 Hello, how you want so. Yeah, so this is today's sick update remitting and we do have several items on the agenda. But I also noticed that James is posting a requirement in the chat books. I think James you can start with introduce yourself a little bit. And then we can discuss your agenda, your item in agenda. Go ahead, James. Thank you, Harry. So yeah, my name is James Lobaki. I'm a work in product management at red hat, but the been focused on Kubernetes and obviously open shift on the red hat side. But I guess one of the things I put on that on the pose agenda items I just wanted to kind of introduce myself but also one of the communities that we started called conveyor. So I think I put a link to it. It's www.conveyor K O N P E Y O R dot IO. And the whole idea behind this community is we we've we've recognized the need for practitioners developers sys admins sres wanting more tooling to help them analyze their applications and help with re hosting refactoring and re platforming. And so we're beginning we have a number of open source tools that are there. The source codes all open a lot of the builds and development are not really done in an open fashion yet and we're moving towards that. So directionally we're trying to kind of build a community of tools that help people get their applications onto Kubernetes and kind of aligned with the CNC F projects and architectures. I just wanted to bring that up let everybody know about it and see if there are any opportunities to collaborate or if there's any advice the group would have for kind of a community that's just starting to ensure. Josh Burke is from Red Hat who I think some of you may know is really helping us to make sure that we, you know, put the right governance structures in place and licensing to allow for more contribution from outside the community is outside of Red Hat as well as we kind of try and build that community but I just wanted to bring that up and see if there's opportunities to collaborate and if not completely fair if there if there are more than happy to work with folks. That's great. Yeah, Sieg App Delivery is really very happy to collaborate with this new project to help advocating as well as connect these project maintainers, these different folks from other companies. This is a very open Sieg. So I don't know if you have any plan to do a presentation to the Sieg today or maybe next meeting to have a schedule for that. Yeah, I could certainly if you want I didn't I didn't want to assume that I would have the time to do it today. But I could certainly, you know, I think if you want to, we could set up a follow up where I can walk you through some slides explaining kind of the different tools that we've open sourced and put in there, and some of the direction that we're thinking about going with with with investment in engineering and development. And then, you know, we, we also have some meetups that we run where we're trying to have people talk about the problems they're facing when trying to refactor or rehost or re platform. And, and so, yeah, but I think maybe Harry next time I could, if there's a slot on the next meeting for 15 minutes I could walk everybody through some slides. Okay, so I will density put your presentation as agenda for next meeting. So you will be the first to do the presentation. That makes sense. Perfect. Thank you so much. Okay, and on the other hand, if you any help from the Sieg as well, please let me know you can ping me offline on Slack as well. Okay, thank you. Sure. So this is a first item in today's agenda, a introducing of a new project, which is focused on application migration, I think, on communities. We are looking forward to see its presentation next meeting. Okay, the next agenda in today's meeting as were some update from the operator working group. I also noticed, there are several progress is on this working group. I'm not sure if anyone from the operator working group to give the update. Also, I'm curious about what's the current status of the chairs. And we need to. So there are some nominations in the state of delivery mailing list. So I'm not sure if anyone here and I'm happy to let you let you folks introduce yourself a little bit. So from state of delivery, I will then show their support their supports in the state of delivery mailing list anyone from the operator working group. Yes, and I will stop to the current progress. We did some additions in the last few weeks, but did not make very much progress. I hope this will get better in the next few weeks. Yes, to my personal, I'm nominated as a chair for the operator working group. Senior cloud engineer at Dana trace and working on cloud platforms on deployment of applications, and so on. Yes, I, in the last few months, I tried to get the working group working and to get people joining this working group to this working group. Yes, I would love to do the chair for the working group. So the second one is open. Yeah, hi. Hi, I'm Homer. I'm stuff, develop stuff engineer at sneak at the cloud platform groups so also building internal cloud platform for the company. Yeah, we use Thomas in the last few weeks was working on the operator. White paper. Cool. Jennifer is not here today. We are trying this in the last in the last month, and also did a lot of progress in the operator working group. Yes, and I also think that she would. She would be a good fit for the chair for chair. Yeah. Yeah, I also said that I lost has already put your names only see gap the mailing list so if anyone has any concerns or objections just let us know by sending emails to the mailing list and also you could show your sponsor and support and your support for the three folks for the co chair of the operating working group. So please check the email in the mailing list, and we can move forward with the operator working group. And the next item is for the github's working group and we definitely had another meeting several days ago. And so there are a lot of progress over there as well as discussions on the expected delivery for the github's working group so I'm not sure anyone from from the github's working group want to give the quick update on that. Yeah, I'm happy to do so. And so, as he said we had our second community meeting was last week on Thursday, we're aiming for about roughly a monthly cadence on those we're going to do a lot of work asynchronously. And I have on my to do list to connect with you. Harry and or Eloise to help me with some of the administrative administrative yeah getting meetings on the CNCF calendar we want to establish a Google group, you know that kind of stuff so I'll be I'll reach out to you offline on getting some help with some of that stuff. In terms of just the highlights of the last meeting. I will, we need to get the worker notes up online and LinkedIn all the right places but there are notes. And so if anybody's interested until we get those organized and online just send me a note and I'll send you the link. A couple of things of note is that we have officially moved our get have repository over into a new organization called the github's working group. The expectation there is that they will have kind of a root repo that is the centralized thing for the github's working group. And then we expect to be building other repositories that might be sample applications or those types of things so that's why we have an organization. So we've moved everything over there including the governance model that is in place we of course will as a part of the working of the working group. Take any discussion or PRs or those types of things around the governance but we have kind of the scaffolding in place if you will. We also have decided that our first deliverable will be a get ops definition slash manifesto slash there was another name that came up commitment. And so that is something we have a you know a draft that we are able to collaborate on. And some of the other things there's two other things that we discussed during that meeting that there was general appetite for which is, we would like to create a website that will host for example the manifesto. We're working along the lines of 12 factor net, you know, something that can give folks kind of a high level overview of what the principles of get ops are, and kind of be very inspirational from that perspective. So we definitely want to do some kind of a website. And certainly the other thing that came up which is really a catalog of use cases and our case studies. Those types of things are hugely valuable and I think there was a lot of appetite and enthusiasm for that. So we will have a concerted effort to have folks contribute those use cases and contribute the case studies so that we can help to kind of inform and educate people who are coming to the topic, topic, topic of get ops for the first time. And I think that is kind of the high level update. I have some small questions. So, I really love the idea that we set up the website for the get ops working group. I will send a link over there. It's, it's looks like very similar to what you are describing. I send a link in the chat box. Do you, are you aware of this website. It seems a little bit similar to what you are describing right. You know that the I have had not been on the website. Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, I am familiar with these folks we have been communicating with them they put together this ebook. And you'll notice for example that it on the cover it says forward by Alexis Richardson. And so we have done a review of some of the material there. And these are folks that we definitely would like to pull into the community so that's a great point I think it's more focused around kind of. Yeah, I'm also planning on selling their book. So this is more of a website for their book, then it is kind of a generic get ups, you know, get ups community website. So, I see, but yes, thank you for putting that on our radar. Yeah, yeah, I'm also hoping that we can collaborate with those folks if there's any possibility and then we will have a yeah, we don't need to have different websites, talking about github. So it's interesting, as you can imagine, you know, we've works being kind of the pointers of the term, we get, we get in contact a lot with people who and there's a fair bit of chatter out there there's folks who are putting together training courses on get ups and those types of things and so that's something that we definitely aim to do with the working group is to really kind of form a collective community it's not that we're the only ones that are doing anything in that space, but one of the other things that we talked about it was a little, maybe a little bit smaller but to keep a catalog of resources of talks. So for example, Dan is doing a talk at a conference or maybe has already done a talk at a conference on get ups and and what we're doing in the get ups community and the get ups working group. So we want to curate a list of links of resources to to other, you know, a list of links to other resources that people can leverage from the website. Another thing I want to bring up is during the forming the charter of the get ups working group. They do notice there are several folks mentioning that they are, they have concern with the name of the manifesto. Yep. Yep, which is why we've, I don't know that. Yeah, which is why we've proposed somebody proposed that the concept of commitment. So that is something we have not landed on a name, but you're right people did did. And so I'm just using manifesto slash definition slash commitment because we haven't named it yet. Okay, so we will decided final name for that right. Yep. Okay, that's a good, that's good point. Yes, this is just this simple question I have, and I'm seeing that github's working group is making very quick progress and a lot of people are collaborating on this working group hoping they can make it better in the future activities. Sure. So this is about the update from the working groups and my, I personally do have update on my side regarding to the, the project incubation. And so this time we are reviewing the flux project. On behalf of the sense of sick delivery and with collaboration with to see. I will be the contact person for incubation process of flux per discussion in the to see github repo, and Michelle will be the to see sponsor and she will be the main contact person to review this process on behalf of the to see. We will be collaborating together to make sure that we have a quick and detailed review process, and we are now working on the due diligence documentation together with flux maintainers as well as to see, and we have a stick of course, and we will send out to the final job to as long as we finished the current content and try to let more folks from the seek up delivery to live to leave comments and to show your opinions or ideas regarding to the documentation. And another update is, we are also calling for review on the end users of flux project. So if you are in the user flux you want to, you want to be part of the interview, please feel free to contact me or Michelle. We are very happy to involve you as the end user interview for this incubation review process. And another update regarding to flux is, because recently there's a small change happen in flux community because that is flagger was merged to the flux organization as part of the flux family project. So we will also involve flagger as part of this review. So this is a little bit different from the original proposal which is only which was only flux project alone so now we basically have a flux family to review. So this is this little change will also have will also be reflected on the due diligence doc. And we will also add the contents regarding to the flagger part of the review as well. So yeah, this is update from my side. Anyone have any questions on the flux incubation review process or has any idea on that. Please just let me know. Okay, so since everybody is good with the current process. Then we will move to the next discussion which which was actually raised by to see from a recent to the meeting. And this question is about basically about what is the next big thing for since the in the in areas we have, for example, what is the next thing we want to put I own with or want to onboard in the app delivery in app delivery ecosystem. I personally also want to have this discussion with everybody here, because right now we have Kubernetes we have our goal we have blocks we have a lot of, I will say very promising project in the family of the city of delivery. And also, but the TLC also raises this question, what is next big thing what should be the, the, the next step we want to achieve in sync up delivery. I'm already looking at some very current age. So when the assembly. We know that people that they are actually trying to deliver applications by using web assembly sandboxes. And I'm also trying to have a discussion discussion with you folks. So what will be the next thing we think we try to invest in the sense of as well as in sync up delivery. Anyone has idea on that. How about application abstraction. What kind of abstraction your mission, like right now, the developers need to know a lot of Kubernetes manifest to be able to. Oh, I see. So I know that there's to Bella there's way and I think Google is also working on something. So how about more abstracting Kubernetes for application developers. Yeah, we are looking at another is more getups of cloud resources. That is really good idea. So I think that traction for applications are really important for developer experience developer experience is actually one of the most important item also brought up for the TLC I think, as a sense of organization we should definitely invest on this field to help people understand better on how to use the clone a technology so today. We are basically very focused on the. We'll say it's infrastructure layer. We are talking about networking storage containers thing like that but yeah I totally agree that we should have some some investment on the developer experience and application abstraction is definitely one of them. I think I, I hear you mentioned it's gate ops for the color resources. So, so far, we focused on like deploying the stateless apps. But for example, the architecture pattern we use and into it is like the containers running majority on Kubernetes are stateless where the state is maintained in a database. Or so we are following a similar pattern to deploy those cloud resources sometimes they're associated with application deployment. Sometimes they are deployed independently. And although they are decorative people are using Terraform or CFN or something like that. Now they want to also follow getups for that. This is a very interesting topic so what what is the details under on our food is there any operators like cross pen as the execution layer or it can work with either operator or Terraform. So, AWS had open source operator operator for cloud, but there's no cloud agnostic operator. And that's one area we are looking at and thinking whether we should just go ahead and open source. I see, I see. I think the project for AWS is ACK correct. Yes, ACK. I got it. Yeah, I think this approach we are basically trying to promote a unified approach to manager the cloud resources alongside of your Kubernetes applications by putting the same github pattern correct this is idea. So we already see like users in github's work in github's Slack channels, deploying Lambda using sometimes Argo, even like we internally when we set up our AWS accounts to deploy the clusters we create the accounts we can or set up the security groups and the VPCs using our internal github's tools which we haven't yet open source, but this is one area where not just us I see people talking about it, even in the CNCF github Slack channel Kubernetes github Slack channel. Great. This also bring bring up the needs for maybe abstraction for cloud resources. Right. For example, how we can describe the AWS RDS with the CRD or with some very simple and descriptive descriptor instead of its role called API. So I don't know how you solve that problem. So, so firstly, we are not even sure whether we should create CRDs because we are trying to address needs of users who use Kubernetes or who use EC2 as compute. So, for example, internally when we develop, those are not CRDs those are regular services. And we are using for example, CDK. We are not using CDC suppose internally today we support AWS CDK and Terraform. But when we open source obviously we have to see like whether it should be a controller and CRD. Okay. Personally, very interesting in this topic because I saw a lot of needs for for managing cloud resources, alongside with your applications for in the same pattern. Yeah, I'm looking forward to see anything open source coming coming next. And then definitely stick up delivery want to put them into the scope of the next big thing for stick up delivery. Thank you. Okay. Right, this is this is the main discussion I want to bring up is sick today. If anyone has an idea regarding to what we should invest next, or trying to import some new project in this era to to make sure that things safe are investing only future. We are very happy to continue this discussion, whether on a slack or on a mailing list. Maybe generally are very eager to onboard more project very happy to talk to their maintainers to contribute or donate their new project, their new ideas. And part of the same set, especially today we have a very low bar sandbox process, which can also help a lot for us to incubate new projects, and we also discussing the same safe that we may want to have some. This is a mentor program to help early stage project to grow, even though they are sandbox level, but we are definitely discussing discussing something like a mentor program to help with the project to incubate to moving to the incubation stage. Yeah, this is basically the idea where the best where the idea coming from and we want to find some early stage projects which are more like the future investment. And we'll have a mentor program or something like that to help with those project growth day by day, and they may fail. That's okay. But as long as some of them growing to a promising project, then we basically are doing very good things for the community. Okay, this is all I have on the agenda of today's secret delivery meeting. So if anyone have any other topics in which not listing there but you want to discuss. Okay, so I think they are good for today's secret delivery secret delivery meeting and we're happy to see you folks and thank you everyone. See you next time. Thank you. Bye bye.