 and welcome to another episode of Recover Loud, I'm Mike Paddleford and I Recover Loud. Tonight's episode we're going to be speaking with Tommy Hayes from Rumford. Tommy is a registered peer recovery coach and trainer and distributor of Naloxone. Let's watch as Tommy recovers loud. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Recover Loud. I'm sitting here today with Tommy Hayes from Rumford, Maine. Welcome Tommy, thanks for coming. Thank you Mike, thank you for allowing me to come here and share my story today. Absolutely, so Tommy you're somebody that identifies as a recovery ally and to me that's it's pretty amazing that you don't feel like you've had these struggles that many of us in substance use disorder dealt with but you're out there trying to help us. So can you tell me a little bit about your background? What made you decide to jump in as a recovery coach and try to help this community? Well first to start off with I Kathy, the director of Layer of the Blind Recovery Center. She's known me my entire life and she gave me the opportunity just to become a staff member of LLRC and then once she presented the opportunity of becoming a recovery coach I had a feeling that I would probably be a good fit for this whereas I have a lot of family members who are dealing with substance use disorder on a daily basis even right now or you know even in the past life where they're in recovery now but it's something once I took the class and went through the five-day training course through CCAR and through Portland Recovery Center it was definitely a good fit I could see myself you know moving forward with this and helping out our community of the River Valley area. Yeah that's great and of course western Maine just like any part of Maine has its struggles and you know I see western Maine come up in the news all the time and what we don't see is you know a lot of recovery over that way. I actually took a ride out to the Larry Labani Center the other day and I was actually surprised at the support that it seemed the community had. The Larry Labani Center is there to support people. A staff of how many people work there right now? I think right now we have a staff of five people. Five people yes and you mentioned Kathy. Kathy started that correct. Kathy and Lonnie started the Recovery Center after seeing quite a few of Lonnie's friends struggle over his lifetime and just overwhelming how much our area of River Valley needs it so they had first just having the idea of Lonnie has a business right now and we use part of that building as their recovery center so we have a location but they just didn't know where to start from there they had the idea we had a big fundraiser and we had a lot of people come out for that first thing so that way we could get construction underway. Yeah and you know it's it's great just for somebody to have that idea and to to see it through you know it's not easy to start a recovery center and you know for people to have the heart and willingness to help you know just like you you know joining the team doing the work that it takes to become a registered or a certified recovery coach you know it's not easy but you decided to do it. You actually you don't struggle with substance use disorder but you do struggle with the disease of your own can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes I have a muscular and nerve disease called Sharco Marie Tooth disease it's kind of like the shark animal and they just put an L on the end but it deals with my muscles and nerves it's progressive and it's hereditary so right now there isn't a cure for it but just like anything else there's tons of research being done there is improvements here and there with medicine but nothing too much of a case yet that I could be eligible for so it's just dealing with the daily struggles of limited mobility from my flexibility and just the lack of muscle. And it is a hereditary disease? Yes. So you've had it from day one? Yes I started showing symptoms probably about middle school but even before then elementary school I would fail gym because I couldn't run or keep up with the other kids. Okay so you knew something was going on? Correct my grandmother has it significantly and so did my great-grandmother as well as there's some other family members that have it as well at the time I was probably the oldest the youngest out of our family to show symptoms of it. So that must have been tough for you to to go from you know what you considered you know your normal childhood to finding out you had this debilitating disease. How did you handle that did it affect you in your daily life your mental stability? It definitely is something that I've had to struggle with a majority of my life just because of until I got a diagnosis we always knew there was something wrong but could never say like oh this why I couldn't keep up with everybody else or for example gym class we would go skiing and I would only be able to do a quarter of what the entire class would be able to do in what a class period would be so that was always a struggle with me with doing the physical activities needed for schooling and everything like that and whereas I didn't have a diagnosis I really wasn't exempt for anything like that so I was still really pushed to do everything even know I didn't have the ability to do it. Gotcha. So throughout your struggles with that you were telling me about a you know a community of people advocates trying to do things for Charco Marie Tooth. Can you tell us what's going on and how you're involved you're trying to be involved? Yes it's just in the beginning stages right now but an organization called Charco Marie Tooth Awareness at Charco Marie Tooth Association has started a group of streamers on Twitch and maybe a couple other streaming platforms to kind of raise awareness of Charco Marie Tooth and other things that we deal with on a daily life just for example one thing I've struggled with just growing up you know we see everybody else just opening a regular soda bottle like it's nothing but with me I have very limited mobility of my hands so I have a soda bottle and I use my thumb on my chin and I add that extra pressure so that way I can open it so that was a big thing growing up was adapting to making things work for me. So the your hands that started in the middle school or were your hands always? My hands have always been a little difficult to deal with now that I'm getting older it's definitely progressing more. What's happening is my fingers are starting to curl so my fingertips are coming in towards my palms. I mean and that's hard to accept a lot of times you know and what I notice from you tell me is your positive attitude and your smile all the time. I've met you in 12-step meetings online you know and I've seen you out at the Larry the Barney Center. How do you keep your smile? That's something I am I always wonder myself because it is a struggle to deal with everything. I think partly because I've seen other families deal with it, other family members deal with it and pushing past the struggle is something that you know all of us have to deal with no matter what our issue is but getting past the struggle whether it be is like on a daily basis I have to put on and take off my leg braces and that is quite a bit of a struggle pain wise for me and it's getting to the point where I almost can't do that. Dealing with it when it comes up and knowing that for myself the pain at this point is only for a minute or two while I'm doing the activity. It is a daily struggle every day but it's something that I feel is all I'm gonna have to deal with it for the rest of my life so I'm just gonna have to keep pushing and just keep doing what I'm doing to maintain what I do now. Nothing lasts forever you know that pain isn't going to last forever right you know you can alter the way you do things you can come up with a better way of doing it for yourself to not inflict pain you can find other ways to open a soda bottle you know so you don't have to give up the activities you just have to get through it right you know in recovery I mean we're all dealing with that you know and that's you know that's a great lesson you know we are all going to struggle with something we all have to find a way to cope with it and you know in our in my previous life I chose substances to avoid it but you know now in recovery I have to find ways to cope to get through and I know it's not gonna last forever so I'm glad you've learned that in that aspect of your life. So tell us a little bit about your work at Larry LeBonte. What is it that you you do at the center? What are you doing? So when I'm staffing the center on my days to work we meet anybody who comes through the door you know whatever part of recovery they're in whether they're only thinking about recovery they're not sure if even what they're doing on a day-to-day is even harming their life or then somebody who says I want to get into treatment right now and then we have a good sized binder that we've gone through and we have a lot of resources throughout the state that we can try to narrow down with talking with them what would be more appropriate of a place to refer them to than just any recovery program or something like that we're definitely sorry we're definitely not pushing anything over another type of recovery it's whatever they feel as though they want to travel down for a path of recovery but it's meeting them where they are when they come through their door of like I said either starting recovery maintaining just looking for meetings in our area because they're new to our area or wherever the case may be meeting them at that point at the door when they first come in. So as recovery coaches we support all pathways of recovery because we never know what's what it's going to take for somebody to get that you know some people try many different paths before they figure out what works for them so for us to to try to push something on to somebody you know that might not be what they need and it might not be what they want we try to support whatever decisions that they they come up with. My definition of recovery encompasses the entire spectrum of the process of change and as you mentioned you know the pre-contemplation is step one you know so when we decide that I'm sick and tired of doing the same thing every day struggling every day with this you know that's that's part of it you know before we even put the substances down our recovery can start you know harm reduction is a big part of somebody's journey or can be a big part of somebody's journey you know and harm reduction encompasses everything from using naloxone to a syringe service program and you know I mean even in our normal lives wearing a seat belt is harm reduction so in harm reduction abstinence may be a goal of their recovery journey but in that stage it might not be you know and that's not for us to tell them you know you need to do this so that you get sober you need to do this so you live today. Exactly quite frequently what I hear from folks in our community is that it's a choice of what they're doing and a big thing that I've seen is with somebody who's in that pre-contemplation state is who am I when I'm not using or in active addiction so for some people it's you know once it seems so scary to even take that first step of even asking for help because they feel as though this is something I need every day who am I without that right so making a big life choice like that is something when somebody walks into our center we want to ease them into that you know get them into some either just programs to start out or whatever the case may be meet them at that point yeah and you know you're somebody you're actually you became the naloxone coordinator at the center yes so you train and distribute naloxone what and you're actually going out into the community to distribute you're not just waiting for people to come get it can you tell us about some of the outreach programs that you're involved in so right now we're doing on Thursdays we head out to Norway in front of common ground counseling as long as the weather permitted if it's a downpour we're not unfortunately we're not going to head out that way it is quite a drive for us and we're definitely not going to get people showing up to our table who would need to be coming to our table but on the days that as long as it permitted we're out there from 11 to 230 and in Norway and that's anybody who'd like to come up to our table we can train them of how to use Narcan what's happening during an overdose and what should what are the steps that should be taken in case you are there when that happens yeah Tommy you had told me about a program that uh you guys are involved in with the Larry Labani Center uh were you going into the schools to speak to kids can you talk about that yes um right now we're in a middle school helping out some students some students have our support just as they have things happening in their life at home that they may need to talk about but then also as almost like a consequence from the school um not necessarily like they're getting in trouble with us or anything but we're just there to more or less provide information about if for example they had brought a vape of some kind of school you know we could meet with them for a couple of weeks once a week just to kind of talk about vaping and any questions they may have about other things of substance use disorder or things that go along those lines that we might be able to help them out with so I think it's important that you're going to the schools um you know in in my opinion a lot of the trauma that we experience that leads to using happens during those those developmental years um so I appreciate you going to the schools and doing that I think that's a great program and you know having someone like you to go talk to the kids I think is very very uh very important and effective um yes I know for myself I felt as though going into these schools might be another step for most kids have dare program now but I know for myself when I was at that age of even before going into dare when we got a letter at home saying you know this is what dare is and this is what it's covering you know I was told by quite a few family members this is what we don't talk about outside the house so no matter what is said at dare this is what we do and that's okay so going in as almost at this middle school age is something along the lines of you know we were in that same situation that you were and we're not saying that we made all the right decisions but we're just here to pass along some information that we we wish we we had when we were in middle school or around that that age yeah absolutely and you know I I just want to thank you for that work um I I think you know it's important and if we could have someone in the schools all over the state all over the country I think it would be great so you know maybe something you're doing today is going to help another program down the road I was in westbrook high school a couple weeks ago got to talk to the junior and senior class and I was surprised at how involved the students were and how focused on what we had to say that they were because when I was in school I didn't want to hear anybody telling me about drugs being bad but it was a different message back then you know you know this is your brain this is your brain on drugs none of that stuff made sense to us and it was a joke seemed like a lot of scared tactics yeah yeah and so now today um you know there's one girl that that was in the in the school with me and you know she talked about how we know you're gonna use and if you're gonna use know how to save your friends lives because that's what has come to nowadays if you're going if you're going to use then you should know how to save somebody's life and I'm actually looking forward to the end of the show you're gonna do a quick training with tea yeah and you know so stick around to the end of the show to get a quick training on how to administer no oxone um Tommy is there anything else you'd like to say to the viewers any any other message you'd like to put out there for anybody in recovery or seeking recovery please reach out there's plenty of recovery centers throughout the state I believe there's 17 right now so please reach out there's people here that will help and guide you to recovery yeah and our recovery community is constantly growing um you know that's we always talk about the the overdose numbers and the rates of death and and all that horror but our recovery community is growing you know people are starting to figure out that there is a life after using substances and you know people like you and you know other reco recovery coaches out there helping guide people you know that's where the work is and and that's that's great I appreciate everything you're doing over there thank you I really appreciate you having this show it's a great spotlight on the recovery community yeah and and that's really the goal you know to show that we are recovering you know it is possible we can live a life without using um I know when I was using I didn't believe I could you know I had accepted the fact that my life was over at the age of 40 um and that I was just waiting for death you know here five years later I'm three and a half years into recovery and I'm loving life again you know so um tremendous to hear that yeah and and it's I never expected it you know over 40 life life's over you know um but every is possible for everyone absolutely it's never too late it's never too late um and again through your struggles you're out there trying to help the rest of us um and you know you're helping your own community the Sharco Marie Tooth yes um community and you know I just I commend you for all the work you're putting hi guys welcome to T talk I'm standing here with Tommy is and um he's gonna show me and all of you have to administer naloxone if ever needed and it's important for everyone to know not just people in recovery or an addiction everyone because chances are you're gonna see someone unfortunately and you're gonna need to know what to do so he's gonna show us I had a recent event where unfortunately I I wasn't properly shown how to do it in the past and I kind of panicked luckily the police was there and I was embarrassed and that will never happen again so do not let yourself get in that situation and I want to also say pay attention because you are gonna panic when it happens and you need to know what to do so let's get started all right thank you team and so we're gonna first start out with this here is how nasal narcan comes it comes with in a box and it has two kits uh two doses this here is the two doses one big thing I get when I train people is naloxone and narcan they may be two different names but they are the same exact thing okay one is the actual um medicine name and then narcan is the company name for it so this with nasal here the the steps to be taken with this we're gonna first not give the person narcan we're gonna call 911 and then we're gonna give them air this will be called rescue breathing first we're what gonna do is out of this package here it's simply we just peel this open and when we do we have this right here this is one dose of naloxone there are a couple other forms of this but the nasal here is by far the easiest to use all types of naloxone have the same effectiveness and the same roughly the same amount of time of when they're going to become effective so if you have it use it whether it be an expiration date or whatever the case may be you can use it no matter what see I was I thought there was a piece missing because you know I didn't know that that just was so good yes with this here the nasal there's nothing to do once you take it out of this case right here it's good to go and you can use it the way we're gonna use this is we're gonna have our fingers in our thumb in a place like this and we're gonna put this into the one nostril while we're plugging the other nostril when we do this we're gonna push up on this red plunger and it's gonna aerosol once we have this aerosol this will be absorbed in the mucous membrane of somebody's nose and that's how it gets into somebody's system okay what this does is when it gets into your system it's the opioids in somebody's system is no longer effective your body does not see it in your system okay so from this point on if if you're the only one at the scene this is when you're gonna call 911 okay if you have somebody else on the scene they could be calling 911 at the same time and then give you a location of a best area where to find you okay now if someone's not overdosing and you assume they are and you give this to them is it are they safe or as far as I've been trained you can give naloxone even if you're not sure about if they're have opioids in their system and you can give multiple doses of naloxone as well okay so if they're not coming around with the first dose I'll get into that in just a second but you can give multiple doses I myself have heard of a case of a person needing 12 doses so that's six kits of Narcan from people at the scene as well as the ambulance attendants on the way to the hospital right okay um so once we have given the Narcan and we've called 911 this is when we're gonna do rescue breathing so this isn't CPR we're not doing chest compressions on somebody but we are providing oxygen to them so what we're gonna do is tip the head back and making sure that the airway is clear plugging their nose and then providing air from mouth to mouth you do want to go full mouth to mouth contact um during COVID times right now if they have a CPR shield which is something as a plastic barrier between you and the other person that allows airflow but you can also use a t-shirt some other type of fabric in the case of so you don't have to be exactly physical contact to contact during this time okay yeah that's good advice but uh yeah I don't know if I would tend to do that in that situation but I know people will you know think about that so that's good to know it can be quite hectic in the situation yes um once we have given Narcan to somebody uh and the paramedics have arrived um everybody does have the right to refuse treatment from an ambulance of being shipped to a hospital but at that time we generally ask somebody to stay with that person for at least an hour and a half after then this Narcan here in any type of Narcan medicine wears off after about 45 minutes so if the person has uh depending on the amount of opioids in somebody's system there is the possibility of a second overdose once this medicine wears off so that's why we ask you to stay with them for at least an hour and a half if you have more Narcan after the fact you can use that again call the ambulance again they will come back and they will give that person Narcan okay a big thing about Narcan it's we want to give a person at another chance at recovery it doesn't matter what they do with that out of the chance but as long as we keep giving them that chance to recovery remember recover loud thanks for joining us for another episode of recover loud you can watch us saturday nights at eight o'clock on youtube and thursday nights at seven thirty on p mc channel five in the greater portland area recover loud everyone because every time i call you pick up the phone and always reminding me that i'm not alone and even when i'm scared in my feet of frozen you help me keep it going like a semi-colon so i'ma follow your steps for all of the way up on my faith in you and walk on the waves and if i stumble a bit and fall on my face you come and save me with all of your grace yeah thank god