 I have actually worked with people, yoga instructors, massage therapists and so forth, very very closely. Back in the 90s, one of my students was very much into yoga and over a period of like four years, her practice shifted from focus on the body and breathing and postures and techniques and all the specifics that are very much a part of yoga into more the spiritual aspect of yoga. And she was also doing a course in Miracles, so it got to be the point where after three or four years and she kept letting go into the more intuitive spiritual aspects of what she really wanted. That was where her mind was going, so she figured her yoga class would go along with her and people would show up and they would still get on the mat, they would still do the postures and everything but she would go around and she was just more like an empath, just really tuning in to what would be most helpful to share and extend. It was a little bit more like spiritual psychotherapy as a yoga background. I also had a friend who was a massage therapist who was quite deeply into the course and she went through the same thing where she really studied up on it, she really learned massage and she was quite good at it and was quite, you know, learned at all the techniques and different things and then she contacted me one day where she was just in the middle of a massage and then she had one of these mystical moments where she just looked down at the person and she looked down at her hands as they were doing the massage and she absolutely couldn't recognize what was happening. She had one of these, I do not know what anything is for moments in the middle of the massage and she just stared as the hands were moving like her eyes got real big because she was like, what is this? It was like she had lost all awareness of everything. She just forgot everything about massage in that moment and probably more than that she probably forgot everything about the world in that moment it's usually the way that it goes. You really are a blank slate, you're that tabula rasa. For her it was so dramatic that she actually could not do another massage after that moment. Just the massage ended and the whole massage career ended in that one moment and I asked her, I said, well, what did you do next? She became, I guess the word in this world would be like a Christian science practitioner where she just was so focused in her mind into God's love and the allness of God and the nothingness of everything that people's symptoms, she didn't have to massage them, they would call her on the phone and she'd pray and their symptoms would disappear. They had a sore back, she could handle that in a couple seconds with divinity. It went on from having seemingly patients or clients which you really don't have patients and clients when you go into that kind of practitioner work because I would say from that higher level of practitioner work you start to realize that any discomfort, anything that seems to be a problem in this world including an ailment, a physical ailment, a psychological ailment, fear around money or concern around relationships or anything is a claim and that claim is that there's no God and so basically you spend your life dealing with the claims that seem to come to you, you start to see your own claims because there's really nobody out there, it's really all one mind. If somebody comes and they say they have a sore back, she would go right into the prayer because that would be a claim. A sore back is a claim that there is no God. If you could follow it metaphysically in, if God is all and love is all then anything that unlike that love would be a claim and sometimes we're not used to that kind of thinking. We think more in terms of like insurance claims like insurance claims for like a car or health insurance claim and so on and so forth. This is a different kind of claim. This is kind of a claim that it's for your mind that you're trying to make a claim that's not true and you have to go back into the allness of that love and then the claim will disappear because the claim cannot exist in the allness that is God. I think that that can be a very helpful healing step in the sense that as long as you hold in your mind that all symptoms are really effects and all symptoms are really symbols because this is a world of symbols and the Spirit can use those symbols and it's very much like even though you would be doing it with the backdrop we'll say of massage, it's very much like Louis Hayes' book You Can Heal Your Life where she really starts off with the symptom level and then she works it back and it's kind of trace it back, trace it back, trace it back, forgive. Everyone's going to have to forgive anyway and in one sense the body is like a barometer so if the body is feeling tight or there's different points of stress or different things, people talk even about cellular memories there's no memory in matter but actually that's a good symbol still that people will use about how if you're holding something, you're holding some kind of hurt or pain or grievance in your neck or in your elbow it's something people can relate to because it's connecting the grievance or the hurt with a symptom and it's not where it ends but it definitely can be a starting point especially when you're opening up to this idea that there can be an inward movement of looking inside ultimately going inside for the forgiveness there was a point I believe it was maybe the psychotherapy pamphlet where Jesus didn't mention Louise Hay's name but I swear, he was talking with her because he was talking about a careful tracing back from the specifics and the symptoms he was talking about the very thing that she's made a career out of without mentioning, hey Louise, he just left Louise out of it but he said still the main point that he wanted to make was only forgiveness heals and unforgiveness that even when we come and we trace from all these different angles we still are just approaching forgiveness all illness is just a misperception really one misperception and all forgiveness is actually the correction for that misperception so it really gets simple