 Welcome to NewsClick, I am Sumedha Pal. Today we're having an extremely important discussion as we commemorate, celebrate the legacy of journalist Gauri Lankesh. Gauri Lankesh was attacked and brutally killed three years ago. And today we're having this very important discussion with her sister, Kavita Lankesh, who is also a filmmaker. Thank you, Kavita, for joining us and discussing Gauri's legacy with us, sharing your insights with us today. To begin our discussion, the first thing that we'd like to know from you is that it's been three years. And over the past three years, of course, Gauri's legacy, her presence and her journalism have of course inspired so many people. And also there have been the state of journalism and India has also changed quite rapidly. So I want to know from you how you see her legacy in the present times, how you reflect on her work, post her death and the current state of affairs of the media and press freedom. Yeah, see, first of all, I think Gauri became a journalist inspired by my father, P. Lankesh. And as you know, he was one of the few journalists who was very, very bold in his statement. And he was always stood against corruption and against any exploitation of the minorities or anybody. So that way, and my father was the one who actually brought down governments to his newspaper by exposing a lot of inadequacies in the government. Then whoever the government be, he always used to say journalism should be a watchful eye on the government, not like the present times when it's become like a pamphlet for the government basically. That's what the media has come down to and Gauri believing in his ideals and that's how he just took all the paper. In fact, that was one of the only newspapers which had no advertisements because my father said, though we could have made much more money at that time because it was very popular, he said, no, I'm not gonna bow down to any advertisements because then it becomes commercialized and also we are gonna bow down to all these corporate, so even governments, because we are expecting ads from governments to run a paper. So he was very, very few newspapers in the world can run without advertisements and he did that. And when Gauri took it over, she said, I'm gonna abide by the same principles, though she was floundering and there was not much money, which is still stuck to her guns and she said, no, I'm gonna continue my father's legacy that way. Though my father never said, Gauri should run it or somebody should run it. He just, I mean, he thought his ideas should run on. You know, that was the only thing. And Gauri, in fact, as you know, she came from English journalism and she was at that point working for different newspaper in Delhi and the television channel. And when my father died, she came back and actually her Canada was not that good. And you know, she's learned Canada over the, of course we could all speak Canada very well and read, but we were not, when you compare her to us too, my father who had a great, what do you call, mastery over the language, we didn't have that and we still don't actually. But she took it over as mantle and she said, I'm gonna learn and in fact, she really became very good at it. At the same time, I think, coming down to regional journalism, she was very, very much more, she went very grassroot level. Just like my father, when he did, he brought literature, everything to the grassroot level. He was not on a pedestal and talking down to people that way. So the same idealism Gauri took over and she could run the paper that way. And of course, she dealt with a lot more local news and a lot more local issues and fought for the rights of the minorities, women, children, you know, this kind of, so it went on like that. And I think right now what you can ask me, it's much more vital somebody like Gauri be there. I'm thankful for a handful of journalists, a handful of independent journalism, like you also, you know, many other, the wire or people like that who are trying to go on, you know, be news on the internet and online, basically newspapers because to survive, you know, it's been very difficult. If Gauri, as you know, when she died, I mean, she was assassinated, she had 80 cases on her. So people, I mean, I mean, I don't mind the cases, at least it was tolerant in that way, not like as my father would say. We were never, many people asked me, were you scared or was Gauri scared? But we never thought our lives was a danger or Gauri's life was a danger because we come from the family of Gankai, who was much more bolder than any of us put together. But in spite of that, I think the country is becoming increasingly intolerant. If I say that maybe I'll also be called anti-national and has to leave the country. But there's this set of awareness, the intolerance has become much more. There's been very much, a lot of polarizing as Kanayakumar rightly said, it's not just divide and rule, but it's divide, divert and rule. You know, the media is covering, I think it's a joke where the media covers anything these days, especially television in these times. It's in Canada, if you see the whole corona COVID cases, instead of concentrating on many of the issues which the migrants were put to problem because of the sudden lockdown and everything, they were covering all sorts of nonsensical things and the kind of music they gave it become a horror story. So I can imagine what Gauri would have said at these times, everything I get back to her. And of course, she would be very, very disappointed. I think very, very angry and resentful of the whole happenings around our society. But at the same time, I'm sure she would have a smile and hope also, like, you know, either for the future. Otherwise, you can't fight it out. You can't be a, you know, you can't protest anything like that without having the kind of question the government, question the media, question journalism, ethics itself these days. So this is very important. And these questions keep bothering me, knowing she's not there anymore and yeah. How are you continuing with the newspaper what is happening over there with the publication? See, publication, I was not involved in it when she was alive as well. And when she just killed her group of friends and activist friends, few journalists got together and they wanted to start something called Nanu Gauri by the time the permission was not given by the central, you know. So they started something called Nyaya Patha and that's doing all right. But the more than that, Nanu Gauri on the net is doing very well. That's doing a lot of, you know, a lot of leadership has been gathering. So it's fine. I mean, whoever does it, it's not like, as I said, this is not a legacy, it's not a property in the sense of physical property where you can be queued to somebody. So even my father never expected, even Gauri didn't expect it, but I'm happy that there's still that whole group is there trying to voice out, to be the voice of the marginalized, you know, fight for the issue, rightful issues and things like that. So I'm happy that they're doing a good job. Yes. And of course, the ideas that you mentioned that it is not a property. It's a legacy that she has instilled in so many of us who read her, who have believed in her ideas and the fact to do journalism, which is bold, which is questioning those in power. How do you see the kind of religious fanaticism that has taken over the press as well as in the community as a whole? Like you were mentioning earlier, she would smile and she would, of course, be very disappointed. What do you think she would have said in terms of reflecting on the kind of coverage that we see of a lot of things, the migrant workers, the marginalized communities? Yeah, absolutely. See, for instance, the whole corona when it started, the whole, the way the Obligies were attacked and questioned and every, even in my neighborhood, everywhere the polarizing was so much that every Muslim was looked at, every minority was looked at with hate and with, you know, with the kind of, as it is, we have a social taboos, the social distancing is a bad word as, you know, eventually it happened and it's physical distancing. We have all come up with social distancing. I mean, I mean, the whole past we have been, the Dalits have been, you know, this whole, we have, our country is such that there's always been untouchability, there's always been, you know, difference of polarizing, but these days with the media, it's really, really worse, it's becoming worse and it's really, people are not worried about the joblessness of youth and people are not bothered about, as you said, the marginalized workers, the migrants who are left on the road without even getting a free train ticket to their own native place. So these are very, very, very, very disturbing sites and, you know, issues which we have to talk about. But instead, what are we talking about? We're talking about, you know, religion, we are talking about the polarizing, we're talking about dividing, eating other people. People come, I mean, they say them and us, I said, who is them, who is us? You know, this is the kind of situation it's been, it's been really, it was a very subtle thing earlier, you know, we would at least have the decorum and decency people would have to talk or not show it out openly and all the hatred and lynching has become so common. Nobody's bothered, nobody's talking about it and I'm sure Gauri would have been really, really, she would have been forefront of all these issues and fighting for it. I mean, in the sense she used to tell me earlier, as I've told numerous times, why don't you come for this protest and that protest and of course my protest was in the form of my film, my art and everybody called me as the same. But after she's gone, I have been to many of the protests and I have been sitting on the steps of town hall, the center place of protest in Bangalore and yeah, I've been thinking of her and I hope she's proud of me at some point, a little bit because I'm not so vocal because if something like that, a murder and assassination can happen within your family, you do get a little weary and scared to talk and voice out because you know as the social media becomes full of hatred, if you suppose anything, even something as inconsequential as maybe poor migrant, why would they put in this position? There's a lot of trolling happening, saying as if you did something, what is that? The hate to hate filled messages. So I don't know, it's a very, very intolerant society we are living in and very shallow it's becoming because nobody is going in depth. I mean, Gauri would help me that way, you know, in my scripts or in any social issues or political issues when I talked to her, she would always tell me and that, you know, maybe we would go into in depth about it. So that kind of thing we don't have in our society anymore. We're all armchair activists and filled with opinionated people, so it's very, very dangerous and difficult science. And it is this kind of fanaticism and the polarization that you're referring to that led to her assassination because there was no tolerance for truth or no tolerance for this in-depth research or the facts. And so what's the battle and the case has been extremely difficult for you, of course. So what is happening legally on that front? What is going on with her killers? I mean, one thing it was commendable of the SIT Karnataka to an amazing job and they've got all the, you know, about 19 people are in, you know, arrested. And of course, and they have a very tight case that we're not happy about that. Though, of course, we had no hope at all in the beginning because they were also floundering for the first three, four months, they were like looking in the dark. And but at the same time, after the first arrest of one, and I mean, things started falling into place. And I'm happy that I'm in touch with the our workers and Hameed and Megha Pansale and Vijay Kalburgi here, since it's all connected. And we were actually in the stage of asking the court to have a maybe special court to fast track the case because that's where it is taking a lot of time. And I'm happy that there have been applications for bail, but nobody has been given bail and they have rejected it. I wish the government has, you know, wish the government really constitute a special court and hear the case faster because it, otherwise it can go on for years, as you know, because it's not just my sister's murder. And at the same time, as you know, the list of when they found the diary or one of the guys, they found a lot more people in it. You know, it's going to be targeted in the next. So but thankfully, because of so many people caught, the future plans have been thwarted a bit, but I don't know when they will rise up, make another team and so I think it's important. They're really punished according to the law. So there'll be some justice for all the murders, not just Gauri's. And speaking of justice, speaking of, you know, the targeting that happens and this is targeting which happened across lines, rationalists have been targeted and there is a sustained movement that many of the people across cities are now trying to run to draw on the legacy of Gauri, to draw on the legacy of Mr. Dhabolkar, to speak about the truth, to speak about rational ideas and to hope that, you know, the larger public would be able to see it. So what is the kind of a way forward that we see in terms of the movement, in terms of the messaging that should go out to people? I think as I told you, a lot of independent journalism is very important and it's important to people, secular people who believe in democracy, who believe in constitution, who believe in justice, should really support independent journalism, independent media or even single individual voices. It's important a lot of support is gathered. Otherwise, as I said, the whole media, social media is filled with invisible trollers who can bring your spirits down. I mean, I remember, I mean, as you all aware that Gauri also was trolled and so much hate message she had got. So that kind of thing can really kill a spirit and actually make you think, self-censorship is what I call it. We might think, why do we need to bother about all this? Let's just keep quiet or let's not get into it. I mean, I myself have gone through that. In fact, when Gauri was alive in this very same place we were discussing once and I posted something and I started getting hate messages against me, my family, everybody, which is completely relevant and talking about environment. And it was like hateful and I started replying back and Gauri said, no, don't do it. Just don't look at the replies or anything, but I'm not the type. So I could delete the whole whatever I posted. But in spite of it, at least what I believe in I'm retweeting, reposting, and of course things I believe in, I have to do it. Though my daughter is very reluctant because just put it on her and this thing whenever I treat she gets a message. So she says, don't do it. So there's a lot of fear in terms because it can happen with anybody's family, a brutal murder like this can really put a fear in your mind. But at least the least we can do is speak about it, I guess. That kind of freedom of space, freedom of expression. If you don't have, what is the point of living? I mean, it's important, I think. Of course I'll always show my opinion, my issues through my films, but at the same time it's also important to show solidarity with people who are fighting for such issues. So I mean, I'm doing my best, I think, through because of Gauri and Kavita, completely all because of my sister. On that note, I think it's a very special thing that you said that the least that we can do for our country, for our communities is to speak up, it's to show solidarity. And Kavita, thank you so much for sharing all these insights with us. I really value it and I hope our viewers found it very insightful as well. Thanks for speaking to us again. Thank you.