 Good morning a cozy crowd here this morning Thanks so much for turning up to appreciate this. I'm Andrew Stevens. Welcome to the panel on climate smart growth How can government and business leaders prefer prepare for a climate resilient future? I think it's fair to say that the science of Climate change and the impact of human activity Has been very very clearly defined you probably Will be aware of the recent reports from the UN into governmental panel on climate change plus the national climate assessment in the US both of which have Really overwhelmingly pointed to human activity on emissions on climate change so it is Apart from a few die-hards it is before us and it is time to act the question is What does climate change mean? How warm? Will this planet get? Realistically, I think the World Bank has been talking somewhere north of three degrees at the moment It's also and others as well has mentioned perhaps a four degree Warming and the implications of that obviously potentially devastating just Looking in the Philippines. I was in Tacloban last week looking at the rebuilding after Haiyan after Yolanda and It is taking time It is a slow process But what struck me is this phrase which I kept on hearing over and over again in Tacloban also here in Manila That Yolanda Haiyan is the new normal Now this remember was the most devastating the most powerful weather system To have been recorded hitting a population area. That is what Manila says is the new normal This is why at least in part the rebuilding is taking time because as they say they're building back better which is more expensive, but it is Directly related to the fact that they are expecting this sort of weather system to continue There are two impacts as obviously the immediate impact of of a climate and extreme climate event and then there is the Disruption involved with that the damage the initial damage There's also the knock-on effect which we're going to be talking about the fact that food prices can rise energy prices can rise The fact that as we saw the Thai floods recently Japanese industry is hit by flooding in Thailand. It is so interconnected these days So the panel is going to be looking really at three key issues today Policy preparedness and technical innovation For climate change. What should policy makers be doing? How should countries prepare for a warmer world and how critically does technology help in all this? I'm joined by a very distinguished panel today, and I would like to introduce on my immediate left as Satoshi Nishida Nishida Sun is the chairman of the board at Toshiba corporation. Obviously one of the biggest companies not just in Japan But but globally Last financial year Nishida Sun is interesting You were able to put a figure on the number of Tons of CO2 emissions you were your technology was cutting which is an interesting topic We'll talk about that obviously as technology. So welcome Nishida Sun this morning Next to Nishida Sun Rachel Kite vice president special envoy on climate change at the World Bank Sitting next to Rachel Yolanda Kakabadze. She is the president of WWF International now a key stakeholder in talks relating to climate smart growth dealing with the future on On rate on Yolanda's left is Takahiko Nakao Who is president of the Asian Development Bank based here of course in Manila and Kim Dong-Kwon is the managing director of the Hanwha Group of South Korea Hanwha one of the biggest business conglomerates in South Korea and has also Very aggressively moved into a greener technology particularly in the business of solar panels So with that we shall begin our session. There will be a chance for questions This is a sort of topic where I really would encourage questions from the floor Because there are obviously very specific issues and we have just the panel here to deal with it today So if I don't get to it, you certainly will and I look forward to that I Would just like quickly to start I'm just fast our panels a brief question to begin with Nishida Sun If I may start with you and just we can't talk about climate change policy in isolation We have to talk about energy policy as well, don't we? all right as The effects of climate change become more apparent We are faced with the important question of how to tackle the issue As I see it there are two ways the first is to attempt to mitigate the impacts of climate change by reducing greenhouse gases The second is to well adopt to the effects of climate change however Before discussing these issues. I think there are three critical issues that we have to understand and solve if possible The first one is and This climate change issue should be discussed together with energy issues unfortunately in any country including Japan This was not realized these two issues have been discussed Separately completely separately So without combining these two issues together It will be very difficult for us to reach the appropriate conclusion This is a fun issue second issue is IEA international energy agency Publishes energy book every year in November and They show Very clearly if we do not take any countermeasures for climate change Then the CO2 emission will rise to the level of 57 billion tons in 2050 which should be reduced to 15 billion tons this 15 billion tons is the half of 30 billion ton the actual result of in in 2010 It's a dramatic Incredibly high-level reduction in 2050 so But as long as the total CO2 emission is shown No country has sense of urgency to take immediate action To try to reduce that So I have been personally requesting chief economist of IEA Mr. Bilal to show the breakdown of by country by country by country of that total of 57 billion tons in 2050 He promised and and IEA is right now working To show that in this year's energy book, which will be a published in November so if Those breakdowns are shown. I think a each country will be very much surprised at the very high you know level of CO2 emission for which they have to reduce dramatically so that The real discussion will be able to start after that probably third critical issue is that We for we should forget about 1990 of course, which is the Starting year of Kyoto protocol, but 1990 is a long long first already We should not start, you know to discuss the level of CO2 emission reduction based upon 1990 at least 2010 2011 Should be taken as the starting year To be able to reduce requested amount of CO2 emission toward 2050 of course It's not emerging country that objects this idea It's developed countries that Make an objection to this idea but developed countries Although although they have been greatest effort They have been making greatest effort to reduce CO2 emission during the period of from 1990 to present but developed countries should be more tolerant and Should agree with my idea I know Then we can Start to discuss this CO2 emission reduction issue together With not only developed countries, but also emerging countries as well. So discussing. Thank you very much concerning, you know how to Realize our necessary countermeasures if we have time later on I want to refer to that as as a flyer of various kinds of energy-related equipments So certainly that 57 billion tons is a figure that is Something we need to be aware of a racial kind of I can ask you in the light of the Recent report from the UN talking about emissions now increasing at the fastest rate ever Just paint us a picture first of all before we get start getting into policy of how what will a planet Three degrees perhaps four degrees warmer look like what are we actually going to be dealing with? Well, thank you. Good morning Well, we did we will be dealing with a planet where every sector of the economy and every aspect of life will be More complicated than it is right now so we if we believe the science the science is Now at a level of consensus that is rarely seen the science would indicate that will be two degrees warmer by the 2030s and it will be four degrees or higher by the end of the century That means that for all of the Current cities and future cities of this region which are which are often on the coast Often constrained just like Metro Manila in terms of land space, etc That they will be highly vulnerable to extreme and intensified weather events They these cities are urbanizing quickly and growing quickly a lot of informal settlers coming in those people are the most Vulnerable and so we have a situation where we will be putting more and more and more poor people in harm's way We will have an incredibly strained agricultural system the extreme weather events and The variability of weather without extreme weather events is going to put extraordinary pressure on a declining productive land base To be able to produce more food more nutritious food For a growing urban population that has aspirations around what its diet should be and so the innovations that will be necessary In crop production, but also that land use will have to be managed in such a way as we're actually managing the emissions That come from land as well right so there are ways to grow rice with only a third of the methane emissions Than other technologies for growing rice will will produce and so we're gonna have to think this through so we're gonna have to Grow more food more nutritious food for people with different aspirations around their diets on less land with more Complicated weather and without reducing more emissions. Good news is it can be done But it's going to require a wholesale effort to be able to do that It means that the forests of the region already vulnerable to fires will be even more so because of intense heat spots and it means that The air quality if we don't change our energy mix will become even more dangerous than the one that we're already experiencing in parts of the region so Economic growth will be constrained The jobs that that economic growth needs to produce will be constrained and so I mean that's why the World Bank Group Which is an economics and development finance institution has put such a Emphasis on climate change because we don't see how we can meet our clients aspirations for poverty ending poverty by 2030 and building more inclusive growth and shared prosperity by 2030 We don't think that that's possible without aggressive action to reduce emissions But also aggressive action to invest in resilience and preparedness for what is a more dangerous world We're gonna be talking about those aggressive actions, of course Just before we just go to your land I'd like to ask the cow son if I can just following on from what Rachel was saying specifically Asia Relative to the rest of the world how vulnerable are the economies of Asia from the adb's viewpoint. Oh Oh We are Resident to a manila and we experienced Severe list of the typhoon or ever Typhoon Yolanda called here and typhoon hey young international code. That was a really devastating typhoon and science scientifically, I don't know whether we can link it to totally to the Climate change, but it is obvious that we have a more severe and more frequent disasters in the region Asia is More vulnerable to the disasters including earthquake and tsunami It's not maybe ready to the climate change, but we should prepare for the Disasters and one of the important tasks adb's Targeting is how to manage and prevent the disaster as well and It involves of course the preparedness in terms of where they leave people leave Of the coast for instance and how we can have a higher highway so that the highway can be a kind of the Prevention for tsunami coming to the inland so there are many things we can do and also Disaster insurance so the earthquake insurance can be one option So that is about disaster. So we are really looking at these issues and that is one of the priorities of adb Especially because we are in Asia. Yeah, just on that very quickly on that point was typhoon hyan Was that a pivotal event where policy makers have now changed their view on Climate change and the effects of climate change. Yeah, again, of course People's are more aware of the impact of the climate change and that the typhoon frequent and the severe typhoon can be associated with the Climate change and the many Pacific Island countries the adb covers Pacific Island countries and also central Asia over the Caucasus area, but the Pacific Island countries really suffer from climate change because there are more high tides and Some part of the island cannot be a liveable. So I would say the member countries are more aware of Direct impact from the climate change. Okay, Yolanda Kaka but say Worldwide fund how close are you coming to being a Partner in climate change discussions now have does the WWF get access now to Policy decisions. Do you have the input you think you need to to really turn things around make a difference? Andrew I'll start by Thinking you for saying that Yolanda has been the most important thing In in this last year The other Yolanda the threatening one but a WWF Has the advantage that it has a profile of not being threatening it is an organization that proposes solutions that proposes partnerships and In the case of Asia, we have been working with the bank for a long time The Asian Development Bank with the World Bank and with the private sector and that is because we are absolutely Convinced that even if we is WWF ahead the best solution the magic answer We wouldn't be able to do it alone we would need to partner with governments with Multilateral banks with civil society with with the communities on the ground in the private sector and And I'm glad to say it's happening. It's happening and we feel Pride in seeing that these partnerships are focused are providing Responsive and providing solutions to two different cases that go from providing energy to local communities who are absolutely abandoned in a way in in rural areas with no access to the grid to a providing Alternative solutions to urban areas in mega cities as well as in in small ones Working with the construction sector working with the agricultural sector with cattle ranching with fisheries I see it tremendous and fantastic change in the fisheries sector by changing the arts that they use for fishing by respecting The times of the year in which they can fish and much of this is from WWF initiatives from your own Absolutely, if you look back at all the certification process in timber and fisheries in soy in palm oil Now we are going into meat and in seafood That is an initiative of WWF not alone Of course as I mentioned before it has to be with other partners But we see it's working. Maybe it's not their solution to to address everything But but it has become an instrument for improvement of Processes where we use natural resources and of course there is a lot more we have to do it Especially at this moment when climate change is is definitely a threat That is just at the doorstep of every family household country Yeah, but yes as you said that the time has come more needs to be done DK Kim technology obviously critical in climate change policy It is now a case is it not that a climate efficient technology is profitable It makes business sense. I'm just curious where are the big developments coming at the moment in your opinion? I think Just to go back a bit. I think you know once for us as a for-profit enterprise I mean we were always looking at The megatrends of the world how where we can make money where could we put our innovative forces and Make a return and I think Green energy really is starting to make economic sense. I think as it was mentioned by the World Bank climate change is On what on the one hand? It's a very moral issue Where I think millions of lives if not tens of hundreds of millions of lives are at stake but on the other hand it's also a very economic issue and I think from economic perspective if you look at the economics of Solar energy for instance. I think if you look at if you take out the subsidies That go into the billions of dollars of subsidies that many governments provide for fossil fuel I think if you look at the payback period for a lot of these solar systems Let's say in Australia or in the Philippines These are these make a lot of economic sense, and I think for us as a for-profit organization as much as we like to help with the environment and help with With the society it has to make economic sense for us, and I think and we're a very realistic company We do we we do have two cold co-generation plants in Korea We're one of the largest petrochemical companies in Korea as well But looking 20 30 years in the future We've made a big bet in renewable energy just because it made economic sense for us, but I think Taking a step back. I think not only economic sense, but I think for as a society as a whole I think that I think we have to look at it as more of an infrastructure investment. I think you know uh countries put in these Highways in order to stimulate the automotive industry or tourism industry and it has a ripple effect I think we've seen that with the highways. We've seen that with high-speed internet. I think now. It's really time to look at smart grids and financing mechanisms for these renewable energy technologies because Once these infrastructures in place I think if you look at if you make an apple-to-apple comparison between a cold co-generation or a diesel generation versus a Solar system for instance all the moral challenges aside I think the economics are there and then if you add in the fact that from a From a societal or even a generational perspective that this is a moral issue as well I think the Equation is pretty clear for us How fast is your? Green division for one of a better term growing with within the group I mean is this where you see the big driver of growth for your for your earnings? Yes, I mean we're I mean we're a big group. We have $40 in revenues, but I think The our biggest focus I mean from from a corporate conglomerate level We focused on green energy as a driver of growth And I think we see the potential because it's not a niche market where you compete among the renewables anymore I think you compete directly with nuclear you compete directly with coal you compete directly with with gas and It's not only the actual power plants themselves But because of the distributed generated distributed nature of renewables It's almost a total energy solution that you see and I think if you think about the portion of energy in the entire economy I think the potential is huge and I think that's why even if we're a 40 billion dollar company like us We see this as we're the biggest and most profitable But also kind of the most social responsible growth opportunities are okay We are perhaps at the beginning of the office transformation now and speaking of transformation I want to come back to you Rachel World Bank's opinion. Oh, this is about climate smart policy climate smart growth. What to you is it is climate smart? What do policy makers need to do so they would get that stamp of approval if you like from the World Bank But this is a climate smart development Well, I think the the good news is it you know, there's some every country can lead on this, right? Every country's economy is shaped differently have you know one has one's own aspirations for growth competitiveness jobs And so you can fit into that so that let's start from the very beginning, right? If you accept the premise that climate change Is actually going to make it more difficult for you to achieve those things then we have to tackle carbon So if we consider carbon to be a global bad Not a global good then we should put a price on it We should start treating it as what it is and we should start using the incentives and the tools and the mechanisms within economic Management and planning to start reducing the intensity of carbon in growth So put a price on it put a price on it by putting a tax on it It's starting to happen isn't there is I think there's a beginning of a sense of inevitability about this There are more than 20 countries in the world plus the EU That have said that they are going to have some kind of market-based mechanism For for carbon and exchange trading system system of some kind would look at China look at career in this region Obviously the EU California Chile etc But there are also countries announcing now that they're looking at different tax regimes as well all you got countries doing both Price carbon then do exactly what what Kim said which is stop subsidizing what you don't want And what will not sustain your growth and will not help the poor which are harmful fossil fuel subsidies and Start using that financing to incentivize the growth where you do want it Leveling the playing field for renewable energy leveling the playing field for other technology and innovation which is low carbon That will have an impact then and how you think about your cities Transport solutions for cities actually define city growth So low carbon transport solutions which allow the poor to get to work quickly and easily Will improve the competitiveness of your city and will attract further investment and then it and then you know The way in which one manage land want which one manages land from forests and agriculture, so climate smart means Thinking through the impact of carbon from an emissions perspective, but the resilience of every sector in the economy and And increasingly that's what you're starting to see so for us Respecting the 20-year history of global climate negotiations as being you know basically a pollution control Conversation amongst ministers of environment and climate negotiators What we're desperate to do is to bring the climate conversation out of the Ministry of Environment Exclusively and put it right on the table of the Ministry of Finance planning budget You know and in that in that case Philippines is a leader because Section perissimus Secretary of Budget the Prime Minister the president everybody here is Focused on climate as a sort of central government Challenge not just a challenge for the Ministry of Environment It is of course an environment issue as well But it's now really about how you use the levers of fiscal policy and macroeconomic planning to think about how that future looks like Yes, Yolanda I Totally agree with you Rachel that that the Ministry of Finances and Economy has to be part of this discussion but sometimes I have the feeling that that we are dealing with with a climate agenda only from the technological point of view and And I don't think we can get stuck in there There is something which is equally valuable which is the other side of the coin and that is the ecosystems the forests the rivers which all of them are in natural capital and we are not putting value on them and maybe they The mistake or the weakness of the ministries of the environment has been to just speak about those resources as valuable resources for quality of life without Identifying what is the value, but if we look at At Japan and the tsunami the areas that were least affected were the ones that had a forest If we look at Yolanda typhoon in the Philippines the areas and the communities least affected Were the ones where the mangroves were existing the original mangroves So those ecosystems do have a value that should be part of the national accounting system And that is not being done yet, and I think that enormous gaps Leads us into Simplifying the response to climate change preparedness into thinking that it is only technology and the carbon emission reduction The calcium yes, it is supporting the mitigation efforts by investing in mitigation I mean renewable energies hydro water energy and also hydro energy the solar We invest a lot in the Pacific Island countries for solar project for instance in and also in Thailand No, as I said, we are also now Have priorities of disaster prevention and management, but regarding mitigation itself about the climate issue I think Instead of just talking about the importance of addressing these issues We should have a more collective international action and to do that Maybe we might must have followed the various approaches instead of just targeting the treaty Which has binding Obligations for countries. I think it's very difficult to agree to the certain binding treaty so we should start thinking of The different kind of approaches to guide countries because countries want to address these issues because of a climate change But also because of our environment themselves. So in case of China, they are very serious about tackling the climate change or environment issues because they suffer from environment problems, so I'd like to say that we should pursue many approaches based on the collective goal and Certain Target for each country's which is designed by themselves and there should be peer pressure between countries Of course the binding obligation by treaty is the ideal solution But we should think more pragmatically and we should also pay attention to regulations in addition to economic Things because the regulation is the most powerful way to persuade people to oblige Industry and household to do something and tax is important And of course carbon trade or the pricing of a carbon can be one option, but it's not the Single panacea and subsidy to cut the subsidy for the energy for instance it's not for poor people the Most the beneficiary of energy subsidy is the higher income people so we should eliminate or reduce those subsidies for energy and Also, we should think about the city planning. How can we make a city less energy energy? I mean Intensive but we can have a smaller cities with more densities and with a better public Transportation, we should think about the way we leave we can't afford to live in a very remote places to use the energies And also we must think about how to finance those issues I mean that's the key fine all these are great suggestions They all cost money getting rid of subsidies protecting sort of have natural habitats They are all you know carbon taxes Not Texas so much, but but how do we pay for this? Yeah, but once again, of course we should tax the energy consumption And we can use general tax for this and private sector can be immobilized But we need policies because it's an externality issues We cannot just ask private sector to finance these things We should use a taxpayer's money. We should mobilize tax from again taxing the energy and We can ask our private sectors to be a part of the investors But we can't just ask private sector to do everything because it's an externality issues This is a market failure case because climate change is Externality so again the innovation is important and the moral station in the end with a certain Policies by the government we can have a moral station to the people to to to save the energy and so on and Finally, I think advanced economies that should feel more responsibilities or addressing these issues Instead of talking about the responsibility of emerging economies Asians I mentioned will be more than 50% in 2035 because of population population is a more than 50% so if we emit the average emission in Asia it would be 50% but at the same time so far the CO2 program happened because of a mission by advanced economies So we should have a collective action instead of discussing the responsibility of emerging Yeah, just to address the issue of how to finance and I guess it almost goes back to the question of what smart growth means and I think I Think because so we so we operate the second largest insurance company in Korea with about 80 billion dollars in assets and Well, we are always constantly asking is how we're gonna be able to pay our policyholders in this such a low interest rate environment and I think What one thing that we have found out is that these renewable energy these clean investments have a long Long-term horizon you you make a solar plant You wait you and you make the initial investment and you reap the benefits over 25 years So I think it's not so from a financial perspective I think it meets perfectly with a lot of these kind of big funds that have a long-term Long-term perspective like insurance companies. I think so I think but if you talk to a CIO of any global insurance company they'll tell you that they're looking for Anything that could beat the market that would yield 10 20-year returns on a Continuous basis and I think for wind or for solar. I think these are very predictable Investments and I think you seeing this change. Are you seeing more more institutional money going into these sort of yes But I think I mean I think the question is The understanding has you know insurance companies. I mean we work we we have one But are very conservative organizations that need a lot of That are not really risk-prone But once you understand the technology behind it and once you understand the mechanism It's actually you really understand that it's not a risky investment at all and I think that kind of Kind of education but also kind of a policy framework because finance is a heavily regulated industry in all In all countries and for instance for us in Korea or in Asia I think the financial regulators have to understand it as well because then That really depends how the risk-based capital is incorporated into the These kind of investments, but I think once that's there that could happen When it comes to Methods or means to achieve Climate-smart growth is quite different from country to country Because as I stated already this climate change issue is closely related to energy issue What you have to do is Taking deeply into consideration the climate change or CO2 emission issue You have to find out the best Energy mix in each country Take an example of Japan in case of Japan Japan is Ireland we cannot purchase or buy electricity from the neighboring countries The space for solar system is quite limited In Japan it's not as windy as in Germany So wind power is quite limited Of course the technological advance for thermal power plant including Ultra super critical coal-fired plant and also combined cycle thermal power plant Which is a mixture of steam turbine and gas turbine Japan's technology is very much advanced even compared with other foreign countries But still we cannot solve the best energy mix issue Especially right after Fukushima nuclear power accident there is a Kind of emotional reaction to nuclear power so This nuclear power issue is not discussed scientifically and with cool head because This nuclear power issue is not has not been discussed together with climate issue Those two issues have been discussed separately So the people who again who are against the nuclear power says you can utilize other energy generation resources as much as possible for example coal-fired power station as much as possible without thinking of the CO2 emission The same is true of a thermal power plant. They don't care the CO2 emission issue So like that so what we need is to find out the best energy issue Even in order to solve this climate issue This is a kind of circle cycle Excuse me I'd just like to get your lander's view on that as as Nishida Sun said Japan is limited in what alternative sources what sustainable energy it can use Do you think there are countries that It's acceptable that Nuclear power would have to be included in some shape or form Is there any is there any scenario in which the WWF would support nuclear power? I'm not an expert in this Andrew, but we do try to promote the other renewable sources and solar and wind and Geothermal My my concern and this is personal not institutional Recognizing the value of nuclear energy. I mean medicine couldn't do it without it at this moment Wouldn't it but if we look at the case of Japan? I get terrified I get terrified of the potential impact number one And then we haven't yet found a solution for how to deal with the residues and and that is an issue but as I say I I'm Not an expert in that and we don't promote in WWF because we know that the other sources are available are clean are a Wonderful alternative right sure. Well, yeah, I just I mean I think that just to build on the last two comments First of all what we're seeing is collective risk appetites change Japan's Changed away from nuclear as a result of a nuclear disaster in in Germany You're having a different conversation because there is actually a conversation about You know no nuclear but no carbon and how are we going to do it? So I think I think what we've seen is that different populations shift their sort of collective risk appetite as Populations and they shift one way and they may shift back the most important thing to remember is that? By the second half of the century It's not about being at two degrees three degrees four degrees whatever It's basically about having a carbon neutral economy Right, so we need to be carbon neutral as an as a global economy. There are three things We're gonna need to get there. We're either going to have to embrace nuclear We're not advocating one way or the other as a World Bank Group Secondly, we certainly need carbon capture and storage Because a lot of the world is is really still married to carbon futures for some time And the big technological breakthrough we need is is solar storage capacity So battery storage for solar so that solar can be a baseload power Now if we can make a big advance in that third then you know the other two which are technically more difficult extremely expensive And in the case of nuclear just the planning process and that collective risk appetite means anything that we Think about building now is not going to come on stream for another 10 15 20 years So it's I think everything pushes you towards the technological breakthrough that you need in the carbon neutrality that is green so I think that Yeah, we can debate whether we're gonna sort of push on one side or on the other But eventually we have to think about the goal being neutrality interesting DK Kim on that on the solar power on that The base load power how far away are we from that scenario that Rachel Kai talks about I think I mean the issue with solar power is It's not so much the solar power. I think it's the storage and I think depending on What kind of storage systems and depending on where you are? I think we're there in many instances But I think in the maybe in the five ten year future I think it's really reasonable for us to expect solar as the peak shaving where we would still have Some sort of thermal plant, but we would take off maybe 20 25 percent off the peak And I think even that would go a long way, but I think that would buy us time for I think hopefully in the next five to ten Years, I think there would be more affordable battery battery storage solutions But I think it goes back to what I was talking about in terms of the government making an infrastructure investment I think you can't expect internet internet entrepreneurs to come up and make investments in high-speed internet or Car companies to build highways So I think that's where the government has to change and I think what are you advocating from the government? What do you want to say? Do you want to see grants? Do you want to see? Partnerships with government on this? I mean I think just As I mentioned before just taking away the fuel subsidies and making leveling the playing field in the playing field and I think for many many countries, I think it's just taking away the fuel subsidies and making the R&D investments not necessarily for this noble cause but for job growth and for innovation I think I mean governments are looking for ways to promote education and growth Anyways, and I think it's a policy choice of where you make these kind of investments And you might as well as make them in solar or storage or kind of wind I'd like to ask the ADB in the Kowson You're in your dealings with governments in Asia as This panel repeatedly has been saying, you know, we are running out of time It is it is now a mission critical. Have the politicians got hold of that as well and maybe if they believe it Are they acting? Are they prepared to make the hard decisions to make the unpopular decisions yet because we've been talking about this for Decades now have we reached a point where politicians in Asia in your opinion are taking those decisions Of course when I visit the countries Like China, India, Bhutan, Pacific Island countries, in any country There are so keen interest in the climate change and also environment. It is interlinked Issues and many countries already start taking kind of new strategy for addressing these issues We agreed to the memorandum of understanding with the Chinese National Reform and Development Committee and also environmental ministry They are so keen to learn the best practices of The tackling environment and climate change learning from ADB So there is a very strong keen interest, but at the same time many countries in Asia Still want to grow further and to reduce poverty so for them, of course the connecting road between the city and The rural areas is the priority. There is a nexus here, isn't there? You can grow fast, you can grow smart and At the same time reduce poverty. Is there the model there? Of course they can do those things together, but of course There is a certain dilemma and sometimes we should pay more attention to the growth of the poverty reductions to the climate change But they try to combine those ideas together, but at the same time as I said earlier The UNLESS ADB and also international community as a whole address these issues There is no kind of a dilemma about prisoners UNLESS other people do the right things, there is less incentives But I want to emphasize that the Asian leaders already noticed the issues of climate change really clearly And does that, sorry, DK? Just to add on to that, I've personally seen an agency problem Where I think many of these leaders and policymakers who are in charge right now probably won't be around in 2040, 2050 And I think, I think it's kind of, you know, like You see this in many issues, but I think it's just from a personal perspective I think it's the young people in their 20s and 30s that have to live with this I think that have not been really kind of informed much and has not exerted enough political pressure And I think, are you saying this could be a generational change before we actually see meaningful Yeah, I mean, I think but unfortunately, I think it's gonna be too late when the young generation Realizes that, you know, the world has become such a Tough place to live and is messed up and I think it's gonna cost us a lot more 20 years from now to try to figure out how to decarbonize the world, but I think right now, I think there is clearly a Agency problem, but just a good excuse just for one second. You're a good example You're a younger generation. You are influential. You run a very powerful company. How Vocal are you? In pushing government when you speak to government leaders I mean, I think the problem though with the with the pub private enterprise like us is that And I'll be open about it We're a for-profit organization and I think that's where kind of the conflict of interest or the perceived conflict of interest is seen Often, but I think that I so I think that's why there has to be more activism on the part of NGOs and nonprofits or even just Individual at the individual level As long as the energy issue is concerned the role of Technology is So big as we cannot forecast The weak point of renewable Energy is just cost that was because of poor Generation efficiency if we could enhance The efficiency of generation from 2240 60 Then a situation will quite change But still we may not be able to make it base load electricity Because it will fluctuate so I gave just one idea I Would like all of you to keep that, you know in your mind for long if you could develop Incredibly on you imaginary high performance storage battery You'll be able to solve almost 90% of energy issue on the on the earth For which we have been making the greatest effort every day but still It will take much longer time For us to develop such you know Excellent high performance Storage battery, so please keep it keep that in mind But we will utilize this even if we if the performance is smaller than we expect We can utilize this storage battery for the fluctuation of Soda energy as well as wind energy. Is that the holy grail batteries for storage batteries? Yeah, I think you know battery is what one problem, but I mean just grid-level storage I think doesn't necessarily have to be limited to lithium ion batteries But I think just to add on that I think I mean if you view this as kind of a commercial enterprise Yes, sure I think we can wait five ten twenty years however long it may take for private sector R&D but I think if you look at this as kind of a life-or-death situation which is it is for I think on a global level I think there I think I think the world has the potential To put more of its innovative power, and I think if we can make an iPhone Why not why couldn't we you know use that kind of innovation to build? Battery systems or storage systems that are just as innovative not only for Renewable energy, but also for another another other energy as well We will strengthen to develop much more advanced technology Even for nuclear power to make it much more safety assured and Also to enhance that generation efficiency or just in case of a combined cycle Power plant Generation efficiency our product, you know is already 62% very high So year by year we will improve Technologically that performance So I think you I would like you to also pay attention to such advanced, you know technology of Different energy Rachel did you have a point I was going to try and shift the conversation Back back to the other big challenge for this region, which is the cost of adaptation, right? So we're talking about mitigation which is essential, but you know the cost of making yourself resilient to the climate change which is coming from the Emissions that we've already put up into the atmosphere couple of quick examples that resiliency you're talking about What what is resilient? So we've talked about innovation in in technology for energy But there's in this financial innovation in how you help an economy like the Philippines Pay for what we now would estimate would be a 25 to 30 percent hike in the cost of infrastructure development As a result of having to build an infrastructure, which is resilient to a much more punishing weather Weather scenario so That's obviously there's going to be a contribution from the public purse But there's a very interesting conversation which the weft has been involved in around what the innovation in the insurance and Resilience sort of financial infrastructure will be and that means helping the nation be able to respond immediately to disaster It means helping local government have financial resilience so that it can invest in Smarter more resilient housing, etc. But also in protection of natural resources And also be able to respond to disaster and then the really important thing which is the financial resilience of the poor So using micro insurance and other insurance models to make sure that families and households can bounce back or build back better and You know the for a country like the Philippines But I mean there are plenty of other countries in this region that face the same situation by virtue of their geography They are in the wrong place at the wrong time and being able to build up the financial resilience to what will be What is projected to be a rather punishing sort of future of? Both extreme weather events, but also sort of slow Evolving weather events it becomes very important and then of course there's all the innovation in the building materials and the techniques and the ways in which you can design Urban areas to be more resilient and that you know, that's not just what we're what needs to happen up in down in region 8 It's that's a challenge for Manila. It's a challenge for Jakarta It's a challenge for Bangkok. You know these are the engines of economic growth for these countries And they are in peril unless we find a way to invest in their resilience so I think that You know all of the if we look at all the money that flows into sort of climate smart Activity at the moment the majority of it is flowing into you know mitigation activity. So greener energy cleaner energy transport systems agriculture forestry, etc. But Actually, we need to see much more investment in adaptation and that's going to have to come from public policy again and then for I think from for increased awareness in the private sector of the risks to their own business model if They don't understand adaptation and don't prepare for it, but but the awareness obviously is growing In the when it's the same question. I asked the adb racial from your experience Government policymakers, are they actively now changing their mindset? Are they well not their mindset? Are they actively are they doing something? Yeah, I think I think depending on where you are in the world. I think the answer is yes Is it quick enough fast enough far enough? We probably know okay, but so I think developed countries are Your face one set of challenges, which is how to you know Retrofit their economies to be lower carbon and resilient for middle-income countries It's how do you continue to secure the rates of growth that you need but do that in a lower carbon way and build resilience? And for the low-income countries, it's you know, how who is going to help them build You know an economy that can withstand the impacts of climate change even in the country, which is not emitting Very high at very high levels at the moment. So depending on where you are in your journey of development everybody's got a different challenge, and I think that Increasingly that's becoming a collective challenge, and it's understood by government are all the tools available to them to be easily Used and implemented. No, not yet Elena I Think the short answer is no And we have to be clear about that and at the government level the policymaker will respond to the pressure from society It will not take an initiative on its own about Any different sort of investment or priorities because he or she knows That it'll be sacked on the following day if it is not in agreement and has not reached a common Goal with the private sector and with the rest of society So for me the the pressure and the change is within the investor in the private sector the that Economic dynamo of a country that has to be the one that pushes for changes in policy That mobilizes the decision maker to to make the change the decision maker of government on its own Will not do that. I need to go and I still see that it is an exception more than the rule because 99% of those decision makers want to stay in their place number one number two they want to To satisfy the needs of the society and if the society is not asking for something different There won't be any change. That's the reality. All right. I'd like to open this up to the floor We've got about ten or so minutes I'm sure there are plenty of questions here if you could just just very very quickly in the sheet of Sun Overall Concerning in the climate issue and energy issue All necessary hardware must be prepared. Of course after you find out the best energy mix But that's not sufficient In order to solve with this climate change issue Not only public sector and private sector But also all nation people should start to tackle To reduce the usage of energy as much as possible So recently all over the world Everybody is conscious of environmental issue I don't think everybody is conscious of the necessity of Power saving or reduction of energy It takes time we need to educate and we need to enlighten people So that they pay special attention to the usage of electricity practice what you preach. This is very important Okay, thank you sir If you could just excuse me if get a microphone here this gentleman here if you could just state your name and your affiliation, please Thank you. Good morning. I'm Bobby, but I'm back out from Dow Chemical As a Filipino It is frustrating To think about that the Philippines has been a good example of implementing a lot of environmental policies We have we probably have one of the highest percentage of renewable energy in our energy mix Policies and regulations is Very stringent compared to a lot of ASEAN countries So we're a good follower of what is good and right and yet it pains us to think that the the most devastating event would happen in the country so So that tells us that it's it's it's not enough to put these things in place But there's it has to be much more two things it says one is that it is a regional and a global problem And we know that but I think there are still things that falls into the cracks like education and awareness I think media pointed out that Yolanda or Tacloban tragedy is not unique it happened what 60 70 years ago in the 1910s in the same spot where is it for 4,000 or 5,000 people died in the same place. So it happened in the same place. So I think that is That is very important awareness of everybody There's little mention about the provinces that what where Yolanda also passed but had very little casualties Because they they were able to disseminate the information right away. So but the point I'm making is this this session is about Growth smart growth. So a couple of a couple of things I'd like to mention is that it Going back to the country. We do have We we do have a lot of renewable energy. We are one of the largest geothermal producers in the world We would suggest to to the businessman it say manufacturers to Given that the cost of producing power here will be expensive because of because of our endowments and because of the our choices of renewable energy maybe one can position yourself as To the consumers as a producer of an iPhone made from Geothermal energy or would you buy it from an iPhone made from coal? I think there will be opportunities there So you a question? Yes So the question is I was getting to it. Sorry. I think we we should bring I would like the panelists to to tackle more on What would be the opportunities? Given climate change meaning Where are the opportunities when you have higher temperature? Where are the opportunities when you have more carbon dioxide? Which is probably an agriculture. I think that would be a more proactive the positive positive climate change Rachel perhaps we could start with you. Well, I you know, I don't think there were I know There's a conversation that you know if you live in the middle of Siberia You know climate change is a good thing Because it's a little warm. I think that's ridiculous. I don't think this is a benign Gentle warming of the planet by two degrees. This is bringing volatile weather. It's going to disturb systems We don't know how to make decisions for uncertainty. So I so but where are the opportunities? The opportunities are in In the jobs that will have to be created in the clean low-carbon closed-loop technologies, right? So that's huge energy efficiency in Industrial manufacturing those are going to be where the jobs are going to be the jobs are going to be in the new ways of farming That allow you to produce those yields at lower cost the jobs are going to be in the new seed distribution Systems that will allow the rural poor to grow food that feeds them on marginal land under climate change So I think that and I think you see more and more companies factoring that in you also see a very interesting conversation now going on within the Financial sector within the regulation of the financial sector about if it so if we want to decarbonize and if we want to move away from carbon, what is the The risk of being exposed to significant carbon in your investment portfolio You know is there a risk to a world where we're over investing in the oil and gas industry if we think that carbon is a Is a commodity or a currency in the neck in this century that we don't want to be heavily exposed to and so this concept of a Carbon bubble and the beginning of some movement of investors out of high-carbon industries into low-carbon is I think at very very early days. I don't think the data is robust yet I don't think the analysis is robust, but you're starting to see That movement and so there's the beginning of market signals that you do want to be in Low-carbon technologies You do want to be in solutions for this very different and more Unpredictable world and any company that is thinking about their long-term profitability is going to make start to be making choices About how to be in that business and I think that it isn't just an energy question, right? It's it's a question for agriculture is a question for forestry techniques It's a question for transport solutions and building and green building Which is a huge market in Southeast Asia the way we build and the way we live in in settlements This is enormous opportunities for jobs and technology So I you know I agree with you lander You know you've got to have the political will but it were beginning to see the beginning of that movement and that Shift in of opportunity and investment. All right. Thank you, right? so Hi, my name is K came. I'm a global shaper from the soul hub my question could be a little bit sensitive may be naive, but Energy is basically power. I think you know in the global context, you know in the oil era There was power in the Middle East and oil producers now We're going into climate, you know green energy It could be a coincidence, but right now the panels are mostly you know group to the people from the developed countries, right? So in the developing nations or in the region like in the Southeast Asian agents They tend to lag behind the development of technology and getting into green and climate energy And when I think about the storages that you're talking about like Countries who have better technology will make cheaper electricity and start exporting them and the power shift is there So is the international community thinking or should think about the balance in growth when it comes to shifting into green energy where the Developing nations don't lag behind again, and you know get on board with the development in a more equal way I think that's my question and how we're thinking about it. Maybe maybe in a kaosan the Better more equal development if you like including the entire world and then in the next round of energy development you know of course Sometimes the developing countries might have more difficulties of adapting to the new environment lack of technology and so on but at the same time Often the late comers have advantage of learning better from the experiences of The advanced countries and also they can invest in the better technology from the outset So in many countries like a Korea or Japan after the war and so on they had our advantage of investing in the new technologies new factories and new steep learning instead of I mean I Mean the food to the traditional way So there can be advantage, but the same time as I said earlier the climate change issues Should be solved by the international community as a whole so there should be some support from the advanced Communities and also finance One thing I think at least for solar I think the Germans and the Italians and Spanish have subsidized the world to a level where we've gone to Critical mass where it's cheap enough for the developing countries as well. So I think in that sense I think the developed countries have actually subsidized that technological development and I think Also because renewable energy like solar or wind. I think it's very distributed and very democratic So I think it's you have sun and wind Whether you're in a developed country or a developing country. So I think in that sense. I think we're making advances Gentlemen here in the white shirt Microphone Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm Jeff Littman and I'm from the Global Agenda Council on I think we now call it new tourism Our sector has been identified throughout this conference and at other weft meetings as one of the potential drivers of the new growth and and It is a driver of jobs and widely recognized in this region as having a huge potential Particularly with China and India at the same time It's incredibly vulnerable the weather is at the heart of our product We build on the coast 80 percent is small and medium enterprises And we are totally connected to infrastructure transport systems And if you brought the leaders of my industry into this discussion They wouldn't understand what you're talking about. That's the first It's a problem for us and the second thing is the big area the base of the pyramid They don't even get to understand that this discussion is going on. So my question is to your lander the good your lander You talked about new coalitions Is your organization ready to take a serious look at our sector which is so interrelated with the Natural capital of the environment and of conservation and look at some ways to get this very important sector To make a change in the way it looks at these issues and acts on these issues. Thank you Thank you, and the response is yes Although we have prioritized medium and and small Programs and and companies Basically because they are benefitting local communities and in communities that don't have many options for economic development And we are doing that in Nepal and in I don't know Botswana and in Ecuador and and what is interesting there is that there is a very open Mind on the part of those of those Individuals to get into renewable energies to make things differently from the from the traditional ones and and with success we are seeing communities in Nepal for example that are living with biogas and generating services to tourists That are dependent on on the local Assets on the biodiversity of that sector and of course for us nature is is Absolutely essential when talking about Tourism and successful tourism. So yes, we are working. There are very good results already Maybe the weakness still is that we need to upscale that move from the medium size and small size into a larger one We've got time for one more question just over here Thank you very much Thank you the reason I see or take a SM investments my question to the panel is what would you be your best case example of? Practical integrated solutions that you've partnered with with schools to prepare the next generation to mr. Kim's point Preparing them for a mindset for jobs that they're going to do so that there's a paradigm shift for them to embrace a world That's a little different and probably more difficult to manage What best case examples have you partnered with with this universities or grade schools so that they get into the mode They understand that there's a world before them that they have to embrace and to protect Thank you Rachel I don't I don't know that I've got to hand a best-case example of sort of an integrated educational sort of preparation But I do know that in in a number of In low-income middle-income countries you know preparing a workforce for For a future world is is number one priority and and just linking back to the earlier question You know we get our inspiration Not from the inertia in the developed world But from the speed with which middle-income countries and some low-income countries are trying to plan their future you know the reversal The move towards clean growth in You know in in Morocco and some of the things that Brazil has done and some of the things that Columbia has done and Mexico and South Africa and Tanzania and Nigeria and the Philippines on resilience and Korea and so I mean I think that That's where things are moving the fastest and that's where the education debate is the fastest in my spare time I teach Graduate students and I think that one of the conversations that we have as a faculty is that we don't want to be churning out You know PhDs in urban planning that don't understand Integrated water and disaster risk and resilience and Etc. Etc. So that's into the interdisciplinary nature of the response to this difficult and in some respects foreseeable and It's we're on Uncharted territory, right? I think that that's going to be one of the real challenges and the availability of that talent then to Metro Manila or to metropolitan Jakarta, etc. Is going to be very important. Okay, Yolanda I'll have to ask you to give it reasonably brief because we are running. I will I will and the I don't think that the formal institutions are Using a different a Career or a different feel in which you can act what they are doing is planting the seed in the minds of those young people That you can be a that you can do something about it If we look at the global shapers that are sharing this conference with us They are a product of that of the concern they have when they leave school That something needs to be done and that they can do it Just to put my personal experience my own my own teenage children. They are acutely aware and Want to be involved on that note though. I'm afraid we're getting wrap-up signals rather frantic ones I'm afraid we've run out of time sir. I would if you'd just join me in thanking our very esteemed panel at Sutoshi Nishida, Rachel Kite, Yolanda Kakabatsi, Nakao-san and of course de Kakin. Thank you all so much for being on the panel As one of our co-chairs, I would like to give one simple message Toshiba and Toshiba group are always ready To respond to and serve any requests about energy Thank you Thank you