 We could win this war. We could win this war? OK, well joining us from Orlando, Florida is the man in that clip, Anthony Dream Johnson, who says he wants to abolish feminism and make women great again. No, but it also says, with the trademark, make women great again, always great. Make women great again. They're going to do a three-day seminar for women led by all men. In mansplaining news, a three-day conference for women led by men hopes to make women great again. How the 22 convention will make you the greatest you ever. Raise your femininity by 500%. First of all, how is a man supposed to tell a woman how to be the ultimate woman? A woman needs to be taught how to be great again, not my words. Oh, me too. How to land a husband. How to lose weight. How to pump out a bunch of kids. Why don't men? Problems of women. Well, it says the world's ultimate event for women. In Orlando, Florida, that's going to be the scene of the crime. It's mansplaining platoosa. And say no to the toxic bullying feminist dogma. Taught by men to make women great again. Taking the stage now is the founder of the 22 convention you're in for a treat, Mr. Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony Dream Johnson. The first president of the man-o-sphere. It's run by all men, which promises to, quote, make women great again. This course is guaranteed to raise your femininity by 500%. Together, we will make women great again. Excuse me, I'm mansplaining here. She said there's nothing wrong. Welcome back to the 22 convention, make women great again in Orlando, Florida, being held for the first time ever at 21 Summit, boom, 2020. Now, our next presentation is actually not a single speaker. It's two speakers giving you a nice Q&A. It's going to be awesome. And you all have heard of the Brady Bunch, right? But have you heard of the Guzzy Bunch, the Guzzies, the Brady's and the Guzzies? Because you're about to get family splain. I know it came from mansplaining, but you get some family splain in here. Anyway, without further ado, let's say hello to my good friend Tanner Guzzy and his beautiful wife, Bracaeli Guzzy. So the 22 convention stage. Welcome. Thanks. So easy. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. We just got done doing this in the patriarch events and had a blast. We had some really great questions from the men that were in there. And we also got to cheat a little bit, because half the men who were in there are clients of mine or men who have been here before. And we've got some camaraderie and some rapport with. And we don't know most of you. And you don't have any reason why you should be listening to us or anything that you know of. So before we open it up to you to try and do some questions or anything, we figured we'd do a little bit of an introduction as far as who we are and what we're like. So we're based out of Salt Lake City, Utah. We have been married for nine years. We are the parents of four children. And we've got one that's halfway here. So number five is halfway on the way. We're members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So we're very devout in our belief. And we are incredibly pro-family. And we get a lot of heat from it, from being online. But we think that it's something that's worth fighting for. And it's worth taking the heat, because we believe in it. And we've had to deal with a lot of growing pains over the years. I had been previously married. And it was during the fallout of that previous marriage, in which I stumbled on this whole red pill, manasphere community, and started to get cued into all of this stuff. And so she has been aware of this. She's read all the same blogs that I have. She's been involved in this community from an observer perspective, and then from a supporter perspective for the same amount of time that we have. And I know a lot of times there are women that we interact with that wonder why she's involved with any of it, because of the outside perspective of this is all anti-feminine, women-hating, misogyny, or anything else like that, or that it's just an excuse for men to get to flip the switch. And we're victims or anything else. And we've found that the truths that we've embraced as a result of the way that this community has grown over the last decade have been things that have led to a very successful and a very happy marriage for us. And we're intentionally incorporating these into how we're parenting our children, especially how those coincide with the doctrines of what we believe according to our belief in God and things like that. So that's about it, as far as what we can offer for an introduction. We've got an hour to answer any questions that you want. I mean, really, anything is on the table. We homeschool. I'm self-employed. We can talk about our marriage. We can talk about parenting. We're happy to answer anything you want. And if you have a question and we answer it, and then you want to go back up to the mic again and ask another question, please do. There's no such thing as a monopolizing time or anything else like that. But we want to be able to offer what we can to you. So we'll just turn it over to you to ask whatever questions you want to ask. And we'll have, hopefully, a good conversation with you. OK, I'm a Baptist Catholic hospital with Messianic Jewish leanings. So you really can't put me in a hole. I don't fit. But yet I fit. I'm just as comfortable in the Catholic Church as I am in a Jewish synagogue. But I do believe the scriptures. I think that we can learn things from all of Christianity and all churches. We've got the Catholics who have preserved the Christian heritage. They've got all kinds of historical things available, lots of things in the library in the Vatican. What I think, y'all have the hierarchy that I think is it's like church, then man, then woman, then children, like that umbrella system. And also I like the Amish for the way they do it. Anyway, what I would like to know from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, where do you go to find how to prepare? Because I know y'all are prepared. And I would like to know how to find out how to get prepared for my family, for any eventuality. I have friends who are members of the Latter-day Saints. And they can go a year without going to the grocery store. Good. That means they're doing it right. Ha, ha, ha. You want to take that from your perspective? Sure, because Tanner has largely delegated that to me, which is fine, which is great. It's been a good opportunity for me to learn. There are several resources, just even within just the members. There are several blogs. I can even write it down and give you a list. There are several members who have compiled their plan and how they got ready. And some of them involve, OK, take three grand out of your savings. And here's what you do. And some of them say, OK, you want to get ready over six months to a year. So every time you go to the grocery store, this week you'll buy extra tomatoes. Next week you will buy extra flour. Then next week after that, and they break it down that way, there are several approaches. And thankfully, just a whole list of resources, depending on how you want to approach it, what your budget is, what your goals are. I mean, we're at three months, I think right now, pretty solid. And a little more than that. And when we get home, we'll be adding to that. Because we were gently reminded of that this weekend from our church leadership of how important that is. More than gently reminded. And so, yeah, I mean, at the top, our general leadership has emphasized the importance. And we, as members, have figured out how to make it happen. And I could list off some blogs for you later, if you'd like, some websites, absolutely, yeah. Well, and in addition to that, with the physical preparation also comes the spiritual and the social preparation. And the emotional. And the emotional preparation. And that's one of the things that we are very grateful that we do have is the belief in the hierarchy, like you said, and we do, we believe that we're part of a living church, that we have a prophet who's called today, just like prophets in the Old Testament, and they have that same relationship with the Lord that had before. And so we can receive revelation. That's going on this weekend right now, and we're being admonished to correct certain behaviors or double down on others. And that allows for the opportunity to reflect on either we need to change course or fine tune a little bit, or we are doing what we're doing well, and we need to continue to double down on that. And so that does take out a lot of the guesswork that I know a lot of people of other denominations have because it feels like it's just our particular denomination or it's our particular family or anything else. But a lot of that comes from the hierarchy within the church that allows for the emotional, the spiritual, the mental preparation, in addition to the physical preparation too, yeah. This is for Tanner. What did you have to learn? Or what did you learn from your failed marriage? What did you have to discard? What did you have to, what new paradigms did you have to create? And how did you decide what kind of woman you want for the next, for your future? Great question. I was a nice guy. I was a guy who thought that if I was a good little obedient boy that things would just work out the way that they were supposed to. And I engaged in these covert contracts of I'm nice to you, not because I actually care about you, because I'm naturally a fairly self-centered person and it's not even a malicious thing. I just, I'm in my own head and I'm thinking about my own things. And so it was if I do good to you it's because I expect you to do good to me and it was very much that way. And so I went into this first marriage expecting that the kinder I was, the nicer I was, the more of a gentleman I was, then the better things were going to work out without realizing that so much of that attitude and that mindset and that behavior had turned me into a doormat because there wasn't the strength, the self-direction, there wasn't the ambition, there wasn't the masculinity, the mission focus, the anything else that came with it that actually makes those other character traits attractive. And so it became that trying to in the moment make my wife be in a good mood was what my whole mission was. And I don't blame her for not respecting that and not wanting to get on board with that. That I didn't have any ambitions bigger than that or anything else. And so it was learning that that takes a very good focus which is it's my responsibility to care for and provide for the well-being of my family which is my wife and my children but that it's been skewed and twisted and manipulated into whatever her emotional state is is my fault right now, right at the time and I have complete control over that. And all of this happened very subconsciously. And so it was the realization that one, I need to let go of that. Two, I need to actually develop myself into somebody that's worth respecting before I can get the kind of respect that actually manifests as the love that I need. And then thankfully, as I was falling out of that relationship and things were coming to an end and to a head, that was already on its way out when we met. And I recognized her desire to be in a relationship with somebody who was like that very quickly. And so we were very quick in the development of our relationship and getting married and starting a family and everything else. And we see a lot of divine providence in that that we were able to be led to each other and capitalize on the timing of that and everything. Yeah, so does that answer that for you? Is that okay, good. I'm a bit curious because I don't really understand. I don't really know, I'm Catholic. And I don't really understand the structure of your church. I do like the fact that I see some young men out there that are doing work for on themselves, very young. And I'm always wondering, that's something we could learn from. So, and I'm one who believes that we can all learn something from the other. So I would love to ask you a couple of questions. What really, first of all, what separates, were you always a Jesus Christ of Latter-day sent person, were you born that way, or did you become it? Yes, to both. We both were born that way. And we're raised in families that are very active in the church, and we kind of went through the motions. And this happens in most churches, in most denominations, where you go through the motions, but you don't really get converted. And we both had different times in our lives that we had stepped away from things and saw that that didn't bear the fruit that we wanted. And so we made conscious decisions to repent and turn around and come back. And so then thankfully for both of us that happened at about the same time when we had to make the decision, are we in because it's what's pleasing our parents or our families? Or are we out because we're done just doing things to please our families? Or are we in because we actually believe this? And even if everybody around us were to totally decry this and say that there's no value in it, we're willing to stick with it because we're personally converted to it and we believe in it. And that's where we are now, because there's the true conversion. I completely understand, because I was born Catholic and I was that kind of kid that actually had to go back type of person. But do you in your, I mean, seriously, I may sound stupid and ignorant, but I really would like to know. I mean, do you believe that Jesus is a God or a prophet? A God. A God, okay. All right, so the separation between our church is not really that much, except that you feel like you're a continuation of what was, correct? It's a restoration. Yeah, we believe that there was an apostasy, there was a falling away, and that there was a need for a restoration after it, that the authority as far as the priesthood line, the ability to act in the name of God was lost. And so God called a new prophet, Joseph Smith, back in the 1830s when the church was founded in 1830. And it was a restoration of what the original church was with 12 apostles with a presiding authority with that priesthood. So your church essentially based on what you're telling me is less than 200 years old. Correct, but it's a restoration of a church that's been around since the beginning of time. Okay, all right. Now, there are some things that in our church, I wouldn't even say the original church because clearly the Orthodox church is the original church and the Catholic church became who we are today after the schism. But there are some things that, like for example, can women occupy a position of power in your church? Can families break and divorce and go back and have other family and remarry within the church? There are some things that remained with the Catholic church that I'm curious, I mean, because we're talking about family, right? I mean, what's the family structure and what is allowed and what is not in your faith? Cool, why don't you take those? Okay. Okay. As far as women being in positions of power, women do not hold the authority of the priesthood. So that's just like the Catholic church. We cannot be deacon, we cannot be... Right. Okay, so that's the same, yeah. However, we are in very many positions of leadership, if that makes sense. It's just like the Catholic church, yeah. Yeah, right, right. What was the second question? Especially in women's organizations like the General Relief Society, which is the women's organization or the primary which are over the children or things like that. Young women's organizations and those kind of things. And then the second one was related to, oh, now my... Oh, no, no, no, no. It was divorce. Yes, I remember. I just needed a minute. So divorce is heavily discouraged. It's heavily discouraged. But you may get divorced and remain in good standing in the church and still partake in the church. And as far as families go, we believe that families are eternal. And so divorce can get kind of confusing, a little gray, a little unsure. But we do have trust that it will be sorted. It will be sorted and you will be with your family for eternity. And obviously we're very marriage and family and kids focused. That's everything. So you don't have something like an annulment, getting excommunicated because of some things. So you don't have such a... Not simply for getting divorced, no. Okay, but it doesn't exist. Right, well, if there's behavior like adultery or other things like that that can lead to divorce. Or abuse or things like that. Then that often does lead to excommunication. And so excommunication happens, but it's not always an automatic that divorce merits excommunication from the church. And my final question, I don't want to occupy the whole space. My final question is my goal for my faith, personally, is to see, because I don't care as long as you're following a similar faith where what church, what religion you come from is immaterial to me, is to see how we can actually bring our church back, like pre-schism type of church. We're all Christian, let's actually follow the same instead of just separating. So do you see that in your... Since you seem to be ahead in your way of thinking from where we are, because our church is like old as dirt. So do you see us coming together as one Christian group? Because it's getting to be less and less likely these days. You have an answer. I do, I do, I do. We talked about, we had a lot of leadership of our church give another conference this weekend. And we were listening to part of it this morning before we came down. And one of them said, as the world speaks less and less of Christ, those of us, he said it so eloquently, but we must speak more, all of us as Christians. As we speak. We must come together. Yes, come together and speak more and more of Christ. And we've even seen it in this conference here, in the patriarch room. We're talking about God. Nobody else in there believes what we believe in, but we are all talking about God and we're all talking about Christ and we're coming together in that. And I really see a lot of hope and a lot of beauty that as the world polarizes itself so much further from us, that we can come together and rely on each other and find that hope and that unity together through Christ. Thank you. Thank you. Hi there. Hi. I think I heard that you two were gonna talk to us about style and we did hear from other speakers a lot about dress and how you present yourself to the world. So I'd just like to invite you to talk about that with us as far as your personal style or what kind of standards you have for dress for one or the other of you. Fun. Yeah, that's a fun question. Why don't... Okay, so men's style is particularly what I do for a living. That's how Anthony first found me as I was teaching men how to dress better and that is that's what I do for a living. And the whole philosophy that I try and instill in my clients and in the men with whom I work is that men and women have very different objectives in how we dress. For the most part, women try to dress in a way that makes them more appealing. It makes them more trustworthy. It makes them more safe to approach or anything else like that. And for men, the objective is typically more respect, more authority, more self-respect, these kinds of things. And sadly, I see a lot of men who I can tell when they are dressed by their wives because there's this image of I'm young or I'm relevant or I'm trendy or I'm safe or I'm anything else as opposed to I'm dignified and I'm respectable and I'm self-mastered and I'm these other variables as well. And so we start on this kind of deeper level, but as far as the similarities and the expectations that we have between the two of us, a lot of it comes down to one, and we're really grateful that this is the case because even the way our home is designed, our tastes align. There's not a lot of aesthetic disparity between us, especially because the art that we have in our homes is all very symbolic and it's representative of things that we believe in. And so it's easy to get on board together with stuff like that. I can trust her sense of style in that it's one, she asks, do I like the way that she looks? Am I attracted to it? Is it something that I see as dignified and respectable as opposed to being immodest or anything else? And I don't think that she's going to go in that direction anyway. And then she feels the same way where we both are grateful that we can walk out in public and neither one of us ever feels like we have to be embarrassed of the way that the other one looks or there's a massive amount of disparity that she's dressed up to the nines and I'm in my basketball shorts and my baggy T-shirt or I'm in a button-up shirt and a good pair of jeans and she's in yoga pants with her hair tied back or anything else like that. There's a lot of similarity as far as the importance of appearance both in how that reflects to other people but more importantly, how that reflects our own self-perception and how we can set that example for our kids and you guys should see the way she dresses our kids because she's got phenomenal taste in that regard and it becomes a representation of who we are as a family. Anything to add to that? That sounds great. That was great. I mean, it's just that his world of style and all the psychology that goes behind it is so far removed from what he doesn't pick on my clothes. I mean, he's a style guy, you know, it's like, does your husband tell you what to wear? And it's like, no, never. But I do own more shoes than she does. You do own more shoes than I do. So it is just two very different approaches and when women ask me, they assume that I know because he knows but the only constant really that I can think of for women is be very, very intentional. Stop throwing things on because they're comfortable, be very intentional and think about, think about it, it matters how people see you. And you know, the goal is alluring and attractive and respectful and beautiful and put some effort into it. That's all I got. How about matching outfits? No. I almost wore the same, close to what he was wearing yesterday, I think it was. And he walked out of the bathroom and he was, nope, that's not happening. Because what that communicates is, and maybe this would be different within a different cultural context or something else, but the way that the world exists today, what that communicates is that she dressed me, that I'm her Kendall or I'm her mannequin or I'm another one of the kids that she's got say over that. And so it kills any of that semblance of individuality, masculinity, self-respect or anything else like that. And so we certainly try to dress in a way that's complimentary. She asked me what I was planning on wearing today because we were going to be on stage, but if it looks too planned or too thought out, then it kills the individuality for us. And it also communicates a sense of insecurity on my part. I remember being in high school and college and getting ready with my girlfriends. And we would dress very similarly and if somebody changed last minute, shoot, we all had to change last minute. It's because, you know, because we were so insecure in just expressing what we wanted to express that needed to be matched. And so for me, that would be extreme insecurity to say, sorry, you have to be more like this so that I have backup in presenting myself. Yeah, yeah. And maybe one thing that I can offer as advice for you women to be able to support your husbands in dressing better is to compliment them and to physically engage with them. And it doesn't have to be sexual, but just be engaged with more touch and more things like that when he does dress in a way that you find respectable and attractive and let him know that you appreciate that and that you do see him as more of a man in that regard as opposed to not really responding in any way. And that doesn't mean, and I know you women know this, but don't nag him about when he doesn't do things the way that you want to, but support him and reward him and be involved with him when he does do things the way that you do want to and help him get more of, I guess the carrot versus the stick, right? We want the reward instead of the beat down or anything, but by all means, be supportive of that and don't do it just when he dresses up more formally, but in any way in which he dresses that is representative of some sense of intentionality. Even if he puts on his favorite t-shirt to go coach the baseball game and you hate that thing, you can be rewarding of the fact that it's intentional and say, okay, I know you've got your favorite t-shirt on, I know that helps you get your mind right, so go out there and do it the way you're supposed to and I love that you think about the way that you dress in that regard or something to that effect, but reward that intentionality in how he presents himself, yeah. Kind of piggybacking on that question, what about family photos? What do you guys do as far as matching or, you know? Again, it's all complimentary. As far as the closest we get to matching is kind of staying within a, not a hue, but a scheme. Like I don't have one kid in bright yellow and the other in a soft beige. As much as that pains them. As much as they wish they could be in all the bright, garish colors they can throw on, but it's more of just what flows is anything jarring to the eye and what obviously complements their own skin tone. Well, and he should know enough and he should care enough to be able to recognize what it is that you're trying to evoke within those family photos and what's the environment in which those photos are going to be taken. If you're going out and you're doing a family photo shoot in the mountains and it's autumn and the leaves are falling and he's wearing an aloha shirt with a pair of shorts and some flip flops on, he should know how contextually obtuse that is and that it makes him look bad because it makes him look like he's unaware of his surroundings. And so he should have a basic understanding of how to read context and how to be able to play even with just neutral colors. Like he shouldn't have on a black belt with brown leather shoes or something to that effect. And that doesn't mean that he has to be this master of pattern matching or that there has to be all these colors or anything else like that. But he should know based on the context and based on some simple rules, how to be able to do that. And if he doesn't, send him my way and I'll get him squared away on that. So my question is, you guys are speaking at a secular event as religious couple. What is your take on non-religious people adopting what is essentially biblical principles in order to improve their relationships? Do it, please. We believe that truth should be embraced from whatever source in which we find it. Because truth is truth. And ultimately, we believe that all truth does come down from God. But if it has to go a roundabout way to come in through some sort of secular method, doesn't matter. It's still true. And the idea of men and women being a dichotomy and are not only being different but being very complementary in our nature. Obviously I would love if you could embrace that and embrace the godliness and everything that comes with that. That's the ultimate goal. But as far as you get is that you have a wonderful, fantastic, complementary marriage because you embrace those principles based on red pill philosophy or just the fact that you see your neighbors do this and they're happier that way and you're emulating them. It doesn't matter. Because whatever truth you can embrace that leads to more happiness and leads to more truth, embrace it. Anything else? You nailed it. Okay, I nailed it. Could you tell me more about your work on how what you're teaching men about dress? Yeah. And can you also maybe generally comment on in this conference, what have you noticed both of you of the greatest need that the men across the hall sort of are yearning for? I assume that that greatest need is not a style-related need but just like a deep-related need. Yes, what do you notice that... Yeah, so one's on the physical, one's on the more internal. And sorry, I remind me the first one that it was style-related, it was... Yes, just how I run my business, right? Yes, okay. How do I explain this in a synced way? This has been my marketing problem for years. Most men, when they think about their appearance, they take a very tactical approach and they will either ask their wives or maybe they will go to Nordstrom and hire a stylist or they will order a subscription box or something else. And what I do is I teach them to take a more strategic and starting from the inside and working out approach. Where rather than, because when you're a kid, you don't have a sense of identity and you develop that identity based on the people around you that you wanna emulate. And so you dress like the people that you want to be. That's why little kids dress up as superheroes or why teenagers dress up like their friends when they're in high school. But when you're a grown man, you should know yourself, not only who you are now, but who you're aspiring to become. And then you should have the skills necessary, just like when you're trying to speak, you should have the language and the vocabulary and the grammar necessary to be able to express that. You should have the skillset necessary to express that in the way that you dress. Most men don't have that at all. They can't even begin to think about who they are, let alone what that should look like. And so that's what I teach them is we start from the inside and we work out and I teach them how to be able to recognize what that looks like and then tactically how to be able to get there. And then the ultimate goal and I've got six or seven guys that are here in the conference that I've worked with. And not a single one of them is wearing anything that I ever recommended. They didn't pack because they asked me how to do it. They're not texting me at night saying what should I wear tomorrow. They all look fantastic. And they're all entirely self-sufficient about it too because they've developed this skillset in being able to do it by themselves rather than my having to hold their hands or continue to shop for them or do anything in that regard. Yeah. Okay, you ready to do the next one? Yes. Okay. What I've observed and I could be totally wrong but what I see these men, we've been, I've been mostly just in the patriarchy. I have not, I've spent half an hour in the, in 21. But in patriarchy, I actually, I have loved to see this because you, you want men, or sorry, you see men who sincerely and genuinely want a good family life and they want to know how to take responsibility for that so that they can have an effect on it. They don't want it to just, how do I get my wife to treat me better? It's how do I live in a way that lights a fire in the people around me, especially in my wife and kids? How can I live in a way that shares this, this godly desire to do more and to be more and to not just live for myself? That's what I've seen. They're looking for ways to do this. They're looking for tools. They're looking for guidance to really just fulfill that potential that they have. Yeah, I'd echo that same thing because we, we don't have that. The generations that have come before us, that's been abandoned. There's nothing to move into. And so we live in this culture of the me and the now and it's very hedonistic and it's very pleasure has become our God or we as individuals have become our own God. And the men over here in the Patriarchy events have recognized the vacuousness and the shallowness of that. And they realized that, yeah, that may have been able to hold my attention when I was young, but it's unfulfilling and it's empty. And here I am standing in the shatters of all of this and I want more. And I'm realizing that things that I thought were lie aren't a lie. It's just the way that I was told to attain them were corrupted or were lies or anything else. And so they're still seeking that same nobility and that purpose of family, of mission, of masculinity, of building civilization of all of these other things. And they're just so hungry for one, a sense of camaraderie with other men who do that because they're not just the only weirdos in their neighborhood, which most of them are the only poor weirdos in their neighborhoods who even think about this. But so they wanna know that they're not alone and then they wanna be able to do it in conjunction with other men who are doing it as well and they want some tools in order to be able to do that. And it is invigorating for us to get to see that and to be surrounded by it. It's wonderful. Do you, I was raised in Haiti and I was raised by parents, by two very strong parents. And in our family, there was a clear demarcation. This is how you play clothes. These are your clothes you go to school. These are your clothes you go to church. Do you not believe that the family, the mothers, the fathers, or whomever have a responsibility to teach these men or those men or women, you do not step outside looking like that. So I understand that you found a niche, right? But the niche was created because there was a void, right? Do you not believe that there was, like you said, if you're gonna take a picture of your children, you're gonna address them a certain way. If you're gonna take, go to church with your children, you're not gonna address your children, or young ladies not gonna address the same way you're going to a club as she would be going to church. Now, those things in my background are innate. I don't need a coach to teach me you don't dress a certain way to go in a certain place. Now, do you not believe that the failure that you found that you need to fail came with the failure of the family itself? When parents stop teaching these children, this is the way you dress to go here. You can't go to school looking like that and you're wearing your whatever, Daisy Dukes or whatever. You don't dress like that. You don't step outside the door looking. I mean, those things should have been innate. So again, that brings us back to the role of the family and how, in my opinion, the family is what we need to focus on in all these places and all this brokenness that I have noticed around here alone and that I see around me. It's like, all this brokenness have one root. It's the brokenness of the family. If we could bring the family together and the parents should assume the rules, it doesn't matter, like you say, and I have to give you a kudos for that because that's another thing that separates your church from our church is the fact that you can say, I don't care how you come to the truth. You don't have to follow a certain path that was predetermined. Come to the truth. So that definitely separates, because other than the fact that women cannot do anything in your church, they cannot do anything in my church, but I mean anything. They can be priests, they can be priestess, they can be deaconess, but we still can occupy rules that actually influence our church as a whole. But our family, I think, and that's what I've been trying to preach in a lot of the times when people come out and say, well, women must do this movement. It's not, the purpose should not be what one gender or another. It's not a fight of genders. Genders need to come together in order for the family to grow. So, and then that's where I feel that I'm happy for you that you found that niche, but that niche was created because there was a void. And the family needs to actually teach, go back to teaching your children those styles. Yeah, my job wouldn't have existed 100 years ago when fathers taught their sons how to dress and how to think about that and mothers would have reinforced that. But none of us that are doing any of the things that we're doing here, as far as the men who are speaking and have built up businesses about this have, I hope that at one point I'm out of a job because families have stepped in and done what I'm trying to do to make up for that. There would be nothing that made me happier than having to come up with some brand new industry to be in because dads are doing their jobs. Of course, of course. Thank you so much. Yeah, hi. How are you? Great. So, here's my question for you. I'm gonna put it out here on the table. The sloppiness of America drives me crazy. What change, where did that change? Where did comfortable, where did I'm gonna go to the grocery store or fly on an airplane and my pajama bottoms become okay? Where did that change happen? Well, I don't think either one of us can give a definitive answer. Okay, where do you think? I can give a lot of speculation on it. Yeah, I'll give you, I'm happy. Yeah, trust me, I'll give you all the speculation I have on it. I foresee it starting with the sexual revolution and with the baby boomers when there was a rejection of everything that tradition was, which to a large extent, I don't blame them because when we think about the greatest generation or the generation that fought in World War I and we think about the atrocities that these men had to experience and that they had to deal with, so many of them, the only way that they could do that was to just turn off every emotion in their brains. And how do you turn that back on? And so the rebellion of the boomers and of even the silent generation for me makes a lot of sense because they were rebelling against largely absent fathers, largely hierarchal, largely militarized, structured fathers that were absolutely doing the best they could, but in a situation that was inappropriate because they were no longer in wartime and these families broke as a result of that. And so what do we get? We get the sexual revolution, we get this rebellion, we get this idea of anything that was tradition is bad. Don't trust anybody over the age of 30. Then you bring in all of these other things like immigration and diversity and multiculturalism where there is no longer a single culture that is representative of this is the way that we dress and this is indicative of this or that's indicative of that because in one part of the country or in one part of the city, they do this differently and they do that differently and we all interact with each other and most of the time we get along but sometimes we don't. But from a men's clothing perspective, a hundred years ago, white collar, blue collar, it didn't matter, everybody wore suits. It didn't matter what your skin color was or what anything else was but as we get more of the identification with diverse cultures and with our root heritage and everything else like that as opposed to a more homogenous American culture as we get more and more of that resentment of traditionalism and everything else then it does turn into this idea of well, whatever I feel like I could do, I can do and then that gets exacerbated with the idea of non-judgmentalism and truth is all subjective and it's all relative and so you can't tell me that this is right or wrong or anything else and if you do then that actually is the one moral that you're not allowed to have is that you're not allowed to say that there's such thing as objective morality and so it's just this hydra that we feel like we can get it at one head but then these others sprout out and it turns into what ultimately is we worship ourselves as gods because we think that we can do whatever we want, think whatever we want, wear whatever we want and if anybody has the audacity to think negatively of us, it's blasphemy so that's my very succinct theory on all of it. So to that point, I learned how to sew when I was nine, my grandmother taught me and I took clothing class all through high school. It's one of those things where industrialization robbed us of the ability to have clothing that actually fits properly according to your body's measurements and so when you go out and you shop for something you didn't have any investment and except that you earn the money for those clothes you know what I mean and you're never gonna find something that fits exactly right, you're better off buying something a size or two bigger and going to get entailered but who can even afford to tailor their clothes in a lot of situations, you know what I mean? So it's at the point now where it costs less to buy even a designer item than it might to just even get the pattern and then the fabric and then the notions not to mention the machine and the maintenance and the time it takes. So I think a lot of that and then I think they do it on purpose just to kind of demoralize everybody. The fabric is all kind of a little bit too sheer, a little bit too low quality, right? So it's almost easier to throw on some pizza clothes, some baggy sweatpants and a t-shirt because you're gonna look like crap when you're trying to look nice anyway. So you might as well be comfortable while you're doing it, right? Might as well be comfortable because you know, you can try on 10 outfits and we've all done it. We can try on 10 outfits and we don't like any of them but there's nothing actually wrong with the clothes until you put them on your body. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah and you don't wanna, I hesitate to get too far into the Cyop territory or anything like that but I do believe that. I believe that a major part of the aesthetics for both men and women especially because you're given two options. You can either dress in a way that's sexy and seductive or you can dress in a way that you're pretending to be men and that's basically it or you've got this crappy middle route of you just look like you don't care at all. But the tradition of sensuality, femininity and embracing those kind of things, these beautiful things that are inherent about being a woman nobody sells that. You can't dress like that and if you do, you're betraying the sisterhood or you're some weird trad con that's larping like it's a different time period and the same thing happens with men where I'm sorry, if you're gonna throw on a three-piece suit in a fedora and think that that's the way to reclaim masculinity you're a joke, you're a gentle dork. It doesn't work like that. Gentle dork? And so we have to be able to infuse and inject meaning and symbolism and dignity and identity and representation in the things that we have and that we do wear and maybe it's just within our family unit or maybe it's just within an individual unit. Maybe if we get lucky it happens within a neighborhood or a church community or something else but we have to be willing to do that even if that means that we're gonna be weird from the perspective of the rest of the world because I'm not gonna dress like a bum because I'm not willing to give up my dignity just so that I can fit in with the rest of the world. At all. You're dressed like a bum. Nope. No, because it's an insult to her. It's an insult to her. Exactly. And what's more important is whether anybody else sees that or not how is she supposed to love and respect me if I look like I'm a kid? Why would she do that? Why in the world would she look up to me as somebody that she can trust, somebody that she can defer to, somebody that she can depend on if I wear the exact same outfit as my six year old son and my justification is it's comfortable. There's nothing masculine about any of that. There's nothing worth emulating about any of that. So you're right. She should have higher standards than that for me and I should have higher standards than that for myself. So then I had a question totally unrelated to fashion and stuff. Okay. How are you finding the other religiously based speakers to be in your view in comparison to your particular stream of theology and whatnot? Do you find a lot of contention in some of the points that they make or the way that they interpret scripture or apply it or are you finding more commonalities? It's been a lot of both that I've noticed. A lot of times we'll find ourselves saying, he's so close. He's almost there. He's just missing this one little piece that we have. Overall, the feeling is it is so refreshing and encouraging that so many people are willing to speak up and are willing to bring God into it because that's not what this looked like five years ago. No. At all. No. Not at all. And I remember Tanner being very nervous and feeling very out of place and considering, I don't know if I can keep going to this but he persisted and I'm very glad that he has because the majority of it is, what I've noticed that it has boiled down to when they bring in their religion or their beliefs is we want to turn to God. That is the direction you need to turn. Turn away from everything you used to know or from everything you used to worship. Turn away from worshiping yourself and turn to God. That's just the common theme of it. Bring God into your families. Bring your wife to God. Bring your children to God. Most importantly, bring yourself to God and the kind of variations of that the differences seem to be very small because that's what it boils down to and we very much believe in that too. Yeah, the one caveat to add to that is that we haven't heard from everybody because obviously I've been emceeing and presenting in there, she's been in there with me and there have been speeches given in here and things like that and as we've heard some feedback from other people about some of the different things that have been taught, there are definitely things that we disagree with on a theological or on a doctrinal level even though the roots may be very similar, the branches go off in very different directions and so I would say that the one thing that we, honestly that I would, the one truth that I would honestly like to testify of is that men and women are both inherently fallen and both inherently capable of godliness and our fallen nature may be unique but men are not any more or any less fallen than women nor are men any more or any less capable of godliness and salvation and atonement than women are and anybody who tries to spin it that because the uniqueness is there that the severity is different is trying to play a victim game and we disagree with that idea, yeah. This is my first time meeting you guys but I have to say I love you. Please keep them coming, we love it. I really love your rhetorics and your philosophy. I really love the way, and I've never been to your church not even once, I would definitely love to experience that and I completely get it because I am a born Catholic and there's some parts of it that I've actually embraced fully and I totally believe bringing people together is always gonna win at the end and you're right, I have sat in this room and I have gotten good teaching and I have gotten teaching where I felt the need to stand up and actually refute it especially when it comes to, when people, I am not a theologian, I'm not trained as a theologian but I've been in the church for 53 years and I've been, I've gone to Catholic school all the way through medical school so I understand some very basic tenets of belief, of faith. So when somebody stands and tells somebody that it's okay to disrespect your mother, that bothers me. When somebody stands up and say things such as, women are in the dark and I'm supposed to be this, that is not of Christ. So I love how you present yourself. You come across very respectful of your wife and vice versa and you're not saying, well I'm gonna stay here because I'm a man and I'm gonna do this and so to me, I think that's what we all need to teach. We need to teach this acceptance. We need to teach this place where people come together and actually try to fight to make humanity better. I do have another question for you because you made a comment about what makes, why we become frumpy, that's another subject altogether, is because of the fact that we have outside influence. I'm here to tell you from where I come from, when our men and our people come to this culture, they go down in fashion, not up, not up. So I don't think it's the outside influence necessarily. I think there's a, like I don't know who just said that. There's a certain almost like an undertone and underspoken truth where it's okay to dress with your underwear showing with your pants. I would never allow my kid to step but that's my job as a parent. And I have, my youngest one is 21 years old. He cannot step outside of my house, wearing his pants below his behind with his underwear. You will see my son, he dressed, he knows how to dress when he's coming to different venue because that's my job. I feel that it's my job as a parent. But so what I'm trying to say is I don't think it's the outside influence. That's the only thing that I disagree with you by the way. I don't think the outside influence created the men that's not dressed in three piece. I was raised by a father who was a judge so every single day he stepped out of the house. He had that three piece suit. He wore the cufflinks, he wore the tie. So I'm very much, but see, I come from that background. I think part of the problem is that, again, I keep going back to the family being broken. It's the family that's broken. It's not from here, from there. We can't put a finger on why people became degenerate and started looking like that and why people are so hurt. People are hurt because the family's broken. People don't dress properly because the family is broken. People feel comfortable in their brokenness. I go to a Catholic church which is almost was a no-no. Somebody walks in in their fringy little shorts and their string and this was, I mean, where I was raised the priest would get off the puppet and would actually guide you outside. But here we allow it. So what are we doing? We're doing something wrong and that's something wrong is breaking the family and I feel, and I really, like I said, I love the fact that you're promoting the family and that's what we all need to do. That would eliminate, I mean, I hate to say that, that would eliminate a lot of this problem, a lot of this brokenness that we keep seeing that recurs. Right. Okay, I'm gonna not push back a little bit but I wanna clarify a little bit what I meant as far as these other influences coming in because you're right. This happens when it all comes together and it's not that you have one particular culture or one particular group that comes in but it's when you have everything that comes in without a host culture that either insists on maintaining its own identity or celebrating the fact that there are other identities that come in and that should be worth being maintained but it becomes this melting pot and this kind of hodgepodge and that's when, because when you have a melting pot everything goes to brown, right? Everything loses its vibrancy, everything loses its authority, its uniqueness, it's everything else and we see this in the music that we listen to. We see it in the stupid modern architecture where every airport in the world looks exactly the same now. We see it in so many different things where it's rather than it being a host and a separate group or whatever else it may be that do have these different representations of dignity and symbolism and respect and accomplishment and hierarchy and all these other things. I mean, I'm envious to the fact that your dad wore a three piece suit all the time and that was something that is still maintained within Haiti and that in Utah the men that I go to church with chafe at the fact that they have to put on a tie to be able to go to church and that's what the expectation is because you're right, if we had a family that or if we had a culture that celebrated family it celebrated these masculine virtues and these feminine virtues as opposed to just everybody's good about everything because if I actually stand up for something and I may offend that person because they're from this or I may offend that person because they're from that then it does turn into nobody wants to stand up for believe in or draw a line on anything because it's all too scary and it's too offensive and so I'm jealous that that's Right, right, but we make it make us weaker, exactly. Yep. So a lot of us notice, if you have exposure to a lot of this information and you start to notice there's becoming a bigger divide between me and the people that I interact with every day on a daily basis almost to the point where it's like am I a foreigner in a foreign land almost? How big do you think the red pill actually is? How many people do you think are actually out there that probably holds some attitude that would be amenable to this way of thinking and they're just keeping it under hat because they know that it's dangerous. I don't know. Thinking about how many people are out there that would accept it as a whole. That number feels small, but there are plenty of people out there who have tidbits, that one or two points, one or two aspects, there are plenty of people who we bring things up randomly in conversation. It's kind of our vetting process for our friends is how much of that can we sprinkle in to find out when they start to push back in. That's how we call them. So then that leads to another question. How are you guys approaching that conversation with people when you're bringing them into your circle? What do you think about the 19th Amendment? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, right, exactly. They're like, what? What's that? They couldn't even tell you. They don't know. They haven't read the Constitution. They don't know. Right. Well, it's much easier if you can avoid words like submission or feminism. It's much easier because what most people don't realize is they're trained to have these reactions to these words and then they don't think about it any further. It's like I'm supposed to be repulsed by that. That's supposed to make me roll my eyes, but Tanner is very, very good at using all of the other words and I watch people and they're nodding their heads and they're thinking, this is so refreshing or you really think that, I think that too. It's because he's found a way to articulate these ideas that it's very relevant to us. We're surrounded, our whole neighborhood is just other young couples having tons of babies and he finds ways to make it very, very relatable without, you know, he just manages to find his way under and over and around all of the laser points that everybody else trips all over. One or the other, let me, and then yeah, well, I'll let you finish, but one of the other things that we actively try to do is even just the exchange that we just had where somebody will make a point or a counterpoint and then I have no problem, Bracaeli has no problem saying, hold on, I'm gonna push back on that a little bit or let me clarify or let me, as opposed to, oh, I feel icky because they didn't like the way that I said this, so I'm just gonna, you're right, we're just, we're gonna be good there, but there's a way to continue to engage in conversation and in dialogue and it's not dialogue for its own sake, but it's the ability to actually say, no, these are some of the lines that we draw and if you're saying something back to me that isn't exactly what I said, then that means I didn't explain my point, I wasn't as articulate as I was hoping to be and so we need to keep working our way around it and even that in and of itself is so refreshing to so many people that we find that it's kind of a gateway drug to all the other things that they wanna talk about because they actually are talking to people who are willing to have boundaries, but at the same time entertain ideas, not just get rhetorical and emotional or anything else like that and for the most part it's very rare that we interact with people that just outright turn tail and run or I can't believe you say those kind of things, but it's very frequent that we watch people's minds start to shift as we do talk about these things with them. So then Kaylee, yeah that word submission is really triggering to people. The media is telling everyone and men especially that submission equals one particular thing. What's your definition of it? How do you describe it? What's the process that you go to when you surrender? In the patriarchy Q and A somebody asked me how do you, kind of a similar question. He brought up the caricature of female strength and like girl power and that's gross and I hate it. And then he brought up the caricature of submission where you dilute yourself and you're not anybody anymore. You just exist and both of those are so, so wrong. And I sort of explained how for me, when I met Tanner, he was just getting through all of it. He just was at the end of his marriage. He was going through red pill and he was over correcting. That was so bad at it. Like crazy. He was terrible at it. And since I had spent time reading all the blogs, I knew exactly what he was doing. I saw it and I was like, okay, here comes this and here came that and but I saw the potential and so I had to actively and willfully choose to let him do it because I knew what he wanted and that was a worthy, worthy goal. I wanted him to be that man too. I wanted to have his babies and I wanted him to be that kind of father and to be that kind of husband but I had to let him do it and I couldn't sit back and say, actually, this is how you should handle me right now, so I just let him do it and that took more willpower than almost anything I've ever gone through and that felt like strength to me. Strength was not forcing my will on him. It was relinquishing and just letting it go. So to me, to me, that's how I submit and now it comes, I mean, going to the gym never gets easier, the weights don't get lighter but you get stronger and so now it comes very, very naturally. He doesn't suck at it. He's internalized and integrated it and now it's not this light your brain on fire and try to hold your mouth and just let it go. Now it is this beautiful, enriching, fulfilling dynamic where my burdens, they're not on my shoulders. I get to give him so much burden and so to me, that's that submission and I wish I could think of a different word because that word, like authenticity, it's been bastardized, yeah, absolutely. So you were talking about reading the blogs. I've been there too, it's interesting because everything they say is something that you want to hear, you need to hear or hasn't been said before, you didn't know. So what was your experience as you're learning men's perspective? How did you feel, did you go through any of that red pill rage yourself or that kind of stuff? The red pill rage for me looked very different because it was an immediate experience of wow, I really don't want that to be true. That sucks. Like my brain would immediately go no, here's the way you're not like that, I swear you're not like that, I promise you're not like that. And then I'd come back around to no, you're probably doing those things and it's a very painful process. It was painful. But I wanted to know how he was going to see me. I wanted to know, I was obsessed with him and so anything he was reading, I was reading, I was listening to and it was this interesting because some of it I rejected. Of course. Some of it I rejected and it stayed rejected but for me I tried so hard and I was so young, I was only 19 or 20 and for me it was very painful but it was also very much, I've always liked having my grit tested. Me too. So yes, so I thought, okay, how can I deal with this in a way that isn't like all the other women screeching in the comments? What can I do that's different? I want to be different and I want to be better. And so that was my main approach, yeah. Yeah, I see that too. Like they'll say something and you go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then you'll, you know, okay, maybe. Yeah, probably. Exactly. So what is your advice to other women who are going to see these videos and they're gonna be getting punched in the gut, slapped in the face and stabbed in the heart? What do you think? I think, let's see. The number one thing that I've learned and I like to use this phrase a lot because it perfectly encapsulates the feelings and the emotions of if it sets your brain on fire, turn toward it. Be humble, be humble. Be willing to see yourself for what you are because you can't be better until you do. Tanner, I have grown so much as a person since being married to Tanner because he lights the match and it hurts and it is scary and it is painful. And then I grow, it doesn't end me and I like who I am so much more because I have been able, because humility is a gift and I have been able to work on that and so much of that is through the feedback that I get from Tanner. And so just deal with it. Deal with the pain and the discomfort and the burning sensation that you feel is going to shoot out of your eyes. Let it run through and then be honest with yourself and do the work. That's what I would say. Tell me that's not strength, right? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Okay guys, it looks like we're out of time. Ladies, thank you so much for letting us come and do this with you. Those were wonderful questions and I'm glad that we got to spend a little bit of time with you, so thank you. We can win this war. We can win this war? Okay, well joining us from Orlando, Florida is the man in that clip, Anthony Dream Johnson, who says he wants to abolish feminism and make women great again. No, but it also says with a trademark, make women great again, four women, always great. Make women great again. We're gonna do a three-day seminar for women led by all men. In man-splaining news, a three-day conference for women led by men hopes to make women great again. How the 22 convention will make you the greatest you ever. Raise your femininity by 500%. First of all, how is a man supposed to tell a woman how to be the ultimate woman? A woman needs to be taught how to be great again. Oh, yes, we do. How to land a husband. Oh! How to lose weight. How to pop out a bunch of kids. Why do men think they need to fix the problems of women? Well, it says the world's ultimate event for women. Yeah, Orlando, Florida, that's gonna be the scene of the crime. It's man-splaining platoosa. And say no to the toxic, bullying, feminist dogma. Taught by men to make women great again. Taking the stage now is the founder of the 22 convention. You're in for a treat, Mr. Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony Dream Johnson. The first president of the man-o-sphere. It's run by all men, which promises to, quote, make women great again. This course is guaranteed to raise your femininity by 500%. Together, we will make women great again. Excuse me, I'm man-splaining here. She said there's nothing wrong...