 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? CBS News Correspondents Larry Lisser and Bill Costello. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the honorable Mike Mansfield, United States Senator from Montana. Sometimes it seems as though the Republican Party is pacific-minded, whereas the Democratic Party, at least when it was in power, was and is European-minded. But the voice of our guest tonight is just to be beginning to be heard on the subject of the Pacific. Senator Mansfield is the leading Democratic expert on the Pacific, on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Mansfield, I recall that you served as a Marine as a young man in China, and now that you're on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, do you feel that the policy of the United States is a bipartisan one in regard to the Pacific? Larry, I certainly do. I think as a matter of fact that the President feels more at ease, more at home, has shown more courage and more patience since the election last November, and the Democrats took over than he did before. I think he has gotten away from his desire to cry and get along with the extreme right wing of his party, and in the person of Senator George, a great American as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he feels more confidence and he is showing the traits of leadership which the American people thought he had when they elected him two years ago. Does this mean that you're satisfied with our foreign policy as it points towards the Formosa and Straits in Southeast Asia? Yes, I am satisfied with the policy of late, though I must admit that I certainly was not satisfied with it in the beginning. I didn't like the idea of the President saying on January the 20th, 1953 that the Seventh Fleet was being withdrawn from the Straits of Formosa where it was protecting the Chinese Communists on the mainland. I'm delighted that tonight Secretary Dulles did give President Truman credit for stationing the fleet in the Formosa Straits for the purpose of protecting Chong on Formosa itself. I think that we made mistakes at Geneva and elsewhere, but within the past eight, nine months the foreign policy of this administration has been sound and I think it's been carried out on a good bipartisan basis. Well, Senator Mansfield, do you think that the administration is on solid ground in estimating communist intentions in Asia as a basis for policy? That is, do you think that they regard their Chinese intentions as for peace or for war? Bill, it's a hard question to answer, but I think that Eisenhower is a man of peace fundamentally. I believe him when he says that there is no alternative to peace. I think he is taking a calculated risk and that in his mind there is a good possibility that peace may be achieved through the Formosa resolution, through the treaty with Chiang Kai-shek and through the policy which he has pursued with the help of the United Nations. Well, will the Reds meet him halfway? That remains to be seen. If they do not, of course, that means war and if it means war, it might mean more than war on the China mainland for us because we have the Sino-Soviet Treaty of 1950 which you know has been emphasized very much in the past three weeks and we have other complications to think of such as the resumption of the war in Korea and the stepping up of activities in Indochina. Well, Senator, do you agree with Senator Humphrey that we should clear up the mystery on whether we're going to defend those coastal islands which are near to the Chinese mainland, which I believe are the largest ones, Matsu and Kimoy? Not at this time. I think that we have to place a certain amount of trust in Mr. Dulles and President Eisenhower and as long as they have all the powers which have been delegated to them under the resolution and the treaty with Formosa or rather with the Nationalist China, I think we ought to allow them a little bit in the way of Li Wei and let them exercise their best judgment so that if possible some degree of stabilization can be achieved in the far eastern area and some settlement which they think worthwhile can be brought about. Well, since John Kyshek has put one-third of his combat forces on those small islands along the coast, how could the United States fail to defend them? Well, it would depend if the resolution which the New Zealanders have offered in the United Nations is finally accepted. I don't believe the door has been shut on it entirely. Then of course it may be that in the minds of the administration there's some intangible such as a quid pro quo by means of which Chong would perhaps withdraw from some of the offshore islands anyway in that way ensuring the security and the defense of the Pescadores and Formosa. If however the Chinese Reds launch an attack against Kimoy, Matsu and the other offshore groups which we would deem to be in preparation for an attack on the Pescadores and Formosa then it would be war and no question about it. Well, Senator, do you consider Formosa as a geographic entity absolutely vital to the security of this country in the Pacific or is it vital as a symbol of a people who have fought against communism on our side and lost? The answer to both questions would be that I do think that it is a part of our island defense chain extending from the Aleutians down through Japan, Okinawa, Formosa to the Philippines and from there to Southeast Asia and to the Southwest Pacific. I think it's also a symbol of a people who have held out against the communist menace for many years and I think that as long as we are bound to a disposition, a finalist position of Formosa that we are bound also under the terms of the treaty which we just concluded with the Nationalist Government to protect it. After all, no one really owns Formosa at the present time. It is the property of the victorious allies. There has been no conveyance of deed or title and until its final status is settled then I think we do have to protect it. I do think it's vital in the American chain of defense, the island barrier extending along that part of the Pacific. Senator Mansfield, speaking of this island chain, do you think we have enough reliable allies in Asia to defend that line or any other? No, I do not, Bill. I think we have reliable allies in South Korea, a good-sized army of 600,000 there. We haven't got much of an army in the Japanese Empire at the present time, though I understand that prospects are that it will increase gradually. We have a fair-sized army in the Philippines, probably 54,000 Filipinos, and then you have Chong with something like 600,000 troops of which I understand probably 300,000 can be considered as effective. In Southeast Asia, we haven't got a great deal. The French have something like 140,000 men left in Indochina. The native Vietnamese army doesn't amount to a great deal as yet, though I imagine that its training will be stepped up very shortly and its effectiveness become more pronounced. Cambodia and Laos have it much in the way of armed forces, and then from there you have to go all the way down to Australia and New Zealand, where I understand the Australians have something like 100,000 and the New Zealanders something like 50,000 men. We have lots of friends, but nothing much in the way of strong allies in that part of the world. Senator Mansfield, I'd like to go back to something you said earlier. May, you said that something about clearing up the future status of Formosa, does that mean that you think it's possible to envisage a situation in which there would be two Chinas, or at least a Republic of Formosa and mainland China? Well, that is a possibility. No one can tell what will happen until the final status. The deed of conveyance, so to speak, has been drawn up as far as Formosa and the pescadoris are concerned. However, I would say that this government in seeking the help of the United Nations to bring about a ceasefire in the states of Formosa by that fact has indeed accorded a further degree of recognition to communist China and has implied at least that there are two Chinas, because if the UN is going to carry on negotiations, naturally those negotiations will be between Red China on the one hand and Nationalist China on the other. As a Democrat, do you think you could have done this if a Democratic administration were in power? Do you think you could have made this move without bringing the wrath of the right-wing Republicans down on your head? Not at all, Larry, and I will say that a lot of the right-wing Republicans are not too happy about their own administration standing this matter, but had a Democrat been in there, well, the House would have been set on fire. Senator, I'd like, if I may, just to shift for a moment to Southeast Asia. You were down there last fall just after we saw each other in Manila and you visited South Vietnam. What do you think has to be done or can be done to save South Vietnam from communism? Bill, we can't afford to allow South Vietnam to go by default. The only thing we can do, as was recommended last September, is to give our full support to Joe Dinh Diem, the present Premier, who has been struggling under tremendous difficulties to bring about order out of chaos and to bring some degree of real independence to the state of South Vietnam. He has had to overcome the obstinacy of Bao Dai. He's had to break down the army under General Hinh. He's had to combat the sex, but this man who has great integrity, who is honest, and who has a real sense of duty, is at last beginning to show that he has the necessary wherewithal by means of which the people of South Vietnam can be welded together into a national unit and I think our policy is paying off. Senator Mansfield, when we made this congressional resolution and also went to the United Nations with a resolution to neutralize those offshore islands, it seemed to me that we confronted the Chinese communists with a pair of aces, but they didn't seem to be impressed and they apparently raised a bit a bit. Now, am I mistaking this game? Is there a showdown coming now or is this, with your familiarity with negotiation, is this a bargaining period? Well, I would say that this is the bargaining period. No one should expect the Chinese communists to say yes or no just as soon as a proposition is advanced to them, such as the New Zealand resolution. However, while they turned down the New Zealand resolution, they did say that they would consider the Russian resolution if they were given a seat on the Security Council. Well, both of those are out of the question, absolutely, but it does indicate that as far as the communists are concerned that they have not shut the door completely and that they are open for more bargaining. After all, as Bill Costello knows far better than I, the Chinese are great at bargaining and I would look forward to some weeks of tossing the ball back and forth before a final decision or settlement has arrived at. Thank you very much, Senator Mansfield. It's a pleasure to hear from you tonight. Pleasure, Bill. The opinions expressed on the Launcine Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Launcine Chronoscope was Larry Lecer and Bill Costello. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Mike Mansfield, United States Senator from Montana. Launcine is the world's most honored watch and by any standard of comparison, Launcine is ranked as the highest achievement in modern watchmaking. 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