 Hello everyone, welcome to the Straight Talk Vermont show. I'm Bruce Wilson, Executive Director of Service Rending, Incorporated, and Straight Talk Vermont is one of our programs along with Arts are Wonderful and United College Club, GIFI Vermont, a lot of programs. And so I'm very very excited today to be here with my friend Jim Condis. Jim, welcome sir. Thank you Bruce. Thank you for coming on the show. My pleasure. Oh wow, and so we got a lot to talk about. Yeah we do. So first of all let's talk about you in Vermont. So how do you know what what's your memories or what you know why were you born here? I was not born here I was born actually in New Jersey but my family moved here when I was four years old. I grew up in K through 12 in Burlington and South Burlington schools. I went to the old Adams School elementary school on South Union Street which is no longer. Then went to Burlington High School junior high school at Edmonds and then Burlington High School for I think through into my sophomore year when we moved to South Burlington. Finished up in South Burlington, went to the University of Vermont, graduated from the University of Vermont, and then stayed here my whole work career. So before we get to the last part of your career you know the Secretary of State which is a big deal. Let's just talk about at the go through you know your experience in Vermont you know you know I came in 1989 was a white-state American and then some people say it still is number one but they say it's number two you know which is awesome I mean my I actually made a difference you know. So what was it like for you to grow up with you know people who who wasn't who didn't like me around in Vermont you know or you know just people of color or BIPOC. So I think for me it was a little bit different because I came from New Jersey all my all my relatives were in New Jersey in the oranges norc area and so and many of my relatives are still down that way and so I was accustomed to it I mean it was not anything real surprising to me I think at the time I think there were two black families and in Burlington I think one was the Washington's and and I forget the other the Heinz family and and so it was really it was very little impact on on my life for sure but I think it was again I because I we used to go to New Jersey to visit relatives I was yeah and you know we would interact with people neighbors of my grandparents and or my aunts and uncles so it was it was to me it was not any kind of right when you're shocked or anything like that but yeah but I get it I mean I understand how some people yeah you know what it was a shock and I personally think and you know before we were talking a little bit about immigration and I'm as I explained to you I'm second-generation American all four of my grandparents came to the United States for a better life and when they got here they were treated like dirt as well because they were foreign and they didn't speak much English and and I think you know if I look back on my different cousins my aunts and uncles the things that that they were able to accomplish and I remember when I first got elected to city council in South Burlington my my father was there and he had tears rolling down his eye from his face and and I said to him dad what's the matter and he aren't you happy that I'm on city council and he goes no I just wish your grandfather could have seen this what an honor right I know I know is how honorable he felt for you being so you know and as I explained earlier you know I I served 18 years on the South Burlington City Council I served eight years in the state Senate representing Chittenden County and then the last 12 years I've been secretary of state so you know I've had a long career I've accomplished a lot in my career and I'm looking forward to retirement I'm I'm definitely of the age so so so you're Greek you know I'm when I leave here I'm going to one I sit on Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission I'm on the board of directors and in one of our equity manager gonna take me to lunch and I'm saying we're talking about Greek I'm like dang I want Greek food is there any Greek restaurants in around there used to be several actually there used to be several I don't think to my knowledge I'm not sure that there are any anymore I mean my my father was in the restaurant business and he worked with my uncle they had my uncle owned two restaurants I guess you could call them Greek restaurants and then there were other ones there was the Park Cafe which was owned by the Papas's there was another group of Papas's that owned another Greek restaurant there was a couple of the diners that were in town they were owned by Greeks and and you know I mean obviously Greek food is it's good I mean I like it was is it hero hero hero hero it's it sounds like the H-E-R-O but it's pronounced it's spelled G-Y-R-O and you know I mean I and I remember the Sunday night dinners with when we were being New Jersey at my grandparents when all the relatives would come over for dinner you know we'd have 25 people sitting around the my grandfather had like two picnic tables and in the in the kitchen and and everybody'd be sitting around and there'd be like 25 conversations going on and everybody knew what everybody else was talking about so so all the education into the middle school high schools and college and that balled up to be Jim Connors and so how do you become how do you become interested in like politics you know well I it's not something I ever thought I would get into but I was living in South Burlington and there was a zoning issue that came up and there was someone from our neighborhood was walking around talking to people and I said well it'd be better they wanted to convert a residential house into some kind of a business office building and and I remember saying well that's better than if they were trying to make it into a McDonald's or something and they said yeah but the zoning doesn't even allow that and that's when I first started to get an inkling in it and you know I served on the South Burlington City Center Committee in 1985 then I was on the zoning board in the later 80s and then I went from there to the City Council I became the chair in 1999 and at the time that I became chair one of my first phone calls was to Mayor Peter Clavel to talk about how we can build more affordable housing between South Burlington and Burlington where you were trying to do or doing anyway right in South Bronson and so so so you're on the city count I mean I didn't be on the city council for 18 years six three year terms I'm just saying I know I know Bronson had like two year terms in that mayor Clavel got it shipped to three years but um so you is where you to go so long on the city council I guess South Burlington City yeah it was just because I was involved and you know like you I served on the on the Chittenden County Planning Commission I served on the MPO which dealt with federal dollars for transportation I served on CCTA which is now Green Mountain Transit so you know all all these different organizations I served on so I had a vast knowledge as I was growing into this area and then I ended up I remember one friend was leaving South Burlington and said to me I guess I'll see you in the State House at some point and I said no you'll never see me there and then two years later Governor Dean recruited me to run for the Chittenden County Senate and I guess as I say the rest is history right right so so let me ask you let's go back to 1985 when this city center you know where they're building up now right this soft probably build up the whole city center which is looking incredibly nice on Merchant Street or Merchant's Row whatever you call that street Senate Merchant Street market market street market street now now why did it take so long I mean it fair is it because of tiffs fell well I think that was part of it I think also there was the landowner it was owned pretty much most of the land was owned by one landowner and he has since passed away but you know the he was obviously he wanted to make money on it and you know we kept telling him well we'll put these rules in place so you can do bigger projects but he wasn't interested he's a he was an earth mover and and you know he built streets and roads and things and it was it was tough to convince him at that time that this was the right thing to do and we tried to incorporate the University Mall involved in that right and I think that in the future you're gonna see some changes with the University malls are going out yeah they have a lot of land yes and I think they got six acres or something the University mall so maybe more but um yeah I know I know I've seen the plans before how was you know with the previous owners what they would they envision your time in like movie theaters and housing putting in street street grids with with apartments residential units and I think that was a part of the I think what really helped us with not only city center but also with affordable housing was when we changed some of the zoning for instance down on Shelburne Road where the Shaw's is across from the price chopper that land behind there was basically wasteland it was it was zoned for big boxes and it was about 25 acres and we increased the zoning density on that land to about I forget it was about 20 20 acres 20 units per acre or something and now when you go down through there you have over 500 units of residential housing yeah which is on the bus line yeah it's right next to grocery stores banks you know all the drug stores everything you need and it was there was subsidized housing there was affordable housing there was rental units there was market rate housing units for you know individually owned condo type and then there was market rate and then and then we also worked with Champlain housing to build senior housing in that area so you had a complete cross-section yes nice and South Burlington actually won an award a national award for smart growth with that project I used to go back to all the time when I when I used to go I was sitting on some things for the United Way into them yeah I think they're still there in one of those places yeah so so nice so many houses so many those buildings have like I've been in them they have like fitness centers and they all have like where you can do barbecue to have all these grills outside and all kind of cool things as in Santa's place when we used to when in working with Champlain housing the Burlington Land Trust all the different affordable housing units I remember as we were building different neighborhoods around the city I was sort of famous for saying we don't we don't build projects we create neighborhoods no doubt about it and that was the I kept saying to people we have to stop talking about projects oh yeah because that's got a bad connotation we want to go to neighborhoods because that's neighborhoods means it's about people exactly and I got from Chicago something about projects so yeah you know and I think you know I think my whole political career has always been about people yeah and I think everything you served on is all been about people you know you people who you are you serve in and so so you so a lot of things have come apart in soft Burlington and City Council and I work with some of those individuals still and so now why didn't you why didn't you go for a city manager I know my good friend that's not my that's not my cup of tea all right but you was you was in charge of a lot of stuff and South Burlington Chuck Hafter was our city manager and he was a really good city manager he was the first city manager South Burlington had that was actually trained as a city manager really and the city manager has to be so I'll use the word fluent in all the different aspects you are in human resources in project development in planning and vision and you know all these different things budgetary yeah so the city manager really has to you know they have a good manager there now Jesse Baker you know I think it's sometimes city managers are hard to come by sure Chuck became city manager the week before I became a city counselor so we kind of grew together in that role yeah he retired what's the guy was his treasure so who retired with him he was his longtime guy I can't think his name but he was they were like but anyways Chuck I've known him for many years and he supported my youth programs and projects and events and and his daughter was on my youth advisory board at one point and he did a lot for us and the youth and families around that area and he always looked out for us and and I you know he exactly what you said he's he was all in it you know and so he had a he went to a training and the city managers had to go I mean I guess we have to go get I don't know there's there's a international city manager group that meets every year and Chuck used to go to that pretty much every year and and I you know he like his daughter and my his oldest daughter and my daughter were the same age they were in the same classes together and then of course he had his younger daughter Laney but yes he was on my youth advisory board and you know there was a lot going on I mean you know I remember the days with with my daughter and you know I was worried about what road she was gonna go down and and but you know she's now an accountant that's a big deal she has two kids and lives in South Burlington oh and that awesome she stayed man because it's one of the things about youth who graduate from our wonderful universities and colleges you know they they don't stay man well she came back she came back so she was she went to school down in Atlanta at Georgia State University got her degree got her CPA and worked with a large account national accounting firm then requested she and her husband requested a change to move north and they moved to Somerville Massachusetts and they were there for about three years before they moved back to one once she had the two kids she wanted to get back to Vermont and her two kids are now enrolled in the same elementary school she was in while she went to wow that's so nice to hear people because one of our situations and we have a college program called United College Club and there's different colleges around the state and working with students and and one of the things and as you know we want to try to retain our students we don't want them to go away from Vermont but a lot of the situation is like the whatever they major in they don't necessarily have that major for them to participate in you know jobs for them here in the state and that's the sad part about it like you know like health care and you got social service and these type of people are engineering jobs and all kind of other type of jobs that youth major in we just don't have it for him so they're forced to go right forced to leave you know it's it's you know you you're caught between a rock and a hard place because you you have to have more development more growth in order to have the jobs available for our youth coming up and and that's kind of a balancing act and that's what we always tried to do in South Burlington was to kind of balance that growth and development versus protecting the environment and in fact it was you know I was used to say to people you have to look at the map you have Burlington South Burlington curls around from the east to the south the natural place that we're gonna have growth is gonna be in South Burlington the question is how do we grow and how do we manage that growth true true yeah that's not for a growth problem and so now you might be able to have answers this because obviously if something before I got here how do the Burlington Airport get to be Burlington Airport and it's South Burlington well it I think it goes back to the 1920s maybe even the 1910s but Burlington Burlington was looking at it building an airport and they picked that hundred acres or whatever out there and and the airport started it was just a small small airport at the time and you know it just grew from there and and you know there's been a lot of you know obviously we have the air guard that's there and that's been an important fact because we've gotten a lot of federal dollars for the airport for instance the fire and rescue that are is at the airport just a hundred percent paid by the federal government it's under the auspices of the air guard and it's the air the the airport is such an economic development factor for Vermont I think it really started to take off once what's his name with last name was Watson who was the CEO of IBM used to come to Vermont to go skiing okay and then turn around and said we're gonna build a plant in Vermont oh and they built it nice when he did a nice so and and I think that was where the airport really started to take off and grow more you know there have been times where people have said well we need to move the airport way you don't just move an airport yeah I don't know where you're moving to well that's the question where it's got to be an area that's pretty open it's like it's like there's no parking you know I mean you're gonna move out for but let me ask you a question about the airport another question too because you know you you know you've been around and you know some you got answers now I used to have that the the air guard down there on the airport these have the Green Mountain boys up there why did they take that down that I don't know I thought it was still up there but no there's still that's there if you want to call it call sign for the air guard is the Green Mountain boys I used to have a I think I still have the Newsweek magazine or Time magazine I forget which I think was Newsweek right after September 11th when I used to live right near the airport less than a quarter of a mile from the airport and I remember on after September 11th after the attacks on the US every four hours there were two jets taking off two F-16s fully loaded fully armed with two pilots heading to New York City to fly protective cover for for New York City and there was a picture that was taken of two F-16s from another plane of the two F-16s and it's right on the side it said Green Mountain boys who are right and you can see you know New York City behind it but you know the and Vermont's air guard has been one of the if not the top air guard in the country I'm so glad they there you know they got it if they have the scramble for some reason thank God and we have them right near us so what people didn't realize and I remember I visited some of them have been friends of mine some of the pilots but but at the airport there were always two F-16s fully loaded fully armed and ready to go on the runway two pilots that would be on 24-hour call so they were always on 20 there was a 24-7 approach to it because they had the primary if you want to call it defense once if a Russian bear came across the ocean sure and came by Greenland our guys would pick them up and travel with them down and hand them off to Virginia or or New Jersey or something but but it used to take from the time the sound the alarm sounded for the for the air guard it would be two minutes they were in the air seven or nine minutes they were out over the Atlantic and that's from here in Vermont so we're not gonna talk much about this but since we're talking about their air guard and F-16s so what's your feeling about the F-35s you probably knew I was gonna say that yeah it's a it's a it's a tough piece but I think we have to remember the mission that they have and they have a defensive mission and the F-35s are just you know it was because our air guard was so good that the F-35 we were the first to get that was the first F national guard or air guard that received F-35s so it you know it's it's it's tough I've been over to the airport I went deliberately to listen to the noise to see how bad it was I you know I said like I said I used to live next to the airport and and I just you know I I get it it can be disturbing at times but it's not it's only for a few seconds why was it why they allowed it in F-16 I mean it's the engine the way the engine is alright so so you live in Montpere now but so does it have something well you you're a state senator for eight years right from Chittenden County from Chittenden County State Center so how was that I mean what did you do did you accomplish anything yeah well I was a chair of the Education Committee at one point and then chair of the Senate government operations which Senate government operations actually oversees the Secretary of State's office and you know all the election stuff retirements labor issues so I I was heavily involved in those discussions and bills as they processed for instance we we did back in around 2005 the first major retirement reform issues to bring it kind of under control and of course it continued to spiral after that but that was for other reasons but but you know I think there was a lot of things going on at the time you know like I said I was the chair of this group and then when Secretary Markowitz before me decided to retire herself she ran for governor you know she suggested that I consider running for Secretary of State and I did awesome so it's Secretary not Secretary of State but State Senate Senate of two-year term or four-year term it's a two-year term I serve for two-year terms yes and it was elected and as is Secretary of State is two-year terms as is the governor's and lieutenant governor's office so Vermont is one of two states left in the country that is two-year terms it's us in New Hampshire every other state has gone to four-year terms oh wow and so the people elected to yes and ice ice actually support four-year terms because I think it allows for better planning and vision yeah the future yeah exactly you know you really say you're not always running yeah exactly because you know what you have to two years you have to run you start running six months after you start so I know that's but you know yeah so it's important that you be able to be able to do what you say you know me because if your platform is just that another then you want to be able to do it but if you need more like then one term to do it if you got right well you know if you're doing for instance it projects solutions for it takes more than two years yeah sure you got to do all the planning first before you actually go to an RFP and then start the implementation yeah so you need to go more than two years on that and you know when I first took office Bruce it was everything we did in the in the office all divisions of the Secretary of State's office it was done on a piece of paper yes you know you filed your annual report for your business on a piece of paper you filed a lean on a piece of paper you filed for your professional license on a piece of paper all your campaign finance reports for elections were on a piece of paper and it was really problematic and and I think by 2015 we had converted everything so it took five years but we converted everything over to a digital environment and you know I mean I even had lobbyists coming to us because they had to file their their reports on paper and they said we'll pay more but we need to do this right on a digital environment so we were able to accomplish all that and that's that is probably one of the if I had to pick one thing that we did aside from the voting rights issues but it's the one thing that we did that went across the entire Secretary of State's office was going from a paper environment to a digital environment because it allowed us we had literally zero percent activity on online right and then we had now over 98 percent yeah so so you so a Secretary of State which you retired from town you know you retired you retired tired in January so are you actually smiling about this 12 years okay so my man man man secretary of state office have so many categories on anything you know they had to corporate and this then you know your names you name all right so we have the first one obviously is corporate registration so if you want to do business in Vermont you have to register with our office through our office that's the first thing if a business has a lean against another business that gets filed in our office annual reports non-profits they have to file reports with us second one is the state archives and records management unit we have a state archives I had when I took over it would they had just completed a new state archives which is a state of the art archives our most precious documents were kept there the Vermont Constitution the bill of rights that we saw that the you at that the Vermont legislature signed and sent to Washington for the US bill of rights we have those documents in in the archives when Hurricane Irene hit Vermont and wiped out hundreds of bridges and hundreds and hundreds of miles of roads right after the agency of natural resources and the agency of transportation were in our archives pulling the old maps out so they could see where the roads used to be so they knew how to rebuild how to rebuild the state yeah right so the archives then we had the office of professional regulation which is the licensing we have over 50 professions 80,000 licensees nursing tattooist barbers cosmetologists pretty much all the health care fields except for the doctors which remain under the Department of Health but everything else is is with us what about DMV that Department of Motivation is that underneath in three states it's under the Secretary of State Maine Illinois and Michigan in Vermont it's under the transportation so but you know and then of course the one that probably the office is best known for is elections now so you saw um so the treasuries you signed the checks right no that's not that's the treasurer actually does that okay okay okay so so what is you think when you're 12 years being the Secretary of State which is a gigantic position that's something you had to run for at all I did have to run for it oh okay I have to get elected that's right you gotta get elected for I'm one of the I'm one of five constitutional officers and so I'm independently elected from the governor so that's why I don't have to listen every time so it's so it's um it's just you know I think what do you think you think people vote for you because of your service or they see your name because your name is probably a little bit of both I think I think you know I've earned a reputation of running the office in a nonpartisan fashion you know I held it my staff to that high high bar that we're not going to pick sides we're gonna follow the law that you know we look to be as efficient as possible one of the first things we did when I took out over in 2011 was to do you have a higher a professional firm to come in and look at the entire organization you know look at the different positions and and make suggestions to us on how we can improve efficiency and and my goal was some people thought oh he's gonna fire people no my goal was to make it make people's jobs easier to accomplish more and that's what we were able to do so you know I'm from a budgetary standpoint we the Secretary of State's office used to get 1.8 million a year from the general fund the legislature would appropriate it and I realized shortly after I took over that we really didn't need it because we had we had enough in our fees coming in so we gave that 1.8 million back to the legislature and said you guys keep it and use it where you want and and you know so I I've always been about efficiency productivity about changing to a digital environment about being fair and honest with my staff you know I think it's it's always I'm only as good as the staff that I have worked and and you know we had good people in the office and I think every time we we had an opening of it if there was a vacancy of someone left we wouldn't just automatically fill it we would look at it and say do we need it do we need it doing what it's doing now or could we use that position for something else so we were always looking at how we could adjust and be better yeah that's cool so we got like four minutes like four minutes left okay so Jim what do you think of the state of the Vermont now we hey we think what the where we headed to is it in a good direction or you feel like what do you think about everything about what's going on right now I Bruce I think that Vermont is in a good place I think we're we're well suited and well set up for climate change as it as it starts to occur and it has been and I think COVID showed us that a lot of people were moving to Vermont and and I think you know we just have to make sure we we don't overspend we don't that we don't overuse some of the functions we need to pay attention more to what the people and families need I think that's important and I think that it's you know you know I think what we've done with elections to make it accessible for as many people as possible I've always said that you know when people talk about voter fraud as is really big across the country right now right well in my opinion the true voter fraud in this country is denying any eligible American the right to vote yeah and you know it really disgusts me to see what's going on around the country but I can't I couldn't deal with what they were doing I had to deal with what I had no doubt about it so you know so now you can deal with some other issues you can look at some broad issues you know some candidates for our national seats in the country are you know our kind of different from how normal traditional ways of say how president exactly you know so and it's kind of interesting you know because a lot of people believe in somebody and hundreds of thousands of people believe in some of the people like who's not traditional in a way how presidents usually are you know which is you know kind of weird to me but you know I always I always say whether it's at city council level or a state Senate or a statewide office or a national office experience matters no doubt about you write about that you write about that experience matters so what else you want to watch it so I'm what you say is gonna see your grand kids after this yeah I mean I you know I've taken the I started my retirement the night before I was retiring I contracted COVID so I made it through three years without it then the night before I retired I got it so I was kind of down and out for about two to three weeks and since that time I just been doing stuff around the house I'm anxious to get outdoors and working in the yard and garden and stuff and I've got you know two grandkids on my side and two grandkids on my my partner side so you know we're really interested in being able to travel as much as possible awesome so we want to do some traveling anyway you need to you know you should maybe you should drive around see check out stuff you know you've been you know you know you've been a Vermont lots you've done a lot for the state and I want to thank you for all the things that you've done for people who you serve you know people like me and in the state is in a good place always has been a good place and I've looked over how many times you have to look over the Secretary of State's website and it's a good order to you know because you can actually check you know find what you're looking for you know you don't have to you know God don't do it I'll forget it you know I mean you actually find what you're looking for go to that left side of you know up top bro you know a lot of work smiling face a lot of work goes into it and my my successor will do will be great she'll she'll she'll be fine like me she was chair of the committee in the in the house that oversaw the Secretary of State's office so Sarah will be very good at what she does going forward I'm you know we periodically meet to have coffee and talk about it and you know I'm I'm really hopeful that things will be in good shape going forward sure and a lot people need to probably come back and ask you questions you know because how to do this how to do that this is the easiest thing they could do if they talked to a person I'm here you're there well you got anything you want to ask her no this has been great you know like I've got over 35 years is in public look good looking fresh and you know nice I'm not the bar that blazer so it's it's just it's been a long time coming but I'm ready yes sir well thank you for being with straight to our show sir and thank you everyone for tuning in to the straight talk with Mancho and see you next time