 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. NewsClick brings a series of interviews on the three years of Modi government and today we are going to discuss about the education. To discuss the issue we have with us Abha Dev Habib, former Executive Council member of the Delhi University and also a professor in Miranda House. Abha, welcome to NewsClick. So we look at these three years of the government and how do you assess it, what has been the situation in terms of academic policies, the policies of the government and interventions? Yeah, I see three important developments. One is that in terms of educational policies there is a greater push towards commercialization, whether we look at new education policy, draft policy or we look at what has happened in terms of announcements through budget speeches of Arun Jaitli. For example, in 2016-17 they announced creation of higher education funding agency without discussing this matter at any platform. And this year they announced the scheme of autonomous colleges. The other development is, you know, there is a assault on the autonomy of the system of various organizations. For example, university system. The moment Modi Sarkar came in, they imposed choice-based credit system, taking away autonomy of the universities to create their own syllabi and coursework. And there have been continuous attack in terms of administrative autonomy. I want to clarify here that in terms of autonomous colleges. The autonomous colleges is a scheme where they do not have really academic autonomy. They will also have to have choice-based credit system and so and so forth. And in terms of administrative autonomy, I am sure in terms of administrative autonomy also they will not have the freedom. However, they will have financial autonomy which means that they can raise the fee and also give courses in self-financing mode. So, otherwise there is no autonomy with the institutions to run their own programs to think about coursework and so and so forth. The third thing which has happened is continuous attack on university systems. Whether it was, we have seen how Hyderabad University was under the scanner, how ABVP has become instrumental in creating ruckus in the systems and where individuals or groups of people are labeled anti-national and so and so forth. And there is an attack on student unions. And this is happening because I think the government understands that the resistance will come from the student unions today. After reservation policy, after the inclusion policy, the complexion of the student movement today has changed. And it has students from all work, from marginalized section which understand the importance of public funded institutions. So let us go into these three points separately. The first point that you raise is an important point that is the privatization of education. And we have seen PPP model developing over few years, in last few years. Can you throw some more light on it vis-a-vis the new education policy? And how is it, how is the government moving forward on it? See when there was lot of opposition on the draft new education policy that was withdrawn. However it is being implemented through announcements and so and so forth. In terms of education policies, NDA Sarkar is quite an extension of UPA2. If you look at the six education bills which were stopped by Rajasabha, once again we see that the prime minister for example has asked Niti Ayo for the foreign education bill. In terms of their use of ranking system, you know ranking whether it is NIRF or whether it is NAC has become a big thing in the country today. And if you look at the draft new education policy, one of the important recommendations there is that ranking or rating will be used to give greater autonomy to the institutions which are doing well. Autonomy one has to read in terms of financial autonomy and for weeding out those institutions which are not performing well. Recently you hear that you know Times of India carried a news report wherein the MHRT has said that 11 universities are not performing well. And the funny thing was that it was asking UGC to come up with the criterias through which it could announce universities not performing. So it first announced that these 11 universities are ill and then is asking UGC to come up with the criteria. So how I mean in both cases whether you are performing well and therefore you are given financial autonomy or you are closed down or your land is given now to NGOs and so and so forth or private players to run the institution in both the ways actually what you are doing is commercializing higher education. You are giving it to the private pocket. So this is one big agenda whether it is for an education bill or whether through these things, ratings and rankings you want to actually further the whole thing of commercialization of higher education. In fact the third point which I said was that you know there is a attack on the student movements and this whole thing of when the JNU SU was fighting stopping of non-net fellowship occupy UGC movement, stopping of non-net fellowship you see that there is an attack on JNU SU and Kanhaiya was arrested and everybody knows about it. Through that also they want to achieve the agenda of commercialization and I want to tell you why I think so because in many TV channels where I went I heard BJP MPs or MLAs or some supporter shouting that why we should fund universities such professors and why should we fund politics yeah why we fund politics or why should we fund JNU which is a you know a space which is creating anti-nationals. So once again you want to close down you want to create an impression in the minds of the in the minds of the people that these universities are not functioning well that they are actually becoming places of anti-national activities and why should taxpayers money go and should be used for funding of these universities. So once again you want to create a argument for closing down higher education institutions and privatize these places. Actually the second question that I was going to ask about your second point and the point you have raised about the financial autonomy. Since Stephens College has been against this autonomous has been active on this movement continuously resisting this move of the administration can you throw some more light on that because we have seen high fee structures now being imposed in different universities. The recent example that comes to my mind is of Punjab of Punjab where students have been on streets they have been beaten up 66 students have been charged with sedition charges so can you throw some more light on that see I think the attempt is to decrease the gap between the fee structures of the private and the public. So one of the ways is to give financial autonomy to increase for example in IITs also if you look at last 5 years the fees has been increased systematically and today per semester they are paying or per year they are paying 2.5 lakhs close to 2.5 lakhs per year rather than paying 30,000. So you want to reduce the gap between public and private in terms of their fee structure also. So making colleges autonomous asking them to raise fee and you know one of the recommendation of 7th pay commission is that autonomous units have to raise 70 percent the government will contribute 30 percent should come from the institution which will mean finally burdening of the student. Similar on the PPP model. So the thing is that the government wants to shift the focus from institutional grants to institutional loans through HIFA. It wants to shift the whole thing of subsidized education to student loan. So that is a continuous shift. So whether you will look at the autonomous college scheme or whether you will look at what will happen to funding through HIFA it I mean very clearly Arun Jaikli has said and subsequently many articles have come how if you want to open a nanotechnology lab the government will not give you grant. You can take funds from HIFA which can be paid back through student loan. The example is of an IIT where you need 100 crore grant. So instead of getting grant you take funds loans of through HIFA and you can in build that through student fee and pay back in 10 years or 12 years. So you raise the point about ABVP and I feel it personally that it is not only ABVP but they also motivated appointments that have taken place in last three years. We saw how FTII there was a 4 months strike. There now we have a vice chancellor in Jawaharlal University who is not ready to meet even the professors and is passing AC meeting whatever he wants to even when the teachers and students are opposing it. So how do you see that I mean the systematic attack on co-structures administrative functioning. See if you have a administrative head who is not going to respond to what the students and teachers want. Does not want to take forward decisions in a democratic function through democratic functioning but is following orders is basically hollowing the system from within the autonomy from within creating environment where you manufacture consent. And this we had seen in fact during Professor Dines Singh's tenure in Delhi University when UPI 2 was pushing semester system then it pushed FY UP in Delhi University through similar means. And this is very unfortunate because then the university sees to be a universe spaces where you have to think. You develop rational thinking. Rational and free thinking. I mean since we have discussed all these points and we see that the situation is really worse but there is also a movement which is building up and I think it is the resistance that students and teachers have shown that one should take forward. So how do you watch the way ahead actually. The way ahead is joint movements by students and teachers and I think we should reach out to parents because if commercialization of school education has already privatization has taken place. With a drastic budget cut. There is a drastic budget cut. In fact we are not even back to what was the funding towards education in 2013-14. There has been such a drastic budget cut. But one thing one warning which we have to you know we have to go to the parents and inform them about this development that if higher education is dismantled then there is no hope for their kids. I mean there is no hope for the next generation and this will create stratification further stratify the society and creating those who can afford education and get white collar jobs and others who will be there in the service sector. So we need to reach out to parents and ask them to join the movement and make a combined joint movement. This is the only way ahead. Thanks a lot Abha and as these things proceed will be coming back to you on such issue. Thanks a lot. Thank you for watching NewsClick.