 is we have a great, great show. And we're really excited to have Ryan Jenardon, our wonderful, wonderful author who's written a fabulous book that discusses the future of philanthropy. So he's brought his crystal ball and we're gonna get into this with him and find out what we should be thinking about and what is gonna happen if you were with us during the Green Room chatter, you'll know that this is a man who works tomorrow, literally, because he's working for an Australian organization or university. And so, yeah, you're the perfect person to do this. You got to design work. Yeah, it's definitely not a crystal ball. It's probably one of those magic eight balls that you get in a vending machine, but it still guides us in the right direction and that's what we're gonna do. I love it. I think that's great. Well, everybody, if we haven't met yet, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. My sidekick, Jared Ransom, I think she's stuck in the travel vortex of a snowstorm somewhere in the southern part of the U.S. So we should have her back with us tomorrow. I wanna thank all of our presenting sponsors who allow us to have this amazing conversation with guests such as Ryan each and every day. We are going past, surpassed our 450th episode and large part due to these sponsors that have been with us from the beginning. So we wanna thank you. If you're not able to watch us live daily, you can always catch us on Roku, YouTube TV, Amazon Fire TV and Vimeo. And the scary thing is you can speak into your smart, speak your smart device. Click, I would say smart clicker, the nonprofit show and it's frightening, but we will come up. So, okay, Ryan, I've done my housekeeping and I'm ready to focus on you, my friend. Future philanthropy. Talk to me about how you got interested in philanthropy and what your work has been like up to the release of your book. Yeah, definitely. So I'm not gonna say I fell into philanthropy, it was more of an evolution. I know we wanna kind of move that misnomer to the side, especially as we kind of look to professionalize the sector moving forward. But I was in politics before this in the federal parliament. I was an advisor in the industry and innovation portfolio. And, you know, just a lot of things happened. We had a natural disaster in the district that I was living in and it just was burnout. So I did what any kind of burnout staff that does and that's kind of traveled the world. And then I met my now wife in Rome and she was from San Diego and just hitched a ride over here for the 2012 presidential campaign. And then nevertheless, but I was at a point there where I obviously was at a pretty high level in terms of being an organizer advisor, but you come back here and you have to start your, you know, internships again, you have to kind of start rolling up your sleeves and putting stuff in envelopes and making phone calls. And I was 30 years old at that point. So it was an apt time for a career change. But some of the amazing people I met on that campaign, it meets some great people in civic life. They worked for the San Diego Foundation. So a largest community foundation there. And they were just launching the Center for Civic Engagement. So I led the Civic Leadership Fund and did a lot of the charitable giving side and just found philanthropy was a really good landing spot for me as I transitioned because I was still working hand in hand with the community but I was helping them find solutions. And I wasn't asking for votes in return. So it was very kind of refreshing. And after that, just wanted to become a student of the sector, I was just fascinated by it. So I left kind of the security of being part of the 1 billion endowed institution and went to a really innovative nonprofit to be their development director. And they had a small donor base, but they had something magic. It was an educational nonprofit where students who were going to be the first in their family to graduate high school and then go into college. And it was like a 12-year plan that used this sport of squash to get scholarships like Ivy League scores and get full rides. And it was on NBC with Leicester Holt recently because back when I was a part of that, we managed to secure $12.5 million for a new education center. And they're doing amazing stuff. So when I finally get back to San Diego, I can't wait to go see Access Youth Academy and all the great work they're doing there. Then bumped around again, kept on going to different facets of the social sector and philanthropy. Went to a regional association of grant makers doing some really innovative stuff and racial equity, participatory fundraising. A lot of the kind of trends we're seeing now, giving circles and building out the knowledge there. So it's kind of more of a fundraising knowledge broker where it's really just connecting the dots for our members who are corporate funders, individual kind of philanthropists, et cetera, impact investors. And yeah, just had some fun there. And then went on to be the chief of staff at National University. Fundraising Academy is one of your amazing sponsors. So I was kind of knee deep in the strategy and execution there for all that they were achieving. And yeah, it was just great fun there. My wife got a great opportunity to come to Austin, emerging tech hub, as everyone knows, a lot of big companies moving there. And went to the University of Texas, Austin. And from there, I was always interested in future focused philanthropy, but that was more kind of a primer for strategic planning and are we thinking about the future and what do the solutions look like? But there I got to see the technology aspects of it and realized that no one was really talking about what the tech was coming down like quantum computing, AI, machine learning, 3D printing. A lot of this stuff was very early on, not only kind of commercially, but in nonprofit world, no one was talking about the percentage of people that were distrustful with AI and the robots and AI kind of would take our jobs with sky high. So my goal after I understood it and because I've been a generalist in the nonprofit space and politics for so long, I was able to look at it at a much different angle and kind of see the applications and not kind of make bold predictions or go, this is the technological ramifications of X, but I knew enough to be dangerous and again, no one was speaking about it in the sector. So just looked at what the next 10 years might be deconstructed in a way where it made sense to create some blogs about it and with that, it just really took off and it was really popular and got to the point where a book was again, a natural evolution of what I was thinking and what the sector was asking for. So I've worked with a number of great nonprofit tech companies that work with AI to fundraising, some people that are kind of working on the blockchain to bring cryptocurrency to be a standardized giving vehicle rather than a way to get through capital gains, et cetera. And it's just been great and everyone's opened to conversations like this and just happy to lift up the awareness of what the tech is and what it means for us moving forward. You know, it's so interesting because we were talking about this in the shitty chat or the green room chatter, so often in the nonprofit sector, we are reactionary and we're dealing with problems. I mean, literally there's a line of people that need care outside our building, right? Or something like that. And so to look forward is really a daunting thing and I don't think we have enough thought leaders who really are looking that in a futuristic way to our detriment. So one of the things you talk about, and I have to say when I was looking at these slides, it kind of broke my heart quite a bit because I'm a big baseball fan and I think Moneyball has ruined the sport. And so you're like, I see this nonprofit Moneyball and Talent Optimization. Say it ain't so, my friend, say it ain't so. I think that sometimes you need to look for analogies that people can relate to. So I don't think that I'm going to ruin the past times of giving back and service. So you can take a deep breath on that one. But I definitely think that we need to realize that AI and robots, they're not going to take all our jobs, but they're going to totally turn industries upside down to the point where a lot of entry level and kind of like mid-level jobs will be obsolete and the industries will be obsolete. And a lot of those folks are, unless we have a big upskilling kind of strategy through the federal government, we're going to see a lot of people come to the services industry, to healthcare, to kind of food, but also to the social sector and nonprofits. So with this kind of Moneyball thing, it's really identifying the skills and talents that are transferable and realize that impact investing is a new kind of emerging industry and the people that have had access to it, it's mainly been people that have been in the financial services, which doesn't lend itself to people that work hand in hand in the communities or represent those that you wish to serve. So again, it's identifying what the jobs of the future are going to look like for nonprofits. I think we'll see community organizers, I think that we'll see financial analysts, I think that we'll see a lot more technologists, et cetera. So again, it's inviting them into the sector, see that they've got a home there and that they can lift up society in a way that benefits all. And, but things have to change there. Like we have to remunerate our staff fairly, pay them what they're worth. We can't have these kind of entrenched structures where we're bringing people in at different levels of pay when someone else in the same position isn't getting there. There needs to be a real talent pipeline. So we're investing in our folks. When I see that budget line that says staff development, it shouldn't be just going to a conference. It should be helping them credential to learn more, to go through the Fundraising Academy, to get their CFRE and also work arm in arm with them so that they see themselves in the organization. And when a long-serving CEO moves on, that they look within first rather than kind of going out of town. And this is what kind of got me interested in the nonprofit space. Because I've seen such a cliff face with people that would go through emerging leaders cohorts, would join YNPM, EPIP, et cetera, and would have that investment. And people would be coming as an intern and be rapidly moved into middle management. And then they would be there for 10 years waiting for the person that just went through that process to move on. And then they were never the people that got there. And what you'd see is people would just drift. They'd even move out of town to get a better paying job or a job where they could have that leadership experience. Or they'd have the families, like life would happen, and you're basically losing civic assets. Because when you get to 40 and you're actually starting to come back into senior leadership, you're pulling the levers of change, it's very hard to go, okay, to your partner, I need to go to the town hall today to put forward my voice, why we should have like a dog park kind of thing when you have your child's piano recital. These are all things that are real tension in a nonprofit space. And I think that if we invested early in our talent and people saw themselves, they wouldn't be bouncing out. Fundraisers leave after 16 months, they go back to the private sector. So nonprofit moneyball is about identifying talent and really nurturing it to a point where it's gonna help our sector be as effective as possible. And I think tech's gonna come in and really help inform these future leaders about what we can do. We can move beyond triage for philanthropy and we can start seeding the solutions of tomorrow. You know, it's so interesting because we talk about this a lot and time is blown by and I wanna get onto this next question but I can tell you that I have a lot of hope by just seeing how much the American university system is now offering degree and actual educational tracks just for philanthropic management, non-profit management. And you know, that's something that did not exist until very recently. And so I agree with you. I think this is an exciting time. Now you talk part and parcel about this of that we need to really look at re-imagining institutions and that's a big part of I think the direction of future philanthropy, your book. Talk to us about what that means. Yeah, definitely. So I've obviously been in government, I've been in kind of non-profits, I've been in organized philanthropy and over time I've just come to realize that if you want real systems changed you have to change the laws that govern them. Like a non-profit can seed the solutions but we have to change our institutions if we're gonna move forward we're gonna have equity in the space or we're gonna have opportunity that really can generate some form of social mobility that is both aspirational but also kind of informative, like kind of intentional as it were. So reimagining institutions was a fun kind of part of the book because it basically wove in the theory of kind of the talent that's gonna drive it and also the trends that would fuel it and look at some of the monoliths that we have at the moment. Like we even looked at the US Postal Service realising, well, if we didn't do Saturday delivery we could save $3.1 billion and that could go into the social space. The post office could be an additional banking pillar that could seed solutions by being a fiscal agent for rural communities. So it's really just again looking at institutions and what can they be? What can they leverage? Like non-profit universities, so I worked at National University and they had a very innovative program, the fundraising academy, kind of stuff across social, emotional learning. So Brookings Institute did a really great report that was showing that non-profit universities are 30% of all university placements. There's 1600 institutions and donors, mega donors actually going to non-profit institutions to build products, to drive policy, to build projects out, to test out some of the solutions of the future rather than building their own private foundations. So I think we're seeing a shift here in the flexibility and more of a kind of entrepreneurial style to philanthropy and its solutions that can garner. You know, and I think that's a really good point because that leads me to the next question and I guess the next point because we are looking at so many new ways. I think this pandemic, and we always like to say there've been a few pandemics, you know, civil unrest, we've had economic, we've had health, political pandemics, if you will, that have all been in this short run. What do you see our philanthropic trends? And when you say they're at a tipping point, what does that mean? Because sometimes the tipping point's scary and sometimes it's really liberating. I'm like, I can't wait to hear what you have to say on this. Yeah, it's funny. The book took around two years to write, but obviously there was a lot of interviews that went into informing the process and a lot of the trends are like impact investing, giving circles, kind of building that culture of giving. But over the past few years, I've really seen that the trends in terms of tech have been accelerated to a point where they're really becoming the focal points. Like we were seeing organizations now that are tackling donor-advised funds. Like regardless of what your position is on that, the main sticking point for them being effective was really how do you get money out of the door in a timely fashion, so it's not hoarding billions with the intent of actually getting it into the community. But two, they were a vehicle that was really there for wealthier individuals, like for a community foundation to open a daft, it was $25,000. Then Schwab came in, Fidelity came in, and they kind of mixed up the sector a bit, but there was still $5,000 to come in. Now you're seeing organizations like DATHI, which is kind of an app where it's free to open up a donor-advised fund and start giving from that moment on. And they're investing in kind of diversified portfolios that have environmental impact. They're also looking at kind of cryptocurrency as well to kind of make gains for the individual. And there's only a matter of time before you're gonna start seeing data and dashboards there of real-time stats and the impact you're having, which is then gonna incentivize and gamify a bit more to give more. And I think that's gonna be the key ingredient to making sure that giving becomes, reaches that ceiling of over 3% of GDP. And I know that the sector's been crying out to move past that as a humongous milestone. So, yeah, I think tech's gonna come in, AI and fundraising. You know, it's not gonna be the fundraiser, but it's gonna inform us in ways that we've never been able to in the past. It's gonna be able to go through kind of data sets and visualize them in ways which we didn't understand that that could be a major gift donor. I think that this year we're gonna start seeing a lot of hired organizations that have big campaigns have like some eight-figure gifts because someone has been literally pinged by a machine to say, you should talk to this person. So it's exciting and the tipping point can be scary, but we have to realize the nonprofit sector is always 10 years behind the game in terms of technological trends where we end up being looked at as another revenue vertical rather than kind of working arm in arm to solve solutions that have plagued our society for decades. Exactly. Well, it's such an interesting thing too. I mean, we have this phenomenal wealth shift, especially in our country, we have an aging society, we have societal norms that are changing and we have this huge, huge leap of interest, I would say, in service. And so it's such a fascinating time to be in this. We have a really interesting question that's come in. It's from Lauren, and I'm gonna throw this at you because it really fits with, I think what we're talking about, Ryan. Her question is, what is your insight about the role of seniors, baby boomers, with nonprofits, leaving retirement, returning to the nonprofit field? I mean, I would add the great resignation, you have people of different socioeconomic means where they're like, okay, I've built my nest egg and now I wanna do something that is spiritual for me. What do you see this in the mix? Yeah, I definitely think that we need to be, like everyone that is in that space, jump on board, we need your help, we need to kind of know when to link arms, know when to kind of get out the way and know when that person has an opportunity to lead kind of thing. So, I know that the sector sometimes calls out people, of certain demographics, et cetera, or different stages of their career, saying kind of let the younger folks go through, but the folks need to be realized they're not being called out, they're being called in and we really need to embrace all hands on deck. People are dying in the streets and we have a real opportunity through tech, just through kind of good world humanity to really address these things and really come out of the fog of COVID as a new generation geared towards service because we've been disconnected for so long. So I'm really optimistic about the kind of next decade, not just kind of the gains in society in kind of terms of technology, but also a new era of civic engagement. And I think we're seeing that with kind of voting participation going up no matter what how polarized it is, where we're seeing more engagement on that front and that can only be seen as a good thing. It's just how do we kind of make it a fair and kind of level playing field for all people to be actors in society. Right, and it's so interesting. Think about just in 10 years how corporate America is now having entire units within their structure that does nothing but organize their employees to do something philanthropic. From having them matching t-shirts and showing up to build a house or cleaning a park, whatever it is, it's fascinating to me. And then I also think it's very interesting to see the American school system adopt volunteer days within their actual curriculum, where I've seen some schools where every week, Friday is a half day and you're expected to spend the second half in a volunteer situation, that is tracked, that is tracked. And you can't just like meander off to the ice cream parlor, I'm dating myself. But you know what I'm saying? It's a really interesting thing. So I like what you have to say that it is a new dawn. Wow, it's been amazing to have you on. I wanna share Ryan's information really quickly again before I give you more information about the book, ryanjanard.com, you've got a great site with a lot of your writing on it, a lot of your insights, check that site out. And then I love the cover of your book because it says a lot about how we need to be thinking. And really exciting, exciting opportunity to really understand maybe how things can get better for us as opposed to just looking at this immediacy of what the newest crisis is. I love Ryan, how you're giving us a lens into what the future could be for our sector. And you said something magical as we were getting started. And that was the professionalism and really treating this as a viable career choice for this next generation. Yeah, it'd be great seeing people come from high school and want to go to college to learn more about philanthropy and fundraising. They just don't have that lane at the moment. So people, you'll never see another interview where in five to 10 years time where people go, I fell into the role, you know. So that's one thing we can strive for. Yeah, I love that. And I just, we were talking also, you know before we got going and I witnessed to you that because you said, you know that you had been involved with Fundraising Academy and I was like, if I had had this training, you know from the get-go as a community fundraiser not paid a volunteer just for my service, I could have raised so much more money for my community. I could have made such a bigger impact rather than just, you know, hardlining it and taking people to lunch and squeezing their arms. I mean, which is what I've done for my life. And so this is really, I think part and parcel of the maturation of what we need to be doing. And it has been amazing to have you on. I hope you come back and chat with us and share with us some of these ideas and trends that you're seeing because it's really behooves all of us to understand what can be in store. And also I think too, Ryan, what we can support. It's, you know, really interesting kind of small steps that we can as we're looking at our own landscape and our own organizations or communities. Yeah, well, you guys providing a platform like this is definitely one of the ways to kind of stoke and inspire that creativity. So I appreciate all you do for the sector. And yeah, no, I look forward to continuing the conversation. We could have gone on for a couple of hours here. That's just for sure. I know you're speaking my language, my friend. Because I love this discussion. I love anything future and trend analysis and looking at the things, looking backward, looking forward. You know, I just, I think that that is the genius of success and you can kind of put yourself in this position. And it's really hard. It takes a lot of patience and vulnerability. I'm a big proponent of the 10, 10, 10 rule. Where are you gonna be in the next 10 months, 10 weeks and 10 years so that you can help pull yourself out? And so this has been super, super cool. I have really, really, really enjoyed this. And we have another viewer that's written in. Great conversation. I look forward to reading this book. So future philanthropy, you can get this book. You also have it available on Kindle, which is super cool. And so yeah, we are just delighted that you were here with us today. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, my trusty sidekick. Jared Ransom will be back with us tomorrow. Again, we wanna thank all of our presenting sponsors who are with us day in and day out to allow us to really dig deep into some conversations that we don't often get to have in our sector because we're so busy trying to, you know, fend off the wolves at the doors. My mother would say, you know, this is a really great opportunity and the perfect time of year, Ryan. So thank you for being here with us. And I'm gonna hold you to it. We're gonna have you back in the hot seat to kind of get some ideas about how we can strengthen our sector and where we can move forward because this is a time that we really, really need to be doing this and having more conversations. Wow, everybody, it's been a great way to start our short week. As I was talking to Ryan, I'm like, is this a Monday? Is this a short week, long week, long weekend? But yeah, this has been really great. You have really kicked off some new approaches and new thoughts for us, Ryan. And we are super excited that we were able to chat with you. You know, we like to end every episode with our mantra and that is stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Thanks, Ryan.