 Well, good afternoon everybody. I'm very pleased to be here today with think tech Hawaii and we're going to be talking about Some global issues. We're very fortunate to have Nila for a row with us who's from Bilge University in Istanbul And she is an expert on international law international environmental law and international ocean law She and I have actually worked on some projects together relating to international law and she is a part of the International Union for the conservation of nature and she will be here for the big world Congress that we're going to be having starting September 1 Rumor has it that even the president of the United States will be coming Nila for is what they call the Western European Counselor and she's also chair of the Academy at the IUCN so I thought maybe Nila for you could help us understand Give us an idea of how IUCN works and what does that mean that you're a Western European counselor? Well, thank you. Sherry. It's really delightful to be here today And I think as the IUCN we are very excited about having the Congress in Hawaii The Congress happens every four years and as you may know, we're expecting a record 10,000 delegates to this Congress here The IUCN is one of the oldest and perhaps the largest Conservation organization in the world. It is devoted entirely to the conservation of nature and you have You have a secretariat of a thousand people and 16,000 people around the world experts in different areas of international Conservation issues international law science. You're also a member of the Commission environmental law So the work of the the IUCN is very important and and we think that the Congress is where the members can Promote conservation issues, so I don't know if you want me to get into the details of how it all works Well, first, I want you to explain to us what that means to be a Western European Counselor and how do you get that position? All right, and what are your duties? Okay Counselor so the IUCN is not your regular NGO. It also has a component that is what we call the Members Assembly and you have commissions and you also have the secretariat and the governance is composed of a President who is elected by the members You have a director general who is appointed and then you have the counselors and The counselors are elected from the different regions and I'm from the region of Western Europe And we are three counselors from the Western Europe So after the members assembly and they are the members of the IUCN which include government members and NGO members They are of course the highest Governing they're the final decision-maker, but we come before that Well, maybe just because we're here in Hawaii and we're so far away from Istanbul I think we must be at least halfway around the world from you Maybe you could explain why is Turkey considered to be part of Western Europe? I think that goes back to the Cold War days. That's why oh is that one? Yeah, that is that is and it's based on the UN classification So they because the IUCN dates from 1947. It's quite old actually So Turkey was put in the Western Europe based on the UN classification because Turkey's both in Europe and Asia It is where Eurasian country. We are literally cultural and land bridge Between Asia and Europe so I live in Istanbul and I tell people I'm an intercontinental commuter because I Live in Asia and I work in Europe. So absolutely. So what do you do as chair of the Academy? so, yeah, the the so the IUCN has different components and We represent the educational component and the Academy the Asian Academy of Environmental Law is composed of Association of almost 200 Universities including the University of Hawaii. So we're very pleased to have the University of Hawaii as a member And these are universities law schools in particular actually that teach do research in environmental law, and we are Global in every continent from Africa to Asia Oceana and basically we promote Research teaching and environmental law. Is that what the Academy does it does exactly? well, yeah, and then you were talking about the Environmental Law Commission, so maybe you could just give a brief explanation of what that is because of course your chair of the Environmental Law Commission as well. Well, no I'm chair of the ocean specialist. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, Antonio Benjamin is chair of the World Commission environmental law. So the IUCN the IUCN is composed of two components You have the secretariat. These are the permanent They do the everyday work and the headquarters in Switzerland and other parts of the world Then you have the commissions and one of the commissions is a commission environmental law and the commissions are composed of experts but volunteers And so we have right down the commission some 900 members actually from around the world That's what's important and as yourself. These are experts in environmental law who are recognized and also willing to give their time to promote Environmental law either through working with governments helping with publications And this so so at the World Congress The environmental law commission is going to have a panel. Is that correct? Actually, we have a legal journey Okay, so what it is because as I said, there's 10,000 delegates coming to the Congress there is Over a thousand events going on at this Congress So what they've done is they've divided it up into different thematic journeys And one of them is going to be the legal journey and the Commission environmental law is involved in several different panels there, but as the ocean specialist group, we will have a panel on the specific issue protection of biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction meaning high seas I Say and Well, what does that mean? Why should we be concerned about protection of biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction? What is the reason for having a panel like that and what kind of discussions do you expect the people will be talking about? so Many people don't realize that most of the ocean is actually in an area that is unprotected because it falls beyond this legal jurisdiction of the coastal state and What came about over the past, you know a couple of decades is that? marine biodiversity fish stocks habitat the coral reefs Are really being destroyed by many reasons from less pollution, but more human activities in particular Fishing activities and now we also know about deep seabed mining So a group of NGOs and I have to say IUCM was extremely active in this have been promoting Protection of this area of the high seas and particularly ideas to be able to create marine protected areas So after a decade of hard work Finally governments of the United Nations Agree to start negotiations Preparatory negotiations of a possible new international treaty that would actually protect Biodiversity in the high seas Primarily through the creation of high seas marine protected areas in fact unfortunately the Negotiations will be taking place at the same time as the IUCM Congress But it's very important. It's at the UN and nations. Hopefully Will eventually agree to adopt a treaty an international treaty that will protect the very vulnerable marine life that lives in the high seas So the IUCM has a special status at the United Nations, isn't that right? Special recognized status That's right. We're the only Organization that's involved in conservation that is has an observer status So we actually have a permanent representative at the IUCM Which is very important because we then are able to really promote the interests of conservation at the UN and And for example, I know I've been attending the first preparatory committee meeting they had on this high seas Protection of marine biodiversity and I've seen that the IUCM has had a very strong voice has been really a leader in this So it's very important that the that the ice and because the IUCM is a net It's a union of many many NGOs. So we represent Collectively that voice So that special status of being recognized by the United Nations, which gives the IUCM permanent observer status Isn't that the same kind of status that for instance the Vatican has and the palace the palace the Nation of Palestine has and they both also permanent observers. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes And so are they involved also in the treaty negotiations? well They are yes, they are but it's really going to be governments who will be Having the final say because yes, they're the ones that can actually adopt the Treaty, but yeah, so the the position of being an observer is very important. So you are a You are representing you are on the Turkish delegation though to the BBNJ the Biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction Negotiations and you've been attending the meetings as a member of the Turkish delegation so what what are your observations of how the meetings are going and The contribution that IUCM is making Yeah, so I was able to participate as an official member of a state delegation and I was It was the end of March and April that they had the first preparatory committee. I was very impressed The states definitely are committed to this And I have to say that many of us walked away with a very positive feeling Yeah, that that the states are taking the matter of protection of biodiversity in the high seas quite seriously and It's but there are Shall we say obstacles along the way states are very jealous of their sovereignty the high seas is an area where generally We're talking about sovereign states So it's not easy, but I think They're definitely making Good headway, so I'm optimistic, but there's still a ways to go. Yes, of course Okay, and You know so when you go as a member of a delegation to an international Negotiations like that. How many how many people are there from from Turkey? For instance, how many people are part of the negotiating team and as their backup research help So well, you know, this is a preparatory committee meeting for you know, I think it depends on the country So we won't necessarily go by Turkey So each country will have you know Its own delegation. These are preparatory means that they may not be as large But of course you have to be prepared. I tell you the EU has been Really a very important player. They've they've developed some important policy papers shaping the negotiations And the EU was very key and and setting the tone To promote this because there were certain countries and I won't name them Who were a bit hesitant, maybe I should have the United States for example, but even the United States has taken a much more Positive approach to this. Okay, so we're gonna take a break right now to hear from our sponsors And thank you so much dr. Oral for sharing your valuable time with us while you're in Honolulu. Thank you. Sherry very much It's a great pleasure Hi, I'm Ethan Allen host of likeable science on think tech Hawaii I hope you'll join me each Friday afternoon as we explore the amazing world of science We bring on interesting guests scientists from all walks of life from all walks of science To talk about the work they do why they do it and more or why it's interesting to you What the science really means to your life? It's impacts on you how it's shaping the world around you and why you should care about it I do hope to join me every Friday at 2 p.m. For likeable science Aloha, I'm Kauai Lucas host of Hawaii is my mainland here on think tech Hawaii every Friday afternoon at 3 p.m. Start your powhuna weekend off with the show where I talk to people about issues pertinent to Hawaii You can see my previous shows at my blog kauai lukas.com and also on think techs Hey, you stand the energy man here. I know you're bored this summer You're just sitting at home figure out what to do go to the beach Spend some time with think tech Hawaii spend the time thinking about how you can contribute to Hawaii and making it a better place to Live and start watching some of the programs on think tech including stand the energy man Well, you'll learn all about everything energy especially hydrogen and transportation So we'll see you every Friday at 12 o'clock noon stand energy man here on think tech Hawaii Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart Turner host of sustainable Hawaii. Thanks for watching think tech this summer We have a lot of terrific shows of great importance And I hope you'll watch my show too every Tuesday at noon as we address sustainability issues for Hawaii They're really pertinent as the World Conservation Congress approaches in September and the World Youth Congress That's focusing on sustainability next year as well. Have a great summer and tune in at noon every Tuesday Aloha and welcome back everybody We have the great honor and privilege of having dr. Nila for our all with us all the way from Istanbul Turkey today, and she is a professor at Bilge University there and She and I have had the opportunity to work together on many different International law and international ocean law projects, and I'm so pleased to have her with us today Nila for we do have a call so we're gonna take the call from a Our viewer Sherry very nice very nice show, and we really enjoy hearing about this But you know it brings to mind It brings to mind cop 21 which took place only a few months ago And I wonder if your guests could compare and contrast the events at cop 21 and tell us which one is more significant politically You know which one had as greater clout around the world for conservation and climate change How does this compare now against top 21? so the question relates to cop 21 and You know that negotiations just got over and how does the BB&J negotiations relate to cop 21? Which which is more important and which do you expect to produce more? for those of us who are very concerned about the conservation of nature given the climate change crisis and Overutilization of resources of the earth and the lack of sustainability that we are all fearing for the future Well, thank you for that question actually because I had the great Privilege of attending the cop 21 participating in it as a negotiator actually And I've been following the negotiations for climate change since Copenhagen 2009 So the question of comparing the BB&J issue to the climate change is a bit difficult Because the climate change negotiations So it was a very tough negotiation and and the reason is that climate change issues Impact everything in the sense that it was also the economic infrastructures of countries energy infrastructures of countries and it also of course has a huge impact on Nature as well as we know in oceans So if I were to compare it and it's hard because the BB&J is just starting But the climate change was extremely challenging very difficult And I think the Paris agreement is a product of the difficulties that states had and it's an important agreement the BB&J is a much more defined issue it will not have the same cross-cutting impact on our economies and the Infrastructure that the that the climate change agreement did but as it's extremely important maybe and Jay because we don't know people Realize how much we depend upon the oceans Life comes from the oceans and our oceans are dying The UN came up with its first global report on the oceans and the situation is dire So I think that in the sense that both are extremely climate change and oceans are very related And and the climate is impacting the oceans, but the oceans are in a very poor state So states have to take responsibility And I'm hoping that with the BB&J that they'll be willing to take on more than they were willing to do a little bit with the Paris agreement It is a modest agreement, but an important one the Paris agreement Whereas the BB&J is about just you know creating protected areas and I think we should be able to do that So I do appreciate that question. Well, that's really what the IUCN is interested in is trying to Create more protected areas and trying to protect Species that are at risk. So how does the IUCN go about doing that? Maybe just could explain what the red list is and the different kind of lists that the IUCN makes up I think that from what I've been able to observe that there's a lot of respect for the list that the IUCN Does develop and because there's a lot of respect. It really does help in improving a Protection for these different flora fauna animals absolutely the IUCN was a pioneer in many Issues related to conservation as I said, it's a it's a it's the oldest conservation Organization and one of the products you might call it has been the red list the famous red list which just celebrated It's 50th anniversary and the red list basically is by such a list that's created by Scientists and the IUCN is very much a science-based organization as well They have world-renowned scientists who give their time and their knowledge to identifying All living species that are endangered or threatened That's the red list and now they've also created this red list of ecosystems because we also know that you just simply can't focus on One particular species That everything is interrelated and the ecosystem is also important and we're also hurting our ecosystems So the IUCN through science-based Has created also for example the IUCN provides a secretary to Ramsar it's one of the oldest conservation agreements for the protection of wetlands and Birds and so the IUCM is very instrumental in actually drafting preparing that International Treaty back in 1972 the IUCN also plays a very important role in the world heritage Convention which identifies Places of universal value value which includes nature as well. It's just not Ancient sites made by humans, but they're also a marine marine areas That is there are marine areas heritage sites So the IUCN for decades now has been working actively in preparing international treaties But also working with governments helping them to you know, develop their capacity They'll have their scientific capacity their knowledge capacity Working with them to protect as well, you know, their natural ecosystems That we all benefit from actually so in protected areas is one of the key areas of work We have a commission specifically for that for protected areas commission the IUCN has in like the Congress a Huge Congress every ten years just on protected areas and they had one a year or two ago In Sydney and again six thousand, you know delegates from around the world came together just for Protected areas, you know, and this is one of the key mechanisms that the IUCN promotes and also contributes to Wow, well, I can see why they IUCN would have a big role to play at the BBNJ Negotiations because that sounds like this is exactly the kind of thing that IUCN Is looking to promote and to have more of You know, I think one of the things that is a great concern in the area in the BBNJ area Of course is fish with as well as in Exclusive economic zones of countries within their jurisdiction, you know and here in Hawaii because we have a wonderful different kinds of tuna and We very fortunate to have the big eye tuna yellow fin tuna and other kinds of tuna here but as we know they are at great risk and one of the problems is Not just our own fishing people like fish out of Honolulu Harbor but also the problem of illegal fishing and You and I worked on a case Representing IUCN before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea which related to international Illegal fishing and you were able to be the person Selected to argue make the oral argument at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea So how did that come about? Why did IUCN get to be a party in a case that involved different states? arguing about what and who had what rights and obligations to control illegal fishing Yeah, that Was a very important case and it was really wonderful that we got to work together as well on that so the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea is The Tribunal that was created under the Law of the Sea Convention and One of the Mechanisms and I won't go into the details though or that states can bring what are called advisory opinions That means they're not asking to resolve a dispute, but but they're seeking the advice of the court and in this case It was the South African Regional Fisheries Management Organization who lose billions of dollars from Illegal fishing in their easy sir exclusive economic zones, so they applied to the tribunal To find out what are our rights? You know, what can we do against these countries who are allowing their vessels to illegally fish in our waters and causing us to lose billions of dollars And so they brought this advisory opinion before the tribunal Now because the IUCN has this special relationship It is considered to be an intergovernmental organization, and I think because of the work that we had done previously The tribunal knew the IUCN respected I think the work that the IUCN does and invited us to submit a written Memorial and also to argue the case So we were the only organization that's involved in conservation that was allowed to do that actually And it was a great privilege I was one of the three members of the team and I think we made history we were the first all female team in an international case and I have to say that we were very happy with the outcome that had to do about what the responsibilities of the flag state is and the the tribunal gave an excellent opinion and Adopted I think some of the views of the IUCN definitely on that But there's still a lot that has to be done to stop IAU fishing I don't know if people realize that but the situation is Somalia Somalia and piracy Is linked very much to these fishermen You know small small fishermen who lost their livelihoods in Somalia because of illegal or pirate fishing So it is a huge problem that we have to do so this is one step And this was an important case and I think the tribunal did an excellent job. Well, of course in that case a Lot of those countries in Africa that brought the case are very small countries And they have they don't even have a Coast Guard or if they do they only have one or two ships So the people in the Pacific the Pacific Islanders they experience the same kind of inability to police their own waters So I thought that was the most important thing that we That the IUCN did in its brief which was to really urge that the flag state would actually have responsibilities and There could be recourse to go to the right. Yeah Well, what was very important and I think and in fact the next step and I think you know Did you say the Pacific Island states? Yeah The next step is not just an advisory opinion because the tribunal did say that These black states do have a duty to ensure that their vessels are complying with the laws of states And if they don't they're liable. Yes, that means they have to pay. Yes, and we're talking big Bucks actually. Yes, but most important to stop this illegal fishing. So I think that you know I think it's time for some perhaps litigation on it. Well in the United States. There was the case of lobster fisherman Poaching in the waters of South Africa and selling of lobsters in Manhattan and they were fined twenty eight million dollars. So that's the kind of thing you got to see Okay, well, I'm sorry to say that we're at the end of our show Milifer and I really appreciate your coming on and sharing your vast knowledge and experience and international ocean matters and also international environmental matters and We're really looking forward to the World Congress here in Hawaii and appreciate your giving us some insight into how the IUCN works And so thank you very much. I think Tech Hawaii and I will see you again soon. I hope