 Over 40 and seeing plateaus and strength, watch this. Our first caller is Chris from Wisconsin. What's up, Chris? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for having me. Of course. So I just turned 41, been lifting for a while consistently for probably 10 years. But one of the things that I've noticed really in the last six to eight months is when I run a strength base, so five by five or right now in maps, the static and the low rep, high weight range. I make pretty good progress for a couple of weeks and adding weight to the bar and then I just get stuck. And the last time I ran a five by five at first two or three weeks, great. And then I just get stuck and can't seem to get anywhere. So I'm just wondering, is this an age thing? Is it something I should be doing different? How can I change my training to so I don't get plateaued or stuck like that? Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here. So I'm gonna start with... Can we ask a couple more? I wanna know how long you've been training for. Yeah, he said many years, that's where I was gonna go. How many years have you been consistently working out? Assistantly, strength training, probably about five or six years or so. Okay, okay. Now, are you noticing improvements in plateaus and then do you maintain those plateaus until you cycle out, go back in and then improve again? Or does it go down and up? It goes down and up. Yeah. So there's a couple of things that we need to unpack here. Now, the first thing is that you may be only measuring your progress by one metric, which might not be the only metric you need to look at. Okay, so at some point, you're not gonna keep getting stronger, right? So at some point, there's limits to the amount that you're gonna be able to lift. Like, look, you and I are close in age. I don't look at strength gains like I used to because I'm not gonna... I mean, if I was always gonna progress in strength, by now I'd be bench pressing a thousand pounds. So strength, although it's a great metric, it's one of my favorite metrics to look at, it's not the only metric. So you can also look at control, you can look at stability, mobility, range of motion, feel, connection, the pump, of course, stamina, endurance. These are all other metrics you might wanna measure because you've been working out for so long and because of your age, you might not wanna always look at strength. Now, the other thing I'd like to comment on is that it's not unusual for someone to progress for a few weeks and then plateau, which is why we phase all of our programs, right? And when we phase our programs in like a phase one, for example, of Maps and Ebola, we are looking at strength, but by the time we get to phase two and three, I don't care so much about how strong you are, but rather how's the feel, how's the pump? Are you noticing better pumps in your workouts or getting better connected? How's your technique in your form? So you wanna look at all this stuff and if you look at progress, if we were to chart somebody's progress after, if it's the first year, we see relatively linear strength gains, right? I'm assuming your first year of training, you saw relatively consistent strength gains in most of your lifts, but when you stretch that out to, you know, three years, five years, six years, 10 years. It's increasingly difficult. Yeah, and it's not linear. It looks more like a step ladder and it comes down a little bit and it goes up a little bit and then if we start to chart other things like, my squat depth, my control, my pain, learning new exercises and stamina, then we see that we tend to trend upwards, but it doesn't look like this wonderful consistent line. You have to kinda look at the big picture. Now of course, you know, there could be an issue with diet, there could be an issue with sleep. You might be doing too much for your body. Like those are all the obvious things that because I'm assuming you probably looked at a lot of that considering you've been working out as long as you have. So I have, you know, my real first foray in the strength training was the five by five and I've been listening to you guys for a long time and I've run aesthetic twice and got tremendous results just because the hardest thing for me was to hear what you guys talk about so much as do, which is what you're not, which is getting out of that low rep, you know, grind and so yeah, I have been lifting for a while and I've tempered down the volume. I mean, three days for me is 23 hard days. So yeah. Well, that brings up another potential point there too is you've been, not only have you been training, you know, pretty consistent for so many years, but the way you were training consistently for so many years was it sounds like primarily five by five. So we're gonna see probably the least amount of gains in progress in as far as weight and strength in the five by five. But I mean, are you paying attention to your, when you're in the 10 to 12 rep range, like how is that getting better? Like, are you able to do more weight when you move into a phase like that because you haven't been doing it as long and are you still progressing in other phases? So the phase one of MAPS anabolic is gonna be the hardest for you to see the most results from because it's what your body is most used to. So where I would be looking for the greatest gains or change or progression would be when I'm actually doing things that I hadn't been doing that consistently like a new exercise, a new way of training, a different modality, stuff like that, form and technique, depth, range of motion, that type of thing is what I'd be kind of focused on right now and trying to progress in those areas. Is there, Chris, is there like a specific lift that you would like to see really go up? Is it, or is it just in general? I think in general, my bench has always been the one that I've had the most trouble with. And I'd like to get to that three, four, five plate that I think every guy wants to get to. I've realized I'm just maybe not gonna get there, but I just always struggle with my bench. Just cannot, just adding weight to it is just, it's really tough. And that's always the one that I've been the weakest on. Are you, so it sounds like strength is your favorite thing about training. Have you looked at our MAPS power lift program? I have not. I've run aesthetic twice. I love the mobility program you guys got. No, I have not. Yeah, let me send you MAPS power lift because that's a, strength is interesting. Strength is an interesting metric. Now I like it for most people, but it gets a little weird as you get more advanced. Like I've seen people lose weight and muscle mass and increase their amount of weight they can lift on specific exercises because their skill and technique got better. You see this in power lifting, especially in the weight classes. I've also seen people gain lots of muscle size with a very small concurrent rise in muscle and strength. So you'll see like a power lifter convert to bodybuilding gain 30 pounds of muscle, but they only get like 10 pounds stronger in many of their lifts. And some of the lifts don't go up at all. So it's very interesting once you get to a particular level. Now, if I'm talking to the average person I'm talking to, especially if I'm talking to a newbie, like strength is wonderful, let's go after it. But once you get more advanced, it's a very interesting metric and it can change because of technique and form and how, you know, how amped your CNS is and you can also build muscle without getting stronger because of other factors. It'd be interesting if technique was the part of this equation that was sort of limiting your progress as well. And I think that a lot of people kind of don't really attribute that as maybe a factor of just polishing and refining, you know, the actual mechanics of the lift and really like hyper focusing on it. So that means practicing it a lot, but, you know, really, you know, monitoring your intensity around it. So it's appropriate for you to progress and adapt. So I think that powerlifting, you know, in my opinion is probably a great shift for you to focus into. I would also, if you were a client of mine or even a friend of mine, even Chris, I would try and persuade you. I know we just went and talked about powerlifting and I would love to see you do it, but I'd also like to try and persuade you to change our goals too a little bit, right? Cause, you know, you've been, you've been doing the five by five thing. You've been a very, you know, strength focused metric is what you've been paying attention to. Sounds like you have listened to some of the advice we've given, so you're starting to move out of the phases. I mean, the next progression for me as a coach for you would be like, okay, now I've at least got you dabbling in other phases. Now, actually let's talk about different goals. Like how about we really work on getting your squat depth or your technique on a certain lift or how about I teach you a new, like I don't know if you've done Turkish getups or done move like circus press. Let's look at focus on a new conventional list. Yeah, exactly. Do something different and set some goals so you have something to kind of pursue and watch yourself progress. And I find that there's definitely a mental advantage to doing this with yourself. I mean, for me, this is the only thing that's allowed me to be lifting consistently for 20 years is that I'm constantly also changing my goals. And a lot of times it's not necessarily because I really want to. It's that I think it's kind of a mental game that I'm playing with myself. It's like, okay, I've been chasing this, you know, I wanna look a certain way and get shredded and be this bodybuilder guy for so long. You know what, what if I'd completely disrupt that and go, I'm gonna be mobility guy and I'm not gonna think about weights. I know I'm gonna get a little bit weaker. I don't really care. I know I can always get that back. Now I'm just gonna see how mobile can I get? How deep can I get my squats? And can I get rid of some of this pain that I was dealing with in my hips? Like, and I shift my goal. And it gives, and what's nice is when you shift to a new goal that you've never really focused on like that before, that you get to experience some of those progressions like you got when you were a newbie again, because it's kind of a new thing. But when you're still chasing the I wanna get stronger, I wanna get stronger. Yeah, you're changing phases, but you're still in that mindset. Sometimes it can get a little discouraging because it just doesn't come on like that anymore like it used to. Yeah, I do think you'll like Maps Powerlift though, just from what I'm hearing about what you enjoy doing. I think you'll like that program. I think you'll see the strength games that you're looking for. Oh, thanks guys. I really appreciate it. And congrats on your success. You guys are awesome. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, keep us posted, man. See you guys. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's, it is interesting, right? Once you get to a certain level, strength is interesting. Like we were talking to Ben Pollock who gained like what, 80 pounds of mass and his strength was kind of what it was when he was competing at 190 pounds. You know, as a power lifter versus now as a bodybuilder, right? But he's gained so much muscle. So it is interesting. And it's when you get stuck on a metric, at some point you're screwed. Like I don't care what that metric is, muscle size, endurance, stamina, build like strength. Well, I think Adam, your vice is sound, but it's again, it's a hard one to sell. So I, you know, and I think that obviously like what drew him in is more the strength side and the focus of training was really like, you know, where he finds his happy place. But I think it would be great and beneficial for him to venture outside of that and really think broader about, you know, how to benefit his body and be motivated by other factors. But I also like, yeah, power lift will be that hyper focus on it and polishing and refining the technique will, I think at least, you know, get him to a place where he's like, man, I'm stoked about my strength again. Listen, I'd be walking around depressed every day if I attached my training success specifically to strength or my aesthetics. Since I believe I've probably reached close to my peak of both of those. I think I've seen some of my strongest days ever of lifting. I also for sure have seen my best physique that I'll probably ever build. And if I still, and if I attached my success in the gym today or my progress in the gym today to those metrics that I care so much about for so many years, I would be fucking depressed all the time. I'm nowhere near my squat bench dead PRs. I'm nowhere near my look that I had on stage. And the way that I still enjoy lifting and I still keep coming back is that I constantly am reframing my goals and changing why I'm here. My purpose is different. That's the downfall of getting so fixated on a single metric that you love or you like with training is eventually you will hit the peak of that. It reminds me of when I had to concede to the fact that my identity isn't wrapped up in being an athlete anymore. I have to think about this differently. I have to think about it about what benefits my body, what makes me feel good, what keeps me pain free. And so that has to be a mental shift that you have to be honest with yourself and just have that conversation of what else can I focus on that's gonna keep me going long term. Maybe I'll come back, revisit some of that. But right now, I still need to think more holistically about this. The dream is to do this forever, right? Till the day you die to be able to stay mobile and continue to stay active. I don't care how awesome you are, you're not gonna be your best when you're 70, physically or performance wise. So what a tough position to be in if that's what you identify with. You're gonna be screwed, man. It's not gonna work. If you talk to people who've been doing this for a very, very long time, what they've done is they've fallen in love with the process and the result becomes a side effect and they don't identify anymore with the extreme performance and that stuff. You have to make that decision. You have to make that change and that conversion. Otherwise, like you said, you'll be totally screwed. Yeah, well, we tell people how healthy and good it is to focus on strength. But the truth is, you know, we're being very, I think very nice and easy on Chris because if this person was somebody who was identifying or comparing their look, you know, as their results and they're just not progressing anymore and they've already achieved this, we would harp on them about how you gotta, you gotta get out of that mindset. And honestly, it's no different with strength. At one point, you have to move out of that mindset also, although we think that's probably one of the healthiest places that most people should put their focus on initially. It doesn't mean that it doesn't have its potential drawbacks too. Totally. You can become wrapped up in, I mean, and we see this with our friends who were like professional power lifters. They were power lifters and they've been known as like, eventually the body says, I can't do 600 pound dead lifts anymore and you've gotta learn to focus on other things. Hey, if you enjoyed that clip, you can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here and be sure to subscribe.