 This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to all of you, including Pat, Mike Cortez, DeGrasia, A. Daniels and our new patron, Luke. Welcome, Luke. On this episode of DTNS, Tim Stevens took the first Rolls Royce EV for a spin and tells us what four to $500,000 will get you. Plus, a standard to use light for wireless internet is legitimately called Wi-Fi. And we check up on the health of this whole AI wave because this is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, July 13th, 2023 in Los Angeles on Tom Merritt. And from Studio of the Seven Fishes, I'm Sarah Lane. From New York State, I'm Tim Stevens. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Before the show, Tim was telling us that he had pancakes today, which on a Thursday seems very New England of you. It is. I got to stay on brand, Tom. Yes. No, I love that. It's good to have you back. Thanks for coming back, Tim. It's great to be here. Let's start with the quick hits. The U.S. Federal Trade Commission filed a notice that it will appeal a district court decision earlier this week that decided not to stop Microsoft from closing its deal to acquire Activision Blizzard. The timing is getting tight, though. A temporary restraining order put in place before this week's decision expires Friday, July 14th, as of this recording that would be tomorrow. Without any other legal action, Microsoft would be free to complete its acquisition in the U.S. by the deal's deadline of July 18th. Now, NASDAQ seems to think that this is probably a likely thing. It announced a replacement for Activism Blizzard on the NASDAQ 100 Index for July 17th, a day before the deal's deadline. To stop the merger, the FTC would, at the very least, need the appeals court to issue a new restraining order. The current one is only temporary. The deal is approved in all other markets except for the U.K. That is where Microsoft is still negotiating with the competition and markets authority or CMA on restructuring that may include a small divestiture. Google's text generator, Bard, has finally launched in the European Union after the addition of privacy features requested by regulators there. That includes more prominent information on how data is used and a central hub where users can opt out of Bard using their data for training. Bard also added support for 40 new languages, including Arabic and Vietnamese, and launched in Brazil as well. Well, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, the FTC, is pretty busy these days. It sent a civil investigative demand to open AI announcing the beginning of a probe into harms possibly caused by chat GPT publishing false information. It's also asking detailed questions about data security practices. The updated public beta of iOS 17 includes support for bilingual Siri, which means you can mix two languages together in one query. So not just it understands two languages, but all in one request. It also adds a full page screenshot function. This is similar to the scrolling screenshots feature in Android phones. And an update to the public beta of Mac OS Sonoma adds support for Apple's iCloud Keychain password manager in Chromium based browsers. So not just Safari. Apple has an extension specifically for Microsoft Edge, as a matter of fact. Telly has begun shipping its free and supported 50 inch 4k TVs. You might recall these are unique because they include a nine inch secondary screen underneath that lives below that main TV showing information, including ads and return for that free TV that you may have signed up for because quite a few people did. You have to agree to use it as your primary television. You have to keep it connected to the Internet. You can't block ads and you have to let it collect data on you among some other requirements. If you violate those terms, you have to return the TV or get charged up to $1,000. And they have your credit card. So yeah, yeah. All right, let's let's check in on on AI. How is Chad and Bard and Claude and all them doing? Well, I'm glad you asked on because, you know, depending on who you are, you may say, Oh, this is the, you know, few it's the beginning of a wonderful future where you might not be super stoked about it. Text generators are heading a rocky patch in some sectors. So let's go through a few examples. UC Berkeley professor Stuart Russell told a UN Summit that developers are running out of text to train chatbot to train chatbots. Companies like open AI have allegedly been buying private data sets because they're running out of public data to train these LLMs large language models and regulators and the public are starting to push back on some unfettered use of public data as well. So the worries about them getting better and better may may just be unfounded because there may be enough data for them to continue to get better on. There's a study that's not yet peer reviewed that did the math with image generators, but the same math would apply to text generators to speculate on when they would stop being useful if they kept training on AI generated data. In other words, if all the data they had was other data created by other generators, how useful would it be? And it turns out if they don't have human made data, they have a problem fairly quickly. Then there's the issue of whether or not these tools are useful for creative pursuits. Maybe you're an author. You may have heard that Sarah Silverman is suing open AI for copyright infringement. But lots of authors have tried to use the tools to see if they can help improve their writing process. So you know, your mileage may vary, right? Kyle Chaka writes in the New Yorker about his attempt to replace himself with a model from a startup called writer trained on his own writing. He found it akin to an enthusiastic and productive but rarely on target personal intern. He found an editor AI called mine Sarah more useful but said it didn't really save him time either. And finally, the Washington Post reports that the numbers from similar web indicate that traffic to chat GPT fell 9.7% in June month over month. So again, there's there's still positive stories about there. But this seemed like a lot of interesting stories about maybe we're starting to approach the limits of what these are useful for are happening at once today. I don't know, Tim, is it it's too early to call the end of chat GPT right? Yeah, absolutely it is. But I do think that we can say to the end of the shiny new thing phase of AI where people are starting to think a little bit more critically and more analytically about this. Yeah, when it comes to the concern of not having enough data, I mean, obviously, if you've shoved the entirety of the human textual language database into a system, and it's still not producing viable output, then presumably the system itself needs some updates. And so I'm sure that they're looking at that. But to me, I think the most interesting story going forward, or at least the next six to 12 months will be the these legal proceedings, you know, what are the the protections of authors and creative content producers? What do they have when it comes to the use of their content within these systems? You know, presumably a director of a film would mind if their film was shown to a film class, and then those students went off and made films that were kind of inspired by their work. But obviously, if their films are then shoved into an AI, and that AI then generates work based on their content, that feels like a different thing for some reason. I think that those are some murky areas that I'm really curious to see how they shake out in the courts. Yeah, it does feel like we are we are cresting the wave that that we there's no Moore's law for for large language models. So I'm not saying they'll never get better, but they may not continue to get better at the pace that they've been getting better, which is what caused everyone to be so impressed when chat GPT was launched. And that means now we have time to entertain these discussions, and stop worrying about whether they will take over the world and eliminate us for a while and start worrying about that question that Tim was talking about right now, which is there is no law that applies to this because it isn't the same as a human taking a class. So it's not what should the law do, but what should the law be? This is a legislative, not a judicial problem, in my opinion. And even the legal stuff aside, Kyle, Jacob saying in the New Yorker article, you know, it was it was like having an intern that is really excited to be part of the group, but is kind of making my job harder, instead of easier, or at least not making it easier, right? I have, I have, you know, I've played around with as many language models as I can, just for fun, really, especially for the purposes of putting together a daily tech news show, you know, saying that, okay, write me a paragraph, then I have to look through it, make sure it makes sense. Oftentimes it doesn't pull out the inaccuracies, there's some inaccuracies, but even just the proofing process itself is kind of, you know, because we kind of have a turnkey operation going on here. Sometimes that alone makes me feel like it, it drags me down. So yeah, for, you know, for authors to say, okay, well, you know, some of us have legal issues with the whole thing. And other authors saying, Well, we're trying to figure out why this is helping, you know, we're still in those early days. Yeah, whistleow 34 says AI cannot be inspired, it can only duplicate. I take issue with that. It may not be inspired, but it can do more than duplicate or else it wouldn't be as popular right now as it is if it was simple duplication. And I think that's what makes the legal issue so complex. And it's also what makes it so complex to understand what it's good for when helping an author. Again, there was the author who said, Look, this was trained on me. So there's no copyright problem because I agreed, train it on me to help me. It still didn't quite capture him. And that's an interesting New Yorker article, I would highly recommend reading. Well, the IEEE, the standards organization has finally seen the light and added the 802 11 double B standard for light based wireless communication. Yep. Lifi, not L I E L I L. Lifi uses infrared instead of radio frequencies to transmit information. Now the big advantage of Lifi is speed up to 224 gigabits per second. So much faster than your current Wi Fi connection also works in an optical spectrum without much interference. So there's not going to be anything else competing for its bandwidth. So it's very reliable, low latency, low jitter. And you can use existing light fixtures in rooms to double as Lifi transmitters. Now, downside, of course, is it's light, it's visible light, it bounces off walls. So it's going to stay in whatever room and it's in, though I guess from a security standpoint, that could be somewhat of an upside, you're not going to have these dropping or jamming as easily. Making Lifi a standard is going to help with developing interoperability with Wi Fi so that you can use both. A company called Pure Lifi has a module called the light antenna one that's available right now. If you're a manufacturer wanting to integrate this into a device, you could talk to them and more companies with more products are going to follow. It sounds like we're going to see more of this at Mobile World Congress come in next February. Yeah, and it's exciting to see I think we've all seen concepts of this kind of technology at places like CES and WC and a C tech in Japan for a long time now for probably a decade or more. And to see this really finalized to see IEEE getting behind it and really designating this as a standard that that businesses can now implement. That's great news. It'll finally come forward. I don't think you know we're not really looking at a replacement for Wi Fi. If anything, this is really going to complement existing wireless networks, either in places where extra security is needed or even in places where extra bandwidth is needed. If you have one very high bandwidth application, it might be more efficient to basically add a Wi Fi to that room or to that area just to serve that one device and then rely on Wi Fi elsewhere in your business or in your home. So it's exciting stuff to see that and also positioning is another aspect of this as well. You can get really accurate positioning based on Wi Fi, which could be great for businesses too. Yeah, that was going to be my question. And maybe you answered it, Tim, is okay, if I if I have a decent Wi Fi connection throughout a home, but there's one room, maybe it's a large room, maybe it's just positioned strangely where Wi Fi could could help. Do I need bridge devices to talk to other Wi Fi rooms? Yeah, you know, like, I'm not totally sure how this gets laid out. But in concept, this sounds like a really great solution, particularly, you know, if you live somewhere that, you know, maybe you're in a, you know, dense urban area or a lot of trees around or, you know, for whatever reason, Wi Fi has been a struggle. Yeah, in my home, for example, I have a cement garage that's really hard for me to get a good signal in there. So it might be possible for me to run either into that room and then basically have a device in there that acts as kind of a Wi Fi transmitter. But theoretically down the road, we could see these integrated into Hue light bulbs, for example, that could then individually work as repeaters for your network and high speed repeaters of that. So right now, the devices that are available right now are few, so they're basically are kind of broadcasters that go within rooms. But down the road, pretty much anything's possible. Yeah, spotlights at a concert, beam and connectivity, all the data right out into the audience. Yeah, and making this a standard when one of the important things about this being ratified, nitribly adding it as the standard is that it is easier now to develop that interoperability you're talking about, Sarah, to be like, Okay, how, how do we best bridge a connection between Wi Fi and Wi Fi so that they work well together? And we can, we can light up Tim's garage with internet connectivity. I'm looking forward to 802 to 11 BB Y max x dual parity. I, I'm wondering if this does take off and who knows whether it really will or not. Like how fast do they go from 802 11 BB to Wi Fi two? Like they already learned with Wi Fi six and Wi Fi six e and, and all of that. But well, knowing that so many people in our audience have different lots of different setups for connectivity because we get emails from you all the time. If someone's like, this is why this will work for me so well, yeah, do do let us know feedback at daily tech news show.com. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. I could I would use it even though I have wonderful Wi Fi in this room. I would use it if it's more reliable, lower latency. And it's just it could be that it's not that you don't have Wi Fi. It's that you need better. You don't want to have that lag that Wi Fi gives you and then you could put a light bulb in that's broadcast. Yeah, I mean, sure. I mean, you know, many of us are familiar with mesh networks. But if you already have a bunch of lamps, you can be part of your network. That's pretty cool. Yeah, pair that up with power line ethernet and you've got a really nice solution. Not bad. There you go. There you go. Well, thanks to everybody who have become new patrons. Congrats. And we're glad to have you. Congratulations to us really. And you've increased your pledges across the board. So many of you have because of your support, we can bring Molly Wood on the show one Friday, every other month. Our original goal was every for every once a month on Fridays. But to reach our goal of having Molly that one Friday every month, we do still need help. So if you haven't already, maybe you're on the fence, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com slash DTNS. Rolls Royce. When you think of it, you probably think luxury, you probably think refinement in automobiles. It's a brand associated with royalty, you know, you see the prince or the king or the head of state or the celebrity VIP riding in one. And now the company is bringing its vision of luxury to the electric vehicle market with its elector EV. Tim, you did a story. I'm sorry, the specter. Tim, you did a story on this. I got confused with the one we're going to talk about in Good Day Internet. Tim, you did a story on the specter for Inverse. What did you learn about it? Yeah, it was definitely a very interesting car. I mean, we're talking about a car that starts at $420,000. So you would expect it to be good, you know, given the fact that it costs that much. But but Rolls representatives told me it's actually going to cost most people spend upwards of $550,000 after you get done with custom paint, custom materials options, lighting and that kind of thing. So again, for a car that costs about half a million bucks, you would expect it to be good. But what I wasn't expecting was just how it would drive. I've driven a few Rolls Royces over the years, and they do have a very distinctive ride quality, a very distinctive application of power, you know, the description of wafting along is never more appropriate than it is in a Rolls Royce. But you know, having driven a lot of EVs over the years, you kind of expect this really snappy, immediate rush of torque and quick acceleration, which the Rolls Royce engineers didn't really want. And so despite that, this is an incredibly powerful car, accelerating to 60 in 4.4 seconds, which for a massive car is quite impressive. The power application is actually very gentle and very subtle. And it doesn't really drive like any other EV on the road. And the other thing is the ride quality is remarkably good, even over the worst rough roads, it was just perfectly smooth and soft, which is again, another area that a lot of the EVs suffer with Tesla's the Model 3 and Model Y in particular have really awful ride quality. But this thing was spectacular. And it's really just the first step for Rolls Royces, they are electrifying their entire portfolio. They said that in 2030, they'll make their last internal combustion engine and their entire lineup will be EV in just seven years. And for a company that's been building cars for 120 years now, that's a pretty radical change to make in just seven. That's been about a two and a half billion dollar investment that the Rolls Royce CEO told me. And for a company that only makes about 6,000 cars a year, that's a massive investment for them. So this is the first step. And it's really, really, really impressive. Yeah, that was gonna be my first Oh, sorry, Tom, no, go ahead, Sarah. That was gonna be my first question is a friend of mine who is very into luxury cars. Neither of us can afford them. But you know, he knows more than I do. My my first question was like, what do you think about this? And he says, two things. First of all, Rolls Royces are known to be like, very quiet. So an EV version of this is like, what are you, you know, I mean, is it like truly just like luxury in a silent type of way? And the second was Rolls Royce doesn't make a lot of cars every year. So in the EV category, let's say we get to 2030, are they ramping up production? Do they feel like it's going to be, you know, you know, a better way to sell more cars? Or does the company not even care about that at this price point? Yeah, they're really in that ultra premium luxury space where people are fighting to get these cars. So for them, they don't really want to increase volume significantly. They did just add an SUV to their range not that long ago, which did help them to increase production up from I think about 5,000 to 6,000. But they're not really looking to go significantly higher than that. What they want to do, of course, is drive higher margins, get people to buy more options. And ultimately, they want to keep the prestige of their brand high. But yeah, absolutely. In terms of sound and things like that, you know, I've been lucky to go to the Pebble Beach Concours a couple of times and there's quite a few Rolls Royces that drive out on the lawn. And the ones, especially from the 30s and the 40s, they are absolutely totally silenced, which means some pretty complicated exhaust systems and those things because they've got big old motors in there. Now they don't have to worry about that. And that's that's an impressive thing. But a fun note, though, this does make a sound. You can turn it on or off. But as you accelerate, it makes this kind of very interesting, very odd cinematic sound. I think I said it sound like a bumblebee stuck in a reverb factory. It was just really hard and hard to describe. But it was almost like like a cinematic trailer kind of thing, like an inception kind of sound that as you get on the throttle, very subtle, it seems to come from all around you. And it's it's actually really surprisingly Is it similar to the sound of workers being oppressed? Yes, the hopes and dreams of the military at being. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. That would make sense. No, I'll kidding aside. I do think it's significant to see Rolls Royce make this commitment and make an SUV on top of it, because it strikes me that Tesla kicked off the electric vehicle conversion by popularizing electric vehicles, showing that they could be sports cars, that this wasn't just, you know, something that that a hobbyist would use. I think before Tesla, people thought of EVs as mini cars, as little hobbyist things. And Tesla said, let's show you it can be luxury. Then we descended down into, well, can they also be for everybody? And we've got there. So now it's time to close the circle and get back to the super luxury, like even more luxury than a Tesla would ever be. Yeah, absolutely. We have EVs from Mercedes Benz, from BMW, from Genesis, all luxurious, very comfortable, very incredibly nice EVs for sure. But this is the ultra premium, the kind of stuff that, as you said before, Tom, kings and queens are driven around in and, you know, billionaires have to play with. And to be able to, you know, A, it's definitely a vote of confidence for EVs that Rolls Royce is making their entire business. They're committing to this going forward. But also, yeah, it's really impressive to see how well it fits into this segment. And I think ultimately it's going to be a great choice for a lot of people. In fact, the Rolls CEO told me that of the pre-orders they've had for this car, 40% are actually new to Rolls Royce, which is far and away a new record for them. Mostly time, it's just repeat customers that come back or clients as they call them, excuse me, repeat clients that come back. Yeah. Now, I know you had mentioned in your review, Tim, that this is a really big car. You can fit four people in there, but really the two people in the driver and passenger seat are the ones that are the most comfortable. Why so big? It's all about presence. In fact, if you pop the hood on this thing, there's basically nothing in there. There's not a frunk, there's no engine, of course. It's just kind of sadly a big waste of space, but they wanted that long hood that's really iconic of Rolls Royce and that vertical grille, which they impressively managed to deliver despite having really good aerodynamics, 0.26 aerodynamics, which is on par with some of the more efficient, slippery EVs out there. So it's all about the presence, it's all about the same, but this thing has the same footprint as a Cadillac Escalade. Wow. Yeah, that's a big car. It's apartment-sized for some people. You could have your valid live in it. People with three kids everywhere are like, oh, shoot. Well, I guess I won't get it then. It is interesting to see the luxury brands all embrace SUVs, even even Rolls Royce. Yeah, absolutely. Well, is on the transportation train a little bit different, though. As some local governments around the world have clamped down on e-bikes, e-scooters, e-things, the results are getting creative in some parts of the world. For example, the Straits Times notes that in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, some folks, particularly younger folks, have started using electric wheel chairs to get around because wheel chairs aren't subjected to traffic rules the way that e-bikes are. Not yet, anyway. Some of those regulations reportedly include restricting the speed of e-bikes, requiring getting off the bike when going through a zebra crossing, for example. The loophole may be that in Guangzhou, according to the Straits Times, quote, the Transportation Department reportedly said that only motorized wheel chairs for the disabled, which use petrol as fuel, are bound by traffic regulations and require registration. So if you aren't mobility impaired and are really using the wheelchair to get around, you kind of have some leverage over e-bikes, at least for now. Yeah, there's a whole situation about whether whether it's it's good ethics for folks to be be doing this. But it does sound like it's more about it's as much about the fuel as it is about the intention of the use because it was petrol using fuel versus the electric wheel chairs. And more than anything to me, it shows that life finds a way. If you if you make the e-bikes against the law, folks will find some way other way to get around. And that's what they're doing in Guangzhou. I'm kind of optimistic. It's actually me. Oh, go ahead, Tim. I was going to say I'm optimistic as well that this actually spurs some innovation on the electric wheelchair side of things, because that is an area that is actually pretty stagnant. I've been trying to find something for my mother. And there are not a lot of good options out there. Sorry, Sven. Yeah, no, you made my point exactly. It's having more people say, you know what, here's where accessibility could really be helped for people who have to be in wheelchairs rather than choose to be in wheelchairs. That that that is maybe a maybe a good thing overall. Totally agree. All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. C writes in saying this is in response to conversation we were having about the gig economy. She says I've been a professional door dasher for almost two years. By that, I mean that door dash is my only job and I do it full time. I work in a large tourist town in the southern Midwest. I don't know how things are going in other markets, but in my little corner of the world, gig delivery is thriving. One of the things I prefer about door dash is that it is ubiquitous and on the verge of becoming genericized. That's as Scott said, part of that is that door dash will work with anybody that will work with them. So Pizza Hut, Papa Jones, Red Lobster, some local expensive restaurants and seas neighborhood, even three or four food trucks in the area. C says even the places that have their own delivery drivers, for example, Papa Jones, Pizza Hut, use us because our delivery area is larger than they can support with their own drivers. You don't want to send somebody to or three drivers to anywhere 20 minutes or more away because then basically you're short those drivers for the next hour. So most places shorten their delivery radius to 10 to 15 minutes away. C says we can help them expand the reach and get customers that they would not otherwise be able to serve us. Yeah, if you're wondering what conversation C is responding to, this was in Good Day Internet yesterday. We talked about Domino's getting on board with a partnership with Uber Eats and the fact that Domino's was continuing to use their own delivery drivers as part of that partnership. And as C eloquently points out, it wasn't so much that a chain was working with Uber Eats. There's there's plenty of examples of that as he mentioned, but that Domino's was doing it because they had resisted it for so long. So it's it's interesting to see that and really appreciate C giving the driver's perspective there. Yeah, indeed, indeed. I I know some folks who do this, but I can't think of anybody who's doing it full time or at least not that says, yeah, and it's working for me. So, you know, it probably depends on, you know, your geographic area, among other things, but I'm doing it in a Rolls Royce specter. Oh, there you go. There you go. And would you would you pay extra to have your in and out to have your pizza delivered in luxury? Yeah. Well, Tim Stevens, you might, you know, you you you get to hang out in way more automobiles than the rest of us do, kind of jealous of your job, to be honest, but let folks know we can keep up with the rest of your work. Yeah, thanks, Sarah. You can definitely check me out. My substack is Tim Stevens at substack.com. I'm on Twitter, Tim, underscore Stevens for who knows how long and Tim Stevens pretty much everywhere else. And I'll have a follow up to this piece in my interview with the Rolls Royce CEO on Fast Company should be hitting pretty much any day now, so keep an eye out for that. Fantastic. And patrons, stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet. Tim has another EV that I accidentally alluded to earlier in the show from Carlotis. He's going to tell us about that. It happens to also mark his return to Engadget, almost exactly 10 years after he left. Stick around for that. Just a reminder, you can catch our show live because we do it live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern 20 hundred UTC. You can find out more at daily technewshow.com slash live. Do join us live if you can. We'd love to have you and we'll be Rolls Royce seen right along on tomorrow's show covering the EV industry support for Tesla's charging network with Bodi Grimm joining us talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.