 I live in Ward seven and I used she her pronouns. I think I said all of them. Kim, Kim, when it gets to you, when it gets to you, could you hand it off to someone who's joining us virtually. I'm just going to ask the folks who are on video this evening, if you want to take part of the introduction, if you could please turn your camera on. If you don't want to, that's absolutely fine. If for some reason you can't get your camera to turn on, but something in the chat so we know that you want to introduce yourself, but we're not seeing. My name is Mila Grant, I'm City Council for the Central District, which is Ward two and three and I use she her. Hi everyone, my name is Lauren, I use she her pronouns and I am a mess this up. I'm in the new word to, and I am on the words two and three steering committee. I'm Roxanne news. Same as Lauren, I'm in the new word to and on the words two and three. Good evening everybody, my name is Jared color and I'm with the city attorney's office and I'm a work five resident. I am Kim Carson, director of the RAB. And street, let's read. And I'm going to turn it over to, well, no one looks like they're on just just just turn it over to just on the camera on the. Thanks Kim. Hi everyone, I'm Jess Hyman, I live in the new word to use she her pronouns. Sorry, I can't be there in person. Food looks delicious. I'm going to sit along to the screen to Colin. Hi everyone, I'm Colin Larson, he him, I live in Ward seven. Also, sorry, I couldn't be there person. I'm here because we are NPA is in a bit of flux right now and I want to figure out what what we can do about it. Oh, I'm not sorry, I don't know who's next I think Nancy's hand up is on virtual so they might want to introduce themselves. I'm Nancy Harkins, I couldn't find my chat so I raise that's why I raise my hand. And for some reason my camera is not working. I am in Ward six, and I live on Hoover street in the south and and I use she her pronouns. And do we have anybody else online. Like Samantha has her hand raised. Okay. Hi everybody. My name is Samantha, I live on chase street in the old East end. I'm so Ward one, and I use she her pronouns and sorry I'm not able to get my camera working and also yeah, similar to Nancy I don't have a chat up for some reason either. I'm not sure if it's just my browser not but yeah happy to be here. Kevin Anita and Nancy we're going to assume that you want to pass unless you lag us somehow otherwise. Hello. Hi everyone I'm post I use your pronouns I live in Ward two. I am the NPA engagement coordinator. Everybody I'm Scott Rogers, I'm a community development manager with CEDO I use him pronouns. I work with the NPA is the trustee committee voices unlike which access, and I live in the shadow of camel song. Ward. Brian pine CEDO director, he him and my ward is after 35 years being in Ward three without moving. I'm now working. That's a riddle. I was in Seattle so I'm steering Korean work one. I'm here because it's all words. I'm Carol Livingston, I use she her pronouns. I live in Ward one, and I'm in the strain committee with Sam Sam and with Jonathan. I've, I've been part of all words meetings for the past couple years and I'm sort of floored by what I'm seeing in the room today. So it's pretty amazing to have you all here. I think all words is a really rich opportunity for us to talk about what we do. I'd learned so much from other people it's like we all are in these silos and do these really cool things that are NPA meetings and then we don't hear about that and then so these things have allowed us to sort of hear what other people do and capitalize on that and I also think we're at a pretty crucial time is I think NPA is one of the few places that you don't have to wait two minutes to talk about what you want to say with your counselors, your commissioners, you can say what you want however long you want and they can talk back to you. We don't have any other place like that besides the NPA meetings and I think they're really crucial, crucial tool that we need to really capitalize on. Charlie G, Charlie, I live on the street, we have, and glad to see that in the return of the all words meetings after so many years, we didn't have like a token all words meeting about once a year and talk about the best practices for open meeting because it's not a best facility meeting so hopefully this is a signal of return to the all words meetings as used to have years ago. Brian Nick, EM pronouns, Ward 8 resident and I think I am maybe now or about to be sold steering committee member awarding so I'm here to learn what that's all about. John Ryan, nice John. It's fun, my name is Stena Kreenberg, I use the pronouns and I'm on the award conference. I was going to say I live on the street, Ward 3. Just for the folks and speak up a little bit just because I think it's hard for the folks that are here so I couldn't really hear you over here. I'm Christopher Aaron Belker, I'm award three resident and chairman of the Burlington Republican Party. I am Jake Schumann, I am a resident of Ward 1, not on our NK steering committee. But because of that level of impartiality, I will say that I really like our NPA. Mark Barlow, I'm the North District City Councilor that's Ward 4 and 7. Sarah Carpenter, she heard I'm the Ward 4 city council. I'm Rachel Jolley, she heard I lead up the community justice center occasionally asked to facilitate meetings and I thought I was in Ward 3 but now Brian Dancers making me think I'm now in Ward 2. I think we had somebody joined, Jason, there you are. Hi there. Sorry I'm late. I thought it was con toys and I've been upstairs for 15 minutes. I think the screen really doesn't seem like it's ever here. Stick around and maybe it'll start making sense. When it started being like this giant rock being driven down the street in LA, I was like, no. Simpleism of the rock. They got it and it was going. I'm just going to write along the Ward 5 and pace during committee and I live on Caroline. Great. Thank you. Welcome everyone. And I'm really like which we sat here just because of the hybrid nature we didn't want to have her back to the camera but now I'm realizing that everybody can see her. Hopefully everybody can hear but if folks are along this side of the table find it problematic we'll figure out a different way to sit. I wanted to start with some guidelines just to see you all have the guidelines in your packet. I'm not sure about those online if there's a way to. Maybe we share the screen and do this as a starting place. So we just had generally I found that new guidelines slash norms slash expectations slash ground rules. We don't have something to react to, but we don't see these seven stones so we are offering you these as ones to start us out with help kind of give us some baseline of expectations like agreement that we're using with each other. But we're also open to hearing either additions or questions about the ones that we have clarifications that needed. We're going to take them out. Just to make sure that we're all on the same page in terms of elaboration of needed. So, in an effort to create a sense of community care to be able to strive to listen to understand remain curious, speak from experience using I statements and avoiding generalizations. Step up step back which is another way of saying share the air just be mindful of your air time how much you're speaking or if you're somebody who tends to not speak very much maybe speak a little bit try and make an effort to speak avoid interrupting practice kindness respecting differences and identities pronouns etc. offer solutions which framing in the positive as a way to respectfully disagree with something shared so if you have a point of disagreement maybe also bringing it in the way that you would like to see some things, you know, framed or would like to see it written or proposed. So those are our baselines do anybody have any additions that they want to add or questions about what you see. All right, and we'll see like if anybody doesn't feel like they are able to agree with these please let that be known, and otherwise we'll assume that we're in agreement and we'll move forward with these other expectations. Um, when I are kind of big on relationship, so we're going to ask you to participate in a relationship builder with us, you don't have to move around or anything. So, the one we want to use tonight is three words that those who know you would use to describe you. Okay, so I'll start. And counselor I'll pass this time. So I, my, I think the words that I would use are kindness. I'm pretty nice. Others would say I'm funny, which is usually a good thing. I'm incredibly dedicated to the work today. I'll just do it like if you so choose just do a reminder of your name to it's not all about like without my glasses I can't see some of your name tags across the way. So I'm Rachel, and I would say direct is when we're organized, and I need free. Okay, I'm patient. Cooperative. Probably in some circumstances I talked to much and some I don't cover. Mark. This is as professional. I would say that I guess I would say helpful, earnest, and at times, though not just Christopher helper I principle relentless and arrogant. I've heard that from my mother in law before. Probably get seriously for three passionate driven and I wouldn't be a true job and I have a list of places. read charming and looking and then they them. I'm committed and patient and attentive. I'm a good friend of mine, Ryan, once a reserved door is funny. So again, I'm Charlie Ginoni from Barry Vermont came to Burlington in 1980s to attend again, it was actually kind of a trouble maker there is a political activist for several years. I'm a homeowner, political activist, and a community organizer here in Vermont. Thank you. I'm Jason. Adjectives. Welcoming. I love to cook for people. I'm kind and a certain Carol. Say kind. Jonathan, I just want to say that I've never killed as the nicest. I got them. I'm all nerdy and forget. I'm passionate, patient and late. I start empathetic, hardworking and sometimes tenacious. I have some similar ones. She heard. Hi, hardworking and caring. Anyone joining us virtually want to weigh in on three words those you know would use to describe you. Samantha here I don't know if anybody else is trying to talk or not. But I would say one I agree with Jonathan that Carol is one of the nicest one of the nicest people. Yeah, Jonathan's also tall and tall and nerdy so that that checks out too. I would say that people describe me as supportive, helpful and funny. Thank you for confirming Carol and John. Nancy you're next. Hi, Nancy. I'm caring, responsible and proactive. And Jess. Let's see. I think considerate, pragmatic and a little impatient. Thank you. Last call for anyone on the screen. Okay, thank you so much. Kim you're up. Hi, I'm Erin. Sassy. And I recently was told I was a comedian. Jared again. I think three of them are now compassionate driven and busy. Roxanne. optimistic, caring and practical. I'm Lauren, she her rational. Loyal and empathetic. Mila she her. I would say when I talk about things, people would agree that I'm direct. And then some people would think I'm difficult. And other people think I'm truthful. Thank you. I'm going to hand it off to Brian. So the. Yeah. Actually, I was wondering, do you want to take it off at teams? And I didn't know if that was on purpose. Yeah, I don't know. So we hadn't had an item on here called the approved the agenda. So this was going to be, we weren't following Robert's rules or having formalities, but if we just want to go over the agenda and see if anybody has any additions or changes. Okay, great. Let's do that. So you each of you who are in the room have an agenda before you hopefully, and I'm not sure about folks online. Yeah, they should be able to access it through civic clerk. If you filter in for the awards. And then you would click on meeting that said number 15th and then there's the agenda agenda packet and their resolution linked. Great. So hopefully those who are in the room and who are online have had a chance to look over the agenda. Are there any additions or changes that anybody wants to offer? Yeah. One small clarification on the last page, it says resolution presented by Jason van Brij. I think I'm safe and saying that it's actually presented by the entire word five steering committee because we work very collaboratively with this together. It's not accurate to prepare just as my subject. I just like that. There's a good idea. And discussion item. I suppose. Well, so that I'm there as long as I'm having a baby. I've not had a chance to speak about that. But of course about it. In all the words what I'm saying in all the words mayoral they don't have the mayoral in a crazy group. You know, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not sure what to say. I think that's a good discussion. I would get a little close to that. I feel like it's starting to work. It's taking them. Remaining 10 minutes. Yeah. It seems to fit well as a right. Like in the connected community outreach. So we put at the end of that was closer than to the spare time for other towers. And then in terms of Jason's addition, I think even though he said that was on the second page, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. Okay. Yes. Oh, got you. Thank you. Okay. Sorry. That's okay. I did in fact. I don't want to send it, but it's not just from. Yeah, great. Any other changes or additions? All right. So we're not going to follow Robert's rules. But if you have it by your silence of no other changes or clarifications, I'm taking that into unanimous approval of this agenda. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on. So we are in the city council resolution section. And so that starts out with an update for, from our intro of the resolution. Right. I think everyone has it. Hopefully you've had a chance to see the resolution. The origin of the resolution is. I think that's a good point. I will just, I think that's a good point. Councilor. Travis. Word five. Grafter the resolution. We passed the council. What it was. When it was debated or. And it was a unanimous approval. There was some discussion around. What would be sort of the. I mean, I think the next steps are spelled out in the resolution, the intent. Here, what I think of this is really to really reestablish some basic code of conduct within the NPAs as being autonomous entities, but yet having at least some basic baseline understanding about codes of conduct within NPAs. Anyone from the council who, I don't know, was it sponsored by anyone other than Ben? I forget. We all have councillors. Oh, all councillors. In the whole council, there you go. So you've got a few councillors here that you could talk more about with any of their thoughts behind it. But I want to at least put it out. The resolution is, you know, certainly part of why we convene is not the only reason. It seemed like a good time, but it was opportunity for focus and discussion that came out of this process. So, are there questions or reactions or comments that people wanted to offer? The provision in here about both in meeting law. I'm wondering about that from the perspective of at least in our NPA to get together about a week before the NPA meeting for a steering committee meeting to plan for the meeting. And, you know, it's not like it's secret, but it's not really a public meeting either. It's just a work session to get back together. And I'm wondering how that intersects with the open meeting profession. Fortunately, we have someone who knows a little bit about this, Jared. So planning a meeting, setting an agenda, talking to decide what is going to be on your agenda is not something that has to be done in an open session. And it's not a violation of the open meeting law to have those conversations. You can even share like materials amongst one another that you want people to come prepared to discuss or to consider. But you shouldn't be sitting there explaining these things to each other and then engaging in substantive back and forth about the potential item. But the general setting of your agenda and trying to, like you said, gather yourselves to figure out, okay, we're now going to post this agenda. And this is what we intend to bring up at the meeting in a week from now is permissible. So, because we all always send the agenda for our for the steering committee meetings to Scott. Okay. Is that required. To post it to post. Yeah. We thought we had to do that as part of the public. Yeah. So you're setting an agenda to talk about an agenda like that. I don't think it's necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So with respect to the opening meeting, which is organization. So the NPAs are part of the in Burlington, they were born out of resolution from the city council. And so in that nature of the formation of them, and the fact that you guys are taking public business that will then, you know, the, I think the original intention of the NPAs was to provide feedback to our other political entities, whether that's the city council or the mayor. And for that reason, it's always been postured that all the NPAs are subject to me and law posture. It seems to me that the best way to describe the NPA resolution, seems to be that the patients can divide it on a corporate association. But a corporate association. Yeah. Association and private individuals who have come together for a common purpose, this case to indicate on behalf of city governmental issues that are concerned to our city. I think that the city has always taken the position that we provide some form of funding we have particular staff support. And that it was born, but for the resolution like in every board that that that is the way that it's part of an arm of the city itself of course like as Brian has discussed and I think there is been also. I don't want to speak I'm not in tune with the entire history of all of the NPAs, but I think my understanding and is that they also have some autonomy they are born out of the words that specific locations in which the city is divided based on our census data. And district thing election district thing. And so, like that autonomy as well because each board has its own unique neighborhood. Feel and thread and so it's important that they feel like their word is their own in the way that we have provided support in which we're trying to do here tonight is like. We don't want it to be doesn't need to be blanket that every word NPA acts and operates in the same manner but there are certain principles that will be loving one of them other things that are important and necessary as entities of city government that we abide by and follow. I think there are some folks who take position that the NPAs are similar to overseas such as the Howard Center which is a separate entity that is incorporated that receives funding from the city that's not actually part of the city. And so for the NPAs to be subject to the open meeting law would necessarily staff that the NPA is considered to be part of city government and I'm not sure that the record of the resolution really supports that. I think that there's some other books to have other things. Maybe the case I think it's important to acknowledge that it's in the city charter that the NPAs were created so there is actual city action that incorporates them as part of the charter. So I don't think it's accurate to say they're like the Howard Center because the city is not an entity created the Howard Center. They also received staff support. Did you have a question. Actually unfortunately so I'm going to try to compress this there's some there's some kind of specific about this. Are we going to go through this line by line or what is the time for discussion specific. We didn't really allow time to go through it line by line but if you if you want it, if you have a line in mind it really helps that you pull out the line that you want to bring forward, but I didn't imagine one for the line by line. Okay that's perfect. My feeling is in this, you know, this reflects something about what Chris is talking about like something about the word one resolution that's in the packet that we won't discuss in its specificity. But I think that there's, I think that there's, I think the relationship between the NPAs in the city is is just a little fuzzy. And it's not well articulated anywhere. You know, Jerry, you, you're a lawyer, you can do this right and you could say this is in this is this is the city's interpretation of what it is. I don't think that I don't think that the boards all share a common view of what that relationship is. And so I'm wondering whether we could take as an action to put together. You know, maybe it's one representative from each ward, a couple of representatives from the city, and actually write down to find the relationship. What, what, what the city can expect from the NPA is what the NPA is going to expect from the city, because then it'll be clear, then we'll be able to say, Oh, oh yeah, that's right. That's what we're supposed to do. Right now it feels like, and honestly, I was taken, I was among several were taken by surprise by this resolution. And, and, you know, I felt that it upset me, I'm over the upset, but, but it shouldn't have to happen. You know, we should, if I didn't, if I didn't, if I, if I woke up on a Tuesday morning and saw what was passed. Oh, yeah, I understand why the city council could do that because this is our relationship with the city council. As it was, you know, Monday, I felt like, What are you doing? Why are they doing this? So it would really help. I would help me a lot. I think it would help others, if we can develop a private relationship. That's kind of a broad question. My specific question has to do with the conflict of interest statement. And I completely understand the conflict of interest statement for steering committee members. And, and more one has one in our bylaws. I don't understand the conflict of interest statement for every single member of an NPA. Because every resident of the city has to, has to declare who wants to participate or vote that NPA has to declare the potential conflict. I don't think that's, that's against the First Amendment. That's undemocratic. I don't get it. People come to meetings, people go into voting booths with prejudices, and public to the interest, and they vote. And that's America. That's democracy. I don't really understand asking, asking every member of the city NPA to declare a conflict of interest in that conversation. So it would help me if somebody can explain that. I see a couple of hands of, I do want to, I really appreciate the way you're framing that. We didn't come prepared tonight to make decisions tonight or to, you know, have any action steps by this, but I really appreciate the way you phrased it in terms of generating an action step. We do have no takers. And it sounds like what I heard from that is the action you're hoping for is to define the relationship between the NPAs and the city perhaps through or something like an MOU, but to allow time for discussion for that. And I think that's a great meaning or figuring out a way to bring that action step forward, and also to further discuss the conflict of interest clause. I just wanted to acknowledge that Charlie had a hand up at the time. This is in direct response to, I'm sorry. What Jonathan said, just briefly, what, what I, what kind of came to mind as you were talking is that it's the memo, the, the resolution comes across to me and a little bit muddled as to whether it's directed at the steering committees for at the NPA, and it's hard to meeting everybody who is an award at the site to show up, because the purpose it seems is to provide a floor for kind of the governance of the NPAs, but it seems a little odd to apply that to all residents of award. So we're clarifying and separating out what here is about the standards that are expected of the steering committee as the guiding body versus what are the operating principles of the NPA meeting everybody who shows up with votes would be really useful. Yeah, I just, I was also curious about the conflict of interest fees, especially given that the purpose of this resolution, as I understand it, is to move us towards an NPA environment, a more diverse group of people feels more safe over time. Does that mean that people of color are not allowed to vote on this because hopefully it affirms a safer space for people who are not white, like does that mean I'm just not sure how to actually give us more freedom, and instead maybe it makes less space for people to also be people and serve on steering committee and So with both these suggestions, I hear it like a lot of generation of content for this further next action step around clarifying where this resolution sits as it in terms of who's the audience and this further clarification about the relationship between NPAs in the city, as well as specific parts of the resolution in terms of meeting the original intent. Yeah, so we're not on line 35. I mean, there's a time constraint that screening committees have to come up with language for their, for their bylaws, right, so that's the only concern I would have about putting this off, or how, you know, I hope by the end of this meeting we have some action steps around establishing a group of people that's coming this decision. And, you know, Jason's Ward five steering committee came up with some helpful language to address these incorporated in our bylaws. But otherwise we're sort of each our own kind of figure this out by January. And if I might just trust that I mean I think just for everyone's awareness when the city council put this together, and then subsequently passed it, Brian myself and Kim did sit down and begin to speak about as staff like how do we best support the NPA is in meeting this. I think the date there is a qualifier as January 31 being a shooting target to try to get to but after each date it says as or as soon as practical. So if we get to the 31st of January and it still seems like there's work to be done there needs to be movement it's not like that's a hard deadline, but it was, I think that the city council and I can't speak for the body that but what I read in the intent of this is that they wanted to put a date there so that there's something to move towards so that we didn't just leave it open ended forever. But there is that opportunity to to have space beyond the 31st. And I think from the staff's point of view, it's nice that we're all here tonight because we want to hear from all of you like how do you envision us each supporting the separate NPA is in in hopefully getting to meet the intent of the resolution. And two quick questions. This already passed. This is already with all these. Okay. Good. Because January 31 that leaves one meeting to make all these by law changes, because it's Thanksgiving next weekend Christmas and holidays, etc. It just seems like a tight timeline and this being my first meeting. I'm not meeting that deadline. I mean, I guess I get to frame it up. Yeah, like, it does sound like Jared said that that is an aspirational deadline. Yeah, it's just, I'm sorry, I didn't realize it would be passed. Yeah, still quite a few questions to be asked. And based on what we're hearing to one proposal is, as you see at the end of this section on the agenda, a brainstorming plan to fulfill resolution. And after that language is saying maybe we're going to break out into groups to talk about how you would get one step closer to framing the action, the next action step of what you think needs to happen. So you can help us end the meeting tonight with as clear as it can be around that action step that be for action steps. Yes, thank you. Colin. I know there's a question about what aspects of the code of conduct would apply to steering committee members versus. Participants, and I was curious for, you know, city counselors or staff at. Public meetings or city official city bodies, other official city bodies. What happens when there's a public comment that. Like broaches this level of. You know, disrespect or something like that what what usually occurs. Jared, you're present for a lot of council meetings and public forum people say what they, they say their piece. Yeah, so a city council meeting is a limited public forum so that the government opens up this space for public comment and discussion. And there can be limitations on that speech. I don't want to, I'm not prepared to go into a full like first amendment run down on all of this, but there are also limitations on what what speech can and cannot be controlled as a result of the opening of the public comment. And usually it has to be content neutral viewpoint, neutral time and manner, etc. So, but with regard to that, I think there's different approaches to how something, if something gets to the line of, okay, if there is, you know, speech that is unprotected speech or inciting violence or those things. I mean, it all depends on situational as to what comment may or may not be be made. So it's hard to give like an exact definition of what may or may not occur depending on the situation but I think trying to in the NPA is if there's uncomfortable conversations versus things that are unlawful or two very different things. And just deciding as community members, how you're best going to support each other to be able to have those conversations that may not always be shared viewpoints and people should feel free to come in and speak about things and bring their concerns but doing so in a manner that like is productive and as we're exercising here tonight, hopefully supporting each other to move through that. I think we have a little less than 10 minutes left. I just want to follow up question. You have mentioned a speech is not being protected earlier. Can you please provide the group what the legal definition of a speech is according to you. I didn't come, I guess that I didn't come prepared to give a full definition or go into a first amendment lecture and that's not what I intended to do tonight but I'm just going to give a couple of examples of what you would define as. Again, I don't, I would want to make sure that if I'm going to provide guidance to the entire NPA is that I do make sure I have all my Ts cross and eyes dotted so I don't, I just, I was just trying to say that there are a number of from a legal perspective there's a wide spectrum of what is and isn't protected speech and how you move through that can sometimes be a situational case by case scenario. So it makes it challenging. But again, that's what we want to hear from you all is like what can we provide you with support to be able to ensure that you are having these conversations and that there is the ability to speak but if things are not protected and shouldn't be allowed that those aren't allowed but everything else that is protected speech is allowed etc so I'm hearing from you all that I think like more guidance around that would be beneficial. And our office can work to to try to provide that make the rounds to the first message. Yeah, we're making note of that as another action step. Oh, actually funny. We had Leo Thompson. Yeah, it's from the Attorney General's Civil Rights Division. Yeah, come to our NPA and discuss that. So I'm just stuffing it out. Right. It's on PCTV on YouTube. Julio would absolutely come back. You're doing a question. It seems like you were trying to get pointedly at the audio recording so I'm just curious like, can I do a quick survey like who in this room have heard like this hearing committee recording of like this potentially eight speech that happened at the four or seven and past year committee. And so Jared, can I like ask really pointedly like back. Was that hate speech. Your opinion. I, again, I didn't come prepared to get into that and I'm not going to to go there this evening with that. Definitely, we just want to acknowledge where we are, which is, we hadn't allowed enough time for this section knowing that there would be as much like in hindsight knowing resolution probably needed more time than we allowed. I just wanted to get to a decision making point in terms of the remainder of these things on this section, which is update on the bylaws work from Jared, Kim talking about the RAB draft grievance process. Obviously, we are in the question speak out time as well. And then the sharing award fives draft or maybe not draft, but the resolution that Jason said on behalf of what I want to share. These are the things that we're also planning to kind of make sure fit in this time. Are people wanting to give this time to talking this out. And then the resolution knowing that we are going to be having subsequent meetings and we already have a couple of action steps that can be further defined by you in the breakout groups, or do we want to hear these other three items that were generated for this time. There will be group. Any more comments tonight about the resolution Jason couple people do. Maybe we want to air on the side of that your time and then table some of these others does that feel. Okay. All right, so it's Chris. Yeah, yeah, and Jason. I don't think that. I think there's a number of folks that support the intent behind the resolution issues, number of folks have suggested is the process behind it. It felt like that the council maybe didn't do their homework on some of these things because and our bylaws was to we, we've already done most of the things and it kind of gives up this was an issue. It was more of an issue for the new north end and probably should have been addressed at that level and it somehow broke later up to be this whole big city one thing. And then it comes down to it's like, but we're already doing things like well, there's clearly disconnect into job this point I think there are a number of folks that, you know, did I do any of this was coming. I mean, I found out that I before the sitting house, I had no idea it was coming up. So the process was less than ideal. So, is in terms of suggestions for, I think you go to Jonathan said about having this. Okay, thank you. I very much agree. I mean, I've only been on the steering committee for months. But my pretty clear sense is that the relationship between the NPAs and the city is intended to be and generally is a collaborative relationship one of working together to, you know, improve stuff. And I think that's one of the most general terms and and the the NPAs work to the extent that that collaboration is a two way street. And yeah, this is this is clearly very well intended and pointed at some things that was a real issue needed to be addressed. I just wonder if a sort of modified replacement resolution might be in order where the NPAs and in particular the folks who've been on the NPAs for a while and really have a deep sense of how they were best can be involved in shaping, you know, this this framework of expectations because some of it feels well intentioned but pretty off base and I'm not sure an MOU will necessarily fix that because this was intended to be a foundational document and we need the right foundational document. And then just one other quick thing there's been a couple of mentions of eight speech I think that's a pretty unhelpful framing. It's obviously not something we want in any of the NPAs or in, you know, dialogue in the city in general, but when we get to we have time for what we put together here you'll see that it doesn't mention each and instead what it does it points towards and and separate expectation of the, the kinds of the ways that we expect people to treat each other and doesn't say, you know, if there is extra consequence will be why I mean what hammer do we have and we want to use it anyway, but rather to say we aspire to treat each other well and here's what this might look like. Thank you so I hear a proposal potentially again affirming that the process is part of the issue in terms of not being consistent with the collaborative nature of the relationship that is in historical so potentially a modified replacement resolution. Other comments in terms of the q amp a part around resolution. Another idea is that we hear a bit about the bylaws the ID grievance process and the word five resolution to inform whatever more comments questions this airtime and not break out, you know, not going to break up and just share the air as we are doing. Yeah, for you mate. I never even thought about how a follow up resolution before I'm not opposed but I think my question is, are we able to do that or because it's still the same term is the rules. I'm not a parliamentarian. I'm still learning a lot of this stuff, but can someone who put the resolution forward. And then there would have to be a vote on the council to do that. That's something I have not, I have not been concerned to resort out to do some research around pulling a resolution that the deadline which takes the next meeting person to go to the affirmative if it passed, can ask for reconsideration at the next meeting, but that time has already passed, however, because it was asking is, could there be a responding resolution that actually sort of supersedes or addresses this. And I think if it's a new resolution, yes, it doesn't matter that it's the same. Yeah, exactly. What, I mean, that's what I've heard. Yeah. I think that's a follow up. It seems like we're going to need a working group for that. We're kind of in the with an eye towards education as we're knowing that like some kind of action items, redrafting proposal, you know, alternative proposals going forward. Maybe it would make sense to hear from Jared and Kim and Jason around what you were going to be sharing tonight anyway, Jared, is that are you okay to be called on next. No, I think that I pretty much touched upon it, but I think when we sat down and as you guys have also brought up the NPAs across the city do have bylaws and what's included it isn't included in the bylaws is it varies. I mean, most of them have similar elements, but there are some individual pieces to each bylaw. And I think that that's probably because it, again, as I kind of spoke to earlier, each word or district, having its own fabric and its neighborhood and it's particular NPA that feels like it needs to address its bylaws or not. And so I didn't feel and I'm speaking with Kim and Brian that it was appropriate for us to just hand down. Well, here NPAs, these are the things that you need to have in your bylaws specifically I think the city council has laid out principles that they want to see included. And we wanted to hear from you all like, how do we best support you in making sure that the bylaws have these certain principles that are laid out in this resolution. And also, if, as we've heard from some NPAs, they feel they already interest this and it's included that we just review that and make sure okay and matches up and and that and maybe what's there is more than sufficient and that's wonderful. So really just that we sat down we had spent a little bit of time together talking about how do we best support you all we really knew that we needed to have this chance to hear from you before we took larger steps forward on that. That makes sense. Any questions or comments for Jared about yeah. I understand that. I think the other word might be long winded from and I apologize. I never say never say my three words and it's saying two cents. It has to do with it has to do with non discrimination statements. Very specifically, and the word five document has one, the, our bylaws work one bylaws have one, the city has one, and it strikes me that if we really if if the relationship is, as I think the city thinks of as the relationship between the NPAs and the city, then the NPA is not discrimination statement should look just like the city is not discrimination statement, and it should be very easy for everybody to find it on the web page. So, so if I can make make a suggestion that that at least at least I would propose to the word one that they would that we should change our non discrimination to be the city's not discrimination policy, but I need to be able to tell them where to find it. I mean, I found it but it wasn't easy. On the city's website. This should be easy. And, and, and so when the city changes their non discrimination policy, we should all be changing them and it should be very easy for that. So that's just a suggestion. Thank you, John. So, Kim, are you able to talk on what you are going to in terms of the draft grievance process. Sure. It kind of falls in line with what we're discussing about it's really talking about doing some research about what we see as far as these processes I think it's some of the issue with it is, once you've decided a structure and I can create more of what the process would be, it's also having an independent space to start the process. What was found or what we identified in this process is there's no place for a person to go as a citizen or a member of a steering committee or otherwise. Like you were treated disparagingly as the way or someone violated your rights to get some kind of guidance or what's next so basically what this would be is a process wants to be clarified a few other things of where a person would go to start a process to get that done. And so that's in a nutshell, as with everything else. What you're doing is going to inform what I'm doing. So as we have more clarity and more understanding about who is what, what role people play, it will inform how we go about setting up a process for someone to come and read and what that looks like. They're kind of intertwined. Does that make sense? And we also need to understand what role each NPA and what your steering roles are to be able to integrate that into each. So it's not something that can come first, it's like a chicken out of a, we have to have some information for you before we create something and we're not going to create something without information for people. But that probably sounds convoluted. The bottom line there has to be a process. It's only talked about equity. I think that people think in general that democracy works in as good as it's fair. Probably two particular people in this room probably don't feel that way. Also when we're talking about representation and changing dynamics, there is an assumption that all people are good people. And that there is a process and it's easy to ask for help or to say that I've been treated a certain kind of way. And to always go to people that sometimes look like you are sharing experiences, maybe not that. So having a neutral place to do that. The other piece is it's great to have data or to collect information to be able to share with the NPAs about what people say in a way that people don't feel attacked. If we could share data, we've gotten XM on complaints about these things. We can share information when I'm the item head to a person and share information. So I think there's a lot of different ways to go about this, but ultimately it has to be informed by what we've gone as far as resolution to the structure so that we can match the two things. I've heard underscoring and highlighting of that collaborative nature that you're hoping to keep up as it's kind of an iterative process that you're going to continue to want information from the NPAs about what you're seeing and what you're hearing and requesting. And then Kim's office is going to also try and be responding with suggestions and ideas or drafts of a policy that you're working on. And really key piece is the city's not trying to be the person that remediates anything. So we wouldn't be doing the way put it disposition on something. Think about conducting. Right, so it's a place to take the information and then redirect it wherever needs to go based off of what is going on in the process and your structure. Yeah, I think it's problematic that it says non-discrimination because it's like our NPAs shouldn't just not be hating people, they should be celebrating and also working to increase the amount of diverse. Right, so it's like, instead of a negative, don't discriminate, it should be a positive, also don't discriminate, but there should be a focus on making them more diverse, bringing in diversity, celebrating that diversity. You want my opinion? I mean, I, yes, right? Yes. And when things happen where people are treated in a certain way, that is what you're trying to remediate. One is quite subjective, right? I want to be included. I want to feel belonged. I want to feel celebrated. That would be in the eye of the beholder. Such as also when people feel discriminated against, that is for them to decide and to have a place to go that hopefully is neutral and can input that information and help it go where it needs to go. Right? And there's, there's more clarity. What the city is not going to do and I want to be very clear is we will not be the arbiters of what is fair and not fair. It's more of, again, the conductor. We need the information to be able to be in a place where it's accessible for people know where they can go to file, like say, says complaint. And a very broad abstract thing. And then a clear process procedural fairness about where it goes and what goes so people understand the process of what you're doing it versus going to a home. And never knowing what's going to happen. And so that's what we're trying to create in collaboration with you all about what that process looks like. So who would be in the office? I think it depends on the thing. It's a very hard process of things that are existing where it's good things go and different places and places where they've been as we go back to a lot of different things. It's very such a question. If this process that your office would be conducting once they receive a complaint for an agreed individual is the process just for the agreed individual or that person and the person that they have conflict with. So, because it's both are just focused on the person who feels agreed. So one, I didn't necessarily say it would be my office. So one, we're going to come up with that process and collaborate with you and have a conversation behind that. As far as what happens from that, I think it depends on what the thing is. Right. And it depends on where the complaint goes. So let's just say in a hypothetical world, you as your NPA one decides that this is your grievance process. What we are are the housing maybe and it comes to us and then we refer it back to you to your whomever it really is about the collaborative process of coming up with that processes. So we saw Nancy and Colin had their hands up sorry that you've been waiting a while. Nancy go ahead. Maybe this is jumping ahead but I thought it might inform this discussion. What are we envisioning as far as an implementation of this of these changes or a communication plan, because whatever we do whatever's defined is only going to be as good as people knowing about it right. That point is sorry. I meant the broader community and not just the steering committee but the whole NPA. Yeah, that seems like a very good point for a couple steps down the line. So we'll make note of it for sure in the notes but it does, it kind of includes some of the things that we've talked about in terms of being a what having a more user community or in terms of how people are accessing whatever the bylaw resolutions and, you know, code of contact conduct would be for the NPA so your point is a good one around the necessary need for communication it's only as good as what people know. Colin. Yeah I was, I was. I don't know if this is a good question or not. I just I don't have a lot of experience with the NPA so I'm not too sure. But functional difference. You know, with regards to this complaint process between a conflict that would be discriminatory in nature, and a conflict that would be, I guess, more interpersonal. Someone doesn't like someone else, not because of the protected class, but because they don't get along, and then there's, you know, there's acrimonious interaction as a result of that. Is that something that the city is going to help out with or because it doesn't. It's not a discriminatory, you know, situation that's that's something different. I would say we haven't spent much time talking about this together, but we do have a conflict resolution component at the Community Justice Center if it's that type of conflict it may be an appropriate answer, rather than a process which is what Kim was just describing. I wonder the question or as how do we differentiate between those and isn't a matter of protected classes and definitions or is there other are there other minutes to hear your question correctly Colin is that what you're trying to get at. Well yeah, and I guess to further like should should we have different process for conflict resolution based on the nature of the conflict. And that's literally that's very honestly an open question I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I'm a birdie you all I have an opinion, of course, but I think. So globally speaking, when you're making a policy about agreements, because you want to address certain things. It's not going to be attached to an event and I think that what I'm trying to say here to everyone is creating this grievance about conflict resolution and the thought is that this was because of something that happened in particular MBA for me from an equity lens. I look at this as a gap in, do we have a space if someone had a grievance about whatever it is for them to be able to grief that to a neutral party so they don't have to go to their steering. They can put it someplace and then we can come up with a process to what happens next. And legally, we have to flush out some more things once we have conversations about what that looks like and what the expectation of this body is, and that will inform my next steps. I don't want to get into right now a conversation where we're trying to backdoor talk about the events. I'm going to talk to you today for me in my office about seeing a need or a space where something doesn't doesn't exist and in common spaces now for something that was created in 1980 we moved a long way. And so because of that, we want to make sure that people have a place that they can go no matter what the protective thing is that they know where they can say hey, I was made to fill this way or I feel this way, and they can fill out a form or whatever and what that looks like, especially as it relates to the NBA is something we have to flush out as a body. So that's kind of the best way and hopefully what I've heard from you Kim too is just that that hopefully will provide more options than people feel like they have right now that feel narrow. I don't understand the, the scenario of public safety or of, you know, kind of what grievance can look like from a fairly narrow definition or scenario that that it has been two more options. And I do imagine, Colin, to your question that if there was any type of grievance, it would start in one place so if that's the REIV office, all grievances go there and they sort of get looked at, supported and sorted out at that point. Jason. I think it's really important that we're talking about grievance process and figuring out how to establish that, but I just want to put in a plug for the bigger picture here which, as I see it is that we're all responsible for creating a culture within the NBAs where the need for a grievance process is minimal. And I think it's, again, super important to talk about this but I don't want to get kind of lost down that hole and forget that 95% of the landscape should be how do we, in everything we're doing create a culture of the NBAs where people feel like they can show up, they'll be heard, they'll show up and expect to listen, and it's going to feel like a productive space where everybody can have peace of it. And then very occasionally it goes off the rails and we need a way to deal with that like you're talking about, but hopefully that's like, you know, 1% of the picture. So, you know, in Montpelier, there's a norm there that you could like those crosswalks on State Street, you could be reading a book, drinking a coffee, talking on the phone, across the street and you're almost guaranteed you're not going to hit by a car because like the norm is everybody comes to a screeching halt whenever there's anybody in a crosswalk. And that's just the culture they've built up there. And you know they still have police because probably very occasionally there's some Yahoo who goes down State Street 40 mile an hour. It's extremely rare because they've done an incredible job with that culture. And I'm, I really want to keep my attention focused on that because I'm not good at, you know, there's people who know you've clearly done this and have expertise in it and we need it. But my focus is how do we create the space where the need for that is new. Do you want to take the next. It's a great segue. Sure. I just want to say, so I've been to many, many fundings of NPA meetings. Wayne and NPAs that existed for 40 years. It took 40 years before something happened that brought everybody into this room. So I think the NPA has done a pretty darn good job for 40 years. So I just wanted to basically just point that out. I have some disagreement with that. I think that what happened was in some cases people just stopped going. They're like, I don't want to deal with this. I've got enough to deal with. You know, this isn't going to be a safe welcoming space for me. So I'm just not going to go anymore. You're broke. And, and then we had, you know, what happened to me and every so often I'd be like, I'm, I'm, I'm like, yeah, but then I'm going all this other stuff, police commission, everything and every time I'm like, yeah, we're still going to do anything about that. And then this last incident was like, okay, that's it. These people have been so emboldened by what they've been doing to people. It's completely off the rails. But I think in the past, when these things have happened, people would just stop going and just, and now more people feel better about saying something. I felt, I feel like I wish I had said more or pushed more, but I was, a lot of you know, when I visit your NPA is I'm always talking about public safety issues and that's where I've been really focused on. But, and it's interesting too because people's lenses are different. I had people who, who didn't notice didn't respond to what happened to me and then I had people email me was like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I was treated. So people's lenses are different. Thank you. Jason, would you like to share with you? Sure. So I'm going to start just by noting that the impetus for this and the first graph that came from Farid and Lena. And I helped with some tweaks and then Lena took it back and did more work on it and other senior committees, senior committee members weighed in. But it really started with these two. So I want to see the floor for a minute if either of you would like to say anything about this. I think I want to make sure that like our intention is like creating. I mean, we, we, we heard about like what happened before seven and we, you know, obviously, like I also know that the NPAs are like autonomous and keeping that in mind. We were kind of left with just like, so what can we do as an NPA ourselves, which is we can pass resolutions and for our word. And there's the mechanism for each NPAs to inform each other on what what what resolutions have been passed and really like the kind of like the way we address the situation is by passing our passing our NPAs resolution, like with the statement that Jason and Lena and the rest worked on, but then also asking, I think, informing other NPAs in this case I reached out to six and like tell them like here is the deal there's a situation. I don't know how much power we have, but we can pass resolutions. I never even thought that the city council would pass their own resolution. This was never the intention for us. I felt like it would be much better if this was something that comes from the bottom side and it comes out organically that surely there's like an element of shaming like other NPAs for like doing them. But I mean, that's kind of like how these things, that's how norms like really get get set, right? And that's how it changed. So never in like our like, you know, initial like thought that this was going to be something that they cannot buy the city council and they'd be like a top down. This is what you guys have to do because that's not what the NPAs is. That's not how it worked. That's not how it should work. So that's like, I think like I agree with the content of the resolution at the end of the city council pass, which is also what they did in our NPAs resolution. It's just a process that I don't think, I think that would be much better. I guess I'll just say one thing briefly. There's also accountability, right? We don't have to have the words on the edge. We also have to practice them as a community. And I think the part of this that feels most important to me as a steering committee member and as a member of my community is that we actually work on this together and we believe it and we do it. And I think there's a lot of, there's always a lot of disconnect between formal governance and the data and experience of people in that place. And the NPAs are a really beautiful opportunity to say we can govern and we live here, this is ours. And so I think the hope for this is that this is an opportunity for us to govern ourselves coming from a place of mutual respect. And regardless of what happens at the city level, I think it's really spectacular for NPAs to kind of take this up amongst ourselves. Thank you. Thank you both. I'll just say a couple of words about process because I think you covered intent really well. Our thinking is, well, this, this, this resolution is a draft. It was put out in the agenda. Our meeting is tomorrow night. And we'll have hopefully a robust discussion on this among hopefully a large set of people who decide to show up and be part of that discussion. And perhaps make some amendments based on suggestions from the floor and then vote on this resolution at the meeting tomorrow with all who are present. And then that's really the first of two steps because a resolution doesn't have any material effect. It's just a, at least in an NPA context, it's just a statement of here's what we believe. And what we do want to do coming out of this, though, is to draft a some sort of bylaw amendment that builds the principles of this resolution into the war dot and five NPAs bylaws. And we haven't really given any thought as a steering committee or as you know a broader NPA as to what exactly that will look like. And that's not necessarily next step because the resolution basically just sets a direction and the bylaw changes. Okay, here's what we're going to do about this in a more structured way from here forward. So that's, that's our intent. If this resolution or some modified version of it is of interest to any other NPA, we freely invite anybody to take it and modify it to fit, you know, what works for your NPA and pass, you know, whatever version of it makes sense. But part of what we're hoping is that, you know, a series of parallel and roughly congruent if not identical statements are in themselves powerful because it indicates that people in the NPAs all over the city are in agreement about X. So I don't know if that'll be the case but that would be a welcome outcome if other folks wanted to pick this up and make it there. We don't have questions or comments from any of our word five representatives here. Yeah. Take this house. You know it's always good to see when the individual NPAs want to go on record and whatever the issue may be and seek to collaborate with the rest of the NPAs about the cities that think that's kind of what the intent was behind the NPA. So, I just wanted to say thank you for the effort and I know that we're expecting a resolution to be challenging multiple resolutions and maybe some late night phone calls. Thank you. I actually have one process question and we can set this aside but it goes back to the opening meetings question. Steering committee members worked a bunch together on what is something very substantive in order to have something to bring to the NPA meeting for consideration but it wasn't just, you know, drafting an agenda we created a product. Is that a violation of open meeting laws. In this instance. In your in you went back for trying to create this. I mean, we have multiple grass in a Google Doc. You had a forum of the open of the body present so I depends on the number of members on your steering committee as well. All of us were weighing in. Yeah. So in that case, that would have been not not the most appropriate thing to do if the entire steering committee was doing that as a group. So that's something I think we need to figure out because I have a suspicion that it's not uncommon for steering committee members to work together on something substantive that then gets brought to the broader NPA for consideration. And if that runs up against open being laws that's kind of a monkey ranch in the words of getting useful stuff done. I don't know what the right answer is there I'm just flagging across purposes thing that seems to be significant. Welcome to our world. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, and that's again an operating assumption that we are part of the government. I don't know that I agree with that. But that were in fact the case and yeah, I would follow the we want to follow all the city policies but I think that. Yeah, I mean, it's the best like we all do this week, you know, you know, collaborate trying to form meetings and stuff like that. Here's a key difference that might actually be useful the steering committees don't actually have any authority. The voting resides in the city and the steering committee is simply we're almost like support staff for the NPA. Yeah, so it's if we're not doing anything that in any way predetermines the outcome because the outcome by definition of any kind of voting thing is the NPA itself. So I think it's it's almost a misapplication of open meeting law to apply it to the steering committee because it's not a decision making body analogous to a city council. That makes sense. I might just take it. At the risk of screwing everything up. I like pay it one step further in that the NPAs themselves have no authority. There's there's nothing that happens at an NPA that has to impact anything in the city. Why don't like the city council. The city council resolution is, you know, it's an ordinance. It's, you know, it goes to a charter change. It's alive. There's nothing that happens at the NPA that does more than it by advice meeting. Absolutely nothing. So that's why this feels ambiguous and clarity would be great. What you said is perfect because there's totally nothing that the steering committee except great things to the NPA, but even the NPA has no authority. Maybe rather than saying open meeting law, it seems like the underlying principle that we're trying to get at here is that the NPAs themselves are open to everyone. Yes. But that's not the same thing as open meeting law per se. It's more that that anyone who is, you know, who resides in the ward is equally welcome to attend and participate and vote. And then maybe the part that's open meeting law is that, you know, the meetings need to be properly warned and so on and so forth. But at that, that's the more narrow part is we have to get the word out and people get to show up. Okay, so one more hand and you're fine. I want to pivot to after you I want to pivot over here to hand the agenda off because Jason gave us another great segue. Yeah, I just, we could get lost in the sauce on this all night. And I know that we don't really want to do that. But it seems and I'm so glad that we have you here because there's clearly all of these questions about like where's the where's the line between NPA autonomy and NPA authority and jurisdiction and also city jurisdiction. And it seems like the, we all really need a set of guidelines about how we introduce resolutions that make sure that people actually know we're voting on them and people know that we're voting on bylaws that we can, we can be accountable to the communities that we're serving as NPA staring committee members, and also maintain that fundamental autonomy from the same, just part of what makes the NPA so special. So it seems like there's a pretty clear request for that guidance. And then it feels really connected to to this other resolution from Jonathan, which to me means as an opportunity to bring the city a little bit more in line with the NPA is a little bit sorry, which I think would be really great. So it seems like, you know, the first step we need guidance and then the second step is that maybe the NPA should have a little bit of such that we can, we can sort of bring bring the ability a little bit more fluidly like from the community to the NPA and the NPA. They've all done a great job of really highlighting the foundational conversation and dialogue and decisions that need to be made around 40 years in. Who are the NPA's and what is the relationship between the city, what power do they have or not happen. So we're definitely making note of that. Next. So we're going to hand it off to Basta and to stop to talk about. Can you just do a couple of little. Yeah, it's getting quieter. It's later. But here it gets a little later. So actually, I do have a thing while they're getting set to do that. So this does do with training the steering communities. So when you ask steering committees that gone down to zero membership, you get new members on steering committee. So, I don't know the answer to that question is that people just self-appoint themselves to steering committees. I don't think that's going to be the guidelines. Maybe other steering committees could just like nominate them or something. I was like, I'm not sure. Nick here. I'm sorry, Brian, Brian. I'm not sure how they get on the screen. Yeah, so they're technically not yet on the steering committee. Right now, since we don't have any steering numbers from those words, we need to work with the residents to create a committee. And so to elect someone to the steering committee, like any, any NPA you would vote and then say a meeting. So that would happen. And people can be appointed. We worked with City Councilor to see if there were volunteers in their work. So obviously there's going to be a vote and for the time being, you're an active strain. Yeah. As everyone's welcome to this meeting obviously. But Charlie raised a straight point, which is if there's no one on the steering committee, what do you do? And I think the idea is staff meeting Tosca and Scott will work with City Councilors to try to get people to come out, put it out for a forum and do a number of outreach methods to reach people to hopefully recruit votes. And then you call the meeting and then you have a vote. I think it's the basic mechanics of it. And I am a suggestion. I think one personal opinion that you see, though, postings should effectively call an NPA meeting, which really just says anybody in the war, come here tonight and we'll talk about it. And so I think that's a step in, particularly in the two NPAs where in Peters there's no steering committee. So I think my recommendation is that, you know, call a meeting and say, come here tonight on a night and let's talk about how to go. Because really I think most NPAs elected, you know, you're elected by the body that's present. Names are put forward and you'll be elected. But we first have to have the group come to a room and have a discussion. And maybe part of the discussion is the mini version of this first. And then I think the members present can nominate themselves or whoever else is willing to go for that. Yeah, so I think Scott maybe talk a little bit more about this too. And then work, as you said, like working with NPAs themselves to create a process and understand how to get people interested and have a rebuild of steering committee. So we'll work on calling a meeting. And Scott has been working on a process for creating those two steering committee members. Steering committee, steering committees. I don't know if you want us to go on that at all. I can take that. The process is ongoing so I'll certainly have some support and have a later date. I have just a question about like, I mean, it's more of maybe a process question, but how are you going to bootstrap this and who's going to be facilitating in like in the case it looks like, you know, Ryan stepped up. He's a kid. He could be basically a committee of one is do you need a, what's a, what's the minimum number that you can have? What if you only have one person interested in the work? What happens? So I'm just, I'm just trying to, like, so, you know, interested parties, but they're not official until you can have enough interesting parties to stand up a committee or what you say to people can run with it for some period. I'll speak to a number. Okay. Okay. Okay, so 10. Okay. Okay, there's all the previous MPA steering committee members who might have left because they wouldn't stand in now, like, there's a chance that we'll come back in. And so I would just like say that until you have that minimum number, there would be the role of CEDA to sort of work through that process or would it be city councilors. I just got to copy us on email and we're here tonight because I did have fun this meeting actually fascinating, by the way, but I don't think it is our, we don't, I don't view it as our role to be constitute the word for seven MPD. But to help in any way we can. So I guess I'm just trying to understand that. I don't want a city staff to be at the job of recruiting people that doesn't feel like a good, that doesn't feel quite right. We want the neighbors to recruit neighbors. And so grassroots methods of communication and recruitment is more like that happen by people who go to the grocery store and see people at the school or wherever you see people. That's the way to bring people in, not through city. Yeah, that's great. That seems unprecedented and I'm absolutely new to this table, but it needs to be in the bylaws like a working group needs to decide if one of the MPAs collapses how do we rebuild. We've never had a full. We've never had that ever. I don't think so, which is fine and we've had more or less and committed people more or less. So I don't think that has to slow you down. I think you get particularly the two words, I think. I think it's not competing it. I am setting a setting with time. We'll book the room will do all that stuff, you know that stuff and then it is up to everybody else to like, throw them up. And I just throw in something here. Okay, so over the years, what I always used to do is I would follow I'm not on Facebook and follow from course for I saw somebody make some kind of a comment from course for somebody did something interesting. They did something or they said something or they acted in a certain way. I would actually email. And I would say, you know, that was a really interesting thing that you did or said, and would you do you know anything about the NPAs. And so that's how I actually drew several very committed members over the years. That to me, so it's kind of an ongoing thing. It's not like, oh, now we're in a crisis. So if you just do that ongoing, you don't have these little tiny steering committees, which is what the problem has been for years now. You've had these tiny little steering committee, especially when you look at the steering committee, you might have five names on it, but if you've only got one person really actively doing the work. What you need to do is you need to be constantly looking for somebody who's willing to be on that committee and actually do something positive and be an active person. So that's why I always keep my eye out and I probably do that like 10 times a year. I don't have to do it anymore. I don't have to do it, but basically when I see someone, even if it's in a different word, right now if I saw some of the word hate, especially for the new word three, or even four, seven, that's what I would do. I'd say, you know, that was, you seem to need an interesting person, you know anything about committees, and it just naturally over time you just attract the type of person that you think in the person. Yeah, and this is part of why we want to talk about this too is because, you know, we can't do this on our own and we need your ideas. And that also will fall into kind of the community outreach section of the agenda. But I just wanted to say that the this student committee member trainings orientation of you, or six strength committee members and others have mentioned to me. When they started as a new student committee member, it's really difficult to understand what their role was, which kind of touched on earlier, as well as you know, what is expected in terms of meeting minutes or genders or basic tasks or, you know, does steering committee assigned roles to each other, or how that kind of process works and so think they thought it would be great to have kind of training orientation when strength committee members begin so that they know what's going on. And so I wanted to open up for ideas or comments on that. And I see we have people online as well. So if you have any ideas, I want to do a little, a brief brainstorm but I know we're running a little behind so we'll try not to go too long. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, sorry. I don't know if this is happening for anyone else online but we lost the video feed. So I can't actually see. Yeah, I came. I came here to say the same thing. Oh, you lost the video. Sorry. Yeah, out there. There you go. Welcome back. Samantha. Yeah, I came here to say the same thing but also Fosca, you and I had talked about this and I think that you had said something about community outreach and in terms of understanding roles in the NPA and everything I think. Yeah, I think training is a good idea. I think that people starting to come into MPAs sort of have a little bit of responsibility and just like finding brief history of MPAs and kind of just like getting what they're getting into. And I just know. But I think that having like a broader training between maybe all wards, and maybe even within little steering committee, specific steering committee award things like how we're getting together on Friday to talk about our planning meeting. We can always set aside time specifically in our word to do that as well. Thank you. I think so we've talked a lot about like defining our relationship with the city and that's something that I hope will be in action that it's done. I just wonder to supplement the training. There's like a general guiding principles document that that's built into that roughly outlines the idea, but still allows each of the wards to have the autonomy and to say, oh yes, we assign, you know, Roxanne is always going to be the facilitator and I'm always going to be the note taker, or say we rotate through or something like that. Okay, so let me ask Roxanne. What happens in wards two and three Chris, what happens in wards two and three when someone expresses interest and join the wards two or three MP. What happens. Just do it. The steering committee, right. Yes, some of what they're from usually. Okay, but we've been trying, we try and meet with them if it's not during our regular election process to have the student as many steering committee members as possible meet with them and have a dialogue about what it is and what you can bring. And so if I love to buy for the appointment of a steering committee member that would then need to be voted in or have the next regularly scheduled at the beginning. The only point I'm trying to make is that, see, they sit down, they actually, when somebody expresses interest in me on the steering committee, they actually invite them to sit down with them and talk about about what's involved, why are you interested. This is what we do. So that, that is a good model in my opinion, people that, again, you have to have active steering committee members to do that. We're interested enough in the FDA to do that, but see that to me is a good model that they adopt. I think, from the word standpoint, that's a model of luxury. Our response somebody expressed interest in being on the steering committee. What we usually say is, you have somebody to nominate you at the next meeting. It's love to have more people I don't. I personally as a steering committee member have nothing to say about other people want to be steering committee. I welcome anybody. So, I don't think I hope you're not going to talk about it because it doesn't feel like it's necessary within our ward. It seems like it would be helpful kind of along the lines of what you're talking about to have some kind of very basic document that says, at a city wide level. There's what being a steering committee member means and here are the basic expectations. And then each word can elaborate on that. But like that way that that seems like the appropriate level of betting like, you know, the job is just make sense to you you want to do this is and then get into it. It's like a really general question as a person that is really nice. I know we're talking about steering committee, but I would think that that all starts with recruitment of people in general. I'm trying to understand as a brand new person to Burlington. I've lived in two separate communities. If I did and I'm a personal color. If I did not work for the city, I would not know anything that you're talking about right now. I've never been approached by anyone at a grocery store. I've never been approached by anybody anywhere about participating in an MPA and this I'm asking this question, Kim Carson, or for for right. I literally as a, I would say, pretty engaging person have never once been asked by anyone to be a part of an MPA. I've never seen a sign anything. So, as we're talking about this process as a person that thinks about equity and looking at the dynamics in this room. We're making the assumption that people are that friendly and they're engaging their neighbors and they're doing all these different things. I would have to say, right. And so I'm like, you're talking about building one where I live as well and those kind of thing. What really are we doing as far and not with the city story. My community members, the people I live with, like, is there like an annual campaign that you do to go door knocking like what what I hear a lot about deferring to CEDO, but I'm going to do the other thing as a new person to Burlington. What are the people that want to be autonomous and don't want to think your business. What are you doing? Hold on just a second. Yeah. I'm mindful of the time. 928. Samantha has her hand up. Sorry, let's go there and then a couple more things. Thank you. So great, great point. So I'm my partner Joel and I are about a year and a half new to Burlington and we kind of were nerds and before we moved here really dug deep into the history of Burlington and and the community aspects that surround the city and so we kind of came in searching for that and we are very lucky to be have landed in Ward one and have some really great resources and and we're going to be able to do that. So I'm going to go ahead and bring in Jonathan and Carol and people like Jim Bar and Dave Collie, but to your point of reaching out to people. Fosca and I had talked about this and I think from what I've heard words two and three have their famous dinners that are supposed to be bringing in hundreds of people and I think food is extremely important in cooking for the ward one MPAs and I think that, especially with people's busy schedules. Sometimes a hot topic agenda item is not enough to bring people but if you have a hot topic item and food. You're just like, yeah, you had a really stressful day. How about we have some nice hot food fatten each other up and then have a nice calm conversation about some things that are rising in the community. So I think that and just making sure that people know that there is food and especially I like it's free food. So that's, I think that's like secondary thing getting as many people in as you can that way. I think is really, really important. So we did have another business item and Rachel has some follow up tasks for us. Are we okay with finishing up. I think Kim's point is really crucial. Absolutely. I don't know those that would be every time we have an awards meeting we talk about this. So maybe I can summarize what I've heard so far as the action steps which definitely includes him's great point. One of the first comments we've heard was the return to all words meaning that seemed to irregular maybe not regular enough and the content of next steps kind of call for maybe perhaps one or more all words means and then your future, because these are the other action items we that I heard, defining the relationship between the NPAs in the city which may need a working group of its own or just one more open session dialogue meaning like this, a resolution of a working group and perhaps a communication and outreach group that perhaps our ID would be present at all three because the grievance process that you've talked about Kim is crucial as well as the equity lens and I don't want to put this on in the context like this, this is the working groups of the NPAs and CEDO combined, and that grievance process iterative process, you know, kind of data influx that you were talking about Kim. I don't know if you have an opinion on which would be the most pressing working group or if you thought that could include all three but a resolution working group a bylaws working group and maybe a communication outreach group, the non discrimination policies of the NPAs related to Kim's point, and Jonathan, Jonathan. Yeah, point in terms of the non discrimination policies of the NPA should be almost identical with the city. So that again needs a collaborative process to make sure that we're off we are on the same page, and that CEDO would be meaning to call a meeting for awards four and seven to help start the committee. And what? Eight, morning. Thank you. Interesting party. Any member, Alex. Did I miss action? Yeah, correct. Well, this just occurred to me and I want to get into the minutes so I'm just saying now, I'm going to put my colleague Laura on the spot. She's also on over to elections. Yes, I am. So here's an idea I floated I think it was before you were on the committee and I did have a very verbal conversation with City Hall but how about we put a little little car or something anytime someone registers the vote that they get some kind of confirmation in the mail slip a little empty thing and when they register to vote and it says now you're registered to vote you can come to the end. That's me. So that would be. So the one last piece. Someone wanted to talk about a mayoral debate. That was being and I like to talk a lot but it's just say please read the proposal to see it I didn't email him but you have feedback give me all my emails on the original chain. I just have to clarify is it Saturday to 17 or Wednesday to 14 for the first one. It's supposed to be. Are they both supposed to be Wednesdays. Okay, and those days were picked. We had a conversation initially with, I got the inspiration from Tom and then I talked to my colleague Erica for more to, and I talked about the job that I had. And it was a very brief process request holiday, which is, unless I missed it and there is one it would be great to have a, an all awards steering committee, Google group it seems like there's a list of emails that got sent to, but it's much more functional if we actually have some sort of Google group or something like that. So, is that something that you guys are feeling to set up and add us on to. There was a Google form that Sam set up Scott right there is just which everyone had access to that was a place to house difference. Well, actually, different things that people have done in their employees as a resource for other. I will figure out how to get access to that. Yeah, so I'm just back up something that Chris said, so it was very common for a 10 years ago, the NPA sponsored city wide event. So, the NPAs would sponsor the event of contours or a memorial auditorium or something, and the NPAs which is basically sponsoring. So that was very common one time. In fact, we also used to do used to have like a theme where all the NPAs would do the same. The NPAs were more or more united. So what Chris is suggesting we used to do that a lot, and that that practice is also falling off. So I think it would bring the NPAs out of their isolation. I think that would be a great idea to do that. Are there any other action items that you heard tonight that we missed or that you want to add now. I want to point in person. Let's go about recruiting people and if they need food for like their first meeting, like, let me know, like I work for the people kitchen. You're happy to show up at any NPA and provide food. Thank you. So we do have a lot of leftover food containers, but it feels, we'll deal with it in City Hall tomorrow, but that just feels kind of stingy. There are some bulls over there. Thank you very much for everybody online and for everybody in the room for gathering tonight. It's really great. Thank you all.