  velvet  feet ఽ్వాంవ్వ్లె సోట్జె బరిక్టత్పందర,warts�ేెనివానమీ I know you are on the road, literally but not quite physically on the road, I know you are outside your normal area, so the lighting is a bit unfortunate for many of our viewers but we will manage it because we need the content from your head, not so much the beauty of your face. I also, I'm also obligated at this juncture to, in accordance with Genalistic Ethics, state that Fermi Olalai Medical Doctor is my friend. We got to be very close when we were in England together and about 15, 16 years ago when we moved back to Nigeria, we drifted apart, aside meeting on some few occasions, so that cleared I need to do a duty that must be done professionally. Adibi, you function in our diaspora, what is your general understanding of the level of this kind of abuse within our community, especially where you function in the UK? Thank you so much, I hope you can hear me first of all, I know the lighting is not very good. You can hear you want to know, you are quite audible. Excellent, very good. So, well, I mean, transsexual abuse is very, very common in our community, both here in Africa, in Nigeria and also in the diaspora. The issue is that it's very, very hidden. So now we've been fortunate enough, I would say, to have somebody who saw each other being sexually abused and she actually did something about it. I would say to you from our own experience at Africa, our charity, that a lot of transsexual abuse go unreported. I mean, people tend to hide it. They don't want to bring shame on their family. They don't want to, they don't want this to affect their marriage. They don't want their husband to leave them. They don't want their husband to go to prison. And so for many reasons, a lot of transsexual abuse is not reported and many children, as a result of that, they suffer in silence. They don't get justice, they're traumatised and, you know, there's nothing that they can do about it. So this, I mean, I know family as well and even when it was in the UK, it is a very unfortunate case. But to be honest with you, I'm really pleased that justice has been served in this instance. There be no saying women being would rubbish the fact that justice ought to prevail. And justice has seemingly found its right. So in no way she performed, no sensible woman being will rubbish the fact that it got what it deserves. But I haven't said that we need to look beyond this convict and do an introspection of a society that from your introduction seems to be, to function in delusion. We pretend as though it's not there, if I understood you well. Debbie, what are the telltale signs that... There are many signs that if a child is being abused, so you see a bubbly child, you see a child that's childlike and then at some point the child changes. They become quiet, they become silent. You know something has happened to them, they're not talking about what's happened to them or they see somebody in particular And any time they see that person, you see them, they're kind of like they're withdrawn. Or they ask them to go to somebody and they tell you they don't want to go to that person. They don't want to see that person, they don't want to be anywhere near that person. As a parent, you have to be very, very vigilant. And sometimes children do tell us, they tell us, they don't say it openly but they give us signs. You know, I don't like that uncle. I don't like going near that uncle. I don't like being sent to that uncle. I don't like that uncle calling me my wife. They tell us all these signs while we as parents sometimes we're not picking up on these signs. In this particular instance, it was the least... It was a particular person that a child might feel they don't want to belong to. Even as parents we need to take precautions where our children are concerned. And sometimes we're very, very negligent in relation to how we look after our children. For example, I was reading on Facebook this morning about a family where the husband works and the wife works. They live on very, very early. They have a six-year-old daughter. So they recruited a... What do you call it? Okada man to take the girl to school and bring the girl to school. Right? This is somebody that they just... It wasn't a family member. And the man would take the girl to school. But on the way to school, he would take her somewhere else. He would rape her and he had been doing that for months. For months until the school teacher noticed that there's something wrong with this girl. Because anytime she comes to school she's always crying. So she asked the mother to come to school. And the mother came to school. And the child actually now said to the school teacher that the Okada man has been raping her. He's been having a sexual contact with her every single morning when he's taking her to school. But there will have been signs. There will have been signs. The parents were not able to pick up on the signs. You have to know as a parent when there's a change in your child. And it's not just a girl child. It can also be the boy child. So sometimes we think boys are not abused. Boys too can't be sexually abused. And indeed are sexually abused. So parents have to be vigilant in terms of their boys and their girls to make sure that they can protect them from any form of inappropriate behaviour on the path of people or scrupulous characters. They shouldn't be anywhere near your child. So you have to be very careful who you allow to be near your child as a parent. We need to look closer into the peculiar nature of a family's case. And I really want to periscope into it because we have a situation where a non-practised cultural... How does one put it now? Where you have the less fortunate members of the larger family sending their words or children to those who are seemingly more fortunate not only for care as in material care but indeed for mentorship into a kind of upward mobility. And in that peculiar instance you have the icon, the person who ought to be the leading light of the family being the predator on this youngster. You want to speak to that? Yes indeed. I mean it's very, very unfortunate that there are so many so-called important people in our society who are actually predators, the predators, the perverts, the pedophiles. And a lot of the time of course these facts are not known to the wider public. So when children of vulnerable adults come near these people, they end up being abused or harmed in different ways. One of the benefits of family's case if I can say that is that for the first time somebody like him, very prominent in society, a medical doctor with his own medical practice has endured for life for such an offense. I think it will send a very, very strong message that these practices are no longer tolerated by the law. They will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law because there's nothing wrong in what his wife has done. There's no reason why his wife cannot say okay I want my leave to come and live with me. And there's no reason why that church could not have lived happily in a household. There's no reason for me to have done what he has done. There's no reason for me to have done what he has done. Historically, it's part of our cultural architecture. We have always known, when I was young, with a single parent, an indigenous single parent somewhere in the slum of Mushi and she had about three of us on one or two occasions she sent me to go live with relatively better members of the family who were junior to her and it was also an opportunity for one for one's lives to be broadened and better. So I see no reason why that cultural practice, a kind of social welfare architecture cannot continue because of perverted characters. There's no reason why not. So we need to continue to raise awareness. Men in particular need to start to talk to themselves. The method that you see a female doesn't mean that you must have sex with that female. Be they another female or a child. You know the most disturbing part of this for me. This is a very successful or up until it was converted. This was a very successful person who ordinarily mature ladies would be running after in the legos environment. So I'm thinking is this a mental health issue because why a child 15-year-old days. Pidophilia is not a mental health issue. Pidophilia is a criminal behavior. Pidophilia is a man who is attracted to children and he feels that he needs to have sex with children. It doesn't matter what the women in legos are running after him. It's just perversion, right? It's perversion and taking advantage of a very vulnerable child in his care and it's kind of like it's a force itself upon her and it's committed this criminal behavior which fortunately it was caught and it's not going to spend the rest of his life in prison. There are many, many men like him. There are many successful men in our society here even in the UK. There have been a number of MPs who have been jailed for similar things that he has done. So I don't know, men need to start to talk to themselves. How you comfort yourself. How you comfort yourself. You must not have sex with every female that you come across. You have to have some sense of discipline and control. There's a member that this child is living in your household doesn't give you the right to have sex with that child. I rate that child because sex with the child the law assumes that there can never be a child cannot give you some consent. Even if the child says to you yes a child by law cannot give you some consent. So it means that you have raped that child which means you have committed an illegal act in having sex with that child. So men need to talk to themselves in relation to how they comfort themselves around women both young and old. You do not have to have sex with every female that you see. You must have some self-control and not ruin people's lives by thinking you must force yourself on them. It's not proper, you cannot do it and the law needs to be much more stricter in terms of how this is addressed. Because I'm trying to think of all the other cases in Nigeria where children have been harmed in this way and this case has never got to court. I've heard of many cases, for example, where the man just gives the file and he says to me I'm going to marry her and he marries her but her life is finished, her life is ruined. So in this particular instance the woman quite rightly recognised what her husband did was totally wrong and she fought for justice for her niece and thankfully justice has been served in this case and she fought for justice for her niece and thankfully justice has been served in this case. I really don't want to go into the nitty-gritty of what the reports we read about how long it took the woman to report the case and the fact that as Femi's defense attorney is claimed in court that she ultimately decided to go report because she wanted to use it to get his properties. That's not of interest to me. What is of interest to me at this point what is of interest to me at this point is that what should have been done what ought to be done was done he had his day in court he defended himself with some of the best layers in the land and was found guilty and that takes me to celebrate it in the prosecutorial architecture of Lagos State because like you rightly said there are so many parts of Nigeria where this could have been swept under the carpet the child rights law of Lagos State was not only a test but became a living started and somebody today is in jail I want you to please use this opportunity to further let our men folk know not even the women who abuse abuse under aged children that the law is very very very strict about this. Excellent thank you and also so all the states in Nigeria should learn from what Lagos State has done in relation to prosecuting this case to its logical conclusion so the next time we see cases like this the police must know that a man any child under the age of 18 in Nigeria anybody under the age of 18 in Nigeria is a child and there are some ways we describe children in Nigeria who have been sexually abused we don't see what they are going for as abuse we see them as being sexually active you know you have some comments in Europe or that this child has gone around the block it means that almost everybody on the streets has had sex with that child that means that that child has been abused by many many people this child in that sense is a vulnerable child it doesn't matter if they are 16 or 17 as long as they are under 18 they are a child according to Nigerian law but that person must be protected and whoever as force themselves like I keep saying anybody under the age of 18 cannot give informed consent even if you oh she likes sex oh she enjoys it a child under the age of 18 cannot give informed consent which means that what you are doing is illegal we need to be running campaigns all over Nigeria you know there was a youth copper sent to a girls school having sex with the girls in the school you are committing a crime a teacher having sex with the students in the school you are committing a crime you know the pastor having sex with the children in the church or the Imam you are committing a crime we need to be running a lot of awareness campaign because it seems to me that a lot of people do not really understand the child sexual abuse in this sense that having sex with anyone at the age of 18 in Nigeria is sexual abuse and it is an illegal act and it can land you in prison not only in Nigeria it is not only in Nigeria in most respectable jurisdictions on the face of the earth if you have sex with somebody below the age of 18 below the age of 18 18 is about the average now it is a country the age of consent is very different so countries is 16 some countries is 15 but in Nigeria the child rights act of Nigeria it is 18 years old and I mean some states have not domesticated that element of the law we know that especially in the north because of child marriage but down south most states in the south have domesticated the child rights act and the age of consent if anybody who is having sex with anybody below the age of 18 can find themselves in prison it is important that people recognize that fact so we need to be making a lot of noise already because a lot of people do not seem to recognize what they are doing is illegal I think this this feminist case will be will sound a lot of wanting to a lot of people out there who think maybe assets or because they have got a loaded pocket or because their socialites family was quite a socialite of note in so many circles but unfortunately it has gotten itself into the school one can only wish him well but we need to also wrap up this segment by letting somebody like you who has built parties over I want to say decades now I think I have known you I have known you I have known you I have known you with safeguarding issues in a diaspora for well over 20 years now and a majesty a majesty, the queen God bless her soul even I wanted you so you must be doing it right and you know whilst doing the profile on your name I saw that the number of cities Manchester City and Co I wanted you on some of the boats to Derby we want to use this opportunity and from somebody like you to talk to our men folk especially and let them know that as a zebrant as our culture may allow a successful male character to function there are some limits that one should actually put on it for him himself definitely definitely I think no we should be doing a lot more work around this a lot of men yes of course you are successful in society and yes of course women want you but forcing yourself on a woman is great right if you were in the UK you could end up in prison having sex with anybody under the age of 18 in Nigeria is statutory rape if you were in the UK you could end up in prison so the loss of Nigeria quite lacks and that's why this particular case is so important people are getting away with things that they would necessarily or should necessarily let them in prison ok Debbie so people need to recognize Debbie please hold on a while please don't go you are still with us but we have another gentleman who is a medical doctor former president of the enemy or a branch of the enemy doctor Fermi his name ok former president of the Nigeria Medical Association this is Dr. Francis Aded Dayofadu Yile is now a special advisor to the governor or currently the special advisor to the governor of under state on health matters Dr.Fadu Yile you are welcome to plus politics Dr.Fadu Yile apart from the issue of statutory rape and the pedophilia there are video clips going about of this same person defiling a patient in one of his medical facilities how does the medical how does the medical authorities take that we have some difficulties about their personality and may also end up to be a medical practitioner and in behalf such illnesses or diseases they will really need a medical or clinical attention so that they can be taking care of secondly the medical profession has also put in place procedure of dealing with people who conducts or who does things against the apocratic code and that is the medical and dental council of Nigeria and in this case I must tell you that if truly the person has gone ahead to seek for medical care or therapy it may have been stopped in that unruly behavior unfortunately it continued until it was put and a law court has done the appropriate thing by giving justice against such infamous behavior Dr. Fadihile the medical authorities and I mean authorities such as the Nigeria Medical Association and other related bodies must have mechanisms to at least after prima facie conviction in instances like this protect his image from such deviance what are the regulations or what are the measures that the NMA has to protect the image of other minority innocent doctors whose reputation may be for perception's sake brought to some degree of conducts like this I must say that the medical profession has put in measures to guide against such behavior one of the measures is that every man who is to attend to a female must have a caferon and that caferon should naturally be a female who stays within in the consulting room it is a misconduct if a man or a gender examines the opposite gender without having a caferon with him or her secondly if we have people who have done such wrong it is necessary that those who have been to reports in the reports first to the medical and dental council of Nigeria they will try him and if it is on duty of misconduct or gross misconduct punishment of suspension striking of his name from medical register can be meted on him and if we have a criminal nature in that act is also referred to the court for adjudication of the criminal offence in this particular case once he has informed guilty in a criminal offence like this the medical and dental council will use that judgment to take care of such person from also screen all that patient and to protect the medical professional and the professional who has seen that person Dr. Francis Adedayofadu Yile a former president of the Nigeria Medical Association NMA and currently special advisor to the governor on those state on health matters we really really want to thank you we know you are literally on the road you are you know for giving us this time and enlightening our public thank you very much doc Debbie is Debbie still there? Debbie sad news story whichever direction one looks at it but one story that needs to be put out there for importantly and particularly for the deterrence of those who may have such criminal tendencies what do you say to that? well I mean you know that in the UK before before somebody is appointed into a specific jobs they have to carry out what we call a disclosure and bearing check DBS and this is our safeguarding measures if somebody has been if they are committed any form of crime and as an employer if I do a DBS check on them the crime that is committed will be noted on their records even if they have been given a portion it will be on their records not if they have been arrested not necessarily if they have gone through any form of legal process it will be on their records and so as an employer say for example as a the owner of a hospital I can check to make sure that the doctors I am recruiting the nurses I am recruiting have not committed crimes in the past that will put my patients in jeopardy and I think that the Nigerian Medical Association should have something very similar to that employers across Nigeria should start having a system in place where you can check somebody's identity check the criminal records before they are given a job especially in a sensitive position like being in medical justice I must say that amongst the penalties awarded against family apart from the life imprisonment in accordance with the Child Rights Act with the Child Rights Law of League of Steel amongst the penalties was that the judge pronounced that his name be put on Lagos sexual offenders list and I would want to believe that if such a list exists it is then incumbent on any employer of labour especially employer of labour in the area of medical services employer of labour in the area of children's education to be consulting such list amongst the paraphernalia to be checked before employing somebody to work with vulnerable vulnerable people in our society or what do you say to that the states should make a mandate the states should make a mandate for any employer for example teachers kindergarten teachers secondary school primary school teachers you know hospital staff even police officers before you recruit them just like we do in the UK you must undertake a DBS check if you don't and something happens as an employer and so I think we need to start to refine the process of employing people in such positions I like the angle you are going now you are speaking to vicarious liability of the employer who may have employed a deviant or a private without checking up on his or her record and ultimately when that person abuses a victim of victims as in the case that indeed the employer could be sued for the vicarious liability is that not what I have understood it to have stated that is absolutely for example even though Fermi is the proprietor of his hospital he must have a board of trustees which reason that even he himself should have been subjected to such a check such a like a DBS check every year so for example in majority Africa you must do a DBS check every single year because if you do on this year in the interim period something will have happened so every single year we do DBS checks and it should become an employee of the charity then we will start them is a sakeable offence so I think we need to start to make it mandatory for certain professions to ensure that the check the criminal records of the people that they employ to make sure that they have not committed crimes that can put people vulnerable people children at risk it is important that we start to put that in place I think you have just you may not know but you have just nodded me in the direction of doing a follow up on this topic especially speaking to somebody from the legacy of justice and legal luminaries who may have functional knowledge of self-guarding laws not only in Lagos indeed across Nigeria Debbie I really want to I don't want you start to talk about it but lastly we need to start talking a lot about it it is high time that Nigeria puts in place a very effective system of safeguarding children and vulnerable adults anybody in a hospital is a vulnerable adult if they know each other they are vulnerable adults they are in the care of the hospital there is no reason why the doctor in the hospital should be sexually abusing them sexually harassing them raping them there is nothing to do there is no reason to play this there is no reason to check it Debbie sorry you go I think you have just touched on a phrasology now that needs a little bit more of a situation of elaboration vulnerable adults a lot of us especially men in our society because of the power advantage that we have in some environment say as lecturers even when the victims are above the age of consent or at places of employment because we are the superior officers we may not know that some some seemingly ostensibly consensual this thing may indeed lead one to the direction of the gao am I right absolutely you are absolutely right if you are a lecturer in the university and you have all these young girls taking your course 60, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds okay they may no longer be minors they may no longer be under 18 but they are still vulnerable because of the power imbalance you and them so you know that's why universities too should do DPS checks the university so if a lecturer has committed some offence in a university they should not be able to transfer to another university without that university see it on their criminal record or whatever record that they were sent from this university for this offence so the new university and for that reason should not be recruiting them and put them in a situation where they can abuse other students so I mean the ramifications of what has happened today is very very broad for the whole of Nigeria in terms of safeguarding safeguarding children safeguarding adults it's very broad it's about time that Nigeria has a place in the effective system where people can not just act with impunity in relation to abusing people because you want to have sex with this woman you just force your stuff on them and there's no repercussion that should be ending now especially in relation to Fermi's case definitely we should not enter it Debbie I really have to thank you you have been more than an asset to this episode I really pray and hope that the Nigerian public especially are mindful and including myself will use this this opportunity and the very many what's of wisdom that you have given as an opportunity for sober reflection and we hope Nigeria will get better when justice prevails as it does seem to have prevailed in this instance thank you Debbie thank you sir thank you very much