 I guess we'll call the meeting to order a little later than planned at 6.19 All right I'm gonna go through our agenda for the evening called order permit increase which we have a couple at least a couple of Approved the minutes from our December meeting Barbed-heart subdivision is postponed yet again Robert Franks would like to talk about meetings and recordings and and other topics in that other things than that in topic area Get the administrative officers reports and then hit up our zoning by-law update Once again that we've been working on on a monthly basis and then community comment for anyone that has any additional Topics that they want to share or comments they want to make So welcome everyone. We're doing this as a hybrid meeting both in in person and Zooming so We are are we recording seeing we are we are recording both in zoom and also orca and Orcas are also on zoom just saying them. All right. This is we are recording this in a few different ways So the recordings are accessible in the town office by going in and visiting with the town clerk and assistant town clerk And they can set you up It might be advisable to give them a heads up that you're coming in So they can find the right file to open for you on the on there on the laptop that we use for zoom meetings This is a hybrid meeting So it can be difficult to Be fair and have let everyone have a chance to speak. So please use the Hand raise function on your zoom. It's at the bottom You see a little icon at the bottom of a hand raise when you want to speak and we'll recognize you in the order We see hands go up Now it'll be helpful and then folks here in the building can raise their hands as well I'm to be recognized to speak and I'll keep the flow orderly Let's see We'd like to have Plany Commission members introduce themselves just so everyone that's that's here and on zoom land knows Who they're working with so I'm Dan McKinley. I'm the chair of the planning Commission. I'm Sandy Haas. Julie Martin Greg white David Curtis Dan Hendricks the zoning administrator. Great. Thanks My Christine there is gonna be a little bit late Not too late because we started so late around 6 30 or so will be expecting her So Right, so let's see permit inquiries Let's see Regina. I think you have something that you wanted to bring to our attention Yes, we can everybody hear me. Yes. Yes. Okay. Oh I don't know what happened but Could Karina just pop Den I'm not sure. Okay. So my husband and I we needed we're interested in getting a grant for to put in a brewery and it will not change You know the demographics of Doc's building it would be above it and We had sent in a letter because in order to get the grant we need a letter of support Saying that the town is in agreement with it. I mean, we don't have much information Perhaps if you can still hear me, I can't see anybody all I see is the name Karina So if you can stay here, it's still I can hear you But I know the town can hear me, right? Yes, we can still hear you You're back now That's crazy. I'm just gonna put my husband on and maybe he can clarify some things if anyone had any questions I know I'm just gonna say briefly that we heard that the I guess the fire department or the firehouse was looking to put in a brewery but they something about the waste of the brewery was an issue with septic and And the only other thing we would like to add is that we would be putting it into a tank and then It would be pumped out and then distributed to the local farms if they needed it It's like the grain is is like pure protein But I'm gonna put my husband on and if you have any questions or concerns, you know, you can ask us We're just in the permit kind of Application application right now. So this might have been Vincent. Hello there. How you doing? Happy new year? So do you have any questions or concerns is there an issue in in not approving it or Like I said, we're just in the the planning stage. Mm-hmm. I have a question. Is this primarily for use by the in the bar It is in the bar. Yes, and local restaurants as well if you want to get into that and you know, just doing I'm not doing canning or bottling right now I'm not even looking into getting into that because that requires exterior canning and bottling Once come in and sometimes in the snow in the winter. It's not possible. So it's gonna be slim skin done So it's gonna be for the 16 taps in dogs And as well as local areas as well restaurants and bars and alike And for one of the grabbers to go as well, so We will also, you know, hoping to put in some living area up there or catering hall There's just some of our options. We haven't really, you know, God, we have to get an approval first Yeah, that you know, the town would be interested in letting us do a brewery So that's where we are right now and we're hoping to put some living area up there affordable housing I mean not much maybe a couple of apartments. So we have lots of space up there, but again, the driver Yeah, more intensity leaning across the cost of the beer is going up like the cost of everything as we all know They didn't come back down in the pandemic is going up. So it's a struggle, you know, man And to do more affordable beer or not promoting drink driving in any sort of dimension But more affordable for people to go out and enjoy themselves rather than everybody I mean, the fisheries went up 50% price of beef and then it's just everything went up during the pandemic Ain't coming back down like the cost of diesel has gone as well astronomically. So everything's on the rise I just want to be able to produce cheaper beer, you know, because it helped pass and help everybody out So at least everyone can have a bit of social life Barber them being stuck on. If you want to be stuck on, you can buy a growler kind of a thing And then there's going to be two bathrooms put in as a disabled bathroom downstairs in the back there Which is just a storage space and another bathroom upstairs. So we'll be used as a catering vent space As well as another brewery at the end Kind of a thing. This is kind of all like pears and shooting around And everything would happen within the existing footprint of the building Do you see expanding the edges of the building in any direction No, no, if anything, I have to put a fire escape up, you know, just for health and safety fire issues So that's gonna be the only thing but that could be a nail stairwell going out the back Or the end of the building so to speak our doorway, but the exterior is not going to change. No unless the professional Engineer in terms of answers I've got our protruding i-beams coming out to support the way which isn't after this stage I have to then go to a professional engineer to find that if I don't need a floating floor i-beam system How that gets, you know coming out of the building and might have to have a concrete pants or going into the car park Error with a garden area then I'll encase that in wood if need be if that has to happen as again, you know It's supposed to mean Building and it's just a waste of space actually, but it's beautiful. So that's what I really wanted to do something up there but again waiting on a few Look to see what he's actually needed But this is the first step. Yeah, yeah, you know if the town says okay, then we could you know Yeah, any questions from body commission members That is the space above well in the what was the old barn It's the space in the old above the old barn the second floor of the barn Yes above it's above docks. Yes above docks right where the bar is actually I'll show you there's a big space upstairs I mean, it's 35 foot tall up there. You know, it's just a dog entrance space It's absolutely stunning. It's so beautiful up there. It's just you know, as I said, it's like a six-bar It's a beautiful spot. You know a big screen You know a movie like that and it was something I don't know. It's just you know, it could be a useful space Yeah, I think I Did take a glance at the permit that was hanging and it talks about adding a bedroom and some bathrooms as well as the brook Yeah, so Yeah, so that would require a permit For for that those additions here to the existing building Yeah, and in my mind the brewing of beer would be you know an accessory use of a tavern There wouldn't be something that would require a permit on its own It'd be part of the tavern. Anyone have a different view It's not real different from boiling soup stock So we we were hoping that you know, I had submitted a letter to Julie And it's just a letter of support So I was hoping that someone from the select board or somebody would sign that just to get us started And then we would have to once we get that letter. We have to go to Rutland to some to a different department Show them that the town is okay with it And then we get another support of proof from the nearest biggest town And it's like all these steps that we have to do for for the grant So if everybody's okay with that, maybe you could let us know if someone would sign that letter for us So I guess I have a question for our select board member Because you um, you sent this to us, right? We brought it back To hear figured that we Wanted to make sure that the planning budget was okay with the planning board. It was something that fit in the Parameters of the plan. It was not clear. There was no description of whether or not there was An extension of the building or not, which it appears there's not I saw you also submitted a Um, driveway permit. What are you adding a driveway or what's that all about? There's no drawing about where that's going to be It's just uh, when we get the um, the 2000 gallon hd tank That's going to be pumping out the protein waste that the town's septic system can't handle So we dispose of that properly. It's going to uh, we're going to have to resurface the driveway, you know Because we're going to have to dig a bit cold, uh, basically that's what that was for And also I want to put in some solar but that's going on the roof of the barn And then at some stage I don't think I actually wrote it, but I think I've got to come back in and do it There's going to be a cupboard carpal with solar on there as well. So You know, that's that's a different parameter So that's the only thing about the driveway. It's got to be resurfaced once we dig a big hole in it Yeah, you don't Yeah, so you don't need a permit to resurface an existing driveway that is um, that is more for like a new driveway cut. So Oh, okay. All right. Just say connecting to uh, local road as well. So I'll put that in but anyway, okay, thank you Yeah, we're not sure what we're doing, you know, like this is our first time getting permits and all this stuff So we'll do these and help us So what we could do it. I think the um, what you've proposed what we've seen in writing here, um Would be Permittable under, you know, our current zoning As long as the footprint the size of the building isn't changed Uh, no, and so we could send a note to the select board to that effect then the select board could Sign a letter of support For you If they see if they even if they even fit in there at this point at this point Is it enough to just say that that that your brewery plans Are approved Because I think we need a little bit more on the apartments before we can talk about Yeah, right, I mean The brewery part, yeah, we're thinking would be appropriate, but we'd have to go through Um, you know the permit process for adding a bedroom and bathrooms We're fine. That's fine for now. We're just trying to get the brewery Not the bedroom, it's the bathrooms. Yes, you know, because that's the additional bit for upstairs and all and where the brewery's going to be And then downstairs a bit that's it. Not the bedrooms. It was going to be either either If the breweries would go then that would be We're just adding the brewery. Yeah Yeah, they're from um planning commission perspective. They're good to go on that and we'll um We'll tell dune as much Yeah, thanks. Thank you very much Would they need to do a permit for a carport then if that's a permanent structure? It would be because that would have setback requirements. Yeah, that'd be a separate separate deal, but yeah For now, that's not what you're planning on doing. That's fine. That's We're not applying for that right now. We're just going we just need the brewery letter of support for for right now Okay, all right, so do the select board. We'll take care of that letter. Okay All right All right, you're welcome. Thanks for joining us tonight. Good luck with your grant application. Yep. Thanks very much All right, um, Karina, did you have a Permit question for us Well, I talked to julie Because I and my parents aren't talks about subdividing part of their current land And she said I should attend this meeting to kind of get information on how to fill out this subdivision application And so here I am Okay Um, yeah subdivision application. How many how many lots are you thinking of creating just one Just one off from I mean our parents have one, but then it's just gonna be a small That's that just to be clear that makes two Yeah, you're one additional lot, right? Yes, yeah, when you when you cut it in half it makes two lots Yeah, okay, so that would be up a minor subdivision And you can look at our Subdivision by-laws and it will you know direct you what you can do what you need to do You need road frontage What's our road frontage? 50 So where where I'm carving out I'm sure you're not familiar with my parents land, but up in the woods there's What we call a camp and there's a platform road that goes to it Currently so be that existing road. Obviously would be the town would be a maintained road by obviously us So That's kind of where it would be Okay, so that's not a class 4 town road That it would be the road is not maintained by the town. No Okay, but it is a public road. It's just not maintained And you would your your lot would be along that road Yeah, it'd be the end of it. Okay I don't know if anybody gets snowmobiling and they go on my parents land they go by that Camp building it's basically back area. Yeah. Yeah, okay Minimum acreage for the camp I'm not hearing what you're saying minimum acreage. Oh, yes Minimum acreage for that area that would be conservation residential up at that elevation Maybe yeah pretty sure up by the camp Would be three acre minimum Yeah, that's fine Yeah, and yeah, it would have to be get a survey john Where the new lot is and where it's part of the big existing lot All the adjacent landowners their names and addresses on the on the survey Any utilities don't have to be on the survey. Okay, just the names on a list The way we need the survey Um, does it need to be like an official survey or like stamped or drawn out Yeah, um, yeah an official survey Um, okay by a surveyor that they can create a mylar a plat that can be Um recorded in the town office. Okay Jen generally they make is a paper they make a paper copy And we look at that and then if that's approved then then the mylar is done It doesn't make sense to do the mylar until we look at it Okay Not I think it could have to kind of have a right of way. Okay I'm not understanding it that way. I'm understanding that that that is a town for class four town road. Oh I'm on road. I don't think it's a town road period. Oh, okay. All right. It's a rail. Yeah, so it's not a town road at all So it's so it would need to have a deed a deed right of way um at our and the minimum the minimum Size for the right of way is 30 feet. Obviously the road is never that wide but But the regulations require that you have a 30 foot that it have a 30 foot right of way to I guess that's route 73 Well or No, she's going to be coming off of um, where are you going farm road? Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, it catches to that road. Yeah Yeah, so that's where the axe And then it says zoning which property is located So you said the conservation isn't it? Yeah. Yeah That's in our conservation residential district. So that means it um a minimum lot size is three acres and Yeah, that's the the key there I think that's Really it So I just submit to this application. I can send it to julie with the fee and Does that take about 30 days? To send all the Jason landowners notification So We need to have it So so we meet on the first Tuesday of the month And we need to have it Pretty close to the beginning of the prior month to to meet to meet the Morning I have it has to get to the herald and be in the paper For 15 days ahead and that means getting it in the paper by the end of the first week So so figure figure if you want us to hear it in march We need to have everything by the beginning of february And I think the slow thing for you here is going to be the survey from what i'm hearing from everybody who's trying to get surveys done So that's the place to start So you need this survey before you send application in to the town? Survey the survey is part of the application Got it. Okay Yeah, the survey will show the the the original lot and the new lot created And the acres of those two lots So that's part of the application process And created dependent on what your timeline is It sometimes if if you have time it can be helpful to do a preliminary Visit with us bring your map in and say this is what i'm thinking. How does it look? Do I have everything on there that I need? If you have time to do that it's it can make it a lot easier in the in the long run What if you're in a rush and that and that we could do pretty much at the last minute So in my what I just said if you if you had everything together by the beginning of february If you let us know We can we can look at it at our february meeting and warn it for the march meeting So so do something informal with you and the maps In february and then and then tell all the neighbors and have everybody come in in march for the formal hearing Okay, got it perfect All right, I think that's really it On my end All right Great. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you Okay, you're welcome to stay I I'll stay as long as my children allow me I'll say that All right any other permit inquiries on the line or in the in the uh The meeting room here, okay All right, none Who the um 4998 is Oh, that's Robert's phone. Okay. All right. Did Maya make it into the meeting? Maya's here. Hey, I just got an email that she was trying to get it over a while ago. Okay. She's in and taking minutes Is it minutes? Yes, our next topic is the approval of the minutes from December Any Comments changes anything from your review of the minutes Sandy and I reviewed them shortly after Maya sent them to us Day after the meeting like it was and I reviewed them again today and they look good So we object to what was written about our last statement looking at this letter So The last meaning we told you that the proposed minutes Had proposed minutes had never been filed. Um We kept checking online and you guys filed nothing um And finally you come up with something in December and we're just lucky that late November Right someone told us that you're going to have that meeting And we were a few minutes late. We're dealing with so much in our lives. Um But we told you these minutes are distorted It remind me which minutes you're you're talking about And then we came back and in September Talking about lineman hall and quarry hill. Okay, so We made it real clear to you guys that we didn't agree with your minutes and you know that so We're just confounded And once again your proposed minutes for December are not honestly written so Um You know It's too late. You can't do that at least for what we said. I don't know what anyone else has said about this For december if you have something Substitutive that we can talk about here. Um, you'll change it We can you know, it's what we're doing. That's what we're doing right now as Reviewing those minutes. So if you have something that you think is inaccurate What we keep saying what we said in august what we said in september And what we said again in december in the three minutes that um, we gave us each to speak Which is that the plat map is a representation of legality in the public records since 2003 of lineman hall incorporated That um sucks people into lineman hall shema intentional shema of deceit They used that because all the properties sold at quarry hill They make money off both through claims in their Contract for a site agreement contract Which is based on that plat and it's not you guys keep saying we don't have jurisdiction, but you do And your claim that you don't have jurisdiction is actually a claim that you that's actually exceeding your jurisdiction Because you don't you're exceeding your jurisdiction in ultra virus activity Through claiming no jurisdiction This is really student's job and honestly what we think is dune is being pressured by sandy house and dan mckinley Who have conflicts of interest here because you both were on the 2003 planning board commission? Um, when this went through we don't know what happened back then But we're asking you to to please recuse yourself From the planning board regarding lineman hall and quarry health. This is the zoning administrator's job It's up to dune to deal with so We finally have a letter. I threw it together today in soft ash mad hurt. You know, it's like nine pages It's not what we started before which is very legally intensive We've been so overwhelmed that had chronic Lyme disease We're dealing um with intensive prosa litigation with lineman hall because they sued us like we told you in 2019 And there's too much in our lives to deal with everything we're trying to deal with at once So we haven't finished that letter, but it doesn't really matter Um, when we came in august we gave you jerda for davis of admissible evidence Signed under oath under a penalty of her jury by a long-term real estate lawyer and an architect Um, that makes clear everything we're saying. They're not just allegations. There's very serious violations of law state of vermont local zoning Which goes into lineman hall violation of federal law and other other things But in terms of what relates to dune and the responsibility here Is pretty basic. Um, the platma of lineman hall never submitted it to the planning commission 2003 And that was very intentionally done. Um, there's no grandfathering here because nothing was that they were illegal before And what happened before then with a hippie calm human at quarry hill Totally different thing, but once they wanted to make it into an official quarry hill development Of lineman hall incorporated You could they could not just put this flat in there and put it out as a representation Of legality. You can't do that kind of thing with illustrations of duplexes Which we relied upon in buying 2010 and 2019 and we've been really hurt by that If they I'm gonna So something that you would like changed in the minutes is to represent that lineman hall plat Is that our message is that it's a plat That's a representation of legality in the public record that pulls people into to buy a quarry hill To get sucked into their sheen of deceit Um, and that it needs to be removed Specifically as regards our house. If you look at things, there's two changes of use That are shown on the map relative to the grand list. There was never in the tony does attorney dyslorea Apa david there's no permit for any duplexes up at quarry hill In 2003 that plat map Showed a division in two buildings nh 35 3 4 5 0 7 And uh nh 3 4 nh 3 4 5 1 2 Now on the plat map all the numbers are mixed up. It's nh 3 5 4 Now that's a that's a my that's a nice if I could interrupt you, um, please Is is this information in the letter you have there now that there's there's Like I said, it's really great if we could have that because this is too much information for me This is really for today. What the change of uses is a uh, it's a violation that can't be grandfathered And none of this can be grandfathered the plat can't be grandfathered to have that letter now and be able to understand a little bit better Yeah, um, and if we but again we make clear about it if we have to get our attorney And um to understand it then we will um, I know this is To give us a letter. We have you know, I mean this isn't the letter we were writing. That's very legal But it's it's good and there's we gave you copies again of all these affidavits So are these multiple copies of the same letter? Um, yeah, if other people won't copies But it's mainly above all for you do it because you're the zoning administrator Yeah, there's a letter and then there's affidavits Yeah, the affidavit I've got a hand raised here. Um, then I'll go to you Robert did you have your hand raised would you like to speak on this? Yeah, I I would like to speak on a number of things Well, we're talking about the minutes right now. So, um, Is there something um Uh about approving the December minutes that you want to speak on And I'm sorry. I can't hear you Can you hear me now Robert? Yeah, go on Yeah, the top again hand is the December minutes. We are going to um Review and approve those Is there something specific about the December minutes that you'd like to speak to right now? I know there are other issues that you want to talk about And Dan, I'm sorry. You're you're you're underwater. I I can't hear you Hmm Um, yeah, I'm not sure why Robert. Um, Maya. Can you hear me? Okay. Let me test our see if our microphone's working. Okay Um, I can hear you sometimes Sometimes Muffled after a while you talk is clear and then it goes muffled Yeah, so sometimes doesn't work for public meetings It might be the one difference No, that's it. That's it. Okay. Could these be interfering at all with Um, we have work on microphones here. The only thing would be the wireless, but uh This is Kristen. I can hear you guys great. I had a hard time hearing genie speak and um the Audience but as for you guys at the table, I can hear you good Thank you Okay All right, I'll try Maybe someone else's voice might be Robert the the question that we are right now looking very specifically at the december minutes And we heard from janine. She doesn't like what we said in the december minutes Do you have any comments on the december minutes before we take a vote to approve them? Yes, I have very serious and dire concerns regarding the minutes from august No, we're talking No, no, no The the town of rochester and the people that supposedly approved minutes are in Delinquency august, september, october and november Were delinquent and now you're you're putting pressure on me To say do you have any comments about december? The december minutes I We're not we're not working on december. Yes, we are that is the that is the agenda item that is on the table at this moment retroactively There are derelicts of duty For august, september october and november. Yes, robert You are on the agenda and you we will hear from you and you will have an opportunity to talk about that Right now we are on the issue of approving the december minutes They have been read by everyone on the board Janine has spoken and said what she doesn't like about them. Do you have anything specific to the words in the december minutes that you would like to say right now before we vote? Yes, they've been censured How so robert? I brought up two Of the same issues in during two meetings listening to all of you guys changing your bylaws and rewriting the rules of rochester and permitting and It's not working out so How do you want to move forward with you? So is there something in the minutes that you would have us Consider changing Well, I brought up. I'm going to repeat myself dan I brought up the same subject For two planning and zoning board meetings and the minutes aren't included on the website Why is that? And ironically Isn't it funny that uh, janine and uh bruce and other concerned residents of rochester Have the same thing in common So So Robert we're talking just about december And we we know that the minutes from October november september. We're late. We're talking about december The minutes are not a a transcript of our meeting they are just a summary of what was discussed High points are noted if There's something in there that we missed. Please let us know otherwise So we're ready to take a vote here on whether we're going to Approve these again, and thank you. You're very well spoken man but During the last planning and zoning board meeting the entire board Wholesale approvals for minutes for august september october november Can you tell me what line item on the agenda in august was approved point of order chairman Hang on second robert. Yeah point of order I'd like to remind us of robert's rules of order that public comment is only allowed for three minutes And they should be stopped thank you okay, um Uh christie just noted that um, you know three minutes is what we're allowing folks to speak On a topic. We had plenty of time to tell us No, no, no, no, no. Yes, sir. This is like public comment No, and tell christie. She should revisit her open meeting laws Yeah, robert we need to we need to move on if you don't have anything specific I know that maybe there's something in there that that something you said in the december meeting that didn't get recorded but it was uh Not critical to the notes. It wasn't a decision around that so it's critical to the town Yeah Yeah, if you don't have anything specific What that actually was And then we can't can make any suggestions. I just it just Right to you. What is specific? I brought up two of the same Issues and the minutes do not reflect what I presented to your board And the person in charge of the minutes So why why is why are the why are my comments and issues? Not in the minutes I don't know how to move forward robert. I don't know. I don't know what it is. You said you keep saying you brought something up twice Um, and I don't know what that is. So I don't know whether it was substantive enough to The uh planning and zoning board you should know What issues I brought up twice in a row and whoever controls the minutes sensitive to them Hey, you brought up a bunch of things. I don't know what it is that that you wanted included that that I can't remember robert, oh We're gonna we're gonna move on robert and um, we're gonna have a take a vote here on whether to approve the minutes or not Um, and we'll continue to do the best we can with our minutes Um As I told you in a few emails if there's something specific that you think is missing when the draft Draft notes come out. Please let me know. I have a question dad. I have a question According to quick robert According to the open meeting rules of vermont When a meeting adjourns How many days does the town have To list the five robert five robert. We talked about this you and I on the phone and through the emails Five five days in august Equal four months. Yeah. Yeah, we're admitting that the august september october didn't work out well robert So we're gonna move on we're gonna take a vote here on the minutes and thank you for your interest and the efficiency of our Our um planning commission here and we'll continue to strive to get our notes accurate as well as on time And I think we have a as you and I have talked over the phone and through email We have a plan to do that with maya as our clerk Um, and then you've got an agenda item where we can talk more about again. Thank you Um, I'm still on the agenda to speak on very serious other concerns. You bet. You bet. I got you on the agenda Okay, uh, can I have a motion on the uh, so move move to accept the emotions up the minutes as been Moved the minutes. Yeah prove the minutes has written all in favor. Hi. Hi. Okay. There's post no post We're gonna change our the parts In what we stated, correct? Yeah, um, we don't have enough information that the information that you just provide us are going to give us The opportunity to know and understand what what it is. You're asking us Well, we told you like you need to read our letter then We clearly don't have enough time, but We object to the august september and december minutes. There's just no duplex up there. There's no duplex And we're gonna learn that we read your letter It's not just the duplex. It's none of it's legal And we're gonna come to that understanding through reading your letter And then we'll be able to make some some sort of movement forward. Well, like I said, I mean How many months that we've been requesting for you to write clearly what you're asking So now we now we have that in hand. Yeah, and they didn't have that But it's a better handbook states that all we have to do is a verbal Talk about what it is. Well, it's actually very simple. It's not clear what it is very simple We asked for the for the for the plat map to be taken out of the land records by lineman paul Okay, and have there be no of this because there is no plat map Okay, we're gonna move forward We are we're gonna Attend to to your letter there and your concerns and I think we've got something to work with now We have some communication Yes, particularly from doing Okay, jimmy. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming again and thanks for bringing the letter. I think That'll help us move forward All right, um Our next agenda topic which we've had monthly for a few months is um bar of darts subdivision And we're going to postpone that one more time, but she is working on a on a map She has a survey and I believe that we will be able to take it up formally end of the end of February Okay, great. Looking forward to that Our next agenda topic is um one um Suggested by robert franks. Um, and I condensed the topic into basically our meetings and recordings um, there was a lot of other Points in robert's email when he requested the The agenda topic and I'm gonna I'm gonna go over those but I didn't want to put them all in our in our agenda here Just so I'm gonna give some preamble to this because robert and I have been talking quite a bit emailing phone calls But the rest of the planning commission has not been involved say for a couple of things that I had to talk with um sandy about um so We've been emailing I don't know two or four times a week and and had one nice phone call that was about an hour talking about the minutes And talking about the minutes from august september october, which were never completed Drafted never completed Never approved we talked about that and at the same time robert and I were talking about that We were working on the solution because we weren't happy about that either We know that we were required to get them Through the public within five days at least a draft and we weren't meeting that that Open meeting law requirements. So we've been working on something and we went to the town to Who talk about hiring a clerk to help us with meeting notes? Because the select board had approved us our budget for um For a clerk to help us with the meeting notes. So we had that going for us. We just hadn't moved on it and Then we did at the same time robert was and I were talking about this. So When I talked with robert, he was made aware that we had um my uh New route as was going to be our um our clerk and who are minutes and that we would strive to get those To the public and posted By within five days And in december, I think we beat that We did it quicker than that, but we didn't meet that and we'll continue to strive to do that And to make them the minutes as complete as as necessary. They're not a transcript of The meeting or of the recording But they hit the high points the topics that were discussed Decisions that were made and action items that are That are that are asked for among us on the planning commission We weren't happy about not meeting the getting all those notes On the website available to the public and that's the chair I take responsibility for for that I didn't push on that and make that happen and I could have done more. So So we are doing a little bit better a lot better on that Robert and I also talked about concerns about recording The meetings and making people aware that meetings are being recorded and introducing who was On the planning commission. So we've been doing that as well And he had some good suggestions there. We're following those And Recordings are not required by law, but since we've been doing these meetings through zoom since Covid I'll say We thought we might as well good service to the community to record it since we're doing them on zoom So we've been doing that. I don't know which of the meetings over the past two and a half years have been recorded I don't know if it's been all of them But if there are meetings that folks want to look at the recording that orca hasn't Recorded then they can go to the town clerk and see if it's available Um I don't look at the the recordings So I don't really know How many meetings are complete and in there? I know that at times we've had technical challenges and we've stopped recording Or maybe we didn't record at all. I don't know Most recently Robert asked several questions leading up to this Um Agenda item and I had to go through those point by point Robert just because I know you Didn't think that the the agenda top guy gave really gave credence to all that Questions you had So they were primarily about the us bringing on a clerk to help with the with the notes He wanted to know what mediums were used to advertise this position And the position was not advertised Um because we went to the Town clerk and said how do we go about excuse me? Yes, Robert. Hello Yes, Robert I think we should I think I think we should Hold from your Pontification Before I list what I'm concerned about Okay, I'm going to finish the Topic that you brought to us and answer the questions you had in your letter and then then you can go forward So Maya was already a town employee working for the library. So we were able to use the budget we had to add to her hours To serve as the clerk on the hourly rate you asked about we've had budgeted $15 an hour in our budget and that's Available and open to the public to see that There was we did not do a job description, which you asked about recording the minutes the requirement is that Maya get those to us within a day or two after the meeting so we can fulfill our five-day Obligation since we didn't advertise there were no candidates. He asked about how many candidates there were And then the date hired. I don't know when the library or the town Hired Maya That might be a question for the town clerk and the total cost For the clerk at $15 an hour for about four hours a month for the next six months about 360 dollars And I don't know you asked about other benefits. I don't know about those. You'd have to talk with the Select board about any benefit packages that town employees get So those are the topics we've been talking about and and answer to the questions that you raised Robert. So Um So what else what do you want to do any clarification on any of that or or either you have additional questions comments Still there Robert. I see your hand is up Well, yeah, I'm here. I'll be here in the midnight Okay Do you have any additional questions or anything that I that I missed regarding your questions about? Our clerk I'm addressed as A participant in the meeting Yeah, okay, your hand is up. So go ahead Well, let's make this real clear I've been discriminated Because I don't live in Rochester. I live in Bethel And I'm just going to give you a quote Since you guys have reflected on to the select board Leslie On we get recorded work of media Is captured saying Kristen just connect him That way we don't have to listen to her Does anyone Lee is Hello Yeah, Robert the last word or you said there you said does anyone believe But no, I didn't say does anyone believe I said does anyone in the room know who Leslie is Well, I just asked Yeah, I do And and who is who is who is Leslie? Can you let the other folks that don't know can you tell them? I think it would be more proper for you to say who Leslie is The chair of the select board Right Okay, so think about that quote Kristen disconnected him So we don't have to listen to her And Kristen obeyed dudes Leslie's Command that's a totally improper Robert do you have some do you have some Questions about the planning commission because we're we're I'm not able to address anything that happened That uh, so we're meeting we'll wait a second Uh, this is you You Went back to the select board sami haas mentioned the select board and I'm mentioning the select board So now you're demanding that I focus on the planning and zoning board meeting That's where we are. So would you like me to continue? Yes, if you continue, but It would be helpful if it was about the the planning commission. That's what we're here to discuss And the topics just mentioned Well Let me just say this I am of the people of the state of vermont And we the people of the united states of america and I am here with concerns for the rights of our people And I could be calling in from canton and jersey And I will be discriminated against so this is the topic where we started Yeah Mike want to think about he's an agenda Because there is new land owners owners That have been watching these videos And saying you know what? I don't want to be part of the town because of any executive board member of the planning and zoning board member of board Is more In incriminating To the person that just wants to open a brewery above dr. Abbott He won't get his permit till next year So if if if Dan And I don't well. I'm going to ask a question Who are the people that approve the minutes of any planning and zoning board meeting top three the entire planning commission approves we Have a motion to approve and then we vote on it. So it's all of us So you're saying everyone included sitting in the room Is guilty of a delinquency from august september october november Um, no, I would take that responsibility Robert. That's the chair Well How long have you been the chair of this? planning and zoning board Gosh, um, I don't know. He's been a long time and he does a very good job Five or seven years. Maybe I don't know Robert Well, do you not know the importance of minutes that the public is waiting for? I Other people That are asking for permits and requesting permits Are putting their precious lives on the on the on the line waiting for You and the rest of the team To approve a financial and economic development in the town of Rochester Excuse me. I'm going to jump in here for just a minute and say that what gets reported in the minutes Has not is not Is not the permit the permit process goes forward with the administrator make reviewing the permits And granting them and he reports those to us and they get sent out And if the minutes haven't been posted that does not mean that somebody did not get a permit The same is true of subdivisions when we have a worn subdivision We hear it we decide it and the decision goes out if the minutes are late that has no impact on those those Robert, you don't frankly know what you're talking about here Standing I think you should reflect on what you just said So let's go back or sammy. I'll ask this question to you How long have you been a board member of the planning and zoning board of Rochester remote since march of 1982 Robert we're going to give this Robert we have some more work we ought to do tonight. So we're going to give us a few more minutes And we understand your Didn't are concerned about the minutes not coming out. We've Addressed that and we are going to do better and we are doing better so again Sandy just admitted that she's been a board member since 1992 And she's delinquent in making certain that the minutes from August, September, October, November Why doesn't she take why didn't she take responsibility to say Hey, Dan, we have a problem. Let me share this. She did Robert and then she did Whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe this will orient Maybe this will my comment next will orient people. Okay. I attended by zoom A planning and zoning board meeting dan. I mentioned this to you. I said, I don't know why I just decided, you know, I'll just watch this meeting so The meeting ends in adjourns and then four days five days later. I called Julie in the town clerk's office And this is very important for Sandy haas the former state representative that probably crafted or was included in crafting a lot of these laws Julie said to me Robert I was just looking at October or November, I think it was October and Julie said Robert I've been warning the planning and zoning board people to manage their minutes And I said, okay, I'm you know, I know I'm if the meeting was Tuesday night I was calling on Friday, which was like three or four days So then I checked and then I realized August, September, October and no they were they weren't there How in God's world Can a person on the board of a planning and zoning board meeting for almost 30 years Not take responsibility To say hey dad, we need to get the minutes up. I don't really care what the minutes are So there's a real dysfunction Okay, thanks Robert. Thanks for that feedback and and we we we know that that happened And you and I have talked about it and we know that it was not good And we've made some changes and you know about those and did you look at our December minutes when they came out? They were on time if not early Well, we're moving forward Robert We're moving forward and we're going to wrap this up. You've had plenty of time to Talk about your concerns. Is there something specific you want us to do That we're not doing now that we didn't do in December with our minutes And then we'll then we'll close this topic Well, I'm I'm surprised that the herald isn't there tonight or the mountain times or anyone else Uh, tim Collabro ignored my request to send a reporter in And that's very suspicious By the way, they're the official newspaper of Rochester He ignored I spent Almost 40 minutes with Janet his secretary on Friday Trying to find anything to do with Maya's hiring At this moment Maya if you didn't hot if you didn't follow State municipal hiring rules and laws Robert Robert Robert, I'm gonna stop you right there I'm going to stop you right there. This is not a time for you to address Maya or anything that she's doing You address me if you want to talk about Anything about Maya, so we're going to wrap this up and we're going to move forward with our Updates on our planning commission. I thank you for joining. I'll continue to answer your emails And I would like you to just watch what we're doing and see that we're doing our minutes Correctly. We're getting them done on time And if there are future concerns, we'll we'll keep emailing And I've been responsive to you And uh, well that doesn't matter to us that you're a Bethel resident and state statutes And it doesn't matter that you're a Bethel resident. You know that So we'll continue the relationship that we have So feel free to email me Well, I would recommend that everyone present tonight look into state municipal hiring And uh, if Maya's taken minutes this evening, they're null and void Okay, thank you Robert. We're going to move on to our next next topic Is our updating our Oh, no next topic is um our administrative officer report Got anything for us, dude? Um, this is what we already talked about with the Huntington house Oh, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, and so there's um, even though they're not doing a um Any change in the footprint it's um, I think that Is it really going to change of Bruce's use? It's an expansion of the permit. Is there bedrooms on the bedroom? It does say that they clicked Bedroom bathroom other nano brewery with additional event space So I would suggest that you be clear about what you're what you're approving and what you're not approving. Yeah Did they not just say in that conversation? I think there's two things going on there. They're looking for students do the brewery They would move something else But I think what they're looking for noon initially is just support letter for the grant for the grant, right? And that's brewery only right and if that goes forward It sounded like they wouldn't move forward with the other. Yeah, that's what I agree. Yeah, excuse me for a minute. Maya has a question Oh go ahead Maya Hi, I cannot hear anyone except sandy and occasionally dan mostly dan So I can't hear what dunes talking about. I heard him say something about a footprint I have no idea what Greg and jade and christine were just talking about Okay, so so dune uh dune beck was asked to mint to give an administrator's report And he basically said that the administrator's report was the request from the huntington house, which we heard earlier Thank you Okay, thanks for checking in you're doing a very good job. Yes. Yes, ma'am And my I'm really sorry that we didn't that we didn't advertise trying to find somebody to work three or four hours a month Yeah Thank you. So back to this question then it this um, did you come around with So you can um, I'll should pick that up. Can you hear better now, Maya? Hello Yeah, thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. That's perfect I need to be over there because that's going to show me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I guess the question is to What extent do they need a permit if they're just expanding their um their business Of running a tavern and expanding it to do a brewery I mean their real request is a letter of support from the town and that way we that's why we Recommended they bring it to the planning board to clarify if you know if that was acceptable or not So I I go back and forth about this if if it was exclusively for the use in the of their own bar I would say that it was part of their business because he's talking about about selling it to others I think maybe it is a change of use, but I'll that's just some sort of business within the business then at that point I mean Is whether it's a change of use of the property? and I and I Yeah, like I said if it was exclusive to the bar that exists it would be accessory. Yeah Completely right. That's good. That's a good distinction and is there a threshold is it's primarily for the use at the bar? and you know I mean Does I guess what does it hurt to just give him a change of use permit? In case he decides to sell Well, and particularly because he wants to he says he's going to sell it to you know another bar Another to a restaurant. So that that covers the And and but I do think I do think we want to To document that they say that they're going to take their Their waste the waste off site by tanks. I think that's not that's part of it into the town That's part of the application and I think we should treat that as as a commitment that they've made. Yeah And Can If it's a change of use we do a change of use Permit we can It's just another box to check off for other than They're saying they clicked off renovation addition Not change of use Because they're renovating Yeah Well, is that technically just Storage at this point? I mean, yeah so But it is a little bit different right if they're selling their whole sale That's a different than a retail restaurant business and bar. Yeah But it's light manufacturing Yeah, that's allowable in that in that zone. Yeah I think they're safer getting their change of use permitted and they're not hamstrung No additional hoops for the change of use permit Approved that it's allowable in that zone and um And we put the conditions that they're The waste from the brewery does not go into the town septic that they're putting in a Undo a new bank to that will be pumped Does that will make Terry happy? On the adding bedrooms, how are we addressing that with our septic? That's not on that application. Well, they did check that but it sounds like they were just checking all the boxes I asked them about that and they said that was later. So I think I think I think I would put withdrawal on that Because that's what they told us Bedrooms and bathrooms. That was kind of like plan B. Yeah bathroom. No, they would be well. Well, you can have bathrooms. It's it's You can have one bedroom and 12 bathrooms But you can't have 12 bedrooms That don't work very well It's crazy, but it's the bedrooms that drive it under state law Because that's where the people are right, but that's what tries tries out People don't sleep in their toilets usually it's been seen Okay, good. Have the other one. Yes All right, it's the right time of year Thanks to you Regarding Janine and Bruce's letter there I'm not sure how to proceed. I mean for me I don't know if I'm going to understand the legalese and all the stuff that's in there. What yeah, I think there's a couple copies. Do you want one? I'll take one. I'll read it, but I guess maybe I'll read it and then I'll say Any time lawyer should be able to It's under Our jurisdiction. This sounds like this is more of a legal Well, let me tell you I went I looked at the map. So so number one Number one any of us can have a survey done of our property and record a survey Okay, the fact that you're recording a survey doesn't require anything from this board What's required from this board is if you want to have you want to take the property that you have And put a new line in it that we call that a subdivision and we look at that Lyman hall did Not subdivide the property I understand that there are arguments that maybe they should have but they but there was no subdivision People do not own their land up there It's like it's like building a cabin in the in the on on forest service land and paying a lease of this It's more like a trailer park Or like a trailer park. Yes. Yes. So They technically not even own the land on which the building sits So yes, Lyman hall Had a serve a perimeter survey done of its property And they recorded it and that's what they're complaining about and and it shows it shows the houses And I think it shows Maybe some some dedicated land that you get to use with the house that you're renting But it's all Lyman hall property. If you look at the grand list, it says no land You know structure. No, I'm just going to show the lots. It's very similar to the As you say anyone can do that and just any yes and and so to what what they're trying to say Is that is that the map should the survey should be removed because because We didn't we we didn't approve it But we didn't have to so it's fine Why is it even Recorded or or filed or well, um What I know is all second hand But there was after Irving died there was a Dispute between the airs Irving's airs And the residents the rest of the residents and that ended up in a lawsuit The lawsuit was either mediated or arbitrated and I don't remember which I think it was mediated and the settlement was this agreement that people would would have Ownership rights and structures, which they hadn't had before And that Lyman hall or you know aka fisk Um would continue to own all of the land that was that was and and you know One of the one of the affidavits that they gave us last summer is from one of the residents who didn't like the settlement Well, you know, I there were I don't know how many people were living up there at the time I was I got my information from Peter Riley But because he was one of the residents represented as a whole By someone Oh, yeah, okay. So then they were all they all entered into that agreement together then Yeah, so bottom line in one sentence. What are they asking to remove that map? Uh We're not sure there's a lot of stuff that I I'm not sure that that is that is one of the things They they want us to declare it an illegal subdivision I think but no, I know that's why I'm that's why I'm through this. That's why we need the letter. Is there another copy? If there aren't already you're welcome to have Oh Three copies I guess look go ahead Again, you could read you could have one and then just get it to me So My for the for the minutes, I think it's appropriate to just say that we that we're trying to figure out what the problem is here and much of If if there is a legal opinion to be given it shouldn't be from me I can so put it that way. I'm just telling you I'm just telling everybody what I remember about the situation So bottom line too if people own the homes up there, they just don't own any They can sell their house. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just like in the trailer park. Yeah, it's a it's a trail park The same kind of model I'd prefer to think of four service Four service I missed I missed that Onward on the agenda. All right. Good thing. We didn't have sarah sitting here Of course there's a lot of notes back. Yeah, so here we are Like to work on this for about a half an hour maybe 45 minutes If we can get go that long Using sarah did a lot of work here And she sort of gave us a roadmap to the changes that she was Suggesting so what I'd like to do is kind of go through what she What she proposed through the definitions and then the uses The exemptions and then go through each of the districts And then the standards and we'll see how far we can get All of it Covered it all That's why it takes us so long to do it Yeah I think the documents really show through from start to end because Following her questions I don't know if that would be more appropriate Let's start working through the document I mean we can try I try to follow her comments and questions and it's very difficult. Yeah Yeah, that did bounce a little bit for me But I think it'll work if we go through these sections For me you know going through the definitions first makes a lot of sense And then when you get to those topics right you have a background from I get that part but Besides definitions for me, it was just easy to start the beginning of the document Well, and I found for the uses I finally found it easiest just to work with this thing that she had done which she did as a separate As a separate thing Because I couldn't I I couldn't go back and forth easily from one place but this this has all and then and then well We're not there yet, but but then I went through and tried to write in some uses that other towns had that we haven't I'm nervous about trying to think of everything, but yeah, but let's start with definitely All right, let's start with definitions Let's go Does Dune need to stay for a while? Dune we're going to be going through This document As best we can I I think it's great if he can stay. Oh, yeah, but okay. He is a busy man. Okay continue on All right, so um primary and secondary Retail is one of the the early questions we have back from when we changed our our town plan And she used the definitions from the regional plan They looked okay to me and I'll note that Secondary retail included a maximum of 4,000 square feet Yeah A lot for secondary what page? It's on page 78 Starting at the bottom and working our way out Working on her unfortunately, that's her notes. So she she did it through her notes. So If you have that Sandy maybe I can go to the definitions we can oh and then come back Let's just go. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I guess that would be easier for folks What would be the most helpful at this moment going through Um alphabetically with you know just where she has track changes She has Definitions Okay, yeah, accessory dwelling unit So it'll be Let's just go through each one that she's got changes if anyone has something speak up if not I'll give it a second and then I'll move on the next one Accessory dwelling unit no comments Okay So now we're Are you following Dave? I'm uh, I'm watching some squirrely action over here Squirrely or Squirrely actually Being that on the non-technical individual there Do you want to have anything on accessory dwelling unit? Go right through anything that she's got edits on So you're going I'm on page 57 everybody there yet I don't want to read No, no I don't need to say that there in here Would you like me to give you a bulletin? You know what? No, it's okay I mean you can have all of this I don't want to block your view No, I can't see anything in here Let's go ahead and do it Sorry, we're okay You guys ready? I'm gonna use the control f function which is To find the accessory dwelling unit Find what we need, yeah I hope it works Thank you Are you there? Yeah, I was on the phone Yeah, okay Not hearing anything on accessory dwelling unit accessory on-farm business Anything there? Just some comments on the accessory structure Or use Anything there? If If someone could give us a page number I'll move 57 Okay, thank you Track changes, copy Thank you No worries, no worries I don't know We've got a lot of telecommunications on page 57 He's got to go look up definitions He's starting right at the section called definitions The pages were a little funky too from what she said things were, they weren't I'm not sure why that happened So, just go scroll all the way down to definitions Appreciate the patience Patience are what we do Patience is I'm gonna be a patient I know Sarah's big screen Yeah Here we go All right, I'm down to affordable housing It's nice They added the definition Okay, great Good, I think I had some The close, you and the A's We are Something that actually says a word that you scroll down One of the ones that she mentioned was a definition for boarding house Building, providing two or more lodging units that are not equipped to serve as independent dwelling units That are rented to residents for periods of 30 or more consecutive days I had a question about that How is that different How are we distinguished It's very close to the definition of group home Group home is a group home is a statutory thing Disabled for disabled I have a question about that I don't think we can exclude them She got the definition from one place but I think that there's a law that we have to let them be everywhere That's a question I have for her Good The question I had for there is explain the 30 consecutive days Does that mean a person stays for 30 days If it's less than 30 days it's not a boarding house, it's a lodging She did the lodging and the short-term rental and boarding house So a boarding house is where you would be living with somebody as opposed to coming for a week with your family A lodging unit they're just referring to a room or potentially a room and a bath Yeah That could be the same for a boarding house Yeah, they're not apartments They're not equipped to serve as independent dwelling units So that's the boarding house is a longer-term stay versus lodging a room is a shorter-term stay Is that the distinction? I mean there's a long-term lodging too Well, but I think at that point it probably has a kitchen at it Yeah, you're right 30 or more consecutive you can stay in a lodging for 30 or more consecutive days You can, but it's not the norm The norm Good I understand it It's fine Campground was another used to be intended to be used for temporary occupancy by two or more tents recreational vehicles or other movable dwellings I was curious what the state defined it as and theirs is four sites Four or more sites Um I think two sites are good It means you can let your college kid your son's college friend's campers Here's the new thing People are here being there lots for campers to come and stay on Oh So one is okay and two is Yeah, number three on this one But I mean that would be the concept here But I'm not against it Do we like that? Um Are you trying to say how do you categorize that? I'm thinking, well Yeah, it's a new sensor like the tenter thing that we approved But I was thinking three and then once it gets to four and then it's state State definition Yeah Well, designating something as a campground here, what are we trying to regulate? I mean if it's just one, it's your friend They're just there for however Right What's for exactly Land use or temporary Land use are intended to be used for temporary occupancy by two or more tents To me campground is commercial operation and that would include an Airbnb campground People always And you said the state once they get to four they have to apply for a permit So then the key is there triggers some requirement to handle some other jurisdiction Water and sewer and some other things some other public safety things So I mean I'm fine with two I just Well two gives us whatever to say something about it if it's more or I guess if it's three but once it goes to four then we don't have to worry I'm not sure you Just trying to determine what number we want to have to either allow us to say something or not have to worry about it So we're on the definition right here How many Does the definition work okay for folks I like the two I guess more wiggle is better, right This doesn't restrict the number occupancy by two or more tents Somewhere we'll talk about them Yeah, dense recreational vehicles or other movable dwellings Okay We're good with the definition two or more Alright Scrolling down commercial use I had a question on that one Okay Is any building structure or land which is used for business or service and is conducted for financial gain but excluding at home occupation home industry home business or industrial My question is why is industrial not commercial I just think we should delete that Are we just delete or industrial Unless It's home industry What is home industry Excluding We can scroll down to that No, no, but it's in the commercial use Excluding I don't know why we would exclude Oh, okay Industrial from commercial use Well because we define it separately Yeah, I agree Get rid of it It's weird how If she's saying that we're not counting it there, it's not clear to me I don't know She said it was just their standard language Yeah, I know Are all these covered by other They're all covered by other We have them as definitions Somewhere else in there So they're So they're trying to cover I just have My would you just show Show the put or industrial And this is The definition of commercial Put or industrial In quotes with a question mark Because it doesn't Seems to be hanging there Yeah Okay Yeah Contractor yard Nice addition An area owned Controller operated by a contractor The parking Maintenance or storage of large Equipment vehicles or other materials Commonly used in the individual Contractors type of business Components of which may include Storage of scrap materials for repair Maintenance of contractors Equipment and buildings or structures Such as offices and repair facilities AK Harvest Harvest That was the one that came to my mind Smith I like having this in here And I think it's a good description Of what we've kind of seen in places I have questions about Where we're prohibiting it And allowing it Yeah So we're supposed to be letting you know There's someone marking these down Well, I think as long as we're happy We're going with what she has Yeah, I think we tell her when we want To change But like you said, we're going to have to Follow that up with where we like it And where we don't And what our engagement are And the district uses will Oh, yeah, the way All right, dwelling unit I didn't have any questions About that Anybody? Dwelling Dwelling multiple family I didn't have any questions about that Or single family So I did have a question Wait, let's see I can find this Maybe it's Maybe it's not here There is a We had talked about She didn't like that we take Duplex Anyway, do we all agree That two units Is multifamily Or do we want to distinguish between A duplex and a multifamily Sometimes do And I'm not sure The only difference would be The building wasn't your family I mean, you know But as far as the designation of the building There's single family And there's more Yeah, I'm trying It's just multifamily I thought we had to Quantify it with how many units We allow in different districts I'm not quite sure where this goes Because it comes up in a couple of places But just make a note That we all agreed last month We want multifamily To include duplexes Yeah, that's where it is She has dwelling multifamily And it says three or more That's where it is Hey, Robert, do you have a comment On our zoning? The comment is pretty succinct I don't think that Sandy Haas Or the board should be making decisions With the public's decisions When you cannot manage your own Minutes for four months Thanks, Robert We've gone beyond The discussion of the minutes And we're working on the Zoning changes Wait a second Robert, just to be clear We are working on a draft Of a proposed amendment That is going to be Warned to the entire town And there will be a public hearing On the draft That we recommend So all the decisions that We're hearing tonight Are about a rough draft Well, I don't really Care about the content Of what you guys are discussing But the delinquency Of you and Dan And anyone else In an executive position Managing minutes To be dismissed Period You can go on until 10 or 11 o'clock Figuring out what you're going to do But it's a major concern For a lot of people In Rochester You, Sandy Haas And Dan McKinley Might not realize How many people are aware Of this default Of four months of minutes Of having Well, they were Updated But Sandy, I can ask you Questions on The Agenda for August, September, October, November Hey, Robert. I am going to cut you off Robert, this is not the topic We're working on. I don't think it's proper For Dan McKinley And Sandy Haas To be making decisions When you guys cannot manage your minutes Thanks for that feedback, Robert We're going to move on And continue To do our edits On the zoning Okay, so We noted that we wanted that multifamily To be two dwellings Or more scrolling down Earth resource Extraction Nothing there Family child care Anyone have anything there? No, I thought that looked good, actually Good Farming Julie, did we get it? Did we define farming right? Good Farm structure I don't have anything on that I'm going to keep scrolling Forestry practices Actually, I'm so sorry Can we go back to farming? Yes, we can Back to the land I just found The wording in A A little weird The cultivation or other use of land For growing food And then it goes I don't know The other use just sounded weird To me Fiber trees Technically farming Or raising Because then it kind of goes into the old I don't know What is the other use there? Other use The other use of growing food Raising Cultivating Raising Thank you Raising or grazing Thank you Forestry practices I didn't have anything You'd be the person to have that Some experience Just a little bit Okay I'm scrolling along group poem It's one she asked us to Look at A drug addiction considered disability It is I'm so sorry I throw down page numbers Practices Do we think it's appropriate to include the HTTP in the bylaws Knowing that they might change In part one In the forestry practices I just Just as a These are available at HTTPS So the link changes Or Is that We do a lot of it though Which too We don't Directly to the statues I think it's great I think it's great I just wonder What would be an alternative To Still people to go to Vermont.gov Forest box recreation website Or something They could be For a while Okay I think it's more helpful to have the HTTPS I'd never seen it before I haven't seen it in other places So that was my question We're on forestry practices Page Page 70 Oh the link Oh I see Oh Oh I see If that ever changes Well the advantage of Having it in there is the rules change You get an updated version of the rules Could Could we do both Could we say these The rules can be Found at Vermont.gov As of this date This is the current This is the current address address So what would that do Then if they went to that address And it's not there Well it would say Kind of Do the general This can be found at the Vermont Vermont state website Under the forest Forest parks Forest parks and migration As of 2023 Here's my concern about that I've been to this website Without a lot of information It's impossible to drill down To find what you're looking for So to me it's the risk of them Not finding it Giving them a general link Is higher than the risk Of the forestry department Changing the address Changing the link We're suggesting that we do both That we include the specific link But also say Or we could just say that The rules are available at this Website Up to date As of January Well this This whole document is going to have An effective date This whole document is going to be Approved by the select board on June 16th 2023 And we would probably be checking the links On everything we should Make sure there's still that one here Yeah that's a double edged sword Yeah I want to be more helpful We want to be able to It's also frustrating when you go to the link Take it My proposal we leave it as Yeah I think if it changed I think if you googled Forestry A.M.P.'s And that's common Bernacular for People interested in forestry practices Okay What is that? Acceptable management practices Do you know The true side amps Let's go down to group home Financial care Or group home that must be licensed Or registered per state regulation And that serves persons who have a disability As defined by Statute And then the question of Whether we can Whether we can regulate where they go Is a different question So will we cover that in the district When we look at the district Actually Make a note on that I have a question On group homes Because I seem to recall That there's a state statute That says that up to a certain number of Residents I think this is it There's just those persons Yeah up to a certain number of Residents They are Protected under state statute And can she check on that Then home occupation I'm sorry to a certain number Of What was it Limited to I think the number is eight Or six or eight But I believe there is a state Statute that says You have to allow Group homes of a certain size In Everywhere in the state And can she check on that Or do it a different way Or do it a different way Can we exclude them from any district I don't think we can Okay Home occupation Any concerns there Do that scrolling I love the deletion of hotel Where's that definition now The Wild Wild West or something Go live in the eastern Oh my god It's getting scary Transients An interesting note on hospital I know it wasn't part of the Things but home for the aged I found very interesting that Hospital is defined as One of the definitions is home for the aged And it made me question Is the park house My definition Hospital Interesting You mean That same book that you got I didn't know if it required Any other And it's weird that it includes clinic Clinic is, I mean we have one of those Yeah It's basically a doctor's, it's an office Right You're not going to go get very much Repaired there Let's make sure We're looking through the districts The hospital That actually came up in We should talk about that It came up in Castleton There's a really interesting Trying to do Assisted living An assisted living situation And they're allowed to have X number of units of assisted Living but they can't have the nursing Home that goes with it for when you Can't feed yourself anymore Because it's not allowed It just made me really think about Continuity of care When we get to thinking about What's weird Can that be connected by some sort of accessory thing That's the town of Castleton That's the way they read their zoning Thinking about that as we go Through this, is that what we want With the change of full life Care now includes independent living Right through memory care All on the same land On campus, right? Anyway, so that's for future owners Industrial heavy Industrial light, I thought they were sort of helpful Yes I agree, I thought they were great Kennel, I thought was good To have and lodging We need to really think about What are the minimums and maximums On all of this? Especially as we go by Zep When we get to the heaps Okay, so just Alright Mobile home, there was a change there Mobile home park does not mean premises used solely for storage Or display of mobile home I guess that's Okay Principal building or structure Going there? Oh, we did that Recreation, private outdoor Oh, I didn't realize that was in there Because I had questions when I read this Yeah, and the uses Where we at, Dan? Recreation, private Outdoor Recreation Okay What I was trying to distinguish there is Is it only because they charge money? What is the difference between Yeah Public recreation and private recreation Yeah, I would say private is Private is a for-profit For-profit, okay And I'm not sure that I When we get to uses, I'm not sure Yeah, well, that's why I brought it Would that be prudent To To me, the definition seems Okay But now I've got to rethink some of the uses Where it's probably The word private The commercial outdoor recreation Private to me Sounds like somebody has Private recreation facilities in there Like I have my own golf course Or your own swimming pool I think that's why I was confused About what it is That's the way I read it when I looked at the uses Okay, now not that I have Billions of dollars, but If I had the acreage and wanted to build a private golf course So what about we just I let my friends come and play We like having recreation together We don't want to have that Recreation, commercial outdoor Recreation, public outdoor What are you suggesting? Is it commercial and public the same thing? Or did you mean to say private? No Private open to the public Public means it's owned by the community Right Yeah I was thinking of Making a point though Somebody bought White River Golf club and they could make it a private club Where they not charge anybody For it If somebody had a lot of land and they wanted to build a golf I guess would prevent them from doing that If they're not It's not a commercial operation And would that exclude us Or deny us from saying You can have a golf course in this I mean It's kind of a great thing Backyard golf course People have them I mean what about the tennis court That could hawk Would that be That's private It's very private They have a little playground there too And maybe the pond Is part of that facility as well It's private non-commercial Private non-commercial So I like commercial in here I do too My recommendation is Recreation comma commercial Outdoor Instead of private Recreation comma commercial Outdoor instead of private Is that right? Instead of private outdoor All right Retail Did you mean that one for the private one Or the public one This is going to be replaced With commercial Public Then there's just Public is publicly owned Okay Right Just trying to figure out What we were separating Yeah, well it'll be good Because the definition still has the word private in it The private club for profit Yeah, so we're golden I think we're golden Sweet, good Primary and secondary retail The ones she called out for Review I But then you can see later Yeah There's a later definition of Why the lumber yards are different If you could I Got multiple focal points Just in case Just in case This is the way over there This is actually I could probably go with this one for these right here Oh yeah, yeah Then when I get up close and personal I get this back All right It's too cheap to my Prosperity lenses Retail secondary I didn't have anything Well Well Well number one If you look at Retail primary It says a use whose primary use And if you look at secondary It says a business whose primary use It seems to me that the first one ought to say A business whose primary use So Maya Retail, primary A business whose primary use Yeah, use of primary use Isn't primary use And then I have Trouble with the second The last sentence of secondary Number one We don't have any mixed use areas Or if we did we need to define them And number two Four thousand square feet for secondary retail Is really big And we had talked about About putting a limit on primary retail I thought At three thousand So The building would have to be In order to meet the other criteria The building would have to be Over eight thousand square feet Just think about Work with the number three For a minute and think about primary No, I agree with you I'm just telling you To qualify a secondary use You have to be less than a mixed Listener So do we want And do we want I looked at those other examples She gave us of limitations And Their bigger places that they had One of them had six thousand One of them had forty five hundred I think one of them had thirty five hundred But do we want to put A limit on primary retail And so what I wonder what Max Max is A big That's a fairly big building Three thousand square feet Is it in the retail Section I'm talking about the Max Supermarket Well the back section is Storage Well I I think we could say We could say Maximum three thousand Of retail Space That gets tricky though You could have a shoe store going If you had retail space When does it constitute a warehouse Yeah I think you need To include all the space That makes up the retail establishment Can we leave This without the Space limitation Because I think we put the space limitation In the district I know Three thousand foot Somewhere And why we needed that Why did she put it In the secondary So I propose And the secondary I propose That we just delete the lessons What's mixed use area Is that where you have apartments up top And you tear down below We might end up with something like that But the retail space Has to be smaller than the residential space Is it The way this reads Mixed use building and mixed use care Not quite sure how that works It's a two story building Should be the same Is that Is that trying to describe Like the The country store Of The cafe Even better the Hardware store in laundromat Yeah In the apartments Is this really trying to I think that's what constitutes mixed use I support just getting rid of the Square footage requirement And deal with it So let's be clear of what Maya did tell her I've lost it Basically Maya Can you hear me Maya can you hear us Maya Maya are you there Can you hear us I'm sorry my buttons were not working Properly It's too hard to hear Greg and Christine and Dave It's hard to hear them What's your suggestion Greg So on retail secondary Can you hear me now Can you be a little louder Than I should get it On the retail secondary section The last sentence Have it end after total residential Four space Get rid of And any individual retail Used does not exceed 4,000 square feet Okay so it's in the Last sentence You want the last part of it And in the individual And what are the last few words Of that sentence Or that part you want removed The remainder of the sentence I'm sorry It should end after Total residential four space period And get rid of and any Individual retail use Does not exceed 4,000 square feet Okay Okay I got it thank you Thanks Okay anything that Required agricultural practices Service business I have a question Okay Sorry Patient Very patient She made the comment that She added the definition used in our regional plan Some service businesses May include secondary retail So as a combo What would be an example of that Oh there is a There is a typo Like North Hall of Farm Yeah I'm thinking of somebody that Has a retail yeah actually Some qualifiers that it is Not sure what the service component Of their business is though Well I do have a sales store At the farm there but It's almost like If Harvey's had a retail You know they do a plumbing And sell parts and pieces Yeah Yeah We have any little shops like that Yeah We just sell hard bits Well actually CV oil Or CV oil would be that Right they sell product and service Both something somebody that sells Products and services Okay Not in Rochester but Lowry's power equipment Yeah All some others Workshop service By a file up front You finding this Andy? No I guess I'm over with it Slide down then Short-term rental Let's look at this Not more than one unit temporary lodging Did you have something on that? I was wondering I'm sorry if you wanted to read it out It sounded like you were going to read it out But I'm wondering Why Why it has to be Not more than one unit of temporary lodging Because I'm thinking of Several I mean if we're Does this bleed into Airbnb And I look at the Woodstock Sort of List of litany of things And I'm just thinking of like for example Gordy Merrill's many unit Building Of temporary lodging Which is the entire building I believe Has four or five units in it I think she grabbed these out of two state Statutes, these definitions The short-term rental came out of one statute And the transient traveling or vacation Public 30 consecutive days Came out of another statute So I'm just I'm just wondering Just wondering if there's more it seemed weird What was going on there with that sentence I would agree What about would you strike the word not Promoting one or more Saying or a building providing One or more unit of temporary lodging It's going to provide one or more I mean it's a short term Or is it just simply a building that provides temporary lodging Well then it becomes Rolls into the other definitions Boarding house, hotel Yeah but it's Different because of the number of days and Well the boarding house is 30 And this is less than This is less than 30 And more than 14 per calendar year I like that because there are Folks that have two apartments In a building and they are being Both of them, Gordy's an example there And I could do that I could do Rent out rooms in my house Multiple rooms I don't think it's We could on the building providing Temporary lodging So Maya we're striking Not more than One unit of That's where she's commented Fewer than 30 consecutive days There are people that do Short term rentals In excess of that Like our neighbor did one For middlebury college Summer semester That was six weeks That it Pleads into the Definitions We're going to go over 30 days You're bleeding into the other definitions Yeah And then when does it just become A house rental Or an apartment rental Which we like Well they're longer term One of those folks is to do Rent the place out for the whole summer They go a bit in the corn crib Right Rent a corn crib So they rent out two apartments That still fits under this definition Of the one unit of temporary lodging We got rid of the one unit Yeah I guess you have to Use the work building Use dwelling It's not a big deal for me Even though I've never Rented anyone for 30 days And if it did happen It would be Infrequent We'll move on Can I just confirm before you Move on that last Thing that you asked That you want me to say That you're taking out That was in short term rentals right Correct You take out not more than one unit Correct Okay That maybe we're running But I don't see it Is there any board of adjustment Anyone need a definition there Can we get hats And must have hats Improvisal Alright We got the Z We got the Z We got the ZB That's good because she's going to be Very disappointed in This whole topic We did not cover yet We didn't get She needs to know our side tracks I just want to I got Crazy trying to think about uses Until I printed out She gave us a separate cheat sheet And I found that A really easy way to think about Think about everything I did too That was an easy way to look at it But what I did understand She had some in there where she had Not allowed and permitted I think that was Well the one that I See that for is lodging And I think that's where we need to think about Number of units I would say That Harvey's Can have Six rooms but it can't have 40 rooms You know just his own You know But I wouldn't say That it's not allowed and she does We've got a lot of things to think about On that stuff I think we want those kinds of places to be Up in the hills if they can't be So it's 8.30 It's a school night And the Celtics are playing And the Celtics are playing And I start to get a little Brain weary at this point What we could do We didn't get As far as Sure that Sarah went us to go We could tell her not to come back In February I think that's what we should do Because we know we have a Warrant Subdivision And we may have At least one Warrant Subdivision And we see the average That may come again And now that we've done the definitions I would start at the beginning of the document And walk through it Rather than bounce around Yeah I'm not sure she's ready For us to do that She hasn't completed She looked pretty completed I don't know She has a lot of open questions That she wants to answer along the way So you definitely want to look at her comments That's where she asked her Detailed questions I don't know I started trying to follow her sheet And go around and find it I'm just going to read the doc That's what I did I'm so glad that she did The in-document comments She's good Super helpful She's very good I find it easy I can use Word Or Google Docs I also found it very educational Just in terms of I think there was one comment of This shouldn't be here This isn't The appropriate spot for this So it was really Very good So we'll Let her know that We'll continue on this work In March I'm going to make a motion to adjourn Unless we're still doing Old business Do we need to talk about the Proposed Solar thing And No telepharm We got A 45 day notification Last month It's like It's a G We're planning to do this kind of thing But sometimes Do you sometimes have to Indicate that you want to be What do you call it Interested party Thank you Can we have an intervention Status Your ability to come in on the project This is part of the microgrid Project that GMP is doing Yeah, so this project is GMP is This project to do Microgrid with battery storage That would Part of this Resiliency island project For small communities to have some backup Power during Whereabouts The place that We're going to give up pit space Women And amounts of digging they could do there Over time And there's a lot of stuff in that bank That's there doing it There The old dump site or something Where are you thinking Right Just across the 73 bridge The old dump Are you thinking Twitchels dump No, no, no, the old town dump Way back Maybe that's where it'll be Up over the hump behind the barn Down that stretch If you get in there and walk towards that old trestle It's in the middle of the river Across the river That was the old dump Yeah We don't need We don't need That explains a couple things Way back machine to get that one Just across the river from the Well protection area Which is just downhill from the cemetery Yeah, yeah, that's fine You know, we like to keep things More and more Just the entire systemic system So to make recommendations To the PUC And to us Norwich Technologies Who's been in the project, consulting the project At least seven days prior To the expiration of this 45-day notice It's a great spot for it We anticipate filing The application on Or after January 16 All joining landowners And host landowners will receive notice For location filing Yeah, shadows Most of the Rochester shadows pretty quickly Once you go around the corner I mean, I get beautiful blessings Funnily enough, that spot Was one of the Higher rated Areas for solar On the GIS map That field up there What do you think that Reader and Austin Hill Would be shadowing that The sites You know, you've got exposure To the northeast in the summertime So the sunrise in the northeast But it shadows Very quickly So we can make recommendations At least seven days Prior to the expiration of this 45-day notice Would you like to do that? No Is there any reason to be supportive? I mean, to do that They haven't asked us yet I think we might Want to be But I suspect they're going to come to us For one of those letters The property owner Or preferred site Or builder I would say gravel pit Would be a preferred site That's a great Is that not what they consider a gray site Or whatever that term was? Brown site Yeah So we can go through Plus it's got built-in screen You can't see It's a good spot It's a good project That's a cool project I think That's cool It's a Celtic style, right, Julie? Alright So we won't reply to this letter But we'll be Waiting with bated breath And dissipatory So you want a letter from The land owner? No, no, I just wanted to make sure We didn't have to do anything with this That was all we were doing When they'll eventually come to us For a letter of preferred Status, I think I imagine if they're going to be getting grants And stuff I'm not sure how the funding's working for it Actually, I know G&P's kicking in I believe the battery component of it I don't know if Norwich Solar Is just developing it as a Commercial solar site With battery backup Alright Somebody made a motion to Second Maya Maya, your hands up I just wanted to Confirm that I heard Right that your Decision was to not Do anything about that But you're going to wait and see What they bring to you next Yeah Yeah, that's a good way to put it Thank you again Maya Thanks Maya Thank you Maya, very much