 What's going on? What's going gender in the chat room? Tell them goodbye. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back to another episode of your favorite late night show. I don't know what I'm going to call it. Something with Kevin Samuels. And tonight, guys, tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we are tackling a big topic, a major topic, something that I planned on doing a while ago. But I decided to just lay back in the cut and let it kind of develop. So moderators, be on guard in the chat room. People are going to be in here in their feelings. Any pejoratives, any gay slurs, anything like that. Time them out. Once I see them timed out, I'll decide whether or not they need to be blocked. Don't come in here tripping. Don't come in here tripping. You see the title of the show. You're gay. You're gay. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're gay. Gay, gay, gay, gay. You're gay. You're gay. You're gay. You're gay. You're a homosexual. You're download. You like girl. You like boys. You wear a man purse. You got a fur. Look at the lights. Look at the suit. Look at all this. Look at his mannerisms. Look at this. Look at that. Why are so many? Why some black men so preoccupied, fixated on gayness? I mean, presumptively, that these are heterosexual men themselves. But it seems to me, my personal opinion that far too many guys, black men have a a issue with gay. And let me explain what I mean. So tonight we have Dr. Tia Sanjohn. So I'm going to bring my guest on in just a minute. But what I have noticed in my 51 years on this planet is when a black man is productive, competitive and successful, and other black men cannot beat him, whether it's on an academic sport, whatever. Instead of just the loser, the one that was beaten, deciding to go back to the drawing board and get better. No, you got to try to tear him down. And one of the, and this is not just so much a black man. It's with every group. But in the black community, I will say that I've noticed personally, and maybe I could be off, but I've noticed that one thing trumps him all. Black men are supposed to almost be like the winner soldier in Captain America or some Manchurian candidate to where soon as somebody questions his manhood, calls him gay, he's supposed to jump out of the window, become violent or commit suicide and self destruct, self sabotage. You've seen it in countless comedy skits. You've seen it. And, you know, Dave Chappelle, even back in Richard Price show, where playing the president of the United States. And one thing you want to do is get a black man to respond in his emotions and he'll self destruct. Well, sorry to inform you that the new reboots that a black man aren't having it. Bottom line is this lesser males try to get dethroned, higher ranking males within souls. That's what it comes down to. It's about competition. And in debate, the first person that throws an ad hominem or pejorative loses. But tonight we're going to discuss it in a greater context. And I'm going to bring on Dr. Tia, son, John. So I'm going to let him go of his credentials and everything else because I think he's uniquely qualified to speak on this subject. You know, I can give my opinions, but I want to hear somebody drop some facts about this stuff. Guys, be kind to my guest. And like I said, Dr. Johnson, he teaches black masculine studies, and I'm going to bring him on right now. Let me get this right here. Not any further ado. Dr. Johnson, here we go. There you go. Let me go ahead and unmute you. Ask you to unmute yourself. And you are the go ahead and unmute yourself, my brother, and the floor is yours. How you doing, man? I'm good. I am. Wow. Beautiful. And let me first say, man, congratulations to you, brother. Your success is well earned. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Um, Dr. Johnson and I have been going back and forth for a month every year. We were supposed to do this broadcast a couple other times, but, you know, I didn't know scheduling things and timing. But right now, let's let's be honest, we if you haven't been living under a rock, you've seen some of things that people have been saying about me saying about me. It's not even today. And it's I am an avatar in this sense. Go back to President Barack Obama, whether no matter what you like, if you like him or dislike him, it's irrelevant. The man had no real dirt on him. So what came out? He had to be secretly gay and people spent exhaustive hours, exhausted time trying to prove that Michelle Obama was really a man or a beard. And here's the thing I want to understand from a from the black men to black men, what is at the root of this throwing your gay, your gay or or trying to call someone gay insulting them or secretly looking for them to be secretly on the down low. This is the bigger one, I think, because it's like the secret fear that that's been promoted by a lot in the media that successful black men are either secretly abusive, serial cheaters or really down low gay. And then for black men, it's an insult as a term to use to delegitimize and weaponize to bring you down several pegs to stop your momentum to kill or to create a nursery drag or you and really ultimately used to break that mirror that success holds up to many people and warm up that shadow that tall or things that are going up cast. So you go ahead and tell people what it is you think you need to what they need to do about it. The floor is yours. Dr. Johnson. Okay, well, as you said, I'm associate professor of Africana Studies at Fresno State teach black male studies. I'm one of the scholars engaged in advancing that. And so we look at the lives of black men. And in response to your questions, I got to start really at an earlier stage because this is old. This is not new, but it's it's it's taken different forms and it comes out of a very particular context. The first thing I would tell people is really need to pick up Dr. Tommy J. Curry's book, the man not because that is the beginning point of this, the man not. And what that refers to is a particular period of time from the 17th century to the 19th century, where black men and women for that matter were not considered men and women. We were male and female, but we were not men and women, right? We didn't have gender in a respectable humane way. We just had sex in terms of like animals and we were greeted like cat. Right? So that's part of the dynamic. One thing he talks about in that book is the family, the idea of the family as it pertain to the plantation. And in that family model, black men were considered children. We were considered children. So white men and women were the mother and father and black men were the children alongside black women, but they especially focused on our weakness and our dullness and our childlike capability as it pertain to black men. Time you get to the 20th century, that begins to morph and it becomes violent. It becomes black men are a physical threat and a sexual threat. So we are violent, we are criminalistic and we are sexually threatening all together. So these stereotypes come into play, right? Now, in response to that, black America used two institutions, the church and education. We responded to these stereotypes with a with a very upright performance of our humanity, right? In response to this because keep in mind, you know, any behavior that was seen as questionable or strange or stereotypical could result in a lynching, it could result in death. So we had we had a very intense response to these stereotypes, because they could often mean the loss of life. Now, by the time we get to this whole issue of masculinity, right? I told I've talked a little bit about where it's come from, how it's viewed by other groups, how it's impressed impressed upon us. And we responded by, you know, trying to challenge the society because we weren't publicly received as men. This is why you still see those old pictures of the 1960s where men were holding signs saying we are men, black men were holding signs. But despite so that's the backdrop for all it is, right? That's kind of the backdrop for it. What it results in within the black community is a whole different conversation. Among the women, it results in what we call in, you know, the black gynaocracy, right? They among themselves, they create, you know, this kind of matriarchal kind of framework. Among the men, one of the offshoots of that one of the responses to that legacy of not being received as men, not being regarded as human is this impulse, right, to press each other in this, what I call a kind of hyper masculine ribbing or an intra, it's kind of an intra gender competition, right? One might also refer to it as a kind of make make competitive hating, right? But we do this with each other coming out of this framework of not being considered men in the larger context. So we become hyper competitive. And as you pointed out earlier, we can tend to tear down others, right? In regard to this question of whether or not we're practicing a masculinity that meets the standard meets the ideal of a standard that black men have never been allowed to be seen as meeting, right? But many in many instances, we can take it too far. Now, if you look at the work of sociologist Robert Staples back in the 70s, he further complicates that by talking about class. Because one of the things he talks about is the is the kind of difference in middle class and working class black men and how they're received. And even how they choose mates, right? He talks about the way working class black men have to deal with the women in their immediate environment, middle class black men who are more sought after choose and they choose differently because women are approaching them for security. So one of the ways they respond in turn is to demand a certain type of cooperation. Now, why do I say all of that? Because middle class masculine masculinity from a different from a working class standpoint is viewed as less masculine, right? And this is what Staples was kind of referring to as well. So you have this kind of ribbing that goes back and forth that's influenced somewhat by class, but the ultimate backdrop is that black men were not allowed to be seen as men. So our response is this hyper competitive ribbing. And this is where a lot of this comes from. So you take a brother like yourself, you're educated, you're suited, you're successful. And let's not forget Kevin, you are also blasting off on YouTube in a way that we haven't seen for a lot of people. You know what I mean? Now for you, you've been grinding every day, you know how much work went into this. But for a lot of people, one minute they saw you at a certain level. Another minute you kicking the door through 100,000 subs. What comes with that jealousy, you know, ribbing this idea that if I if I get one over on Kevin, I might be able to get the attention I can take the shine off him. So how many videos have come out slandering you making up suggestions about, you know, this or that, all to get attention off your name. Right. So that's that's where a lot of this comes from. That's the context for it. Well, you know, and I'm sorry, guys, if you're in a little doubling up, there's a little audio issue. Bear with us. So one of the things that I heard is it's on me. It's on my side. It's there's an audio I need my speakers back in so they'll get we'll deal with it. One of the things that stood out to me most, Dr. Johnson is middle class masculinity is viewed as lesser. This started happening in earnest when I mentioned high value man. High value man in one phrase has stolen the show in black YouTube. It's everywhere now. And I said it the other day. It wasn't my intent. It was it's been talked about a lot. But because I'm talking my high value man, and I'm talking to women and the format in which I'm talking to women. But I think there's something to be said that that middle class masculinity is viewed as lesser, even though, you know, you and then on the next thing is it brought into thing into class and high value man brought brings in class socioeconomic status. All these things that we really really understand to be real world and what it's also done is I say high value man is if we all went to school, we know what pop quizzes are and we know what progress reports are. High value man is basically asked a lot of men show me your progress report. I was always a good student. I never had a problem taking my progress report home. And in fact, I loved it. I love showing off my progress report in my report card, but a lot of men are ashamed of their progress report and hiding their grades. And now it's it's being talked about. So it's like, well, I don't want to talk about this. Let's change the definition. Let's do this. Let's do that. And when you even when I defined it in a way that had nothing to do with women, this and that now it's like, well, let's just let's just tear him down. Let's just say something's wrong with him. So like you said, this has been with us for a long time. But why do you think it continues to persist today, though? Well, I think we entered a new era by the time you get to the 1980s, right? By the time you get to the 1980s and I gotta say, the video you did with Minister Jack, well, you did a couple, but the videos you did on the 1990s were jaw dropping and on point on point. They are incredibly important. I think that people need to listen to those again to really grasp the change that takes place in the 1980s that creates a whole new mindset in the 1990s and the 2000s, right? What we're looking at is the dramatic increase in women's hypergamy. It goes to a whole different level in the 1980s where you have these women being told that they need to go into their careers and relationships can wait. They can have it all when they feel like it. And, you know, because a celebrity had a baby at 50, everybody can, right? These all of these ideas become extremely popular from the 80s to the 2000s, right? With that hypergamy, you already know men, we don't really practice that kind of, we don't practice hypergamy. We practice isotomy and hypotomy, meaning we tend to get with women at our level, sometimes get with women less than our level, because we're not really concerned with her income. We don't define our attraction by her means, her material means. That's somewhat fixated on in terms of what women tend to do. So we're competing with each other for, you know, women's attention, but we don't really practice hypergamy in that way. So with that kind of competition going back and forth, and everybody kind of, you know, trying to get the attention of these, you know, the loveliest women, so on and so on, the youngest, most fertile, most beautiful, you kind of get a lot of this tension and a lot of this back and forth over that. And the other thing to consider as well is when we define manhood, especially in regard to protecting and providing, we got to look at the ways in which, again, class shapes this. So it's different. So you take protection, for example. Most people, if they think about protection, that might be, if I take my lady out to a club and somebody insults her, I'm going to handle him, right? But when you deal with it on middle class grounds, it's a little different. You associate in environments where physical threat is not really a regular factor. You know what I mean? If you live in an area where you have to have guns to protect yourself versus moving your family, because you can afford to, to an area where, you know, being robbed is not really an, you know, something that happens very often, that's the way middle class men protect. So if you have a standard of masculinity that's rooted and more of a blue collar or street level kind of definition, you may not appreciate the way middle class, or as you put it, upper middle class or high value men protect along different lines. Those differences in interpretation shape how the very idea of being how high value is seen. And we also have to keep in mind as well, by your definition of high value, we're really talking about one to three percent of black men, or men in general, really. And that's intimidating for a lot of folks who know that by virtue of the way capitalism works, that's not likely for the majority of people. It just isn't. Well, and that's why I, and high value is static. And that's why I've talked about high value. Really, I just, I took an overlay. I said, look at any time, any period, any culture, any region, and what did the men who separated themselves from other men tend to have in common? Some things that had nothing to do with morals, principles, or religion, or sexuality. And this kind of laid that over. And also, I was defining, I think it also started to kind of define what women today are looking at as hypergamy, because in my show, often hear lots of women saying they want men of a certain caliber, a certain income, a certain lifestyle. You know, that wasn't me. That was the lady saying they wanted that. And what I find is that a lot of men know or have known that this is true. But the reality is hard for a lot of guys to grasp, because, like you said, because it's a minority. We're familiar with the, what's going on here? The Pareto principle, the 80-20 rule, right? Now it's got even more extreme. So here's what we're at. I think this high value... Can I quickly say something? Go ahead. You often, you often put the qualification out there that high value is not the only way to be worthy of a partner, to be considered valuable in some way, shape, or form. That's not the only way. That's just the most elite way. But that doesn't mean that nobody else is worthy of anything. And you've made it a point several times, because I'm an avid listener. I post your videos. I support what you're doing. And you've been very clear. High value is what most people look for, but that has nothing to do with whether or not there are not other men that are worthy of marriage. And really one of the things I think your work exposes is that the majority of the women that are pushing for high value either are not going to ever get that or don't qualify. Right. Because and you make this point a lot when you talk about being average and why people are so offended about being average, but the reality is the majority are average. It's the point. It's the point. And see, that's where, you know, there's so many ways to take this. But as we're staying in this whole gay thing, it's like, all right, well, anything... I heard education is gay. Anything that ain't street or hood is gay, you know. And I don't know many people who know a lot of white collar guys, but, you know, personally myself, I have three black belts. I used to fight full contact martial arts up until 40 years old. And I was a bouncer for fun, but people still looking to say, well, you carry a man person this and that. And here's the thing. It doesn't matter what you say. It doesn't matter what you do. You can be seen with a woman. It's like, one minute you're stealing dudes' wives and the next minute you're gay. I'm like, which one is it? And what it seems to me is though, because you are doing what is viewed as successful, we have to say that's not really anything. Or I don't get it. I don't get why so many guys are... And here's the thing. I could understand it more in junior high and high school where men had less and we were really struggling with us. I'm talking about men who were in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s. Right. What's going on there? Well, and you know what? You actually did explain it again when you talked to JAP and you were talking about the impact of hip-hop in the mid 90s, right? The rise of gangster rap and so on and so forth, which for the most part was a record company creation. You know what I mean? Because prior to a certain year, prior to like 1990 to 92, you could hear hip-hop about... I mean, they were rapping about vegetarianism. They were rapping about waiting till marriage to have sex. I mean, they were rapping about everything. You could find everything. You had everything from philosophy, philosophers to pimps. You had everything. After a certain early part of the 1990s when the record industry got involved, it shifted. And for the majority of the world, and I don't mean just America, the majority of the world, they were reintroduced to black men through mid-1990s hip-hop as gangsters, thugs, and pimps. And that became the masculinity that people sought after, right? This quick money. And this was in the... You had it in the 80s, but it really took off in the 90s. This idea of being a drug dealer. This idea of being a thug. You got quick cash. You got a lot of disposable income. And so those values kind of became immersed in how black men were seen. And the new standard of masculinity became this very, you know, this very corporate sanctioned idea of manhood. So just like you said, you got a black belt and multiple different types of martial arts and you're educated, but somehow you're associated with being less than a man. A lot of that is class-related, but again, what propels all of this onto a global stage is hip-hop culture and how it's seen. Now, I mean, I'm saying, I say global because I've even gone to Korea, and I've had people in Korea ask me what street I'm banging on. Because this is the idea of black manhood that's been propagated around the world. So what you're reintroducing in this last year or so is an idea of black masculinity that strays from that definition. And a lot of people are unfamiliar with it because we haven't thought about it for, you know, the under 20 years. Dr. Johnson, look at, but if you mentioned hip-hop culture, especially on the West Coast, it was very influenced by G-Font or George Clinton in the 70s and pimps. Pimps, let's see, pimps wear suits. Sure. Pimps wear fragrance. They get, they wear nice shoes. They get the shoes shine. They, they all, all the pimps, I knew carried some sort of bag. They pimps getting their hair done, manicured nails done. And all this other stuff. But you know what, we accept pimps improving their style as masculine because they're around women. But when black men do it, it's gay. So it's not as though we don't understand this. I think it's, I think there's several things. One, and there is this arrested development of so many black men. We have not continued to keep pace with where you ask a lot of brothers of where, where do you want to be versus where you think you should be? And this hip-hop thing is something also. But now we've moved forward. And then this high value thing is really a throwback to what you just said. You know, there was always a delineation. And the thing is, the pimps and the players never had a problem with the street dudes and never had a problem with the middle-class squares. But now it's like, it's a bunch of infighting to see who's going to be on top. And honestly, the street has been winning for the last 30 years. But now, now I'm sensing a shift because the conversation between black men and black women, especially on YouTube, is progressing. I even have people from the pro-black sector who are talking about me. Don't watch my content, but they're speaking about what they think they hear. One of the things I think is shocking with black folks is how ignorant of people we talk about, but we don't mind destroying them. Let me say something. As an image consultant, I am always concerned with people who don't value their own image because a person that doesn't value their own image has no damn problem destroying yours. And that's what I see. A lot of guys who don't value their own image and then they'll play with yours. That's why they bring out these terms, you're gay, you're this, you're that, because they think it's a game. Don't realize that there's a business and there's a family and there's all kinds of things going on behind it. And me in particular, I don't talk to mess with anybody or bother anybody and let people do what they do, but it seems as though this thing is deep for men. And if you don't respond, in the real world, you're supposed to respond to it. But on social media, if you respond to it, it continues to go. What would you say to black men who are in college or out of college? They see that they want to be better than they were better than their surroundings who are on this self-improvement personal development journey and they're going to leave their peers, their colleagues, their friends, their homeboys behind and they're going to catch all kinds of slings and arrows. And these things are going to get thrown at them. What would you tell them? Keep pushing. I mean, anybody I know that's become successful in anything at some point had to leave certain people behind that weren't constructive and didn't see what they were doing. If anything could be, end up being hostile to it. I'd say there's a value to loyalty. There's a value to people who love you and support you no matter what you're doing. But you'll be able to see the difference between those different groups pretty readily. And you got to keep pushing toward what you're looking to push for. But this make competitive hating thing is only gotten hotter because the level of hypergamy with women has increased dramatically. And so no matter what you're doing, you're going to be measured against it. And unfortunately, even in an area where you're talking about educated black men, it's still there in different ways to shape conforms. I was speaking to a financial advisor about a year ago. And she said something very interesting to me. She said, my friends would never date you. And I said, okay, what did that come from? I wouldn't even ask her about that. But she said, the reason is what her point was is you're in education. You're doing really well and you're in education, but the only three lanes that her friends have been socialized to look for were doctor, lawyer, or entertainer. And entertainer included athlete, right? So singer, comedian, athlete. She said, if you weren't doctor, lawyer, entertainer, you're not on their radar. So there's still this hypergamous competitive space even amongst the educated, so to speak. And so you're going to have to, you're going to, the more successful you find yourself becoming, you're going to have to deal with it. You're going to have to deal with the hating from other men, the competitiveness, if anything, and I say this to you as well, the more of that ribbing that you get, now you know you're actually becoming more and more successful, brother. So and see, that leads right into my next question. I've had to deal with this shit all my life. I mean, and it doesn't bother me for somebody to say, he's gay, he's this, he's that. Look, all you got to do is walk around with me for a day and know that's not true. But there's, there's some guy, what I want to talk about now is black male ego fragility. That many brothers that this stuff is throwing it, respond with violence, anger, and actually give their people who are throwing the diss at them exactly what they want. They destroy themselves. And that's what I'm really trying to understand. Why are black men so quick to just, no, I'm not. No, we're not. And then they feel like they got to get everybody on the same page instead of just saying, all right, whatever. And moving on. Why are so many brothers so quick to fight or getting a conflict to try to write this wrong lie or whatever? Well, I'll be the first to say I'd like to see brothers support each other a lot more. I talk about this a lot on my show. I would like to see that happen to the extent that it doesn't. It comes out of a very distinct context. It comes out of a context of one, this legacy of our great grandfathers, grandfathers, fathers and ourselves not being accepted as men in a humane way. And even now, like even now, if you look at popular culture and you ask people to think about the best examples of manhood, how many of them think of an educated, intelligent black? Or even even just a black man period, right? How many of them actually think about that? So the fact that we are not a part of that discussion in any large way is kind of what's behind a lot of this hyper-competitiveness between us. And it feeds a lot of that. And again, when you add in women's hypergamy, you've got even more competition because everybody wants the top woman. So a lot of that is exacerbated by the pain of exclusion and the increased hypergamy in the last 30 years because we've got to recognize this hypergamy never kicked in like this. Right. You know what I mean? Our grandmothers, you and I are the same generation. You're a few years older, but we're the same generation. My grandmother, when I look at my grandmother's generation, they weren't fighting for the top six figure man. No. It was a whole different environment. A whole different. Someone that you can deal with and you can live with and had similar values, but there wasn't this idea that if he didn't make X amount of money, he wasn't worth your attention. That didn't really exist in that kind of way. I'm not saying it didn't exist at all, but it was nowhere near as intense as it became post 1980s. You know what I mean? So that's changed a lot of this. And so a lot of even what you're dealing with is because you are getting so much attention across the board. You're getting attention from other racial groups. You're getting attention from men, but you're most particularly getting attention from women. And that's something that we've not really seen in the manuscript like that. We've not seen a man come in and garner this much attention. So you're going to deal with, you know, you're going to have a lot of make up for better than 80. And here's the thing. I'm built for it. I mean, like I said, I don't have people call me gay or whatever since I was a teenager. And you learn how to deal with this kind of stuff. Look, you cannot be a black man in corporate American sales who's put together a polish and not deal with this. And then I had the nerve to go into image, which is fashion and style, which the profession is loaded with homosexuals. My profession, on the men side, to meet a heterosexual black male image consultant is a rarity. I actually spoke to a client last week and she works on a different revenue track. And she was talking about the difficulties in meeting quality black men in her environment who are straight. So I understand the implication. I understand when people see me taught in this neat gay guys are going to try it. They'll ask him, but gay guys are more respectful about this shit than a lot of heterosexual guys to get about it because I'm not competing with them. But here's what I want to get to next. I have heard too many black men say they don't want to become greater or more because they're afraid of the heat they're going to get. You know, I don't want to be smart because, you know, I'll get picked on in school. There's been a lot of success shaming and I want to understand how we tell young black men or black men who want to step into the higher value or however you want to rank it just become better than themselves. I think they're going to have to learn how to deal with the issues that arise from their success and the light that it cast because that light that it cast creates a shadow and it's a cold place for some guys in their shadow and it actually brings up a lot of their insecurities and it's not their fault for doing it but it comes out of it. Last point, I was talking about Iron Man 3 and the protagonist the antagonist in Iron Man 3 was Aldrich Killian and Tony Stark basically in 1999 told him meet me up on the on the roof. I would like to discuss your idea and he went on and got with the chick that night but Aldrich was upset that he got dissed by the higher Tony Stark and used it to fuel him and to become a great man but do you think he enjoyed his journey? So how do we tell black men become successful? Do these things that are going to make you productive, competitive, owning your own economy, building in your own place if they know they're going to have to deal with some of this shit? Well I think the example you gave with Iron Man 3 is appropriate. If you look at Killian he still had to deal with disrespect at his lowest point and that says something if you're going to have to deal with disrespect whether you're successful or unsuccessful you might as well push for success because we live in an era right now if you look at black families man 40% of black families are living off a less than $21,000 a year that's multiple incomes by household before taxes 40% 60% are living off of less than $38,000 a year multiple incomes before taxes by household. So the percentage of individuals who are making over six figures is relatively, is astronomically small. Why would you compound that with not even trying if you're going to have to deal with disrespect either way? You might as well put yourself in a position where you can pass something on to the next generation. Thank you. I mean I was talking to a friend earlier today I was like problems are a lot easier to deal with when you got money. It's a lot easier to deal with when you got money. In the group that I just invited you into I'm glad you're there. I started that group about going on two and a half almost three months ago it's just a throwaway concept. Four couples have met four black couples have met in there one, two, three, four. And I'm going to say that there are going to be marriages that come from that group and that's black family. Yeah. And so I think it's funny that I get so much pushback for just saying if you want to be better do this. I don't, you know, I big up my blue collar brothers. I never say that you got to be this. This is the only way. I don't think anyone can say I don't hold women's feet to the fire. I was on World Start Hip Hop for doing the same shit. So I'm like what do we want as black men? And I will say this for the same Marvel movie Vision gave me a great quote last night. He said string invites challenge. Yeah. Challenge insights conflict, but conflict breeds catastrophe. And I have a policy. I don't beef. I just don't be and I've and it was a hell of a lot easier to say it prior, but I still don't be because it's the conflict that breeds the catastrophe that if we start beefing back and forth, that's just more black men talking about black men. And we just undo any good things that we've done. What do you want to tell brothers that they need to do as far as avoiding conflict and becoming more competitive and more productive individually and together as we try to succeed? I think the biggest point I would want to communicate is there's a difference between doing nothing and making a decision to not engage in a certain level of conflict. You've heard the phrase the best revenge is living well. Yes. Plies to conflict. Like, you know, on the other day, you said you said something very powerful about the way in which YouTube has changed its policies and how people, you know, what they say in your chat and what you're responsible for as a content creator and, you know, and really where beefing kind of can leave you in terms of losing out on money, expanding your business, all of these different kinds of things. So for someone to respond to conflict as opposed to, you know, going back and forth but responding with living well, making decisions that work in your best interest to expand your brand and build yourself up and take care of those you love and yourself, of course. That to me is not a non-response to conflict. It's the best response to conflict. Right. Living well and that's what I see you doing. Well, that's why, you know, I think this is a good way to do it because people, you can't control what people say about you. You can't control anything other than how you respond to it. So, you know, in the real world, you're supposed to respond to this kind of stuff, get out in front of it. But online, it's better, in my opinion, to take it and make it a learning lesson for people who have good faith and good intention because the people who don't like you or got something to say, it really doesn't matter what you say. But they're more, but I'm not talking to them. I'm talking to the people who are watching. So that's why I want to have you on tonight because you are, your proper title is what, what does the course you teach? Oh, I'm Associate Professor of Africana Studies, but I teach Black male studies. Okay, so you don't get more credentialed than that. And I think it's important to have a brother who speaks about Black masculinity and I talk about this subject in a way that can push the dialogue. I realize the people who don't like me, here's the thing, you don't know me. And whatever avatar represent for you, I didn't do anything to you. But this is going to continue to go on and Black men, if you want to succeed, whether it's white collar, blue collar, entrepreneur, whatever, you're going to have to learn how to deal with things that may throw you off in a way that doesn't make you self-destruct. When you're teaching on the university, you deal with a lot, I'm assuming you deal with a lot of young men from fatherless homes. Do you have a lot of Black men enrolling in your class and who are struggling with their place in the world, their masculinity, their own identity? Talk to them. It's not as many as I'd like, but that's the group I look out for most. I was a part of that group. When I finished my doctorate, I purposely went back to a teaching-level university to look for people that were just like me. I teach in the California university system, which is where I went to school, and it's the largest university system in the country. But it's also the university system where 70% of Black males drop out their first year. I went looking for the Black males that I could pull out of that and hold on to and help. And one of the things we do is we talk regularly about things they need to do to navigate, the decisions they need to make long before the confrontation. Decisions about academics, the decisions about the field they want to work in, the decisions about relationships. I can't tell you how many of them I've seen end up out of school, sometimes in jail, over relationships. So I'm trying to help them navigate that terrain because a lot of them don't have any support. Well, and this whole thing about high value, as eye-opening as it is, it's a static concept. You either are or you are not. You can be in process, and that's where this thing is going next. I'm first-generation anything. You can make yourself the man you want to be. So the young man you're talking about as the people I want to start speaking to, how to increase your worth, value to where you do two things, have more opportunities and options. And that is more evergreen content. It's going to be something that resonates more with people and also gives folks hope because I understand that what a lot of women say they want when I hear women night after night say they want to stay at home and have three kids and not have to work. And I'm like, you realize what you're asking? But it's easier to hear that if you are on a path or in process yourself. Last thing, is there anything that I didn't cover or points you would like to mention something that's important regarding this whole you're gay, challenging your masculinity? Anything on this subject? The floor is yours? Well, I think what I would just say is something you're going to do anyway, man. Just continue to walk strong, continue to grow, continue to expand. And it's going to be what it is. You're going to get that, but you're getting it because you're successful, you're getting it because you're making noise and you're getting a lot of attention. And I'm not telling you anything you don't know because you said you've been dealing with it since grade school. Just expect it and keep pushing. But I also wanted to say, real quickly, when you brought up my classes, there's two things I wanted to kind of throw out there. The hyperdemy level has gotten to unrealistic levels and I think you end up exposing that almost every week. You know what I mean? I have 17 to 21 year old students, right? And I do this activity in class where I ask the men, what is the expectation of how much you need to make in order to be worthy of the women that you're dating, the women that are sitting right next to you? I have yet to have one young man not say six figures. But here's the problem. They're 17 years old and they're both in college together and she's expecting him to make six figures right now to be worthy of dating. And so I'm trying to make sure that my men understand that as unrealistic as that might be, you still have to strive for what it is you're trying to do. But the hyperdemy has gotten off the chain. The second thing I wanted to alert you to, you and I talked a couple years ago about the white female students that I've had that take my class to learn about the black men that they're dating. And these are generally the black men who are high level. They're athletes, they're looking at the NBA, the NFL, they're looking at the MLB. But that has changed. I just wanted to give you a quick update. Okay. Now the majority of my students are Latinas. Just wanted to let you know. Yeah. And ladies, in short, black women, Latino white women and Latino women are going through a black masculinity studies to learn how black men flow and move because they're interested in black men. Doctor, I appreciate you coming on. More to be, I've just had some things sparking in my mind about how to maybe attack this. Maybe they don't enroll directly. But there is a way to reach men, especially young black men. Because I was born single parent household father at 13 years. Man, I ain't special. I just decided to do something. I just decided to do something. So thank you for joining me tonight. I'm going to go ahead and cut the break right now. I'm going to open the call lines. If you would like to stay, you're more than welcome to stay. If you want to grab a break or something. I'm going to talk to the audience for a minute and we're going to move forward. Dr. Tia San Johnson, everybody, his stuff is down in the comments section. Go subscribe to the brother's channel, support him. He's always over here in the mantle sphere and the spaces. And we have an incredible resource and Dr. Tia San Johnson. Thank you so much, my brother. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. All right. All right, go ahead. So people understand something. Look, I get it. I get it. You don't like. Some of you guys don't like the suit. Some of the guys, you don't know me. You've heard things, but understand something. It ain't about me. It ain't about me. It's about you becoming the best version of yourself for you. That's all this has ever been about. I want men to become the best version of themselves for themselves so they can get the kind of options and opportunities they want. Also, I want women to become the best version of themselves so they can be a great option for a man who's on the path to doing what he's doing. You don't have to do it my way. You don't have to go to college and pledge a fraternity and do this or do that. Whatever way you do it, do it. But understand something. Men, black men, the world does not owe me or you understanding. The mark is high. We were born. We were born. Yes, hypergamy is off the chart. All these things. But you know what? I would rather be alive now than about 70 years ago. Segregation, Jim Crow, or 100 years ago. There's never going to be a time that's going to be perfect. What are you willing to do about it? And unlike any other generation, you have an actual chance, choice to actually do something. That's what this increase your value. Increasing your value to yourself and others around you. I've said two things. You need to look at the group you hang out with. And you really need to understand your place, your worth and move it forward. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to open up the call lines. I need everybody to be respectful. All I ask is if you polite to me, I'll be polite to you. Anyone can call in. I got the guys calling in in particular. So here we go. We are back. We are back. We are back. The call line is now open. YouTube is having some technical difficulties right now. The studio is not responding. So we're building it while we fly it. All I ask is for people are calling in. Make sure that you are in a good space to have some good sound. You can call in and ask your questions. Where'd she go? She's done. That's her time. Her time is done. All I ask is, guys, be respectful. And we don't want the pejoratives out there. Don't use some of these words, these F words. Moderators, please keep copying the link in there. All right. Here we go. Put that over here. Don't go ahead and unmute Dr. Johnson. I may admit you. Ian, you're welcome to come on. Go ahead and unmute yourself, Ian. How are you? Good. What questions do you have for us? Or would you like to? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, yeah. I just want to comment on the topic. Yeah, that's just one of the main things to demonize black men and to really inhibit them from progressing any further outside of the black community. With that being said, with most black men not understanding and not being raised with a father, they don't know how to really stand their ground or really even understand how to actually have that mental and even emotional fortitude to stand on their own square, even if they're being trying to be the best version of themselves. How old are you? I'm 1224. Okay. Have you dealt with this? Yeah, not as much as most black men, but yeah, I had that comment. Where? At work school? Yeah, just school. Just hanging around with my friends, yeah. All right. So was it something you guys would throw at you often or I'm trying to get some context? Because usually, when I usually see it happen, it's usually when one guy is doing better in something than another, that's when it's an issue, not when they're just playing back and forth with one another. When did it happen? Well, it wasn't mostly specific. It wasn't as much as if a black person wanted to come out of the community, but it was mostly like when I tried to express a different perspective on certain manners. That's when all the, oh, are you gay or all those? Different manners? No, different perspectives on things, like stuff I didn't agree with, the black community would normally agree with. You weren't in Locke's, you had your own opinion about stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, all right. Tomorrow night, I'm gonna talk about, the issue we have with the, I call it the facts, but one of the big problems I see a lot of brothers get stuck and I've heard this critique as often as today is we don't allow people to be different and we don't allow change. If you're not listening to rap or hip hop, if you like classical, you're gay. If you don't like barbecue and then as you like sushi, you're gay. If you don't share this political event, are you selling out for the white man or you're gay? Is that the kind of stuff we're talking about? Yeah, those types of perspectives, yeah. So what did that, so are you still hanging out with those people or have you isolated yourself from them? Have you changed groups? How are you combating it? Oh yeah, I mean, that was a while back. I'm no longer hanging around those people anymore, but yeah, it was just mostly in school and my childhood. So who do you hang around with now? Oh yeah, I hang around with a lot of older ones to get their perspective on how the world works. Older ones, older ones, older men, women, well. Older, older, older, older, older men, older women, yeah. All right, well, what about guy, you're 24. What do you mean by older? How much older? Either 10, 20, 10, 20 years older than me, yeah. Good that you have older perspective, but this is where it's gonna be incumbent upon young men to actually double down to do the work. You're gonna also need to find guys in your own peer group, your own age group. Guys who are 10, 20 years older than you can give you some different advice or wisdom, but they're in a different period. That's where I find that guys tend to isolate themselves and then you start losing your social skills for your peer group. That's what I don't wanna see happen to guys. They feel isolated, they gotta be around other people, older people, people that make sense, but they're not your roughly your age. You're gonna have to learn how to deal with people around your age, that's what I'm saying. That's a challenge. Yeah, I do, it's just, it tends to be people that I do hang around or at least have a longer back and forth relationship tends to be just in that age group. Not to say that I just neglect people in my own age. No, it's just like, yeah. Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that because I don't do that, no. Because what I find is, because I don't wanna use the word bully, but this kind of stuff can tend to make guys isolate themselves. And that's gonna serve to your detriment if that happens. So, all right, do you have any questions for Dr. Johnson? Because he's still here too. He said, but Kevin that's hard, go ahead. What, how long, what was one of your major hurdles when dealing with those types of situations of when you wanted to break out of that black stereotype mold? What was your main, what was the main issue that you had to, that you overcame? Black stereotype mold, what do you mean? The mold, like the, when you wanted to educate yourself and be different from the normal, the black norm. Okay, okay. Yeah. Um, I mean, I think for me it was just a matter of, of, I mean, look, okay, so I looked at my grandfathers and they spent their whole lives doing jobs they hated to take care of family. And so I looked at it like it was incumbent upon me to at least be able to take that a step further and do something that I loved. And that way my son would get that model and push it further than that. So I looked at that as a motivation to, you know, kind of change up the situation. So, you know, I would finish degrees and my boys would still be in school and I would just keep pushing and pushing because I wanted to, I wanted to take advantage of what my, my, my fathers and grandfather, you know, what they did for me. You know, so that's kind of, you know, that's, that's, that's what motivated me. But you got to, you got to find your motivation. Whatever moves you, you know, I'm not going to hate on it. Whatever stirs you into action. And you don't have to tell anybody about it. You know, as long as it works for you, use it as fuel and keep pushing. Let me say, let me say something too. Young man, you're black, right? Yeah. Then I reject the fact of a black norm. I'm a black man and I grew up right around the era Dr. Johnson was talking about, I'm making this cool. I'm making this the black norm. Make your own, make you, make what you do normal. Black people are an excellent people. Do you, I mean, this whole thing about, you know, being cultured, learned it, da, da, da, da, da. It's not black. It's bullshit. Absolutely. So Justin Timberlake said he's bringing sexy back. Well, I'm bringing excellence back. God damn it. And if it's high value and show your work or snuggly tumps or fucking French toast, whatever it's called, as long as, you know, as I continue to move on up, as I'm going to still be saying things I'm saying now, for political platform reasons, I may not be able to say it's demonstrably black, but every time I've gotten to a place of power, I always put black people on. Anybody who knows me, when I was in corporate America, got moved up to manager, earned myself as manager, I hired a black team. You get to define what black is too. That's all I'm trying to say to you. You get to define that. Let me get on into the gallery view. Thanks, man. Go ahead, Glenn. Unmute yourself. How you doing, Mr. Kevin? I'm good. What do you got for us? I feel like a lot of brothers today are really just not secure with themselves. So when they see like another black man who is just like secure with himself and not really afraid of expressing himself in a different manner, it kind of offends them alone. A lot of guys, I see carry a lot of jealousy and envy because they're afraid that they try to express themselves in that same kind of manner that they know they'll be looked at differently. So to see a black man, a brother like yourself, express yourself the way that you do, that's going to offend a lot of other brothers. And that's the reason why they'll make these videos, trying to just look for something to just try to bring you down so that they can feel secure about themselves. But in reality, it's like, why are you worried about another man? Hold on, hold on. Dr. Johnson, what do you think about what he's saying? Yeah, I think, like I was saying a little earlier, there's definitely jealousy and what I call make competitive hating. Absolutely, because especially when you come out of a context of being barred from many ways. Now I'm not saying that black men can't be successful. I mean, clearly we're looking at brothers in this channel that are, but there are a series of barriers that others don't necessarily have to deal with. And when you grow up, having seen generations of black men have to navigate those barriers, yeah, sometimes the response is insecurity. But again, there are plenty of brothers that are not and that are responding to it in a very different way. And I would say those are the ones you want to associate with. Those are the ones you want to pull into your network and you want to keep it pushing. You know, that's why I look at it. You know, I had somebody talk about, man, he wore jeans with holes in them and this and that. And then you got a man person. And instead of making a video about it, I just went and looked up some of the most masculine black icons of the last 20, 30 years and showed them we're in the same jeans. You know, the rock. And what's that do Michael, Michael John White and the other guys, I'm like, yeah, go call them something. Go ahead. I'm going to say I knew you one better if you look at the current tapes or the current videos of Mike Tyson training, the brothers are laughing because he's got the weirdest looking tight shorts on. You can imagine that don't look masculine. We're going to tell Mike, we're going to tell Mike anything about them shorts. Exactly. And the thing is, I'm like, you know, I think there's something to be said for the young brother said, but I like your point of view. Man, for everyone that says this, there's two or three or five or 10 more folks that says something different. Keep it moving. You can't please everybody. But if you're secure with yourself, and that's that's the thing. I'm secure with me, you know, I know that my way of doing things or is not everybody's way of doing things. But Dr. Johnson, come on. We remember Clyde Frazier when the NBA was the fashion templates. Dr. J and all these dudes in the 70s. Go back and go Google's 1970s basketball stars and fashion. Come on, man. Come on. I'm about to take you back to take. Let's talk. Let's take about a white man. Not even black man. Let's go to New York Jets, Broadway Joe, Joe Namath, white man walking out with a fur coat on a pantyhose. I'm like, now I never heard no black man put on a pantyhose. That's that's come on now. But the fact that what the point is, man, it's like we already got enough challenges and stuff to deal with. We don't need to create them because one of the things that brothers have always had as a natural leg up is our is our sense of style, our smooth, our cool, our vibe. And we don't want to take that away from brothers. You want to expand up as the plate. So let me get on over to Steve. Steve, how are you, man? How you doing, Mr. Kevin? Thank you for having me on the night. Good. What you got for me or Dr. Johnson? Well, I thought of when I was listening to you gentlemen earlier, it really reminded me of kind of like a microcosm of Aaron McGruder and the boondocks with those two characters. Yeah. When he went to Raleigh and, you know, he would be doing something and it would be a little non-traditional and Raleigh would always be, oh, that's gay. Right, right, right, right. Nicky, you gay. Nicky, you gay. Nicky, you gay. Nicky, you gay. Right, so. And boondocks, I love the boondock shit. But Steve, on the boondocks, who was the one character that got the most shit? Tom. Tom. Right. And Tom, here with now, they did make him married to a white woman. Right. But Tom was happy, go lucky in life and carrying on until Usher came around. But I think that show was great because. Woody Warrior, you know. Yes, man. I think the show was great because he challenged Black culture unapologetically. So go ahead. Well, and also, I want to talk to the doctor real quick. When we talk about the rise of hypergamy, also, isn't it a confusion of the blending of the gender roles and women are quick to assign something that they don't understand as gay? And I used to live in Atlanta as well, Kevin. I worked at Lenox Mall for a while. So, you know, when we talk about the gender blending of the man purses, the makeup, you know, kind of like even when we talk about Broadway Joe, like the competition for who's the prettiest. And I think that is kind of like, what's at the crux of it is they desire the attention of the Broadway Joe or the pretty guy, but they can't deal with the competition. Like even if we talk about the stockings, like if you look at the NBA, like everybody wears tights now, but, you know, in the 80s, that would have been taboo. So is it more or less that the women can't really understand men more so? And that is what helps them, well, not actually helps them, but makes them just automatically label men as gay. Like if we look even at with the situation with Andrew Gilliam, like they're so scared that they're going to end up in one of these situations, they just quick anything they don't understand, they just call the game. Dr. Johnson, what do you got? I don't know if you see it. Dr. Johnson is muted. Okay. I'll meet yourself, Dr. Johnson. Did you hear? Okay. Yeah, thank you. I did. No, I think one of the things that's changed has been, you know, really the advancing of a certain brand of feminism. And it's been so deeply embedded after a few generations of it. But I think where we've gotten to in our community is a point where black men, for the most part, unless their high value are perceived as, you know, concubines and serfs. I mean, in other words, your job is to provide sexual service. Your job is to provide sperm when she may want to reproduce. And you need to, you know, provide, protect and all of that while at the same time servicing her. See, so you are, I talked about this, I reviewed the film Antebellum the other night on my show. And I talked about this, you see this in that film even, there's this idea now that black men are basically wives, you know, and some facts and they are the husbands. And I've had these experiences where I've run into women even in my own life where I've seen that. And it's a social expectation. So the traditional social expectation is that as a man, you lead, provide and protect. But now the social expectation is that you lead, provide and protect while also servicing her needs and being at her behest. And that's a whole new dynamic going on that none of us are really used to. And here's why I'm also put some, put some fire on guys like myself. Being raised in a single mother household. I grew up on baby face and be a good man and all that blue pill stuff, right? And all that, and all the success I had in corporate America or my academic life, it, I couldn't have the same success in my romantic life because not being the man I needed to be allowed me to pick poorly and not be able to maintain relationships the way it needed to be. And see, this is where the failure part comes in. So it's like black men like myself, when you reach the point, you still need to have your mask and frame, your, your standards, your certain and so forth. You need to lead. And, and that's more than just leading your woman. You also cannot demule or cover away from leadership in your neighborhood, your community, your church, whatever. And this is the problem. Brothers in my, in this area took the eye off the ball and became too focused on a small area and allowed masculinity to be warped on our watch. And we got, and I own that. I own my part in that because that's why you never hear me talking bad about my exes. Never hear me. I say, you know what? Good, better and different. I, I shouldn't have done this or that. Now I will say this, the beautiful thing about being a man is you can still decide to get this stuff pointed on the right track and move it down the path of where it should be. That's why I think this whole high value and all those other things is being mis, mischaracterized. It's just saying, all right, when you learn how to get your man shit together, become the man you need to be and have the options and opportunities that you want. And then let that be the standard for you. So thank you for the question because we were able to attack it on two things. See, the thing is, the whole pretty being raised by mama, it's easy for men to see women as your partners and not your, your help meets. And we have allowed ourselves to be put into a position of that, that served to that, that thing Dr. Johnson was talking about. And guess what? You're going to have to fight and take it back. They're not going to give it up as power. Right. You're going to have to claw it back from women. But one thing that I will say, showing your work, work shuts a whole lot of women up. Work will shut shit up. Appreciate the call. Let me get to somebody else in here that was Steve. I got Antoine. Antoine, can you unmute yourself? Brother Ant. Hello? Brother Antoine. Hello? Yes. Go ahead, Antoine. Hello, Kevin. How are you? I'm good, bro. What you got for us? You know, I was raised in Montreal, Canada. My father, when I was raised, made it clear. He said to us, he says, you're not going to be like me. You're not going to act like me. You're going to be proper. You're going to wear your hat forward. You're actually going to pull up your pants and you're going to conduct yourself properly. And you're going to learn, because my father is from Guadalupe. My mom is from Venezuela, but he made sure we learned French because he thought that would be a proper way to raise us. He thought that that would be instilled and you would learn the language. But when I moved to the United States, and I moved here because of work, I just find that compared to the Canadians and the Montreales, the Americans are so aggressive as far as the African-American community. I find that being, I mean, I only got the attitude and all that because I'm a light-skinned brother. Right. But I find more of the women were calling me, oh, you speak, you must be gay because I spoke properly. At the beginning, I had a French accent. I kind of lost it a bit. Oh, yeah, I know that French shit got, oh, yeah, bro, you were catching all kinds of gay slurs. So I was getting all of that. And I was like, but the women compared to Montreal are so aggressive here with that. It's like they think it's an insult. And in Montreal and in Canada, the gays aren't looked, I mean, that whole in the closet, it's not really scrutinized like it is here and with the job and everything. But I find here, they try to use that as an insult and it really isn't. Well, and this is where Dr. Johnson, what do you have to say to that? Well, I think, you know, once you add in international factors, different cultural practices, more race, it could be even as subtle as how you stand, how you hold, you know, how you speak, all of those things that don't resonate for people who are used to a more regional type of masculinity. You're definitely going to get hazed in a particular kind of way. So, you know, so that I would have been surprised if you said it didn't happen. Yeah, exactly. But let me say, let me say this as well, you know, because you have to understand what it, in my opinion, if you're coming in from Canada and Montreal, as French is a Montreal, Quebec, which one do they speak French? It is Montreal, Quebec, actually, Quebec City. So the closest thing the black women would have to, a brother like you, would be a guy like me in white collar corporate America. And what I just said is the women may be aggressive, but it's also a combination of men in our position need to stand forward. So we don't, so speaking French, should not be a deterrent if we're standing forward. See, I don't blame black women for all of the stuff. I understand that that brothers in a certain position, if you're in a, you know, in a suit doing this kind of stuff, you can, we understand our culture and it is on us to actually turn back another way and say, this is also black men. So not that this is gay. You know, because we're not going to do that. But do you think, but do you think, do you think that, and I'm asking, I should ask you, I would like to ask the doctor this. Do you think that because the way they are raised and being maybe not, maybe not have all the opportunities that most have or some have, do you think that because they see something that is not of their level and above is that why they right off the bat, get angry with it, that they can't understand it, they can't comprehend it because we're not speaking on their lingo. You mean the women? Right. And the men, some of them, I mean, I've gotten it from the men, too, don't get me wrong. All right. The, you know, the men, some of the men, you know, obviously I stand my ground. Well, let, let Dr. Johnson answer it. Let Dr. Johnson. Yeah. Yeah, because I think, you know, it doesn't even have to be above and beyond them. It's just different from what they're familiar with and anything that's different, you know, it doesn't resonate usually, you know, you're going to get some ribbing, you're going to get some pushback because you're not immediately accepted. But, you know, I think what Kev said a moment ago about, you know, walking forward is, is so key to this. You know, it, there was, I'll give you an example. There was a period of time when my, when I was born, my father was a Muslim. So I was, he was a Black Panther and he was a Muslim. And then at a certain age, he converted to Christianity and he started taking me to church. And I started finding myself around men who carried themselves differently than what I was used to. And my first impression was, you know, even as a kid, I thought it was somewhat feminine. But when I got to know those men who are heads of household, who are, who are sending kids to school, who are disciplinarians in their home, their unbowed stature commanded respect. And I, after a period of time, I no longer saw them as feminine. I saw them as men just along a different strata, just along a different, you know, just something I wasn't familiar with, but they, they commanded respect over time because of how they handled their business. So I would just say, you know, when you are different, well, especially if you come from a different cultural framework, that, that statement that Kev made a moment ago about, you know, leaning forward, you know, walking forward is so key. Be unapologetic. Yep. About how you carry yourself and you'll, you'll notice people will begin to bend toward youth. See, this is where I put the responsibility on men, Black men. Look, we have been derelicting some of our responsibilities too. And it is on us to set the frame. I have people on different sides of YouTube in fashion and fragrance and why do you talk about, why do you talk about race? Why do you talk about race? You could have a million subscribers if you didn't talk about race. If you didn't do this, you didn't do that. And I'm like, well, your call and my call are two different things. I'm having colleagues who are image consultants. I'm like, because I care about what happens with Black men, with men in general, Black men in particular, because I'm a Black man. And you're a white man and you care about your own race. You're a white person. You care about your people. So my people may not necessarily see men like myself. And if I don't do it, who else will? And we're always looking for somebody else to do the job. See, expanding the definition of what it means to be a Black man is the best thing we can do for Black men and for the culture. But that's, so the response, I don't look at the women's response. Human beings respond to archetypes. And it's on, it's our job as Black men who fit that category to lean forward and say, no, no, no, sis, I'm a Black man too. And you may have to do hard to work. Dr. Johnson, you've heard me talk about the Black belts and all those other things. You know what happens when my best friend from high, from childhood, he never really came to my classes and stuff. The first time he ever saw me fighting was at the Big D Conference. And he was there with my mom and my girlfriend and I'm fighting full contact. And this is my, this is my dude, my boy. And he saw me knock two dudes out. Our relationship changed from that point on. He's like, he's like, man, I knew that you did something, but I didn't know you were like, like this. He's like, shit, we don't need to carry no guns. I'm like, hey, man, but it was, but but it was, that's a different way of being people. Look at you differently. So it's, that's what we have to do is men lead and we can demure from leading. Go ahead. And you know, it's so powerful when you're, when you're unapologetically doing what you're doing. I finished my undergrad degree in four years, but then I finished my masters in a year and I ended up becoming a professor at the same university I went to school at. So some of my boys were students in my class. So I was a 21 year old professor teaching some of my boys who were still in school. And one of the things I noticed was very similar to the story you just told, Kev. They, they, once they saw me in my, in my zone, the relationship changed. You know what I mean? Because they, because of just like what you did, I demonstrated a mastery in what it is I was, I was committed to. And I think that's what changes how people deal with you. Now some people are going to hate. Some people are going to be jealous and some people are going to slander you and you just got to keep it pushing. But the people that are worse keeping around are the people that respect the grind. They respect your mastery. And those are the people you need to deal with. And see, this is why I have so much respect. Thank you, Carla. This is why I have so much respect for my blue color, my blue color brothers and my military guys. Because my family is one size navy, one size army. My entire family's bull collar. People often see me and they put me in the category of white collar, front guy, pretty boy. You don't want to get your hands there. And I'm like, no, no, you got me fucked up. I will, I will, I'll go to pick a part. I've hung a door on a 1982 Trans Am by myself. I routinely get my hands dirty. But then, you know, I don't wear that on my sleeve because that's just the part of the men that the men I was around. And mastery and being a full man. When I started doing these MITs, men in training, the goal was to basically take brothers in and over the period of two or three days put them in the boardroom, put them in a house to learn some basic home maintenance, to put them under a car to learn some basic car mechanics and put them in a social space. And all places where they could demonstrate a level of mastery. I felt good two or three days ago when I walked out in the parking lot in one of the sales associates I saw had a hood up. And it was the parking lot was closed. And I went over there and got a car going and she's like confused. I was like, yeah, I'll let the time forward suit. And I'm like, well, that's what a fucking man is. I'm like, don't think, because I walk around wearing fragrance that you call it perfume. I'm a bitch. I'm a man. God damn it. Right. Just a man in the suit. Right. Right. So I'm going to get to another color. I'm trying to get to everybody in the in the list. We're going to get to to Ben next. Ben, go ahead and unmute yourself. What do you got, Ben? Ben, you muted yourself. Ben, unmute yourself. All right. Hello. Go ahead. What do you got for us? No, no, sorry about that. So I hear a lot of sentiment about being a person. So with that being said, both of you gentlemen can speak on this. And I want to bring it back to the most simple terms possible. And if we're actually able to actually look at nature, if you look at a male peacock versus a female peacock, what exactly do you see? He has the plumage. The males are more decorative. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if you look at a male duck versus a female duck, what do you see? Think of the same thing. The same thing in general. So what I'm trying to say is like, okay, like for for males as a whole to think like, it's just like frivolous to like not be well-groomed and like not to have this particular image. It's like, it's silly to me. It behooves me and it baffles me because like, if you're able to actually just like, look at the things around you and look at like, you know, some of like things in nature. Carla, how old are you? How old am I? Oh, I'm 36. Okay. So one thing that maybe you're in the 80s, something happened where black men have never really had to control the apparatus of media to control our image. And in the 80s, that's when Aldebarge and this whole light skin, softer kind of thing came around. And then in the late 80s, early 90s was a direct response to it. The Wesley Snipes, dark skin, my Joe brother. So, you know, we never really controlled our own image. And this is why black male media run by black men is so necessary. We need to control our image and put forward the images that we want the world to see. Not cops, not mass media, but let me say this. It is black men's responsibility to create it, fund it and support it. Yes. We are responsible because again, I say at the beginning, show me a man that doesn't give a damn about his own image. And I'll tell you a man who has no problem destroying yours. I agree 100%. All right. Thank you, Carla. I'm going to go ahead and get to the next person. We got Karen on here. I don't know who Karen is. Lionel, go ahead, Lionel. Lionel, unmute yourself. What's going on, Lionel? I can't hear you. He muted himself again. Lionel, unmute. Hello. Yeah, hello. Yes. What do you got for us? Hello, how are you doing today? Kevin, how are you doing? Dr. Tiazon Johnson, how are you all doing? Is this brother Lionel up in Chicago? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Hey, brother, what's going on? None much. None much. I want to say congratulations on the 100k plus. Thank you, man. This has been a long road for you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What you got? I appreciate the topic. I was listening in from the sidelines. And I agree with 100% what you were all saying. Even me growing up in Chicago, just you were, you were, I can honestly say you were looked at as not as tough, not as manly, not as not as sought after because you were a good grade. So in high school, I ranked number 26 out of 543 people. And I, and I, I still got my work hard. I barely graduated high school because I fell into that. Oh, I prefer attention opposed to continuing on my education. And that really hard, that really hampered me. You know, so I agree a lot of, a lot of guys, a lot of black men do choose but that continued education that, that a six education success on the back burner because of the black society issues that, okay, I like these girls that we're around, but they don't like me. How can I change to get them to like me? And unfortunately that change is becoming Oh, I don't care. Man, it's just English. I don't care. I ain't gonna read no book. That type of stuff. So, and that, and that, and I, and you know, I, I was in high school during the kinds of years. So it was just the opposite. And then I went to the best thing in my life was going to a private school run by black people. And I saw black academics, black excellence. But I understand I saw that happen in under five to seven years where it just flipped to where we started not, not valuing that stuff. And that's why I say it's on, on, on black men who think definitely to say, no, no, this is important too. You can be over here or you can be over here. And it's all black excellence. That's why I'm not trying to high value is not to make a division or be divisive between black men. It's, it's actually to, to say the black men are excellent as well too. And when you do the things you need to do, you should be able to be in a position to reap the reap the rewards and share it. So appreciate you calling in Dr. Johnson. I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up. I don't want to hold you all night. And I'm trying to keep these down to two hours. I appreciate you coming in before we go. Would you like to let anybody let the folks know anything? Yeah. I mean, I do a weekly show Wednesday nights at 5 p.m. Pacific called the Onyx report. You can look for me, Dr. T s on Johnson, you know, on YouTube, you know, you can look for my blog. You can look for my website, T s on Johnson.com. I hope to engage some people and I really want to thank you for having me on. And I appreciate it. No problem. I will be in California in three to four weeks. And I'm going to be in Southern California, Northern California may even get over to Seattle. So I don't know exactly the geography of California, but maybe we can connect while I'm out there. I appreciate it. Let me know, brother. For sure. All right. Dr. T s on Johnson, everybody. Look. To the guys who are making all the majority of videos. Okay, you've had your fun. Thank you. Let's move on. Let's move on to the business of improving outcomes for me. There's good fun and all sort of kind of stuff. But look, you're plenty. You talk about a man's business and you're basically spreading rumors and lies. I'm none of the things you're talking about. I'm not gay. I've never been gay. And just because you don't like how I dress, how I speak, what I do, just say you don't like it. It's not for you. But can you knock off the inferences that I'm a homosexual and I like to have sex with men? I mean, do you really need to go that far? I mean, seriously, is that I mean, I've asked some people that before, are you trying to say that I actually have sex with men? Well, well, and when I've asked them on YouTube, well, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you kind of look like no, no, no, no. Well, if that's so, no. And if going forward, if you are saying these things, look, man, you're going to have to prove that. So you need to prove you need to show some receipts. If you're going to go out and say that he secretly downloaded that shit, don't work. You have to show some receipts, show some pictures of me with a boyfriend or a man somewhere hooked up and cuddled up, kissing or whatever. And I'll pay you for that. If you can't show receipts, you're just lying. And you need to be looked at as a liar with no credibility. Young men, young black men, excellence is nothing to be shyed away from. Use your melanin and your deep voice and your natural sense of innate style and everything to your fucking advantage. If you're good in school, become great in school, whatever you are, master something. And when you walk into the room, I hope you take all the oxygen out of that mother. I hope you walk in and make it hard on your competition. I hope you walk in and the DJ says, and the women are like, and the guys are like, that's your legacy. That is what you should go to be. All the options and opportunities if you want. I don't care if you want to live a simpler, more minimalistic life. I don't care if you want to live the life of a colossus. It's what do you want to live the life of? Your choice, your destination, your destiny, you choose. You may have been born into this circumstance, born into that circumstance. You may have had run-ins with law. You may have failed. Tomorrow, we're going to tomorrow, you're going to get life from your Godfather because tomorrow we're going to talk about from failure. We're going to talk about from failure to the top. This whole high value thing is a choice. You can be first generation to be unlike any other generation in history. You could start right here and end over here. That's not just for Tyler Perry and athletes, it's for you too. You have to decide what it is you want to do and what you're willing to do to get it. That's what it comes right down to. But expand the definition of what it means to be a successful brother. Do not let somebody tell you whether you ain't a successful brother if you do this or do that. If you don't like the constraints, put it in the definition. But you got to do the work. You can say, well, man, most of the successful high earners, high value guys don't wear suits because they own their own businesses. This is not an either or it's not competition. It's in black men. We must have black male media run by black men for black men supported financially by black men up front. Then you got to allow the black men to do that to fail or make mistakes. We have to allow each other grace. There's a difference between scamming somebody and bad business or needs improvement. A new business is going to make mistakes. Hell, you are new to a position. You're going to have to make some mistakes. Well, fuck it, we'll get it. I ain't going to do no business. I'll come back when it gets that I worked out. No, no, no, no, every other group sells to its group and makes money off its group. Black men got to get comfortable with the fact that yes, I'm supposed to get wealthy off of working with you. You got damn right. David Carroll talked about the hot dog example. You should be able to go to your community, sell your product service, market your business and get rich. It's not hustling anybody. It's not taking advantage of anybody. It's called commerce. And sadly, we got a $1.1 trillion spending power and we spend it making other people rich. Our neighborhoods have other people's businesses in them. You can have a guy from the Middle East, a guy from south of the border, a guy from Asia, dropping businesses left to right in black neighborhoods or communities, making money, putting their kids to college, putting money in their stock accounts. And we're worried about who's getting a donation, who's wearing a suit or who's wearing a man purse. That's stupid. It's stupid. It's childish, it's immature. Young black men are watching, young black women are watching. What are we doing, black men? What are we doing? People are watching us. When you're sitting here talking about another man slandering him for no reason to do what? Let's just say I was. Okay, safe for the sake of argument. Let's just say he is. I come out of the closet and I'm androgillium. Then what? Doesn't make anything I said not valid? Then what? Oh, you've been divorced twice. Does it make anything I say less valid? We have to seek to make people invalid or take away their legitimacy. That's bull. That's that Jesus complex stuff. And brothers, we may not like how our culture is. We may not like where it is, but I'm sorry. If you want, especially in spaces, leadership falls on you. Leadership falls to the head. The ability to work with others, especially ones that look like you and work like me, is something that we still need to master. It's the one thing that I think when it starts to work and you start to see a tension between brothers, working with brothers, coming together for the task they come together for. You don't have to like me. I work with a lot of people I don't like. I work with a lot of people I don't agree with about a lot of stuff, but it's called business. I don't have to agree with you about everything. I got to agree with you on the bottom line, the business of it. And make no mistake, blackmail image is business. Your image is not the laws on the books as much. It's not the we need to get more politicians. We need to get better application of the laws that exist. You get pulled over by a highway patrol, and this person gets pulled over by a highway patrol. You need the officer that pulls you over to see you is valuable. To see you and say, if I do something to this person, that's going to be hell to pay like that, not that they can kick your door in and shoot you or shoot you through the door or whatever. And oh, well, you know, but I don't want to get too deep into that one. Becoming the best version of yourself is your responsibility, not your mamas, not your daddies. Your parents were supposed to get you to 18. After 18 is your responsibility, my responsibility. If you are trying to become the best version of yourself, whether you're not you trying to get to high value, or whether or not you're just trying to get to wherever, wherever you comfortable, wherever you want to hang your hat is your responsibility to get there. And then you must seek after the people who can help you get there, help people along the way, and then give it back. And then you should get some, you should get value for it. And there's the funny thing, the funny thing that happens when men start to work, women start to get real quiet. And then cooperation and things like that tend to increase. And black women, I need you to remember something. Dr. Johnson said, he used to have Becky coming to his class. Now he has Marisol coming to his class. Marisol's coming to the class. So say like, well, if you don't want them, I'll take him, I like him. Yeah, brothers, make no mistake, man. The world watches brothers, black men, and how we move, how we do. Black male media, black business, the rising of a black business class, productivity, competitiveness, black industry. I think that's the call for the 21st century. Social media, smartphones, connectedness, have reduced the barrier to entry. And you can have a black business class rise in one generation. We have to improve your image. They have to improve how we work together. And we have to stop all the back and forth unnecessary beef and bickering, conflicting stuff that doesn't need to be. And if you can't do it, can you just stay out of the way? If you just say, I don't care, can you just stay out of the way? And let the people who do want to do it do their thing. Here's the thing. Leave me alone. I'll leave you alone. You don't have to like me. I don't have to like you. You don't have to like my message. That's fine. YouTube is a big place. Big place, lots of things to do. Find your niche. There's riches and niches. I found mine. I found the things that I'm doing and I'm not going to stop. So thank you guys to everybody that tuned in. If you're on Patreon, I dropped the Patreon video last night. Another video will be dropping in tonight. Thank you guys so much for watching the program, supporting the program, supporting the channel. I appreciate it. And we're going to get up out of here, people. Because this has been a hell of a show. Dr. T. S. Johnson, I've been trying to get him on for a minute. We've always had this or that going on, but the timing is right. The timing is right because this needed to be discussed. As usual, until the next time, peace, we are gone. Oh, I forgot something. Hold on. I am the king. Go watch my video. Upload them. Congratulations. I love that song, man. Just uploaded one of the people on the channel, supported the platform. I go check out the video, man. It's my video edit, but the song is dope. Yes, I heard you. The playlist is coming. I'm going to try to have it out by this weekend so you can sit back and get you some music to groove to. Back to the show.