 All right, this is a tough time of the day. So I hope you guys got some coffee. Try not to fall asleep on me, please. I will call you out if that happens. My name is Tara, and I am here to provide as much value and as many takeaways as possible. Thank you so much for joining me, and I will need to see what you're knitting after this, because I get super pumped for knitters. My name is Tara, and I own Alchemy 3, a web design and marketing agency in Concord, Massachusetts. We work with small businesses to amplify brand awareness, boost online visibility, and increase engagement. So in other words, we serve as a sort of virtual marketing department for a number of our clients. So to kick this thing off, how many people in the room are parents, quick show of hands, or are you aware of the existence of children? Do you understand their behavior? Okay. I'm part of the rumors of their existence. Right, okay, you're aware of the children, okay. So what I've come to realize that there is not a lot of differences between clients and kids, right? The main differences are usually, clients have slightly better vocabulary, they do have hopefully a longer attention span and their shoes are normally tied, unlike this guy on the left, who is my Henry, he is eight, on the right is my Mackey, and we also have six chickens that get aggressively snuggled every single day. Those are the main differences that I have noticed, and one thing that I've come to realize is that when it comes to dealing with clients, a lot of it has to do with managing expectations, keeping them focused, and helping them to understand that they're special. We all wanna know that we're special, someone is paying attention to us, and that we are in fact acknowledged, right? So you've been hired to provide some direction and semblance of order by your clients. They see comfort in that order, and knowing that information and support is in fact available. They don't necessarily want to consume that information, but making it available is important. So before I jump into managing clients, and of course blowing them away with our awesomeness and our ability to create these masterpieces on the web, I'd first like to talk about putting a system in place for qualifying your leads. Now what is a lead qualifier? A lead qualifier is basically a boundary or a series of boundaries or hoops that I am insisting that a prospect jump through, which allows me to determine whether or not they are a viable prospect. So this gives me a chance to make sure or to see if they're willing to follow my process. I can address the budget straight away. So you'll notice here, this is actually a snapshot of our lead qualifying worksheet. So if someone pings us and they're interested in say a web build, this is a five page form. I wanna make sure that they're willing to put in the extra time. This also helps to get the wheels turning a little bit and it helps me to bring in some initial information. And at the bottom, which is the most important part, I have a budget range. So there's a dropdown. So immediately they know that we will not build a site for less than $5,000. This frees up more of your time. And of course, hopefully you're positioning yourself already in a way that your potential customers are aware of the services that you provide and the kind of service that you bring to the table. They already know a little bit about your business and range of expertise, but that is in a perfect world and it doesn't always work that way. So when a cold lead reaches out wanting more information, they wanna schedule a call. I will send them to this worksheet. It doesn't necessarily need to be fancy. This was built with gravity forms. Very easy to set up, but you could also send them a PDF, a Word document, whatever that looks like is fine. I do want to give credit where credit is due. This is not my idea. This came from Troy Dean of WP Elevation. He is a mentor of mine and I've been in his program for almost two years now. Highly recommended, if you wanna hear more, talk to me after the talk. So let's say that you have received a lead qualifying form. You have set up a 15 minute quick conversation with said client and now you need to sit down with your team or yourself and put together a quick and dirty client scorecard. This is a five minute exercise and what we do is we rank budget, project and levels of respect on a scale of one to five. So based on, I mean, budget is obviously self-explanatory, right? If they have loads of cash, all ACEs were good to go. Project, by that I mean, is it interesting? Is it gonna look good on your portfolio? Will you be learning new skills? Is it gonna open doors? Are they well connected, right? Could this potentially lead to other work? So those are other kinds of things to consider. For me, the most important one is probably respect. I wanna make sure that they are not tacking down to myself or my team, that they're not bulldozing me in the conversation and that there is a mutual respect. So we also have that on our scorecard as well. So once we've ranked everything on a scale of one to five, we will total all of those things up. Three to six is a solid note. Seven, 11 is a maybe, 12 to 15 is a pretty solid yes. So things are looking good, right? They were on a 12 plus scale. You're excited about the project so now it's time to put the pitch together. So before I jump into communicating and managing your clients, I'd like to talk about making that pitch, getting the business and gaining your client's trust. So first of all, you wanna make sure that all of the decision makers are in the room, right? And that's actually one of the questions that I ask on my lead qualifying form. I've had meetings in the past where I'm aware that there are two different decision makers. I go to the meeting, there's only one. I'm going to reschedule because that is a waste of my time. It's a waste of everybody's time, to be honest. And it's important for them to understand that I have other things I could be doing and I have other clients that I can be talking to, right? So very kindly, I'm happy to reschedule this meeting. I would really like everyone to be there. You wanna appeal to the emotional brain. So it's important that when you go into these meetings, you become a friend first, right? They wanna make sure that they can trust you. You're a likable human. You're not a robot coming in and talking about your services, right? You wanna warm them up. You wanna be a kind person, make some eye contact, make a little small talk. Our brains do hate salespeople. So please don't talk about yourself the whole time. You wanna speak to their specific industry and niche as much as you can. So our brains have a frighteningly short attention span that's getting shorter by the day. So once you've warmed them up a little bit, get to the point, right? You've established some small talk. Hopefully they've decided you're a likable human. Now get to the nitty gritty. And the best way to resonate with the client is to gear your information toward what is in it for them, right? You need to appeal to their emotional brain by first connecting the dots, appealing to their needs, goals, concerns, and opportunities. You wanna make sure that you are helping them solve the problem. They don't need to understand the nitty gritty of said problem. They don't need to know about the plugins and web security or any of that kind of stuff. They just wanna make sure that you're gonna do what needs to be done. Once you've gotten the emotional brain's attention and you've made it clear that you're helping them solve a problem or pain point, you are more likely to have their full attention. And again, you wanna make sure that you are speaking the language of your client's industry. Again, make sure you do your homework before you go into these meetings and that you can speak to their world. So you got the gig. Woohoo. Yay. So, now that you got this going, we need to consider crystal clear contracts. I've been burned by this so many times. It's about guaranteed anything that's not mentioned in the contract will come up. Absolutely. I actually know some people that have no contracts. It's all word of mouth and handshake and it drives me totally insane. But it works for them. That's great. Not so much with me. So you wanna make sure that you're very clear on expectations, not just from your end, but from their end as well. You wanna cover payment terms, copyrights, sign-offs, termination, all of that nitty gritty stuff. Hire a lawyer and just get it done. And you wanna be very clear about your process and you wanna gather as much information upfront as you can. Make a solid effort to communicate how the project is going to roll out. So, what are the tools that you're using? Is there a learning curve, right? So, will you be bringing your clients in on an Asana project? Is there a project management tool that you're using? If so, perhaps you need to put together a quick video tutorial so that they have the basic understandings because a lot of people, they're brain short circuit and they're like, I don't wanna learn any new things. But if you lay it out for them, that will help ease the pain of learning something new. You wanna schedule regular check-in meetings. So say this is an ongoing retainer client, perhaps bi-monthly or once a week. You wanna have a set meeting, 10 to 10.30 every single Thursday. It's on the calendar. Required sign-offs. For every single phase in a project, we do require sign-offs before we can move forward. And a tool that I love to use for that is HelloSign. It's digital, it's legally binding, it's super, super easy. And then also be very clear about your client, your content due dates, right? Because content does tend to be the bane of everybody's existence. And if there's one thing that's gonna drag a project on forever, it's going to be content. So what we like to do when we bring on a new client is we do have an onboarding document that we send to them. This welcomes them. And you can certainly do this by email. This is just a Word doc that's been linked so that they can jump to the various pages. You could even record a quick video giving a brief overview of your process as well. And you can reuse that time and time again. I think that's fancy and smart and takes a lot of the legwork out of it. But this onboarding document often covers how to best get in touch with us. We are available nine to five Monday through Friday. Please do not text me on the weekends. That's totally inappropriate. Do you have a support team? Is there a support email that people should be using? Is there a project management tool, general expectations in terms of feedback and revisions? So we like to try to keep as much out of email as possible. And so we have a system in place for collecting everything for two phases of revisions, right, so that we can take care of that and one fell swoop. And so we lay that all out for our clients as well. And you may wanna touch on web care as well. If you have a web care program, you want them to be aware of that out the gate before you start building a site so that they understand that that's something that needs to be on their radar. And I also like to gather a lot of key information up front. So Google login, WP access, C panel, added as an admin for social media stuff, whatever the case may be, get that all over with so that you have it in the bank and you can use it moving forward and you don't need to contact the client every other day. So much like small children, clients always want explicit parameters and guidelines which is totally understandable. We all wanna know what's gonna happen next and we wanna know what the timeline looks like and we wanna make sure that the people we've paid good money to are motivated to complete the project, right? So once we've sent the onboarding document off and we've put together some regular meetings, I will also put together a pretty project timeline. That's easy to read, the client can print it out, they can hang it on their wall and refer to it over and over again so that they understand that we have recurring meetings to share updates. Content is due at the beginning, which is a key component of this. Digital sign-offs are also mandatory and we're motivated to get this thing done. So in general, I would recommend integrating the following. So firstly, under promise and over deliver whenever you can. So be super generous to yourself and your team and add in lots of padding to the timelines that you can always deliver early or at the very, very least on time, right? It's all about keeping the client informed and being kind to yourself and your team. If you have regular touches with the client and they know that you're on it, building in that padding is only going to help build the relationship. I would also include weekly updates and these could be very quick and templated emails just to pull the client in so they understand that work is in fact getting done. So this could include tasks completed, incoming tasks and what you need from the client. End of story, that's it. And then an email curfew. So a lot of people have boundary issues when it comes to email. Oftentimes you'll get a client who expects a response within an hour which is completely inappropriate. We need time. We have our day is scheduled in such a way that we can't be available by email all the time. So I like to tell my clients that we will get back to them within 24 hours. We don't answer emails on the weekend and perhaps give them the email to the dedicated support team if you do in fact have one of those. And lastly, I would also consider putting a dormant clause in your contracts. So for those of you who are not familiar with what this is, what it means is if a project, if a client goes dark and I save for 10 or more days, the project goes on hold and it costs X amount of dollars to reinstate the project. Because I can't wait for them. I can't hold that space. I have other clients that need attention. I have a family to take care of. I have a business of my own. And so it's important for them to respect our time and to understand that we got other stuff we gotta do. So, of course you could be very pleasant about it, be upfront, transparent, all of that business and then just refer back to the contract if they suddenly decide to disappear. So content is the bane of every web designer's existence. I have had projects go on for literally years because I was waiting on content. Yes, can I get an omnia? I'm so glad I'm not the only one. God, it's such a nightmare. So again, going back to the contract, you wanna make sure that content collection is essential. Right? If you don't receive it, you'll continue with the project, right? You'll put in a bunch of dummy copy, rock out with Laura Mipson, like nobody's business and you're holding up your end of the deal, right? And again, if they go dormant, it's gonna cost X number of dollars to reactivate. And this all goes back to making sure that your client is respectful of your time. Now, a lot of people struggle with content. And oftentimes people don't wanna deal with it. And I get it, I don't really like to write myself. So what we do if we encounter some hiccups and we're having a hard time getting that content, we will offer to put them in touch with a copywriter, right? That they can then hire. Hopefully the conversation happens beforehand and you can hire someone internally or a trusted writer and you can tack that into the project. But if it's an unanticipated hiccup, then you can connect them with a writer. You could run a content planning workshop as well. So take half a day. Again, you are billing the client, but you could bring in a writer. You could all be on site, four hours, hammer that out, get it done, have them sign off at the end of the day and you're done. I also have a couple of tools for collecting content. Oh, one other comment. If you're unfamiliar with the industry, that your client is in, you could also hire a writer to sit down and have an interview with them, right? So a video chat or over the phone in person, of course, is always best, but I've had, that's looked like a charm in the past for us. I just wanna share a couple of content collection tools. You know, try an entry Dropbox. Everyone's familiar with this. It's very, I still get pushed back on Dropbox from clients, believe it or not, but a quick video tutorial hopefully can clear that up. So make it very simple. Put this file structure together for content. This is gonna free up your inbox. That's key, keeping as much out of your inbox as possible. And then make sure that they realize that they can in fact leave comments in the sidebar so you can kind of work together that way. Google Docs is amazing for this kind of thing. You can have suggested edits and you can kind of work back and forth that way. But some sort of collaborative content collection tool is certainly our best friend. This has worked pretty well for us. Another really interesting approach that we've been using recently, and again, I need to give credit where credit is due, my friend Simon Kelly of Renegade Empire showed this to me. So Trello, we're all pretty familiar with Trello, right? So if you have, say, a regular recurring client, maybe you're doing digital marketing for them and you have certain benchmarks that you wanna hit, but you don't wanna be receiving emails from them like five times a day every single day. I will put one of these together. I will invite the client. They have a wish list. They can see what's in progress. They can see what's been completed. And then when we have our regularly scheduled meetings, this is when we can start to address what's in the wish list, what's top priority. Here's the time that we're looking at, do you need more time, right? Do we need to increase the spend? And then you're not being bombarded and constantly interrupted throughout your day. So now that you have a system for collecting what you need from a client, now you need to establish regular points of contact. So we all know that it costs way more money to acquire new clients than to hold on to and continue to work with existing clients. You wanna make sure that your clients feel special and that you are in fact paying attention to them. So having regular touch points is key and is incredibly important. You wanna be thinking about how you can add value and surprise your clients staying top of mind whenever you can. So I have a couple suggestions here for value ads that you can incorporate into your regular recurring retainer clients. You could run webinars, right? That could be pre-recorded, it could be live, you could run a Q&A, whatever that looks like. And then those are digital assets that you're building. You can reference over time. You can give those away for free to other clients that you're trying to bring into the funnel, whatever that looks like, but that's value. And then that's something that's also valuable to your team because you can use that over and over again. You could put together a client dashboard. CIF is a very good tool, cif.com, C-Y-F-E. That can pull in information from Google Analytics, social media, paperclip stuff, whatever that looks like. It's nice and fancy. It gives people a nice 50-foot view of what's happening. And you could say, hey, we value you as a client. We were just thinking maybe this is something you'd be interested in. Here have it. Go nuts, right? People would really appreciate that. You could toss them some consultation calls and some regular check-ins. My favorite of all of these, I have to say, is a private Facebook group. This is something that we've started recently called the Alchemy Business Accelerator. And what it does is it's a safe space for small business owners to ask us questions, engage in conversation, forge relationships with other small business owners. And it gives us ways to kind of give them challenges, hold them accountable, and leads do start to come in from that group as well. So the project is finished and your clients are super pumped. You built a website and they're thrilled, or maybe you've increased online sales by 150%. Whatever the case, now's the time to strike while the iron is hot. So before you hit the bar with your colleagues, make sure that you ask for reviews, right? Especially if you guys, well, it doesn't even matter. I mean, if you're a local business, but I say across the board, you wanna get those reviews and I'm not talking testimonials, which are also lovely, those are fantastic, but legitimate reviews on Google, Facebook, Yelp, pick your poison, though I think Google is the best because it does help with your rankings. You wanna work that into your process and don't miss an opportunity to ask for those reviews because you probably won't get them unless you ask. And you could also be asking your clients if they're looking for referrals, right? You know, I've seen what your business can do, I'm really excited, what's your ideal client? Who should we be looking at and be considering when thinking about your business? So it's, I scratch your back, you scratch mine kind of thing. And that's it. Thanks. I have all of the slide stuff is here and if you're interested in joining the Facebook group, hop over, it'd be awesome. I try to provide as much value as I can and that's it. Does anybody have questions? So it's called, the tool that I've seen other people use, I haven't used it myself. C-Y-F-E. F-E. Mm-hmm. How is this called again? C-Y-F-E.com. If you are, I might have a couple other resources. I'm part of a business mastermind, so I can ask, I know that they're using dashboards as well. So if you're looking to get into that, I can give you some other ideas. Mm-hmm. Do you have any concern that this project would take for about the form, would it be a concern if it's sort of an informal, or if it's an informal sales process, or something that's like a word of mouth, that would be fine? Yeah. I've said it right before. Totally, totally. Yes, so I would say if it's a word of mouth referral, like if it came from a trusted referral source, that could look really different, right? I mean, the main reason, so I come in contact with a lot of mom and pop, small business owners, people that I get really, really excited to help, and the problem is we sit down, we have awesome 45-minute conversation, and then they're like, we only have $800. And I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna work. You know, like, great. Like, I just, I need them to understand, I need to anchor them somehow. So you can also anchor them within the conversation, as well. I have like a free 15-minute accelerator call that I do as well, and so I'll hop on the phone or do a video chat, and give them a couple takeaways as quickly as I can, and then also try to get a feel for their budget, because otherwise it just becomes a huge time suck. Another thing that I like to do, and maybe you guys are doing this already, but oftentimes people don't know what they need or they want, so I'll run a discovery session, which is 550 bucks, two hours, we sit down, we talk about all kinds of stuff. I will give them a report, which they can then shop around if they want. They don't have to hire us, but here we've been paid upfront, and then if they bring us on to do a bigger project, I take that 550 and apply it to the project. So that means you, that is old. It seems like sometimes they're using you to build an arm to create. It's bananas, and I'm sick of doing it. And I've sold this year probably 15 discovery sessions, and 75% of the time they end up hiring us. Yeah, that's old. Yeah, so that works really well. If you want more information, shoot me an email and I'll be happy to show you what we do. Yeah? This might be a question mark for lower-level sites, but have you ever encountered where you get content from the client that is just not good enough? Yeah, it's really shitty. Yeah. It's not a lot of stuff about insulting them, or if they don't have a budget to do it again, especially if they hired somebody already, you're like, this is a fucking awful, because then they don't like the product at the end. And then they're like, what's crazy about working, and you discuss with them, and they won't hire a copywriter, and that's it. I mean, I think it's a, you get what you pay for kind of conversation, right? So, if they're gonna hire someone off of Fiverr to crank out some content, and English isn't their first language, like, you know, I would maybe ask them about sites that resonate with them, and take a look at that copy, and then ask them to maybe compare and contrast a little bit. I mean, those can be tough conversations, but again, you're the expert, and you're the person that they're looking to, to provide them some semblance of direction, and it's better that it happens earlier rather than later, right? So, you know, I'd say this just isn't really what I think, I don't think it's doing your business justice, right? You could take it from that angle, and then offer to put them in touch with a trusted copywriter. Great, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's important to charge an off-off crime there, that way you don't make the cheapskates and fire-makers. Absolutely. Get a follow-up every week. That's right. Yeah. There's no benefit, how serious they are of them, what they want them to write a check on. Yep, that's absolutely right. To that point, how do you address that when it's somebody that's maybe friends, or if they have a member or a little friend, and you want to give them maybe a discount, but you really want them to late the first start. No more discounts, no discounts. You're like a hollow one, like, okay, you only charge $6,000 if you're going to do it for fun. I love it. So I've learned some really hard lessons there. I'm maybe not the best person to ask. I've learned not to do work. I'm just trying to ask if maybe there are ways. I think that just positioning yourself and being very upfront at the gate, and I think a lot of it is having some documentation in place where you're sort of like, this is boilerplate, if you want to take a peek at this, I'm happy to share with you information on how we generally put a site together. This is what the pricing looks like, and then let that uncomfortably silence it, right? Don't fill the space, and don't try to validate yourself to them, because you are worth every single penny, right? And you are the expert, and they are coming to you for a reason, and maybe you shouldn't do this kind of thing, because you're worth what you're worth. And there's a really good chance that you are going to kick some serious ass because they're a friend. You are going to go above and beyond, right? Already. So your price is your price, and you know you're going to put more work into that site because they're friends. But I think that starting off at a discounted rate, and what I've learned is people who come from a place of do not come from a place of abundance, right? That's when they will nickel and dime you to death, unfortunately. Also, I've just found that with the most, that people who can afford it the most. Yeah, people are weird. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I would just, realizing your worth is probably step one, right? And just letting them know you're going to do really a job and that you're going to be worth everything. Like I said, you got to get rid of the time and pictures very early in the process. And it's hard. And when you're just starting out, it's tough, right? Because you're hungry in the beginning, and you do come from a place of scarcity, but you're not going to have room for the good stuff if you're constantly taking the turkeys, right? You're not going to be able to be taking the turkeys. Yeah. You kind of do it as a percentage of your fellow now who is a step fee, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, the step fee right now is 500 bucks to reinstate the project. I think I'm going to increase it to 1,000. They got to have some skin in the game. They need to understand that. It's a great order for them not to get going. Yeah, exactly, right? I mean, they want to get the project going too, in theory. Well, they also don't really act like all is fine, but that happened. They were like, OK, I'm ready to go and edit it. And like, I'm 30 days out. I'm going to move a project. Right, they're like, I am not exactly like you just can't hold that time aside. And I'd like to be like, that's it. I don't have that clause. 12, 1, 8, 30 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate you saying that. You'll notice I kind of started suffering a little bit. The most recent company that I worked for had a new website that had been ready for two years. It sounds content. Ready paid for down two years. Same. Minus content, which was not the person's first language. French, so close to the sound. But still, it was not good. It was horrible. Luckily, I haven't been being used. So I literally took my last two weeks there. And I was like, you're getting this website before you did. And I just dished out all the content. Wow. And the SEO, which the company that created the website did not believe in, which I think is hilarious. But yeah, it will. So yeah, I just, I was like, this is what I'm doing. I gave them three weeks of wrestling. I said, this is what I'm doing for the last two weeks here, because you need this. And it took off. Please, just from a good point, you can't be too democratic in this whole thing. Sometimes you've got to be a dictator in the block. It was so bad. Yeah, right. But this was a company that I worked for. Like, they're the ones that had paid for this. And the company who created it had just let it sit. And luckily, didn't charters ran state-of-the-art because they wouldn't be able to pay it. Which is why I love it. Because they didn't see their money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Which is going to be a good time. Right. But granted, this is another situation where two years this has been paid for since 2016. And it's now. Well, that's awesome. That's really exciting. So it had been sitting because the content hadn't. Nothing from the client. Nothing from the company that I worked for. Even in French. Even in French. Nobody had time. You couldn't use Google Translate. Right, no. It's not in the language. No, it was just that the content they had written was horrific and not accurate. Oh, I actually have another quick tip for you guys that I haven't vetted myself. But I've got, I have some trusted colleagues that have used this. It's called textbroker.com. So if you guys run social media stuff, say you need to do some blogging for clients, et cetera, et cetera, you can put in content orders. And I hear it's solid. Textbroker. Yeah, textbroker.com. So put that in your back pocket just in case we need it. Yeah. Your name is the project manager. Where do you come from? I am the project manager. I mean, it's not what I want to be doing. But yes, I'm doing a little bit of project work. Are you a project manager? Now I'm responsible to people. Yeah. So I do a lot of that very time consuming. What are your tools? Very time consuming. Our tools right now. So we use Asana to write all of our processes. We use Slack for internal communication. I mean, we use teamwork a little bit, but I use it in a very weird way. And that has to do with our web care programs that we do, our web care plans. Those are probably our main tools at the moment. Anybody else? Yeah. I'm just talking about fellow. I really try to get a couple of my clients to use it. And I really like it. It works really well for me. But this summer, I couldn't get an added of just checking me out. And they just couldn't seem to wrap their mind around it. I don't know what the best. I wasn't sure whether to try to spend more time doing one tutoring session with them or to just let them do email. But it did really frustrate me because I wanted them to prioritize some of their tasks. Yeah, right. Just with the website. But sometimes I was doing a lot of business technological solutions for them. They would just think of something, email it to me. And I was like, is this the top of the stack now? Or is it like below this? Well, and then that's taking time away. Then you're forced to multitask. And you're putting out fires as opposed to scheduling your day in a way that makes sense and it enables you to be efficient. So my suggestion to you would be give Trello another go. Use Loom to create a video. And then make an loom.com. This is what I use to communicate with my team constantly. So they're quick videos. You're sharing your screen. You're talking through whatever. And then you can organize it in a library, which I haven't done any organizing. But you could actually hand this off to a teammate and then say, watch this. Create a process in Asana, Google Docs, whatever. But that's a really nice way to make quick videos for clients. You could make a library and reference them in the future. But there's a good chance they just need someone to show them how to do it. And then something that they can be like, what is she saying we needed to do? And then they can watch the five minute video again. Yeah, I have the exact same problem with my clients that I like to use Trello. And just can't give them reference. You can't have content in them. You can't try them. No, it's a hot mess. And they just don't get it. And that's probably my hardest thing. And Trello can handle it. It's like, attach, and it's there, and we know where it is. I don't know, Dropbox. It seems like Dropbox and Trello, I try to think of, how can we keep it really simple? Yeah, they're so simple to use. That and Google Docs, those are the three. My problem with Google Docs is I had two names, a half of them, they don't have two names the rest of them. Hey, even though it's like, just fill it in. Once you do that, you're fine. They don't like to sign up for one more thing. Yeah, that's true. But I love Google Docs. I have half my client from Google Docs. And someone Trello, I wish I could use one. Oh, god, I know. Yeah, I know. So it's important to meet them where they are within reason. You don't want to burn a bunch of time trying to teach them how to do things. Am I joining to be done? I'm out of here. All right, thanks, you guys. Thank you.