee table book than a Muslim coffee table book. Yes, you see the Buddhist book of Proverbs, but you'll hardly hear about the Muslim book of Proverbs. And so it's very unusual for a person to imagine that there would be an element of Buddhism who would be so racist, so arrogant. But then there's no doubt every religion can have those elements. Islam has those elements. Buddhism has those elements. People without religion may have those elements. People who don't even believe in a God, for example, may have such attributes. But you find that these people have been the victims of oppression to the extent that they're not even recognized anymore as the Rohingya people of Burma, for example, or the Myanmar. They're now called Bangladeshis. Really? Yes, you see 500,000 of them who've had to either migrate or have been displaced, either having gone to Bangladesh or India or even to Thailand in some cases, simply because of the persecution that they've had to face. Muslims who've been burnt alive. Muslims who've been beheaded. And there are so many different other persecutions that have taken place, which the whole world does not know about. There are reports that possibly the most persecuted minority of people in the world are the Rohingya Muslims who live in that Myanmar region. You see these Rohingya people, I mean, have they been settled in Burma from, is it recently? You're talking about people who have been settled in Burma for over 200 years? 200 years. You're not talking about someone who got settled in Burma 20 years ago. These are people who have been settled in Burma since one may argue the 18th century. Wow. And at the beginning, you've got three, four million Muslims who are living in their separate states, which we call the Arakhan state. They're living within their separate state. But there's a threat seemingly that these people are allowing a religion to flourish in the face of the dominant religion, which is, of course, Buddhism. And so what excuse do you give? You don't give the excuse that Islam versus Buddhism. You say that these people are stateless people. These people are meant to be here. Now we know very well, if I live, for example, in the UK, I'm of Iraqi origin, let's say. I'm of Lebanese origin, let's say. I'm of Pakistani origin, let's say. I live where in the UK. Definitely I'm not someone who's a national at the beginning or a citizen at the beginning. But say over time, the country recognizes me that I'm someone who's deserving of rights to live here. My skin color may be different, for example. But I still deserve to be of those who is able to live here. Sadly, you find that this is not the case in Burma. In Burma, what's happening there is that these people are called Bangladeshis. You're not Burmese. And they're not recognized as people who deserve any rights. And so sadly now, when we're witnessing the news outlets, Muslim, non-Muslim, Middle Eastern, European, everybody's got together and is thinking to themselves, hold on a minute. Firstly, Buddhism that's given itself such a wonderful image. Now the image is on the spotlight. But secondly, and sadly, why is it that in the 21st century, we're still living in a world where a group of people, because of their race, because of their ethnicity, are still facing the apartheid of yesterday's. So what do you think is actually happening? Is this more of a political issue or does it have the jumped on the religious bandwagon to claim religion as a nationality that this is who we are and we are different? Both are being abused. I think both. I think with the reforms and the legal processes and the revolutions that have taken place in that region, they've all sought in one way or another to enact laws which would ensure that these people cannot become citizens of the state, that these people will always be outcasted. You see, for example, somewhere talking about the fact that there should be a national verifiable identity scheme where people are able to be nationalized, where people are able, for example, to be nationalized as citizens of Burma. And sadly, what you find is that until today, that scheme has not been enacted in the way that it should be. Why are 500,000 people going towards Bangladesh? Why are people being displaced? Why are there so many refugees having to leave the country? It's because these people, their rights are not being recognized at all. Had their rights been recognized by the political system, then there is no way that these people would have to flee the country. Their rights would be recognized by the system. But likewise, at the same time, that is not to hide the fact that ultra nationalist Buddhist monks, people who claim to be people of positive energy and dignity and spirituality. These are people who are all parts of the crimes and parts of the atrocities as well. So when you're asking me, politics and religion, are they separate from each other on this issue? They're not. The religious of the Buddhists are involved in the massacres of the Muslims and the cleansing of the Muslims. And likewise, you find that politically, some of the laws that have been passed will no way help these people become citizens of the state. It's outrageous. I mean, you'd never think people from a religious background would come to such, you could say, back-mindedness and such hate. I mean, when you both know Buddhism has a philosophy of, you know, pacifism, you know, non-violence, non-aggression. And all of a sudden, has it been abused and turned around? Or do you think there's something more internal? Habibi Islam, people say Islam is the religion of peace. And there's one comedian once said, yes, it's the religion of peace, peace here, peace there, peace everywhere. Buddhism, likewise, if someone tells me it's a pacifist religion, that does not mean that there aren't going to be certain elements who are going to be extreme in their judgments. Those extreme elements, of course, should not be generalized as the whole image of the religion. We've always tried to defend ourselves in saying, for example, that ISIS should never be seen as the representative of the whole of the religion of Islam. And likewise, these elements should not be seen as the whole of the representatives of Buddhism. But no one can deny that there is a religious undertone there where there's 50 odd million Buddhists, let's say, three, four million Muslims. And they want to make sure that these people are cleansed. These people are to be removed. Yes. Just a quick note to all our viewers out there is that the phone lines are open. And if you'd like to call in with a question, you can call us on 0203-5150-199. Also, we have the WhatsApp line open. You can WhatsApp any question. And we'll try and answer that for you on 07-939-917-163. Also, the code for England is 44. So make sure you put that just before the number. So talking more about what's going on in Burma and also with atrocities and such forth, I mean, what are the Muslims there being deprived of? I mean, okay, so you could say that they're there. They're being attacked. First of all, why don't they just leave? You know, why can't they go somewhere else? Or do they have a right to be in Burma? And then being in Burma, how difficult is life for them? What are they being deprived of? You can't just say to a group of people who've been living in an area for three, four hundred years, for example, that, okay, pack your bags and leave. These people weren't troublemakers when they had come towards this country, nor were they people who have imposed themselves on anybody in that country. There's no Muslim who's going around trying to spread the religion of Islam over there. On the contrary, there is even an element of them that is of the Sufi school. They're hardly ever involved in theology or legal discussions. There's mainly a focus on spirituality. And Sufism has been part and parcel of the Rohingya people for, you know, a couple of hundred years. But at the same time, everybody has to stand up against a system which is like an apartheid system. As in Nelson Mandela, for example, when he stood up against apartheid in South Africa, the reason he stood up against this was because he wanted to make sure that future nations do not have this racist arrogance in them continue. That someone has to stand up. That's what is it? My skin color is a problem. When you call me Bangladeshi and you don't call me Burmese, 200 years living in this country, I've not participated in this country. I've not served in agriculture in this country. I've not helped in the businesses of this country. So for a person to simply say that, you know what, the Rohingya people should just pack their bags and leave on the country. The Rohingya people view themselves as one of the tribes of the country. You could call them Bangladeshis all day long. They view themselves as people who are now established within the Myanmar region. But when you're talking about what type of rights are they deprived, health rights, first and foremost, mortality rates, you should see the rates when it comes to childbirth and survival rates of childbirths over there because many of them don't have access to the same medicine or the same hospital equipment and hospital facilities as everybody else who's living in the country. So when they don't have that access, naturally there's going to be situations where malnutrition is there, diarrhea, many of them because of the displacement. You find that what's around them is very unhygienic. And these are innocent Muslims who are facing the worst of the environment that surrounds them. And I don't care if it's a Muslim or not a Muslim. This is something very important for us to mention. Any human being should not be deprived of these two areas. Number one, health and their ability to go to the health facilities surrounding them. But number two, education. Not being allowed to be educated, not having your kids be allowed to go to schools, having your area surrounded so that you make sure that the children of that particular group of people are not educated. These are two areas that the Muslims of this region have had to face persecution in for years. Since 1960, 1961, the Rohingya people have been victim of persecution after persecution. And every time they try and stand up for their rights, they're either silenced or they're displaced, thrown to Bangladesh. You know, for us when we leave our countries, say a thousand, two thousand of us leave 10,000s a lot, 500,000 having to be displaced to Bangladesh simply because of racist attitudes and arrogant thuggery is something which is ridiculous. Indeed. So health and education are the two areas that the Rohingya people are being deprived of the most. Got the basic political rights that every human being should have in a democracy where they're allowed to vote. But health and education may call break the future of a human being's life. A human being who has no access to the best of facilities in the health system or a human being who's not allowed to educate themselves. That type of apartheid system is a system that people must speak out against. I mean, looking at politics, the political process there in Burma, because apparently it's a democracy, are these people not recognized or acknowledged by the government? I mean, do they, are they not in the system, let's say? As I said, they're not even viewed as the people of Rohingya anymore. They are viewed as Bangladeshis. Some call them Indians. So you could, you could say this is of some form of ethnic cleansing. Well, ethnic cleansing has taken place. Now, there are certain prominent figures who don't want to call it ethnic cleansing. But you found some people from different UN teams who have tried to go in there. When they've gone in there, they've had a look at what's happened, and they believe that this is an ethnic cleansing and deserves to have that title. We're not talking one or two people dying. And we're not talking about a war that's taken place where people have lived together in peace for 200, 300 years. They've been victim of oppression after oppression, politically and religiously for a couple of hundred years. So yes, if someone wants to call it ethnic cleansing, it's not just me who's giving it that title. People from the UN who've been sent as teams to go and investigate what's happened have come back with such reports. So I mean, what has the UN done or what internationally has been done to help these people? I mean, is there more that should be done? Well, Tayyip Erdogan, you know, of course, the head of Turkey, he has spoken out vehemently about what's happening over there. And you've got different newspapers and different media outlets who have spoken out as well. Now, this speaking out against what's happening over there, this has occurred on and off for the last, I would say, good six years, that whenever someone heard about something happening in Burma, then straight away you would find, for example, that there would be a report or two. There'd be footage of Buddhist monks torturing seriously the people of the Rohingya. Yes, there would be footage. And the footage is available online of these people who claim to be men of discipline and men of the highest chastity and the highest dignity, torturing these people, torturing them simply because they believe that they don't believe they don't belong to that area or that region. And then they should go back towards Bangladesh. But now I think the effort is more concerted than it's ever been before. Now, I think Muslims, non-Muslims, different media outlets have decided that someone has to speak out for these people. Otherwise, every day, hearing 300, 400 people being killed, their houses being burnt, food and water supply not reaching them, I think now the effort is much more concerted than it was. It's terrible. I mean, I was reading up on figures. I mean, there was UN figures saying that 140,000 people have actually participated in attacking refugee camps in the areas. And I mean, I was reading up on an independent where even our own foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, he's actually spoken out against this and spoken to the leaders. And I mean, like you were saying, recently it's been coming more into the media. But why do you think it hasn't affected the Muslim media as much as Muslims? Why are mosques not talking about this, you know, and because they are brothers and sisters as well? Well, I can't generalize and say every single mosque hasn't spoken about this. But I do think, sadly, the Muslim community sometimes is so stuck in their own culture or their own country that they forget about the Muslim community being one body. We have that famous hadith that states the ummah is like one body. Yes, if one part of that body is hurt, then the rest of the body is hurt. So when we say the ummah is like a body, if one part of it is hurt, the rest of it is hurt, I should be hurt straight away whenever I hear about a member of the Muslim ummah being persecuted. I think sadly, in our mosques, the Iraqi is very concerned with what's happening in Iraq. The Iranian only cares about the Iranians. For example, the Pakistani is concerned about what's happening in Parachinar or in Kashmir. And what begins to happen is that we don't begin to even inquire. Sometimes our lack of travel to other communities and our lack of interaction with other communities because our community centers may be based on culture and language rather than on religious denomination only as a criteria. It means that we don't know what's happening in those regions. We've forgotten that the trade routes and colonialism and many other factors meant that there were Muslim communities that have grown in virtually every area. But you're absolutely right in saying that it's very sad that there's hardly been any discussion of the Rohingya people and the sufferings that they've gone through at all in our communities. Like, you know, for me, for example, on my Facebook, that's where my admin team had received a message that don't forget to talk about the people of Arakhan. And when we done more research, I knew about the Rohingya, I knew about, you know, Myanmar and the Burmese region. But Arakhan being the area where these people used to live, once you begin to open those files, you begin to see a group of people who are literally persecuted simply because someone doesn't like their skin color or not skin color. I don't like the fact that you're living in my country and you're not someone who is born and bred or a national here in the way we believe that someone should be defined as being a national in this country. So I do believe there is the onus on the Muslim communities to try and come forward and think more about these minorities. And mind you, said Muhsin, it's not just the Burmese. There are Muslims in Philippines. No one talks about the Muslims persecuted in Malaysia. No one talks about. There are Muslims who are persecuted in many parts of the world who nobody even talks about. We talk about the same four, five, six countries. So I think it's high time the Muslims, as the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, his family says in that famous hadith, man asbah wa lam yahtem bi'mur al muslimeen falaisa bi'muslimeen. The one who wakes up and does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not a Muslim. Many times if you ask a person, what's a religious Muslim? They say he fasts, he prays. He prays, he fasts. You want to have a reference for someone for marriage? Straight away, they ask you, does he pray? Does he fast? Instead of them asking, is he concerned about the affairs of the ummah? Is he concerned about people who are going through oppression? Is he concerned about those who are persecuted, who have no voice? Islam in its origin was a religion where a person would be concerned about all the affairs of the ummah. When I meet certain people in the world, I remember I met a group up on Middle East who didn't know they were Muslims in India. Wow, seriously? Believe you me. They are surprised when they hear that they are Muslims in India. And when you tell them they're our followers of Ahlul Bayt in Pakistan, they are surprised. So this ignorance sadly is something that we have to remedy very quickly. What do you think is the solution or what would help the community step in the right direction of solving this problem? That we are not receiving enough information and we are not discussing our Muslim brothers and sisters who may have a different language to us, maybe they have different features to us. Maybe originally they weren't Muslim and now they've come to Islam. And some of them, for example, like Nigeria, they came to Islam, they came to Ahlul Bayt as well. So what are the right steps and what is the direction for our community to go towards? Well, I think in every mosque in the Muslim world, there needs to be an office for the Maulana or the Sheikh. And there needs to be an office for people who are involved in the outreach and the political affairs of the Muslim community. I think that is something fundamental. I think you can't just have a case where people in the crowd know about what's happening in the political world, but there's no statements being made about it. There has to be an office dedicated to a media team that is able to keep in touch with the Muslim community worldwide to act as a voice for that community. It's sad today, when I walk into a mosque, if I see an office for the Maulana, for example, but I don't see an office for political or media outreach. There has to be an office which is dedicated to the service of the Muslim communities around the world, especially the minorities. Thank you. We have a call on the line. Can you give us your name and where you're from, please? My name is Maria. I'm from Birmingham. I'd like to, I think that this is one of the topics that should have been spoken a long time ago because this has been happening for so long. And I keep seeing, like Seya Damara said, that there are videos up there. And I think it puts us to shame as Muslims. I think for a fact, it's not because we can't do, it's not because we don't want to do anything about it, but it's that feeling of helplessness to think that we are not able to do anything about it and how the people are being butchered, especially about the minorities today that they've spoken about. So I think it's that feeling of helplessness that we're not able to help those people in any way because we don't know what and where we can do it. So I think that there is this feeling that we want to help. And I think some of us do think out of our communities, but what should we do is that question. It's because the only thing that I think really gives us pain and makes us feel really guilty that we are unable to do anything about it, just watching them. It just, I think it's very painful to see how our own Muslim brothers and sisters, regardless of what ethnic ground they're from, how they're feeling and what they're going through. It's just ridiculous. So I think I would like to just say that it's a commendable topic to talk about, and it should have been done a long time ago. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much, Esther. Thank you for the call. We really appreciate that. Thank you. Interesting comments and also, yes, another question, do you know that could arises? Okay, there's an issue in Burma. What can we do? What should we do? Well, I think there are certain segments of the Muslim community who have worked tirelessly over the years to try and provide a link between the community and the different segments of political society. If you were to look, for example, Alkhoi Foundation has done a lot of good work in trying to provide a bridge between the community in London, for example, and the political powers and, for example, members of royalty who they're able to get in touch with and philanthropists and people who are involved in charity projects. And I think if you take a leaf out of their book, it is fundamental that a person builds relations in political activism with their local MP, with their local member of parliament. Believe you me, our local MPs will go a long way to write a letter which could definitely influence an ambassador or two to take a stand against what's happening to these innocent people. What do you say about those who say, oh, the MP doesn't do anything or they've got their own agendas or they're busy with something else or they don't even care about our affairs as citizens of England and the concerns that we raise forward. Would you agree with them or would you say actually no MPs are actually doing something on the country doing something very, very different? Had the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon his family, thought like that, there wouldn't be a single Muslim in Africa today. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon his family, told Ja'far al-Tayyar, the brother of Imam Ali, peace be upon him. He said to him, go to Africa. There is an Abyssinian priest who's a good human being. Tell him that we Muslims are being persecuted. The Rohingya issue reminds me of the early days of the religion of Islam, where the Muslims were persecuted, where their houses were attacked, where the Holy Prophet, peace be upon his family, was insulted on a daily basis, with one calling him Ebtar and another calling him Sha'ar and another calling him Majnun and another calling him Kahin. And Ammar sees his parents, Yasir and Somaya, killed in front of him and Bilal feels the scorching heat and the rock of Arabia on his body. But the Prophet Muhammad could have sat back and said, let's just rely on God and see what happens. But what does he decide to do? Be proactive. Not reactive. Proactive. Start building the relations so that if there is a moment of concern, you've already got the links. And therefore, you find that there is a moment where Ja'far begins to explain the persecution to the Abyssinian priest. And while Amr Abdel Aas is working his hardest to say that we are not doing any ethnic cleansing, there's no apartheid on our part. We're not racist. Ja'far begins to explain, no, no, they are. We're being racially treated. Bilal is being looked down upon because of his color and we're being frowned upon because some of our people are poor. And some of our people are being frowned upon because they're from different countries. That Abyssinian priest, if we had the negative mentality, nothing would have changed and none of us would have gone to approach them and would have sat back home and there would be no Islam in Africa today. The Abyssinian priest said, you know what? I've heard what you've said and it makes sense. And from that day onwards, Islam grew in Africa, having been persecuted when the Muslims were a minority where in Mecca. Therefore, when a person discusses the issue of persecution of Muslims, they must take a leaf out of the book of those early Muslims and chapter 22 verse 39 to 41 of the Holy Quran. Allah says these people were kicked out of their houses simply because they said simply because of their belief in Allah. Such a small reason. But what we did with these people is make them defend themselves so that every synagogue and church and mosque would be protected. Notice here that we can live in a Burma or the Myanmar region. We can be in a society where Buddhists and Muslims and Christians could peacefully coexist. And the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family wants to show this that although we were a minority in Mecca, when we moved to Medina, we believe that the Christians and Jews already live in Medina can also live in peace alongside one another. So a person must take the leaf out of the book of early Islam to see that in those early days when the Prophet peace be upon his family and his companions were being persecuted, did they just rest on their laurels and say let God protect us? Or did they just sit back and not build relations? Or were they proactive? Only then will you see the lessons learned. So coming back to what we can do for the Burmese people, how we can raise concern in issues you were talking about, you know, writing to your MP. I mean, how effective is writing to an MP? Well, I think the first thing that we could do is read dua for them. And sometimes people will look at that and say, dua, what's that going to change? Remembering a group of fellow believers or remembering a person who is being oppressed and dua goes a long way. When you sit down on your prayer mat, sometimes you think of yourself, Ya Allah, look after me. Ya Allah, do this for me. Ya Allah, do that for me. I think Allah was guilty of that actually. Allah was guilty. And I think what's needed is for a person to recognize that for dua to be accepted, you think of others before you think of yourself. So what a person should be doing is saying, Ya Allah, protect the people of Burma. And especially those people of the Rahinjah who are being oppressed, ethnically cleansed, who are given no rights in health and education, read dua for them. That's number one. Number two, talk to your local foundations. If you're living in the UK, for example, you've got foundations which do political work in the sense that they have political relations. Like we mentioned, Al-Qui Foundation, for example, talk to those foundations who do charitable work like the Zahra Trust, for example, who do brilliant work on the ground and tell them if we can take food to these people, take our clothing to these people, send donations to these people. Displacement is one of the most difficult things that person can ever take. That's it, that's it. I believe we have another caller on the line. Salamu alaikum. Wa alaikum as-salam. Your name? Ya we can hear you loud and clear. Your name and where you're calling from, brother? Yes, my name's Hudson and I'm calling from London. Mashallah, Mashallah. Your question or your comment, please? Okay, so my comment actually is regarding the issue at hand. I'd like to say that firstly, there's a lot of grassroots support, so for example, for causes in the Middle East, such as the Palestinian issue, but we see that when it comes to like Asian affairs, such as the Rohingya plight or the Kashmiri people's plight, then there's not that much support that comes from the Middle East regarding these issues. Well, my question to the other mar is, how can we create more awareness in that geographical part of the world so that we can bring change and more grassroots support for these Asian issues? Thank you very much for your question, brother. Salamu alaikum. I completely agree with the brother. I remember a few years ago in London, there was a demonstration for the people of Iraq. Our Indian and Pakistani brothers all were there. Mashallah. I remember when there was a demonstration for Parachinar, Quetta. Yes. And the Hazara people. Yes, yes. I hardly saw any Iraqis there. This is by the embassy. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. And I was embarrassed in all honesty. I found it very interesting, all the Indian and Pakistani Maulanas were at the Iraqi demonstration with the Iraqi Maulanas. But the Iraqi and Iranian Maulanas, not many of them were present at the Pakistani demonstrations. I've been fortunate enough to have traveled to India and Pakistan. Mashallah. Having lectured in Mumbai and having lectured in Karachi. Mashallah. And I saw the most wonderful people there, lovers of Ahl al-Bayt, Alaym Al-Salam. And you hear about what they have to go through, bombings in Majalis, shootings outside of Majalis. Lovers of Ahl al-Bayt, be they the Kareen of Al-Muhammad, be they Ulema of Al-Muhammad, be they those who recite al-Noha, al-Marthiya, al-Mattam for Al-Muhammad being killed? No. And there is a need for us definitely to speak out a lot more about the atrocities there. We know very well that Pakistan, especially in the 80s, received major funding from Saudi Arabia for Shia to be persecuted. The mid-80s saw a rise to the mid-90s of wonderful personalities there being killed and persecuted. And I see recently the likes of Imran Khan, for example, trying to speak out when he saw what took place, for example, with the killings of the Shia, speaking out to saying that for how long is Pakistan going to go in this direction? Where innocent people are taken off a bus and massacred? Where bombs are placed in mosques and massacred? And Pakistan used to be a place. Sunni and Shia would sit in the same lectures, marry from one another, no issues whatsoever. And now, because of the spread of Wahhabi Salafi ideology towards those regions, you see, sadly, some people have been affected. But we have to try and find ways where we can all unite, where there is intrafate dialogue between us and these countries, where the Ulema of both schools come and try and remove these sectarian ideologies that are spreading. I see. So, I mean, more concerned about the Middle East and the power that they have, especially in the Muslim world, you know, as a university or the houses of Qom and things like that. I mean, what can we do to get them to do something? Well, I think Qom and Najaf need to be a lot louder. And al-Azhar have to be a lot louder in their support for some of these persecuted minorities in South Asia, for example, or in the Far East. I hear when something happens in Iraq or in Lebanon, Iran, you hear the house of Qom and Najaf straight away speak. But I think there needs to be voices which are a bit louder, inshallah. Thank you very much, Sayyed. We're going to a break now, and inshallah, please join us after the break. We will continue with our discussion on the genocide in Burma. Qom, rahmatullah, wa reqatuh, dearest respective viewers, and welcome back to London Life, where me and Dr. Sayyed Aman al-Qashwani are discussing the recent genocide attacks in Burma. Sayyed, now we were talking about the hoses doing a bit more and its big Islamic institutions. I mean, do you expect more from these Islamic institutions? Can we put the Marajah blame up for this as well? Well, I don't want to say it putting people that blame, but what I really want to hear more is a more precise statement which provides us with guidance on such an issue. There's no harm talking about the history of the spread of Islam in that region in one paragraph and a second paragraph detailing the atrocities that have taken place with statistics from the United Nations and a third paragraph that the Muslims are expected either to be unhappy with their heart at the very minimum if you're not going to be proactive or at least politically try and seek a means in which you're able to find the resolution to this conflict where hardly hearing any statements being made from our hierarchies. Now, I hear lots of statements about the moon. It's Aide today, it's Aide tomorrow, it's Aide yesterday, it's Aide next month, it's Aide every day. I hear these all the time, but I don't really hear much about Burma, Muslims in Malaysia, Muslims in the Philippines, Muslims in Kashmir, Kuwait, Parachinar. And if you do hear statements, you hear the same countries in the Middle East which I always mentioned. So I definitely believe there needs to be a much more pronounced statements about these atrocities. Thank you. Just a quick notice is that we are taking calls in at the moment and if you have a question for Sale Amal, be it on the topic or in general, or even if you'd like to call in support of our brothers and sisters in Burma, please call in the numbers provided which are 0203 5150 199 and or if you'd like to WhatsApp a comment or a question, please do it on 447 939 917 163. Say it now, in regards to big personalities and people that you'd expect or you'd feel to actually comment or get involved in the situation in Burma. For example, the Nobel Nobel Peace Prize winner, you know, Ong Sasachi Sasuchi, I believe, who is Burmese? So I mean, nothing from her. Well, yeah, you expected a lot more from her. I remember when I was watching the film about her life and how inspired I was by watching the film about how much she had campaigned for change in Burma and then to to see her make statements in her answers. She hasn't shunned interviews. She'll take the interview. But as if there's too much siding with those generals, you know, how do I keep the piece with the generals and can't talk too much out because these are the majority and, you know, it's a Buddhist majority state as well. The answers are sometimes quite, you know, I don't want to be too harsh, but sometimes the answers are just very political answers. You know, the UN is looking or we invited Kofi Annan to come and have a look at what's happening. You can't call it ethnic cleansing. Oh, there's fighting from the Muslim side as well. These aren't solving anything, you know, and even when they would ask her about, you know, many Muslims have gone to Bangladesh, you would you welcome them back and she'll say, well, they have come back. You know, that's not the way to talk about a future of a nation where you want people to live in peace with one another. So, you know, with her, I really expected her to come with, you know, with stronger statement. I can't deny that, you know, the lady has not shunned interviews. The lady has tried to provide her own worldview and her answers. But someone like her who's such an influential figure. I think what's her name? Malala Yusuzad, the girl from Pakistan. She said, well, if you're a Nobel Prize winner, I'm a Nobel Prize winner. You know, I expect a lot more from you on this issue. You know, so hopefully, hopefully with what's happening now, she'll come out and speak and defend the rights of the oppressed of the Rohingya. I mean, when we look at other famous, you know, personalities that should get involved or could get involved, if it comes to Buddhism, there's no one bigger than the Dalai Lama, no? I mean, even the Pope spoke about what's happening in Burma and he spoke and he even said, these are human beings, they are brothers and sisters, they may not be Christian, but they are human beings. So, I mean, do you think the Dalai Lama should be doing more? I remember sitting on the Dalai Lama a couple of years ago in Washington, D.C. I was there, may Allah bless the memory of our good friend and our teacher, Sheikh Fadil al-Sahlani in New York was there. Richard Gay was there. And the Dalai Lama, when asked about this question, said very clearly, in the same way, ISIS has ruined the image of Islam. Likewise, these Buddhist monks have ruined the image of Buddhism. We were all sitting there and he was very disappointed with what's happening. But you would hope that it's not just disappointment. You would hope there was more of a clearer statement and guidance towards the Buddhist monks to be able to tell them that these aren't the teachings of Buddha. This is not how you're going to achieve the highest state of spirituality and the most positive energy possible for the human being. And I really hope that a statement of intent comes from the Dalai Lama very soon as well, because let's forget that there is a war between rebels and generals and each one wants to control and so on. There are innocent children who are dying. There are women who are forced to flee. There are people who grow up seeing their fathers burned or beheaded, mass executions or the burnings of whole villages. If you have your problem with certain members of the elders of the community believing that they should be called Bangladeshis and should be kicked out, but these kids, what have they done wrong to you? So I hope the Dalai Lama who is always on a peace mission wherever he goes has always tried his hardest to bring peace between members of different faiths. Hopefully this is an area where we will hear a statement from the central team very soon. As you were talking about, you know that there's a lot of rebels and people fighting back. I mean, could you blame them for escalating the situation adding more fuel to the fire? Well, the rebels are going to offer some sort of reply because obviously they feel that those generals who don't view them as people worthy of being respected, obviously they're going to fight back. They're trying to defend themselves. They're going to point to the fact that they've been in that area of the Al-Aqan for over 200 years. Now, what do you do? Just sit back. You're going to stand up for yourself. But to put the blame on the rebels, rebels emerge after there's been atrocities from a certain ruling force. And I think it's unfair for people to pick up the actions of the rebels. And even if there are a few of the rebels in that area who may have acted in a way not befitting of the principles of the religion or the tribe, that should not cover the amount of atrocities that have been taken place towards these people for so many years. When you see on the internet the number of different reports about how these people could be the worst persecuted minority on earth. There are many minorities on this earth. But when these are seen as the worst of the most persecuted, then what a few rebels do in contrast to what some of these generals have done, they'll never come together. And the sadness of all sadness is that the general is backed by an ultra nationalist Buddhist monk who instead of guiding him away towards a world of peace encourages this to happen. This is what hurts very much. Wow. This was amazing what's actually going on and the fact that I speak for myself that I wasn't aware, I wasn't informed of this as much. And it's so atrocious. I mean, as Muslims, talking from an Islamic point of view, what is our duty? Because these are our brothers and sisters. I mean, do we try and find a peaceful solution by lobbying and writing to people of power? Or do we need to pick up arms and go defend our brothers and sisters? No, no, no, no. A person does not take these things into your own hands where a person over sign says I'm going to pick up arms and go and defend our brothers and sisters. We live in a world where there are methods of conflict resolution. There are ways in which conflicts can be sorted out. There are people who are experts in this field. This mentality that some people have that you know what just pick up a weapon, go out there, kill someone and someone's life. This is not the way forward for any of us. We need to try and ensure that there are certain peacekeeping missions, certain people who are ambassadors against wars, certain people who are fighting for democratic rights of minorities. You look at the different minorities in the history of humanity, people who've been the victims of racism, sexism. And likewise, here you've got a minority of people who just simply will not be accepted in that country. There is a conflict resolution method which has to be adopted. Now, as Muslims, like I said, if you're living in the UK, you go to someone from the House of Commons, someone from the House of Lords, local MP, or you go towards the media outlets, or you're able to go towards the newspaper or somewhere where you're able to comment on this issue, people will take notice. Now, if Muslims around the world are able to go towards the Burmese Embassy and they're able not to only just demonstrate, demonstration has its positives. There's no doubt. But there has to be a method in which a person is able to talk to those people of influence to organize a meeting to say that what is this happening? And this should be the case for every human being who's facing persecution, not just the members of your own religion. If I hear there are Christians in Iraq who are facing persecution in a certain area, I have to speak up for their rights. If I hear that there are non-Muslims in different parts of the world who are facing persecution, I have to speak up for their rights. This no longer becomes an issue of religion. The human being, there are five areas should always be protected, their property, their honor, their intellect, their life and their religion. Law should seek to protect one's property, one's honor and their family, one's intellect, one's language, religion. The moment these tenants are broken, someone has to speak out to ensure that that legal system comes back to its original philosophy. So when we as Muslims are looking at this issue, it is vital that we are able to politically and through media get involved in order that if those people's voices cannot be heard, ours will certainly be heard. If those people don't have the access to educational resources, we do have the access to educational resources. And no doubt on the day of judgment, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, God will ask about the person who witnessed oppression and remained silent. We know very well one of the major tenants and the roots of the religion of Islam is to enjoin that which is good and to forbid that which is evil, which is known in Arabic as Amor bil-ma'roof wa-nahi-anil-monkar. So with Amor bil-ma'roof wa-nahi-anil-monkar and joining the good and forbidding the evil, it's two of the roots of the religion of Islam. And the reason they are roots is never should we be in a community where we remain silent when we witness oppression? I remember Luqman telling his son in the Qur'an, Now when Luqman tells this to his young son, he's making clear to him, establish Salat, but don't just be of those who just pray. Enjoying the good and forbid the evil and be patient in relation to whatever comes towards you. If a Muslim out there is going to Friday prayers every week, fasting in the holy month of Ramadan, going to Hajj, they are doing three of the wonderful roots of the religion of Islam, but if they're not enjoining the good and forbidding the evil, society will collapse. The very bedrock of society is that there is a checksum balance system that exists. So for us it's fundamental that we have to enjoin Amor bil-ma'roof wa-nahi-anil-monkar and not to remain a silent person witnessing such atrocities. So do you believe or do you think that Muslims and non-Muslims can coexist in a country that is not run by a Muslim or a country that is run by Muslims in both? Of course we can. And of course we should. If I'm living in a country which is run by a non-Muslim majority, for example, religion, religion's Christianity rules that country, for example, we have so much in common with one another and we can't live alongside one another. Some may not believe in religious pluralism, but we can certainly agree on social pluralism. And I think social pluralism, the model that all of us can peacefully coexist irrespective of our theological differences. There have been great times in our history where Muslims and Christians live together for certain periods in wonderful peace. Take a leaf out of Medina, take a leaf out of Spain, take a leaf out of certain modern-day countries like Oman where you see that Muslims and non-Muslims are able to live with one another in peace without there being this barbaric arrogance or ignorance against one another. And the Qur'an mentions a wonderful ayah, chapter 49 verse 13, Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem. Now if that country is a majority non-Muslim country, a Muslim has to respect the laws of that country. I've seen some Muslims give the worst image of the religion of Islam living in this country from the sex gangs, from those who have stolen from the welfare checks and the DSS and so on, and the benefit schemes. Those have given the worst image because they've decided to live in a non-Muslim majority country and steal from the checks, hurt the woman and so on and so on. This is not the ethos of the religion of Islam. The Holy Prophet peace be upon his family comes to Medina or in Mecca. In Mecca he sees that the majority are non-Muslims. You say to those who disbelieve, I don't worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship, but to use your religion to his mind. Then he'd also say also he'd say, there is no compulsion in religion. But then in Medina also when the tables are turned and now there's a Muslim country and there are non-Muslims living in the country, the Holy Prophet peace be upon him, what do we say? Say, O people of the book, come to a joint word between us and you. That we take Allah as our Lord, we do not worship anyone besides Allah, we don't take law givers besides Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala. Now someone says, okay, what if a group of people don't take Allah as their Lord? Still pay a jizya in the country, tax which anyone pays and you live and you want to be protected and your rights are to be protected. And the Quran mentioned in Surah 9 verse 6, if one of the polytheists comes asking you for security then provide security for them. It's not just people of the book. In other words, the Quranic world views told us if you're a Muslim in a country that's non-Muslim, or you're a Muslim country that's majority Muslim, always recognize people out of two types, they're either your brothers in faith or your equals in humanity as Imam Ali bin Mitali peace be upon him would say. So when someone today comes and asks me Islam as a religion, can it peacefully coexist with other religions? We have examples and we have principles from the Quran which are clear about the way which Islam can and about the way how Muslim should. I mean say discussing as we were talking about Muslims being the victim of all this, has it ever been the other way around where there's an apartheid in the Muslim land? There is apartheid in the Muslim land right now. In Muslim lands right now you have Muslims who persecute minority Muslims. Look at for example the Awamiya district in Saudi Arabia. See how the Shi'a are being persecuted. Who speaks out for them? I see Muslims who are now going on the internet saying the Raja people in Myanmar look at the way that they're being oppressed. Tell them how about the Awamiya district in Saudi Arabia? Who's speaking out for the Shi'a who are being oppressed there? Who are being attacked there? Who are being imprisoned there? How many people have spoken out for some of the members of the Shi'a clergy for example or innocent Shi'a youth in Bahrain? Now remember we said sometimes education, sometimes health, sometimes employment. Some of these places you have people who can't get jobs or if they do get jobs let's not deny they will get a job but moving up the ladder in some of these companies is difficult. Some people tell me there are countries Middle East where you have to write if you're Sunni or your Shi'a you have to take a box. To the extent now Hajj and Umrah applications you have to write Sunni or Shi'a. Look at Pakistan there are places where there is ethnic cleansing of a Muslim community because of the fact that their eyes look a certain way or because the people believe that they come from a certain sectarian background. You look at places like Malaysia for example. The Shi'a of Malaysia can not openly practice the morning ceremonies for Imam Hussain alaihi salam. Apparently it's illegal to be Shi'a too. So you have some of the Iranians for example who are there who may hold a medallist and only then. So when the Muslims look at what's happening there don't try and hide the fact that that's apartheid stigmatization of some of the minorities and let's not let's forget the Shi'a okay I'm Shi'a and I mentioned this you got other schools in Islam I may not necessarily agree with their conclusions. We've got Ahmadis who've been persecuted as well no one speaks out. You've got certain people who are Muslim accused of apostasy because they spoke out against the government official so a blasphemy law is introduced say that person blaspheme killed them. In Egypt you had certain Christian coptics the Aqbaat of Mists who are oppressed and were oppressed for a certain period. So yes I will not deny that in our countries where there is a majority of Muslims there is apartheid system there is a system of imprisonment there is a system of unfairness and discrimination when it comes to employment and I believe that every Muslim has a duty to speak out not just when it's happening to their fellow Muslim brethren elsewhere but also when it's happening within as well. Say that's all we have time for I'm afraid. Thank you so much. Any last words that you'd like to mention because this is a very very sensitive topic. I think we pray you know we raise our hands really sincerely and pray for the Rohingya people and we also you know pray for all the people around the world who face persecution as minorities and inshallah all of us through word of mouth are able to lobby our local constituency congressmen senators so that someone is able to affect some sort of change and if the head of the you know if someone like the Dalai Lama or you know others are able to come together the Nobel Peace Prize winner if they're able to come together and speak out be it a Muslim or non-Muslim no one should ever face such persecution and such apartheid measures inshallah. Thank you thank you very much to all of you thank you for joining us this time and inshallah please join us on our next episode of London life.