 Hi. Could you give us your introduction? Sure. My name is Mary Jane Bradley and I came here to what was then Raymond Walters College in 1978 and taught here for about 32 years. It was a wonderful experience. So what brought you here? Well, I had been teaching nursing at Ohio State previously and then the College of Nursing. And then after a few years my children were in grade school and I wanted to go back to teaching nursing. So someone told me, you know, there's a college right near you that has a nursing program and that's how I came over here. I was interviewed and hired right away and started here. Did you have much like expectations for teaching here? Well, I had already taught, you know, in a couple of places. So, you know, they needed a person that had a background in psychiatry and mental health. And I had that from my graduate programs and, you know, I was eager to do it. It was a very small department. I think there were only maybe seven faculty at the time, maybe a few more than that. And not very many students, probably about 60 students maybe in nursing. So I was glad to come here and try it out. What got you interested in nursing? Oh, in nursing. Well, let's see, back in the late fifties, when I was in high school, there weren't too many choices for women. And my mother said, well, you know, you could really be an English teacher or a nurse. She said, I think you'd make a really good English teacher. So being an adolescent of that age, I went into nursing. And I got fortunate because it was a perfect match. It was a very good field for me. It worked out very well. In fact, I didn't retire until I was 68 years old because I loved the students and I loved teaching, and particularly this college. It was just a wonderful place to practice and to teach. So, you know, that's why I stayed. What was the hiring process like? You know, I remember being interviewed by the, I think at the time, the director of the department, I think that's what her title was. And I don't think they had, they had search committees there in the nursing department. And then I was interviewed by Ernie Metz, and he was the dean then. And then I was in it, you know. A couple of days later they called me and said I had the job. They needed a person that had a background to teach psychiatry and mental health. And I had quite a bit of experience in that area. It was pretty simple back then. No search committees and lots of things. I mean, I'm sure I submitted a resume. You know, I had that, but it wasn't complicated. It wasn't difficult, as I remember anyway. But I had taught at the College of Nursing, so, you know, that was probably, that probably helped, even though it would have been a few years before then. You said you were at Ohio State prior? Yes, yes. I got my graduate school and my undergraduate bachelors was from Ohio State. And then I taught there for a couple of years until my husband got transferred to Cincinnati. And that's, I taught in the school, it was a school of nursing then at Ohio State. And I taught mental health and human relations in the nursing department. And we had an interdisciplinary course for nursing students, pharmacy students, and medical students. And I liked that very much. You know, that was my background in teaching. So what do you hope your students took away from your classes? Oh, my. Well, you know, you hope you take a lot away, but our students brought a lot to our classes. You know, they were very motivated, mostly young women back then, not very many men. And they were really hardworking, energetic people, and they were very interested in helping people and taking care of people. And what we did was just build on that kind of urge to add knowledge and skill so that, you know, they were quite good. Our students were very good students and, you know, graduated. And at that time we had very good pass rates for the license exam and an excellent reputation in the city. You know, anywhere we wanted to go and have our students have clinical practice. They were always eager to have them because they were very hardworking students and well-motivated and very responsible. Fortunately, you forget the ones that maybe weren't quite that good, but, you know, even now I meet students because I do some workshops with Hospice of Cincinnati and therefore practicing nurses. And so I meet some that come back and say, oh, I remember I had you at such and such a year, you know, and they're still practicing nursing and they're quite enthusiastic about what they learned in the program here and quite successful, I think, really. I'm so glad and fortunate to be a part of it, really. Did you face any challenges throughout your teaching career? Yeah, of course you do. You know, that's part of it. I mentioned to you that when I came here, I think I said that in the paper that I thought, when I first came here, the female departments had appointed heads and the rest of the departments in the college elected their chairs. And that was kind of like not uncommon in the late 70s. And somehow the climate, I think, in the city, I said, I remember there were three of us, I think, that went to this presentation by somebody, maybe Jean Baker Miller. She had written a book about the psychology of women in education and that sort of thing. And she did a presentation here. And then Gloria Steinem did a presentation. And they both happened within about a year, within the same year. And it kind of gave us, some of us, the idea that, you know, we should be running our own department just like history and psychology and those other things. And so I remember we talked to the dean to learn about it. And he just sat there and kind of smiled. And it was sort of like, well, ladies, if you think you want to do this, let's see how you manage it. You know, it wasn't in opposition by any means, but we weren't going to do it for us. You know, so at some point after a year of conversation and convincing each other that indeed we could run a department, it happened. You know, we elected our chairperson and all the structure that goes with it, all the governance structure. But I think, you know, this was nursing and nurses didn't have long history in the university. You know, they started out in hospitals and not in the academic environment. So they were kind of the youngsters in academia. And so getting to have your own department and elect your own head and make your own governance structure and write your bylaws and all that business was a news to us. So that was a very exciting time, you know, new things to do. And there were some people that were, are you sure we can do this? I mean, they didn't come around and say that, but they were kind of reluctant and hesitant. But some of us were quite enthusiastic about it and knew we could do it. So that was a good thing, you know. Were there any big, like, oppositions to, you know, you all trying to form this department? You know, I think there were some people that had misgivings, but I wouldn't say there was great opposition. There was just sort of lack of confidence, you know, more than anything, just lack of certainty that we could do it because, you know, other, well, we didn't have any models, you know, immediately available to us. So, you know, lack of experience and you're not sure. But like I said, the external world environment was such that it was very supportive of that kind of thing, you know, of women taking charge of what they were doing and demonstrating their confidence and, you know, and doing it their way. That was, in the end, that was good for our students because we were kind of modeling the kind of nursing practice that we wanted them to be able to do, you know. And if you can't run your own business, how can you ever run a unit or, you know, take care of a group of patients or teach people health care? So, you know, it kind of played out that way. Yeah, so did you feel as though there was more support once the department got running? Always I felt there was support. Here in the college, there was support, you know. You know, this college had kind of a unique beginning in that sense, I think. When I came here, I shared an office with a woman in chemistry and all of the faculty had offices with people of different disciplines. So it created a very collegial kind of group that saw the college as our students, not just your department students, but the students in the college were your students. And so we had a very cohesive group of people that were quite committed to quality teaching in this college. And I think early months, he put that group of people together initially, you know, early. And that created the kind of an environment that they were very supportive of self-government, of any kind of a structure that was going to be supportive to students and help students. And, you know, it was... You could go to other departments and get help with different kinds of things among faculty, and it was very... It also made for a lot of interdisciplinary work. The college committees here worked very well together, and there were people from every department, you know, who did things, and everybody had the same goal. So, that was good for our students. Did you ever feel like there was... Like, it's power dynamics between like the UC Blue Ash and many campus? You know, if there were, I didn't experience it at my level. You know, Ernie was a great dean. I mean, I don't know. He was a dean here for like 20 years. And, well, it's very supported by the faculty. And so, I think, kind of, Clifton probably saw as this just kind of like the college that's functioning very well, slightly out of our realm. You know, we were 20 minutes away, and probably we're not giving him any headaches at all. So, you know, I don't remember any strains. And if there were, they were at a higher level, you know, than I was aware of. And we were just growing and growing and growing, you know, and having more and more students and needing more and more buildings. I'm sure that was competition for getting money to, you know, for capital improvements. That was probably a big, you know, where's the money going to go? What are your thoughts on that expansion, UC Blue Ash? I'm sure we needed it. We always squeezed for space, you know, classroom space and office space and that sort of thing. So, I think it's nothing but good. And also, we were inclined to be very adaptive to what students needed in terms of, I mean, most of our students have, you know, they have families, they have jobs, they have all kinds of responsibilities other than just going to school. So, we had to be quite accommodating, you know, the hours and the... I remember in nursing, we started offering an evening clinical section so that students who had jobs and had families could still have. In fact, that's what I was... I taught here one quarter part-time because we were on quarters then. And that was one of the things they wanted was someone who would teach in the evenings, teach a clinical nursing course in the evening. And I thought, that'd be great. My children need to see that their dad can feed them dinner and put them to bed and do all those kinds of things that I did. And so I took on the evening program and I enjoyed it. And we were always had more students that wanted it than we had spaces for. A good thing. A good thing for students. What was the largest class size that you taught? Well, our class size probably I'm not sure. I would say maybe 40. But our clinical groups were 10 or 12. So the clinical students that you really had the closest contact with was a much smaller group when you spent quite a bit of time with them. As we increased students and increased faculty, because you had to have a faculty member with every 10 or 12 students in the clinical setting. So as the student population grew, the faculty grew in the department. And I don't know how big it is now. I don't know. I'm sure it's bigger than seven. You know. Yeah, it's probably 25, something like that maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Did you have any core values or principles that you wanted to instill in the students? Well, probably the core values that we wanted students to have had to do with their care and compassion for sick people. For the patients they encountered. And that they had to bring competence skill and confidence to what they were doing. It's one thing to be kind, but kindness with knowledge about what helps people when they're sick, that's what people need. So we wanted them to value learning and lifelong learning was a requirement in nursing as it is in all of healthcare. And we kept pushing that, I'm sure, but they recognized it. If you're in practice, you recognize right away that you have to keep up in current science and that kind of thing. Compassion without confidence doesn't cut it. When people are really sick, they want something that really knows what they're doing. Were you able to form relationships with colleagues outside your department? Oh, yes, but I need to take a drink of water. I don't stop. When you're teaching and you're used to talking a lot like this, well, like I said, the structure of the college itself facilitated that. Because sharing offices with people in different disciplines, that was the first thing. And then the college committees were made up of people from all different departments. So you immediately develop good working relationships with people in other disciplines and that was a real strength of the college. Because then you have a group of faculty that are from all different disciplines but very cohesive about what they're trying to do here, what their primary mission was. And the staff was, I should say that too, because the staff was very supportive and committed to quality. I just saw Kathy Schmottel over it in a bird shop over in Montgomery and she was one of the advisors for students then. And she was every bit as committed to figuring out how can we schedule this student into this section so she can still pick up her kids after school and that kind of thing. So there was a real commitment on the part of the staff to support the students, all of our students. That was a real strength. I'm sure that still is a strength of a college. So did any administration or deans stand out to you throughout your time at? Oh, Ernie was a hard act to follow. I think Barbara Barties was also an excellent dean for this college. She shared some of Ernie's qualities in that you seek out people that have talent, but then you let them develop and do the kinds of things that they're good at and then you, you know, have a pretty successful administration and she was that way also I think, very much so. Was there ever a time where an incident or an event was handled poorly by, you see? It's wonderful when you're getting older you forget things that are so nice or were so enjoyable. I'm sure there were because we did have a dean here and I can't even remember his name. I just remember that it wasn't going to work out and it didn't. And we had the support of Clifton administration to remove that dean and one of the, some of the other people on the list will remember I can't even remember his name, but it didn't work well for the university you know and for us it just wasn't wasn't a good fit at all you know, it didn't stay long. Then we had a renaudine right after that until we did another search and then I think that's when Barbara Bardi's came in I think didn't work well. So how has the faculty changed over time? Well, they're more often definitely and I think they're better prepared, better educated you know, lives of strengths that way. But then that also has to do with the progress of nursing you know, advanced degrees in nursing are much more common than when I had a master's degree you know, there were very few master's programs in the country then and now you know, there's doctorates in nursing and that sort of thing. So the faculty generally has more education more opportunity certifications became very common that sort of thing. So they're more skill practitioners and then you have the opportunity to have students get better exposure and better learning. Did you ever participate in research? Excuse me let me take another break that's kind of the thread is not to any degree that I think was you know we did some studies of our students and some things about what they needed to support them in the program you know I mean other than learning what are the kinds of resources they needed that sort of thing but not really no, I really didn't I was more involved I think I probably the thing that I got involved the most with that was relatively new was teaching about hospice and palliative care because that didn't start in this country until 1974 I think was the first hospice in the United States and Cincinnati hospice in Cincinnati was probably the first place and it's a non-profit hospice but there were no undergraduate programs that required students to learn about hospice and palliative care and then in about the late 90s the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation started funding education for nursing faculty to be able to teach that and so our program, two of us from our program got fellowships to go to a project at City of Hope in California in LA and and get prepared to teach hospice and palliative care so when I came back here I thought okay we've got to have this course and it has to be a required undergraduate course for nursing students and so we did that and we were the only place in the city that had that for undergraduate nursing students and we started with hospice in Cincinnati as an inpatient learning experience and to go into people's homes also because a lot of hospice care is done even now in people's homes so that was quite a big project to change your curriculum and put that in as a requirement and that was about I think we started that around one or two, something like that so how does the university form like relationships with like the hospitals to be able to send like the students out there you make contracts we had contracts with all different healthcare agencies when I left Eliti, I retired in 2010 and about that time we had contracts with 63 healthcare facilities to have students there for learning so you go and you have a meeting and you talk about what your students are qualified to do and what their requirements are, what they need you know, what kind of supervision you will provide your students because we always had faculty on-site supervising students you meet beforehand and you meet afterwards and you evaluate and you talk about how are you going to make it better that's the best benefit for students to come to that institution so we were pretty selective actually, I said that 62 contracts sounds like a lot but when you think of all the places that people get healthcare, that's not really too many places we had every major city or every hospital in the city we had contracts with, I know you negotiate the contract and many a visit have I done that Were there any times where you see like drew their contracts with certain hospitals there were a few instances where the quality of the nursing care that the students were seeing we did not think was good and we removed our students from those agencies fortunately there weren't many you know, that's a pretty big deal to do that but when you're trying to teach people to do things you want them to see the best care there is so that that sets the standard for what they would do in their own practice that's what we were looking for and in most cases, agencies that have students in practice do see the quality of the care that gets better I sort of like I was going to say I was thinking of that yesterday when you play golf with people that are really good you tend to do better so when students see nurses in practice that are really good they tend to practice better you know that was our goal with that so I guess back to research did you ever feel like as time went on that the university became more research focused because I know on main campus faculty and students talk about how they are research focused evidence based practice is absolutely what we need in all of healthcare so the research focus is definitely a need that difficulty is taking that research and applying it to practice you know how do you get from the theoretical on the data that you found and the ideas that that you supported with scientific data and then how do you get that back into practice that's the big challenge but I was never directly involved I said in my first job I was involved in research because in my first job in nursing was at Ohio State in University Hospital in the operating room and they did lots of research there all the time I remember once was on hand washing and to this day my kids my children who are now 50 and 48 tell me we remember wrong we know how to wash our hands we know how to wash our hands because we didn't study about hand washing and what kind of soap worked best and whether you should use hot water cold water all this kind of stuff but that was me as a subject you know part of the we'd wash our hands and then they'd swab our hands and you know try to grow the organisms in petri dishes and see how clean our hands were when we were working in the operating room that was evidence based practice you know so how has uh oh were you going to say something well I so I think the University focusing on you know more research is good for us you have to balance it though with quality teaching because otherwise you don't bridge the you don't get down to how do you apply the research to everyday education you know to what you're trying to teach your students here I think the emphasis was always on quality teaching you know that was the major now there were research projects on teaching and quality teaching on what constitutes effective classroom environment and that sort of thing you know and that was always worth doing so how has the campus become more diverse over time I suppose I mean I know it became more diverse but why I guess because it was just a major push to make it more diverse to make it available but I think when you make it available at different hours to people you're going to get a more diverse population when you have a lot of really good support services for students you know tutoring services and that sort of thing you can get a more diverse population and that was always the strength of this college you know the student services were really good and we had a language lab an English lab and a math lab and you know for students to get help with their courses and those disciplines and that made for a more diverse population and I think in healthcare I mean you recognize that the population you're serving is very diverse so the people doing it have to be diverse to fit better with the population you're serving How has technology impacted the way that you've talked over time I think probably resources were readily available to students because I was thinking one of the later things was when they had well they weren't smartphones then but they had access readily to computerized information about drugs and pharmacology that became really important because you can't carry in your head the information about all the medications that people receive so you have to have reliable access to that kind of thing and quickly in a very efficient kind of way so the technology used in healthcare really impacted students in a clinical setting I think in the classroom it did too in that you could do video demonstrations of what you were trying to teach and you can slow it down and go through it step by step and then you can have students demonstrate it you can use videos for for role playing for that kind of thing and go back over it and say okay see the interaction and what you did and what you said that sort of thing so that impacted what else but I don't think you could ever replace face to face hands on interaction that students have with patients that's the real pieces are in the human interaction but it's great to learn all about it in different formats as well as doing it yourself some students just have to do it themselves to learn they can't learn from videos did you ever see technology as like a distraction in the classroom for students see what? I'm sorry was technology ever like a distraction to students in the classroom I remember cell phones we used to have to tell students they had to leave their cell phones in the conference room when they went to take care of patients because they couldn't be answering their phones but that's probably the only distraction I think I don't think that it was really it was mostly helpful so you didn't see much of a disconnect? no, not during I've been retired for almost 10 years and I think things have changed a lot since then so no, I really didn't see that you'd have to talk to somebody that's teaching right now to see that I think are you good? I'm not used to talking this much so do you have any thoughts on the unionization of faculty? the what? union, the unionization of the AAP well I was really involved in that for years here because this was a strong a strong base for the AAP in the 70s maybe in the 80s and 90s that sort of thing I know there were advantages to that and at that time I'm trying to think of what the issues were I'm sure there were issues of workload and compensation and benefits and all that kind of thing which is what usually is the focus of any kind of organization of people that are doing the work I thought we did a lot of good and held to the focus of teaching students that was what we were really about was high quality education there was a lot of competition for dollars and so making sure your money is going for that purpose that was always an issue and yet on the other hand you couldn't expect people to be working and the workload issues were great because people kept track of how many hours do you really spend you know you solely spend so many hours in the classroom but there's a whole lot more to teaching than just being in the classroom that was a big issue you know we always worked on I thought it was a strength definitely a strength it also helped dialogue when there's conflict if people feel confident in their position like I think tenured faculty feel they can take opposite positions without risking their own future and so that kind of disagreement is really important for the life of any institution I think you know it makes for a better place for people to have different points of view and diverse points of view and have a lot of respect and expression for those points of view so that you can come up with something that's better and I think that AEP supported that kind of thing very much but that was a long time ago and we had thought about it for ten years or more than that really so how do you think the whole union would have been shaped if more people were able to voice their opinions their perspective without risking their job or something like that I really don't know how to answer that I hadn't thought about that at all because I always felt that we did have the opportunity to express different opinions and try to come just on resolution a good fit for your goals because you've got to keep in mind what is your desired outcome what is it you're really trying to get or have accomplished you've got to incorporate lots of different perspectives in order to do that I don't really know how to answer that so did you participate in any of the strikes oh yes everyone of them yes I participated in lots of ways making signs, carrying signs distributing donuts coffee refills that sort of thing yeah figuring out ways that we were going to provide our students with good nursing education at the same time as having a strike was a real challenge because their lives were going on and school was going to end and the quarter was going to be over and they needed credit for courses and they needed the opportunity to learn the things they had to learn in the meantime while you were carrying on a strike at the university that was always a challenge that was hard to do I remember having classes in my basement yeah did you face any huge oppositions to the union were they really not here no, not here and I think it's because this was a very collegial environment there wasn't a lot of conflict there wasn't much conflict at all between the administration and the faculty it was a very together place so we really didn't why do you think people there would be people against the union well I guess it tends to dilute the power in an organization and spread it among everybody rather than just at the head so if you're trying to keep control of everything what a union and I think it's probably well I don't know how it affects outcomes really except that if you have a lot of people that are working together on the same project and they have the same goals you know if you can keep them all together and yet there are people so their needs have to be met I mean they in order to function at their best they have to have their needs met that's the art the people with the projects and the activities and that sort of thing so I don't know I think probably it's got to do with power unions tend to dilute the power of the organization and spread it around to the people that belong to it so so did you face any challenges with like the transition of UC from a municipal to a state school you know I remember when that happened I think it was 1970 was it around that time but no I don't remember that and I think I wasn't you know I was just a beginning instructor then and I wasn't paying that much close attention to what was going on at that level you know I thought it was absolutely terrific that Cincinnati had supported a college for so long way ahead of lots of other cities in the country and I think New York University and the University of Cincinnati there were very few city colleges you know that actually and I think that's a great part of its history it means that there's always been a cadre of people that valued higher education you know in this area and that's strength of the city strength of the community I said I cried all the way I told you from Columbus to here but after I lived here for a while I thought oh what a blessing that was there was marvelous things in the city that I hadn't encountered in Columbus but then it was just a small town not a great big city like this now did any of the faculty that you worked with feel as though the autonomy of the I guess like the curriculum was like compromised because they had to switch to from a city to a city? I don't think so not that I remember I mean we were working very hard to make sure that courses that we were offering for an associate degree were accepted in Clifton for baccalaureate programs and there was a lot of back and forth to do that but I don't think it was an issue in terms of conflict it was just that you needed to do a lot of work to make it fit and in terms of becoming a state school now I don't remember that at all that was pretty a lot of enthusiasm for that one thing I think it meant access to more money there were more things you could do that was probably the driving force did you ever feel like UC's priorities have shifted? I never really felt that way you know I didn't well during the time that I was here but like I said I've been retired for 10 years almost so how have you seen UC connect with Cincinnati or like the community around it? I think some of the leadership at the university has really been much more aware of I guess maybe of the foundations that are actually within the city and the community and be very involved in things in the city and I think that's wonderful from my perspective because in healthcare like I said we had all these contracts with all these healthcare agencies around the city so in a sense we were already there in a very intimate kind of thing and that we were working with all these different healthcare agencies so when the university sees that south as a major player in the well-being of the whole not just the city but the whole all the counties and northern Kentucky that's good for the university and it's good for the environment you know it's good for all the people that live in this area I think the more involved we are the better So in what ways has UC became more like involved in the community? I'm sure there are major projects going on in Clifton that hook up people and disciplines with in the community you know years ago I was trying to remember when I think it was before maybe anyway there was a big layoff in an industry and Mike and Dawn would know about this better than I do and Harriet Flory she was here then in the 60s I'm sorry in the 80s and people needed a lot of retraining because they were losing jobs and I think it was early months and I know Harriet Flory were involved in designing this project called the Work and Learning Council where we could offer courses that would on site at some plants and I hesitate to say which I thought it was forward and maybe GE courses that would help people gain new skills so that when they were laid off from these jobs they had some opportunities and some possibilities for other employment and that was a huge service and it was also valuable because in a sense it connected the college here with more of what's going on in the real world and what are we doing that would help people that need more education and more skill in a particular area so that was when did I say in the 80s I think sometime in the 80s I wasn't directly involved in that but I certainly knew a lot about it I was on the council that made up some of the criteria that we needed to use and the courses we needed to offer that sort of thing but I never directly did any teaching in it or any kind of involvement that way yeah so some people have this perception that um oh you take it oh I just yeah you're good so some people have this perception that main campus is automatically than like blue ash or like a community college what are your thoughts towards that I guess I didn't know people had that perception um well I think that probably what's best is what needs a student's needs um you know based on what their work life their other responsibilities their goals for themselves what kind of of education they're going for and what disciplines and that sort of thing um I I guess I see them really as very prosperous partnerships I don't think it's um necessarily a competition at all um I think it's wonderful I remember when you know our students could go from an associate degree and we quickly get a bachelor's degree um that's a wonderful thing but and at the same time they could have a job and be able to support themselves and pay for more education um and that's certainly an advantage that bridges the two uh the college and the university here is that what you were thinking about what you meant um kind of like uh I don't know I think people proceed there's more research and that kind of focus in Clifton and I think that's true you know that's um this is more of a hands on environment you know of an immediate teaching high quality teaching um to undergraduate students you know but there are probably about 5000 of them here so you know you're meeting a need um and it's pretty important and people have to start someplace you know those good places to start it gives you options yes a lot of options and it accommodates a lot your life so that you've got time to have a job, have a family have responsibilities so be educated improve your life improve the quality of what you're doing yeah so where do you see the future of UC going hmm well I imagine it will continue to be very involved in the life of the community I mean the community at large um you know and I think in healthcare and medical research it's definitely leading one of the leading research places that attracts people from not just the city but you know from people from all over the world um to come here and and study and live here can contribute to the quality of what we've got I think it will continue to do that you know but we never want to lose sight of the importance of educating that basic undergraduate student to start with you know because that's where it has to start I think it impacts too I hope the quality of education um in preschool um one of my children actually went to a preschool here that one of the faculty and I didn't know her well I can't even remember her name one of the faculty started where they were where the Montessori school um in Blue Edge somewhere this was more than 50 years ago I'm going to remember exactly the details but um and it was one of the few Montessori programs around um and the faculty member here was owned it and started it um so you know that's a lot different now no so is there anything else that you want to tell us that we haven't talked about um well I don't think so um no I still have a great regard for this change now but you see Blue Ash I keep thinking of it as Raymond Welter's college because that's what it was almost all the time that I was here in fact it was all the time I was here it was definitely a strength of the community you know I tried to remember some dates before we before I came but um no were there any like important events that happened are you seeing I think the things that I told you about were things that I mean there were funny things that happened and you know things that um Blue Ash Incorporate a lot of attention I think to how this college was going and at some point there was a planning commission or planning committee and the college had I was on that representative you know that went from the college to the community because I think that Ernie Munce recognized the importance of developing closer ties to Blue Ash to the city you know and they were very welcoming you know to that idea and that was a that was a good thing to the college in terms of growing and using resources and and that sort of thing don't think I have anything else you know it was a lot of talent here Ernie Munce was very good about identifying people that have a lot of talent and pulling them together in his administration and that and then letting them do their thing really well and supporting that so what were your proudest moments I know in 2006 you received a distinguished teaching award tell me about that oh that's right well you know it I was a pretty good teacher yes I was but I had really good students who were motivated and they worked really hard and that makes for you know the opportunity to be a good teacher you're trying to do better because your students need for you to be as good as you can and you know and there was I had a group of people around me colleagues that were quite supportive and quite encouraging to be good teachers all of us so I think it was really the environment that promoted my developing my ability to do it I was grateful to my colleagues and to my students because you learn from your students you learn so much from your students I said I talked till I was 68 years old and I retired because I liked it so much you know it was very satisfying work do you have any other memorable moments that you see although there were lots of memorable lots of them you know and you have your students do things with patients that are so kind and so thoughtful and so helpful well those are memorable moments because they've learned you know they've learned compassion to use their knowledge to really help people those are things that give you a lot of satisfaction great so we've just got right through the questions okay thank you so much you're welcome I'm glad to do it I'm glad you're doing it because I think it's really important you know for the good things about this college to be known